White Sox Have Big Demands For Danks, Floyd

The White Sox are asking for big returns for starters John Danks and Gavin Floyd, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post.  The Yankees like Danks, tweets SI's Jon Heyman, but they're unwilling to meet Chicago's request of top prospects Manny Banuelos and Jesus Montero.  In fact, Heyman says the Yankees wouldn't trade either for Danks.

Though Danks is generally regarded as a better pitcher than Floyd, it's possible Floyd has more trade value since he's potentially under club control for 2013.


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119 Comments on "White Sox Have Big Demands For Danks, Floyd"


Triple Hawpes Brewed
3 years 7 months ago

Fight! Fight! Fight!

3 years 7 months ago

Danks for either of them is a joke.

baseball52
3 years 7 months ago

Kenny Williams must have run into those crack dealers on the way to US Cellular.

the_show
3 years 7 months ago

It is just a negotiating tactic

baseball52
3 years 7 months ago

Asking for two of BASEBALL’s top prospects for a 2/3 starter isn’t negotiating tactics, it’s insanity.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

Why capitalize baseball?

baseball52
3 years 7 months ago

Emphasizing the big difference between a team’s top prospects and baseball’s top prospects.

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

Never heard that one before…. did you know the crime rate is higher in Wrigley than it is in Bridgeport? Of course you don’t. Even with a new GM, Cubs fans still more interested in trying to insult the Sox. I guess you really do not have anything else to go on though, considering the Sox always outplay the Cubs and also have a WS in the last 100.

stewie75
3 years 7 months ago

cubs fans hate white sox fans? i think we’d call it more indifference than hatred.

baseball52
3 years 7 months ago

Someone has sour grapes.

3 years 7 months ago

agreed, Cashman would be crazy to do that deal. I’m glad he’s finally grown a pair and came out finally and said CJ Wilson wasn’t worth the money he’s asking for; he said what everyone was thinking, so if he were to make a trade like that for a guy who is less accomplished than Wilson it would make everyone question his judgement.

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Not only that, Ca$hman also said “It’s, ‘Hey, take my older, expensive, over-the-hill guy for your young, better-performing guy.’ I’m like, ‘Let me think about that and get back to you.’ ”

LOL

formerdraftpick
3 years 7 months ago

The Yankees should just sign Maholm.  He would be a solid 4th or 5th starter for them.  

3 years 7 months ago

I don’t think he would last very long in the AL East.

wsox2624
3 years 7 months ago

 In 2010, Danks was 4-2 against the AL east with an era of 2.08 or below against every team in the east except for the yanks. This was over 65 Inn pitched. So if he is on the yanks, he will be able to hold his own as a number 2, 3 or 4 in the east. Peronally, I hope that they Sox can extend and keep him.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

He was talking about Maholm… and he’s right.

wsox2624
3 years 7 months ago

I agree too and my bad.

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Too bad GM don’t make trades assessing only a player’s best season which happened to be two seasons ago, otherwise Danks would be a bargain, but if we take a peek at his career stats Vs the AL East minus the Yankees:13-14, 4.51 ERA, 22 HRs over 181 2/3 (which is good actually), and a 1.33 WHIP (again, also good), and a bit over 2 K’s per every walk (which is not good because that means he doesn’t strike out too many batters and relies heavily in balls put into play, kinda like Nova and Noesi, both of whom are with the Yankees).

Adding the Yankees to his stats only makes matters worse because the NYY have basically ‘owned him’ all his career (7+ ERA).

Plus there’s another bit of info that makes gives me “statistic shivers”, he is a perennial loser against teams with a winning percentage at the time he faced them.

wsox2624
3 years 7 months ago

 In 2010, Danks was 4-2 against the AL east with an era of 2.08 or below against every team in the east except for the yanks. This was over 65 Inn pitched. So if he is on the yanks, he will be able to hold his own as a number 2, 3 or 4 in the east. Peronally, I hope that they Sox can extend and keep him.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I highly doubt Maholm’s career 4.36 ERA, 4.12 FIP, 4.22 xFIP, 5.55 K/9, and 3.02 BB/9 play very well in the AL East.

formerdraftpick
3 years 7 months ago

Maholm has consistently played on an awful team without any run support.  He can provide innings and the Yankees definitely pack the punch of run support.  If the Yankees can revive Garcia and Colin, I think they can do the same with Maholm.

As for playing in the AL East, I don’t think he would be restricted to play only teams in the AL East.  I heard the Yankees also play teams in the Central and West as well as a little interleague play now and then. 😉 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I think adding a DH and taking away a pitcher every 9 times up will cause his numbers to go up no matter which teams he plays in the AL.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Yankees aren’t interested in adding another 4 or 5 type pitcher. They need front of rotation help and Maholm isn’t that.

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Well, the Yankees play 19 times agains each team from the AL East, that means 76 games, or put in other words, almost half their season, and out of those 76, 19 are against a fairly bad team (Orioles).

And it is not a matter of run support, AJ had run support and still… YIKES!

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I highly doubt Maholm’s career 4.36 ERA, 4.12 FIP, 4.22 xFIP, 5.55 K/9, and 3.02 BB/9 play very well in the AL East.

the_insomniac
3 years 7 months ago

If this is the asking price I think we can assume we’ll see them both in White Sox uniforms next year

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

i understand the tactic, but that’s a laughable request

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

No one has to trade anyone.  I like the tactics, but he’ll need to get real if he wants to make a deal.

ImDaBaron
ImDaBaron
3 years 7 months ago

Kenny is just waiting for the best deal. But I believe if we trade 1 of them we keep the other. 

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t disagree to wait on the best deal, and I don’t disagree on asking that much as initial talks.  But no deal will happen if he keeps his asking price that high.  

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

..and while I would welcome Danks to the Yankees, Williams tactics illustrate a poor ability to trade within the market. He’s already shown that “trading” is not his strength. If I were a WSox fan, I’d be concerned about the ability of my GM right now.

sox2727
3 years 7 months ago

what about those of us who have been concerned for the last 2 1/2 years?

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Right on. Its a shame, because Williams could move both Floyd and Danks and get a group of 4 or 5 very nice players in return. Maybe a Betances and Almonte from the Yanks. Maybe Romine and Warren and then for Floyd from another team, perhaps another 2-3 nice prospects. It’s a shame the guy is not thinking clearly because he could fill 4 or 5 spot for the 2013 season instead of having two arms that he likely will not want to pay up for when the time comes, especially considering the competition he’ll have in 2013 to resign those players. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

If I was him I wouldn’t take Romine and Phelps for Danks…

That’s a catcher who is average at defense and will likely never be good with the stick, and a projected 5th starter.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

That’s exactly the trade proposal I suggested below. It would make a lot of sense for both teams and both teams get what they need, exactly. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I would turn it down if I was the White Sox personally. I don’t like Romine’s upside enough for that.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

I’m actually pretty fond of Romine, especially for his catching ability, but with Martin, Cervelli and Montero in the fold, I’m content with that as Sanchez should be AAA by mid 2013 and hopefully we’ll see him in 2014. I’m just not sold on the 1 year contract thing with Danks and if I were GM, I’d be reluctant to give anything more than Romine and a B rated arm. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

Let’s drop to the bottom on this one… This is getting too small to read well.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Whatdoyoumean?Icanseejustfine.

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

ME
2

jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

Thome, danks, Floyd, Quentin,Podsesnik, konerko, Garcia, and Thornton all might disagree with you on that

Bichonman53
3 years 7 months ago

Many White Sox fans are concerned.

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

Its a negotiating strategy, he is not going to trade Danks until people like Wilson sign new deals.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t disagree to wait on the best deal, and I don’t disagree on asking that much as initial talks.  But no deal will happen if he keeps his asking price that high.  

ImDaBaron
ImDaBaron
3 years 7 months ago

Kenny is just waiting for the best deal. But I believe if we trade 1 of them we keep the other. 

n0s
3 years 7 months ago

Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

wsox2624
3 years 7 months ago

Business 101 is to get the highest retun for an assests/investment.  Again, if you are prepared to hold your chips for another year, why not ask for the moon?

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

But you also should know to assess your trade chips and ask for a return with fair value, that is above what your chip is worth, BUT not as much as if it was the only chip available in the table.While setting the value too high its good when you have a player of exceptional qualities that can’t be replaced in the open market with somebody of equal value (a Canó or a Pujols its not something you see in every team), it is also bad when the player a GM sets a high price has had a history of performing badly against teams in the same division the inquiry came from.For example:
Danks has a winning record and a fair ERA, FIP and xFIP against the NL, but in the AL he only has “good” numbers against three teams: KC, Oakland and Seattle, the rest of the AL pretty much owns him.That, my friend, is why some ‘businesses’ implode whithin a few years, they fail to realize their products actual value when compared with similar products, and unless they drop their initial asking price or add something as an incentive, their product won’t move.

Mikey Roederer
3 years 7 months ago

While I agree the price is a little high, the odds that you get an ace or a .300 avg 30 HR guy let alone both out of those two is just as crazy…I understand building from within and valuing prospects, but the last few years it seems to have gotten ridiculous. Teams and Fans are letting the dreams get in the way of reality..In reality Danks is worth both of them now and for the next 2-3 years..

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I was with you until you said Danks was worth both… He’s simply not worth that kind of package. You could land better than him by trading both in the same deal.

tsizzle
3 years 7 months ago

The key word there being “potential”. Since when is potential more valuable than proven talent?

So Danks is a #3 starter and that’s that, but a couple of prospects are being locked in to the Hall of Fame? Danks was pretty well regarded himself at one time, and is still only 26 years old.

The Yankees can pay a price, or continue to piece together bad rotations that won’t cut it in October. Should they have to give up both? No, but I find it funny that people are saying they wouldn’t trade either straight up for Danks.

And by the way, Montero strikes out quite a bit and while only 20 years old, Banuelos walks way too many for my liking. I would be careful with those projections.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

Banuelos for Danks straight up is probably no-brainer, but I would be more hesitant with Montero for Danks straight up. Jesus strikesout too much and walks too little, but I don’t think Danks puts us over the top in terms of pitching.

I want someone to go ahead of Nova in next years rotation, not behind.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Danks WOULD and SHOULD go ahead of Nova if he were acquired. I like Nova but I don’t get why ppl are expecting him to be a #2 quality guy this quickly. Right now I’m comfortable calling him a solid #3/#4 guy and even that’s probably putting too much pressure on a 2nd year player.

That being said, trading Montero or Banuelos for him seems a bit too much. Much more comfortable with something like.

Noesi + Romine + David Adams + Almonte.

As for Montero’s ko rate, I didn’t notice anything alarming. He was trying to hard during his callup and was diving over the plate for pitches. By the 4th game he was much more relaxed and didn’t press as much. In the minors his KO rate was 21% or below and that’s acceptable for a 21 year old power hitter @ AAA.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t expect Nova to be a number 2 guy, in fact I never expect him to become that. I just don’t think considering the seasons each had that the Yankees would put Danks above him in the rotation.

Plus Danks being a lefty they will probably want to break him and CC up with a righty.

The problem isn’t necessarily his 21.2% K rate it’s his 7.8% BB rate to go with it. He isn’t patient at the plate, he never has been. He’s such a talented contact pitcher he doesn’t work counts, or draw walks enough. He’s kind of like Cano in that way, only he doesn’t make the same kind of contact Cano currently does, and he K’s more.

Most big power hitting, higher K% guys also walk a lot. This isn’t the case with Montero.

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

“Most big power hitting, higher K% guys also walk a lot. This isn’t the case with Montero.”I think you meant “some”, as not every power hitter with a high K percentage walks a lot. But also depends on how you define “a lot”.I’d say “a lot” would be 0.8 walks per every K, as that would give us players who hit for power, and gets on base via walks.I analyzed the best 30 hitters in terms of home runs, and out of those 30, their combined ratio of walks per every k was 0.596, that is, a bit over half a walk for every K.10 out of those 30 had 0.8 walks per very K (Ian Kinsler, Miguel Cabrera, José Bautista, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Lance Berkman, David Ortíz, Paul Konerko, Evan Longoria and Joey Votto).Besides Bautista and Longoria the rest struck out less than 21% of their at-bats so they don’t fit in the “power + high K%” argument.So, if we judge solely by power + high K% (let’s put a number and say more than the average K% of the best 30 power hitters in the MLB which is precisely about 21%):12 out of the 30 best power hitters have K% above the average (21%), and of them, just Napoli and Granderson have a walk/K ratio above 0.500 (that is a walk per every 2 K’s).Thus… i have a hard time believing the “High Power + High K% = High walk ratio (or “walks a lot” adjective)”.Montero as it stands right now, at AA or above, has had:20.67 K%, 0.454 walks per every K, and as we know, has above average power and it is a good contact hitter (i’d say in the mid 0.280’s to upper 0.290’s in batting average).

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

Lol @ you implying that Danks is a # 3 starter. He has some of the best fielding independent numbers in the entire AL, is an established “ace” and also plays in one of the most hitting friendly parks. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

He’s no where near an established ace…

3.77 ERA, 4.59 FIP, 4.38 xFIP
3.72 ERA, 3.70 FIP, 3.99 xFIP
4.33 ERA, 3.82 FIP, 3.79 xFIP

He’s a 3.7-3.8 ERA type pitcher according to the metrics, he also doesn’t miss very many bats and walks 3 batters per 9 career.
which makes either a good, not great number 2 or the best 3 in the AL, but not an ace.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Another example of loosely throwing the term ace around.  He’s good, but there’s only a handful of players considered aces in the league.  He hasn’t done anything to earn that just yet.

n0s
3 years 7 months ago

Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

Banuelos’ upside is really a lot closer to a number 2 starter than an ace and I doubt Montero ever comes close to a .400 OBP. He doesn’t have enough plate discipline for that in my eyes. He may hit .300, though I would look for him to be less than that for most of his career.

I actually think the best comparison for Montero is Carlos Lee.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

You’re going to be pretty darn shocked by the numbers Montero will put up in the next few seasons. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I love how people actually get mad at the Carlos Lee comparison and retort with things like Frank Thomas.

I know you didn’t say Frank Thomas, just going off past conversations I’ve had about him.

jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

To be honest you both stand the same chance of being right. Yea he has potential to be a beast but he has the same potential to be a nice hitter or just average or a complete bust it’s way to early to throw out numbers like a .300 avg. A .400 obp( seriously how many guys do that ?) and 30+ hrs year in and year out. Way to
Early. Again could happen but just as easily could not happen.

n0s
3 years 7 months ago

Lol @ the white sox demands here. Asking for a potential ace and a potential .300 avg .400 obp with 30 homer guy for a #3 starter

3 years 7 months ago

He traded away Swisher for a .99 order of five Crispy Chicken Nuggets

Of course Williams is going to be unreleastic here

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I was coming to say something along the lines of this is just payback for Swisher.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

You can’t fix stupid and its not the Yankees job to offer that kind of help to the White Sox.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

I’m a Yankee fan…

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Wasn’t saying you. Was insinuating the extremely poor selling low move on Swisher. 

tsizzle
3 years 7 months ago

Ozzie and Swisher couldn’t get along. That’s why you got Swisher for a bucket of balls.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

Ozzie tried to make him a leadoff man and embarrassed him publicly when he struggled doing something he had never done before.

I wonder why they didn’t get along…

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Betemit has had success as a bench player since he was left go by the White Sox after they acquired him for Swisher.

Betemit in 2010 + 2011: 0.290 AVG, 21 HR, 89 RBI, 42 doubles, in 181 games.

I wouldn’t call that a bucket of balls… just a bad assessment of trading chips by the ChiSox GM (which is why he is trying to compensate by asking far too much for a pitcher who has had success just against three teams in the AL).

jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

For the millionth time swisher was a 100% salary dump. The sox didn’t pick up any salary in the swisher deal thus meaning they get less in return interns of prospects.

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

Swisher was hated in the clubhouse and whined when he was benched. That doesn’t fly on the South Side. Primadonna’s work in NY, not in Chicago. The Yankee’s knew that things were not working out with Swisher. Swisher is an average player and brought an average players haul. The entire team wanted Swisher gone.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

He’s been above average with the Yankees.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

The method of your deductive reasoning has me speechless. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Wow…..Swisher is “an average player”? 

A .854 OPS with 11 WAR, a .368 OBP and an avg of 27 hrs per season in the last 3 years is average? Who on the Sox have been better outside of Konerko since they traded away Swish?

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Betemit, part of the Swisher trade, since he left the ChiSox: 0.290 AVG, 21 HR, 42 doubles, 89 RBI in 181 games.

PSRemember that it happened in a time when every player hated Ozzie but the GM was afraid of firing Ozzie because he was popular because of his antics and not because of his managerial “skills” (now he has the opportunity to win big time in the NL with a tremendous team, but it won’t win because of him but because of their combined talent… which is what happened in Chi-Town, once their talent couldn’t make up for their miscues they imploded dramatically).

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

…bare in mind that he receiver Betemit and decided to grant him free agency, since then he’s been a 0.290 hitter with 21 homeruns in 181 games as a part time player in two seasons.

3 years 7 months ago

He traded away Swisher for a .99 order of five Crispy Chicken Nuggets

Of course Williams is going to be unreleastic here

Jays Fan
3 years 7 months ago

And took one of our two headaches, Alex Rios, off waivers for what… $100m?
Kenny Williams isnt the smartest cookie.

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

He might not be the smartest, but he put together a WS Championship team. Not saying he hasn’t made bad moves, but there are far far worse GMs than KW.

3 years 7 months ago

Bob Brenly won the World Series.

Sometimes lightning does strike

BK
3 years 7 months ago

Macier and Fabio Martinez for Danks?

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

One really has to wonder if Williams goal is to run the White Sox into the ground. 

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

edit

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

edit..stupid disqus

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

You’re going to be pretty darn shocked by the numbers Montero will put up in the next few seasons. 

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

You might be as well… depending on how HOF like you think he’s going to be.

I like him, but the fact people get offended if you say he is comparable to Carlos Lee makes me laugh.

chris hines
3 years 7 months ago

Carlos Lee’s career years

.305/.366/.525, .379 wOBA, 31 HRs
.300/.355/.540, .379 wOBA, 37 HRs
.303/.354/.528, .370 wOBA, 32 HRs
.314/.368/.569, .396 wOBA, 28 HRs

Not to mention he hit 30+ HRs in two other years of his career as well to make a total of 5 31-37 HR seasons.

Montero and all Yankee fans would be blessed if Montero puts up 4 years like that in his career. The fact that people take that comparison as a slight shows how high the bar has been set, honestly it’s not fair to the kid.

Also Carlos Lee was a catcher to start out and had to transition out of the position because he was too big to be good defensivley. Sound Familiar?

MikhelB
3 years 7 months ago

Don’t forget that Carlos Lee, was not know for his power in the minor leagues but by above batting average and high amount of double plays, and developed onto a power hitter in the majors.

Montero as it stands right now, has more homeruns and just 20 doubles less in 91 less games in the minors, a higher AVG, OBP, SLG and OPS, all while playing a much more demanding position.

In that respect, Montero has a higher ceiling than what Carlos Lee had, and as such, he could very well put up better numbers than Lee.

For that I see Montero’s potential more in the vein of Robison Canó, a player who was pretty good numbers to the opposite field (19.31% of his hits and 6.94% of his home runs are to the opposite side), instead of a dead pull hitter like Lee (14.09% of his hits and 3.7% of his home runs have been to the opposite field).

PS
Carlos “El Caballo” Lee has never played catcher.

KEK
3 years 7 months ago

Right. Danks is one of the best pitchers in the AL and because of this the Sox need to be compensated if they move him. I think if they do trade him, its going to be after Wilson and Buerhle are traded. That is when demand will be highest. I still hope the Sox lock him up. 

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

“Danks is one of the best pitchers in the AL and because of this the Sox need to be compensated if they move him”.

Danks is a good pitcher but to say he is one of the best is a stretch beyond stretches. Among all AL pitchers with at least 150 IP from 2010-2011 he ranked 24th overall. He’s a GOOD pitcher but he’s not one of the best and on most staffs he’s a poorman’s #2 and on a #3 on most good staffs.

shysox
3 years 7 months ago

I agree that Danks is not one of the best pitchers in the AL. But after his 2008 season, there wasn’t a single Sox fan that didn’t think he would be one of the best pitchers come 2012. I think he was 22 years old in 2008.

He was awful last year, though.But I’m not sure what stat he ranks 24th overall, though. I’m guessing it’s WAR or FIP.

His FIP away from home was 3.35 in 2011.

His FIP away from home was 3.65 in 2010.But of course, you play half your games at home.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

My bad . My thought was incomplete. From 2010-2011 among all AL pitchers with at least 150 IP he ranked 24th in WAR.

I never said he was awful last year though. His ERA was a little high but both his FIP and xFIP are both below 3.90. He’ a GOOD pitcher but he’s not deserving of 2 top 50 prospects.