Mets Won’t Deal Mejia Without Negotiating Window

The Mets aren't ready to deal Jenrry Mejia in a package for Cliff Lee unless Lee gives them a negotiating window, according to Kevin Burkhardt of SNY (via Twitter).  Recently, it was reported that the Mets would be unlikely to deal Mejia, Jonathon Niese, or Ike Davis for the 2008 Cy Young winner.

Burkhardt adds (also via Twitter) that the Mets could change their minds on the matter.  However, if Seattle is willing to deal Lee sooner rather than later, there may not be much time to have a change of heart.  The Twins and Dodgers are also said to be in the mix for Lee and could beat GM Omar Minaya to the punch.  Many feel that Minnesota is the front-runner in the Lee sweepstakes.


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101 Comments on "Mets Won’t Deal Mejia Without Negotiating Window"


bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Without any of those 3 in the deal I don’t see a trade being worked out. People are making it seem like Seattle has to deal Lee. But, why short ourselves? We still get two compensation picks out of him if nobody wants to offer any legit prospects. Rental or not, Jack Z is going to get exactly what he wants, but he seems more inclined to take the two draft picks IMO. He built the farm system for Milwaukee, I’m sure he can do it for Seattle whether it be through trades or the draft.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

If they arent going to give up Mejia or Flores, then there is no point even talking to the Mets. The rest of their prospects are middling IMO.

5 years 1 month ago

Meh, I could see the Mariners mulling over a package of Fernando Martinez and Josh Thole

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Fernando Martinez doesn’t seem that interesting to me. He seems like he has the ceiling of a 4th OF or AAAA guy.

5 years 1 month ago

A crappy performance in the majors at 20 says nothing to his potential. Actually, the basic fact that he was given a chance in the majors at 20 says a lot about his potential. He has a while to work things out. All the scouting reports say that his ceiling is incredibly high. Clearly you didn’t do your homework on him.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Too injury prone for my liking. I doubt M’s would consider any deal where Martinez is the headline player.

5 years 1 month ago

for a half year rental? Are you serious? that’s the best they would get (unless some really bad GM overpays)

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Half year rental of an elite starting pitcher.

We will wait and see what the M’s get, but I feel pretty confident it will be better than Fernando Martinez and a backup catcher.

jimboslice9
5 years 1 month ago

Honestly I think everyone is overvaluing F-Mart, he is injured way too often, but Thole will definitely be more than a backup catcher, if he isn’t traded, he is likely to be the everyday starter in 2012-13, so he definitely has more potential than being just a backup.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Mediocre defense. No power whatsoever. The M’s have no need for him. They have the same player, with a bit more power in Adam Moore.

jimboslice9
5 years 1 month ago

His defense is actually pretty solid, and he has no power, but so what, he is still a contact hitter, and he has a pretty solid arm, so he may have no fit on the Mariners, but he definitely will develop into something more than a back-up for whatever team he is on.

5 years 1 month ago

Joe Mauer is essentially like Thole. He had a giant year last year but it was completely out of whack with his career norms. Obviously Thole won’t reach Mauer levels, but their games are similar – High BA high OBP.

5 years 1 month ago

Joe Mauer is essentially like Thole. He had a giant year last year but it was completely out of whack with his career norms. Obviously Thole won’t reach Mauer levels, but their games are similar – High BA high OBP.

Just_MLB
5 years 1 month ago

seattle gave up less for a full year of an elite starting pitcher..
philadelphia gave up even less than that for 2 years of an elite starting pitcher..
and there are 2 other aces that ARE NOT rentals on the market at the same time..( haren/oswalt )

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Just because Philly and Cleveland did a bad job in their prospect evaluation, doesn’t mean Seattle has to do the same thing. Nobody told Philly to take three of Seattle’s mediocre prospects. The market dictates what Seattle will get, not prior trades for Lee.

Haren is barely on the market, and Oswalt isn’t as good as Lee, and would come with a bigger price to pay financially, and prospect wise. To get Lee you have to give up one top level prospect. It would be 2-3 for Oswalt.

Just_MLB
5 years 1 month ago

if u absorb the entire contract, u only have to give up 1 prospect…and u have oswalt for at least 2011 and possibly 2012…

and Haren is on the market…granted he just got put on…but none the less…seattle/lee are far from the only options to deal with…

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Which is completely true. We’re not saying that it’s Lee or nothing else, there are options out there. But, that is also more reason for Seattle to just hold him instead of taking a sub par offer.

Just_MLB
5 years 1 month ago

…oswalt has given up 3 or less ER in 14 of his 16 starts..
…lee has given up 3 or less ER in 9 of his 11 starts.

lee would be a rental…oswalt would not…
if u absorb oswalts salary…u can get him for even less than what u would give up for lee…

with so much uncertainty in the season…it doesnt make sense to mortgage 2011 and beyond when u dont know how 2010 looks in June…

that being said…if lee agrees to an extension ( 3 years with a 4th year option )…I pull the trigger..if not, i look at oswalt/haren….unless seattle drops their demands…

i said it before, i’ll say it again…the BEST match for seattle is tampa bay….they have prospects galore and 1-4 of price..lee…niemann and garza would be a nightmare in the playoffs…they can afford to lose lee…recoup prospects and then make another run in 2012…

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

never heard that before. Makes sense though, I can dream though I would love to get a hold of some of their prospects.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Lee pitches in the AL and has better advanced stats/peripherals. He’s better than Oswalt, not to mention what he proved in the postseason a year ago.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

There’s a reason F-Mart has dropped like a stone on every prospect list. You can keep telling yourself he’s got crazy value, but the guys who do this for a living seem to disagree. As for Thole, he’s a decent 2nd-tier prospect.

Mejia, Ike or Niese. They’re the only chips the Mets have that can come close to Wilson Ramos in value. If the Mets don’t add at least one to their offer, they have zero chance in a bidding war with the Twins, let alone the other teams in the mix

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Why is Ramos even ranked higher than Thole..the last 3yrs his offensive stats are better than Ramos. Don’t believe me..check for yourself. He must be a wiz behind the plate because Thole so far has put up better offensive numbers

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

They project as different kinds of players. Thole is a plus-OBP singles slap hitter, VERY little power, but not a good fit at the top of an order because he can’t run.

Ramos is projected as a 3-4-5 hitter, a real thumper with HR power. An offensive centerpiece.

I’m not trying to knock Thole, he could have a great career slappng singles, but you don’t build an offense around a guy like that.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Ramos is projected as 3-4-5 hitter but has only topped double digit homeruns once since ’06. Who says Thole can’t run? Trust me when i say he is far from a slug, but he’s no carl crawford or jose reyes. LoDuca batted 2nd and trust me when i say..Thole will outrun LoDuca at his best.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

Everything you said may be true…but it doesn’t matter. Yu asked why Ramos is highly-touted while Thole is not, and I told you.

Actually that’s a pretty good comparison…Thole, if he pans out, could be a Lo Duca type player. Ramos, if he pans out, is Brian Mccann. Which one do you think most teams would rather have?
Right now Ramos has tons of value; Thole does not.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I think Braves fans would take offense to you comparing Ramos to McCann. If a guy has only topped 10 HR’s ONCE since ’06..i don’t care what any scout says..he will not have a lot of pop at the ML level.n Odds are against him. This isn’t Weiters, Santana, Montero or Posey we are talking about. Scouts also said Justin Smoak was much better than Ike Davis..how is that turning out so far?

Oh btw..Ramos started out at number 58 this year. Care to wager he’s dropped considerably since?

Some of you fans make me laugh. You know nothing about other teams prospects, read where a player is listed on the top 100 and make a judgment. Go ahead and take Ramos who is batting .218 with 13 extra base hits and 18 RBI’s. I’m sure he’ll be that “Brian McCann” type player you expected.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

>I think it’s pretty amusing you denigrate others for not knowing a team’s prospects, then proceed to talk down Ramos. You apparently know better than the experts? It’s not like people are pulling his name out of a hat – he was a hot topic even before the Lee speculation.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I’m not talking down Ramos, i’m just saying what stats tell me. Offensively Thole is better and has been better since ’07 or ’08. If Mets fans called F-Mart the Next Manny and he couldnt crack 10hrs..we’d never hear the end of it. Thole just started catching the last 2 or 3 years exclusively. Thole may be batting only .267 but he’s been hitting well over .300 since May. I’m just saying the 2 may be closer than you think.

You want and talk highly of a prospect hitting .218..but a guy like F-Mart who smashed AAA last year at 20..you think is overrated.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

I understand what you mean, and I’m honestly not trying to denigrate Thole, or F-Mart for that matter. I’m not even saying Ramos is going to be some amazing big-leaguer…I’m just talking trade value. Ramos, right now, is more highly-regarded than either of the others.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I’m not talking down Ramos, i’m just saying what stats tell me. Offensively Thole is better and has been better since ’07 or ’08. If Mets fans called F-Mart the Next Manny and he couldnt crack 10hrs..we’d never hear the end of it. Thole just started catching the last 2 or 3 years exclusively. Thole may be batting only .267 but he’s been hitting well over .300 since May. I’m just saying the 2 may be closer than you think.

You want and talk highly of a prospect hitting .218..but a guy like F-Mart who smashed AAA last year at 20..you think is overrated.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I think Braves fans would take offense to you comparing Ramos to McCann. If a guy has only topped 10 HR’s ONCE since ’06..i don’t care what any scout says..he will not have a lot of pop at the ML level.n Odds are against him. This isn’t Weiters, Santana, Montero or Posey we are talking about. Scouts also said Justin Smoak was much better than Ike Davis..how is that turning out so far?

Oh btw..Ramos started out at number 58 this year. Care to wager he’s dropped considerably since?

Some of you fans make me laugh. You know nothing about other teams prospects, read where a player is listed on the top 100 and make a judgment. Go ahead and take Ramos who is batting .218 with 13 extra base hits and 18 RBI’s. I’m sure he’ll be that “Brian McCann” type player you expected.

5 years 1 month ago

Wilson Ramos SLG%: 2010 – .330(AAA), 2009 – .454(AA), 2008 – .434(A+)
Josh Thole SLG%: 2010 – .430(AAA), 2009 – .422(AA), 2008 – .427 (A+)

You might want to look up your facts before you speak. Thole may not have the home runs, but he chokes up a lot on the bat which gives him great gap power to hit a lot of doubles. Sure Thole may peak at 5 home runs for a season, but if he is going to give you 30+ doubles with decent defense and a great OBP% that has some value. Plus Thole never strikes out. Go take a look at his K:BB and Ramos’.

I’m not saying he is better, but the gap isn’t as far as the public tries to make it out to be and I would take a package of F-Mart, Thole,+ else over Ramos+ anyday of the week.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

::shakes head:: it cracks me up when people use the “do some research” card when they obviously did very little themselves.

Look, there’s no point in getting all butt-hurt over what I said. I’ve got nothing against Thole. The fact is Ramos is a mid-40’s on the top-100 talent. So is Mejia. F-Mart is mid-70’s. Thole usually doesn’t even make those lists.

So…you go ahead and keep listing stats, chokin up and being all bootstrappy with Thole if that’s what floats your boat…but he is not, in terms of trade value, 1/2 the value of Ramos…and in case you missed it, that is ALL we’ve discussed in this thread.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Ramos was ranked 58th..not mid 40’s and i guarantee you he has dropped since.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Ramos was ranked 58th..not mid 40’s and i guarantee you he has dropped since.

Mauerneau
5 years 1 month ago

Ramos is also a catcher…

Mauerneau
5 years 1 month ago

Ramos is also a catcher…

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

You obviously know nothing about the Mets prospects.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

I don’t see him as an interesting prospect. I’d take two first round draft picks over a package headed by Fernando Martinez. And Mark, it made no difference if he got a call up at 16 to me, his ceiling is incredibly high based on scouting reports, but I just don’t see it. He’ll play through pain, sure that’s good and dandy and all, but I don’t want an injury issue minor league player in return for Cliff Lee, again, I’d take 2 draft picks over Fernando Martinez. I don’t know a whole lot about the Mets minor league system your right mattmosher, I usually read up on the farm systems that are at the top of the rankings, not at the bottom of them like my team. More interesting reading ya know.

Just_MLB
5 years 1 month ago

in 2010….Mets 21–year-old OF Fernando Martinez was named MVP of the Caribbean Series, during which he hit .348 in 23 at bats with a double and two home runs….He also performed well during spring training ( hit .383 with power )…

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Which is fine and all. I never said he is absolute trash. I just don’t see the potential in this guy, I think he is a future MLB player just not in the capacity certain people seem to think he will be. I’ve heard his name mentioned in every trade rumor, if he was that great of a prospect and able to net that much in return for the Mets, do you really think he would still be in AAA. And I’m sorry, but if we’re using spring training stats the Mariners should be in first place and Mike Sweeney should be leading the league in average.

Msforever
5 years 1 month ago

23 at bats? Time to reserve his spot in Cooperstown right now.
I actually think he has some potential but I heard he is extremely injury prone.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

…and he’s put up a sub-.300 OBP and sub-.700 OPS so far in the regular season.

Just_MLB
5 years 1 month ago

….again F-Mart is amoung the youngest players in AAA again…

link to projectprospect.com
link to baseballamerica.com

i do think that bringing him up last year was borderline criminal…

link to firstinning.com

Fernando is only 21…and may/may not be needed as their OF is already
crowded…with some decent prospects in the minors now ( aside from F-Mart )
right now..it appears they could be fielding 6 out of 8 positions from their
farm next year

C- Thole
1B – Davis
2B – Tejada
3B – Wright
SS – Reyes
CF – Pagan

LF – Bay
RF – Francour

…i think beltran gets traded this off-season

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

Interesting…it certainly would clear room to sign Lee.

5 years 1 month ago

would never pan out. Beltran waiving his FULL no-trade clause, Mets eating the majority (likely $10mm+) of his remaining $18.5mm, and finding a trade partner willing to take on a center fielder who is just recovering from knee surgery would be an immense challenge. This is not MLB: THE SHOW. it is unfortunate trades just dont work like that.But when it’s all said and done, I think the mets would sign Pagan to a back-loaded multi-year deal, and be the mets 4th outfeilder in 2011 (giving beltran plenty of rest) and take over after beltan departs.it also sucks for the mets that whomever beltran signs with, the mets would get nothing. even if he’s a type A or B, the mets would have to offer beltran at least $14.8mm in arbitration (at least 80% of his 2011 salary), which he would gobble up, to get any compensation picks.

Msforever
5 years 1 month ago

We know that they’re not good. And F Mart as a headliner? No chance.

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

LOL….you aren’t getting Martinez for Lee anyway. Keep dreaming.

You guys are going to be pretty disappointed with what you end up getting, I can tell you that.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

…and you’re crazy if you think F-Mart would even GET Lee, when another team is dangling Ramos.

Joseph
5 years 1 month ago

Mulling but not making that deal. Thole isn’t very good right now and the M’s want a catcher who can step in now.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Very true. There should be some window to know that we aren’t renting him or getting the Yankees top draft pick for next year. If not Cliff Lee, there is Roy Oswalt.

Rich_in_NJ
5 years 1 month ago

I don’t think Lee would give up free agency at this point. He won’t have maximum leverage if he is negotiating with only one team.

sportsnut969
5 years 1 month ago

When the indians dealt Lee they end up with the low level prospects from Philly because of Lee’s refusal to extend with a team trading for him.

The Indians allowed several teams to talk with Lee agent including the Mets, Boston, Dodgers , Cardinals & Yankees last year when they asked about him and the Agent would only return phone calls with a message that at this time we will be testing the free agent market.

At that time the rumored trade was Neise , Mejia or Holt, Thole and a lower level prospect for Lee but only if he excepted a new long term contract. Last year this was also reported by Rosenthal and Law. Even Gammons came out and said if this deal went down he felt it would be a great trade for both teams if the Mets were able to get Lee signed.

This is why the indians look at Jason Knapp as the future center piece of this trade and if Philly would not have included him the deal would not have happened.

FYI local sports writer in Cleveland Paul Hoynes said his sources in the Indians said Lee was seeking a CC type deal, in his mind he feels that he is as good if not better than CC and after watching both og these guys for years except for the one bad year and a half where Lee was playing hurt and on the DL he may be right.

It is rare when a team trades any of there top 5 prospects for a rental player even when the Indians traded CC to the Brewers LaPorta was the highest rate prospect in that deal and he was their #5 prospect and Brantley was #7 and Bryson was a top 15 guy.

Msforever
5 years 1 month ago

Lee’s agent already stated that he’s going to test free agency. If the Mets are truly making all of these “prospects” untouchable, then I think Jack Z will look elsewhere.

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

The Mets should just trade for Roy Oswalt. The Astros want salary relief and the Mets would retain control for two more years. That sure as hell beats paying Lee $18M per for his decline years.

Msforever
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed. I hope the Mets go for Oswalt and not Lee. Their aren’t any prospects that aren’t untouchable that I would want for the M’s in the Mets system.
Here’s to hoping that the Mets offer F-Mart and Thole for Roy Oswalt!

frank_costanza
5 years 1 month ago

Oswalts got a hefty contract, and who is to say you wouldnt be paying for his decline years? he is slightly older than Lee and has also had injury problems. not to mention that Lee is the better pitcher.

jimboslice9
5 years 1 month ago

Well, Lee supposedly has come out and said he will not negotiate an extension or new contract until the off-season, so I think the rumors of the Mets getting Lee are pretty much dead.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Mejia just left today’s game with shoulder issues.

Personally, Flores is the only guy in the Mets system I have interest in. Mejia could be damaged goods based on how his shoulder checks out over the next week.

Msforever
5 years 1 month ago

Again, we’ll see in the following posts how much Mets fans overvalue their prospects. Even with this injury info, they’ll still probably think its fair for there to be a negotiating window for “damaged goods” Mejia to be included in a deal for Lee.
Anyway, if Mejia is hurt badly, then I truly think that a potential deal with the Mets is dead based on the fact that they won’t give up Davis or Neise and have little else that the M’s would want.

coolstorybro222
5 years 1 month ago

I think the mets are crossing their arms and going “NO NO NO” when the M’s even bring up some top tier prospects. I mean Ike Davis is impossible. He just came up and started playing for the Mets and now he would be traded? I don’t see that as plausible. Also, There are more teams that are willing to give up prospects to get him. *cough*bravespadres*cough*.

5 years 1 month ago

1st of all Cliff Lee is a rental player so don’t expect a huge package in return……second, its been noted that Seattle wants a catcher in return and Thole has put up good numbers in AAA……Fernando Martinez is a top prospect and has done a great job in the Caribbean World Series and spring training…..sure he’s hurt a lot at 21 but so was Jose Reyes at his age….besides last year we know how he turned out…..also the Mets would assume the 4.5 mil Lee is still owed……Lee can say he wants free agency all he wants but if he’s offered 5 years 100 mil right now…..I’m sure he would have a hard time turning that down…..Ike Davis and Jon Niese are UNTOUCHABLE so forget about them……and the Mets have a ton of prospects that are 2 or 3 years away from the major leagues

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

We only want a catcher if it’s a real good one. A guy with high probability of being a 2-3 WAR catcher. A guy like Wilson Ramos. Thole is not that guy. We already have Adam Moore who is a superior young catcher, and has actually popped up on Top 100 lists.

We don’t want Thole.

Mejia, Flores, Martinez, Tejada.. I imagine these are players we have interest in. But for any deal to make sense for Seattle, it’s going to have to have Mejia or Flores as the headliner. If not, M’s can just take their two comp picks, in what is a strong draft in 2011.

BTW, I don’t want John Niese. Mets fans think this guy is going to be the next Cliff Lee, when in reality he’s a future #3 at best.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Have you compared Thole with Ramos, or are you repeating what others have stated? Just compare the 2 and let me know what you think

boy9988
5 years 1 month ago

If all it took was 5yrs $100mill, Seattle would have signed him already. Its not that easy. A guy that has been traded 2 (soon to be 3) times in a calender year; he wants to be able to choose where he wants to go. Unlike the Met fans, we hear him talk to our media everyday. We KNOW, from the man’s mouth, that that is what he wants.
Your prospects are not good enough. So get over yourself. I don’t even like Ramos, and he is still a better prospect than what is left after your untouchables.
And third, Cliff Lee is the best pitcher in baseball right now. Of course we are going to get a big haul. Its not as simple as “he has 3 months left on this contract.” Its that he is a difference maker. He can drag a team to the post season and even more important, in the post season, he can drag a team to the world series. If you think its all about the “rental player,” then thank god for the rest of the Mets fans that your not the GM.

5 years 1 month ago

“If all it took was 5yrs $100mill, Seattle would have signed him already.”

Ditto for Philly, in fact, they offered him the same contract Halladay ended up signing, which was essentially 5 years, $100 million.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I really don’t remember but exactly what did the Mariners give up..for what they ASSUMED would be a full season of Cliff Lee? I know Brandow Morrow and they were a bunch of other players who aren’t doing that well for the Phillies. But people expect either a Meija, Davis or Niese for 2 months? Say what you want about Mets prospects but the 3 mentioned in this article are currently doing better than what they gave up for Lee..in what was suppose to be a season worth. You can’t expect better prospects thaN what you gave up for 2 months worth of baseball.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Phillipe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez. Seattle didn’t give up much for Lee that is correct. But, just because they didn’t give up much does not mean they shouldn’t expect much in return. Every player has a value for different teams. Cliff Lee may be worth much more to say Minnesota than the Mets, so the Mets may not be willing to part with Jonathan Niese or Ike Davis, which is completely understandable. There is nothing wrong with the Mariners asking for more than what they paid, it’s not their fault Ruben Amaro sold low on Cliff Lee.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

So they gave up fool’s gold, but should expect a king’s ransom..with only a few months left? I understand Mariner fans want solid prospects, but the longer they hold, they less leverage they have. Taking those draft picks isn’t a given either. Why is Ramos even a better prospect than Thole? Have you compared the offensive stats?

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Cmon dude. You think Thole is better than Ramos? You’d be the only talent evaluator in baseball who thinks that.

Adam Moore has better AAA stats than Ramos does, doesn’t mean he’s a better prospect. There is something called projection and defensive ability. Ramos has a better arm than both Moore and Thole. He has significantly more power, and he’s a better defensive catcher.

That is why he’s a Top 30-40 prospect and Thole never makes a list.

And your argument about what we gave up and what we should get back is silly.

You guys traded three worthless players to the Twins for Santana, so if you dealt him now you’d expect to get crap back, since the guys you gave up all suck? (and for this question lets assume Santana is still the old Santana and isn’t making 23 million)

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

I honestly don’t know who is better than who. I’m not a scout..but i do know the last 3 years Thole has been better offensively. Like there havent been busts in the top 100? Alex Gordon was a former number 1 prospect and he can’t even crack the KC starting lineup. The argument is only silly because you really think a player is going to be traded for more value than he was the last 2 times he was traded within a year. The first time with a year and half left on his contract..the second with a season left and now u want more for 2 months worth of baseball? This isn’t some video game. For all i care..you can take the draft picks and either watch them flop or take years to mature.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

They look about the same to me, and Ramos is a year younger. Thole isn’t blowing away AAA at age 23. And Ramos isn’t at age 22. But I want more than 188 ABs before I conclude Ramos cant hit AAA pitching yet.

And the bottomline is that scouts see more power in Ramos’ future and they also see a superior defensive player. It’s all about projectablility.

And you’ll see soon that Lee nets better prospects for the M’s than he did for Cleveland or Philly. It won’t be hard given that none of those prospects are doing anything significant.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

You really think 2 months of lee is worth more than a season and a season and a half of Lee? That’s what these GM’s will be bringing up. That’s the point..it’s not what he’s worth, it’s what he’s worth for 2 months of playing time.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Two months of playing time down the stretch during the most important time of the season. Yes, that will be very important. Almost guaranteeing a win every 5 days, yes, I’m quite sure that will be a main point of focus as well. Your placing too much value on length and not enough value on time of the season. A stretch run can get a team hot at the right time where they ride that winning streak right into the playoffs, look at Colorado in 07′. Cliff Lee is a valued commodity to due to what he is able to do in the playoffs. I believe we can all agree that is what the game is played for? To find out who wins the World Series. So, that adds more value to Lee even though it is less time to have him, the opportunity to win a World Series for your team being the most important part of the game is what justifies asking for the said “kings ransom”

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

We shall see, i don’t agree with what most of you assume will happen. We’ll see when he’s traded and what’s given up for him. One of us is going to be disappointed and i’m pretty sure it wont be me. Not because i think i’m right, but because it’s not a star from my team being traded.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Your reading too far into length of contract. There is more to it than contract time. Take a team that is desperate for a playoff victory, or even making the playoffs. That intensity can lead to making decisions that are not in the best interest of the organization long term. It doesn’t need to be a video game for a GM to make a bad trade, great example, Bill Bavasi in Seattle giving up the farm for Erik Bedard thinking we were close to contention. The draft picks are fine, Jack Z has always drafted well, I have faith in him either way. And I agree with your screen name, I wish you had one too.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

They have plenty of leverage regardless. They still get two draft picks at the end of the season. That is why it seems as though Jack Z is not in a hurry to get rid of Lee. To me it seems as though he will prefer the two draft picks over a sub par package. And absolutely they can expect a kings ransom, because they don’t have to trade him. The draft picks give plenty of leverage.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Like i said above..take the draft picks, lol. When they either flop or don’t pan out, you’ll be saying “They should’ve taken the package”. Draft picks arent guarantees. Neither are players in a trade, but at least they’ve played some type of professional ball, not high school or college. I just find it funny how a few months ago..Mariner fans thought they’d run away with the division, now they at the bottom of the divisoon but expect better prospects than what they gave up..for 2 months of sevice.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Most M’s fans predicted 78-84 wins. Nobody said they would run away with the division. And the state of the M’s and what position they are in the division has little effect on what they can get for Lee.

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

I agree…take the damn picks. That way you guys have no one to blame but yourselves.

boy9988
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed. I don’t see how people in NY don’t get that. They live in a city that is the world’s perfect example of capitalism. Its the Law of Supply and demand. We have the only supply of a cheap Cy Young caliber pitcher available with 5 or so teams “demanding” him. In addition, we don’t have to give him up and can receive 2 1st round compensation picks in a deep draft for losing him. The crap that Mets fans are trying to feed us doesn’t even make us want to give up our two draft choices TO YOU!! Lets not forget that Lee can leave your team and YOU will get the compensation picks. So now its a 3 month rental AND 2 first round draft picks or you end up signing him and you get to keep him even longer. Now, do you get why Seattle is going to ask for a King’s ransom?

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

People don’t understand. Fans always overvalue their own prospects and undervalue everyone else. We all do it, some people have enough common sense to understand another persons view point, others… they think players like Fernando Martinez is the top prospect in the universe. Same thing we saw when the Red Sox fans thought that Larry Anderson, a bucket of balls and some pine tar would net them Adrian Gonzalez.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 1 month ago

Keep him, take the 2 draft picks and tell me how they turn out in a few years. Baseball draft picks are far from guarantees. I still don’t know why you think 2 months and 2 draft pics..should get you more value than a season and 2 draft picks…OR a season and a half and 2 Draft picks? This debate will be solved once he’s traded and someone will be shocked.

nictonjr
5 years 1 month ago

When a team has John maine and Ollie Perez waiting to re-join the rotation there isn’t a need to make a trade.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

lol

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

lol

AngryPoster
5 years 1 month ago

Um, so you agree there will be no trade because the M’s want MLB ready players not guys who are 2-3 years away.

Rental Player? aka Ticket to the World Series (post season at least). Plus two top draft picks (aka prospects) when he leaves.

Oh good, I was wrong about F Mart…..he did a “great job” in the Caribeean World Series LOL….and spring training LOL.

Here, put your hands out cause I’m going to toss you a clue……catch it! There is no way the M’s trade Lee for a deal around F Mart…..write it down!

metsman
5 years 1 month ago

I guess I feel for Seattle fan’s this is the most excited you guys have probably been all season and your just pawning off a rental pitcher. You guys talk big like you hold the absolute key to the World series; which explains why you think you are going to get a gaggle of guaranteed game changers for it. there are going to be some disapointed Mariners fans regardless of rather the Mets have anything to do with it or not. by the way to the guy talking about “what Cliff Lee told us” (regards FA) I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

Well this is as close as Seattle fans will ever get to a World Series….talking about how their rental pitcher will help a team get there.

MShowerhead
5 years 1 month ago

Cliff Lee for Meija, FMartinez, and Omir Santos. Throw in another prospect, that’s fine. Mets prospects don’t really have a history of high success, so let’s make the trend work to our advantage! Why Santos over Thole? Because Santos is major league ready. I’m cool with Lee being a rental… our window with Pedro, Wagner, and Delgado closed, so let’s try and do it with Santana, Beltran, Bay, and Frankie while they’re still effective. If we can resign him, great.. I like our future with Lee, Pelfrey, Wright, Reyes, Tejada, and Parnell as a future closer. If not, we could always go after Danny Haren.. he’d do well with our infield!

paulio_male_gigalo
5 years 1 month ago

Here’s my two cents:

M’s thought process: They know they’re not going to contend, but they’re trying to fool potential trade partners into thinking they might still be. Regardless, they can still hold on to him for the two first rounders.

Trade partner thought process: The M’s are definitely not contending, and all they have to do is give a top prospect, and B prospect, and some sort of throw in. If Lee signs with the Yankees sign Lee this offseason (they’re the likely favorites), the M’s are going to get two first rounders from the Yanks. The Yanks are not going to be that high in the first round if they finish the regular season with the best record in baseball, so all the M’s trade partners need to do is offer a package that’s slightly better than two low first rounders.

Point is, F-Mart and a B prospect might actually do the trick.

mets2010champs
5 years 1 month ago

so fmart thole and holt would do it?

mets2010champs
5 years 1 month ago

so fmart thole and holt would do it?

ReverendBlack
5 years 1 month ago

The Ms don’t lose much leverage by waiting to the last minute. Teams like the Mets who desperately need a top starter are going to feel the squeeze.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Clearly you have an absurd value of your prospects. No reason to get insulted that someone doesn’t share the same opinion. Sarcasm is a shield for lack of intelligence.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

As is my opinion, I’ve read scouting report and I’ve seen his minor league statistics. He doesn’t impress me as a headliner in a trade for Cliff Lee. Just because Cleveland didn’t get a great haul nor did Philly doesn’t mean that Seattle is going to take a dive on him just keep trend. It’s completely the opposite.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

…and “people who know what they’re talking about” massively downgraded him heading into this year. He was a mid-30’s to 50’s guy, now he’s in the 70’s…and Thole has never even made a top 100.

Add to that his injury problems and the crap season he’s having this year…he’s just not a centerpiece for a deal like this. I don’t understand why you think he is.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

Also, just a BTW… If you don’t like armchair GMs, perhaps you shouldn’t be on the MLBTR comment sections, considering that most of the ideas given out here are from said armchair GMs, I’ve never heard of Brian Cashman patrolling the comment sections looking for his next big trade idea.

mattmosher
5 years 1 month ago

Let’s try this one more time for the mentally-challenged Mariners fans….

YOU AREN’T GETTING A TOP PROSPECT FOR A RENTAL

Read that over and over until you understand.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

We understand quite well what we can get for him. And if that’s not offered he’s not gonna get traded. Read that over until you understand, read till you understand that we’ll take two draft picks over a trash pile offer. It makes no sense for us to trade him if its not a legit offer just because we should trade him.

bustercherrie
5 years 1 month ago

We understand quite well what we can get for him. And if that’s not offered he’s not gonna get traded. Read that over until you understand, read till you understand that we’ll take two draft picks over a trash pile offer. It makes no sense for us to trade him if its not a legit offer just because we should trade him.