Red Sox Notes: Scutaro, Papelbon

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein has been rather busy at the winter GM meetings, writes Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com.  While the club has yet to make a move, Epstein is hopeful that something will soon come out of the trade talks that he has had.

  • Yesterday, we learned that teams are showing interest in shortstop Marco Scutaro and the club is willing to move him for the right return.  The market for Scutaro is rapidly heating up as McAdam writes that six teams are in on the 35-year-old.  Potential landing spots include St. Louis, Cincinnati, San Diego, and San Francisco if the Giants are unable to re-sign Juan Uribe.  The Red Sox are seeking bullpen help in return for Scutaro, according to McAdam.
  • Closer Jonathan Papelbon will seek $11.5MM in arbitration, $2.15MM more than he earned in 2010, a major league source tells Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.  Papelbon is coming off of a down season in which he turned in career-highs in ERA (3.90) and BB/9 (3.8), though his 10.2 K/9 is consistent with his career average.


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139 Comments on "Red Sox Notes: Scutaro, Papelbon"


Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Scutaro to the Reds for Sappelt and Robles with the Sox picking up half-all of his salary would be worth it in m opinion…

Dan
4 years 9 months ago

I think they are looking for ML ready relievers no minor leaguers.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

So maybe for Danny Herrera straight up.

Ethanator99
4 years 9 months ago

Herrera and Ondrusek maybe? Both are young and cheap

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

I could see that…

Funny story…You know how every duo of players (not every) have a certain handshake that is only theirs? Well Ondrusek and Herrera’s is Danny jumps up 12 inches and Ondrusek puts his hand up as high as he can and Herrera has to slap it. And it took him more than a jump when I saw them do it in person. I think they know eachother because both are from Texas. Ondrusek is from Shiner and Danny is from Odessa. From the Louisville people I talked to, both are missed there although Danny spent most of the season there.

4 years 9 months ago

ya no one cares about the reds

Dave_Gershman
4 years 9 months ago

Well apparently someone does — I got 1 like.

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

You sure did, cause the Reds are a very exciting young team. Fun team to watch.

jb226
4 years 9 months ago

People who don’t care about the Reds are not baseball fans.

4 years 9 months ago

That’s about as ignorant as saying nobody cares about the Red Sox.

redsox4120
4 years 9 months ago

I like that trade; I think Ondrusek would become a very good with Curt Young as his pitching coach.

jcf313
4 years 9 months ago

I wouldn’t trade Ondrusek straight up for Scutaro. The Red’s would be better off bringing Cabrera back if that was the case.

Ethanator99
4 years 9 months ago

I agree. I’d actually rather just keep them then go with Janish at Short.

jcf313
4 years 9 months ago

No way the Reds are interested. They would re-sign Cabrera before trading Ondrusek or Herrera for Scutaro.

johnsilver
4 years 9 months ago

Couple differences with Scuttaro and O-Cab. Scuttaro can hit and is not a club house disruptor. Both have about the same range and Scuttaro’s throwing errors *should* go down next year since he rested his injured shoulder over the off season. last year he could hardly raise it and at times not even move it above head level it was so bad, yet played anyway leading to most of his errors.

Scutaro has plenty of gap power and would hit at least as good at Cincy as he did at fenway would think, only reason think Boston would be willing to move him is if they think either Iglesias indeed is ready by the end of the year, Nishioka (spelling) is maybe on the radar, or hopefully youngster Lowrie is being penciled in as the 1 season SS warmer for the position before Iglesias gets the position FT, then Lowrie moves to super utility role.

jcf313
4 years 9 months ago

Cabrera was far from a a clubhouse disruptor last year. His veteran prescence, along with Rolens was a huge factor for the Reds making the playoffs. Aside from that, the Reds aren’t gonna part ways with any of their young players unless it’s for an impact player.

Their content with Paul Janish anways. He may not be know for his offense but in 200 AB’s he had 5 HR 25 RBI .260 average and plays gold glove caliber defense. I’ll take Janish batting 8th anyday rather than trade some of our young pitchers for Scutaro. Sorry, but I wouldn’t get your hopes up as the Reds being trade partners.

4 years 9 months ago

They would trade Herrera for Scutaro in a hot second. He got shelled in the bigs last year. Ondrusek is a different story. I wouldn’t trade him for one year of scutaro because he has nasty stuff and is proving himself useful at a young age. I would send them Smith and Herrera

jcf313
4 years 9 months ago

I wouldn’t trade for Scutaro in general. IMO it’s just not worth packaging Herrera up with any of our young RP’s. Janish will be fine. A frontline starter or LF who can either leadoff or protect Votto is what they need.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

Whats the scouting report of these guys, never heard of them. They both had decent years last year, but haven’t quite proven that they could be a reliable reliever in the AL east. Are they former prospects or just supposed to be average guys?

jcf313
4 years 9 months ago

Former prospects. Herrera came over with Volquez in the Hamilton deal, he had a solid ’09 but couldn’t get it going this year. Ondrusek was rookie this past season who made the roster out of spring training. He had a rough start, was sent down and came back up and finished the season strong. 3.68 ERA in 58.2 in, 20 BB 39 K

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

Giants have plenty of relievers to spare Romo or Casilla and throw in one or 2 of our minor league stable of pitchers, but I’d prefer to see them go after Hardy or Bartlett. Younger and cheaper unless you get the Sox to eat a chunk of Scutaro’s money

soxfan0928
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah Scutaro’s massive $5mil salary next year, completely excessive compared to Bartlett and Hardy, of which both will be around the same range with modest raises.

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

What about 2012? Is that an option for Scutaro or guaranteed? I was under the impression it was guaranteed, making it essentially a 2 yr deal worth 11-12 mil. At this time I think 1 year for a SS is best for the Giants, so we can take a look at Rohlinger and Crawford some more. But if ’12 is an option, then I wouldn’t mind

soxfan0928
4 years 9 months ago

2012 is a $6mm club option/3mm player option with a 1.5mm buyout. Still that’s pretty cheap money considering he had about the same stats as Jeter in 2010, but Jeter’s getting about 18-20mm/year.

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

I was mistaken, for some reason I thought that 2012 was a straight 6 mil. That is reasonable, if he can stay healthy and get his defense back to 2008/2009 form, he would look good in orange and black. How much are the Sox looking for in return- maybe Santiago Casilla, Henry Sosa and Gino Espinelli?

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I would take Romo, I don’t think Theo would part with Scutaro unless its for a relatively proven set-up man. Romo seems to fit the bill, but Casilla is a little too inconsistent.

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

He may not have as much experience as a set up guy, but Casilla was easily the Giants best reliever not named Brian Wilson this past year. He had one bad outing in October, but he was rock solid all year for us

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

hmm, the 5.96 era in 2009 scares me, but it looks like he was lights out this year all the way through the playoffs. i guess its probably worth it, i just remember him being an average guy on the Athletics though. Ramon Ramirez and Javier Lopez choked on the Red Sox, yet were great for the Giants, so who knows…

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

Watching the Giants all season, I have complete faith in both Casilla and Romo to be the set up guy, so one is expendable. Our pen is deep and we have some prospects who should be able to step in. Its a matter of style, Romo has better control and that nasty frisbee slider, while Casilla is a power pitcher who walks more guys but is a K machine

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

cool, thanks for the scouting report. being on the east coast and a Sox fan, I pretty much know absolutely nothing about what goes on in the NL west…

cubfan4life
4 years 9 months ago

If the Giants were to trade for him it would mostl iikely be Casilla or possibly Affeldt who gets sent to Boston. Casilla has the better arm and more upside so its more likely him who would get dealt. However Scutaro shouldnt be someone that they trade for. JJ Hardy would be preferable to him. Better defender and younger. Still has gap power and in AT&T park those would turn into easy triples.

Someone that they should look into is Jose Reyes. They have some movable pieces and i dont think that it would cost them a lot to get him. The Mets have an in house replacement in Ruben Tejada so i could see maybe a deal with Casilla, Runzler, and maybe a low minors prospect getting it done.

It would give Reyes a fresh start out of NY and it would give SF a true leadoff hitter which they havent had in idk how long.

Reaper87
4 years 9 months ago

I am a fan of Hardy and would love to see us get him, or Bartlett, who should be a little cheaper that Hardy. But Scutaro is not the end of the world, definitely an option they should at least look into. I hadn’t thought about Reyes once the Mets picked up his option, it seemed like Alderson wanted to keep him around. I would love to get him to SF, but Reyes is still an elite player when healthy. If we could get him for Casilla, Runzler, Nick Noonan and Johnny Monell (or equivalent value prospect wise), I’d pull the trigger on that in a second

cubfan4life
4 years 9 months ago

It seemed like Alderson picked up the option almost because he didnt really have much of a choice. Runzler, Casilla, Noonan/Gillaspie and one more should be close. Too bad Tim Alderson isnt still in the organization lol.

If that is too much for them then Bartlett or Hardy should be the next guys on the list. Bartlett for Casilla straight up could probably work since TB already has both Sean Rodriguez and Reid Brignac waiting and they need some young controllable bullpen arms with their entire late inning group hitting FA.

kjodon7
4 years 9 months ago

The idea that Papelbon deserves a raise after the 2010 season he had is unbelievable.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

Its the rules of arbitration. Almost every player gets a raise no matter what. In your first year of arbitration, you make about 20% of your value. Second year: 40%. Third year: 60%. So Papelbon will likely increase from 9M to 11Mish

or it might be 40%, 60%, 80%, i forget

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

non tender.

jb226
4 years 9 months ago

The arbitration system is something of a joke. Not just draft pick compensation, but the entire system that seems to think people deserve a raise for being a year older, regardless of whether or not they performed the same, better or worse. I understand baseball isn’t like any other job, but it’s a bit much.

Honest question: Technically a team can submit an arbitration figure 20% under a player’s previous year’s salary — but has it ever happened? If so, has it ever been upheld?

Sometimes we see a player released, sometimes they ultimately re-sign with the same club, but I can’t recall a situation, ever, where a lower salary was suggested much less awarded through arbitration. What’s the point in a system that does nothing but give players raises regardless of whether or not they deserved them?

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

ya the rules are stupid. Its really rare to get a pay cut since one year they are paid @ 60% of their “value” and the next year they are paid at 80% of their “value.”

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Would Papelbon get more than 10 million a year on the open market? I would think no, right?

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I think some team would give him 3 years 30M, but Papelbon would probably want a 1 year deal so he can have a great year and then get a KRod/Rivera type contract. Kinda like what Beltre just did

4 years 9 months ago

Personally if I was Theo – I might just walk away from the arbitration award.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I think the reason we offer him arbitration is because we will get 2 top draft picks when he leaves as a free agent next year. So we’re pretty much gonna pay 11.5M for 1 year of Papelbon + 2 picks

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

sound reasoning, you should work for the red sox..

So at the end of the 2011 year papelbon gets paid 11.5 … and Theo offers him arbitration??

great work, I’m sure he won’t accept. Good luck with those 2 picks

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

Earlier you said to nontender him, which decision do you agree with??? The best option is tendering him a contract this year and the Sox have him for 1 year at about $11.5M. Then after 2011, he gets offered arbitration and obviously declines and becomes a free agent. The Sox then receive 2 draft picks from the team that he signs with. The option of nontending him gets you nothing.

4 years 9 months ago

Jeremy Affeldt for Marco Scutaro. Salaries about wash, both coming off injuries and both with lesser roles. slam dunk.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Sounds like a good deal to me. I’m perfectly fine with Lowrie but if he can’t stay healthy we start the SS shuffle all over again -_-.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

meh, he put up a 4.14 ERA and 1.60 WHIP in the national league. What would he do against the yankees? i wouldn’t bother trading scutaro unless we’re getting a guy who can definitely handle the 7th/8th inning in Boston. Ramon Ramirez was lights out for the Giants, but when with the Sox he would curl up into a ball in any pressure situation, especially against the Yankees.

MaineSox
4 years 9 months ago

Except I don’t think Scutaro brings back someone who can definitely handle the 7th/8th inning, probably someone more along the lines of an Atchinson.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

then whats the point of even trading him. we can get Atchison type guys for nothing. trading Scutaro means Lowrie MUST produce

MaineSox
4 years 9 months ago

The only reason to trade him really would be if they think Lowrie can produce and they want to finally give him a chance. He doesn’t have tons of value because he really isn’t a lot better than slightly above average so you really wouldn’t be trading him hoping for a great return. Just my opinion though so I could be wrong, we’ll see I guess.

KenJr1918
4 years 9 months ago

If I were the Sox, I’d pass on Affeldt. I think the Sox are looking to save money and get younger in the pen.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

Cards could match up. The birds have a plethora of young RHRP. But I’d still shoot for Uribe over Scutaro.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

are their 3 young guys (Boggs, McLellen, Motte) guys that came up as good prospects?

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

McClellan is a stud, and so he’s not exactly a prospect anymore. Doubt he’d get traded straight up for Scutaro. Maybe if the Sox took on a lot of salary and that allowed the Cards to pick up a RF/3B bat (Not quite Werth/Beltre level, but close). He’s 26 and still pretty cheap.

Motte has a great arm, just hasn’t mastered pitches yet. He’s 28. His fastball is upper 90’s. Maybe he’s hit 100 a time or two in his career, but it has a tendency to be pretty straight. That’s his only plus pitch currently. His slider is decent, just because it’s not his fastball. I saw him drop a curveball on a televised ST game once that made Wainwright’s look childish and the batter look downright pathetic. He threw it once more that game and it just spun up there, ending up 400+ feet away. There’s talent in that arm, but nothing really ready yet and he’s not quite there yet. This is the guy the Cards kept over Chris Perez, mind you.

Boggs is more developed than Motte, with a full assortment of pitches. His fb is about 96 out of the bullpen. He started out as a starter, but didn’t quite cut it. His fb averaged 94 as a starter. He probably has less talent than Motte, but is more polished.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

Oh. and I just talked about the guys you mentioned. As far as big names there’s Salas and Sanchez. They’re going to be good better than the three you mentioned. Especially Sanchez.

Then there are some other arms rounding out AAA that could likely make the jump to MLB.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

Do people think a Scutaro deal for a reliever would happen relatively soon or after most of the free agent relievers sign? I think it makes more sense to see who we can sign first, then decide on making a trade. The only reason to trade Scutaro now is if its for a good young reliever because all the free agents are 30+ and looking for dough.

SneakyLongBalls
4 years 9 months ago

Theo’s 2009 offseason will cost him in the long run. He made some bizarre signings and now has to try and clean up his own mess.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

He made two long term deals, both for pitchers who are more than capable of performing in the 3/4 roles to which they’ll be assigned with Lester and Buchholz locked up for just as long. Everything else he did is essentially off the books after 2011. Including the signings from last year, the Sox will be shedding Ortiz, Drew, Papelbon and Cameron (Total of about $45 MM). That’s on top of Varitek, Lugo and Lowell all coming off the books this offseason. In addition to all of that, Scutaro’s salary would likely drop to about $3 million in 2012 if he actually sticks around. As it stands, the Sox don’t have a single player obligation going past 2014. How is all of that going to severely hamper him in the “long run?”

Fangaffes
4 years 9 months ago

Players Theo should attempt to trade in order to get younger/cheaper/build a better bullpen:
Scutaro – replace with Lowrie
Cameron – replace with Kalish or a signing
Papelbon – replace with Bard
Matsuzaka – replace with Doubrount (difficulty: Dice-K has a no-trade contract)
Okajima – if he can’t be traded, non-tender him

Getting prospects or bullpen guys for any of these is fine.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t think Theo can trade Cameron or Papelbon without picking up a large portion of their salaries. I’d just keep them with Cameron as the 4th outfielder. I think we should just non-tender Okajima. Trading Matsuzaka and Scutaro are real good ideas.

4 years 9 months ago

For what it is worth (not much to many), I think Scutaro is great. I loved watching him play with the Jays. He plays with heart and class, grinding day in and day out. Aside from coming off a career year, he landed that deal with the BoSox because he is better than most in very thin SS market.

Fangaffes
4 years 9 months ago

I agree. I have no problem with Scutaro. I’d just like to see the Sox get something for him while he has value, since they have a replacement who’s at least as good.

Braun4Pres
4 years 9 months ago

Question for you REAL Boston Fans…..
The Brewers are talking about “signing” Rickie Weeks, and we know it won’t happen, would the Red Sox still be up for considering a Pedroia to short move? I know he’s said he’d do it, and that cat is a gamer, I know he could handle it. That would be a pretty good solution to your SS problem short/long term, plus you get a kid who can lead off with a .366 OPS, lead the league in lead off homers, 28, and is young. I have no idea what we’d require in the trade, he’s only got 1 yr left before FA, but he’s been talking about wanting to be locked up before FA, so who knows?
Not sure what ya’ll think of that, but it’s worth an ask right??

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t think there’s any chance we would move Pedroia to SS. Plus, we do have a top prospect Iglesias coming up soon who is supposed to be unbelievable at defense. I think the sox would be interested in Weeks if he could handle 3B though

Fangaffes
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah, I’d have to agree with that. A couple weeks ago was thinking about Uggla for 3B, but I don’t suppose his defense would be any better than 2B, which is just bad.

On top of it all, you probably don’t want Pedroia moving to SS coming off a broken foot.

Fangaffes
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah, I’d have to agree with that. A couple weeks ago was thinking about Uggla for 3B, but I don’t suppose his defense would be any better than 2B, which is just bad.

On top of it all, you probably don’t want Pedroia moving to SS coming off a broken foot.

rsoxbob
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t know why anyone would think the Red Sox have a “SS problem”. They have a quality starter in Scutaro and a strong back-up in Lowrie (who can also back up at the other IF spots) and, as others have mentioned, a top prospect who’ll be ready in a year or so. Now, they DO have a bullpen problem, a catcher problem, a 3B problem and an OF production problem. Let’s solve those!

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Why is it a surprise? Scutaro put up a fine season offensively. His defense struggled because of his shoulder injury, which is why he was moved to second base in the later stages of the season.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Why? We’re not exactly seeing a sexy market for shortstops. Scut would be a cheap and short commitment for a player who can hit in the top or bottom of the order. He’s gotta be a nice alternative if you don’t want to overpay for Tejada or Uribe.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Scutaro was injured? First time I am hearing that. It’s a good excuse, I guess. I just think about Josh Hamilton when I hear things like this. Guy had fractured ribs and 4 weeks later is flagging down balls in center like he had fly paper stuck to his hands. Can’t it just be said that Scutaro is really just an average player at best.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

He had a shoulder problem and was getting cortisone shots in his throwing arm for most of the 2nd half and it reduced his range. Try doing research before calling someone out.

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

Yes, he was injured.

And Josh Hamilton was lucky enough for the ribs to heal quickly enough. Ribs are tricky, either they heal quickly or they don’t. For him, its more about just naturally having a stronger body that can deal with those things, and, come on. He’s Josh Hamilton, its not surprising he seemed barely affected. Scutaro played hurt all year, and didn’t tell anyone how bad it felt til late in the season. In fact, I remember during one of his hot streaks, Remy and Orsillo would remind the viewers that he was playing with a bad shoulder still. Considering his condition, he played very admirably, and its impressive it took so long for his throwing arm to be weak enough that he had to take time off.

Plus, average at the shortstop position is pretty damn good right now. He’s a very viable starting shortstop right now, assuming he feels better next year, which from what I hear sounds like the injury is not an issue at all anymore.

andrewyf
4 years 9 months ago

Dude he’s a Red Sox. The ONLY reason their team doesn’t win the World Series every year is because they have ‘bad luck’ with injuries. The. Only. Reason.

rickjimbo
4 years 9 months ago

Yes, he was injured almost from day one. that’s why they moved him to second later in the year when Pedroia was out. He was losing range and Lowrie’s arm was healthier

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

As already said, no exchange cost and Tejada gets $2mm max on the open market right now 1/3 of Scutaro’s salary. Uribe, probably somewhere comparable to $6mm.

soxfan0928
4 years 9 months ago

Plus Scutaro has a 2012 club option worth 6MM if you’re a team waiting for one of your prospects to develop into a SS.

Towers said that Stephen Drew is available, but Towers wants a kings ransom for his AA backup catcher, so you know he’ll want a farm system for Drew.

andrewyf
4 years 9 months ago

We just saw Clint Barmes traded for a reliever, albeit hard-throwing, who had a 5.00 ERA last season. Clint isn’t quite as good a hitter as Scutaro, but makes up for it with better defense, and is also 4 years younger.

That’s pretty much the kind of return you should expect for Scutaro. Stop reading SOSH.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Thank you. I’m glad someone else knows what’s going on before they talk.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Quite a few players had cortisone injections, most of which still performed at a high level..

baseballz
4 years 9 months ago

I remember them saying that he was dealing with dead muscle in his throwing arm. I didn’t believe it though cause that sounded too weird. How can it be dead ? Is that true Sox fans ?

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

No problem. Scutaro was one of my favorite players last year, especially after Pedroia and Youk got hurt. So, I’m pretty quick to defend him. 😛

4 years 9 months ago

Won’t Tejada cost a first rounder for most teams though?

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

Ooh! I didn’t peg you for a troll. This just got so much more fun! 😀

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Okay, clearly this is headed nowhere. This was a discussion about baseball. Sorry you were wrong, nice chatting with you.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 9 months ago

are they havng…Bromance? i think so!!

johnsilver
4 years 9 months ago

You found a trolls den yet where bashers hang out? never found a decent post yet regarding a single Sox player, much less a injured one where Scuttaro could not even raise his arm over his head starting in late August due to the shoulder injury, but coming from a NYY troll that knows virtually -0- but bashing.. What would one expect?

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t think so. Actually, I don’t remember what free agent class he is in. It’s not going to matter in about 10 days anyway.

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

*sigh*

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Scutaro isn’t an allstar and he’s only going to perform at an above average level at best. So I don’t know what your point is. I’m not saying he’s a superstar I’m just saying he had a very solid season.

4 years 9 months ago

1) Scutaro’s injuries this season are well documented, but 2) he’s still only an avg SS. 3) He gets a pass from Sox fans b/c, well, he’s a Red Sox now. Soon as he’s gone (and hopefully that’s soon) Theo will point out how great the “new” (old) SS (Lowrie) is, giving Red Sox Nation permission to take off their blinders to the averageness that was the Scutaro experiment…

Just like he/they did for Gonzalez, and Julio Lugo before him, and Joey Cora before him, like he did for Alex Gonzalez before him, like he did for/to Edgar Rentaria before him, like he did for/to Orlando Cabrera before him…

JUST like he did to Normar as soon as he shipped his once future “LOCK” HOF ass as soon as the door slammed behind him.

Notice a pattern with Theo and SS?

Now I’m a die hard Sox fan. And my brethren should have noticed the pattern about 5 years ago, when one day Nomar was considered top 5 all-time SS, and 2 weeks later it was all about “zone rating” and “fielder “range factors.”

Don’t get me wrong, I buy the validty of the new science, what I don’t but is that every current Sox player is Great until Theo is tired of his toy, then all the sudden it becomes “he was aiight” when the guy leaves town. See: Nomar, Johnny Damon, Edgar Rentaria, Jason Bay,

You watch, next season it will be “Victor could hit, but he couldn’t throw anybody out,” and “yeah, Beltre could mash, but it was in a contract year,” or “his defense was overrated, Beltre had 30 errors.”

Bollocks! Fair weather fans give us ALL a bad name.

ps–Theo should trade Scutaro for WHATEVER help he can get. Resign the bats, and let the Iglesias/Pedroia era begin.(…around the All Star break!)

Ben_Cherington
4 years 9 months ago

yep keep bashing the sox ss while your yanks give their ss with the same numbers 21 mil per! You are so negative its boring…mix it up troll! You dont even have to post and we already know what your thinking! We all know you dont like the red sox and that is fine! Your essentially a broken record! Ya keep bashing all the sox over and over and over
and over and over
and over and over
and over and over

flickadave
4 years 9 months ago

Scutaro had either a partially torn rotator cuff (according to Marco) or an inflamed rotator cuff (according to the Sox). It’s amazing that he could play to the level he did.

GoAwayNow
4 years 9 months ago

Century, I am so sick of your crap. I never comment because I usually just enjoy reading people’s comments. But you are a troll. A huge troll that adds nothing to the discussion. We get it. Scutaro isn’t as good as Josh Hamilton. You hate Theo. Good for you. The Red Sox will finish in 4th this season. Blah Blah Blah. Go crawl back under your bridge and get away from the keyboard.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Well said..

jwsox
4 years 9 months ago

except for the fact that barms was just about a lock to be non-tendered…heck ugla got traded for a prospect and a reliever

KenJr1918
4 years 9 months ago

Isn’t quite as good a hitter? That’s an understatement. Taking a quick look at their career home/road splits, Barmes numbers take a big drop outside of Coors Field. Scutaro’s numbers are virtually even.

KenJr1918
4 years 9 months ago

Also, Scutaro has averaged a 3.2 WAR over the last three years. Barmes has averaged 1.3 in the same time frame.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t read SOSH. And I’m looking over my comment and I’m not sure where I said Scutaro could be traded for a top prospect. I’ve stated before in other threads that Scutaro could be traded for a decent reliever.

As for Barmes, he was about to be DAed and I’m guessing you’re in the minority that thinks Scut and Barmes are close to similar.

So do me a favor before you jump down someone’s throat, try thinking other than your usual self which is a yankee fan who pretty much constantly views anyone who plays for the Red Sox as being worse than they are.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 9 months ago

My man…call a spade a spade. Couldnt agree more! U forgot to add pedro, manny as well!

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

He gets a pass from Red Sox fans? Sorry, but from what I’ve read Red Sox fans are not his biggest supporters. He seems to be right up there with JD Drew in popularity right now, and I’m not sure why.

And I just want to say something in response to your three examples as to how us fair-weather fans act. I don’t think anyone discredits what Nomar did for this team. I think you’re confusing his production after the move with what people thought of his time in Boston. Now I was more supportive of the trade than most, but even I loved Nomar and to this day still believe that he contributed greatly to the team. He simply dropped off dramatically afterwards. Nobody liked Edgar, once he started playing. Sure we were all excited when he first signed, but the shine didn’t last long. Jason Bay was well-loved too, I still hear many fans complain that we would have made the playoffs if we resigned him. He’s like Nomar, has dropped off since, but his production with us is still in pretty high regard.

And Damon went to the Yankees, so yeah. He was “aiight”. Fair-weather fans are the only fans that DON’T hate him.

Woah. Wait. I just completely read your post. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Nomar -WAS- a top five shortstop before he left; your argument is that was all hyped by Theo? Gimme a break. And you say Scutaro is average like that’s a bad thing. Take a look at the shortstops in MLB today; not many of them come close to average. Renteria, Lugo, Gonzalez, all played at barely replacement-level while with us. Lugo was especially a disaster. And I don’t even know who Joey Cora was..you mean Alex Cora?

You don’t sound like a die-hard fan to me. You’re attacking Theo, and blowing things out of proportion, and not looking carefully at anything yourself, just choosing to be unhappy and grumpy about it. You sound like a kid…

redsox4120
4 years 9 months ago

Alex Cora, not Joey Cora.

RedSox31
4 years 9 months ago

Actually, I’ve said from day one Victor can hit but can’t throw anyone out. Thats clear. And Beltre did mash, but probably because it was in a contract year. And none of that will change, whether they stay or leave. And its fans like you give us a bad name. Know it all’s who really don’t know anything. like the fact Iglesias will not be major league ready until 2012 at the absolute earliest, but he should probably have that extra year in the minors to see if he can hit more. Unless he becomes a hitting machine next year, you won’t see him here until September callups 2012.

Yeah, I know that, and I don’t even have a COLLEGE education. Go figure.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Gee another yankee fan who constantly undervalues Red Sox players agrees with the yankee fan who constantly undervalues Red Sox players. Color me surprised.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Why don’t you and Century come on to talk baseball and not spam? We’re having “Bromance” because we agree on the same subject, come on. Please, save the bs for the people you know in real life. Don’t take it online and start stuff with people you don’t know.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

Infante isn’t a prospect..

start_wearing_purple
4 years 9 months ago

Tejada is a Type A FA. Thus a transaction cost.

Ben_Cherington
4 years 9 months ago

dude chill out! If you read my posts i do talk baseball and you would know i hate reading centurys posts…they are terrible! Take a joke man…not trying to start something so just relax and know its just a joke

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

Well actually no, I just didn’t connect the name to previous posts right away…besides, I read his original post as much less inflammatory as the whole thing ended up being 😛

4 years 9 months ago

BTW, I’m also a die-hard Theo fan. I knew my comments would bring out drivle like that above. Take a little closer look at my Avitar, Mr Anonymous Sam, visit my Twitter if its not yet clear to you what kind of Red Sox fan I am.

I LOVE Theo… I LOVE the Sox… I’m 34 years old & I take my 8 year old son to Sox games and I LIVE in in PORTLAND MAINE, home of their AA team, and I’ve seen every future superstar that came through here from when it was a Marlins affiliate to when Pink-hats like YOU had never even heard of guys like Hanley or Lester, or could spell names like Buchholz, Paplebon…

The difference between a Sox fan like me, and Sox fan like you? is the difference I attempted to illuminate above, which gets lost on you near-sighted neophytes that get caught up in the difference between the JOEY vs ALEX coras of the world (btw, there is none…worth mentioning, that’s the whole point!)

… the difference is that I have a COLLEGE education, and have been taught to think & reason for myself. You just made my entire point: I think for myself & come up with my own conclusions about the player in, and the State of, Red Sox Nation. Hacks like you drivel on with the State-endorsed position of any given Red Sox player or issue at a given time.

Yes, it’s a very small difference between me & you really. But just as both Humans and common the House Fly share a huge genetic similarity–48 chromosomes–the difference in the polished end-products of me & you? It’s, well, the difference between a human & a house fly.

4 years 9 months ago

Thanks. “Calling a Spade a Spade” is something I often appreciate/compliment others for. You don’t know how highly I regard that as a compliment. Thanks again.

dc21892
4 years 9 months ago

I heard something with the rotator cuff. I’m not sure the exact injury. To be honest I don’t know if it was ever disclosed exactly what was wrong with it. I’d have to check but I know something caused him pain most of the year.

Steve_in_MA
4 years 9 months ago

It is possible in the figurative sense, but not the literal sense. A dead muscle is not literally dead tissue. Its muscle that has lost nerve/electro-impulse connectivity. It won’t normally contract and/or relax. I have not heard of Scuts having this. All talk that I’ve heard has been about rotator cuff strain, tear and inflammation.

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

Teehee. FT likes his sarcasm….

4 years 9 months ago

You spelled Papelbon wrong, buddy.
I was also really impressed by your grammar, college grad.

BoSoxSam
4 years 9 months ago

Um…It’s Papelbon.

Anyway, I’m not even sure how to respond to this. I’ve been a fan since I can remember, and early on I was obsessed with baseball in general; my dad owned an old edition of Total Baseball, and my brothers and I would study it like crazy. I too am from Maine, and was lucky enough to go to a couple Sea Dogs games. Seeing as I lived four hours away it wasn’t many, but they were all memorable. (Also got to see some Bangor Lumberjacks games, dunno if you remember those guys…a little closer to home for me. And cheaper :P) I do in fact, follow our farm system, pretty closely actually. It’s not like you even gave me hard names to remember. I definitely knew those guys when they were up and coming, and obviously I still follow them.

Okay, now that we’ve gotten to know each-other…I still have no idea what points you were trying to make. Not really talking much baseball anymore…and that’s what I thought we were both fans of. The game. Not drama…

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

“… the difference is that I have a COLLEGE education, and have been taught to think & reason for myself”.guess you didn’t major in modesty, self absorbed prick.

Jason_F
4 years 9 months ago

drivel – noun
Definition of DRIVEL


2
: nonsense

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…

Jason_F
4 years 9 months ago

drivel – noun
Definition of DRIVEL


2
: nonsense

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black…

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

he wasnt even a prospect 11 years ago.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

but do you have a COLLEGE education?

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Only if he’s offered arbitration or if he signs with someone before the deadline. If the Padres don’t offer him arbitration, and if he signs later in the year or early next year, then they wouldn’t lose a pick

I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

what do you mean? thats exactly what it is. its arbitration and the team doesn’t have to offer him a contract. players are under team control for their first 6 years.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

Yup. Sad as it is to say, someone WILL pay the guy. He could very well stink up the join next year, but the guy absolutely has the stuff to perform. A lot of people think the biggest problem is mechanics. He changed his arm slot before the ’09 season in an effort to perserve his arm and he pretty much stopped using his secondary pitches. He could very well suddenly realize he’s in a contract year and stop messing around. I don’t expect him to put up a 2006 season again, mind you, but a 2008 era Papelbon is still better than the vast majority of other relievers.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

Where did I say there wasn’t a market for him?? But you cannot deny that he is grossly overpaid..

So if the Red Sox offer arbitration.. (which they won’t) He will get another raise from his expected 11 million dollar 2010 salary, probably around 12-13 million based on performance..

Do you honestly think anyone will pay Papelbon anywhere close to that?? No chance, those days of overpriced closers are done.. He will be lucky to get even half of that, not to mention any team that signs him will have to forfeit a draft pick in order to do so.

Sorry to say, but there is absolutely ZERO chance he is offered arbitration by the sox once he becomes a free agent, for the simple fact that he will accept.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

As outlined by others, Scutaro played through a rotator cuff injury pretty much all season last year. The team was aware of it, the whole time.

Fangaffes
4 years 9 months ago

Wow! Do you watch the games with the mute on? The reason he finished the year at 2B was because his arm hurt too much to throw from SS.

rsoxbob
4 years 9 months ago

He had a significant neck injury as well. His maladies weren’t exactly kept secret. He had a very good year when considering what he played through, and I hope he’s Boston’s everyday SS in 2011. None of the players being discussed in this thread is equal value for Scutaro (I’m not in love with the guy, but a middle reliever for an everyday SS is a bad trade unless you’re dumping a bad contract, which Scutaro’s isn’t).

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

Uribe is a type B. He doesn’t cost the Cards a pick, but nets the Giants a sandwich pick. The Cards don’t have much in the minors as far as infield depth, particularly at SS. Descalso and Cox pretty much sum up the list, and they’re 2B. Although a 3B just won their minor league hitter of the year. I think he’s still in AA though.

A few years of Uribe would provide some flexibility and security at multiple positions.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

You and the rest of MLB. Rasmus would require a similar haul as Upton. Scutaro would be an afterthought in that deal. The Sox would probably have to throw in Bard and a stud OF prospect as well just to get the conversation seriously started. Then there’s Scutaro’s money to talk about and probably another low-minors prospect with tremendous upside.

It’s certainly possible, but I don’t think the Sox would want to pay out that much talent for Rasmus.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

Colby is almost exactly 1 year older, yes, but more importantly for many clubs he has accrued less service time. And last year he put up a slightly better slash line than Upton (.50 better slugging, .05 better OBP, .5 better WAR). All this while seeing limited playing time due to his very ‘hands on’ manager.

StL will downplay clashes with management until the end of time. There’s no way that factors into this trade unless things totally blow up (Uggla-Ramirez style), which given the nature of the club, isn’t likely to happen (although certainly, no club is totally above these things).

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

you forgot the most important difference between Rasmus and Upton.. Rasmus comes without the contract.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

I think highly of him because of his talent, not because of the team he plays for. Actually, seeing him play day in and day out has led me to believe he’s a bit overhyped, actually. And I still think he’s got comparable talent to Upton.

The best offer published was laughed off by Cardinals management, that has to tell you something right there. The ChiSox were trying to sell high on Quentin and buy low on Rasmus. Nothing wrong with that, but the sides weren’t even close.

Clashes with management over playing time happen all the time. Even Pujols has clashed with LaRussa a time or two or ten (last year, prior all star game, etc…). It certainly doesn’t mean a player is getting traded for anything less than his value to the club, and Rasmus quite obviously means a lot to the Cardinals.

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

Very true. Although Rasmus will likely get paid 50 million over the next 5 years as well… he’s not even Arb eligible yet.

0bsessions
4 years 9 months ago

Read some Papelbon quotes over the last few years. Dude will most assuredly not accept arbitration. He’s been making it clear for years that he wants to hit the open market and set the bar for closer money and some team will be dumb enough to give him big bucks. If Benoit can get 3 years at like $16 mill, Papelbon can get what he’s looking for.

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

dude, do you understand how arbitration and free agency works. The Red Sox WILL offer him arbitration. It makes no sense not to… And his 2010 salary was 9M not 11M. His 2010 salary will be around 11M. Then he will be a free agent. And if Benoit gets 6M a year, Papelbon WILL get double that. Have you ever seen papelbon or know anything about him? He is one of the least knowledgeable people I have ever heard speak. Everything he EVER says is about how he wants to get a LONG-TERM contract and wants to be the highest paid closer in the game. He will want nothing to do with a 1 year contract. He WILL take the highest contract offer when he becomes a free agent, which he constantly says he will do. All the guy ever talks about is how much $ he wants to make, and he constantly says he wants to be paid like Rivera long-term

pedroiayouk
4 years 9 months ago

I think the Sox would give up talent for Rasmus if we aren’t able to get any of the big bats on the free agent market. Starting out with Ellsbury (and I guess Scutaro as a throw in), who else would the Cardinals want in return for Rasmus? We also have Lowrie (2B/SS/3B) and a good young LH SP in Doubront. We have other lower prospects at OF, 1B, SS, and P (Reddick/Anderson/Navarro/Bowden).

Redbirds16
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t really follow the BoSox’ prospects very well, so unfortunately I can’t give you names.

I think any team looking to land Upton or Rasmus will have to seriously overpay. Ellsbury and Scutaro is a good start in terms of covering the Cards 2011 needs, but at least one blue chip prospect would need to be thrown in, compensating for the years of a cost-controlled Rasmus. I think the Cards would be looking for an athletic, power-hitting outfielder (RF or CF), a stud SP, or a high upside SS. Also a little $ to cover a portion of Scutaro’s current contract. This would really shift the Cards’ offseason direction though. They’d need to replace Rasmus’ power in the lineup somehow. With limited financial mobility (and if they resign Pujols, even less) that’ll be hard to do with the current market.

Another option would be to see if Kyle Lohse would accept a trade to Boston (doubtful). If that’s true then the Sox can probably give up less in talent, but take on more salary. Thus giving the Cards more financial leeway to extend Pujols and sign a bat to replace Rasmus in the lineup.

Another thing to consider: Colby might not be happy in Boston. It’s far removed from his southern roots (although I think the clubhouse culture there might be more to his liking). There’s more to a player than just his talent and Colby might really need a certain kind of people around him to succeed.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

Wow talking to some of you red sox fans is like talking to my 2 year old daughter sometimes..
Honestly what does what HE thinks hes going to get paid actually matter to what teams will actually offer..

The reality is that there is NO, ZERO, ZILCH chance that a team offers him anywhere close to 10 million.. All big budget teams have closers already locked in, maybe sans yankees, but I doubt that happens. No team is going to give Papelbon that kind of money anymore, those days of double digit millions for closers per year are long gone..

What your also forgetting is that a team has to forfeit a pick to sign him, which also lowers his value as teams are pretty reluctant to sign type A free agents, benoit was a type B which added to his value. . Papelbon will get 13 million roughly in 2012 from arbitration, no chance he declines it, therefore no chance its offered to him..

but your as stubborn as a mule so i dont expect you to even try to comprehend.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

benoit = type B free agent.. wait to see the market for Soriano then talk