Epstein ‘On Cusp’ Of Deal With Cubs

8:25pm: ESPN's Karl Ravech hears that the compensation would involve prospects and/or cash, but no MLB players. Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe hears that the Red Sox wouldn't saddle the Cubs with bad contracts in the proposed arrangement and notes that Epstein remains undecided about the possible change (Twitter links).

8:05pm: Epstein would need Boston's approval to bring employees with him to Chicago, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (on Twitter). Carrie Muskat of MLB.com hears that the Cubs made an offer and Epstein is now deciding whether to leave the Red Sox (Twitter link).

7:20pm: Epstein's nearing a deal with the Cubs, Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com confirms. The deal isn't done yet, as some issues other than compensation have to be resolved. Meanwhile, Yahoo's Tim Brown hears that Red Sox ownership is making a play to keep Epstein, but won't ask him to continue in a job he doesn't want (Twitter link).

5:44pm: Boston GM Theo Epstein is "on the cusp" of leaving the Red Sox for a job with the Cubs, according to Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald. Red Sox ownership still hopes to retain Epstein and if he is to leave, Boston will demand "something real" as compensation.

Epstein's proposed deal with the Cubs would include more power than he has in Boston, according to Buckley. The teams could make an announcement within a day or two and the situation will be "resolved very soon."

When Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts outlined his ideal GM candidate after firing Jim Hendry, he said he wanted someone with a commitment to player development and a strong analytical background who came from a background of success. Epstein, who became Boston's GM in 2002, certainly qualifies.

The Red Sox won two World Series titles under Epstein (2004, 2007) and have made six playoff appearances since 2003. They missed the postseason for the second consecutive year in 2011 after a September slide that cost manager Terry Francona his job. Our Transaction Tracker has every one of Epstein's moves as GM. Check out Tim Dierkes' look ahead to the Cubs' offseason for a preview of Epstein's first winter in the Windy City.


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397 Comments on "Epstein ‘On Cusp’ Of Deal With Cubs"


shysox
3 years 10 months ago

Now, get a new owner, manager, and pitching staff. 

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

New owner?

shysox
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t hate the Cubs but I don’t like Ricketts, I don’t remember why

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

Seems logical.

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

Seems logical.

3 years 10 months ago

Sounds like rational and reasonable dislike then.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

because he knows nothing about baseball and fires jim hendry who was a decent GM who had a bad year or two recently yet lets Crane Kenny keep his job…for now is that why?

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

1) Hendry was the GM for 9 years. The organization wasn’t progressing. I liked Jim Hendry, but it was time for a change. 2) I can’t believe I’m actually defending him, but Crane Kenney is a pretty important part of the Cubs business plans. As long as he isn’t involved with any on field personnell decisions, I could care less if he stays around.

Holidayjesus
3 years 10 months ago

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. 

3 years 10 months ago

You must be one of the fairweather fans that real fans hate.

Holidayjesus
3 years 10 months ago

yep, I’m not a real fan. You got me. I’m just a bandwagon fan who grew up in Massachusetts and moved to New York. What gave me away? /s

Fifty_Five
3 years 10 months ago

“Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. “

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

A+

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

It was likely the fact that you apparently don’t appreciate everything Theo has done for the Sox; I mean he is the best GM in the teams history and all…

Holidayjesus
3 years 10 months ago

I appreciated the things he has done but I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second. That’s awesome that he helped turned the organization around, but it is ridiculous that he didn’t take full responsibility in the end.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

that’s a really odd reason to want epstein gone. google “shortsighted”

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

that’s a really odd reason to want epstein gone. google “shortsighted”

3 years 10 months ago

So true.  Also, the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing.  I don’t know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they have it going on.  They can give up on free agent pitching in still have AAA depth to compete year after year.  Theo had zero AAA depth to give to Tito not to mention no corner outfielders.  Time for a change.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

“the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing.  I don’t
know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they
have it going on. ”

tampa got less production from homegrown talent than boston this year. corner outfielders is the one thing boston had in excess at AAA

step 1 – know things
step 2 – talk

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

“the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing.  I don’t
know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they
have it going on. ”

tampa got less production from homegrown talent than boston this year. corner outfielders is the one thing boston had in excess at AAA

step 1 – know things
step 2 – talk

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

All those top 5 picks and the whole “we can’t sign you so we’ll just trade you for prospects or collect compensation pick” plan certainly has something to do with the Rays success. Price was the #1 overall. They used Young (their #1) to trade for Garza who they then traded for more prospects. 

I hate the Sox but I’ll give whoever is responsible credit for making the most of what is usually a late 1st round selection.

WrigleyTerror37
3 years 10 months ago

hey hey john!

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 10 months ago

You mean the lack of player development that allowed them to trade for Adrian Gonzalez and Victor Martinez, among others?

The Red Sox have one of the best core group of home grown players in baseball.

3 years 10 months ago

So true.  Also, the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing.  I don’t know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they have it going on.  They can give up on free agent pitching in still have AAA depth to compete year after year.  Theo had zero AAA depth to give to Tito not to mention no corner outfielders.  Time for a change.

3 years 10 months ago

” I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second.”

How do you know? How do you know that Epstein’s relationship with Henry wasn’t soured because he did stand up for Francona? Not everything is made public.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

Don’t have the inside scoop but my guess is that since Theo looks to be headed out as well then maybe he didn’t have as much of the support as he would’ve liked or maybe not enough say so in the plight of Francona. If they were displeased with Francona then they probably were not completely interested in what Theo had to say about him. My guess is, while they wanted him back for 2012, he may have caught some heat for the collapse as well. In baseball, it’s the manager that goes first and if things don’t immediately get better the GM is usually next in line to go too.

vtadave
3 years 10 months ago

I’ll take a GM with two trophies.

Sincerely,

Dodger fan

Holidayjesus
3 years 10 months ago

I appreciated the things he has done but I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second. That’s awesome that he helped turned the organization around, but it is ridiculous that he didn’t take full responsibility in the end.

bleachercreature
3 years 10 months ago

Pink hats and such

3 years 10 months ago

I guess he should apologize for bringing you two world series championships, because you had so many over the previous 80 years.

3 years 10 months ago

I almost choked when I read this.  (Get it?)

Tanak
3 years 10 months ago

I laughed.

Eduardo Medina
3 years 10 months ago

Sorry, I don´t get it…

vtadave
3 years 10 months ago

That’s what she said.

Rabbitov
3 years 10 months ago

Hey this has nothing to do with anything.  I am only 2 “likes” away from 1,000. 

Who wants it?

3 years 10 months ago

heh the best part was the “(Get it?)” 

yankswin28
3 years 10 months ago

ahahahaha

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

As apposed to all those stupid make believe prospects the Cubs have been pushing on them.

3 years 10 months ago

…opposed? 

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Thanks, I’m sure no one knew what I was talking about until you pointed that out.

johnsilver
3 years 10 months ago

Here is something to me at least and the subject of compensation for one of the better GM’s.. Just what exactly top prospect wise would the Cub’s have Boston would could consider fair after they got robbed of the cream after Garza?

They cannot force them to give them a couple of #1’s like in the NFL or anything.. No problem if Epstein really wants to leave or anything, but they have nothing (IMO) enticing enough as fair compensation for a top 1-2 GM.

gunsnascar
3 years 10 months ago

I thought that you said theo wasnt comming to the cubs?
Remember our debate a few days ago?

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

No, actually, I’m pretty sure we were arguing about whether Boston would get compensation or not.

johnsilver
3 years 10 months ago

Here is some compensation: Even though it says no saddling the Cubs with bad contracts, have the Cubs swap Lackey and all the remaining cash owed for Matt Garza.. I would help pack Epstein’s bags even if they would make that swap. Cub fans (most it seems) seem to think garza is a bust, but just because they overpaid for him, would still like to have the “human spitting machine” as a outstanding #4 starter.

East Coast Bias
3 years 10 months ago

Also, Cubs should just wait it out because Boston will fire Theo soon… lol

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Seriously guy, you know they would!

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

 something real=Castro?!?!?!?!  :)

3 years 10 months ago

No.

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

something real=castro…. no one else on the cubs is “something real”

shysox
3 years 10 months ago

sean marshall and matt garza

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

I’m wiling to be something real is not going to = a high caliber prospect or mlb player. 

not_brooks
3 years 10 months ago

How about Randy Winn?

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

Castro is more than real, and is a thousand times more valuable than any GM.  Probably Marlon Byrd if it is a starter, or Welington Castillo if it is a prospect.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

Please explain to me how a gm/ president if baseball of operations who controls literally everything. Scouting, drafting, trading, international scouting. Domestic and international free agents is less valuable than a SS?

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

Because Castro is an All-Star player, and the Cubs can sign somebody else to GM and not have to give up anybody… this really isn’t hard to figure out, I can’t believe I bothered explaining this to you.

3 years 10 months ago

And the award for most unwarranted self-righteous attitude goes to…

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

pick me!

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

I agree with Jntg4. Since when have we ever seen a current all-star caliber player traded for a GM? Castro is worth far more than a GM. A GM can have 3 or 4 drafts and still not develop a player as good as Castro is currently.

3 years 10 months ago

Well, I mean, Theo did just that (i.e. draft 2 players better than Castro) in consecutive years. See: Pedroia, Dustin and Ellsbury, Jacoby. GMs have far more influence over the outcome of a team than any individual player; they control which players enter the organization, which players leave, and influence how much of the team’s payroll is absorbed by any individual player.

I’m not saying I would trade Castro for Theo as there is no precedent for that and all indications are that Theo can and will be had for cheaper. One should also note there are more capable GM candidates than starting shortstops.

However, saying Castro is “a thousand times more valuable than any GM” is just reckless and fallacious, especially considering Jntg4’s tone. Also, there is a reason there are guys like Ned Colletti, Brian Sabean (shut up 2010!), and Ed Wade with GM jobs and guys like Tony Reagins and Jim Hendry with recent firings: being a GM is NOT an easy job, and it is difficult to find someone, even an intelligent person with an “eye for talent” and solid analytical background, who can handle it and deal with sharks like Scott Boras and Andrew Friedman. After 9 years on the job, Theo is a pretty known commodity.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

finally someone else had the linebreak thing happen to them

welcome brother

3 years 10 months ago

Hahaha what the hell was that? Just had to go back and edit that fricking essay, obnoxious.

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

It does that to me every time I copy and paste

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

For the record, I’m not saying it’s easy and I don’t agree with 100% of what Jntg4 said but clearly I feel that Castro as compensation is way too much to pay.

xcal1br
3 years 10 months ago

The point is moot since Castro would NEVER be on the table from a Cubs’ perspective.  He is just too integral to the future of the franchise.  Non-issue, but fun debate.  😉

johnsilver
3 years 10 months ago

You know I would have the answer to that old friend and without the aid of googling…

Leave it to Charlie “O”.. He traded Chuck Tanner to Pittsburgh for manny Sanguillen and manny was a AS catcher many times over his career…

JacksTigers
3 years 10 months ago

“There are so many people I’d like to thank for helping me win this award. For starters, me. Actually that is all. I am perfect. You’re welcome for my time.”

-Jntg4’s award speech

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

I’d like to thank Ricky Bobby, and Adam Sandler, but most of all I’d like to thank my Lord, Jesus Christ, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

imachainsaw
3 years 10 months ago

finally, some sense. a new GM isn’t a guarantee that you’re ever gonna grow a top caliber player. why trade one for uncertainty?

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

castro…doesnt hit for power…and has a low OBP for a guy who does not hit for power. Yes this may change with time…he strikes out a lot and does not take a ton of walks, again something that might change with age. But his UZR and UZR/150 (after 2 years sample size is good enough here) is pretty bad…vs a GM who brought 2 world series titles to a team that had not won it in 90 years, drafted Els, lester, buck, and pedroia…was able to trade and extend gonzo, traded for salty(under rated trade) drafted bard, extended becket(loved by many at the time)got great value for trading manny away signed scuttero(ok at the time) and has turned the bosox into a power house year in and year out…yeah..Crawford didnt work out this year but who knows, Lackey had a ton of off the field issues(probably led to his horrible year) both should bounce back…And for all the JD hate his numbers and WAR have actually been pretty good for them

my biggest thing is by the time Theo’s moves with the cubs, assuming it happens, pay off castro, if he continues to hit this well, will command a huge payday and might not be on the cubs when they can possibly contend again…thats why its not the worst idea to have him be the player moved…maybe the cubs could get Iglasies back for castro..

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

Castro doesn’t hit for power?  How many 21 years olds hit for as much power in the majors as Castro, he had 10 this season, that’s pretty damn good for a 21 year old.

Might as well end this debate as it has been reported that NO MLB players are involved though.  Let’s not drag this on if at all possible.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

reported by karl ravich…anyone who works for ESPN with exception to kerjikan is horrible about their job…this is not to fight with you but lets not end any debate until its all said and done.

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

fair enough, I can guarantee you that Boston isn’t getting Castro though.  If you watched the Cubs day in and day out you’d think much higher of Castro, ESPN has led to his bad rep.

azdsnd
3 years 10 months ago

Because you’re dramatically over-estimating the effects that one guy has in the front office?  Look, Theo’s a phenomenal executive, but he’s one of far more than 25 guys in the front office.  Castro’s easily the most valuable of the Cubs’ 25 big-league players.  No reason the Cubbies should do this.  They might, but it would be kind of silly.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

if he is president of baseball operations He not only controlls the 25 man roster, but he controlls scouting, drafting, picks coaches(see ya quade). Signs all free agents, extends all players. Puts people in charge of player development, makes trades(one of his strengths)..where as castro is a very very good player and by no means great(sample size people) And i even stated in another post that he is good and has talent but might be lacking the stuff between the ears. As seen in his stupid fielding mistakes and his lazynes on the field. Yes he could very very well turn out be to an all-star year in and year out. Or he could bust out…remember he hasnt played long in the bigs and plenty of players have had good years for 2-3 years and done nothing…So one offensive SS who lacks defensively or a guy who literally runs the entire organization and has a very very very good track record. I take the exec who has turned a team around before every time.

bacboris
3 years 10 months ago

Well unless Theo has some skills with the bat, we might just need someone on this team who can hit with RISP. Trading the only real position player the cubs have developed in the past 20+ years may not be the best way to start off a tenure for the new GM.

P. Hertz
3 years 10 months ago

Theo can’t play baseball.

3 years 10 months ago

He plays guitar

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

castro cant play defence…and Short stops who cant field dont develop very well

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

Honestly, most of Castro’s errors are on balls most SS’s don’t even get too that go down for hits.  He also makes a lot of great plays.  Put any college Junior in at SS at the MLB level and they’ll screw up just as much, age is an important thing to remember here.

vtadave
3 years 10 months ago

Derek Jeter says hi.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

marshall? they have some nice prospects, but theo would probably prefer to keep those

not enjoying the idea of losing theo for a reliever

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

 when they say Something real, that doesn’t mean just some reliever, it means someone who is an extremely good player aka castro, the sox are not stupid and wont let him walk for a stick of gum

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

marshall is a very good reliever. and if the red sox are willing to let epstein go, they are in fact stupid

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

Theo is a top 5 GM, they would be getting more then that, and someone who is under contract for many years

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

it’d be nice if you were right but there’s no real reason to think so at this point

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

it’d be nice if you were right but there’s no real reason to think so at this point

WrigleyTerror37
3 years 10 months ago

Yea Castro is a top 5 short stop!!!

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

Theo is a top 5 GM, they would be getting more then that, and someone who is under contract for many years

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

marshall is a very good reliever. and if the red sox are willing to let epstein go, they are in fact stupid

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

facepalm

3 years 10 months ago

What did the White Sox get for Guillen?

BoSoXaddict
3 years 10 months ago

Two of the Marlins’ top 10 prospects..

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

before the 2011 season. then they both had bad-as-it-gets seasons

BoSoXaddict
3 years 10 months ago

I’m not saying they were any good. But I believe they were still ranked as top 10 prospects in the Marlins organization when the White Sox got them..

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

but it’s not like people were unaware their status had plummeted. all i’m saying is don’t hold your breath here. it’s probably not gonna turn out well

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

getting literally any player under 25(they both are) for ozzie is good for the sox…heck kenny would have probably been cool with a player to be named later. or cash…

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

not arguing the white sox lost the trade, arguing the red sox won’t win this one

azdsnd
3 years 10 months ago

They got a live arm who can throw in the 90’s but throws nothing else and a utility guy.  And that was an IMMENSE overpay by Florida for someone the White Sox wanted to get rid of.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

im pretty sure they were still top prospects when traded for…players stock in systems dont drop that much after one bad season, literally every player has had a bad year…at worst they moved from top 10 to top 15 which is still a good haul for a manager who simply didnt care anymore it seemed like

mmontice
3 years 10 months ago

Yes they can.  Awful years can sour opinions real fast.  Live for a few years as a Cubs fan, and you will see the musical chairs that is the Top 10 Prospect list.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 10 months ago

top 10 in a very week system.

imachainsaw
3 years 10 months ago

you’re naive if you think castro would be the cubs offer for a gm

JacksTigers
3 years 10 months ago

The Red Sox might not be stupid, but that’s not saying a whole lot for you.

3 years 10 months ago

Cubs management would be idiots if they traded Castro. He’s only 21, he still has a long time to develop. He is their future, and it would not be a smart thing to do.

azdsnd
3 years 10 months ago

No.  There are dozens of good executives the Cubs could hire.  They could take Cherington from under the Sox’s noses w/o having to give up squat.  There aren’t dozens of All-Star-caliber shortstops the Cubs could just pick up out of nowhere and control for years.

P. Hertz
3 years 10 months ago

Hah…how about “No”. Oh….never mind about Theo now…we want to talk to your assistant gm.  Oh, and your current GM is on a 1 year contract and he’s pissed.

jordan
3 years 10 months ago

something real=castro…. no one else on the cubs is “something real”

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Oh well. Congrats GM Cherrington.

3 years 10 months ago

As a Yankees fan, all I can say is YAYYYYY

shysox
3 years 10 months ago

Why? How hard can it be to manage a team with a 160 million dollar salary? Not only that but he’s made some terrible FA acquisitions. 

3 years 10 months ago

Any Yankee fan should be happy that a top-5 GM in baseball is leaving the division

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Sorry. I’m just amazed that a yankee fan admits Epstein is a top-5 GM.

ellisburks
3 years 10 months ago

To be fair the more knowledgeable Yankee fan realizes how good Theo has been. Just as we admire Cashman when the rest of the FO isn’t getting in his way.

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Maybe he’s just shocked at finding a knowledgeable Yankees fan (not that the same can’t be said about Boston fans…)

EDIT: Just read through the rest of this thread and you’ll see what I mean

3 years 10 months ago

haha well said…we aren’t all idiots though

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

He’s not a “top-5 GM” and don’t know where or why you would say that. 

3 years 10 months ago

I would be a complete homer if I didn’t admit that Theo, Friedman and AA were 3 of the top 5 GMs in the game. I dare you to name 2 others who are better

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

Daniels, Cashman, Melvin, Wren easily all better GM’s..

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Wren…that guy who got his team to the playoffs this year (psst that’s one of the biggest anti-Theo comments I’ve heard recently so why
isn’t it applicable to another GM under the same circumstances)? And he does have those 2 World Series wins… wait that was Theo.

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

Easily like no argument, or easily like you could easily name other GMs?

bacboris
3 years 10 months ago

Because… (the easily leads me to believe this is just another one of your comments meant to annoy people)

azdsnd
3 years 10 months ago

Easily? Yeah, that’s debatable. Daniels I’ll give you, and I wouldn’t put AA or Friedman in that tier (AA hasn’t won anything yet, Friedman relies on a lot of baseball guys around him), but Theo, Daniels, Cashman, and Wren are in a class of their own IMO.  Mozeliak is under-appreciated, too.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Ok. This kinda goes to my previous comment. 99% of the time you take the side of the argument that the Red Sox or one of their players is on the opposite side. It’s pretty much a knee jerk reaction. Odds are I could say the 2004 ALCS was a great example of a riveting playoffs series and my guess is you’d say something along the lines of “The bloody sock was a hoax.”

I do acknowledge there are a lot of yankee fans out there who are willing to rationally debate baseball. I’ve actually lived with several. However as I said, every time I see one of your comments in something about the Sox, one of their players, or management it’s always on the anti-Red Sox side so I have trouble taking you seriously in a debate.

3 years 10 months ago

I’m assuming that was directed at Century

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Bingo.

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

Yeah, considering not all my comments are anti Red Sox, but thanks for your point of view. I have the same opportunity to state my opinion on here and my opinion has never changed and that is I think Theo Epstein is way way overrated and there are many that agree with that. Not my opinion, the fact that Epstein sucks in general. 

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Not sure I said all your comments are anti-Red Sox. I am certain however I said given the choice in a debate where someone affiliated with the Red Sox comes in you’d take the opposite side.

As for your argument that people support your “Theo sucks” stance, so what? I’m still going with the 2 World Series wins, some drafted all stars, a handful of good rtrades and signings. Yeah, the guy must be awful.

3 years 10 months ago

He sucks at FA signings but is as good as it gets at making trades.

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

Such as? 

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

remember yester-friggen-day when you talked about how the padres got fleeced for adrian?

me too

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

For real? The Padres got fleeced because Theo and Hoyer we former bunny rabbit competitors. Seriously, you better than anyone, should have understood my point then and now. That wasn’t intended to compliment Epstein, it was meant to illustrate the weakness of a select few. 

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Still having issues taking you seriously.

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

..and I really don’t care to be honest. I’m making a point and you’re making one of your own. There is nothing wrong with that. But enough with the “you don’t know what you are talking about” crap. Despite your willingness to want to disagree with everything I say, you know and you don’t need to say it, that some of what I say is correct regarding Epstein. Other subjects; I’m generally the first to admit when I am wrong or step out of bounds making a comment. Always have, always will. 

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

Revelation! Theo isn’t perfect! Gee… never would have came to that conclusion on my own. You’re right, he sucks.

Fascinatingly, I still stand by what Theo has done for the organization and still believe it’s better than a solid majority of GMs out there.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

jason bay billy wagner victor martinez coco crisp jarrod saltalamacchia nomar trade curt schilling shut up shut up shut up

ellisburks
3 years 10 months ago

Bay for Manny.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

…See my comment above.

Just to add one to notsureifsrs’ argument, I’ll add the Nomar trade. See why a lot of us are having trouble taking you seriously in this debate?

Guest
3 years 10 months ago

Such as? 

NYPOTENCE
3 years 10 months ago

Like if Chicago Gm’s haven’t screwed franchises up.

shysox
3 years 10 months ago

There’s a reason Ozzie was dealt and not Kenny. 

NYPOTENCE
3 years 10 months ago

Like if Chicago Gm’s haven’t screwed franchises up.

gunsnascar
3 years 10 months ago

ya bitter and jealous much?

jeffdg
3 years 10 months ago

Woo Hoo! Jays fans are happy too.

Erocky
3 years 10 months ago

No effin way, will they ask way too much to nix the deal? Would that then force the Sox to finally extend him?

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

possibility, but i don’t think it would have gotten this far if that was epstein’s goal (as i hoped it was)

3 years 10 months ago

By “something real” do they mean he has to take Lackey, Dice-K, Bobby Jenks, and Carl Crawford with him?

monkeyspanked
3 years 10 months ago

Theo loves those old stadiums…

CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 10 months ago

Can he please come to the Dodgers soon then?

Tomahawk237
3 years 10 months ago

He said old, not ugly

CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 10 months ago

Ouch. It is the 3rd oldest stadium after Wrigley and Fenway, and besides its not ugly, its just boring.

3 years 10 months ago

THANKS FOR GONZALEZ! SEE YA!

JacksTigers
3 years 10 months ago

And the two World Series Championships. You are more un-greatful then a 15 year old rich kid.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

5 bucks says the sawx ask for starlin. And honestly if I’m the cubs I do it. A gm as good as Theo( this past year aside drafting and scouting he is one of the best) means so much more than a SS who has a ton of tallent yet might lack what’s between the ears. And besides by the time theo’s rebuild take control for the cubs to compete Castro will demand a huge payday. This is my deal Theo and lackey to the cubs for Castro soriano and big z. Z then goes to the marlins. Castro takes over at ss and soriano either plays left with cc moving to right or soriano dh’s. That’s a good deal for the sawx and the cubs yea take lackey but they save a ton of money by gettting rid of soriano and z. Plus soriano as a dead pull hitter would play very well in Fenway.

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

If I’m the Sox I ask for Castro, but that’s probably about as far as the conversation goes.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 10 months ago

If the Sox ask for Castro the implication is they want Epstein to stay.

The reality is we get a AAAA pitcher, max… so maybe the Cubs give us Zambrano and pay his salary.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

henry almost certainly wants epstein to stay. lucchino probably doesn’t, and if theo himself is fine with leaving then it’s all but done

this is not a ‘trade’ the red sox can win

Jntg4
3 years 10 months ago

Bingo

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t know, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox got a reasonable prospect or two.  I would think they should get something at least comparable to what the White Sox got for Guillen.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

white sox didn’t get much. it looks like a lot because guillen is a manager and a dumb one at that, but those prospects were not very good

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t know how good the Marlins prospects are overall, but the White Sox got two of their top ten.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

preseason top 10. not top 10 at time of trade. #cynicism

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Sure, I know they had bad seasons prior to being traded, but really, the same could have been said about Kelly before he was traded for Gonzalez. 

I know that no two situations are exactly the same (maybe they didn’t have the potential that Kelly did to begin with so having a bad year hurt their value more than it did his), but if the potential was there at the beginning of the year I don’t really see that one bad season should hurt their value all that much.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

kelly was a very different situation, don’t have to tell you why. unlike kelly, the marlins prospects failed when they were set up to succeed

– marlin system was bottom 5 in baseball preseason
– osvaldo was a low-ceiling prospect even before he failed in 2011
– jhan is a 22 y/o reliever who stalled in AA

they aren’t awful, but “top 10″ is super misleading

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Fair points.  See my comment directly below…

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

couple of chc writers framing this as hung up on theo’s decision. handsome salary and total control of baseball ops (he wanted nothing to do with business-side), but theo ‘deciding if he wants to leave’

best case: negotiating through the press to grab power in boston
worst case: lots and lots of larry lucchino

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

Yep, I was just reading the same thing.  At least it’s good to know that he has to decide if he wants to leave or not.  Hopefully he decides he doesn’t (or he get’s what he’s looking for from Boston, should that be the case).

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

he actually profiled as a solid second basemen and a solid #2 bat..lots o contact little power…at worst he profiled as a utility man…Jhan is a 22 year old in AA with a plus fastball..and profiles as a closer or set up type…

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

you are using ‘profile’ the way scouts used ‘ceiling’. not a coincidence that you’re a whitesox fan hoping for the best out of those guys

martinez can’t hit to save his life and probably can’t stick at short; he projects as a backup. martinez is a reliever with a live arm and only one impressive year (2010) which amounted to only 40 innings, most of them at single-A as a 21 y/o

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

I should also probably admit that I’ve been wrong before based on optimism so…

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

white sox didn’t get much. it looks like a lot because guillen is a manager and a dumb one at that, but those prospects were not very good

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t know, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox got a reasonable prospect or two.  I would think they should get something at least comparable to what the White Sox got for Guillen.

3 years 10 months ago

You lost me at “And honestly if I’m the cubs I do it.”

The rest is just as horrible as that notion, but did provide some entertainment value.

-C

shysox
3 years 10 months ago

Do you go out of your own way to add your signature “-C” at the end of your comment or is there a setting that you can add a signature? serious question

3 years 10 months ago

I wouldn’t say I go out of my way…it’s an ingrained habit at this point. I’ve been doing it anytime I’ve signed any sort of non-official document/comment for the past 25 years or so.

But, no, it’s not a signature.

-C

bleachercreature
3 years 10 months ago

absolutely not. Young talent with tons of potential over some executive that is, quite frankly, overrated. How many albatross contracts is Epstein going to engineer so he can bring more overhyped, overpaid crap to the Cubs? The Marlins traded actual living players for Ozzie Guillen and I find it highly unlikely that the presence of some loud mouth fool is going to magically make them contenders. Players make you contenders. Epstein could be great for them, but not at the cost of already developed talent.

bosoque
3 years 10 months ago

Why would the Cubs give up Castro? Theo is out of contract next year, so if the Sox want Castro then the Cubs would just wait to get Theo when his contract is up next year

0bsessions
3 years 10 months ago

This isn’t a player contract we’re talking about. If the Cubs get Epstein, they’re compensating the Sox for letting Epstein out of his contract, not for the rights to his contract. Any deal he has right now is nullified if he goes to Chicago.

bosoque
3 years 10 months ago

Right, and if the Sox won’t let Theo out of his current contract unless the Cubs give up Castro, then the Cubs will just wait to get Theo next year so they don’t have to give him up. Theo isn’t worth Castro.

0bsessions
3 years 10 months ago

Again, you’re acting like this is a player. I don’t think the Cubs are going to effectively operate without a real GM for a year to wait on Epstein.

bosoque
3 years 10 months ago

The Cubs have gone 100 years without a successful GM, what’s one more? You really think that 1 yr with an Assistant GM as acting GM would be so bad that it would warrant the Cubs getting rid of Castro, their best player? No way. If the Sox wont give up Theo for anything but Castro then it’s better for the Cubs to move on. (or just wait a year when they wont have to give up their best player) simple Economics 101.

0bsessions
3 years 10 months ago

I’m not saying it has to be Castro, but it can’t be organizational fodder like some are implying. There is absolutely no good reason for the Sox to let Epstein walk now without getting something of value in return. If he’s so important to the Cubs that they will put off the needs of their organization by a year to avoid giving up anything of value, then he’s probably a big deal to the Cubs.

For that matter, I can’t say that I, as a prospective employee, would feel comfortable going to a company that is willing to basically write off business operation for a full year because they absolutely cannot operate without me.

dc21892
3 years 10 months ago

Or Boston promotes Theo and gives him a nice fat contract so he doesn’t go anywhere. Then, Cherington gets promoted and Theo is still there to watch over him.

MaineSox
3 years 10 months ago

That’s honestly what I expected to come of this.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

if the bosox cant get at least jackson then i wouldnt be surprised to see that deal happen.

0bsessions
3 years 10 months ago

Drive Lucchino out, give Epstein his spot, make Cherrington GM and everyone anyone cares about is happy. The End.

Man, I wish.

jwsox
3 years 10 months ago

you do realize this whole deal is so that Theo will be let out of his contract, the one with one year left, from the bosox and sign a new deal wth the cubs…EXACTLY like ozzie did..he had one year left with the sox..the sox let him out of it, “traded” him to the marlins and signed a 4 year deal with the marlins…If this deal actually happens look for theo to sign something like a 4-6 year deal with the cubs. If he was literally just going to be a free agent at the end of 2012, the cubs would not have fired hendry and they would have just waited for Theo..

bosoque
3 years 10 months ago

umm..yeah. But you do realize that “agreeing to let someone out of a contract to go somewhere else” and “giving someone else the remainder of the contract” is basically the same thing, a trade.  In consideration of the Red Sox giving up Theo (releasing him from his current contract) the Cubs would give up something in return (you’re suggesting Castro.)  That’s just like a trade.  

But yeah, it would be dumb for the Cubs to fire their GM to waste a year on Theo, but if they would be willing to give up Castro for Theo (they won’t be) then they’d be idiots.  So honestly, if the Sox REALLY wouldn’t release Theo for anything less than Castro, then the Cubs would just forget about Theo, or try someone else out for a year then get Theo later if they really wanted him.  Ultimately, the Sox aren’t going to ask for Castro because that would never in a million years happen. 

5_tool_MiLB_fool
3 years 10 months ago

i guess that weirdo at starbucks wasn’t lying afterall

Fifty_Five
3 years 10 months ago

I’m 99.9% sure I stalked Kim Ng into a Dunkin Donuts in LA. Can I get my own post on MLBTR now?

jmcbosox
3 years 10 months ago

bye bye theo, bye bye lackey.  what?  a man can dream, cant he?

BlueCatuli
3 years 10 months ago

As a Cubs fan, I’d take Lackey. Is he really as bad as he was in Boston, or is it a Randy Johnson-esque deal? I think Lackey jut needs a change of scenery.

3 years 10 months ago

I love how the Sox cant win a championship for 86 years, Theo comes in and helps deliver TWO championships in 8 seasons and “Sox fans” cant wait to show him the door. Dumb.

greggpf
3 years 10 months ago

 He didn’t do it alone though.  He had an excellent support cast, many of whom have moved on to other teams and positions since.

jmcbosox
3 years 10 months ago

fact of the matter is that theo has been strong-arming the sox for years.  he has wasted 515MM dollars in poor free agent signings, and has taught ben cherrington everything there is to know.  he DID help to win 2 WS but hose were the days he was making intelligent acquisitions such as mueller and millar.  his GM philosophy has changed.

mmontice
3 years 10 months ago

Yep, Epstein was drunk with excess payroll to burn.  It makes for sloppy/lazy decisions and management.

This is exactly what happened to Hendry, and is what has me worried about Epstein in Chicago.

jmcbosox
3 years 10 months ago

fact of the matter is that theo has been strong-arming the sox for years.  he has wasted 515MM dollars in poor free agent signings, and has taught ben cherrington everything there is to know.  he DID help to win 2 WS but hose were the days he was making intelligent acquisitions such as mueller and millar.  his GM philosophy has changed.

bglaszcz
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t want Theo gone at all. I’d love for him to stay. In reality though, if he wants to go, and we can get some compensation in the process, then it’s alright if it happens. I’m not showing him the door, or praising getting rid of him. End of the day I think it’s smart to get something in return for him, and let Cherington have a shot at it.

bglaszcz
3 years 10 months ago

I don’t want Theo gone at all. I’d love for him to stay. In reality though, if he wants to go, and we can get some compensation in the process, then it’s alright if it happens. I’m not showing him the door, or praising getting rid of him. End of the day I think it’s smart to get something in return for him, and let Cherington have a shot at it.

notsureifsrs
3 years 10 months ago

this is gonna hurt

Ian_Smell
3 years 10 months ago

if it ever ends…

bomberj11
3 years 10 months ago

That’s what she…never mind.

3 years 10 months ago

The first step back to respectability is to hire a competent and proven GM, and Theo is just that. Good luck to the Cubs!

3 years 10 months ago

I propose that Epstein trade for Alfonso Soriano to the Red Sox and then leave and join the Cubs as the GM/President.

3 years 10 months ago

I propose that Epstein trade for Alfonso Soriano to the Red Sox and then leave and join the Cubs as the GM/President.