Odds & Ends: Crawford, Thome, Rowand, Greinke

On this date in 1974, the Braves traded Hank Aaron to the Brewers for Dave May. Today, the Braves made some less memorable moves. Here are the day's links…


Leave a Reply

99 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Crawford, Thome, Rowand, Greinke"


timmytwoshoezzz
4 years 9 months ago

The Joel Sherman article on the Cliff Lee-ARod parallels is just horrible. Poorly researched, lacking any quantitative numbers, and lacking any real substance. Really sad

Slopeboy
4 years 9 months ago

Agree. Looks as if he needed something to write for the column and rehashing old news with a bit of current news is always easy to use in order to get something out.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Well there goes everything I ever said about Greinke/Yanks and my dreams of seeing Yankee prospects in KC. Oh well. Sorry guys!

ze3
4 years 9 months ago

Haha, yes!

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

I just liked your comment. I now feel like I should just stand at a bar dartboard and say mean things to the guys playing pool so they’d dart me. But I’m not going to say anything for real. Just a feeling. Go ahead guys.

ze3
4 years 9 months ago

Ok

4 years 9 months ago

Hahahahahaha yes. Sorry Span but I told you. Too bad we couldn’t get to argue the whole winter over Grienke going to NY lol.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

We will still argue about a lot of things. That’s what the stove is all about!

4 years 9 months ago

Ok, then I argue the Padres sign A-Gon to a long term deal, the Yankees don’t sign Cliff Lee but have a productive offseason by trading for a starter without giving up Montero or Betances, or sign another pitcher through FA, and that the team that lands Prince Fielder regrets signing him

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

:/ the yanks get a starter without giving up montero or betances?

4 years 9 months ago

It seems crazy I know. But I think the Yanks might think about dangling Gardner(wh I really, really do not wanna let go of), and maybe some pitching prospects(not named Dellin Betances, Manny Banuelos), and Joba is also trade bait.

derekbellstutu
4 years 9 months ago

I can think of worse choices for the Pirates managerial position than Clint Hurdle. Their names are John Gibbons and Ken Macha. I wonder if the Pirates ever asked for Tony Pena to interview for the job.

4 years 9 months ago

I hope they give Pena a chance, I’d like to see him get another managerial gig. As for the Buccos, Hurdle is the best choice of the candidates and he just entered the foyer, they may end up just hiring the first guy they see outside of PNC Park… With that negativity, here’s to the Pirates finally turning it around. I was 13 when Sid Bream and Francisco Cabrera ruined my dreams of a World Series and I almost feel I’ll never see another Bucco playoff team. We’ve finally got the young talent, but what does that mean in the ‘Burgh???

Montero1220
4 years 9 months ago

It’s okay Zack Greinke the Yankees don’t want another AJ Burnett. Now everyone can put those Greinke for Jesus Montero rumors to rest. God all I am asking for is a Cliff Lee-Jesus Montero battery.

And I like the idea of the Giants signing Crawford. Triples alley was made for him! They should also pursue Carlos Pena. They could move Aubrey Huff to right, have Cody Ross in center, and Pena at 1st. Boy are the Giants scary if they keep their awesome rotation and improve in their offensive/power department.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

So Andrew Torres, possible team MVP just goes to the bench?

InvalidUserID
4 years 9 months ago

Wow, really? ANDRES Torres team MVP?

Spark plug, yes. Team MVP, way off.

The Giants won’t catch the magic again unless they pony up for some thumpers.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Buster posey okay, but where would the Giants be without Torres?

gigantes2425
4 years 9 months ago

Would have been watching the playoffs with the dodgers

roberty
4 years 9 months ago

Torres posted a WAR of 4.5 in 2010.
Second highest on the team behind only Aubrey Huff.

SplitFingeredPujol
4 years 9 months ago

I’m not seeing the Greinke/Burnett similarities…just seeing some bitterness.

And I guess other people have already mentioned that Torres has earned a starting role. I think there’s at least a decent chance of a considerable regression, but you can’t bump the team’s offensive MVP out of a starting role based on a hunch.

HHHDMS
4 years 9 months ago

Rowand back in Philly ? Hmmm..maybe if Werth goes elsewhere..
Crawford entertained by the Giants ? That will leave Burrell without a job again Id guess because I think Cody and Torres arent going anywhere ( I hope)
I think Crawford winds up either with the Angels or the Yankees – basically a team that can meet his contract needs – with the Giants being a distant view & why not Detroit ?

4 years 9 months ago

You mean when Werth goes elsewhere?

HHHDMS
4 years 9 months ago

Well id say its 50% chance…you never know..there is mutual interest but as always its the $$$ with the bigge$t mouth of them all

4 years 9 months ago

Burrell has said he’d be willing to come back to SF as a bench player in 2011. This is doubly likely if the team resigns Huff; should the Giants find a better option in LF (or RF, thus moving Cody Ross), Burrell could be retained for spot starts, a platoon, or late-inning PH appearances.

Sniderlover
4 years 9 months ago

So will I stop seeing ridiculous Grineke to Yankees proposals now?

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

No. You will stop seeing ridiclous Greinke/Yankee posts from me. But There are 29 other teams in Baseball and 15 other teams that could be a fit.

4 years 9 months ago

That made me laugh.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

SPAN, you always have something witty to say.

SplitFingeredPujol
4 years 9 months ago

28 other teams. He’s not getting traded to the Royals. But I know what you mean…just being a turd.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

are you sure? royals have some great prospects to give up

BigBangBoom
4 years 9 months ago

“there’s no chance the pitcher would accept a trade to New York”
Cliff Lee: Cha-Ching

on a side note, a while a go i had similar concerns about Lee’s potential effect on Texas if he resigns and i compared it to Arod’s deal too.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Cliff Lee already had a Ka-Ching coming to him before the Greinke possibility for some teams.

There’s some stat that when a single player is making 20-25% of the team’s salary that team has never been to the world series. So there’s some merit to comparing the ARod’s TX contract to Lee’s future contract. Problem is who knows what will happen with this new management group in TX. They seem to be willing to spend money to keep winning the division. That said, I’m having trouble believing any argument that suggests a Lee deal would be bad for the Rangers.

pastlives
4 years 9 months ago

what % is Zito of SF’s?

BigBangBoom
4 years 9 months ago

about 18%

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

If you use opening day salaries, 19.2%… interesting, eh.

4 years 9 months ago

Thank goodness. Now I can sleep at nght without having nightmares about Cashman trading Montero and Betances away for someone who’d never succeed in NY.
Sorry SPANDemonium.

suPaFreaK
4 years 9 months ago

My super dream scenario for the Giants is a funny one but here we go…

I say the Giants trade for Ichiro and then get Crawford from free agency. But seriously can you imagine this lineup…

1.Ichiro
2.Torres
3.Crawford
4.Huff
5.Posey
6.Sandoval (2009 form)
7.Uribe
8.Sanchez
9.Pitcher Spot

Can you imagine the damage those three at the top of the lineup would do and how many runs huff and posey would be able to drive in? Plus Crawford could set an all-time triples mark in AT&T. *Sigh* but all I can do is just dream….

Whatever we’re 2010 World Series Champions so yeah!

SplitFingeredPujol
4 years 9 months ago

I mean…this lineup is ridiculous, but that’s not an insult. I know you’re giving a dream-world scenario, and those are always fun to play around with. That outfield defense would be insane, especially in that park, although it would be a shame seeing Ichiro in an OF where he can’t rob home runs.Anyways, the only thing I would change…assuming this dream scenario can become a reality….is I would swith Posey and Crawford. I think it gives a better LH/RH balance, and I also admire what Joe Maddon did in 2008 batting Crawford 5th. I think there’s a lot to be said about that decision. The 5th batter is usually the leadoff batter in the second inning. A guy like Crawford, who has some pop and can also play the speedy leadoff role, is the perfect 5 hitter in my mind, especially in the lineup you suggest.

4 years 9 months ago

Not to crush your dreams, but Seattle would never willingly give up Ichiro. He’s been instrumental in their marketing for the last decade; not only to the sizable Asian American population in the Pacific Northwest, but also back in Japan where he still has a large following; remember, the ownership group is Japanese. While Felix Hernandez is one of the best pitchers in the game, position players are generally easier to market as “the face of the franchise,” and the Mariners organization will continue to pay whatever Ichiro wants to keep him in Seattle until the end of his career.

gigantes2425
4 years 9 months ago

Trade rowand!!!

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

I’ll give you a bag of peanuts and you have to agree to take on his salary.

55saveslives
4 years 9 months ago

Hey Carl..

Reigning W.S. Champs….come join the party!!

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Let’s see what the Texas 2011 pay roll would look like w/ Lee:

Lewis- $3 mil
Wilson- $7 mil in arb ????
Hunter- $400k
Feldman- $4.4 mil
Oliver- $3.25 mil
Feliz- $400k
O’Day- $1.5 mil in arb ???
Agondo- $400k
Holland- $400k
Moreland- $400k
Kinsler- $6 mil
Andrus- $400k
Young – $16 mil
Hamilton- $10 mil in arbitration ????
Cruz- $4 mil in arb ?????
Borbon- $600k
Catcher ?????
DH ????????
SP ?????????

That’s about $58 mil in those mentioned above. Let’s add another $3 mil to fill out the bench to make it $61 mil. Let’s add another $12 mil for a starting C and DH to make it $73 mil. I can’t see Lee taking less than $23.5 mil to stay so that bring it up to about $96 mil. In 2012 Hamilton, Wilson and Cruz will push it over $100 mil.

The payroll right before and right after the Arod years went…

2001: $47 mil
2002: $105 mil
2003: $103 mil
2004: $55 mil (after they traded Arod)

So it seems that, at least back then, the Rangers really pushed against their limit when the payroll hit $100 mil. Can they afford to sign Lee and keep Hamilton, Cruz and WIlson in the next few years and pay Kinsler, Andrus and Feliz when they get more expensive?

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

The difference there is that the Rangers sucked w/ A-Rod and had a $100 million payroll. Right now they are the defending AL champions. Not only do they get more revenue from a postseason run, but they don’t need to make as many changes to continue success as those teams w/ A-Rod did.

And besides that, it’s debateable whether or not they keep all those other guys anyway. If Derek Holland were to have a breakout year next year, CJ Wilson would be expendable. Elvis Andrus is a good player, but he may not be worth it if some team offers him a bloated contract when he hits free agency. He’s still four years away from that though. I think it’s five for Feliz, and he may be replaceable after that if he wants $10 mil+ per year. The Rangers have a deep system and a quality scouting department. I’d have faith that their farm system can pump out cheaper replacements for some of these guys in the future.

4 years 9 months ago

Pretty sure the Rangers didn’t have a 3 billion dollar tv deal back then though…

cubfan4life
4 years 9 months ago

I think that Crawford is probably going to a California team i just dont see how it will be SF. I like SF and i think that it would be a very good fit i just dont see the money being there for him.

They will bring Ross back and let Burrell go leaving a spot open in the OF. Id bet Huff comes back. If the money is there through a Zito trade or some other $ clearing deal then they should go hard after Crawford. but they have never been a 100M a year team and i wouldnt expect them to deviate from that too much. They will have most of their starters back with the exception of Renteria who may retire and Uribe who is a FA. There are a couple of guys down at AAA that could be on the opening day roster in 2011 depending on how they go about FA this year. Namely Brandon Belt, and possibly Jesus Guzman.

I could also see a possible Sandoval trade this offseason. He is an AL player not an NL guy. Its unlikely considering his popularity but with the year he had combined with the lack of trust in him in the postseason who knows, with the right return they could at least quietly shop him around.

invader3k
4 years 9 months ago

I hope Doug Melvin is calling the Royals’ GM about Greinke. The Brewers desperately need to upgrade their starting pitching, and Milwaukee would fit Greinke’s small market criteria. They also have the prospects available to possibly swing a trade. Perhaps some combination of Brett Lawrie, Mat Gamel, Jake Odorizzi, Jeremy Jeffress, and/or Mark Rogers could do it. (Note that I’m not saying all those guys…maybe two and another one or two lower level guys).

cubfan4life
4 years 9 months ago

I like the idea especially since they are in a very winnable division but it would probably take Lawrie, Odorizzi, and Amaury Rivas and maybe even needing to add in another mid level prospect. Gamel doesnt fit because KC really doesnt need guys that play the corners. They might consider taking off one of the pitchers to get a top level Catcher prospect instead.

Im not saying i know everything about the MIL farm system but Gamel and Rogers dont fit since they have already been in the majors. Lawrie, Odorizzi, and Rivas fit cause its what KC needs and if MIL gave up those 3 it might be all that it takes

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

If I’m the Brewers I’d try and trade Fielder to get Grienke. Brewers aren’t in a position to be trading prospects. They aren’t close enough to winning the NL Central. Not with the Cards and the still improving Reds.
Obviously Fielder doesn’t make sense for the Royals….but you could try a 3-team trade. Get an AL club that needs a big hitter to either give you prospects for Fielder (so 2 separate deals) or just send them to the Royals.
A team that would make perfect sense IMO is the Tigers. Not sure how they’d feel about a 3-team deal with the Royals since they’re in the same division….but Fielder and DeJesus to the Tigers would be perfect for them. One could argue DeJesus is just as good as Crawford……but way cheaper salary wise.
A lineup of Jackson, DeJesus, Cabrera, and Fielder would be a very good 1-4 for the Tigers. Focus on a pitcher and VMart in free agency….and the Tigers could legitamately compete for the AL Central crown in 2011 IMO.
Big issue other than the divisional thing is do the Tigers have enough prospects to pull it off? System is pretty weak….though there are some big upside guys. Would they part with Turner?
Would Turner, Raburn, and Avila from the Tigers and say Odrozzi from the Brewers be enough to get Greinke? I think it could. Would the Tigers part with those 3 for 1 year of DeJesus and Fielder? meh, risky, but the Tigers have the money to offer both big deals.
Trade obviously isn’t happening though.

RoyalBlue
4 years 9 months ago

I still like getting a three team deal done…

Brewers send Fielder to Boston for Ellsbury, Kalish and Doubront

Royals send the Brewers Grienke and Butler for Ellsbury, Kalish, Doubront, Lawrie and Lucroy…

Boston gets their 1B

Brewers get an ace and a replacement for Fielder

Royals hit the jack pot :)

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah both Boston and even NY could make sense here with a 3-team deal involving Fielder. Texas could be a darkhorse team too depending how their winter goes.

4 years 9 months ago

The Yankees don’t make any sense in a deal for Fielder…I can’t think of a worse match actually. There is no way Fielder is worth Montero, and Montero has the DH spot locked down. A-Rod will need to be the DH in a few years too. There is no chance the Yankees spend that much money on another slugger who won’t be able to play a position.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Montero makes more sense for the DH spot….but then again, Austin Jackson made more sense for CF than Granderson. The Yanks simply can not help themselves, they have to make big splashes. I’d be shocked if Montero isn’t dealt in the next year.

Fielder doesn’t have to be extended either. He’s a free agent after 2011. If they want to use A-Rod at DH down the line they still could.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Yanks don’t make deals just for the sake of making a splash. To say that they do is mind boggling. They make deals that they feel make them better. Trading Austin Jackson was difficult but the thought behind it (IMO) is that even if AJ reaches his celing he would be no better than Curtis Granderson. In that case they felt like they were getting the potential equivalent to what AJ would be minus the growing pains by getting Grandy in his prime. The jury is still out if Grandy will perform better for the next 2 or 3 years of the deal, but so is the jury out as to wether AJ will regress next year or if he can overcome his high strikeout rate and low OBP.
As for Fielder, in no way shape or form would that make sense for the Yanks. They have Tex at 1B, Posada is slated for more AB’s at DH, Montero seems mlb ready and HR pop is not a major need for the Yanks to spend their best prospect on, especially when he may offer the same amount of opo, and do it a premium position.

4 years 9 months ago

And the fact that A-Rod and Jeter will have to DH at the near end of their careers. I’m not a fan of Fielder really. He’s Mo Vaughn waiting to happen.

4 years 9 months ago

The Red Sox have a first baseman that is better than Fielder already. So why would they trade their leadoff hitter, possible starting left fielder, and either their 5th starter or 3rd best reliever for Fielder? I don’t see Fielder as a fit in Boston at all. If the Red Sox were willing to spend the money, they would be better off with Beltre and Youkilis than moving Youkilis to third and having Fielder at first. The Red Sox have a thing for Adrian Gonzalez, but that doesn’t mean they want any slugging first baseman. Youkilis is a better player, and its questionable whether he can play third at this point.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Ellsbury really isn’t the Red Sox leadoff hitter. Pedroia is a better one.

I agree though, wouldn’t trade both Ellsbury and Kalish to get Fielder. Need to keep one of those guys around.

And the Red Sox have a 1B? Youk is likely moving to 3B (even he himself thinks he’s moving to 3B)…..1B and DH could be very much open spots in a few weeks for the Red Sox. Fielder makes a ton of sense for the Red Sox. But agree, they shouldn’t overpay and don’t “have” to get him.

RoyalBlue
4 years 9 months ago

I think they would rather trade both Ellsbury and Kalish before they they had to give up Kelly and Iglesias to get thier 1B slugger….

But that does not matter… I would take any combo of these players…

RoyalBlue
4 years 9 months ago

“In the second page of that same article, Silverman quotes an unnamed executive in saying that a package consisting of Jacoby Ellsbury, Jed Lowrie, and prospect Anthony Rizzo wouldn’t be enough to pry Adrian Gonzalez away from the Padres. He speculates the names that would be mentioned next would include Casey Kelly and Jose Iglesias. ”

They have already talked about moving Ellsbury…

BoomDizzle
4 years 9 months ago

Thank God Greinke is not going to the Dead Sox or the Skanks

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 9 months ago

if your going to insult either team, use something original

O971
4 years 9 months ago

There was a rumor 3to 4ish years ago about a Francouer-Greinke swap. :(

4 years 9 months ago

Wow, I have never heard of such a one-sided trade. Jeff Francoeur is not a good baseball player.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

4 years ago that would have been seen as a pretty fair deal.

4 years 9 months ago

Jeff Francoeur has never posted an .800 OPS in a full season in his career. In 2006 he hit 29 home runs, but had an OBP under .300. In 2007 he hit for better average but still had a low walk rate, even if it’s above average for his career. If you looked at his 2007 performance and decided that he was of equal value to Zach Grienke, you were flat out wrong. A high-ceiling pitcher is always worth more than a solid but unremarkable corner outfielder, much less an overachieving one.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Okay let’s rewind to November 2006 (4 years ago). Francoeur, yes, did not post an .800 OPS season, however, Greinke was coming off a year where he went through psychological issues the whole season and only pitched in 3 games. Francoeur meanwhile played in all 162 with a 1.7 dWar (considerably valuable for a guy who did also his 29 home runs). Prior to 06, Greinke had a 5.80 ERA and his peripherals did not lead most people to believe that he would pan out to anything that good, especially not what he has turned into. Greinke was not the “high-ceiling” pitcher that you say he was in November 2006. And most people in 2006 believed that if a hitting coach could get into Francoeur’s head and tell him to take a pitch that he would have been a star in the making. So no, I am not flat out wrong. In November of 2006, hoards of people would have done a Francoeur for Greinke swap in favor of getting Francoeur.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Greinke was always considered to be a VERY high ceiling pitcher. Always said to have Ace-stuff. Problem was he couldn’t put it together early. You are wrong here.

I do agree at the time a Francour-Greinke swap wasn’t too crazy though. Then again, at the time, a Rios for Lincecum swap wasn’t too crazy either.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Okay, perhaps I should have phrased it differently. But after a full season’s worth of 5.80 ball, his “very high ceiling” had to be on the verge of collapsing. Combine that with his psych problems of 06 and it really is amazing how his career has turned around so drastically.

And really, all I was saying was that in November 2006, his stock was extremely low. I realize he was seen as a high profiled talent up until then, but the Royals had to be pretty worried.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Thing is though, his “high ceiling” label was not on the verge of collapse. There was NEVER any doubting how high his ceiling was. Now would he get there? That was a big question mark.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Listen, after his 2005 mess and 2006 head problems, his ceiling at that point had to be falling. That is 2 years of unproductive play.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

dude, no it did not. his CEILING was still has high as ever. Some scouts started to question whether he had the mental makeup to reach his ceiling, but Greinke was still considered a potential Ace heading into the 2007 season. PERIOD.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Give me actual sources of scouts saying this and I will give, but I refuse to believe this.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

You are completely missing the point.Plenty of prospects have a high ceiling but never reach it. 4 years ago there was doubt if Greinke would reach it, not based on talent but because of other factors. He’s not saying it would’ve been a good move but it was a plausible one at the time.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Exactly. Thank you.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

No, YOU are missing the point. POINT is, his CEILING was high. I have stated 3 times now that I agree scouts questioned if he could reach it, but FACT is they still said he had the ceiling of an Ace. good grief.

I AGREED that is was a semi-plausible move at the time. Plausible though doesn’t mean it made much sense though. Greinke was always worth more than Francour, period.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Okay, well after a full season of 5.80/1.56, 5.6k/9 ball and a year of soul searching, if those same scouts are saying he had the ceiling of an ace, then just go ahead and elect those scouts to the hall of fame. Because I don’t know how after 2 years of productivity levels that Greinke had that you can still say his “stuff” is Ace quality. From the 2 years I am describing, it seems that his physical and mental “stuff” was not Ace quality at all. I think it’s a fabulous story that he has bounced back the way he has. The only way you would be able to get this question answered is by asking actual scouts from the 2005-2007 era. You can disagree all you want.

4 years 9 months ago

Yes, and Grienke still put up a sub-4 ERA in 2007, so he wasn’t that far off from achieving his perceived value.

If Francoeur puts up 2 seasons in a row like 2007? Sure, maybe he’s got the value for Grienke if KC gets cold feet about his mental composition or whatever. But one season of above-the-mean play doesn’t speak to a wise investment.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

So…completely ignoring the fact that I’m saying November of 2006. I.e., his 2007 numbers don’t come into play.

After 2007, there’s hardly any chance I would do that deal to get Francoeur.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

One ‘ok’ year by Francour though didn’t make him worth Greinke and his potential. That’s the point.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Francoeur was also a highly touted 1st round pick. That’s the point.

And it was one “ok” year and half of a great year where he carried the baby braves to the playoffs. People act like Francoeur has no talent. Wrong. He has incredible amounts of talent, he just has absolutely no discipline. And when you are judging players in the first couple years of their career, you are judging them on solely talent, with the idea that you can teach discipline. Francoeur and Greinke had very similar values up through 2007. There’s no doubt about that.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Disagree. Bet you couldn’t find one scout outside of Atlanta that thought Francour had as much value through 2007 as Greinke. Guys with Ace stuff are always worth more than cOFer with no plate discipline. ALWAYS.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Again, show me the sources. You’re just babbling on and on about how scouts have said this and that. Sorry if I can’t remember what scouts were saying about players from 4 years ago, I’m basing my guesses of what scouts would have been saying based on the performances on paper, and I don’t think I am that off.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Well you are. Baseball America called Greinke a future Ace if he could get his head straight in 2007. So his ceiling was an Ace according to scouts. NO top prospect losing his “ceiling” based off a year and a half of struggles when they are rookies. I’m the one babbling? You don’t even understand what a ceiling is obviously, yet continue the arguement. Greinke’s ceiling never was lower. The chances of him reaching it took a major hit.

Sad thing is I was agreeing with you. Simply pointed out your error in your initial post. good grief

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Interesting because I just read a pre-2007 MLB season SI article on Greinke that said things like this:

As good as Greinke might be, it is clear that, at least for now, his days as an ace are over. He prefers the anonymity of the bottom of the rotation to the pressures of being the stud of the staff. In fact, Greinke — soft-spoken, somewhat withdrawn but polite and accommodating in a talk after the game — said he might like to pitch out of the bullpen, an idea that he had a couple of years ago when he hated the game and believed pitching more often might make him hate it less.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

I would say when management and even GREINKE HIMSELF, start considering a move to the bullpen/settling for back of the rotation status, that yes the ceiling is indeed lower!

O971
4 years 9 months ago

Woo, I sparked a debate. I was really just trying to point out how quickly the value of players could rise and fall and how awesome it would have been if the Braves had sold on Francouer when his value was perceived as high.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Right, and I realize this. I don’t thinks this other guy does though. I’m not saying Jeff Francoeur is, was, or will be a better player than Greinke. I’m not saying that when they were drafted they had the same value. I’m not saying that 1 good year makes a player equal to another player.

All I am saying is that after the 2006 season had ended, I believe that the values of Francoeur and Greinke were close enough to where an exchange would have seemed fair.

RoyalBlue
4 years 9 months ago

Starting pitchers with ace stuff always have more value than hitters…

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Even after the 2005/2006 that Greinke had??? I don’t get it.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

ha, yes. We know you don’t get it. Most people do though.

Yucavich
4 years 9 months ago

Ah yes, set myself up for such a witty response. Good for you. Feel good now? Pat yourself on the back.

MetsEventually
4 years 9 months ago

I still feel the Giants should head for Prince Fielder.

Otis26
4 years 9 months ago

What?!?!?! Not everyone dreams of being a Yankee?!?!?!?!

Oh the horra!!

4 years 9 months ago

That makes Zack Greinke okay in my book. I’m tired of everyone going to the Yankees. It almost takes the joy out of the game…

baseball52
4 years 9 months ago

Obviously Jim Hendry will sign Carl Crawford. And trade for Aaron Rowand. And sign Cliff Lee. And trade for Zach Grenkie. His new strategy is to spend like a 18 year old girl with her daddy’s credit card, but spend it in the most mind boggling ways.

4 years 9 months ago

No because if Tom Ricketts was any smart he’d fire Hendry. The only good moves he made recently is hiring Mike Quade and deciding to stick to his farm system. But at least he SEEMS to be heading into the right direction. Now time to trade Fonzie Soriano and A-Ram. Marlon Byrd and Koyie Hill should really be the only veterans on that team.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

If Hendry is able to trade Soriano…..he definitely deserves to keep his job. No one would want that contract…..though….maybe a Zito for Soriano deal could work? Zito has 3 years (guaranteed) and $64.5M….Soriano 4 years and $72M. Though the no-trade clauses could be huge obstacles….for both guys.

Ramirez will be tough to trade as well unless you eat a lot of his salary. He’s more a summer trade candidate IMO. Needs a good spring and maybe a contender will come calling.

baseball52
4 years 9 months ago

I was being sarcastic, Henry. Also, wasn’t calling up Castro a good decision?

baseball52
4 years 9 months ago

Obviously Jim Hendry will sign Carl Crawford. And trade for Aaron Rowand. And sign Cliff Lee. And trade for Zach Grenkie. His new strategy is to spend like a 18 year old girl with her daddy’s credit card, but spend it in the most mind boggling ways.