Quick Hits: Willingham, Rivera, Royals, Wilson

Links for Wednesday, as the Cardinals, Rays and Angels try to make improbable surges into the playoffs with some late-season magic…


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41 Comments on "Quick Hits: Willingham, Rivera, Royals, Wilson"


EdinsonPickle
3 years 11 months ago

Has Manny had the most unceremonious end to a baseball career or what?

Rabbitov
3 years 11 months ago

Bonds?

rainyperez
3 years 11 months ago

Unlike Bonds Manny got caught twice by MLB and retired in season to get away from any scrutiny. 

Rabbitov
3 years 11 months ago

Unlike Manny, Bonds wanted to play baseball still and no one wanted him back despite the fact he is the all time HR leader with gas in the tank. 

Apples and Oranges. 

Fifty_Five
3 years 11 months ago

Well obviously Manny still wants to play baseball if he’s trying to play in the Dominican. His situation is probably a little more embarassing because of everything else piled on top of the substance abuse forced retirement.

3 years 11 months ago

That and he obviously abused PED’s his entire time with the red sox which makes his career and the red sox two championships inauthentic.  I wonder when bud selig and his minions will put a asterisk next to those two championships.  Probably never but someday those teams will be exposed for being cheaters hopefully sooner than later.

Leonard Washington
3 years 11 months ago

yeah gotta strongly disagree there. Manny was never sited in the Mitchell report, nor did he get caught until he was way out of his prime. Which supports that he used them to give himself a boost post prime more than it supports his career was defined by them. Ortiz has never been proven without a doubt to have used and several people on that list tested positive for non steroid substances. So no completley wrong. Secondly championships are team efforts.

MB923
3 years 11 months ago

You’re seriously using The Mitchell Report to backup your claim? You mean the same thing A-Rod was not on either?

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

It’s only one aspect, though it would’ve made more sense for him to cite the fact that Manny never failed a test in the six years of testing prior to that first positive test, especially considering he was sloppy enough to get caught twice in two years. I have to imagine with that level of ineptitude in his approach, had he been juicing prior, he would’ve been caught much earlier.

MB923
3 years 11 months ago

And neither did A-Rod until he admitted it. The only players mentioned in the Mitchell Report were the ones that I think 2 or 3 trainers injected or supplied steroids or other drugs to players, as well as players who admitted guilt to taking them.

I’m sure you don’t need a trainer to do steroids. Any player could have used steroids at any time.

Who said he had to have been caught much earlier? Bonds never failed a drug test nor did McGwire. McGwire admitted guilt in court. Bonds only admitted guilt in 2003 by using a cream. Do correct me if I’m wrong on that.

I am not saying Manny did or didn’t use roids before then (well if I had to bet on it I’d say yes) but to say “He wasn’t on the Mitchell Report” is ridiculous.

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

” Bonds never failed a drug test nor did McGwire.”

Bad examples. Penalties for steroid testing weren’t introduced until 2006. McGwire retired in 2001, so he was never subject to the testing policy. Bonds, meanwhile, missed almost all of 2005, so we’ll scratch that. His SLG in his last full season before the steroid policy was .812, it dropped to .545 (His worst since 1991, mind you) in 2006, almost .300 points. I don’t think I have ever seen so drastic a falloff in power numbers. It’s a reasonable assumption that he simply stopped juicing once the MLB started banning people for it.

“I am not saying Manny did or didn’t use roids before then (well if I had to bet on it I’d say yes) but to say “He wasn’t on the Mitchell Report” is ridiculous. ”

Unfortunately, it’s our only tangible resource for who MAY have been on steroids. The only available evidence leads to the likelihood that Manny probably didn’t start until 2008 unless he was on steroids for his entire career (His stats have some ebb and flow, but nothing out of the ordinary).

I won’t deny that it’s very much possible he was on steroids for a long time. I’ve gotten to that point of cynicism where I’m just assuming every batter through that era might’ve been juicing, BUT there’s no real evidence indicating he was on steroids prior to 2010 and even best guess assumed from statistical anomalies, behavior and the like would point to 2008 as the starting point.

Leonard Washington
3 years 11 months ago

Yeah I seriously am. You cannot prove he was on it his whole career with your information and it seems right that as he faded THEN resurged that he would be caught for using. Making it more likely he used to get back to himself rather than its the basis for his talent.

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

Leonard covered the steroid part, but I’m going to play the Devil’s Advocate and go with the hypothetical of “okay, what if Manny WAS juicing through 2004 and 2007?”

Well, steroid testing was in place by the time the Sox won both of their championships last decade, so if the ever so brilliant and devious Manny Ramirez (This is sarcasm, for the uninitiated, Manny’s not considered the brightest bulb) was able to beat testing for six seasons (And then inexplicably seemed to have forgotten how he was doing it when he went to the Dodgers, maybe he left his kit in Boston), we have to assume other players with a higher aptitude (Pretty much 80% of the MLB) was juicing in that same timeframe.

So, sure, we’ll put an asterisk next to those two championships and, while we’re at it, let’s put an asterisk next to pretty much every single WS since the 1960’s.

johnsilver
3 years 11 months ago

Might have to make yourself a bit plainer here for the younger crowd..

Greenies, amphetamines.. Whatever you want to call them were, for whatever one wants to say, freely available and a major booster from the late 50’s on and used by every team and most players.

There was -0- penalty for using the things either. heck, even drug usage was just a “turn your head” and pretend like you did not see it.

This is for all you numb skulls who continue to come here, every single day and post that “this teams’s WS” and “THAT ONE” are not legit.

Answer? Either go out and learn something about the game itself, or take a stinking hike.. Troll somewhere else…

3 years 11 months ago

Ty Cobb could have ended his career in any way and it would have been reminder how unceremoniously great his career had been. All other controversies take a backseat.

MattCMoore
3 years 11 months ago

But his name is still on the wall in left center…

$3513744
3 years 11 months ago

It’s a toss-up.  Manny didn’t just stand in front of national television and congress viciously denying ever taking steroids…

3 years 11 months ago

Never had to he was protected by east coast bias and a racist government with an agenda to stick it to bonds.

$3513744
3 years 11 months ago

You’re right, it was because of racism.  It had nothing else to do with Bonds except race. Whatever the reason was, it was Palmeiro that stood in front of national tv and flat out lied, not Manny. As I said, it’s still a toss up because they both went out on a blaze of glory.

CAD_Monkey
3 years 11 months ago

It’s a shame that Womanny had to leave the game the way s/he did.

JacksTigers
3 years 11 months ago

I truley believe that CJ Wilson will be in KC next year. If the Royals are serious about getting another starter, and don’t want to part with anyone of note, he is the best guy. I think that they will throw a lot of money at him.

twenty1thirteen
3 years 11 months ago

I hope you’re right. Free agency isn’t quite GMDM’s strong point, and this would be nice to see.

3 years 11 months ago

As nice as that would be you have to remember that this is Kansas City.  Going out and signing a free agent ace like Wilson would raise their payroll over 35% with just one player.  Not only would they have to spend a lot of money, they would most likely have to overpay to get someone like him to come here. They will never do that

If they were smart they would trade from an area of significant depth, of which they have many, and acquire a cost controlled established ace type pitcher. 

If they are serious about the long term future of Melky with this team they should look at the market for Lorenzo Cain as he could fetch quite a pitcher in the hot stove market

MattCMoore
3 years 11 months ago

They should trade Moustakas. He will be a bust. Put it on record, I can feel it. Royals fans think that every minor league prospect they have will turn into a great major league player…

crashcameron
3 years 11 months ago

like Zach Greinke?!?

oz10
3 years 11 months ago

Yes, because his number one goal is to be with a winner. Not saying that KC won’t be great in a few years, but he has done the build up part with the Rangers and now he wants to win. He is a SoCal guy and has really made a place for himself in Dallas. I see it as the Angels or Rangers with the loyalty to the Rangers pulling through. 

3 years 11 months ago

One of the reasons the A’s couldn’t get free agents to sign was bob Geren.  Many players hated his guts and told other players about his terrible coaching ways.  Good to hear somebody wants to sign with Oakland that can actualy hit.

3 years 11 months ago

Except no one cares about the A’s and the coliseum is a dump. Not a single player in baseball wants to play in front of 500 fans every night in a place that smells like a sewer regardless what stiff is managing.

3 years 11 months ago

Good try but you failed just like your never to win again repeat team.  I guess that is the bitterness of knowing your team wasted $126 million on a cast off of the A’s.

tycobb
3 years 11 months ago

Mariano Rivera for David Wells I totally forgot about that. I remember reading it in Joe Torres book.

bayareabeast
3 years 11 months ago

thats a good sign for oakland that guys want to play for Melvin..gotta start somewhere, you really need to get out of oakland though.

Antonio Montana Hernandez
3 years 11 months ago

I’d say Raffy.

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

A little too Raffy.

Brv Rocks
3 years 11 months ago

The Braves and Royals should match up well for another trade.  The Braves have lots of pitchers of varying ages and abilities….and they desperately need position prospects.  Maybe Jurrjens for one or two positions prospects would be a decent trade for both teams.  Hanson is less expensive financially (and is signed longer)…but he would cost Moustakas at the very least. 

mcchampions
3 years 11 months ago

Any chance the Braves would deal Minor or Beachy? Id be pumped to get either of those guys, just curious what it would take on the Royals end.

3 years 11 months ago

Meh he’s 30 without a lot of bullets wasted. He threw out of the bullpen for a while, he’s a lefty, he’s had success in one of the toughest parks for a pitcher in the whole league, he’s done it twice (not just a fluke year) and he’s demonstrated a great work ethic. Frankly he’s going to get overpaid but he’s not that much of a risk.

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

You just basically described A.J. Burnett (Except he didn’t have a lot of bullets wasted because he never pitched consecutive 200 inning seasons) pre-2009.

And it’s quite often far too underestimated what kind of toll bullpen work can have on a guy’s arm. Generally it’s easier to go from starter to reliever later in your career than it is to get stretched out into a starter after a few years. The frequency of use and the “get up, get warmed, sit down you’re not needed tonight” nature of bullpen work can be very rough on a pitcher. Bullpen guys also tend to throw harder because they know they don’t have to keep it up for six or seven innings at a time, which causes even further wear on them.

3 years 11 months ago

I’ve been watching CJ since he first made it to the majors, and I can assure you that he is the exact opposite of AJ Burnett. 

oz10
3 years 11 months ago

Although if the Yankees or Red Sox sign him I hope he becomes the next AJ Burnett!!! (nothing personal CJ, you’re one of my favs)

Antonio Montana Hernandez
3 years 11 months ago

That kinda misses the main point that he was making…the second point is the most important part.

0bsessions
3 years 11 months ago

“he is the exact opposite of AJ Burnett. ”

Good call, I forgot Burnett was a righty.