Our list of prospective free agent starters identifies lots of targets for teams looking to fill out their rotations, but there will be many alternatives. That's because some pitchers will be non-tendered and others will become trade targets. Here's a preliminary look at some starters who could be available this offseason, even though they're under team control for 2011.
Trade Candidates
Non-Tender Candidates
Perhaps Shaun Marcum would be on the possible trade list
I would have thought that originally
but cecil, morrow, romero and marcum have become really close, with marcum obviously doing a great job with helping them along. I think atleast for now, he stays.
I agree, originally even though i opposed the idea of him being traded earlier in the season, i don’t think they will trade him now. They are all developing into a real tight knit group that are always together. Marcum is a great competitor, and while he doesn’t have a whole lot more experience than the others, he is a little older and setting a good example for the younger guys in the rotation. Most people also said he would be trade considering the time frame on which the jays could contend, but it seems that they are ahead of that curve and will need him sooner rather than younger pitchers and younger players later
For now, I think he should stay. Our rotation is still young and we still need depth. We don’t know if Stewart and Drabek are fully ready to pitch good enough for the bigs. And I don’t really want Ray or Mills pitching, however I would give Zep a shot to see how well he can do when healthy. He was great in 09 and he’s completely blown up this year. I’d expect him to bounce back next year.
I think we should sign Marcum long-term, a team-friendly contract that is maybe 3 years with a few club options, it would give Marcum more value provided he can stay healthy and continue to pitch well and I’m sure Marcum wouldn’t mind getting some security.
And if Marcum does get dealt next season, it would have to be near the trade deadline.
I would have thought that originally
but cecil, morrow, romero and marcum have become really close, with marcum obviously doing a great job with helping them along. I think atleast for now, he stays.
It’s too bad that Kawakami apparently managed to offend Cox so deeply he would never pitch him in even the most lopsided occasions. Cox never speaks negatively of his players, yet he said of Kawakami’s last start that it was “the worst I’ve ever seen him pitch.” Kawakami must have done something to make Cox angry enough to say something like that about a player.
Too bad too, because Kawakami wasn’t bad for what he was – a #5 starter. It’s not his fault that he had such a terrible record. The Braves offense never scored when he was on the mound, and it’s not really fair to expect your #5 guy to hold any team to 2 runs or less (although apparently many Braves fans expect just that given how apt they were to side with the organization on the Kawakami hostage situation).
Still, maybe some GM out there will see that Kawakami is basically a league average pitcher getting paid like a league average pitcher. Not every team is blessed with the Braves’ pitching depth, so I’m sure he’d be useful to someone.
Kawakami could certainly be worse, but looking at his stats doesn’t tell the whole story. He does a lot of things that drive managers, especially Cox, crazy. He walks the crappy guys in the bottom of the order. He allows tons of lead-off walks. He never defends leads. He works so slowly the defense loses focus. And long innings also allow the opposing pitcher to recharge. Check out Usbaldo’s no-no against the Braves. Kawakami’s mind numbingly slow pace certainly contributed. He isn’t horrible, but it’s always an uphill battle when he is on the mound. And he might not be that bad for a #5 starter, but $7 million a year is a lot to pay for a mediocre #5 starter.
It’s too bad that Kawakami apparently managed to offend Cox so deeply he would never pitch him in even the most lopsided occasions. Cox never speaks negatively of his players, yet he said of Kawakami’s last start that it was “the worst I’ve ever seen him pitch.” Kawakami must have done something to make Cox angry enough to say something like that about a player.
Too bad too, because Kawakami wasn’t bad for what he was – a #5 starter. It’s not his fault that he had such a terrible record. The Braves offense never scored when he was on the mound, and it’s not really fair to expect your #5 guy to hold any team to 2 runs or less (although apparently many Braves fans expect just that given how apt they were to side with the organization on the Kawakami hostage situation).
Still, maybe some GM out there will see that Kawakami is basically a league average pitcher getting paid like a league average pitcher. Not every team is blessed with the Braves’ pitching depth, so I’m sure he’d be useful to someone.
I have trouble seeing some of those players actually being traded.
I have trouble seeing some of those players actually being traded.
Though I’m a James Loney fan…
How about Matt Garza for James Loney?
Doesn’t make much sense for the Rays. They would trade Garza to save money…Loney made $3.1M this year.
Plus, Loney has had 3 straight years of sub-.800 OPS seaons from the 1B spot. Maybe getting out of the NL West would help, but the Rays could do better for Garza who still has 3 years of contrallability left (believe Loney only has 2).
Plus there are about 10 decent free agent first basemen on the market this season, no need to trade pitching when they can probably keep Carlos Pena or go for someone like Derek Lee.
Rays won’t have the money to keep Pena or go for Lee. It’s not about available players with the Rays, it’s all about payroll. Reports are it’s going to drop dramatically this winter.
Rays won’t have the money to keep Pena or go for Lee. It’s not about available players with the Rays, it’s all about payroll. Reports are it’s going to drop dramatically this winter.
Rays have plenty of what a team need sto stay competitive, starting pitching. What they won’t be able to replace is Pena, Crawford and Soriano. Since they can’t spend big in free agency, the only alternative is to move either Garza or Shields and get hitting or a closer in return. Sheids will go eventually because his contract is beginning to escalate beyond their means. Garza has more upside, IMO and can still be offered arbitration for 2 more seasons(not the big bucks yet). Rays have Hellickson ready to step in in 2011, so I have to think one of them is gone in a major trade this winter.
Double check your figures. Garza is more expensive this year and will probably be more expensive next year after arbitration.
In addition, there is a reasonable line of argument that Shields is the better pitcher. Check this link:
theprocessreport.com/2010/09/10/i-would-trade-matt…
How ’bout the Rays trade Shields and Garza to the Pirates for Garrett Jones, Ryan Doumit, and Joel Hanrahan? Jones won’t have the power of Pena, but will hit for a better average and can play 1B, RF, or DH. Doumit is serviceable at C, 1B, and RF and could DH since he’s got some pop in his bat. Hanrahan has taken over the closer duties since the Bucs traded Dotel and hasn’t been horrible. It’s probably an outrageous deal, but it would be nice to see the Bucs get quality pitchers like Garza and/or Shields instead of running pitchers like Zach Duke to the mound every fifth day.
Absolutely horrible deal for the Rays. Trading not one but TWO #2/3 guys for a backup catcher, a reliever who will be arbitration eligible this winter, and a 1B/OF who will turn 30 next year and has an OPS of .717?!?!?
That may be the worst trade proposal I have ever seen in my life.
Obviously you don’t read enough from Yankee and Red Sox fans…lol
Major fail.
Doesn’t make sense for the Pirates. They aren’t going to want to add payroll to bulk up a team that is several years away from competing. Shields and Garza will be gone via free agency before their young team has become competitive.
Just an FYI…
Matt Garza is under team control through 2013 at least (still has 3 more arbitration years left after this season).
James Shields is signed through 2014 (with his team options).
I mean, any player likely will be gone by the time the Pirates are competive…..but these guys have as good a chance as any.
I mean, Alvarez is only technically guranteed to be around til 2016 so not like he’s around much longer than Shields.
Trading for Shields would make a TON of sense for the Pirates……but I don’t see them coughing up the prospects needed and their current players (minus their young studs who aren’t being traded) just plain aren’t going to get you a pitcher like Shields (or Garza).
Just an FYI…
Matt Garza is under team control through 2013 at least (still has 3 more arbitration years left after this season).
James Shields is signed through 2014 (with his team options).
I mean, any player likely will be gone by the time the Pirates are competive…..but these guys have as good a chance as any.
I mean, Alvarez is only technically guranteed to be around til 2016 so not like he’s around much longer than Shields.
Trading for Shields would make a TON of sense for the Pirates……but I don’t see them coughing up the prospects needed and their current players (minus their young studs who aren’t being traded) just plain aren’t going to get you a pitcher like Shields (or Garza).
That should have read Shields or Garza, not and. I would think Garrett Jones and Evan Meek would be sufficient for Shield’s service.
Not even close again.
Garrett Jones has a freakin .717 OPS! He’s 30 and will turn 31 during the 2011 season. Meek is a nice reliever but him and a so-so 1B/OF are NOT worth a pitcher of Shields’ caliber. Cough up 2 of your top 5 prospects and maybe, just maybe you could get him.
Not even close again.
Garrett Jones has a freakin .717 OPS! He’s 30 and will turn 31 during the 2011 season. Meek is a nice reliever but him and a so-so 1B/OF are NOT worth a pitcher of Shields’ caliber. Cough up 2 of your top 5 prospects and maybe, just maybe you could get him.
That should have read Shields or Garza, not and. I would think Garrett Jones and Evan Meek would be sufficient for Shield’s service.
Since the list seems to be of players that teams will shop, notwithstanding the likelihood of a willing buyer — e.g. Zambrano, Lowe, Kawakami — perhaps Matsuzaka could be added?
I could see dice-k being traded.the twins,mets,dodgers,tigers,brewers all could use him.
The Mets love big names, the Dodgers love Japanese pitchers, and the Tigers have tons of payroll coming off the books so he could be a good fit on any of those teams.
Of the non-tender group, the guy who interests me as a Brewer fan is Brandon McCarthy. This is a guy who when he’s been healthy (rarely as it’s been) had posted decent numbers pitching in hitters parks in Chicago and Texas against AL lineups. At just 27, if he could ever stay healthy, he seems capable of solid numbers in the NL and could be a bargain worth pursuing as a potential 4th starter in the Brewer rotation.
Don’t forget Javier Vázquez, with his huge contract and his constant decrease in velocity over the past 4-5 years, it’s more than likely the Yankees will not offer him arbitration.
“Potential Alternatives To Free Agent Starters”
If the yankees don’t offer him arbitration he becomes free agent, so yep, he is a potential (as in HE COULD BE) alternative to a free agent starter (beause he is no reliever even if he has been used a few times in his career).
Dude, Vazquez is NOT an alternative to a free agent starter…he IS a free agent starter. Whether he’s offered arbitration or not is irrelevant here. He is a free agent when the season is up, which is why he’s not listed here nor does he belong in the dicussions. there’s a “starting pitcher” thread for that.
Dude… if he is a free agent THEN he is an alternative, right?
He is a potential free agent, why? because the NYY could offer him arbitration in hopes he declines it, so they can get a player from the team that signs him, right?
BUT if he accepts arbitration, he won’t be a FA anymore. That just to show you how “irrelevant” is if he’s ‘offered arbitration’.
He is not a de-facto free agent, that’s something you got to take into account. That’s what POTENTIAL means, semantics Hermie, semantics.
With a season as deplorable and mediocre as he’s having, nobody knows what will go around Vázquez mind come that time of the season (besides thinking on how bad he has been all his career versus teams with a winning percentage) and whether he’ll accept it or refuse it.
Horrible logic.
The fact you don’t share my point of view doesn’t make it “horrible logic”, it just goes to show you that you didn’t know nor can understand how logic works.
No, he is a 100% free agent this winter. If he accepts arbitration then re-signs with the Yanks (arbitration is not 100% guaranteed) then he will NO LONGER be a free agent. But he is, in fact a free agent.
Bottom line, if he’s not offered arbry, he’s a free agent. If he is offered, he is STILL a free agent.
Just depends if HE CHOOSES to stay in NY or not. Doesn’t change the fact that he is a free agent and why he’s not an alternative to a free agent.
Not sure why you don’t understand this, but an “alternative” to a free agent is someone who is under contract with another team and may be available in a trade.
If you start counting guys who have almost no chance of being offered arby as trade candidates/alternatives….then there are apparently zero free agents this winter. good grief
Nope, you fail to understand the intrincacies of it all, he is not a free agent UNTIL he declines arbitration, nobody can offer a free agent arbitration.
A free agent is that, a player who is free to negotiate with anybody, while players offered arbitration have a window to negotiate exclusively with the team they last played with.
Javier will not be eligible to negotiate with anybody UNTIL NYY opts not to offer him arbitration OR he declines the offer (if there is one).
Lol’ers.
Deplorable? Really? The guy isn’t committing genocide. He isn’t exposing himself to school children. For crying out loud. He’s an athlete. He throws a ball for your entertainment. You NY fans are freakin nuts.
Vasquez only makes $11 million or so a year, that isn’t huge. Also, his velocity was just fine pitching in Atlanta last season, it has only decreased since he rejoined the Yankees. But you are right, the only reason I could see them offering arbitration is because they know Javy doesn’t love pitching there and probably wants to leave for greener pastures.
$11M is a TON for a #2/3 (at best) starting pitcher for most teams though. So it is huge.
I disagree somewhat on Vazquez accepting arby. If offered, I think he accepts. As said, he’s making a TON of money this year. Minimum he’ll get offered is 80% of that. He won’t get that on the open market. Odds are the Yanks won’t offer…but if they do and he accepts (likely) then they could always deal him to a team as I can’t see the Yanks keeping him around again. That or cut him in March as arby is non-guaranteed (see Varitek 2 years ago).
Agree somewhat on your critique of Vazquez. He needs to go back to the NL. He’s an NL pitcher, period. It’s so much easier pitching in the NL with the pitcher coming up 2 or 3 times a game versus a DH.
$11M is a TON for a #2/3 (at best) starting pitcher for most teams though. So it is huge.
I disagree somewhat on Vazquez accepting arby. If offered, I think he accepts. As said, he’s making a TON of money this year. Minimum he’ll get offered is 80% of that. He won’t get that on the open market. Odds are the Yanks won’t offer…but if they do and he accepts (likely) then they could always deal him to a team as I can’t see the Yanks keeping him around again. That or cut him in March as arby is non-guaranteed (see Varitek 2 years ago).
Agree somewhat on your critique of Vazquez. He needs to go back to the NL. He’s an NL pitcher, period. It’s so much easier pitching in the NL with the pitcher coming up 2 or 3 times a game versus a DH.
James Shields is a piece of crap. He’s allowing more and more hits every year, along with HRs. And he’s having an awful year this season.
So you’d rather give up James Shields than Matt Garza? Matt Garza is more expensive, and should net in a nicer return than Shields, though both would net in nice returns.
So you’d rather give up James Shields than Matt Garza? Matt Garza is more expensive, and should net in a nicer return than Shields, though both would net in nice returns.
This is misleading and to some extent untrue. His home run rate is higher this year than in the past, and went up slightly from 2008-09, but otherwise the trend was not up. He has also given up more hits/IP than usual this year, but again that trend is only 2 years old.
In addition, he has maintained his low BB rate while improving his K rate rather significantly. He is not having an awful season; he is having a somewhat erratic one and a somewhat unlucky one, but he remains a solid mid-rotation starter with the real potential to return to his norms.
In any case, calling him a “piece of crap” is nasty and untrue.
This is misleading and to some extent untrue. His home run rate is higher this year than in the past, and went up slightly from 2008-09, but otherwise the trend was not up. He has also given up more hits/IP than usual this year, but again that trend is only 2 years old.
In addition, he has maintained his low BB rate while improving his K rate rather significantly. He is not having an awful season; he is having a somewhat erratic one and a somewhat unlucky one, but he remains a solid mid-rotation starter with the real potential to return to his norms.
In any case, calling him a “piece of crap” is nasty and untrue.
Yeah, James Shields is definitely not a piece of crap. He’s been very unlucky this year.
His BABIP against is .344. That’s very high for this late in the year.
His FIP is also 4.32 (over half run lower than his ERA), and his xFIP is 3.71, which is one of the better ones in the league.
Still has a very good K/BB rate as well. Pitchign more like a #3 this year than the FOR guy he looked like in 2008.
As a true rays fan for over 9 years and all the yrs of losing i say trade shields i dont care what garza would cost you can have a great rotation with garza niemann price davis and hellickson with moore and mcgee waiting in the wings.they have to build from somewhere to go with longoria upton ruiz jaso joyce brignac zobrist ect.and the blue jays should not trade marcum in the al east above anything else you need a good rotation a nice offense helps but you need to keep these guys to compete with boston and new york in the long run.as a side note anyone know of a city for the rays to go that would generate better revenue thats in the east coast tampa isnt really a city for a mlb team more of a retirement type of city
the rays aren’t in tampa. they are in (south) st. pete. and st pete is a laid back beach type city.
and Tampa isnt much of a retirement town… usf, ybor, channelside, theres plenty of ‘younger’ things going on. the rays tv ratings are doing well – hence they have fans.
A decent ballpark in South Tampa, and any sort of mass transit and they would do much better.
The fact that the Rays are able to make both Shields and Garza potentially available because of their pitching prospects’ development is downright terrifying. If Hellickson and Moore only reach half of their respective potentials, Tampa Bay will have the best rotation in baseball.
Does nobody think that Montero could still develop to become at the very least a serviceable catcher?? Let him stay in the minors another yr while Posada’s contract runs out and go from there. Just curious, is there any chance the Yanks inquire on Greinke? With all the catching prospects and the young pitchers in the minors, i’m sure they can make a good offer for him. Would do that instead of going after Lee and use the money saved in other areas of need like the bullpen and maybe even closing prospects because Mariano is not getting any younger!
Think KC would move Greinke for montero, Brett Gardner, 2 more prospects? Then the Yanks sign Crawford or werth for left?
If someone will take him and his bloated contract, AJ Burnett is a free-agent alternative. “Brunette” has been brutal this year!