White Sox Have Big Demands For Danks, Floyd

The White Sox are asking for big returns for starters John Danks and Gavin Floyd, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post.  The Yankees like Danks, tweets SI's Jon Heyman, but they're unwilling to meet Chicago's request of top prospects Manny Banuelos and Jesus Montero.  In fact, Heyman says the Yankees wouldn't trade either for Danks.

Though Danks is generally regarded as a better pitcher than Floyd, it's possible Floyd has more trade value since he's potentially under club control for 2013.


119 Responses to White Sox Have Big Demands For Danks, Floyd Leave a Reply

  1. Triple Hawpes Brewed 4 years ago

    Fight! Fight! Fight!

  2. Danks for either of them is a joke.

  3. baseball52 4 years ago

    Kenny Williams must have run into those crack dealers on the way to US Cellular.

    • the_show 4 years ago

      It is just a negotiating tactic

      • baseball52 4 years ago

        Asking for two of BASEBALL’s top prospects for a 2/3 starter isn’t negotiating tactics, it’s insanity.

        • MB923 4 years ago

          Why capitalize baseball?

          • baseball52 4 years ago

            Emphasizing the big difference between a team’s top prospects and baseball’s top prospects.

    • KEK 4 years ago

      Never heard that one before…. did you know the crime rate is higher in Wrigley than it is in Bridgeport? Of course you don’t. Even with a new GM, Cubs fans still more interested in trying to insult the Sox. I guess you really do not have anything else to go on though, considering the Sox always outplay the Cubs and also have a WS in the last 100.

      • stewie75 4 years ago

        cubs fans hate white sox fans? i think we’d call it more indifference than hatred.

      • baseball52 4 years ago

        Someone has sour grapes.

    • agreed, Cashman would be crazy to do that deal. I’m glad he’s finally grown a pair and came out finally and said CJ Wilson wasn’t worth the money he’s asking for; he said what everyone was thinking, so if he were to make a trade like that for a guy who is less accomplished than Wilson it would make everyone question his judgement.

      • MikhelB 4 years ago

        Not only that, Ca$hman also said “It’s, ‘Hey, take my older, expensive, over-the-hill guy for your young, better-performing guy.’ I’m like, ‘Let me think about that and get back to you.’ ”

        LOL

  4. formerdraftpick 4 years ago

    The Yankees should just sign Maholm.  He would be a solid 4th or 5th starter for them.  

    • I don’t think he would last very long in the AL East.

      • wsox2624 4 years ago

         In 2010, Danks was 4-2 against the AL east with an era of 2.08 or below against every team in the east except for the yanks. This was over 65 Inn pitched. So if he is on the yanks, he will be able to hold his own as a number 2, 3 or 4 in the east. Peronally, I hope that they Sox can extend and keep him.

        • chris hines 4 years ago

          He was talking about Maholm… and he’s right.

        • MikhelB 4 years ago

          Too bad GM don’t make trades assessing only a player’s best season which happened to be two seasons ago, otherwise Danks would be a bargain, but if we take a peek at his career stats Vs the AL East minus the Yankees:13-14, 4.51 ERA, 22 HRs over 181 2/3 (which is good actually), and a 1.33 WHIP (again, also good), and a bit over 2 K’s per every walk (which is not good because that means he doesn’t strike out too many batters and relies heavily in balls put into play, kinda like Nova and Noesi, both of whom are with the Yankees).

          Adding the Yankees to his stats only makes matters worse because the NYY have basically ‘owned him’ all his career (7+ ERA).

          Plus there’s another bit of info that makes gives me “statistic shivers”, he is a perennial loser against teams with a winning percentage at the time he faced them.

      • wsox2624 4 years ago

         In 2010, Danks was 4-2 against the AL east with an era of 2.08 or below against every team in the east except for the yanks. This was over 65 Inn pitched. So if he is on the yanks, he will be able to hold his own as a number 2, 3 or 4 in the east. Peronally, I hope that they Sox can extend and keep him.

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      I highly doubt Maholm’s career 4.36 ERA, 4.12 FIP, 4.22 xFIP, 5.55 K/9, and 3.02 BB/9 play very well in the AL East.

      • formerdraftpick 4 years ago

        Maholm has consistently played on an awful team without any run support.  He can provide innings and the Yankees definitely pack the punch of run support.  If the Yankees can revive Garcia and Colin, I think they can do the same with Maholm.

        As for playing in the AL East, I don’t think he would be restricted to play only teams in the AL East.  I heard the Yankees also play teams in the Central and West as well as a little interleague play now and then. 😉 

        • chris hines 4 years ago

          I think adding a DH and taking away a pitcher every 9 times up will cause his numbers to go up no matter which teams he plays in the AL.

        • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

          Yankees aren’t interested in adding another 4 or 5 type pitcher. They need front of rotation help and Maholm isn’t that.

        • MikhelB 4 years ago

          Well, the Yankees play 19 times agains each team from the AL East, that means 76 games, or put in other words, almost half their season, and out of those 76, 19 are against a fairly bad team (Orioles).

          And it is not a matter of run support, AJ had run support and still… YIKES!

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      I highly doubt Maholm’s career 4.36 ERA, 4.12 FIP, 4.22 xFIP, 5.55 K/9, and 3.02 BB/9 play very well in the AL East.

  5. the_insomniac 4 years ago

    If this is the asking price I think we can assume we’ll see them both in White Sox uniforms next year

  6. notsureifsrs 4 years ago

    i understand the tactic, but that’s a laughable request

  7. $3513744 4 years ago

    No one has to trade anyone.  I like the tactics, but he’ll need to get real if he wants to make a deal.

    • ImDaBaron 4 years ago

      Kenny is just waiting for the best deal. But I believe if we trade 1 of them we keep the other. 

      • $3513744 4 years ago

        I don’t disagree to wait on the best deal, and I don’t disagree on asking that much as initial talks.  But no deal will happen if he keeps his asking price that high.  

        • Guest 4 years ago

          ..and while I would welcome Danks to the Yankees, Williams tactics illustrate a poor ability to trade within the market. He’s already shown that “trading” is not his strength. If I were a WSox fan, I’d be concerned about the ability of my GM right now.

          • sox2727 4 years ago

            what about those of us who have been concerned for the last 2 1/2 years?

          • Guest 4 years ago

            Right on. Its a shame, because Williams could move both Floyd and Danks and get a group of 4 or 5 very nice players in return. Maybe a Betances and Almonte from the Yanks. Maybe Romine and Warren and then for Floyd from another team, perhaps another 2-3 nice prospects. It’s a shame the guy is not thinking clearly because he could fill 4 or 5 spot for the 2013 season instead of having two arms that he likely will not want to pay up for when the time comes, especially considering the competition he’ll have in 2013 to resign those players. 

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            If I was him I wouldn’t take Romine and Phelps for Danks…

            That’s a catcher who is average at defense and will likely never be good with the stick, and a projected 5th starter.

          • Guest 4 years ago

            That’s exactly the trade proposal I suggested below. It would make a lot of sense for both teams and both teams get what they need, exactly. 

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            I would turn it down if I was the White Sox personally. I don’t like Romine’s upside enough for that.

          • Guest 4 years ago

            I’m actually pretty fond of Romine, especially for his catching ability, but with Martin, Cervelli and Montero in the fold, I’m content with that as Sanchez should be AAA by mid 2013 and hopefully we’ll see him in 2014. I’m just not sold on the 1 year contract thing with Danks and if I were GM, I’d be reluctant to give anything more than Romine and a B rated arm. 

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            Let’s drop to the bottom on this one… This is getting too small to read well.

          • $3513744 4 years ago

            Whatdoyoumean?Icanseejustfine.

          • MB923 4 years ago

            ME
            2

          • jwsox 4 years ago

            Thome, danks, Floyd, Quentin,Podsesnik, konerko, Garcia, and Thornton all might disagree with you on that

          • Bichonman53 4 years ago

            Many White Sox fans are concerned.

        • KEK 4 years ago

          Its a negotiating strategy, he is not going to trade Danks until people like Wilson sign new deals.

      • $3513744 4 years ago

        I don’t disagree to wait on the best deal, and I don’t disagree on asking that much as initial talks.  But no deal will happen if he keeps his asking price that high.  

    • ImDaBaron 4 years ago

      Kenny is just waiting for the best deal. But I believe if we trade 1 of them we keep the other. 

  8. n0s 4 years ago

    Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

    • wsox2624 4 years ago

      Business 101 is to get the highest retun for an assests/investment.  Again, if you are prepared to hold your chips for another year, why not ask for the moon?

      • MikhelB 4 years ago

        But you also should know to assess your trade chips and ask for a return with fair value, that is above what your chip is worth, BUT not as much as if it was the only chip available in the table.While setting the value too high its good when you have a player of exceptional qualities that can’t be replaced in the open market with somebody of equal value (a Canó or a Pujols its not something you see in every team), it is also bad when the player a GM sets a high price has had a history of performing badly against teams in the same division the inquiry came from.For example:
        Danks has a winning record and a fair ERA, FIP and xFIP against the NL, but in the AL he only has “good” numbers against three teams: KC, Oakland and Seattle, the rest of the AL pretty much owns him.That, my friend, is why some ‘businesses’ implode whithin a few years, they fail to realize their products actual value when compared with similar products, and unless they drop their initial asking price or add something as an incentive, their product won’t move.

    • Mikey Roederer 4 years ago

      While I agree the price is a little high, the odds that you get an ace or a .300 avg 30 HR guy let alone both out of those two is just as crazy…I understand building from within and valuing prospects, but the last few years it seems to have gotten ridiculous. Teams and Fans are letting the dreams get in the way of reality..In reality Danks is worth both of them now and for the next 2-3 years..

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        I was with you until you said Danks was worth both… He’s simply not worth that kind of package. You could land better than him by trading both in the same deal.

    • tsizzle 4 years ago

      The key word there being “potential”. Since when is potential more valuable than proven talent?

      So Danks is a #3 starter and that’s that, but a couple of prospects are being locked in to the Hall of Fame? Danks was pretty well regarded himself at one time, and is still only 26 years old.

      The Yankees can pay a price, or continue to piece together bad rotations that won’t cut it in October. Should they have to give up both? No, but I find it funny that people are saying they wouldn’t trade either straight up for Danks.

      And by the way, Montero strikes out quite a bit and while only 20 years old, Banuelos walks way too many for my liking. I would be careful with those projections.

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        Banuelos for Danks straight up is probably no-brainer, but I would be more hesitant with Montero for Danks straight up. Jesus strikesout too much and walks too little, but I don’t think Danks puts us over the top in terms of pitching.

        I want someone to go ahead of Nova in next years rotation, not behind.

        • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

          Danks WOULD and SHOULD go ahead of Nova if he were acquired. I like Nova but I don’t get why ppl are expecting him to be a #2 quality guy this quickly. Right now I’m comfortable calling him a solid #3/#4 guy and even that’s probably putting too much pressure on a 2nd year player.

          That being said, trading Montero or Banuelos for him seems a bit too much. Much more comfortable with something like.

          Noesi + Romine + David Adams + Almonte.

          As for Montero’s ko rate, I didn’t notice anything alarming. He was trying to hard during his callup and was diving over the plate for pitches. By the 4th game he was much more relaxed and didn’t press as much. In the minors his KO rate was 21% or below and that’s acceptable for a 21 year old power hitter @ AAA.

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            I don’t expect Nova to be a number 2 guy, in fact I never expect him to become that. I just don’t think considering the seasons each had that the Yankees would put Danks above him in the rotation.

            Plus Danks being a lefty they will probably want to break him and CC up with a righty.

            The problem isn’t necessarily his 21.2% K rate it’s his 7.8% BB rate to go with it. He isn’t patient at the plate, he never has been. He’s such a talented contact pitcher he doesn’t work counts, or draw walks enough. He’s kind of like Cano in that way, only he doesn’t make the same kind of contact Cano currently does, and he K’s more.

            Most big power hitting, higher K% guys also walk a lot. This isn’t the case with Montero.

          • MikhelB 4 years ago

            “Most big power hitting, higher K% guys also walk a lot. This isn’t the case with Montero.”I think you meant “some”, as not every power hitter with a high K percentage walks a lot. But also depends on how you define “a lot”.I’d say “a lot” would be 0.8 walks per every K, as that would give us players who hit for power, and gets on base via walks.I analyzed the best 30 hitters in terms of home runs, and out of those 30, their combined ratio of walks per every k was 0.596, that is, a bit over half a walk for every K.10 out of those 30 had 0.8 walks per very K (Ian Kinsler, Miguel Cabrera, José Bautista, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Lance Berkman, David Ortíz, Paul Konerko, Evan Longoria and Joey Votto).Besides Bautista and Longoria the rest struck out less than 21% of their at-bats so they don’t fit in the “power + high K%” argument.So, if we judge solely by power + high K% (let’s put a number and say more than the average K% of the best 30 power hitters in the MLB which is precisely about 21%):12 out of the 30 best power hitters have K% above the average (21%), and of them, just Napoli and Granderson have a walk/K ratio above 0.500 (that is a walk per every 2 K’s).Thus… i have a hard time believing the “High Power + High K% = High walk ratio (or “walks a lot” adjective)”.Montero as it stands right now, at AA or above, has had:20.67 K%, 0.454 walks per every K, and as we know, has above average power and it is a good contact hitter (i’d say in the mid 0.280’s to upper 0.290’s in batting average).

    • KEK 4 years ago

      Lol @ you implying that Danks is a # 3 starter. He has some of the best fielding independent numbers in the entire AL, is an established “ace” and also plays in one of the most hitting friendly parks. 

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        He’s no where near an established ace…

        3.77 ERA, 4.59 FIP, 4.38 xFIP
        3.72 ERA, 3.70 FIP, 3.99 xFIP
        4.33 ERA, 3.82 FIP, 3.79 xFIP

        He’s a 3.7-3.8 ERA type pitcher according to the metrics, he also doesn’t miss very many bats and walks 3 batters per 9 career.
        which makes either a good, not great number 2 or the best 3 in the AL, but not an ace.

      • $3513744 4 years ago

        Another example of loosely throwing the term ace around.  He’s good, but there’s only a handful of players considered aces in the league.  He hasn’t done anything to earn that just yet.

  9. n0s 4 years ago

    Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      Banuelos’ upside is really a lot closer to a number 2 starter than an ace and I doubt Montero ever comes close to a .400 OBP. He doesn’t have enough plate discipline for that in my eyes. He may hit .300, though I would look for him to be less than that for most of his career.

      I actually think the best comparison for Montero is Carlos Lee.

      • Guest 4 years ago

        You’re going to be pretty darn shocked by the numbers Montero will put up in the next few seasons. 

        • chris hines 4 years ago

          I love how people actually get mad at the Carlos Lee comparison and retort with things like Frank Thomas.

          I know you didn’t say Frank Thomas, just going off past conversations I’ve had about him.

        • jwsox 4 years ago

          To be honest you both stand the same chance of being right. Yea he has potential to be a beast but he has the same potential to be a nice hitter or just average or a complete bust it’s way to early to throw out numbers like a .300 avg. A .400 obp( seriously how many guys do that ?) and 30+ hrs year in and year out. Way to
          Early. Again could happen but just as easily could not happen.

  10. n0s 4 years ago

    Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

  11. He traded away Swisher for a .99 order of five Crispy Chicken Nuggets

    Of course Williams is going to be unreleastic here

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      I was coming to say something along the lines of this is just payback for Swisher.

      • Guest 4 years ago

        You can’t fix stupid and its not the Yankees job to offer that kind of help to the White Sox.

        • chris hines 4 years ago

          I’m a Yankee fan…

          • Guest 4 years ago

            Wasn’t saying you. Was insinuating the extremely poor selling low move on Swisher. 

          • tsizzle 4 years ago

            Ozzie and Swisher couldn’t get along. That’s why you got Swisher for a bucket of balls.

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            Ozzie tried to make him a leadoff man and embarrassed him publicly when he struggled doing something he had never done before.

            I wonder why they didn’t get along…

          • MikhelB 4 years ago

            Betemit has had success as a bench player since he was left go by the White Sox after they acquired him for Swisher.

            Betemit in 2010 + 2011: 0.290 AVG, 21 HR, 89 RBI, 42 doubles, in 181 games.

            I wouldn’t call that a bucket of balls… just a bad assessment of trading chips by the ChiSox GM (which is why he is trying to compensate by asking far too much for a pitcher who has had success just against three teams in the AL).

    • jwsox 4 years ago

      For the millionth time swisher was a 100% salary dump. The sox didn’t pick up any salary in the swisher deal thus meaning they get less in return interns of prospects.

    • KEK 4 years ago

      Swisher was hated in the clubhouse and whined when he was benched. That doesn’t fly on the South Side. Primadonna’s work in NY, not in Chicago. The Yankee’s knew that things were not working out with Swisher. Swisher is an average player and brought an average players haul. The entire team wanted Swisher gone.

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        He’s been above average with the Yankees.

      • Guest 4 years ago

        The method of your deductive reasoning has me speechless. 

      • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

        Wow…..Swisher is “an average player”? 

        A .854 OPS with 11 WAR, a .368 OBP and an avg of 27 hrs per season in the last 3 years is average? Who on the Sox have been better outside of Konerko since they traded away Swish?

      • MikhelB 4 years ago

        Betemit, part of the Swisher trade, since he left the ChiSox: 0.290 AVG, 21 HR, 42 doubles, 89 RBI in 181 games.

        PSRemember that it happened in a time when every player hated Ozzie but the GM was afraid of firing Ozzie because he was popular because of his antics and not because of his managerial “skills” (now he has the opportunity to win big time in the NL with a tremendous team, but it won’t win because of him but because of their combined talent… which is what happened in Chi-Town, once their talent couldn’t make up for their miscues they imploded dramatically).

    • MikhelB 4 years ago

      …bare in mind that he receiver Betemit and decided to grant him free agency, since then he’s been a 0.290 hitter with 21 homeruns in 181 games as a part time player in two seasons.

  12. He traded away Swisher for a .99 order of five Crispy Chicken Nuggets

    Of course Williams is going to be unreleastic here

  13. Jays Fan 4 years ago

    And took one of our two headaches, Alex Rios, off waivers for what… $100m?
    Kenny Williams isnt the smartest cookie.

    • KEK 4 years ago

      He might not be the smartest, but he put together a WS Championship team. Not saying he hasn’t made bad moves, but there are far far worse GMs than KW.

  14. BK 4 years ago

    Macier and Fabio Martinez for Danks?

  15. Guest 4 years ago

    One really has to wonder if Williams goal is to run the White Sox into the ground. 

  16. Guest 4 years ago

    edit

  17. Guest 4 years ago

    edit..stupid disqus

  18. Guest 4 years ago

    You’re going to be pretty darn shocked by the numbers Montero will put up in the next few seasons. 

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      You might be as well… depending on how HOF like you think he’s going to be.

      I like him, but the fact people get offended if you say he is comparable to Carlos Lee makes me laugh.

  19. chris hines 4 years ago

    Carlos Lee’s career years

    .305/.366/.525, .379 wOBA, 31 HRs
    .300/.355/.540, .379 wOBA, 37 HRs
    .303/.354/.528, .370 wOBA, 32 HRs
    .314/.368/.569, .396 wOBA, 28 HRs

    Not to mention he hit 30+ HRs in two other years of his career as well to make a total of 5 31-37 HR seasons.

    Montero and all Yankee fans would be blessed if Montero puts up 4 years like that in his career. The fact that people take that comparison as a slight shows how high the bar has been set, honestly it’s not fair to the kid.

    Also Carlos Lee was a catcher to start out and had to transition out of the position because he was too big to be good defensivley. Sound Familiar?

    • MikhelB 4 years ago

      Don’t forget that Carlos Lee, was not know for his power in the minor leagues but by above batting average and high amount of double plays, and developed onto a power hitter in the majors.

      Montero as it stands right now, has more homeruns and just 20 doubles less in 91 less games in the minors, a higher AVG, OBP, SLG and OPS, all while playing a much more demanding position.

      In that respect, Montero has a higher ceiling than what Carlos Lee had, and as such, he could very well put up better numbers than Lee.

      For that I see Montero’s potential more in the vein of Robison Canó, a player who was pretty good numbers to the opposite field (19.31% of his hits and 6.94% of his home runs are to the opposite side), instead of a dead pull hitter like Lee (14.09% of his hits and 3.7% of his home runs have been to the opposite field).

      PS
      Carlos “El Caballo” Lee has never played catcher.

  20. KEK 4 years ago

    Right. Danks is one of the best pitchers in the AL and because of this the Sox need to be compensated if they move him. I think if they do trade him, its going to be after Wilson and Buerhle are traded. That is when demand will be highest. I still hope the Sox lock him up. 

    • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

      “Danks is one of the best pitchers in the AL and because of this the Sox need to be compensated if they move him”.

      Danks is a good pitcher but to say he is one of the best is a stretch beyond stretches. Among all AL pitchers with at least 150 IP from 2010-2011 he ranked 24th overall. He’s a GOOD pitcher but he’s not one of the best and on most staffs he’s a poorman’s #2 and on a #3 on most good staffs.

      • shysox 4 years ago

        I agree that Danks is not one of the best pitchers in the AL. But after his 2008 season, there wasn’t a single Sox fan that didn’t think he would be one of the best pitchers come 2012. I think he was 22 years old in 2008.

        He was awful last year, though.But I’m not sure what stat he ranks 24th overall, though. I’m guessing it’s WAR or FIP.

        His FIP away from home was 3.35 in 2011.

        His FIP away from home was 3.65 in 2010.But of course, you play half your games at home.

        • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

          My bad . My thought was incomplete. From 2010-2011 among all AL pitchers with at least 150 IP he ranked 24th in WAR.

          I never said he was awful last year though. His ERA was a little high but both his FIP and xFIP are both below 3.90. He’ a GOOD pitcher but he’s not deserving of 2 top 50 prospects.

  21. Guest 4 years ago

    Let’s all please keep in mind that while win/loss means absolutely nothing, that Danks is only 2 games over .500 in his career with an ERA just above 4.00. He has great qualities for a mid rotation pitcher, but jesus people, get a grip with the trade proposals. Not to mention he only has one year on his contract. Danks current value is a B prospect to headline (Romine B+) and maybe 1 other arm from the depth chart. Phelps or Warren. That’s a good deal for both teams. Is Williams going to hand out a contract to Danks for 4 years and $48mm + next fall? Probably not, so…

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      I think you have to really like Romine’s upside to do that deal and I simply don’t. He’s an average defensive catcher, who can probably be a little better than average down the road. But who will always be bad with the bat, if not a liability. Warren projects as a 5th starter so he adds little extra to the trade.

      I think they can get more elsewhere.

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        This is in response to

        “I’m actually pretty fond of Romine, especially for his catching ability,
        but with Martin, Cervelli and Montero in the fold, I’m content with
        that as Sanchez should be AAA by mid 2013 and hopefully we’ll see him in
        2014. I’m just not sold on the 1 year contract thing with Danks and if I
        were GM, I’d be reluctant to give anything more than Romine and a B
        rated arm.”

        From above.

        He seems like a decent enough defensive catcher but he isn’t Jose Molina level good, and he likely settles in somewhere slightly above average. But his bat is pretty awful showing little power, low average skills, and low OBP skills. He’s your typical catch and throw catcher.

        I understand Danks only has one year left but I think he’s worth more than Romine and a nothing throw in like Warren, whose projected upside is no better than 4/5 with average stuff.

        I’d ask for Romine and Betances if I was Williams. At least then you get the upside of Betances, even though he will likely never live up to that.

        I just think he can get better than Romine and Phelps from somebody.

        • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

          I doubt Bets will be included in a deal for Danks. Ppl seem down on him for his walks but completely ignore the fact that he negates those walks with his KO’s and low H/9. At every level he’s been at, even the bad years, he’s always allowed fewer hits than IP and ko’d more than 1 per IP. “All”, and I say that somewhat sarcastically, he needs to do is learn better control and it’s often said that control is the last thing that a 6’8 learns. 

          His success is tied directly to his ability to gain better control of his pitches.I really look at him as a CC Sabathia type and I think if he can stay with the team he can learn from him and realize that potential. The only way I would want to see him gone is if some team DEMANDS Banuelos inclusion in a deal but can be convinced to take Bets and a lower prospect.

          CC had similar control issues in the minors as well. 

          • chris hines 4 years ago

            His control is bad because of his mechanics. He loses his mechanics badly from inning to inning and he has a hard time correcting it, which leads to extreme wildness.

            His fastball also isn’t as good as young CC’s was. When CC was in his early 20’s he was averaging 95 and 96 on his fastball, in fact he lead the major leagues in fastball velocity twice. Betances seems to average closer to 93-94 with his fastball.

            I don’t think he will be a starter, I never have. His future seems to lie in the pen. His fastball will play even livlier in the pen, his mechanics won’t be as big an issue, and he won’t have to learn a 3rd pitch.

            I understand most Yankee fans want to act like Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez, Williams, and the rest will all be perennial all-stars, but most prospects fail. The prospect hugging is getting a little old at this point.

          • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

            Sabathia didn’t average over 94 mph until 2005 which was his 5th season. It’s been said that Bets can sit around 94-98 on the regular.

            Bets already has 3 pitches. A FB, Curve and CH.

            “Brooklyn native Dellin Betances resembles Brackman in that he’s tall (6-foot-8), had his progress slowed by Tommy John surgery (performed in August 2009), and has a similar repertoir of a mid-90s fastball, plus curve, and changeup. Betances, however, is more than two year’s younger than Brackman, has a fuller build, and his stuff is actually better than Brackman’s. His heater hits 97 miles per hour with regularity and he uses it to blow hitters away up in the zone. His curveball has a wicked 12-to-6 drop, and his changeup is above average. More importantly, Betances has a confidence on the mound and a sense of how to set up a batter that Brackman has yet to develop. Betances, who was taken in the eighth round of the Yankees’ outstanding 2006 draft, has legitimate ace potential. The keys for him are keeping his mechanics sound and his arm healthy. He finished 2010 with just three starts at Double-A and should return to Trenton to star the year, but the combination of his ability and the Yankees’ rotation deficiencies could very well see him make his major league debut before the season is out”.

    • tsizzle 4 years ago

      How is that a good deal for the White Sox? Why trade a sure thing for a couple of huge question marks? You’re overvaluing your prospects here. They’re too much of a crap shoot, even high level prospects.

      At this point, Danks is more valuable than ANYONE you have in your farm system. Two years from now, that MIGHT be different, but as of right now you KNOW Danks is a quality big leaguer…you HOPE some of those guys on the farm become quality big leaguers. Stop acting like these guys are sure things, they most certainly are not, especially these lower end guys you’re trying to throw out there. You don’t have to look far for big-time Yankees prospects that didn’t live up to expectations.

      Again, the Yankees can pay the price (and IMO, not a very steep one given the nature of prospects), or continue assembling so-so rotations that can’t compete in the playoffs. That’s their choice.

      • chris hines 4 years ago

        I’d rather assemble a so-so rotation than pay Montero and Banuelos for 1 year of Danks.

        I agree Romine and Phelps is an underpay, but I don’t agree that Danks is worth more than all our prospects. That’s just not how the game works.

      • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

        “Two years from now, that MIGHT be different, but as of right now you KNOW Danks is a quality big leaguer”.

        Ummm..Danks is a free agent after 2012. The Yanks, or any team, are paying the Sox for 1 YEAR ONLY. That is what you have to understand and 2 or 3 years of Danks isn’t worth Bans and Montero so certainly, 1 year isn’t either.

        “You don’t have to look far for big-time Yankees prospects that didn’t live up to expectations”.

        I had to laugh when I read this. ALL TEAMS HAVE EVIDENCE OF PROSPECTS THAT ARE BUSTS. Of this list below, who other than Gio and Richard did anything? Notice how Richard was not a highly ranked prospect but has outperformed the 7 or 8 pitchers above him even though he was only a “C” prospect? How many of them off of this list even became bullpen arms or utility players? I’m not saying this to say Six prospects suck, just to show how prospect failures are far from a “Yankee thing”. In fact, of late the Yanks have produced a high amount of non-top 100 prospects holding down signifigant roles across baseball (see Gardner, Cano, Wang, D. RObertson, Melancon, Clippard, Karstens, Nova, etc).

        Gio Gonzalez, LHP, Grade B+ (ranks second on Oakland list)Fautino De Los Santos, RHP, Grade B+ (ranks third on Oakland list)Aaron Poreda, LHP, Grade B+Jack Egbert, RHP, Grade B-  (A major sleeper)Ryan Sweeney, OF, Grade C+ (I don’t think his power is going to develop. Ranks 12th on Oakland list)Lance Broadway, RHP, Grade C+Nevin Griffith, RHP, Grade C+ (great ceiling, needs polish)John Ely, RHP, Grade C+Kyle McCulloch, RHP, Grade C+Charlie Haeger, RHP, Grade C+John Shelby, 2B, Grade C+Jimmy Gallagher, OF, Grade C+Jose Martinez, OF, Grade C+Fernando Hernandez, RHP, Grade C+Oneli Perez, RHP, Grade C+Brian Omogrosso, RHP, Grade C+Ehren Wasserman, RHP, Grade C (solid role pitcher)Christian Marrero, 1B, Grade CClayton Richard, LHP, Grade CLeroy Hunt, RHP, Grade C

  22. Stephen Laphen 4 years ago

    You never know until you ask. As a Sox fan I would hate to see Danks go but he would be a nice left handed fit for the Yanks with CC.  Who knows what Banuelos and Montero can do in the bigs…so saying it’s insanity is pretty ridiculous, when were talking about a proven starting pitcher who can put up some decent numbers pitching at the hitter friendly Cell.

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      You have to go off of value and the value of the twp prospects together doesn’t match Danks. If you just use the logic of “prospects haven’t pitched in the ML so they can’t have proven anything” then no minor league players are worth major league players.

      Montero also has small major league time racked up, which increased his value to a small degree. Trading both for 1 year of Danks would be ridiculous.

      • YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

        So by your logic Danks for Harper and Rendon would be reasonable?

  23. stewie75 4 years ago

    “listen, uh, i know we’re not prob re-signing either of them, but we dooon’t have to trade them, so i think that calls for some of the best prospects in baseball for my #3 & 4 starters. yes yes, i know you’re worried about danks coming off the worst season of his career, but listen to this, HE’S LEFT HANDED, yup, true story. you’re worried that floyd is just an avg pitcher and makes $16.5 million dollars the next two years? well guess what, that just means you get TWO years of control, yup, you didn’t realize that did you?”

    • chris hines 4 years ago

      I’m not as big a Danks fan as many are, but the whole “worst year of his career” thing is a little overblown. He had the highest BABIP of his career and his FIP was 3.82, which is right in line with 3.77 and 3.72 ERA’s of the past two seasons.

  24. Who isnt a potential ace? Danks is 26 years old. That is insanely young for his amount of MLB experience. He pitched a shutout in game 163 in 2008. As a sox fan I would trust him in game 7 of the WS. He does need to limit his walks though.
    He wont bring back an enormous package because hes signed for only 1 more year. Also, he wont want to sign an extension based on his performance last year. Hes going to want to have a CJ Wilson type season and go the FA route.
     

  25. chris hines 4 years ago

    He certainly isn’t as likely to end up in the pen as say Betances, who I think will end up as a setup man/closer at the end of the day. Though I get what you mean.

    His control is what worries me as well, though I think he has a much more likely chance to be the next Gio Gonzalez than he does to end up in the pen. Though I wouldn’t rule it out if he suffers some injuries, or just proves incapable of getting the fastball over the plate.

    I think his fastball/change combo, and the fact that he gets ground balls eventually saves him from the pen though and he ends up a decent middle of the rotation arm. Though maybe one that battles control throughout his career.

  26. Guest 4 years ago

    Not really quibbling, just stating that Montero’s ceiling could be even greater than Lee offensively. 

  27. chris hines 4 years ago

    I see my mistake… There was another Carlos Lee in the White Sox organization who converted from catcher, never made it to the majors though. Always thought it was the same Lee.

  28. chris hines 4 years ago

    Could being the key word. He’s much more likely to be Lee than he is Manny Ramirez, Frank Thomas, or any of the other comparisons I’ve heard thrown out there.

  29. YanksFanSince78 4 years ago

    I agree that if Montero ended up being a “Carlos Lee” then we should still be happy BUT I think his ceiling is much higher than that. It’s all a matter of whether or not he will reach it. I feel that being mentored by other proffesional hitters will help him though.

  30. chris hines 4 years ago

    I don’t think it’s “much higher” than that. I agree his total ceiling is somewhat higher than that, but I don’t think it’s Frank Thomas level higher.

    You have to realize that Carlos Lee has 350 career HRs and a career triple slash line of .286/.339/.491. To say he’s MUCH higher than that is really lofty. You’re almost saying you expect him to be HOF or close to it level.

    He should always be a guy who K’s too much for the amount of BB’s he  has. It will depend on the amount of contact he makes as to what kind of professional he will ultimately be.

  31. MikhelB 4 years ago

    I don’t know why the obsession to compare him to Frank Thomas or Carlos Lee, I see Montero more as a Canó type of player than Thomas:

    About 2 K’s per every walk negotiated, with more power than Canó albeit a lower batting average but still a good contact hitter with enormous power to the opposite field.

  32. MikhelB 4 years ago

    I heard from pretty good sources that he’ll propose adding (or perfecting) one extra pitch to go with his fastball, change and curve (from what i heard, it seems that he’s proposed lowering the speed in his curve so as to create a bigger velocity gap relative to his fastball).

  33. MikhelB 4 years ago

    I heard from pretty good sources that he’ll propose adding (or perfecting) one extra pitch to go with his fastball, change and curve (from what i heard, it seems that he’s proposed lowering the speed in his curve so as to create a bigger velocity gap relative to his fastball).

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