Red Sox Rumors: Beckett, Beltre

John Lackey's five-year $82.5MM deal could set the market for Josh Beckett as he discusses an extension with the Red Sox, but Jon Heyman of SI.com hears that Beckett is looking for a "slightly longer term" deal. Even though Beckett would like six years, there's optimism that the two sides will reach a deal.

Adrian Beltre turned down a longer-term deal from the A's to sign in Boston, but it wasn't because of Fenway Park, as some have speculated. Beltre, who turned down an offer from the Phillies, told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com that he believed the Red Sox could win it all.

ā€œI thought the team had a real good opportunity to win the World Series," Beltre said. "I focus on the team, not the place Iā€™m playing."

Beltre signed a deal that pays him $9MM this season and includes a player option for 2011.


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92 Comments on "Red Sox Rumors: Beckett, Beltre"


caminsc
5 years 4 months ago

“Beltre, who turned down an offer from the Phillies, told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com that he believed the Red Sox could win it all.”

Am I missing something? Didn’t the Phillies win it all two years ago and make it back last year? Nah maybe I’m mistaken.

dylanp5030
5 years 4 months ago

I was thinking the same thing. It’s a shame. Our line-up (Phillies) could have been ridiculous with Beltre (although I’m still liking it a lot this year)…

Guest
5 years 4 months ago

I think Polanco will do much better on the Phils then Beltre.

Guest
5 years 4 months ago

How so?

Guest
5 years 4 months ago

Because Polanco is one of the best 2 hole hitters in Baseball.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

yeah offensively id give an edge ( slight edge) to polanco no doubt.

but defensively… not a chance. beltre>polanco.

ilikebaseball
5 years 4 months ago

What isn’t taken into account is that Beltre also wants to get his value up and get a big deal next year. He probably thinks he could make more on the market next year than the Phillies offered him this year. I think he accepted Boston’s offer because he can go back out on the market next year while having a chance at the WS this year.

disgustedcubfan
5 years 4 months ago

I think the Red Sox are in a bit of a jam. If they don’t give Beckett what he’s looking for, the Yankees probably will.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

i think the mets are much more desperate than the yankees.

Francis_B
5 years 4 months ago

Bostons deal was probably equal to or more than the phillys offer. The A’s were the one’s known to offer a longer term deal, and they aren’t winning it all this year.

Roy Munson
5 years 4 months ago

You have got to be out of your mind if you think Beckett will take a dime less than Lackey…

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

Agreed here. the lackey deal should be a starting point for negotiations. Anything less is a waste time. I do expect him to resign in boston. When on the guy can be almost unhittable. Look at his numbers in the month or two before the all star break last year. The sox realize the yanks are gonna be needing a starter or two in the coming years when pettite retires and Vasquez leaves.

jwsox
5 years 4 months ago

really the bosox over the phillies? the bosox have to deal with the yankees who did nothing but get better this off season even if its only slightly better…there is really only one or two teams in the NL that can give the phillies a problem, the cards, and the braves there are alot of other teams that might but they all have too many question marks…On the other side the AL is stacked this year, the pitching staffs of the whitesox and mariners, the offense of the rays, angles and rangers, I’m going to have to say he made a bad decision turning down the phillies, heck it was even a bad idea to turn down a deal from the A’s, he could have been traded to a contender at the dead line, or it would have been very smart for him to stay with the M’s(i dont remember if they offered him arm) if he stayed there the M’s would have had an even better chance and could have had the best defense in the game

alphabet_soup5
5 years 4 months ago

M’s have a better chance than the Red Sox? No. They also don’t have a stacked pitching staff. Boston has to deal with the Yankees but it is very likely they’ll win the wild card. Also, being on the Red Sox > being on the A’s if you want to win.

guydavis
5 years 4 months ago

Perhaps he just likes it better in the AL

RedSoxDynasty
5 years 4 months ago

Sorry, the Yankees will regress this year and they are not better! They lost 2 big bats in Damon and Matsui. It’s doubtful that this years lineup will be as strong and the same goes for the pitching staff. Might still be the best team in baseball but last years perfect storm is over. This is a new year and one or two injuries can turn any contender into a pretender! I love Bostons staff which is easily the best in baseball and they have more than enough pieces to get any big bat they want at the deadline. Let the games begin!

ryansiciliano
5 years 4 months ago

I am a Yankees fan, and sadly, everything you said was right.

cdeeee
5 years 4 months ago

Spoken like a true homer. Slams the Yanks while praising the Sox…Granderson as a total package (Hitting and D) + Johnson OB machine in the two hole is equal to, if not greater than the combination of Damon’s bat and his poor defense plus the streaky Matsui. Don’t let what Matsui did in the World Series warp how he played last year.
Not to mention Granderson’s hitting numbers should improve just like Damon’s did in the new stadium. Not to mention a full year of ARod.

Yes the Sox pitching staff is really good, but the Yankees aren’t that far behind. IF Hughes develops into the Soxs version of Lester, which he has the potential to do, this would pretty much dead lock the two. I would take either staff in a heatbeat and if anyone sits there and says otherwise they are a fool.

But you said it best and its something EVERY team, Sox included, have to deal with, the INJURY bug.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

Actually, from all the numbers I’ve seen tossed around (not that I remember any), it seems like the only number of Granderson’s that will improve this year will be home runs. I remember seeing his BA wasn’t great, OBP not high, etc. Doesn’t sound like that’s the “whole package” to me.

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

Granderson hitting? He hit a blistering .183 against lefties last year, with an OBP of .245. Against Righties he is above average but still. the guy is no johnny damon.

RichMahogany
5 years 4 months ago

“They lost 2 big bats in Damon and Matsui.”

The same two players who could only get one-year deals because they are in danger of big declines. The Yankees replaced them with two more big bats in Granderson and Johnson. Yes, Johnson is an injury risk, but so is Matsui.

“It’s doubtful that this years lineup will be as strong and the same goes for the pitching staff.”

On the lineup: Considering that ARod will be in the lineup at 100% from day one, Johnson is a .400 OBP player, and Granderson could hit 40 HR playing in YSII, I disagree.

On the pitching staff: Considering that the Yankees added Vazquez to the rotation and Park to the bullpen, and didn’t lose any of their key starters or relievers, I disagree.

“This is a new year and one or two injuries can turn any contender into a pretender!”

Depending on the extent of the injury and the player(s) who get injured, this could be true of any team.

“I love Bostons staff which is easily the best in baseball”

It certainly is in the running. Easily, no.

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

The only way granderson hits 40 HR is if he gets his B12 shots from the same guy clemens was getting them from.

fitz
5 years 4 months ago

You honestly think the Yankees regressed? I would be surprised if they DIDN’T repeat.

NomarGarciaparra
5 years 4 months ago

that’s such an overstatement…yes the yankees have a good team, but you shouldn’t be SURPRISED if they don’t repeat. for any team, no matter how good they were last year and how good they look on paper, it’s tough to repeat. i never EXPECT a team to repeat, and thus, i’m never surprised if they don’t.

BentoBox
5 years 4 months ago

It is true that the Boston’s staff is good and all but the Yankees have a pretty good one too.
Sabathia, Vazquez, Burnett, Pettite, and either Hughes/Joba.
Plus, their offense is ridiculous. Granderson and Nick Johnson are on base machines. That package for Granderson was a bargain. They didn’t lose that much.
Meanwhile, the Red Sox’ offense is considered a question mark.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

“Burnett, vazquez, pettite”

yeah stellar. a 4 era pitcher with tons of K’s, another 4.25era pitcher with tons of K’s, and an old 4.25 era work horse.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

I believe Vazquez ERA was 2.87–Burnett 4.04 and Pettite 4.16 they combined for 42wins with 27 loses.
Buchholz 4.21-Lackey 3.83 and Dice K 5.76 they won 22 and lost 18. You can throw in Lester and you still only come up with 37wins.
Not looking to offend just giving my opinion.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

u really think vasquez is going to repeat as 2.87 era?? ok, il put the odds of that happening at 5:95.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

You said that Vasquez era was 4.25…I stated his era last season was 2.87. At no time did I say Vasquez was going to post a 2.87era this year.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

and he never said that his 4 ERA number was meant as a single season. Vasquez, outside of 2009, has been much closer to a 4 ERA pitcher than a 2.87 ERA pitcher.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

lol @ comparing wins & ERA

p.s. matsuzaka threw 59 innings last year

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Yeah, I also threw in Lester but they still came up short in the win column but who counts wins and the 100mil Dice K only threw 59 innings last year…wow and I thought they overpaid for Lackey. Keep on drinking uncle Theo’s Kool-Aid ,I’am sure he will come with a graph to show he’s worth every penny.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

100mil dice k threw 59 innings

how many did the 50mil kei igawa throw? :]

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Mistake by the Yankees and they made quite a few

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

Nobody thinks Dice-K was worth the money last year. He had injury, mechanics and personal problems. He had training problems, because his routine he had in Japan was not working out for the workload here in MLB. He had basically every kind of problem you can think of. His rookie year, as someone else stated, he had a better ERA+ (someone will need to explain this stat to me someday) than Burnett or Pettite in 2009, and in 2008 he was -very- good. He hasn’t yet lived up to his price tag, and we don’t know if he ever will, but last year was a whirlwind of crap for Dice-K, which it looked like he was overcoming by the end. He’s going to always be scrutinized, because he is admittedly overpaid (well, no, -he’s- not, but the Red Sox did overpay -for- him), but he may actually be a very good pitcher this year. I can see him being our #4, with #2 numbers.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

At long last someone who knows the game and can give an intelligent analysis. Now I can go to bed.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

“ERA+ (someone will need to explain this stat to me someday)”

Guess you were serious. ERA+ is a player’s ERA measured against the league average, and adjusted for ballpark factors. An ERA+ over 100 is better than average, less than 100 is below average.

“For instance, if the average ERA in the league is 4.00, and the pitcher is pitching in a ballpark that favors hitters, and his ERA is 4.00, then his ERA+ will be over 100. Likewise, if the average ERA in the league is 3.00, and the pitcher is pitching in a ballpark favoring pitchers, and the pitcher’s ERA is 3.00, then the pitcher’s ERA+ will be below 100.

As a result, ERA+ can be used to compare pitchers across different run environments. In the above example, the first pitcher may have performed better than the second pitcher, even though his ERA is higher. ERA+ can be used to account for this misleading impression.”

(Google is your friend.)

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

you included two pitchers that pitched half season or less in your formula, tell me how that makes sense.

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

yep and buchholz threw 90…….still a very valid point though.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Name – xFIP – ERA+

Sabathia – 3.82 – 127

Burnett – 4.29 – 106

Vasquez – 2.82 – 143 (His last three seasons in the AL, however? 3.87 – 107)

Pettitte – 4.38- 103

——————————————————-

Lester – 3.13 -138

Beckett – 3.35 – 122

Lackey – 3.92 – 118

Buchholz – 4.09 – 111 (92 IP)

Matsuzaka – 4.83 – 108 (59 IP; Last full season – 4.70 – 159)

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

You sure you haven’t been in the altar wine? According to MLB the stats for the 2009 season are: Lackey 3.83era-176innings…Buchholz 4.21era-92innings…Lester 3.41era-203innings…Dice K 5.76-59innings…Beckett 3.86era-212innings.
Yankees: Burnett 4.04era-207innings…CC 3.37era-230innings…Pettite 4.16era-194innings…Vazquez 2.87era-219innings.
As I have stated a few hours ago I’am a Marlins fan with no ax to grind. Unlike the Marlins both teams have owners that compete and put a quality product on the field. I said earlier that there is not much difference in the pitching but the addition of Vazquez made the Yankees better as opposed to the Lackey signing that I considered a risk. I’am not a Yankee fan but based on my knowledge of the game this is my opinion.
What I don’t understand is how some people can make up stats,contradict themselves and assault the truth because they have a anti-Yankee agenda.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Boy is your face going to be red when you finally figure out what xFIP & ERA+ are.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Sorry Rev, I have no interest in the statistical revolution. Baseball is a very simple game,you score the most runs you win. If you sit around reading useless stats all day you can become a little twisted. Look at the affect it has on Mr.Met

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

In other words, you don’t know to what ERA+ and xFIP refer, but you’re sure they’re useless. Because learning new things is dangerous voodoo.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

Hey, I have no idea what they are. Care to explain? :)

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Not sure if serious

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

wins is one of the worst ways to judge a pitcher. they have that many wins because their offense was so good. Not because they were excellent pitchers.

5 years 4 months ago

Granderson is not an on-base percentage machine at all. Nick Johnson is ,but he is also not going to play the entire season.

BentoBox
5 years 4 months ago

My fault there. Nick Johnson is the on-base machine. Granderson is a pretty good player still.

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

granderson OBP against lefties is .245 and overall was 327 last year. OBP machine he is not.

DWRedsox
5 years 4 months ago

“IF Hughes develops into the Soxs version of Lester, which he has the potential to do, this would pretty much dead lock the two. ”

Hughes has been a complete disaster as a starter, why would he magically turn into a Lester clone now?

nhsox
5 years 4 months ago

No kidding. I’d consider Lester to be the staff’s most talented pitcher and from a numbers point, their ace. I don’t see Hughes or Joba giving CC a run for his money as ace of staff in the Bronx any time soon. Lester could arguably be the best lefthanded pitcher in baseball in the near future.

BentoBox
5 years 4 months ago

Clayton Kershaw can give Lester a run for his money. Maybe its too early, but Brett Anderson as well.

markjsunz
5 years 4 months ago

Or the dodgers may blow out his arm from rushing him to the majors too early. He is however one of the most exciting young pitchers I have seen come thru the Dodger system since Bob Welch struck out Reggie Jackson in the 77 world series.I can not see any team in the AL east give the yankees a problem, unless there are injuries.
Tampa has a big shot at the wild card and they have young pitching that may all come together this year. 20-1 in vegas for those who have faith in the rays.koufax55

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

am i the only one who thinks the yankee’s rotation is overrated?

CC is a near lock for a 3.10-3.50 era which is definitly ace material.
then it drops off
Burnett has to be the most overrated player ever. He gets a ton of K’s which are a nice bragging tool but in reality, they mean nothing. it doesn’t matter how you get a hitter out, just so long as he GETS OUT. and his era is around a 4 year in and year out. a 4 era is not something i’d want in a #2 starter.

petitte is old and can have anywhere from a 4era-4.50 era. i guess thats ok for a #3 starter but don’t expect him to give you 200 innings+.

vasquez is the same way, he had a career year last year and you would be hard pressed to make me believe he will repeat it. probably another approximate 4 era.

so basically, you have a rotation that will give you a ton of K’s which are arbitrary and bloated era…

NOT SAYING ITS A BAD ROTATION!!! its a good rotation, but i think its overrated.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

Nope, you’re not the only one.

5 years 4 months ago

The Yankees may have improved with actual players ,but that does not win tight games.I just am not sold because they did loose the three clutchest players on that team. Matsui,Damon,and Melky where huge in certain games,and obviously the world series. I also was surprised to see Burnett healthy. He always has a possibility of him getting hurt.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

dont forget the fact they had a staggering 10 walk off wins last year. i doubt that happens again despite how good the offense is.

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

Wow! you guys are finding any excuse to burn the yankees how their pitching sucks this that they got better pitching this year both burnett and sabathia will be more comfertable this year scary thought when u think about how good sabthia pitched and how about we focus on the lack of POWER the red sox got if the yankees pitching isnt as good it wont matter because the boston lineup isnt as good as the yankees soo they cancel each other out

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

yeah how much better is burnett gonna be? he has averaged 3.84 era his career..and he had a 4.04 last year. how much do you really expect him to improve honestly?

and from years 06-09, what i consider CC’s breakout times, he has averaged 3.11 era. i doubt he gets much lower, if at all then that.

bomberj11
5 years 4 months ago

You need power to be successful? Last time I checked there was AVG., OBP, you know, things like that that factor in…

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

red sox lacked power last year and look where it got them …. SWEPT BY THE ANGELS power isnt everything but you do need it

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

You mean the Angels who ranked 11th in homeruns and 5th in slugging? While the Red Sox ranked 4th and 2nd?

Good point, clearly power had everything to do with it.

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

well the angels turned it up a notch and still beat you in the playoffs…. just give it up that little dynasty you guys had with manny and ortiz on SUPER JUICE is overrrr you guys have no 40 hr threats and maybe 2 of your guys will barely hit 30 …. youkiliss and martinez not to mention you guys lost your best power hitter o0o pleaseeee …. and no matter how much better individually your pitchers might think they might be than the yankees none of your pitchers are better CC all the other games are toss up pitching wise … lineup wise you guys cant compete

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

“The red sox lacked power last year” – salaguato

The red sox were in fact top 4 in all of baseball in both HRs and slugging pct.

“The red sox lost in the playoffs because they had no power” – salaguato

They lost to a team with less power.

“wordswordswords HOMERUNS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS” – salaguato

Everyone has a good laugh.

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

o0o and this very important stat ummmm yankees led the league in runs sooo um yeah thats a pretty darn important stat dont you think

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

“if the yankees pitching isnt as good it wont matter because the boston lineup isnt as good as the yankees soo they cancel each other out”

Yeah, I think that’s how it works.

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

ok but you get what im trying to sayyy let me brake it down for you …. when your lineup sucks compared to the yankees it wont matter about your pitching because you guys wont score as much …. the yankees have a great lineup with good pithing you guys have good pitching with a an ok lineup ….. tampa bay has a better lineup then you ….. 1-4 baltimores lineup is just as good as yours sooo save all your thinking how boston is better because they are no

NYCGriffin
5 years 4 months ago

Is it possible that the Phillies made an offer to Beltre, then Boras shopped it around, the Phils got tired of waiting and then moved on to Polanco? Then after it’s over, Beltre claims he always wanted to be a Red Sox. Wouldn’t be the first time this offseason that happened to a Boras client.

sxedge
5 years 4 months ago

The Phils offered Beltre a 2 or 3 year deal early in free agency when Boras was holding out for a 5 or 6 year deal. Boras overplayed his hand and Beltre had to take a 1 year deal. I don’t think he necessarily feels the Red Sox have a better chance than the Phils, it was all about money.

bomberj11
5 years 4 months ago

The only way we win it all is if the offseason signings perform as expected, especially Beltre and Scutaro.

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

ok they wont get much better but they cant do much worse either and whatever type of pitching they had last year won it all sooo there still favorites to win it all again when they add a guy who eats 200 innings even if his era is 4.50

BaseballFan0707
5 years 4 months ago

To be honest, the Phils would have been the better choice, if that were the case. No offense to the Red Sox, who have a good team and have a good shot at the playoffs, but I think the Phillies have much less standing between them and the WS this year than do the Red Sox.

Unless the Braves end up THAT much improved, every playoff team either didn’t improve or got worse from last year in the N.L. The Phillies slightly upgraded with Polanco, but I’m on the side of Tim Dierkes in that a long term deal for him is a disaster waiting to happen, and was a bad idea. They could of had him at a one year deal with a team option and a decent buyout.

j6takish
5 years 4 months ago

Comerica is a pretty hard park to hit homers in. It’s a safe bet to say most of the Tigers hitters probably hit better away from home. Just saying

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Not a fan of either team but when you look at the stats they look pretty even. In fact,Vazquez might put them over the top. Lackey has not been healthy the last two years and Beckett also has been hurt which make both risky. Lester is good but no ace and had a losing record against winning teams as did Buchholz. Dice K is a bust and the bullpen is not better than the Yankees. Also,CC is better than all of them.

Encarnacion's Parrot
5 years 4 months ago

It is kind of mind boggling to turn away from the team who has made it to the WS 2 years in a row to sign with “a WS contender.” My only guess is Beltre wanted to stay in the AL.

The thinking that Beltre would improve his offense with the green monster is still a valid conclusion. How often do you hear a player say their out for themselves, and not the team? Maybe A-Rod’s $25-million/yr, but that’s about it.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Yes that is certainly an even-handed analysis there.

BentoBox
5 years 4 months ago

Lets play a game !
Player A – (2009)
3.15 FIP/203.1 IP/225 SO/1.23 WHIP/3.52 K/BB
Player B – (2009)
3.39 FIP/230 IP/197 SO/1.15 WHIP/2.94 K/BB

Player A is Jon Lester.
Player B is CC Sabathia.
I agree that Sabathia is better than all of them. However, Lester is really good too and he posted ace-like numbers. I would think that he is Boston’s ace.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

I’m with metsville; last year was an abnormality for Vasquez, not a sign for better years ahead. He’s going to look more like the Javier Vasquez that played for NY a couple years ago than the Javier Vasquez we saw last year. Lackey has not been rock-solid, but he still gets in a lot of innings for all these health problems I’m hearing about. Plus his numbers are superb for a #3. Lester is GREAT and while not an ace, the losing record against winning teams may have more to do with offensive production than with his own abilities. He had better numbers than Beckett last year in nearly every category except for wins. It’s not that Beckett steps it up for better teams; if that was true he would also have the better peripheral numbers. Instead, the offense helped him out more than they helped out Lester; that’s actually a reason I prefer Beckett over Lester as our ace; clearly the offense wants to step it up for him. Buchholz is still growing; I see him as our #6 this year, although he should get plenty of time to pitch, with as you said, Lackey’s health problems, as well as Beckett and Wakefield. I wouldn’t put Dice-K in the bust column yet; where were you in the last couple months of 2009? He completely turned it around after taking time to get his body properly prepared. Things have started slow for him, but I have confidence that without the WBC this year, and with him on the Red Sox routine instead of his own, that he can turn it around. This year is the test for him I think; if he falls apart this year, feel free to shout “I TOLD YOU SO”. But until then lets hold judgement; he showed a strong sign of good things to come at the end of last year.

About CC, again, someone else made a great post comparing Lester and CC’s numbers. I still agree with you, CC is damn good. But as a full rotation 1-5, I’ll take Boston any day, and that’s not -completely- because I’m a “homer”. šŸ˜› Vasquez will regress, Petitte is consistent but is also getting old, which either means decline in quality, or more injuries. Burnett is one of the most inconsistent pitchers I’ve ever seen, although when he’s good he is damn good, and while the Red Sox have a conundrum with the #5 slot in that they have two starters that could do a great job, the Yankees have a conundrum in that they don’t have a proven starter ready to take the place. Yes, I know you’ll all tell me it’ll be Hughes, but he’s still got a lot to prove; more than Buchholz, in my opinion. And while the Red Sox could choose Wakefield over Buchholz as the experienced player, the Yankees next options are Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Lackey been hurt the last two years and Beckett had problems last year while Burnett has been healthy the last two seasons. Not sure what you are talking about but who winss more than the Yankees. Both along with the Phils are by far the best teams in baseball but I think my Marlins are better than your Mets and Hanley is one of the best in the game.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

I said Lester was good but he did have a losing record against winning teams. Beckett was always their go to guy and maybe I’am bias because he played for the Marlins but if you had to win one game, Beckett would get the nod.

jhd5787
5 years 4 months ago

If I were a yankee fan I would be worried about the ammount of innings sabathia has pitched the past few years. The brewers abused him all through september in 08 because they had no chance of retaining him, and then girardi pitched him on three days rest all through the playoffs.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Harden has had health problems his entire career while Lackey has sustained an injury free career until the last two seasons and you don’t understand why this would be relevant. Maybe to a resonable person it would indicate that he is breaking down and a big risk to sign long term. Like they did with K Rod the Angels didn’t make an offer.You think they knew something they were right about K Rod-Boston was right about Pedro but your Mets signed both and got burnt. Like I said I’am a Marlins fan who gave a opinion about two of the best clubs in baseball. Being a Met fan in NY must be hard but you can’t let your emotions get in the way of the facts.

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

“Nobody would argue the point that the Yankees have the best offense in the game today.”

Although I still find it mindboggling that Randy Winn is their STARTING left fielder. O.o

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Have time for a quick review of your facts?

“Lackey has not been healthy the last two years”

Averaged 170 IP the last two seasons, around 215 IP over the three before that. Given his clean bill of health, it’s hardly a near-term concern.

“and Beckett also has been hurt which make both risky.”

Is that right? Beckett’s average of 196 innings per season since he joined the sox in ’06 – a four year period — alarms you, does it? Screams “injury risk”?

“Lester is good but no ace”

Ace numbers — better than Sabathia’s, even — but not an ace. Gotcha.

“had a losing record against winning teams as did Buchholz.”

You mean 90 IP Clay Buchholz? Lester had a losing record against four teams: Florida, Minnesota, Oakland, and Seattle. He was .500 against the Rays & Yankees.

“Dice K is a bust”

Daisuke pitched 59 innings last year. Prior to that, he posted an ERA+ of 159. His ERA+ his rookie year was 108 which is higher than both Pettitte’s and Burnett’s 2009 number – and higher than Vasquez’s AL average.

“and the bullpen is not better than the Yankees.”

Yeah? 3.80 ERA v. 3.91 ERA. Guess which is which

“Also,CC is better than all of them.”

Only by the most primitive measures available.

Thanks for all your facts!

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Yeah lets review the facts:
Lackey-170 inn.avg over the last two seasons…215 inn. avg over previous three.
You made my point, Lackey at 31 is a risky sign that could very easily break down.
Beckett-Like Pedro, I think Boston saw something in his health make-up and have no intention of signing him long term. My quess is they will go after Lee.
Lester- is a good pitcher but the truth is he had a losing record against winning teams.He was outstanding against the Jays and Baltimore but in my opinion that doesn’t make him an ace.
Buchholz-see Lester
Dice K-100mil for 37wins-I think Theo would like to redo that signing.
CC is better than all of them only by the most primitive measure. Yea,the measures that count.
Bullpens-now you want to count the era’s-That’s called selective rationalization. I think of bullpen excellence in one word MO.

riverahammerofgod
5 years 4 months ago

funny before cc last start getting pounce by tb, he had a 3.21 era, with a 1.10 whip he pounce for 8 runs in 2/2/3 innings.

lester close, but cc still better.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

I was comparing era’s and total wins in my original post and he made a feeble attempt to disprove them with useless geek metrics. I responed by using the same stats I used in the original post. And no I didn’t attack him stop being a drama queen

BoSoxSam
5 years 4 months ago

I’m only going to focus on two points for now, I don’t want to ramble too much this time.

“Beckett-Like Pedro, I think Boston saw something in his health make-up and have no intention of signing him long term. My quess is they will go after Lee.”

My guess is that they sign Beckett. Sure, rumors are just rumors, but it sounds like talks are definitely progressing, and as cold-hearted as Epstein can be sometimes (Nomar, Lowell), he talked straight to both of them. I doubt he would be leading Beckett on like this just to say we don’t trust your health, we’re moving on to Lee. BTW, Lee is two years older than Beckett, why would they take a guy who has already played about half of his prime over a guy just about to enter his. Lee has only had two ace years, 08 and 09 (2005 was good too), while Beckett has been consistently good since 2003. Plus since 2004, Beckett has averaged 187 innings while Lee has averaged 189; not exactly much more of an injury concern to me. (although I do see now that Lee’s 07 number was low because he was sent down to AAA, which bumps his numbers up..) Beckett is integral to the spirit and dedication of this team, and while he has small injuries every year, I think the Red Sox feel its nothing that is pointing towards a big injury down the road. He’ll be signed for a similar contract as Lackey’s; bigger of course, but I would be surprised to see the extra year he wants.

And bullpen. You complain about his selective rationalization in only quoting ERAs, and then you attempt to end the discussion by throwing out Mariano Rivera. Sorry, you can’t do that. He pitches ONE INNING in a game, and he doesn’t even pitch in half of the games. As great as he may be, he does NOT equal a great bullpen. Besides, Papelbon has always looked up to Mo as his idol, and if Paps successfully brings back his slider, he’s going to be pretty close to as dominant as Rivera this year. Delcarmen is the biggest question mark I can find in the RS bullpen. Okajima, Ramirez, and Bard are all scary names to see come on the field. After that, this year could be interesting; watch out for Boof Bonser though, he looks VERY strong so far this Spring.

putzoo
5 years 4 months ago

Are you for real?
Yes Lackey has been hurt for the last two seasons which at the age of 31 makes him a risky sign. You might think it’s not serious and you maybe right but the Angels didn’t attempt to sign him.
If you do not think you got burnt with K Rod you need to start watching some ball games. The Mets got burnt because K Rod was burnt out from the year before. He lost his fast ball and was relying on a change up for his out pitch.Wow…Pedro was fine his first year but the only problem was the Mets signed him for four (4) years. Boston came out and said that on the advise of their medical staff they would not sign him long term so I guess the Mets and their medical staff are idiots. I think Beltran and Reyes would agree. Time will tell with Bay, as much as Boston needed aa bat they let him walk on the advise of their medical staff before they would give him four years.

ReverendBlack
5 years 4 months ago

Win totals and era are among the most feeble metrics of performance. Do you by any chance love Joe Morgan?

salaguato
5 years 4 months ago

you could throw any dumb irrelevant stat out there the yankees are still the better team …. you sond like peter gammons