The Orioles officially announced that they signed Kevin Gregg to a two-year deal. The contract will pay Gregg $10MM and includes an option, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (all Twitter links). The vesting option would bring the total value of the deal to the $16-20MM range, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). Beverly Hills Sports Council represents the right-hander.
Gregg saved 37 games for the Blue Jays in 2010. The 32-year-old posted 8.8 K/9 and 4.6 BB/9 along with a 3.51 ERA. Koji Uehara, another candidate to close for Buck Showalter, posted a miniscule 1.0 BB/9 to go along with 11.3 K/9 in 2010.
Jim Johnson, Mike Gonzalez and another former Blue Jay, Jeremy Accardo, will also likely contribute out of the Orioles' 'pen in 2011. Alfredo Simon is currently involved in an investigation into a fatal shooting in the Dominican Republic, so it's not clear whether he'll be able to pitch.
The Blue Jays will obtain a draft pick for losing Gregg, but the Orioles do not have to surrender one. Toronto amateur scouting director Andrew Tinnish now has seven of the top 72 picks in the 2011 draft.
The Orioles could still use a left-handed reliever and a starter who can eat innings at the back of the team's rotation.
lol
I like what the Orioles have done this offseason – they have a solid lineup and tons of young pitching talent with a decent bullpen. While I still expect them to be 5th, an 83-87 win 3rd place season isn’t that far off.
Will Gregg or Gonzalez close, Orioles fans? I don’t know much about Gonzalez but I hope for your sake he’s a better option than Gregg.
orioles are terrible, all the prospects they have built up have flopped and under achieve..
They are terrible team who’s future looks no where as bright as the royals, pirates and nats in terms of prospects
Brian Matusz is terrible, right?
And let’s give up on Matt Wieters. He’s way too old to have a break out year. All catching prospects are studs by the time they’re 24.
In that vein, let’s give up on Jake Arrieta and Brad Bergesen as well. And Chris Tillman, even though he’s only 23.
And who cares about prospects? In two sentences, you talk about O’s prospects flopping and then give props to Royals, Pirates and Nats prospects. Since when is any prospect a sure thing?
I’ve given up on Machado since he’s 18 and hasn’t made it to the majors yet. Not impressed.
i hope people can see through the sarcasm
That’s not sarcasm.
i hope your comment is sarcasm
The difference is that the orioles prospects have had chances to prove and establish themselves and failed to do that..
I like Wieters and Matusz, but I think both will fail to live up to the expectations that fans and media have set on them. .
The rebuild has been terrible, they have a decent core, but by the time some of their prospects actually start to contribute on a major league level, guys like Markekis & Jones will be out the door.
I’m not a hater, but whether you want to admit it or not, the future is not bright in baltimore.
the future is not right in baltimore? really….. because toronto is gonna be a force to be reckoned with?
what does that have to do with anything?
why do you feel that my point isn’t valid based on the success of the team i route for?? Thats a highly flawed response and argument
based on that, I chose to not response to your idiotic comment, because, much like you, its irrelevant
so sensitive. im not saying the o’s are world series contenders. im just saying they have a legit shot at finishing in third. its just funny because a blue jays fan telling orioles fan that their future isnt bright is like a 350 pound guy telling a 400 pound guy that he is fat
The future is actually pretty bright in TO.
but the 400 pound guy is fatter
I think the difference here is that the 400 pound guy is eating slightly less McDonalds every day while telling his friends he’s going to get thin, and the 350 pound guy has a personal trainer, a new diet, and a serious workout regimen while telling his friends they’ve got to be patient until he’s super ripped.
analogy of the day
analogy of the day
All of a sudden I’ve lost any cravings for McDonalds.
All of a sudden I’ve lost any cravings for McDonalds.
Well done.
Well done.
That analogy was so 5 posts ago.
That analogy was so 5 posts ago.
Hilarious.
Don’t mind him. He’s a Jays troll. He regularly pops into Baltimore news just to post how bad he thinks the Os are. He’s entitled to his opinion. You’re right though. Essentially it’s some kind of weird turf war over the #4 slot in the division, that he’s arguing from.
yeah its kind of funny actually. i think we all can agree the red sox have that division won. im from bmore and now live in la. so i do have an interest in the orioles.
Don’t mind him. He’s a Jays troll. He regularly pops into Baltimore news just to post how bad he thinks the Os are. He’s entitled to his opinion. You’re right though. Essentially it’s some kind of weird turf war over the #4 slot in the division, that he’s arguing from.
Perfect response! The Al East could potentially have all 5 teams finish .500 or better IMO!
Perfect response! The Al East could potentially have all 5 teams finish .500 or better IMO!
so sensitive. im not saying the o’s are world series contenders. im just saying they have a legit shot at finishing in third. its just funny because a blue jays fan telling orioles fan that their future isnt bright is like a 350 pound guy telling a 400 pound guy that he is fat
Doubting Wieters is understandable, but only because of the massive amount of hype that literally everyone associated with baseball placed on his shoulders.
And what is it about Matusz that makes you think he’s not going to live up to expectations? His 3.63 ERA in the second half of 2010 (2.18 in his final 11 starts) or the fact that you’re obviously a biased Blue Jays fan?
What does me being a blue jay fan have to do with my assessment of baltimore? It’s not like they are the yankees or the red sox and I have had to deal with the behemoths of baseball and grown a hate for them. Its the Orioles, if it were up to me I would love for them to be successful but they are not.
And granted your point on Matusz is valid, and as I said I do like him. However he is only one player, the Orioles depth or lack there of is the concerning part for me.
Do you envision them being out of the basement, 4/5 in the AL east in the next 5 years?
Sure.
I can easily see Matusz putting up a 3.50ish ERA and winning 15+ games in 2011. Add another sub-4.00 ERA season from Jeremy Guthrie and a bit more progress from Jake Arrieta and Brad Bergesen and that’s the start of a solid rotation. I do think that finding a veteran to fill out the rotation will be huge. Throwing Chris Tillman into the fire again would be a huge mistake, and Zach Britton should stay in AAA for at least half of 2011.
Next, look at the massive offensive upgrades. Check out the O’s 2010 production from first, short and third in 2010:
First: .226/.289/.336, 11 HR
Short: .236/.277/.272, 1 HR
Third: .260/.290/.378, 16 HR
Derrek Lee, J.J. Hardy and Mark Reynolds will be absolutely ridiculous upgrades at those positions. And adding Lee and Reynolds to the middle of the lineup makes Nick Markakis that much better. And it takes a lot of pressure off Matt Wieters and Adam Jones. And it makes a repeat more likely for Luke Scott.
I really do think that, if things go right in 2011, the O’s could win 85 games. And 85 wins could be enough proof for Peter Angelos that they’re only a slugger and a starter away from winning the division. That could make Prince Fielder and trading for an ace a real possibility.
So, do I envision the O’s climbing out of the basement in the next five years? Sure, why not?
Great post,
I agree that things are looking better, but much like being a Jay fan, you need to add the AL east factor in to future projections
I mean even at its peak, a rotation of Matusz, Guthrie, Bergesen and Arriata might never be good enough to be 3rd best within the division..
I just think that the Orioles haven’t drafted enough high ceiling talent, they haven’t taken enough chances with their picks, and because of that they get very good or very decent major leaguers, but within the division, that only gets you so far..
With the re tooling that the Sox have done, the young core the rays have and lets be serious here, the yanks were shut out this offseason, which means next offseason they are probably going to go buck wild.
I think perhaps in a nother division 2 or 3 years with 1 or 2 more impact bats and a bonafide top of the rotation starter and the O’s can be a threat, but in this division, I just don’t see the talent maturing to the point that it needs to in order to be AL East champs
You’ve got to factor in the AL East for sure.
And you’re right about the Yankees, but even they have a limit. There isn’t much on the 2012 market that fits the Yankees needs (pitching pitching pitching), unless you think Mark Buerhle or Edwin Jackson can make a difference in their rotation.
It’s been tossed out there, but will the Yanks really spend for Fielder ($160MM) or Pujols ($300MM) to DH? Especially since they’re going to have to use that DH spot for Rodriguez and Jeter in the coming years.
And I see the Rays as in the same position as the Orioles now, except that they have Evan Longoria. Who’s supplying 30+ homers at first base for Tampa? Who’s their top of the lineup threat who plays excellent left field defense? Sure, Price/Garza/Shields/Davis/Hellickson/Niemann etc are a top shelf group of starters, but can they afford to hang on to Garza through his arbitration years? Will Hellickson and/or Davis pan out?
Boston looks like the top dog for the next several years to me. With those team friendly extensions for Lester, Pedroia and Youkilis, they won’t have any problem extending Adrian Gonzalez. And Buchholz isn’t a free agent until, when, 2015? Add Crawford to that bunch and what a core they’ve got there…
The real shot for Baltimore (or Toronto or Tampa) is the wild card. Sure, the O’s (or the Jays or the Rays) may not be able to surpass Boston, but can they be better than the second place team in the Central and the West? I’m going to go with “yes”.
Time will tell. good talk, see you out there
Time will tell. good talk, see you out there
You’ve got to factor in the AL East for sure.
And you’re right about the Yankees, but even they have a limit. There isn’t much on the 2012 market that fits the Yankees needs (pitching pitching pitching), unless you think Mark Buerhle or Edwin Jackson can make a difference in their rotation.
It’s been tossed out there, but will the Yanks really spend for Fielder ($160MM) or Pujols ($300MM) to DH? Especially since they’re going to have to use that DH spot for Rodriguez and Jeter in the coming years.
And I see the Rays as in the same position as the Orioles now, except that they have Evan Longoria. Who’s supplying 30+ homers at first base for Tampa? Who’s their top of the lineup threat who plays excellent left field defense? Sure, Price/Garza/Shields/Davis/Hellickson/Niemann etc are a top shelf group of starters, but can they afford to hang on to Garza through his arbitration years? Will Hellickson and/or Davis pan out?
Boston looks like the top dog for the next several years to me. With those team friendly extensions for Lester, Pedroia and Youkilis, they won’t have any problem extending Adrian Gonzalez. And Buchholz isn’t a free agent until, when, 2015? Add Crawford to that bunch and what a core they’ve got there…
The real shot for Baltimore (or Toronto or Tampa) is the wild card. Sure, the O’s (or the Jays or the Rays) may not be able to surpass Boston, but can they be better than the second place team in the Central and the West? I’m going to go with “yes”.
85 wins would require alot to go right in the AL EAST. I could see 80 wins.
What does me being a blue jay fan have to do with my assessment of baltimore? It’s not like they are the yankees or the red sox and I have had to deal with the behemoths of baseball and grown a hate for them. Its the Orioles, if it were up to me I would love for them to be successful but they are not.
And granted your point on Matusz is valid, and as I said I do like him. However he is only one player, the Orioles depth or lack there of is the concerning part for me.
Do you envision them being out of the basement, 4/5 in the AL east in the next 5 years?
Agreed on Wieters and Matusz, xub. The Wieters hype was re-donkulous! Seriously, if he lives up to half the FBB/media hype, he’ll be a perennial All-Star. 😉
If he turns out to be .280/.360/.460 hitter (what’s that, like a quarter of the hype?), he could be a perennial All Star.
I wouldn’t paint the O’s future with doom and gloom at all. I like the moves they’ve made this off-season. And look at how well the 2010 team played under Showalter. I consider myself unbiased – not a big O’s fan or hata – I just love baseball. Period. And as a baseball fan, I’m excited to see how 2011 plays out.
If the Orioles are trash then the Jays are a landfill. Just saying.
LOL
you should submit a resume to the blue collar comedy tour with knee slappers like that!
hey orioles look like an improving team, but only for 2011 at the moment. they seem to lack a really good farm system. all that can change in a year tho, as the jays have shown.
hopefully with some decent starts to the year they can flip some of the guys they have acquired for some real premium prospects
So who are the prospects who haven’t established themselves? Matusz? He only went 7-3 with a 3.63 ERA in the second half last year, and is 15-14 with a 4.37 ERA for his very young career. Kid is only 23…how has he failed to establish himself? I think those numbers indicate a very bright future…
So then let’s look at Jake Arrieta, who hasn’t even HAD a chance to establish himself yet with just a half season in the bigs under his belt. He posted a respectable 4.66 ERA and a 6-6 record once he was called up. But he’s 24, I guess he’s only going to get worse.
Brad Bergesen has a very respectable 4.33 ERA on his young career. And this is even factoring in an abominable first half of 2010 which I’m not paying too much attention to, he did not have his pitches working the way he is capable of. He had a great 2009 before going down with that shin injury, and finished 2010 very, very strong. I think it’s safe to say he’s got some future in the big leagues.
Oh, and Wieters. What to say. Surely he had a disappointing year in 2010. But in no way, shape or form should he be written off as a bust. He’s only 23 as well, and he had a solid rookie campaign. He also finished the 2010 season strong offensively, hitting .282 over the last month.
Adam Jones has been a consistent 20 HR/70 RBI guy and has a gold glove. I can live with him not being a 30 HR/100 RBI guy. I guess he’s terrible though.
Can you please give me some examples of prospects who..and I’m quoting you here…”have had chances to prove and establish themselves and failed to do that”? I really, really hate when people make claims and don’t back them up with any facts.
But all of the above surely points out how terrible the Orioles young core is. And “Markekis” as you call him…has been nothing short of a failure, obviously.
Someone is upset that we took Gregg from him…
Yeah like that Markakis guy…
yah, lucky one player makes a team
yah, lucky one player makes a team
Yeah like that Markakis guy…
Truthfully, I still expect Koji Uehara to be the closer as long as he stays healthy. Gregg and Gonzalez will likely battle for the opportunities on the days when Koji is unavailable to go. I’m doubtful Buck is the kind of manager who takes a guy out of the closer role who never walks people for someone who does.
Buck is also the guy who hates giving people “titles”. Gonzo against lefties, Koji against righties. Which makes this move just that more puzzling.
True. I think Buck would rather have the more experience he can get at the back of the bullpen in general. Especially if Johnson goes down again and Berken’s issues aren’t over.
There’s some joke here about him being murder in the pen.
Dislike.
Good for you.
Thanks.
Good for you.
he’s not bad as a reliever. He’s just bad as a closer
Agreed Frank, because Kevin Gregg doesn’t have “closer stuff”! We all saw evidence of this as he imploded in the closer role with both Florida in ’08 and Chicago in “09. He’ll be an ok reliever when there’s nothing at stake
Gregg definitely has closer stuff. It is just not clear whether he has closer control or the mental endurance to be sharp day after day.
There are at least 50 guys in the bigs that fit that description.
I personally don’t believe in the mental aspect for players. Players are either good or they aren’t. Manny Ramirez is said to be a headcase, yet he’s had a HoF career because of his talent.
Gregg walks too many batters, and only has one great pitch – his fastball.
Gregg definitely has closer stuff. It is just not clear whether he has closer control or the mental endurance to be sharp day after day.
The Orioles picked a weird time to go “all in” considering the Red Sox are overloaded in 2011 and the Yankees still look strong. Even the Rays won’t be horrible. The O’s would be luck to finish 3rd.
How are they going all in? Signing Lee to keep first base warm, trading for Reynolds who will be here for a while, and trading for Hardy because SS was empty doesn’t sound like all in type moves.
The O’s are going “all in”?
They’ve traded relief prospects to fill gaping holes at short and third, signed a stop-gap first baseman and one relief pitcher.
If that’s their way of going “all in”, ugh…
The Os are hardly “all-in”. Theyve signed a lot of guys but it’s all basically cheap short term contracts. There isn’t anyone beyond 2 years contracts, or very expensive either.
It’s not like there’s going to be a better time in the near future. I don’t see the Sox and Yanks falling off into mediocrity any time soon.
“All in” would be offering huge deals to Lee, Crawford and Beltre. I’d call this “toes in.”
“All in” would be offering huge deals to Lee, Crawford and Beltre. I’d call this “toes in.”
Move Luke Scott to Left, sign Vlad as the DH and WORLD F’ng SERIES MAN!
i think as long as brian roberts stays healthy and the young rotation steps up, this team can be be the rays of 08. i know reynolds strikes out a lot but his power bat along with lee, markakis, jones and weiters is gonna be deadly
guess instead of 15-3 the jays will go the full 18-0 for the O’s next year
Right… Because the Orioles haven’t improved at all and the Jays got sooooo much better when they traded Marcum and didn’t do anything else.
They have improved because Bautista will improve and hit 70 HRs in 2011.
Bautista hit 70 HR? His career average is less than 1/4 that…Jays would be happy if he hits 30HR this year
John stefan meet sarcasm…. sarcasm this is John Stefan
it was just a joke at Gregg’s expense. stop being so defensive all the time
it was just a joke at Gregg’s expense. stop being so defensive all the time
is this sarcasm?
no its a colorful picture of a mountain
i thought so
no its a colorful picture of a mountain
Stop underestimating the Orioles. While Gregg is not a great signing, it’s minimal risk. It’s only for 2 years at a reasonable cost.
Orioles may surprise a few people next season.
The jays had him for 2 years 8 mill…. wonder if he could of got better value then a comp pick if he were to be traded with both those options picked up…
Problem with that, Jays take a risk because what if he has a bad year? Then no pick and you wouldn’t receive much. Besides, having a pick in one of the strongest draft class might be more value than some prospect with minimal upside.
they could of shopped him before the options kicked in ship him to a team for him at 1/4 which is a huge discount, or if they want him at 2/10
Just sign the rest of the available BP free agents and get it over with.
The Os have really added a lot of solid complimentary parts this offseason. They always had the strong young core, but didn’t quite have the veteran pieces to help their development along. The real proof of this offseason’s work will be seen in the performance of Matusz, other young guns, Markakis, Wieters, Jones.
This team can not and will not be the Rays of 08 unless three things happen: Adam Jones and Matt Wieters must suddenly become superstars, and Matsuz must become a legitimate ace. The possibility of all three of these things happening this year are remote, although the Orioles are putting themselves in good position for the future.
I remember a lot of people saying similar things about Jimenez, Tulo, and CarGo last year. Not saying that it WILL happen, but to suggest it just CAN’T happen is also not accurate.
How much farther does Jones have to go to be a star? He has a pretty decent foundation to work with already. Matusz showed a spectacular second half, final two months that was among the best in baseball. Wieters came to the bigs with more acclaim and track record than CarGo did (as good as it was). If we take his current progress into account, he’s following somewhere ahead of most quality catchers, and shy of Mauer level at the same age. People forget that it took Mauer 5 yrs to really get on track to how we think of him today.
I understand the move but I’m not exactly worried if I’m the opposing team when Kevin Gregg takes the mound in a one run game.
To be honest, outside of Mariano Rivera, there aren’t many bullpen pitchers in the AL East period I’d be exactly worried about coming in during a one-run game.
Bard is a great bullpen arm
He was a great bullpen arm last year, no doubt. But he hasn’t been around long enough to make me tremble if I’m an opposing hitter. He needs a little more track record before that.
you mean not worried right?
I suppose it was confusing the way I twisted the play on chuck’s “not exactly worried”. I just meant, in the AL East there are FEW bullpen pitchers the opposing team doesn’t feel they have much of a chance against when it’s only a one-run game.
Bard and Rivera. Everybody else, a meltdown is a very realistic possibility.
He probably won’t be doing that much. He’s effectively a middle reliever, and probably about third on the closer depth chart. If Koji gets injured, the Orioles will probably just use Gonzalez and Gregg to combine to rape left handed and right handed hitters.
jones and weiters will have a better season hitting before or after lee. since the o’s have added a lot of thunder in their lineup, markakis, jones and weiters will see better pitches. lee is no manny but kemp and ethier were mashers hitting in front of him.
Yes he is and he had a wonderful season last year. But personally, I’d need to see him put together a little bit more of a track record before I’m putting him in Rivera’s category. I’m not ready to give it to Bard after a year plus.
I’m a pretty big jays fan and ill tell Baltimore fans this:
Kevin Gregg is NOT a closer, last year about 20/32 saves gave me a heart attack before he closed it out
I have to give the guy credit though, when he’s rested his stuff his nasty.
On a totally different note the the Jays have 7 draft picks in the top 72 picks, YAY!
They also have Brett Lowrie, Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose, Deck Mcguire, Adeiny Hechavarria, Zach Stewart, J.P. Arencebia, Travis D’Arnaud, and Gustavo Pierre
It’s safe to say the future is bright
You missed one of their most highly-regarded prospects: Carlos Perez. Things are exciting in TO.
You missed one of their most highly-regarded prospects: Carlos Perez. Things are exciting in TO.
I’m a pretty big jays fan and ill tell Baltimore fans this:
Kevin Gregg is NOT a closer, last year about 20/32 saves gave me a heart attack before he closed it out
I have to give the guy credit though, when he’s rested his stuff his nasty.
On a totally different note the the Jays have 7 draft picks in the top 72 picks, YAY!
They also have Brett Lowrie, Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose, Deck Mcguire, Adeiny Hechavarria, Zach Stewart, J.P. Arencebia, Travis D’Arnaud, and Gustavo Pierre
It’s safe to say the future is bright
The jays had him for 2 years 8 mill…. wonder if he could of got better value then a comp pick if he were to be traded with both those options picked up…
It’s been a solid off-season for the O’s; particularly when you consider the difficulty McPhail must run into when attempting to sign the bigger names out there. With no cache’ (like say, the Rays…now that is) and playing in what is easily the most difficult division in baseball, against the richest teams in the game…it’s surely no easy task to convince the Carl Crawfords or even the Victor Martinez’s of the world to join up with the Birds. What McPhail was able to do via trades, then, was pretty impressive. I don’t agree that we’re looking at a Rays-like jump into contention, but it’s a step in the right direction made without sacrificing the future. None of the players/prospects dealt in the Reynolds/Hardy deals were particularly significant building blocks (though I liked David Hernandez a bit) and the contracts signed or picked up were short-term and/or relatively modest (by baseball standards, that is). It will be interesting to see how the young guys develop this coming season- what, with a full year with Buck at the helm and a surrounding cast of veteran professionals. Markakis, Jones, Pie, Wieters, Matusz, Arrieta, Bergeson, Tillman… It will be a fascinating and critical year for all. I think by season’s end, we’ll have a real idea what we’ve got in these kids (OK, Markakis has been around and producing for a while, but I still think the presences of Reynolds, Hardy, and Lee could influence his numbers in ways we’ve yet to see from him)- for better or worse. I think .500 would be a real achievement and would demonstrate positive progression for this franchise under McPhail and Showwalter, respectively. Anything more would be gravy. Even so, I think the likelihood of their finishing last in the East is, once again, quite high. For this reason, while I’ll be watching the O’s, I probably won’t be watching the standings.
Agree. The O’s won’t be the ‘easy’ series for the big boys anymore. This is really good as far as the competition in the AL east this year.The O’s will take a few more games from all the division members and make the race a whole lot closer this year. As a baseball fan, I’m happy for them and their fans.
Do you have a enter bar on your keyboard?
cmon, the O’s are not saying this moves makes them a world series contender, they are making the club better. A new proven manager, a young nucleus with potential, a couple of veteran types playing for a contract, and a solid bullpen. With a solid major league pitcher this team really could at least play above .500 baseball which could be a catapult for next year. Angelos will spend money once he is convinced the O’s have a shot at winning. The O’s have done a very formidable job this offseason and I think a couple of moves will still be made.
Please don’t sign Soriano though as he will cost to much and not be the difference between making or not making the playoffs. Would like to see Millwood signed again for maybe a 1/5 mil deal to be the number 3 or 4 in the rotation. Go O’s.
I think Kevin Millwood would rather retire than suffer through the AL East again.
I can easily see him with the Mets, Oakland or Kansas City.
felt bad for millwood, he was posting decent numbers at the beginning of the season but i think the losing got to him. after the all star break his numbers came back a bit too, still a worthwhile pitcher in my books
cmon, the O’s are not saying this moves makes them a world series contender, they are making the club better. A new proven manager, a young nucleus with potential, a couple of veteran types playing for a contract, and a solid bullpen. With a solid major league pitcher this team really could at least play above .500 baseball which could be a catapult for next year. Angelos will spend money once he is convinced the O’s have a shot at winning. The O’s have done a very formidable job this offseason and I think a couple of moves will still be made.
Please don’t sign Soriano though as he will cost to much and not be the difference between making or not making the playoffs. Would like to see Millwood signed again for maybe a 1/5 mil deal to be the number 3 or 4 in the rotation. Go O’s.
Gregg is an interesting sign. At $5M, does that give him first dibs on the CP spot? Would like to know more info. Uehara did well in the CP role last year. Gonzalez has been an effective CP in the past. That gives them three potential CP candidates. I’m wondering if this was a move not only for depth, but possibly with the thought of using one of the three as trade-bait at the 2011 deadline.
Orioles are relying on players the quality of Matusz, Wieters, etc. So we all know where they will end up in the standings with that level of talent.
The Orioles gave an average player Markakis 15 million per free agent season. Next, Gonzalez got hurt and they got nothing out of him.
The Orioles are reactionary. They think a great bullpen will turn their fortunes around like San Diego. A few years ago they did the youth movement modeled after Tampa Bay. They only problem is the Orioles don’t have any talent. Gregg is a good arm to have in settup/closing.
What are you talking about?
This isn’t about modeling the team after the 2010 Padres. It’s about re-filling the bullpen after trading four relievers for a left side of the infield.
And the O’s aren’t trying to copy the Rays. They O’s been on the “youth movement” plan since 1998. It’s just that they’ve had some of the most incompetent GM’s in baseball history (Thrift, Flanagan, Duquette) running the show. Not that Andy MacPhail is much better…
PS – Adding Derrek Lee and Mark Reynolds to the middle of the lineup will most likely bring out vintage 2008 Nick Markakis (think .300/.400/.480).
Buck had a .596% in 57 games last year, I think your under rating this team with the upgrades they obtained.
Orioles are relying on players the quality of Matusz, Wieters, etc. So we all know where they will end up in the standings with that level of talent.
The Orioles gave an average player Markakis 15 million per free agent season. Next, Gonzalez got hurt and they got nothing out of him.
The Orioles are reactionary. They think a great bullpen will turn their fortunes around like San Diego. A few years ago they did the youth movement modeled after Tampa Bay. They only problem is the Orioles don’t have any talent. Gregg is a good arm to have in settup/closing.
The Os now have a bullpen that includes 5 relievers with double-digit closing experience. Nice support for the young rotation. Maybe we’ll see less of a overworked bad pen give up inherited runners to score, and hurt the young arms develop?
P.S. Snider called and wants his username back.
P.S. Snider called and wants his username back.
Really? Cause I’m pretty sure what you said is that this team has no hope. That’s different from “not competitive right now.”
If there is one thing I learned from this thread it is that there are several close minded baseball fans. I don’t see how anyone can say the orioles are not improved or the future is not bright. Just because their prospects didn’t break with stellar careers out of the gate doesn’t mean they can’t develop into above-average or great major leaguers. Orioles fans know they have their work ahead of them with this division and they have taken great steps towards addressing this. The players they signed this offseason fill positional needs. No one is claiming that they signed the best players at their respective position, but at the same time no one can claim that the players they did sign are not great upgrades… they are! Yes being a blue jays fan can mean having a bias, which in turn will alter your view on other teams in your own division. Based on your statements this appears to be the case. I don’t like how straw man argument everything and try to dismiss other peoples valid points. With names like Wieters, Jones, Arrieta, Britton, Tillman, Bergesen, Bell, Reimold, Pie, and Machado. it is asinine to say their future is not bright. Will all their prospects pan out? no, that is why they are prospects. Don’t fool yourself, the Orioles may not have the deepest of pockets, but they have the ability to hand out larger contracts than you may think. What is the purpose of throwing out a huge contract to a player if your team is not ready to contend? As a Blue Jays fan you should know this the most… BJ Ryan, Vernon Wells (great in 2010), Burnett? Those contracts didn’t get you very far. Look for the Orioles to sign legitimate stars when they have the ability to contend, but not Yankee dollars. The future is bright and be open minded… I don’t see anyone saying the Orioles are a lock to be the next best team.
glad the jays got rid of gregg before he had the chance to wear out his welcome even more.
O’s fans can only hope for the same
I think the O’s are the most improved team in the East, and I think people are discounting the Buck factor. Look what this guy did last year when he took over. With the additions at 1b, SS, 3b and relief I think they will surprise people this year.
I wonder who will wear out their welcome first, Gregg or Showalter? I think the Orioles have made some mediocre moves, in a powerhouse division.
O’s have definitely made themselves better this off-season, there’s no doubting that, but lets be honest here they didn’t add enough to compete this year in the AL East (not with Boston or the Yanks, that’s for sure) and they didn’t do anything to brighten their future. Lee is 35 years old and is a stop gap coming off a mediocre season, Reynolds was a nice pick up but he still has to prove he can hit over .230, but it will nice for the O’s to add that kind of pop to a powerless lineup of last year. Hardy is a nice defensive upgrade, but lets remember that his career OBP is .320. They almost look like the Jays on offense (a lot of HR’s and only a few guys that take walks), but to me Toronto has much better pitching going into next year. Anyways, this isn’t a comparison between the two clubs. Matusz and Weiters are two guys I look to break out next year, and if they do that will go a long way in making this O’s team immediately better, a long with in the future. To be quite honest, I don’t really like the rest of their pitching prospects (yes I know theyre young, but it’s just my opinion), so they will need to add at least one, probably two more starters over the next few years for them to even think about contending with the big dogs in the division.
As for the Gregg signing…I don’t like the signing, as I don’t think he’s worth 5mil over two years, but the O’s obviously felt they needed another power arm down in the pen, perhaps he will be their set up man, where he could be more effective.
O’s have definitely made themselves better this off-season, there’s no doubting that, but lets be honest here they didn’t add enough to compete this year in the AL East (not with Boston or the Yanks, that’s for sure) and they didn’t do anything to brighten their future. Lee is 35 years old and is a stop gap coming off a mediocre season, Reynolds was a nice pick up but he still has to prove he can hit over .230, but it will nice for the O’s to add that kind of pop to a powerless lineup of last year. Hardy is a nice defensive upgrade, but lets remember that his career OBP is .320. They almost look like the Jays on offense (a lot of HR’s and only a few guys that take walks), but to me Toronto has much better pitching going into next year. Anyways, this isn’t a comparison between the two clubs. Matusz and Weiters are two guys I look to break out next year, and if they do that will go a long way in making this O’s team immediately better, a long with in the future. To be quite honest, I don’t really like the rest of their pitching prospects (yes I know theyre young, but it’s just my opinion), so they will need to add at least one, probably two more starters over the next few years for them to even think about contending with the big dogs in the division.
As for the Gregg signing…I don’t like the signing, as I don’t think he’s worth 5mil over two years, but the O’s obviously felt they needed another power arm down in the pen, perhaps he will be their set up man, where he could be more effective.
He was awful in for the Cubs. My fondest memory of Kevin Gregg is one Darryl Ward absolutely crushing a ball to give the Cubs a comeback win in’08. Little did I know he would be bringing those memories to me every other outing in ’09. His ex Marlin’s team mates returned the favor with back to back home runs to win a game in ’09.
I was hoping Toronto could have brought in Reynolds to play 3rd, he fits right into their mold and could perhaps hit 45HR’s in Toronto. Was kind of dissapointed when I saw he went to the O’s, as I really like him as a player, and if he can hit around .240 he should post a decent OBP which Toronto could also use desperately. He also would probably play better D at 3rd than either EE or Bautista would.
I was hoping Toronto could have brought in Reynolds to play 3rd, he fits right into their mold and could perhaps hit 45HR’s in Toronto. Was kind of dissapointed when I saw he went to the O’s, as I really like him as a player, and if he can hit around .240 he should post a decent OBP which Toronto could also use desperately. He also would probably play better D at 3rd than either EE or Bautista would.
WOW possibly 16-20 million for kevin gregg? baltimore must really have to overpay for mediocrity.
I hope, for the Orioles sake, that the vesting option is an unattainable one. The one thing Gregg does very well is stay healthy, and options are always based on __ games finished, __ appearances etc.
WOW possibly 16-20 million for kevin gregg? baltimore must really have to overpay for mediocrity.
When did Jay’s fans become so talkative? I guess being mediocre in a tough division will do that to you…
When did Jay’s fans become so talkative? I guess being mediocre in a tough division will do that to you…
I dig the O’s moves as they are good moves for a team like the Orioles. We don’t need flashy high priced contracts a year after almost losing 100 games, we need to gradually improve and hope one of our young stars will have breakout seasons.
you see, theres this thing called small sample size. maybe you’ve heard of it?
mariners fans are worse
we’ve got enough low AVG OBP high SLG guys
Who are you talking to?
this shouldn’t be news, but disqus is very retarded
Just one note: Jason Frasor must be kicking himself for accepting arbitration. If Gregg can get $10m with a vesting option, Frasor could surely do better than 1yr at ~$3.5m.
Disagree because I don’t think anybody would go near Frasor with his Type A status. I like the improvements the O’s have made. Having the worse team replace positions that basically produced no offense for them with Hardy, Lee, Reynolds will make a significant difference I think. It should be an exciting year in the AL East come 2011.
Disagree- there are enough teams out there with protected 1st round picks (like, say, the Baltimore Orioles) or who have already signed higher-ranked type-A relievers for Frasor to have had a pretty good market for his services.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. Frasor is a good reliever. But I don’t know if teams would value him enough to lose a pick (protected or not). It’s a pretty deep draft this year, I think low teams would rather roll the dice on a pick to become a star than a solid reliever. But it can go both ways. Solid reliever = MLB proven. Prospect = roll of the dicen
Always happy to disagree with a gentleman. I think a second-rounder isn’t valued that highly, though I may be wrong. Perhaps the worst thing for Frasor was that, due to his type-A status, he might have had to wait until other, higher-ranked type-As were signed before many teams would become suitors. Earlier in the off-season, it may not have been apparent that the market would remain so robust.
What exactly does “blue jays will receive a pick but orioles don’t have to give up one” mean? Who gives up the pick then?
Everybody give LUNCHBOX45 a hand for instigating an unnecessary attack on the O’s! Way to ruin a post!
Everybody give LUNCHBOX45 a hand for instigating an unnecessary attack on the O’s! Way to ruin a post!
It could happen. A playoff run will buy Angelos a little credibility for him to gut them team and cry poverty for the next 10 years.
You should probably get your blood pressure checked.
No I’m just pissed bc I spent 20 min writing a comment about the 25 guys that will be on an opening day roster and they have deleted it twice in two different formats. Guess they want to use my knowledge for their own benefit.
No I’m just pissed bc I spent 20 min writing a comment about the 25 guys that will be on an opening day roster and they have deleted it twice in two different formats. Guess they want to use my knowledge for their own benefit.
Ok… you need a psychiatrist. Tell him you have paranoia issues.
Ok… you need a psychiatrist. Tell him you have paranoia issues.
If at first you don’t succeed… try the outfield.
(Be nice to the moderator Gods!)
No need. Dr. Lincecum will just smoke weed and ease the pressure.
Heres an idea make a list of your favorite teams top 25 with about 5 others that could make the opening day cut, post it on this page and watch it get deleted…
Personally I prefer Irish whiskey. Tastier, cheaper, and less illegal.
Personally I prefer Irish whiskey. Tastier, cheaper, and less illegal.
Single malt Scotch for me PLEASE!
Probably not cheaper
maybe you just have to much time on your hands. .
Why would the mods delete it? Too long of a post?
The Orioles have had a fantastic offseason considering their limited resources and divisional situation. You can’t argue that. Whether or not you think the Orioles don’t have a bright future, you can’t deny that McPhail has done an excellent job of seriously improving a cellar dweller with almost nothing to work with. Lee is a huge upgrade at first. Hardy is a huge offensive and significant defensive upgrade at short. Mark Reynolds has a 3 WAR bat. I wouldn’t be surprised if Adam Jones finally exploded this year. Uehara and Gregg are also solid bullpen anchors. Don’t be bitter and closeminded just because you’re afraid they might finish ahead of Toronto this year. All you have done in this thread is bash the Orioles with no support for your claims.
The Orioles have had a fantastic offseason considering their limited resources and divisional situation. You can’t argue that. Whether or not you think the Orioles don’t have a bright future, you can’t deny that McPhail has done an excellent job of seriously improving a cellar dweller with almost nothing to work with. Lee is a huge upgrade at first. Hardy is a huge offensive and significant defensive upgrade at short. Mark Reynolds has a 3 WAR bat. I wouldn’t be surprised if Adam Jones finally exploded this year. Uehara and Gregg are also solid bullpen anchors. Don’t be bitter and closeminded just because you’re afraid they might finish ahead of Toronto this year. All you have done in this thread is bash the Orioles with no support for your claims.
lol so far the only response to my original claim is that oh your a blue jay fan, so your biased..
its hard NOT to improve a bad team, I’m not saying that hasn’t been done..
what I’m saying is I dont see the foundation of a competitive playoff team right now.
Like we saw with Texas a few years back.
Uehara is solid when he is healthy. I seriously beg to differ with the addition of Gregg. Ask a fan of any team that has endured him as a closer.. Fish, Cubs, maybe even some Jays fans. This guy is the epitome of “tightrope” specialist around. His FB is not that hard, his command never was very good and his slider was never a good pitch to begin with, even if he does manage to get ahead in the count to get batters to chase after it, why teams are glad to bid him good bye after a season or 2.
If the O’s were going to go out and blow 10m on a closer, might as well have spent double that on someone like Soriano that could have gotten the job done IMO.
Orioles are just going to find out what everyone else did about Gregg.. 3 run leads are easy saves to pad the stats, but those getting behind 2-1 and 3-1 on a continual basis will kill you in the end with regards to close games.
What was their record with Buck!
Streaky?
Aside from falling off a cliff at the end of each of his first three full seasons, Reynolds is actually more like a model of consistency:
Slugging % by month
April: .522
May: .521
June: .504
July: .496
August: .521
September: .342
Streaky?
Aside from falling off a cliff at the end of each of his first three full seasons, Reynolds is actually more like a model of consistency:
Slugging % by month
April: .522
May: .521
June: .504
July: .496
August: .521
September: .342
Yeah, because Vernon Wells and former utility man (and former Oriole) Jose Bautista are models of consistency. Because they both had a great 2010, they must be due for a horrible 2011, right? If those guys have a good season in 2011 I’ll tip my hat. But until then I’ll say the Jays got lucky on offense last year.
Yeah, because Vernon Wells and former utility man (and former Oriole) Jose Bautista are models of consistency. Because they both had a great 2010, they must be due for a horrible 2011, right? If those guys have a good season in 2011 I’ll tip my hat. But until then I’ll say the Jays got lucky on offense last year.
Look at the lines that Lee, Reynolds and Hardy are replacing, boss.
First: .226/.289/.336
Third: .260/.290/.378
Short: .236/.277/.272
Sure, Lee, Reynolds and Hardy probably won’t make up 19 games on their own, but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if those three made up for 15 more wins or so.
Also factor in the impact that Lee and Reynolds will make on the middle of the lineup. Nick Markakis will be better. Matt Wieters and Adam Jones will be better. The Orioles offense as a whole is much more well-rounded.
But, as usual, it all depends on pitching.
Not baseball, no. My opinion may come across as prejudice, but it’s still my opinion that baseball players are under mental strain their whole pro careers to make it to the MLB, so actually being there isn’t any different, maybe even a relief.
Not baseball, no. My opinion may come across as prejudice, but it’s still my opinion that baseball players are under mental strain their whole pro careers to make it to the MLB, so actually being there isn’t any different, maybe even a relief.
Most improved, not best.
Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford are essentially replacing Adrian Beltre and Victor Martinez.
Derrek Lee and Mark Reynolds are replacing a combined .240/.290/.350 line and 27 combined home runs from Orioles first and third basemen in 2010.
And J.J. Hardy is replacing a .549 OPS and one home run from O’s shortstops in 2010.
Sure, Lee, Reynolds and Hardy never topped any free agent or trade candidate list, but in terms of improvement, that’s damn good.
The Sox lost Beltre and Rimirez!
The Sox fans are overreacting to the signing of Gonzo and Crawford, watch out with the hype.
Have to laugh at this guy. Isn’t Travis Snider “lunchbox” in Toronto. The reason they call him ‘Lunchbox’ is that every time he steps into the box pitchers eat his lunch with major league fastball and breaking pitches. Talk about crap prospects. If Snider and Arencibia are Toronto’s future, it’s a dark as night future. Too bad they let Ricciardi go before he could have the club behind the Pirates.
The only reason they don’t have a “foundation for a competetive playoff team” is the division they play in. This is far and away the best division in baseball and they have to play a lions share of games against this division. In a weaker division this years Orioles team, imo, can win 85 games. They will win 75-80 this year and advance on both Toronto and Tampa.
The only reason they don’t have a “foundation for a competetive playoff team” is the division they play in. This is far and away the best division in baseball and they have to play a lions share of games against this division. In a weaker division this years Orioles team, imo, can win 85 games. They will win 75-80 this year and advance on both Toronto and Tampa.
even if you dont like snider and arencibia, which is odd to begin with, you can take your pick of drabek, stewart, lawrie, and d’arnaud for top tier prospects, and guys like hechavarria, gose, carlos perez, deck mcguire, aaron sanchez, moises sierra, jake marisnick and henderson alvarez just to name a few for really solid organizational depth.
the vast majority of teams, O’s included, cannot compare with that.
o, and i believe snider is called lunchbox in some circles because of his hard working style of play and how he hustles out every play. he was on the cusp of breaking out last year before getting hurt.
He’ll be a middle reliever/right handed set up man. Plus, with Koji Uehara and his injury history at closer, it’s probably a good idea to have someone else in your pen who has experience closing games.
Is the deal a bit much? Yes, but practically every above-average reliever this off-season is getting overpaid. You can thank the Tigers for starting that trend.
Why is it odd to not be impressed with Snider and Arencibia? Snider’s #1 age comp at b-ref is Ruppert Jones, a guy who was out of baseball at 32 and had a 106 OPS+. I think your ‘on the cusp’ breakout means a fantasy breakout that exists in your dreams. As for Arencibia, comparing him to Matt Wieters is a joke. Not in the same league at all. I have no idea what ‘Stewart’ you’re referring to a as a ‘top-tier’ prospect, but if you mean the 24 year old that was in AA ball last year, Zach Stewart, that’s a joke calling him ‘top-tier’. If you think ‘top-tier’ prospects include 24 year olds in AA, I can see why you think Travis Snider and Arencibia are also ‘top-tier’. You could put that steamy pile of poo (Snider/Arencibia/Stewart) in a ‘lunchbox’, and it wouldn’t be the ante in a trade discussion for Matt Wieters.
no one compared arencibia to wieters. wieters is a better prospect, but it doesnt make arencibia garbage.
obviously i cant convince you of snider until he breaks out, as with any other young player, so i’ll leave that to him. but since you brought wieters into the discussion, snider has more HR’s, doubles, and a higher OPS than wieters, even tho he has played less games in the bigs
and for stewart, would it have made you feel any better if stewart had played in AAA where he would have in any other minor league system?? the jays dont send their top pitching prospects to AAA Las Vegas because it is a terrible environment for developing pitching. that is the only reason. it is true that he is 24 years old and still in the minors but that is mainly due to lost development time as the reds were trying to make him a reliever before the jays acquired him. he pretty much matched drabek this year stats-wise and according to our GM has 98mph heat and a good slider.
long term the jays are in an infinitely better position than the O’s, and probably in the short term as well
Which goes to show you’re completely missing the point. The story of the 2010 Baltimore Orioles is their W-L record after the All Star Break (or to be more precise, after Showalter arrived). And the story of the 2011 Baltimore Orioles (so far anyway) is the changes they have made during the off season.
Which goes to show you’re completely missing the point. The story of the 2010 Baltimore Orioles is their W-L record after the All Star Break (or to be more precise, after Showalter arrived). And the story of the 2011 Baltimore Orioles (so far anyway) is the changes they have made during the off season.
You can’t be serious. Of course the Jays have more depth at the minor league level than the O’s, but that’s mainly because the O’s recently promoted so many players to the majors over the past couple of seasons. To say that the Jays are in an infinitely better position than the O’s is ridiculous. I.e., imagine how good the O’s rotation could be right now if Adam Loewen’s pitching career hadn’t ended. In two or three years the O’s could easily be in an “infinitely better position” than the Jays. This stuff changes so fast.