Discussion: Worst Move Of The Offseason

We've already talked about the best move of the offseason this evening, so now let's turn the page and discuss the worst move of the winter. Here are some candidates…

  • Dodgers sign Jamey Carroll to a two-year, $3.85MM contract.
  • Mets sign Alex Cora to a one-year, $2MM contract.
  • Adam LaRoche declines a two-year, $17MM offer from the Giants. 
  • Astros sign Brandon Lyon to a three-year, $15MM contract.
  • Giants re-sign Bengie Molina to a one-year, $4.5MM contract.

There are plenty of more bad moves out there, but which one is the biggest head scratcher? 


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220 Comments on "Discussion: Worst Move Of The Offseason"


diehardmets
5 years 6 months ago

Jason Kendall

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

I’m going to take Brandon Lyon on this one.

Alldaybaseball
5 years 6 months ago

Musch worse than Molina.

5 years 6 months ago

Worst move of the offseason, hands down: ASTROS EXTENSION OF ED WADE!!

mattinglyfan
5 years 6 months ago

Worst Move of the Offseason: Johnny Damon turning down the 2/14 offer from the Yankees.

NL_East_Rivalry
5 years 6 months ago

Not the worst when he got a 1 year deal for over 7 mil. If he wants a bigger salary next year he has to go with a 1-year deal. Comerica Park isn’t where to try-out though. Maybe he just wants to help another team win for once.

strikethree
5 years 6 months ago

Or the Yankees for even going that high. They should have offered him arbitration. With his ego, he would have probably declined it.

5 years 6 months ago

Kendall and I-Rod would have to share any such honor.

brovos
5 years 6 months ago

Adam LaRoache……what a tool !

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

Yeah, he set himself up to be back on the market alongside Derrek Lee, Carlos Peña, Lance Berkman, and Paul Konerko (not to mention Adamn Dunn). That won’t help his ca$e.

5 years 6 months ago

thats not true at all, he avoided next offseasons market

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

What I remember is him signing for 1 yr and a mutual option – far from a guaranteed 2nd year – hence the comment.

alxn
5 years 6 months ago

He would’ve avoided next year’s market if he took the Giants’s offer too. As it is, he might not avoid next year’s market and is going to get payed way less.

kishi
5 years 6 months ago

Yeah, but he would have been playing in San Francisco. Who wants that?

LaRoche obviously made his decisions for reasons other than money.

jdub220
5 years 6 months ago

Exactly. Oh, what the dry desert air can do…
For example, it made Eric Byrnes 30MM richer.

jdub220
5 years 6 months ago

Exactly. Oh, what the dry desert air can do…
For example, it made Eric Byrnes 30MM richer.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

San Francisco is one of the worlds great cities. With his contract the giants were going to pay him he could have afforded Bay Area real estate. Though on vacation once in san Fransisco as beautiful as the city was I went to candlestick park, it was like getting out of my car an walking into a freezing hell. The tempature must have dropped 40 degrees and the wind cut thru you to the point no matter what you did or what you wore it was cold.Willie Mays, McCovey, marichal they all deserved better.

michael44456
5 years 5 months ago

and that is why Candlestick is no longer the Giants ballpark. AT&T is one of the best stadiums in the bigs, and San Francisco is inarguably one of the best major league cities to live in

markjsunz
5 years 5 months ago

San Fransisco is as beautiful as any of the great cities in europe, and I like it better then Manhattan.

Ferrariman
5 years 6 months ago

Jason marquis for 15million has to be up their but brandon Lyon for 3/15 is by far the worst.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
5 years 6 months ago

1) Mets fail to actually improve the team and 2) Tigers replace Granderson and E. Jackson with Damon, A. Jackson, and Scherzer

jaydh
5 years 6 months ago

1) fail

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

Granderson and E. Jackson were on the decline while picking up Damon gives the Tigers a steady bat at the top of the lineup and A. Jackson and Scherzer are up-and-coming stars. So I have to disagree with you on your number 2 but you number 1 is absolutly correct

5 years 6 months ago

Granderson posted a BABIP of .275 last year, WAY under his career average (.320). I’d be surprised if he didn’t at least get back to his 2008 numbers. His walk and strikeout numbers weren’t much different from his career averages, and while he won’t get 25 triples again, his power is still there. He’s still a very good player and will be significantly better than Damon (who is far more likely to be declining) and Jackson (who is still a question mark and might be no more than a soft hitting/solid fielding CF).

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I hate when people throw in some stupid stat like BABIP or WAR or VORP. Thats when people look way to far into things and Jackson is their top prospect so I think he is anything but a question mark.

levendis
5 years 6 months ago

Austin Jackson wasnt our best prospect, that was Jesus Montero. Jackson isnt that good, he barely hit .300, has a bad OBP, Ks alot, and only hit 4 hrs. I think the fact he was a Yankee he was overvalued.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I’m not talking about the Yankees. I’m talking about the Tigers

Zack23
5 years 6 months ago

I hate when people criticize stats they dont understand.

But yay lets focus on AVG, W/L, etc.

revpauld
5 years 6 months ago

I understand WAR, BABIP, FIP, VORP, etc. I just happen to think they’re primarily stats for fantasy owners that don’t mean a whole lot in real, live baseball.

mojowo11
5 years 5 months ago

Well, I guess that just makes you wrong. How many fantasy baseball leagues do you know that use WAR?

5 years 5 months ago

To quote Edwin Starr, “WAR, what is good for?”

revpauld
5 years 5 months ago

I know no leagues that use WAR. However, I know an awful lot of fantasy owners that use WAR, VORP, FIP, etc. etc. to evaluate players and slot them in their draft. In fact, as far as I can tell, that is their main purpose–well, that and for writers and analysts to feel important by throwing them around in any discussion, and agents to use to try to justify their exorbitant salary demands.

strikethree
5 years 5 months ago

Yet we’re supposed to just go with stats like AVG and wins?!

Baseball is all about stats. From the simplest like batting average to the more complex like WAR. “Real, live” talent is reflected in those stats. A lot of things in the “real world” has some sort of a fundamental correlation.

The sad part is the total denial of these stats because they don’t seem to fit the “ideal” perception of a sport. For instance, there’s more to pitching than just throwing a ball as fast as possible. Clearly, the guys who pitch well use movement, deception, location and speed. However, luck plays a large part as well. A lot of these newer stats try to eliminate the “luck” factor that plays a huge part in simpler stats like wins and average.

revpauld
5 years 5 months ago

I’m not in total denial of these advanced metrics stats. They can play a role in evaluating player’s performances. So can old, tired stats like BA, ERA, and yes, W/L %. And since luck is a part of baseball, as it is in any other sport, why try to eliminate it? WAR is one of those stats that I think has limited application, because what it purports to measure is inherently subject to many other factors.

It purports to measure the added value in wins to a team by replacing one player with another. Yet adding that player to any given team, the number of wins the team would actually record would still depend on the performance of everybody else around that one player, and would still be affected by just plain, old luck–good or bad. So to me, WAR has a limited usefulness, like a number of these other stats. That doesn’t mean I would throw them all out. UZR and UZR-150, for instance, are helpful in comparing fielders and yield information that straight fielding % doesn’t. Neither would I throw out actual W/L and BA. They still count for something in the real world.

mojowo11
5 years 5 months ago

You try to eliminate luck because you’re seeking to learn something about the actual talent level of the player. Saber stats don’t eliminate luck because they don’t like it or they don’t think it exists, it’s just that if you include a player’s luck in how you view them, you’re not getting an accurate representation of their ability. This is particularly important if you hope to use the information to make predictions about the player going forward.

As for your analysis of WAR — you clearly have a skewed understanding of either how it’s used or what it’s supposed to measure (possibly both), because your spiel about it didn’t make a whole lot of sense.

revpauld
5 years 5 months ago

I think I understand what WAR is. The concept is supposedly that, if you had this player who has a WAR of 4, let’s say, and you could plug him into your lineup in place of the elusive statistically average player, your team ought to win 4 more games over the course of a season. But since there is no statistically average player, it’s used primarily as a way of comparing one player to another–just the way BA, HR, RBI, and W/L are used to compare one player to another. So theoretically, if you replace a player with a WAR of 1 with a player with a WAR of 4, your team ought to win 3 more games. But in fact, even if you could trade your player with a WAR of 1 even up for a player with a WAR of 4, the games would still have to be played, and luck would remain just as much a part of the equation as ever, so no one ever really knows how much the team’s outcome would be affected; they just think they do. Plus, since relatively few players are perfectly consistent from year to year, their value can change dramatically from one season to the next. Like I said, I don’t totally discount these stats, I just don’t think they’re as accurate a measure or as important as the weight some people now give them. That’s all.

mojowo11
5 years 5 months ago

You try to eliminate luck because you’re seeking to learn something about the actual talent level of the player. Saber stats don’t eliminate luck because they don’t like it or they don’t think it exists, it’s just that if you include a player’s luck in how you view them, you’re not getting an accurate representation of their ability. This is particularly important if you hope to use the information to make predictions about the player going forward.

As for your analysis of WAR — you clearly have a skewed understanding of either how it’s used or what it’s supposed to measure (possibly both), because your spiel about it didn’t make a whole lot of sense.

strikethree
5 years 6 months ago

“Granderson and E. Jackson were on the decline”

Jackson posted the best year of his career. (He didn’t have a great 2nd half but that hardly counts as a “decline”)

Granderson posted a 3+ WAR year, is young and has a reasonable contract.

“while picking up Damon gives the Tigers a steady bat at the top of the lineup”
You’ve never seen the guy field, have you? Plus, the Tigers could have shaved off at least 3 million from what they offered. The other competition who even considered Damon wanted to offer him deferred money.

“A. Jackson and Scherzer are up-and-coming stars”
Ajax has never had a major league AB; yet, he’s already an “up-and-coming star”? How many times have we’ve seen these prospects fizz out? Let’s see… a speedy OFer who was once considered a five tool player… Carlos Gomez, anyone?

I like Scherzer. I think the Dbacks were wrong in giving him up but I wonder if there are injury concerns and whether he’ll last as a starter.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

Jackson is an up-and-coming star because he is their top prospect. And if you REALLY think about it, Granderson wasn’t THAT good. His defense was becoming suspect and besides hitting 30 HR, which most of them were solo, he couldn’t really do much else. He was horrible in the clutch, struck out way too much, couldn’t hit lefties, didn’t steal many bases, didn’t walk much and couldn’t hit for any average. But for some odd reason he was a fan favorite

Heliosphan
5 years 6 months ago

Couldn’t hit lefties is a huge understand… he had an under .600 OPS against them. Basically, when a lefty was throwing the ball, he turned into Jose Vidro.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I think you are the only person that knows anything rdccdr801. These people just cant admit that Granderson is extremely overrated

strikethree
5 years 5 months ago

Or perhaps you’re just too stubborn realize you’re wrong?

Clearly you don’t have an understanding of statistics behind the highly flawed “average”, “strikeouts” (By the way, have you seen Ajax’s minor league totals?) and “clutch” (Which again, has a yearly sample bias) terms.

Career OPS:
Damon – .794
Granderson – .828

Ajax – .766 (Minor leagues, which makes it a whole lot worse)

That’s really the simplest way to put it. I don’t have to bring up Damon’s putrid defensive numbers, do I?

strikethree
5 years 5 months ago

A top prospect is still a prospect — not an “up-and-coming star”. Those two terms are not the same. Again, he hasn’t had even ONE major league AB. For every top prospect that does become a “star” I can list 10 more that didn’t live up to the hype.

“His defense was becoming suspect and besides hitting 30 HR, which most of them were solo, he couldn’t really do much else. He was horrible in the clutch, struck out way too much, couldn’t hit lefties, didn’t steal many bases, didn’t walk much and couldn’t hit for any average.”

Suspect defense?! Now I know you’ve never watched Damon field before.

Granderson’s career UZR/150 is above average; he also posted a positive rating last season.

2009, Granderson hit with a .783 OPS with RISP
2008, he hit .909 with RISP

The “clutch” thing is NONSENSE. Lord knows how many times that was brought up about Arod until he shut everyone up during the postseason.

Yes, he doesn’t hit lefties well. However, he posted a decent season against lefties in 2008. His right handed OPS largely makes up for the left handed OPS.

Yes, he isn’t perfect; but, you’re supposed to compare him to the guy who is replacing him. Ajax minor league OPS is .766.

Not only will Damon’s hitting regress without the short right field porch, his defensive will simply make you shutter.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I have another point for you strikethree. How many pitches have Stephen Strasburg or Aroldis Chapman thrown in the major leagues? But they are still considered up-and-coming stars

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I have another point for you strikethree. How many pitches have Stephen Strasburg or Aroldis Chapman thrown in the major leagues? But they are still considered up-and-coming stars

breakz
5 years 6 months ago

No they’re not–they’re considered “prospects.”

Guys like Ben Zobrist, Jayson Werth etc. are “up-and-coming stars.”

breakz
5 years 6 months ago

No they’re not–they’re considered “prospects.”

Guys like Ben Zobrist, Jayson Werth etc. are “up-and-coming stars.”

strikethree
5 years 5 months ago

First of all… Ajax is no where near projected in the same light.

Second, only Strasburg is hyped to be as close to a sure thing as possible. Even so, he is still a prospect.

They are all prospects. However, not all prospects are projected to put up the same level of talent.

theendz
5 years 6 months ago

Granderson ?????? on the decline you are out of your mind. Now Johnny Damon he is on the decline

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

Whoever doesn’t admit that Granderson is on the decline is obviously nieve. If you REALLY think about it, he isn’t that good. His defense was becoming suspect and besides hitting 30 HR, which most of them were solo, he couldn’t really do much else. He was horrible in the clutch, struck out way too much, couldn’t hit lefties, didn’t steal many bases, didn’t walk much and couldn’t hit for any average

Macfan1
5 years 6 months ago

Wow dude did Granderson do something to you or are you just downplaying him because the Tigers traded him away. Look at Granderson’s career

2006 Home – .249 AVG, .326 OBP, .389 SLG, .715 OPS, 7 HR, 33 RBI
2006 Away – .271 AVG, .343 OBP, .485 SLG, .828 OPS, 12 HR, 35 RBI

2007 Home – .286 AVG, .351 OBP, .512 SLG, .863 OPS, 10 HR, 36 RBI
2007 Away – .318 AVG, .370 OBP, .592 SLG, .962 OPS, 13 HR, 38 RBI

2008 Home – .277 AVG, .361 OBP, .493 SLG, .854 OPS, 11 HR, 35 RBI
2008 Away – .283 AVG, .368 OBP, .495 SLG, .863 OPS, 11 HR, 31 RBI

2009 Home – .230 AVG, .307 OBP, .388 SLG, .695 OPS, 10 HR, 34 RBI
2009 Away – .267 AVG, .345 OBP, .516 SLG, .861 OPS, 20 HR, 37 RBI

Career

Home – .260 AVG, .336 OBP, .445 SLG, .781 OPS, 38 HR, 138 RBI

Away – .284 AVG, 356 OBP, .522 SLG, 878 OPS, 56 HR, 141 RBI

Whatever was the issue in Comerica and his hitting style, the guy is a way, way better player outside of Comerica Park and that cannot even be argued as above shows. He gains in his career away from Comerica

+24 points on his AVG
+20 points on his OBP
+77 points on his SLG
+97 points on his OPS

He is 29 years of age and you claim he is on the decline, you talk about his solo HR’s but he was a leadoff hitter in Detroit, a role that he may never have been suited for because of his strikeouts, in New York he will be in the middle of the batting order.

As someone else mentioned above his batting average on balls in play was well below his career norms, .275 last season vs .320 for his career, and below the league average of .299, he will bounce back big time next season as that goes back to normal for him.

You want to talk about bad defense, look at Johnny Damon playing the outfield in Comerica, you haven’t seen anything yet with all the 1st to 3rd and Home that will be taking place on balls hit out there to him this season.

As a left fielder in Yankee Stadium Damon was dreadful on defense

Damon’s Arm -4.2 runs below average vs -0.6 runs below average for Granderson

Damon’s Range -3.7 runs below average vs 1.4 runs above average for Granderson

Damon’s UZR -9.2 runs below average vs 1.6 runs above average for Granderson

Those numbers were accumulated in

1117 innings for Damon last season
1384 innings for Granderson last season

You haven’t seen really bad defense yet, but will this year with a 36 year old Damon, enjoy it.

All I can say is thanks Detroit for Curtis Granderson, we’ll take him in New York at 29 years of age, coming off a down season, coming to a hitters park and a very good lineup.

Granderson will bounce back big time and could easily put up lines of

.265 – .270 AVG, 30+ HR, 85-90+ RBI, 160+ H, 32+ 2B, 18+ SB in the middle of the majors best offence

Considering his career numbers away from Comerica Park as a player.

Macfan1
5 years 6 months ago

Wow dude did Granderson do something to you or are you just downplaying him because the Tigers traded him away. Look at Granderson’s career

2006 Home – .249 AVG, .326 OBP, .389 SLG, .715 OPS, 7 HR, 33 RBI
2006 Away – .271 AVG, .343 OBP, .485 SLG, .828 OPS, 12 HR, 35 RBI

2007 Home – .286 AVG, .351 OBP, .512 SLG, .863 OPS, 10 HR, 36 RBI
2007 Away – .318 AVG, .370 OBP, .592 SLG, .962 OPS, 13 HR, 38 RBI

2008 Home – .277 AVG, .361 OBP, .493 SLG, .854 OPS, 11 HR, 35 RBI
2008 Away – .283 AVG, .368 OBP, .495 SLG, .863 OPS, 11 HR, 31 RBI

2009 Home – .230 AVG, .307 OBP, .388 SLG, .695 OPS, 10 HR, 34 RBI
2009 Away – .267 AVG, .345 OBP, .516 SLG, .861 OPS, 20 HR, 37 RBI

Career

Home – .260 AVG, .336 OBP, .445 SLG, .781 OPS, 38 HR, 138 RBI

Away – .284 AVG, 356 OBP, .522 SLG, 878 OPS, 56 HR, 141 RBI

Whatever was the issue in Comerica and his hitting style, the guy is a way, way better player outside of Comerica Park and that cannot even be argued as above shows. He gains in his career away from Comerica

+24 points on his AVG
+20 points on his OBP
+77 points on his SLG
+97 points on his OPS

He is 29 years of age and you claim he is on the decline, you talk about his solo HR’s but he was a leadoff hitter in Detroit, a role that he may never have been suited for because of his strikeouts, in New York he will be in the middle of the batting order.

As someone else mentioned above his batting average on balls in play was well below his career norms, .275 last season vs .320 for his career, and below the league average of .299, he will bounce back big time next season as that goes back to normal for him.

You want to talk about bad defense, look at Johnny Damon playing the outfield in Comerica, you haven’t seen anything yet with all the 1st to 3rd and Home that will be taking place on balls hit out there to him this season.

As a left fielder in Yankee Stadium Damon was dreadful on defense

Damon’s Arm -4.2 runs below average vs -0.6 runs below average for Granderson

Damon’s Range -3.7 runs below average vs 1.4 runs above average for Granderson

Damon’s UZR -9.2 runs below average vs 1.6 runs above average for Granderson

Those numbers were accumulated in

1117 innings for Damon last season
1384 innings for Granderson last season

You haven’t seen really bad defense yet, but will this year with a 36 year old Damon, enjoy it.

All I can say is thanks Detroit for Curtis Granderson, we’ll take him in New York at 29 years of age, coming off a down season, coming to a hitters park and a very good lineup.

Granderson will bounce back big time and could easily put up lines of

.265 – .270 AVG, 30+ HR, 85-90+ RBI, 160+ H, 32+ 2B, 18+ SB in the middle of the majors best offence

Considering his career numbers away from Comerica Park as a player.

ReverendBlack
5 years 5 months ago

tl;dr

cubbyfan23
5 years 6 months ago

Nieve like Fernando Nieve or do you mean naive?

Advanced metrics and English language = looking too far into things

5 years 5 months ago

You must come from that Dusty Baker school of not wanting to clog up them there bases w/high OBP guys, too.

cubbyfan23
5 years 6 months ago

Nieve like Fernando Nieve or do you mean naive?

Advanced metrics and English language = looking too far into things

Patrick_TO
5 years 6 months ago

How is the fact they were solo homers relevant? He hit lead-off almost the entire year! With the Yankees he’ll be hitting near the middle of one of the greatest OBP teams ever assembled. His RsBI are going way up this season.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

Whoever doesn’t admit that Granderson is on the decline is obviously nieve. If you REALLY think about it, he isn’t that good. His defense was becoming suspect and besides hitting 30 HR, which most of them were solo, he couldn’t really do much else. He was horrible in the clutch, struck out way too much, couldn’t hit lefties, didn’t steal many bases, didn’t walk much and couldn’t hit for any average

Cardsfan387
5 years 6 months ago

Jason Kendall, Ivan Rodriguez and Brandon Lyon were pretty bad deals.

HalfSt
5 years 6 months ago

With Jesus Flores’s return from injury uncertain, and with prospect Derek Norris perhaps 2 years away, Rodriguez’s deal is better than folks immediately think it is. The pitching staff is pretty excited to have him calling games, and the other options at catcher available to the Nats were not great. The Nats had several pitchers turn down better money to avoid the Nats for other teams (Chan Ho Park, Jon Garland, for instance). They had to pay a premium for Rodriguez and Marquis, had to take a chance on C-M Wang when others wouldn’t.

The salaries they paid, though, were bargains compared to recent years, and especially compared to the contracts they lost. The Nats are better off giving $3M to Ivan Rodriguez than $5M to Dmitri Young. They are better off giving $7.5M each year to Jason Marquis than to give $8M to Austin Kearns. They are better of gambling $2M on C-M Wang than throwing away $4M to Daniel Cabrera.

The Nats tried to give Aroldis Chapman $25M, and you all would have said it makes no sense for the Nationals to spend that kind of money. However, none of you seem bothered by the Reds giving Chapman $30M and landing him. The Nats are trying to dig out of the hole to become a better team and a more preferred destination for free agents. Let’s see if their attempts to improve change your opinions at least somewhat by next spring.

JC
5 years 6 months ago

I see a number of bad moves out there this year…as in most offseasons. But the one I keep going back to is LaRoche turning down the offer from the Giants. He shouldn’t be offered more than $4M to play for anyone…and shouldn’t be offered more than a 1yr deal. Hell after Branyans big year he only got a 1yr $2M deal. LaRoche is either getting REALLY bad advise or is just clueless…or both. Still can’t get over this one!

bigbird24
5 years 6 months ago

edit: ..doublepost..

gosensgo101
5 years 6 months ago

Quite obviously its LaRoche. He lost out in over 15 Million Dollars, and won’t be getting anything in spite of that (ie the teams atleast get some production for their gaffes)

5 years 6 months ago

The Molina move was horrible. Not only does he suck, the Giants blocked one of the top prospects in all of baseball.

Anson Ng
5 years 6 months ago

No way! The Molina move shouldn’t even be on this list!

Molina was second on the team in HRs and RBIs last year (as sad as that may be). He’s already familiar with the pitching staff, and they are all comfortable with him. To me his game calling was a big part of the success of the pitching staff had and to bring him back on a one-year deal on their terms as a transition to Posey I thought was an excellent move.

Besides Posey’s bat may be ready, but he still needs some work behind the dish. And the Molina move doesn’t necessarily preclude him from joining the roster sometime mid-season or even out of spring training if he looks good.

BillB325
5 years 6 months ago

Agreed and worst case scenerio is that Huff doesn`t hit so you move Molina to first and bring up Posey.

55saveslives
5 years 6 months ago

I disagree…Posey still needs to learn how to call a game. He will be in Fresno learning from Steve Decker, who IMO is being groomed to be the next manager of the Giants. Plus Molina is coming off a career year in HR’s and luckily WON’T be hitting cleanup.

5 years 6 months ago

He’s carrying a sub-.300 OBP. I don’t care if they guy came for free, bringing him in was a bad move. If they wanted a place-holder at catcher, Zaun could have actually contributed to the offense.

55saveslives
5 years 5 months ago

So the OBP is the only important stat a catcher can bring? How about his knowledge of the pitching staff? How about his ability to mentor Posey? How about his high percentage of caught stealing?

His HR numbers in SF have been the best of his career.

There’s more to baseball than OBP.

Oh and I didn’t even mention the ridiculous contracts that Pudge and other catchers got.

The_Thrill_22
5 years 6 months ago

You think Decker is going to be the next manager? What about Wotus? They almost gave him the job before signing Bochy.

55saveslives
5 years 5 months ago

I don’t think Wotus will get the chance..

The_Thrill_22
5 years 5 months ago

If he doesn’t get it from us he’ll gt it from someone else.

humbb
5 years 6 months ago

I respectfully disagree as well. He is not blocking Posey … Posey played all nine positions in college and will be taking infield at 1B this spring. If he makes the team or is called up later, he will get his AB’s. Molina texted him after the signing and said “I told him I’m not here to take his spot.” Also the Giants pitching staff literally broke out in applause when they learned he had signed. They were thrilled. And the Giants got him for a little over half his projected arb number (plus incentives).

So, my vote for the worst moves: (1) Sheets – huge risk even though I rarely question a one-year deal; (2) the McCourt divorce; and (3) Bernie Madoff.

And thank you Adam.

5 years 6 months ago

Again, sub-.300 OBP.

humbb
5 years 6 months ago

Fair enough. Based on that criterion, I would then propose that the Pudge deal bumps Molina’s as the worst (for catchers, at least).

2009:
Pudge: .249/.280/.384 10HR
Bengie: .265/.285/.442 20HR

But Bengie is being retained to catch his familiar staff – that has to be worth a few extra $$.

jphenix2002
5 years 6 months ago

not to mention Bengie’s contract is one less year

The_Thrill_22
5 years 6 months ago

OBP isn’t the only stat to look at. He is hitting 6th or 7th with 20 HRs how can that be a bad thing? I’d rather have Molina’s RBIs and HRs than rely on Zaun to get on base that low in the order maybe lower and hope for an anemic offense to knock him in. There wasn’t a better offensive catcher available on the market.

Like they said Molina is on a 1 year deal
Had a .442 SLG
The staff loves Molina
and Posey isn’t ready

bigbird24
5 years 6 months ago

If you think signing Molina was a bad move, you should have seen Posey play in the upper minors. He was clueless against good pitching and doesn’t call anywhere near as good of a game as Molina. There are much worse moves than re-signing your second best hitter to a 1-year cheap deal…

5 years 6 months ago

if you sign jamey carroll to anything more than a minor league deal then you know you’ve made without a doubt the worst move of the offseason

vtadave
5 years 6 months ago

Seriously Tony? The guy has a career OBP of .351 and he’s fairly versatile. It’s not like they gave the guy 4/66.

BlessedIAM
5 years 6 months ago

Carroll will get 100 starts, is above average at 2B and 3B, is career .354 hitter, is in the top players every year in pitches per AB, is a great clubhouse guy and multiople teams offered 2 years. Clearly Tony, you don;t have a clue.

BlessedIAM
5 years 6 months ago

Career .354 pinch hitter

redlake
5 years 6 months ago

Try .273.

The main criticism is mis-allocation of limited resources. Also, why didn’t Ned hold off to see how he might have been able to target actual needs? Carrol will probably help the team but maybe that money could have been spent more wisely.He’s a nice guy, versatile etc …..BUT In the big picture of this teams limited resources and needs ,e.g. pitching depth, this was not a good move.

redlake
5 years 6 months ago

Try .273.

The main criticism is mis-allocation of limited resources. Also, why didn’t Ned hold off to see how he might have been able to target actual needs? Carrol will probably help the team but maybe that money could have been spent more wisely.He’s a nice guy, versatile etc …..BUT In the big picture of this teams limited resources and needs ,e.g. pitching depth, this was not a good move.

5 years 6 months ago

carrol hit .277 with 2 homeruns

“oh yeah this guy will make an impact lets sign him to a multimillion dollar deal in the beginning of the offseason!”

shut up the dodgers couldve got felipe lopez for the same price but im not gonna worry this is why the dodgers are gonna finish 3rd place in the NL west

5 years 6 months ago

carrol hit .277 with 2 homeruns

“oh yeah this guy will make an impact lets sign him to a multimillion dollar deal in the beginning of the offseason!”

shut up the dodgers couldve got felipe lopez for the same price but im not gonna worry this is why the dodgers are gonna finish 3rd place in the NL west

5 years 6 months ago

Pudge Rodriguez to the Nationals. Giving up picks and that much money for a guy who can barely hit anymore and is only average defensively at this point in his career… just plain stupid.

5 years 6 months ago

To be fair, they didn’t give up any picks. I’m pretty sure he was a Type B free agent, which means his former team got awarded a pick in the compensatory round, not that the Nats had to surrender a pick. Now that I think about it, I don’t think Pudge was even offered arb.

5 years 6 months ago

Ah, I thought he was a type A. But yes he was definitely offered arbitration and declined. Even if they didn’t give up picks, it was still a huge overpay.

HalfSt
5 years 6 months ago

See my response above on Rodriguez and the Nats’ need to overpay to get anybody as a 103-loss team, especially in the context of the bad contracts they were replacing.

5 years 6 months ago

You guys are aiming WAYYYYY too low.

How about dealing Max Scherzer for E. Jackson and I. Kennedy? Both D’backs acquistions will be HAH-uge busts, and Scherzer has Nolan-esque potential. Enormously bad deal by the poorly run D-backs….

5 years 6 months ago

Nolan-esque? Think you’re overrating him just a little bit?

Ferrariman
5 years 6 months ago

Are we referring to Nolan Ryan? Get real. He was a top pitcher in the game, I doubt scherzer will match that type of success.

DetroitTigers24
5 years 6 months ago

I agree with you completley. Scherzer has potential while Jackson was declining at the end of last year and Kennedy has injury history

vtadave
5 years 6 months ago

Ryan – Please tell me you were referring to Gary Nolan, not that Nolan Ryan guy.

chicowalker
5 years 6 months ago

I completely disagree, Jackson had a solid 08 in the AL East and a good 09 in AL Central, I think he’s going to dominate the NL West.

Heliosphan
5 years 5 months ago

He only had a good first half of ’09.
He was about as useful as Brandon Inge after the ASB.

chicowalker
5 years 5 months ago

He was good throughout July, about league average in August and he had a bad September. Inge was horrific the entire second half. Also, Jackson gotten consistently better over the last 3 years, moving up from a 5+ ERA in 160 innings in 07 to a 3.7 ERA in over 200 innings last year (not to mention a 1.25 WHIP) and he’s only 26 years old and moving to a relatively weak division… I think the DBack fans are going to be pleasantly surprised by what they get out of Jackson.

5 years 6 months ago

Never compare any pitcher to Nolan Ryan.

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

Jason Bay
John Lackey
Ben Sheets (Winner!)

breakz
5 years 6 months ago

Disagree on Sheets–why is he a bad move?

As take a 1-year gamble on him. He’s an ace if he’s healthy–that’s a big “if,” though, which explains why he only received $10mil (versus, say, the $20mil+ Lackey received from the Red Sox).

If he doesn’t pan out then the As are out half of what a normal SP1 costs…if he does pan out the As can either contend or trade Sheets for a top prospect (similar to Holliday-for-Wallace). This is a risky but solid deal.

Guest
5 years 5 months ago

I just don’t think you should give a guy who missed all of last year, that much guaranteed money.
Especially after he tried to trick teams into signing him to a guaranteed contract last year when he was injured.

I don’t consider him an ace either
from 2006-2009
he’s only had one year with a below 3.80 ERA (although he was hurt one of those years, constant injuries aren’t a good characteristic of an ace either)
I think that he’s more of a second starter… with potential to be an ace; he’s a little better than an AJ Burnett type.

And technically, if things work out; he’ll also earn 2 million more in incentives.
and, if they don’t trade him, it’s in his contract that “club will not offer arbitration if Sheets is Type A free agent after 2010″

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Didn’t turn out…

breakz
5 years 6 months ago

Disagree on Sheets–why is he a bad move?

As take a 1-year gamble on him. He’s an ace if he’s healthy–that’s a big “if,” though, which explains why he only received $10mil (versus, say, the $20mil+ Lackey received from the Red Sox).

If he doesn’t pan out then the As are out half of what a normal SP1 costs…if he does pan out the As can either contend or trade Sheets for a top prospect (similar to Holliday-for-Wallace). This is a risky but solid deal.

freshcutgrass
5 years 6 months ago

Bengie Molina, 1 year at 4.5mil a bad deal??? I’d call it one of the best deals. The Giants pitchers love him and his BA with RISP is off the charts. He’s the best catcher in SF history. Yes he has a downside, slow as molasses and not so good with sliders in the dirt anymore but his upside far outweighs especially if the G’s can trade him at midseason if Posey is ready.

NL_East_Rivalry
5 years 6 months ago

LaRoche declining the Giants offer… come on

5 years 6 months ago

I would never hope injury upon someone, but i think LaRoche is an exception, what a duechebag. He doesnt even deserve 17mil or even a 3 year deal…forget him, i hope Huff does work this year for the Gmen

5 years 6 months ago

That’s just vile to wish injury on anybody. He misplayed his hand, not beat up your kid.

RiverKKiller999
5 years 6 months ago

I wouldnt play 4 the Giants either i dont blame him 4 turning that deal down…. And LaRoche is better then Huff good luck with him haha

bravesyeahright
5 years 6 months ago

Nope, you wouldn’t.

danks50
5 years 6 months ago

Brian Sabean believing Bengie Molina and his sub .300 obp is a valuable offensive piece. The Nationals shelling out 7 mil per year for a 5th starter (although understandable with their rotation depth). LaRoche turing down more money (annually and in length) to sign with the D-Backs. Johnny Damon holding out to sign for a million more to play in a park where his value will undoubtedly plummet.

As for Alex Cora, Jamey Carrol, etc; anointing a signing for 2 mil or less per year as the worst deal of the offseason is ridiculous. No could could know a guy like Fellipe Lopez goes for next to nothing this late in the offseason. 2 million will cripple no clubs in the majors and a 7 year / 100+ million deal like Matt Holliday’s is infinitely more risky.

kremer
5 years 6 months ago

what about valverde…..Maybe not the worst, but in the running. he is a very good closer, but no one else was going after him and the tigers had to give up their first round draft pick….Most definitly not a greta move….. I am also a HUGE cards fan, but the Holliday reeks pretty badly

brandoncpa
5 years 6 months ago

Jason Bay
Randy Wolf
Tim Hudson