Free Agent Stock Watch: Cliff Lee

It's not often that a bonafide ace hits the free agent market, but when one does it often leads to a feeding frenzy of big market clubs and mystery teams. Current Rangers ace and former Cy Young Award winner Cliff Lee is arguably the best pitcher in baseball, and in a few weeks he will be able to offer his services to the highest bidder on the open market for the first time in his career.

Lee's credentials are undeniable, but teams must still weigh the good against the bad when preparing to offer anyone a contract of this magnitude. Let's break it down…

The Good

  • Lee is a proven workhorse, logging 667.1 innings over the last three seasons. He's thrown at least 200 innings in five of the last six years and made at least 28 starts in six of the last seven years.
  • If you're a believer in WAR, Lee's +20.8 mark since 2008 is second only to Roy Halladay's +21.5 among all pitchers.
  • He's proven himself in the American League, so there won't be any adjustment period as far as that is concerned.
  • Lee's command is off-the-charts, evidenced by a 0.8 BB/9 this season. He also set a new single season record with a 10.28 K/BB ratio (min. 150 innings).
  • Although he mixes in a curveball, Lee is primarily a fastball-cutter-changeup pitcher without huge velocity. As Andy Pettitte and Jamie Moyer have shown, lefthanders with that arsenal can pitch forever as long as they have their health. 

The Bad

  • Lee is on the wrong side of 30, having turned 32 just over a month ago.
  • He battled some back issues last month, and has a history of oblique trouble dating back to 2003. His arm has been relatively free of injury, however.
  • As a Type-A free agent certain to be offered arbitration, any team except Texas will have to forfeit a high draft to sign him.
  • The Yankees have long had interest in Lee (they almost acquired him this summer), and if they get involved in the bidding it would make life very difficult for everyone else.

The Verdict

Despite the back issues, Lee is certain to become one of the two or three highest paid pitchers in baseball in the coming months. Every team would love to be able to add him to their staff, but it's only economically feasible for a handful. The Yankees have a leg up on everyone else not just because they can offer the most money, but also because Lee is close with CC Sabathia from their Cleveland days. 

That said, the Rangers just signed a lucrative television deal that enables them to make a competitive offer, and we'd be foolish to rule out traditional big spenders like the Mets, Red Sox, Angels, and Tigers (regardless of what they've said). Even the Orioles and Nationals have shown a willingness to go big game hunting on the free agent market recently, so don't be surprised if they get involved as well. 

Lee might not be able to secure a seven-year, $161MM deal like Sabathia since he's three years older than CC was when he hit the market, but $20MM annually for five years seems like nothing more than a starting point. 


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113 Comments on "Free Agent Stock Watch: Cliff Lee"


jaydestro
4 years 9 months ago

HERP A DERP YANKEES

4 years 9 months ago

You’re not funny…

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah for real. He is pretty much already a Yankee.

4 years 9 months ago

I mostly want him on the Yankees so we never have to face him in the playoffs again. That was rough. But we don’t really have the best track record when it comes to “can’t miss” big money pitching we haven’t drafted lately (Pavano, Johnson, AJ, Farnsworth, etc, etc).

4 years 9 months ago

CC?

4 years 9 months ago

Even if you toss in CC with the other 4, thats 1 out of 5 and I still call that a bad track record. Let me toss in Jeff Weaver and Javy Vasquez, thats 1 out of 7, or 1 out of 8 if you consider that the Yankees made the mistake on Vasquez not once, but twice.

4 years 9 months ago

The Yankees are going to be in need of starting pitching next season, they also like to pick up pitchers who have beat them in the past, especially if it happens in a big spot. I’d say there’s a 95% chance Lee is the number 2 starter behind Sabathia next year. That goes up to 99% if the Yankees don’t win it all this year.

4 years 9 months ago

I would think Lee would be the number 1 ahead of CC

4 years 9 months ago

Sure, just as long it doesen’t ruin a possibility of Betances and Banuelos making the rotation in the future. We will probably have to trade AJB to do that.

4 years 9 months ago

If the choice is Lee or Banuelos/Betances, the answer is always Lee. Always. And I like those two prospects.

4 years 9 months ago

Well of course, but I definetly want Manny B, and Dellin to pitch for us in the future. They, along with Hughes, have a tremendous upside.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Hughes when he was pitching around low to mid 3s ERA is about his upside. He won’t be an ace but he is a good #2-#3 guy.

4 years 9 months ago

When he’s on he’s a 2.70 ERA pitcher. Or at least that’s what his first half ERA was, when he didn’t even have to worry about an innings limit. I never even said he was an ace, just said he has tremendous upside along with Manny B, and Betances

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Having seen Betances pitch, I can tell yout that he is definetly a top 10 pitching prospect in Baseball and he is exactly the same pitcher as King Felix, Banuelos on the other hand, is very small, but can throw hard but I’m still not sure if he’s a sure thing. I do think though that Betances will be a very good pitcher and a future rotation of Lee, Sabathia, and Betances will be nasty.

What I’m saying is that Henry shouldn’t worry because number 1, Betances and Lee will be in the rotation together as early as next season…And number two, if Greinke becomes really available, Betances might not even be a Yankee…

4 years 9 months ago

Man you just love making me nervous. Grienkie should stay with the Royals, a small market team because of his anxiety disorder. Besides he would blow up in NY.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Everyone says that but no one knows for sure is the truth. I personally don’t think its a forgone conclusion that he won’t succeed. But if he pitches really well next April may and June, the Royals will try to nab Betances and Montero.

4 years 9 months ago

Doubt it. I read in a New York poster that the Yankees, in a deal for Lee, Montero was the centerpiece. Seattle also asked for Betances, but the Yankees balked at including him in any deal. If they wouldn’t trade him for Lee, why would they trade him for Grienkie? And The Royals also did not want Montero for even Soria.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Because Lee was 2 months away from free agency. Greinke is currently 2 years

4 years 9 months ago

Either way I hope Cashman isn’t stupid enough to trade them both. No disrispect to Grienkie, he’s a great pitcher, but he would never succeed in NY.

4 years 9 months ago

It’s “Greinke” not “Grienkie.”

vtadave
4 years 9 months ago

I like Betances too, but let’s not get carried away. Felix Hernandez was posting a sub-3.00 ERA in the big leagues at age 19. Betances is 22 and has three starts above A-ball.

4 years 9 months ago

No, his delivery is King Felix-like. And he shows he can be as dominant as him in the future.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

He shows that he has the raw potential to. He has a lot to work on to get anywhere near Felix.Edit: Pretty much what I’m trying to accentuate is that fact that so many A pitchers get labeled with that future #1 starter label yet very few of them get anywhere close. Guys like Betances have a high ceiling and an equally low floor. Before this season there was even a chance he wouldn’t even reach the bigs and now he is Felix? You are looking at his absolute ceiling. But as these prospects go up the levels and scouts see how they do vs better competition the ceiling normally drops. Right now saying he is Felix is purely potential. By the time he gets to AAA it won’t be as much of a projection.Take Lars Anderson as an example. In Single-A he was the next Justin Morneau. Right now he isn’t close to that. 99% of prospects don’t reach their absolute ceiling. And btw, Lars Anderson’s current MLB comparison is Adam Laroche. Far cry from the Morneau he was predicted to be in the low minors.

4 years 9 months ago

It’d be awsome if he can pitch like Felix someday. The ceiling of prospects as they rise through the ranks do tend to drop. But he has raw potential, and he has only pitched half a season at Double-A. He’ll start the season next year at Double-A, and if he does well, he’ll definetly be moved up.

But from here on, I practically have to pray that Cashman doesent trade him, he trades somany prospects it’s not funny, and it’s really pissin me off, no disrispect.

kingcorran
4 years 9 months ago

Baloney. NY prospect hype machine nonsense. Betances is an excellent prospect, but he’s nothing like Felix Hernandez.

Pick a sane comparison if you want someone to take you seriously.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

It isn’t even a hype machine. It is basic knowledge of how scouting players works. Single-A players are given generous ceilings due to potential and as they move up the ladder their ceiling drops most of the time because scouts are given time to see how they have matured and what they have improved on. To take Single-A projections of players seriously is the mistake, not in the scouting of teams.

4 years 9 months ago

I think you are missing kingcorran’s point. Felix H. could be the best pitcher of his generation. He is special in terms of how young he was when he started pitching successfully in the majors. His numbers already at the age of 24 are quite special (minus the wins…which is a shame). Comparing a 22-year old prospect (who has barely pitched at AA) to that seems like a bit of a stretch. Sure maybe he has some dominant stuff, and sure maybe he will have some Felix like seasons at some point, but we need to be careful that our comparisons don’t reach beyond that, otherwise we start sounding like Scott Boras.

4 years 9 months ago

I said Betances’ delivery was King Felix-like. I also said he shows FLASHES of being dominant like him. I was not in any way comparing him to Felix, and it certainly is gonna take alot of work if Betances is gonna pitch at the level Felix is now.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 9 months ago

chances Greinke becomes a Yankee is a guranteed 0%

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Bet you 20 dollars that its not 0

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 9 months ago

No one is dumb enough to even consider trading for Burnett even if the Yankees were to pick up his contract, the dude is way overrated

4 years 9 months ago

I’m sure if the yankees picked up much of his contract that many many teams would take a chance on Burnett.

4 years 9 months ago

Phillies are going to sign him.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

not really.

vtadave
4 years 9 months ago

Thanks for that analysis. So the Phillies have all this extra money after taking on Oswalt’s $16 million a year and giving Ryan Howard that ridiculous extension?

nictonjr
4 years 9 months ago

The Astros are donating $7 mil to the Roy Oswalt fund…

MSUcorner
4 years 9 months ago

Twins. Well, it would be nice to pony up the cash, but at his age? I know we need an ace … I am so on the shelf about this.

4 years 9 months ago

Francisco Liriano says hi.

4 years 9 months ago

Francisco Liriano says hi.

4 years 9 months ago

Oh I wish my Tigers would change their minds and sign him, just so I can watch all the Indian fans cry whenever we face them.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

It makes me cringe to hear that 5 yrs 100 mil may be a starting point. I might go to a 6th year…maybe. Most likely after a few beers. But if they Yankees swoop in w/ like a 7 yr 150 mil deal, you can have him. And the Rangers can chase after Grienke or someone

4 years 9 months ago

Oof, please don’t sign him for seven years.

Signed,
Zen Baseball Yankee Fan

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Not even the Yankees will give him 7 years. 5 max.

4 years 9 months ago

After dealing Smoak for him, the Rangers pretty much have to sign him long-term.

4 years 9 months ago

Well the Rangers have Mitch Moreland who’s a pretty good prospect. He’s, I guess, now gonna be their future first baseman.

4 years 9 months ago

No doubt, I love Mitch Moreland as a prospect but having both Smoak and Moreland on the team next year would have let the Rangers put Hamilton where he obviously belongs: at DH. His body can’t hold up to the wear and tear of being an everyday outfielder, he needs to be a full-time DH in the very near future.

4 years 9 months ago

Of course he has durability issues, but he got injured because he made a great play in CF, but then crashed into the wall, which really was just an accident(though not really, the wall was right there). I don’t think he wants to be a DH, and if I was the Rangers, I’d give him another chance to play the OF, but if he gets injured again, move him to the DH role.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

This Yankee team is very well put together position wise and Lee is the most obvious need. For the most part, the organization has gotten ripped for not being deep but the fact is that they have some really nice prospects. I would say that Lee really solidifies the rotation and if Pettite were to retire a rotation of Sabathia, Lee, Burnett, Hughes and Nova isn’t a bad look. With David Pehelps, Noesi and DJ Mitchell @ AAA next year, Warren, Banuelos, Betances and Brackman @ AA and a bunch of young power arms in single and low A the organizational depth w/ starting pitching is pretty strong.

I would start off by offering Lee a 4/$90 mil deal. That’s slightly less than CC’s average but I think very fair. I would also pick up Wood’s option even if he might be a tad overpaid for a 8th inning guy. It’s been so hard to find a dependable guy for the back end that I wouldn’t let money get in the way of retaining the best option we’ve had. I would definetly stay away from declining the option and then trying to sign him to a multi year deal though. I’d rather overpay for 1 year vs being tied to him for 2 or more.

4 years 9 months ago

You know some other priorities? Catcher. Now I’m just putting something out there, and it of course is a subject of debate.Sign Ramon Hernandez. He’s a very solid catcher, and he was good with the Reds this year. He led all FA backstops in OBP, and he would fit right in with the Yanks becuase they led the MLB in the category. He also has some pop left in his bat, and I think he could probably hit 10+ HR in Yankee Stadium. He would be a huge upgrade over Cerv too. I’m also completely tired and fed up with Girardi putting Posada-Cervelli out there to catch. Cervelli can block balls in the dirt, but he can’t do much else. Posada is dowsnright terrible at the position. Hernandez also I’m pretty sure, has a pretty good arm, better than Cerv and Posada combined. And it would also be a better platoon partner if Montero came up(which he should). Posada @ Catcher – 2-3 days per weekFA pickup/Hernandez/Jesus Montero @ DH for the days posada catchesHernandez/Montero @ Catcher everyother dayPosada @ DH when Hernandez catches.

drumzalicious
4 years 9 months ago

Any team that gives a 32 year old Lee a 5/100 contract is foolish regardless of how big their need is. This is a situation in my opinion where the Yankees should let someone else be the over paying party. They need to say 3/75 or 4/80 in a take it or leave it manner and let the Rangers/Angels/random team be the team to pay him 5/100.

4 years 9 months ago

Lee won’t take three years, he probably wouldn’t even take 4 years. This is his last big payday, and he is going to ride it out hard. I would be surprised if he signed for anything less than 5 years, 6 is more likely. He can pretty much set his own demands because there will be enough buyers.

O971
4 years 9 months ago

Hard to see him getting 5 years. 3/70 or 4/90 seem more likely. I just don’t think there a large enough group of teams that can afford him which might keep his price down. The only “big market” team other than the Yankees that I could see making a run at him is the Angels. I’d love to see him stay in Texas, but I’m not sure they can bid with the Yankees.

mattmosher
4 years 9 months ago

I am praying the Yankees sign Lee. The more future albatrosses for them, the better as far as I’m concerned. They already have one with AJ and will soon have two more with King Jeter and an aging A-Roid.

4 years 9 months ago

Funny how people are calling Jeter an albatross contract. He is one of the greatest shortstops to ever play the game, and never really had a bad season prior to this. I don’t think Jeter has that big of an ego to want that much money. Besides he finished the season strong. I say he comes back better next year.

4 years 9 months ago

No way he comes back better.

4 years 9 months ago

I think he will.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

If he had a big enough ego to refuse to move over to second or third to make room for a vastly superior defensive shortstop, he’s got a big enough ego to take the Yankees for as much as he can on his last contract.

4 years 9 months ago

Wait, why move to 2nd? They have a gold-glove caliber 2Ber. Jeter should have moved to third when they first brought A-rod in.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

One: Cano is only a gold glover in the manner that Jeter is a gold glover, that being that the people who vote on it are morons and usually base it off name recognition alone. He is a league average defender on his best day, on his worst he’s been terrible.

Two: Cano did not come up until 2005, A-Rod was signed and moved to third in favor of Jeter (Who was always a significantly better SS than Jeter) 2004.

4 years 9 months ago

You’re pretty dumb man. Robinson Cano has had only 3 errors this season. He’s vastly improved his range, he has probably the best throwing arm of any second baseman in the league, and wether he’s charging the ball or going to his right and throwing it, he looks completely calm and concentrated. You could probably say what you did about him in 2008, and prior to that, but he’s gotten better and better after that horrible 2008.

Besides Jeter didn’t have a great defensive year anyway, so your logic is completely baseless.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

I find it ironic I’m being called dumb by a guy basing his entire argument off of errors alone. Let me guess, you think the Ryan Howard contract was a wise move “because he puts up like tons of RBI, yo!” Additionally, would I be accurate in assuming you think Felix Hernandez is not a Cy Young candidate because of his win totals?

UZR is a far superior metric and it says pretty plainly that he’s league average.

As for the Jeter detail, that one clearly went way over your head. My point was that Jeter has NEVER had a great defensive year, yet he’s got, what, three or four gold gloves? My point was that Robinson Cano may have made significant strides in improving his defense, but he’s still far from an elite defender and that the only way he could be considered a “gold glover caliber” defender is by operating under the fact that gold gloves are usually given out to guys based on name recognition rather than whether or not they’re actually any good at defense.

4 years 9 months ago

UZR is pretty flawed in the infield. It’s more of an OF type of category to judge defense.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

I have never read anywhere that UZR is flawed for IF. I know it is for Catchers for obvious reasons but I have haven’t never seen it called flawed in judging IFers. And even if it is he still has a -.06 hard to be that off if you are saying he should be a 10+ UZR guy

4 years 9 months ago

UZR is pretty flawed in the infield. It’s more of an OF type of category to judge defense.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Cano isn’t a good defensive player. He is barely league average. Just because he can can make a Jeter jump throw and get guys out with his strong arm doesn’t mean he has good range. You can take stuff like that at face value. For all we know Cano could make a diving stop that another 2B could have gotten standing. Defense is so hard to judge without pouring over tape. You can’t scout a guy’s defensive skill from a live game, you can determine strong arm or first step but for the most part you can’t figure out their range or overall skill.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Cano isn’t a good defensive player. He is barely league average. Just because he can can make a Jeter jump throw and get guys out with his strong arm doesn’t mean he has good range. You can take stuff like that at face value. For all we know Cano could make a diving stop that another 2B could have gotten standing. Defense is so hard to judge without pouring over tape. You can’t scout a guy’s defensive skill from a live game, you can determine strong arm or first step but for the most part you can’t figure out their range or overall skill.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 9 months ago

the a-roid monkier is really old

4 years 9 months ago

Get used to it, he will have it for life.

4 years 9 months ago

Just ignore it, you can’t stop people from saying it

4 years 9 months ago

Just ignore it, you can’t stop people from saying it

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Agreed. I just generally assume anyone who says A-Roid, Papelbum, or anthing else has no clue about baseball.

jwredsox
4 years 9 months ago

Agreed. I just generally assume anyone who says A-Roid, Papelbum, or anthing else has no clue about baseball.

4 years 9 months ago

I am not worried about it. I don’t think the Yankees would have a problem paying AJ to pitch in AAA or ride the bench if that is what is best for the team. It is only $$ and if you have seen the new Stadium and ratings for YES you should realize that $$ is the least of the Yankees concerns.

Steve_in_MA
4 years 9 months ago

BoSox will NOT be making an offer here and expect him to go to the Yanks. We do not need pitching, the Yanks do, and this will probably be the Yanks “sole focus” in the FA market. I don’t see anybody coming between them and their desire for a second dominant left hander (expecting Pettitte to retire after the season).

Steve_in_MA
4 years 9 months ago

That said, I think the Sox will have little to no competition for Carl Crawford. With the Yanks focused on Lee and the Angels probably signing Beltre, we’d be in line to sign the third highest available FA.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

I read somewhere (maybe hear) that Texas just signed their own local TV deal which was going to give them an extra $65 mil or so each year. That could allow them to spend with the big dawgs this year. However, I’m not sure that Lee wants to stay in Texas. Other than the Yanks and Texas I don’t see any other team out there with the obvious need and ability to spend $22+ mil on a SP.

Right now, of the big market teams the…

Angels have $45 mil (before arbitration) tiep up in Haren ($13), Kazmir ($12), Pinero ($8), Santana ($8) and Weaver ($4.5 before arb). Can’t see them going out of their way to sign Lee.

Dodgers need a front end guy but I doubt they’ll spend anywhere near what Lee will command considering the divorce situation.

Mariners have the money and the need but they already did that dance with Lee and I doubt Lee wants a repeat. Also, I think Lee see how out of whack King Felix’s record was despite being the best pitcher in baseball. Lee wants to win and I doubt that would happen in Seattle.

Mets have a need but I think Lee can see the disfunction and transition that’s undergoing.

Phillies. Can’t see him returning considering the circumstances in which he left and what was said. Also, they have Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels, Blanton and Kendrick locked in for $46 mil (incl the money from the Astros).

Red Sox are set with Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Dice K and Buccholz totalling about $49 mil.

The Tigers represent a legit possibility as they have about $70 mil coming off the books from payments for Dontrelle WIllis and Nate Robertson concluding and letting Ordonez, Bonderman, Damon, Inge, Peralta, Laird and others walk. They have a glaring need for another front end guy. Lee would be perfect for that ballpark, is familiar with the AL Central and can turn the Tigers into a real conteder in a weak division.

White Sox are set with $47 mil invested in Peavy, Buerhle, Jackson, Floyd and Danks.

So that leaves it at the Rangers, Yanks, Tigers and Mets as serious shoppers.

Some might see Lee as a luxury for the Yanks but I see him as a “must have”. CC is a solid #1 and I think Hughes will be a good front-mid rotation guy but he’s still got a lot to learn. Pettite is getting older and we simply can’t expect him to be a sub 4.00 pitcher next year and AJ…well….is AJ. Whatever you can get out of him is gravy. Lee solidifies the staff and allows us to to take a chance with a kid like Nova if Pettite decides to retire.

As for the albatross comment. The Yanks are not the Marlins and have shown the ability to absorb huge and bad contracts before with guys like Pavano, Giambi, etc and they didn’t provent us from making improvements. However, the Yanks “should” be able to save $5-9$ mil from new and reduced contracts for Mo and Jeter, have another $17 mil coming off from Vazquez and Nick Johnson, and if Pettite retires, another $11.5 mil. There really aren’t any other major needs as we’re pretty set in the field and I think the Yanks will pass on Werth and Crawford.

$3081341
4 years 9 months ago

I’d also add the Twins into the mix as well. Don’t forget, they were interested in trading for’em at the deadline. They’d have to raise payroll of course but imagine a 1-2 of Lee & Liriano to go with the dynamic duo of Morneau & Mauer. Can you say darkhorse.

4 years 9 months ago

I agree, wouldn’t surprise me at all to the the Tigers go hard after Lee

4 years 9 months ago

Except they just recently stated (explicitly) that they do not intend to participate in the Lee sweepstakes.

4 years 9 months ago

Baseball playing second fiddle to football … and sliding in the ratings on an annual basis … should hardly be a surprise since Type A players like Lee are linked to the usual suspects (read: the Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers, Mets, Dodgers, and Phillies) … and almost always reeled in by these usual suspects … every. season.

Mdey
4 years 9 months ago

If the Yankees get him, it could be 3/60 or 4/80. I don’t think it’s going to come to that. I think he signs somewhere else, a 4 year or maybe 5 year deal at about 15-16 million a year.

4 years 9 months ago

You’re kidding right? He’s going to get much more than that.

4 years 9 months ago

I agree, 5/$100M as mentioned in the article as the starting point seems about right, and it could go as high as $120M. The other thing is, Lee said earlier this year that wherever he signs they are going to have to give him a no trade clause.

invader3k
4 years 9 months ago

Must feel really good to be an Indians fan these days.

4 years 9 months ago

” Cliff Lee is arguably the best pitcher in baseball”

?? That seems like a bit of a stretch….I don’t think he’d make my top 5…..I’d probably have him behind Lincecum, Halladay, King Felix, Sabathia, Wainwright, Carpenter…….not sure I’d put him ahead of Verlander, Josh Johnson, Lester, Jiminez

4 years 9 months ago

Lincecum, Halladay, King Felix, ^ Lee^, Sabathia, Wainwright, Carpenter.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

“not sure I’d put him ahead of Verlander, Josh Johnson, Lester, Jiminez”

Verlander – yes, JJ – Yes, Lester – Yes, and HELL YES. Hes better than them for now.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if he regresses real quick like.

4 years 9 months ago

1.) King Felix
2.) Roy Halladay
3.) Justin Verlander
4.) Jon Lester
5.) Tim Lincecum
6.) David Price
7.) CC Sabathia
8.) Adam Wainwright
9.) Josh Johnson
10.) Zack Grienke(He’s still a 5 WAR pitcher)

That’s your list without Lee.

Cue the “CC should not be in front of him, or CC shouldn’t be up there” comments. If someone here said Robinson Cano is an average defender, someone else is bound to deflate players value for no apparent reason.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

Because statistics account for nothing when put up against the unfailing argument of “I seen it with me own two eyes!”

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

I have no idea how those 10 pitchers are all better but I shall take your word.

4 years 9 months ago

King Felix is better than Lee.

BigBangBoom
4 years 9 months ago

i like how you point to WAR grienke and ignore the face Cliff lee has been a 6-7 WAR pitcher since he reinvented himself after being sent down to the minors. And as the article say that’s the best for any pitcher not named halladay (who is older than Cliff Lee)

BigBangBoom
4 years 9 months ago

i like how you point to WAR grienke and ignore the face Cliff lee has been a 6-7 WAR pitcher since he reinvented himself after being sent down to the minors. And as the article say that’s the best for any pitcher not named halladay (who is older than Cliff Lee)

4 years 9 months ago

King Felix is better than Lee.