Quick Hits: Lincecum, Red Sox, Gordon, Francis

Friday night links..

  • The Giants and the agent for Tim Lincecum have made significant progress since exchanging arbitration figures and both sides are confident that a resolution can be reached before a hearing would be scheduled, writes Andrew Baggarly of the Mercury News.
  • The Reds could look to land an infielder via trade, writes MLB.com's Mark Sheldon.
  • It appears that talks between the Rockies and Red Sox regarding Marco Scutaro are dormant, but Rob Bradford of WEEI.com writes that Boston's possible motivation for a move involving Scutaro would be to free up payroll.  The club has reportedly expressed interest in White Sox starter Gavin Floyd and free agent outfielder Cody Ross, but neither move could be made unless a trade was made to offer budgetary relief according to a source.
  • The Royals and Alex Gordon aren't particularly close on a deal but talks remain cordial and both sides want to get something done, tweets Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star.
  • Left-hander Jeff Francis is starting to attract more interest from teams in the market for a starting pitcher including the Mariners, Reds, Blue Jays, and Mets, according to Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com (Twitter links)
  • Jesus Montero has dealt with his visa issue and is scheduled to travel from Florida to Seattle today for his Mariners physical, tweets Ken Davidoff of Newsday.
  • Braves GM Frank Wren doesn't believe that his club has a major personnel need, writes Mark Bradley of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.  Wren also believes that this year's bullpen figures to be even deeper that last year's.
  • Joe Capozzi of The Palm Beach Post (via Twitter) is told that the Marlins have no interest in bringing Ivan Rodriguez back.


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77 Comments on "Quick Hits: Lincecum, Red Sox, Gordon, Francis"


Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

I rather keep Scutaro than have Gavin Floyd. They need to free up money for Cody Ross? Really? 

Took me a few years but comment #1000!

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
3 years 6 months ago

I agree. Floyd has just never reached that potential everyone has expected out of him. While he’d be a good back end starter for the Red Sox my bet is Williams would demand top line talent for him and for the Red Sox that means losing the best trade chips on the farm. O doubt he’d be worth the price.

I know the rotation is still shaky but I’m fine with the approach Cherington is taking to the offseason. He hasn’t made a knee jerk reaction that I was worried the Sox would make… like signing Edwin Jackson.

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Yea and Floyd is 29 I believe. I would rather Cherington trade for Garza. I doubt there would be a huge difference between what Epstein and Williams would demand. Although Im not sure if the Sox want to deal with Epstein since hes been in Boston for a few years. Or they can just sign Oswalt. 

johnsilver
3 years 6 months ago

I agree with freeing up anything for Floyd, much less giving up any prospects for him.

I must admit have always liked Cody Ross from his days as a marlin, just like SFG fans learned to like him and Sox fans would also once you had him on “your” team..

He is just one of those guys who gives 100% each and every time, does the little things right and will do anything to beat you.. On top of a tremendous clubhouse presence.

Is he worth 7-8m? No, but 4-5m? Anyday and a far sight better than what they have on the roster right now as a 4th OF/RF, plus a guy who can play every OF position and play them well.

His stroke would play well at Fenway also.. e has been at awful offensive stadiums throughout his career and does actually have good power to all fields.

Ok.. Jumping off the Ross bandwagon again…

PWNdroia
3 years 6 months ago

I agree.  But why did they sign Scutaro if they want to get rid of him?  It seems like there is a big problem among Red Sox fans with this budget.  I think the owners are preventing Ben Cherington from getting what we need.  That hasn’t become a problem until the end of December came.  Before that there wasn’t much budget talks.

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

The Sox are trying to reset the percentage on the luxury tax. Right now they are around the $178 million limit. If they stay under that number then next year they can spend as much as they want and not pay the tax. But if they go over then next season they will pay 50% for every dollar. This year they would pay 40% for every dollar. Its a pretty big fine and I am entirely for staying under the limit if it means they will spend big next offseason. I think the team can very well compete this season with minimal additions. Trading Scutaro would give them around $6million salary relief. Oswalt is asking around one year $8million. They need pitching way more than a shortstop. So they can afford to trade Scutaro without losing much. If it nets them a decent prospect that is a big plus as well. Iglesias should be able to cover SS with good defense. 

PWNdroia
3 years 6 months ago

I’m not saying I disagree.  I agree with you that we should stay under the tax, I’m just failing to see how picking up Scutaro’s option was advantageous to us seeing as it brought us closer to 50% luxury tax.  Now that doesn’t seem like smart money management.

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Yeah seems like the front office was a bit confused about what they wanted to do. Picking up a guy’s option and then attempting to trade him for salary relief so they can sign someone else. Doesn’t make much sense at all unless they picked up the option because they thought they can trade him for a decent prospect. 

PWNdroia
3 years 6 months ago

I think the latter was one of their intentions if I recall Cherington’s quote.

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Well apparently they got 26 year old Clayton Mortensen from the Rockies. Not really anything special but I guess you can never have enough pitching depth. Now I just hope they give Oswalt that one year $8million deal.

PWNdroia
3 years 6 months ago

Didn’t even know they traded him.  This is news.  Yeah, if it frees up some money, I suppose that’s a plus.

3 years 6 months ago

not surprising about pudge.  they have had multiple opportunities to get him back, and haven’t.  

3 years 6 months ago

The problem is they are right up against the budget. I thought sox would decide to go over but it seems they might not. 

PWNdroia
3 years 6 months ago

That wasn’t a problem a month and a half ago when they willingly took Scutaro’s option.

Beavis De Beppo
3 years 6 months ago

And the Reds are interested in Jeff Francis, why exactly?  Unless he could be had for next to nothing, I must be missing something…

smokinjays
3 years 6 months ago

Francis to the Jays? To pitch? Instead off all those young arms? I certainly hope not!

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

 yah because the fact that brett cecil’s young is pretty much all he has going for him

3 years 6 months ago

cecil is at least as good as francis though, no? 

younger and at least he had some success against the AL East back in 2010. i see francis as cannon fodder if he signs with an AL East team, cecil i still think can be valuable in some capacity for the jays. i think he bounces back this year.

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

I don’t get the ‘bounces back’ argument

his xFIP in 2010 was 4.15, 2011? 4.47

There’s a difference for sure, but 2010 was really lucky for him

3 years 6 months ago

basically you just pointed out that there has been variation in his performance, but i’m not sure how you can attribute luck into either year. if anything 2010 has more data, making it less likely to be the outlier, and even moreso if you believe cecil can recover the 1.5mph on his fastball. 

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

k here’s his data from 3 years in the bigs

09-42% GB, 14.8% HR/FB
10-44% GB, 8.7% HR/FB
11-38% GB, 13.3% HR/FB

2010 was definitely the outlier, atleast so far.. and there is no guarantee that he rediscovers that velocity.. there’s no doubt in my mind that if Cecil has a future on the jays, its in the bullpen.. maybe not for 2012, but for sure by 2013.

3 years 6 months ago

i think you are probably right in the end given the strength of the arms coming up behind him in the system. that or he gets traded to a team with a park more forgiving to his HR susceptibility (altho his HR numbers have been quite volatile thus far as you pointed out).

i dunno i just think that 2010, being the longest continuous sample and being the year in which his ERA matched most nicely with his supposed true performance, gives the more reliable indication of his true talent. i would tend to lean against using the numbers from his rookie season mostly because it was before the development of his change up as a reliable pitch.  

Lunchbox45
3 years 6 months ago

 i agree with everything you’re saying… and yes the numbers dont tell the whole story.

the thing for me that i dont buy the ‘bounce back’ scenario is just that i dont think hes that good to begin with.. even in 2010, where we can both agree he showed what he could be, he wasn’t all that good.

I feel like he’d be good in a big spacious NL park (then again what pitcher wouldn’t?)

coreybishop
3 years 6 months ago

I’m not sure if Frank Wren is serious, or if he’s trying to convince himself. What is that, the 50th time we’ve heard that this off season?

Snoochies8
3 years 6 months ago

adrian cardenas or eric sogard or adam rosales could be ok options to go to the reds

Jacob
3 years 6 months ago

I think the Reds HAVE to bring in another IF, and I wouldn’t mind bringing in another SP as well. The gap between Latos/Cueto and the rest of the rotation is just too big. I wouldn’t hate an Edwin Jackson signing, but I’m not sure where that money’s going to come from. As far as the infield situation, there’s just wayyyy too many questions there. Cozart, in my mind, is easily the biggest question mark, followed by Rolen’s health and how Francisco (or Frazier) will produce in his absence. All in all, I think the people calling for the Reds to run away and hide in the Central are nuts…this is MAYBE a 90 win team on paper, and with the East looking the way it is, 2nd place in the Central ain’t gonna get ya a WC spot. All in all, I think at least one or two moves still need to be made.

Beavis De Beppo
3 years 6 months ago

Nah.  Who are they gonna’ get that is better than what they have?  And the Reds were never in a position to sign a FA like Edwin Jackson.  They made two lopsided (talent-wise) trades to free up enough cash just to sign Ludwick!  The Madson deal was simply an upgrade that had little effect on payroll, or at the most, allowed for the Arredondo extension and a couple arb settlements.  I think Rolen will hold up for 110 or so, and Frazier and Francisco can compete for the scraps.  As for Cozart, he’s a 27 year old rookie.  It’s time to sink or swim.  He’ll be fine.  Probably won’t win ROY, but will provide more than just about any other Red SS since Barry Larkin.

slider32
3 years 6 months ago

I think Frazier will fit in well as a utility man, the Reds have improved their team by their moves this off season, but they aren’t a lock in the Central.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

The G-men better lock up Timmy ASAP because if he reaches free agency, he’s good as gone! Cashman is probably licking his chops thinking about the year that Lincecum officially becomes a free agent

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 6 months ago

Maybe depending on their payroll. Aren’t the Yankees trying to get under the luxury tax, I think I saw on MLB Network that by doing so, they could make/save $100 million.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

Maybe they are but c’mon, they are the yankees. If they aren’t afraid to give 275 million to A-Rod, what makes you think they wont overpay to sign the Freak. Plus, spending money is part of “the yankee way”. thats just what they do

slider32
3 years 6 months ago

The new CBA was not in affect at that time, this is different. Plus I think the Yanks realize that the A-Rod move has straped them a bit. Cashman has the experience now and is making all the right moves.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

I think the Yanks would risk paying a little extra money to have a 2X Cy Young award winner in their rotation. 

3 years 6 months ago

NYY will save on the luxury tax by upgrading their rotation with their young core of power arms (Betances, Banuelos, etc.). Burnett, Kuroda won’t be there after 2012, so the projected, if I’m not mistaken could include: Sabathia, Pineda, Nova, Betances, Banuelos. 

*Provided that they trade Burnett, who becomes a FA in 2014.

That’s a pretty scary, and reasonably priced rotation.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

I agree with blackcourt. The rotation you mentioned indeed shows a lot of potential but only on paper at the moment. What’s nice about playing for the Yankees though when you are a pitcher is that he will get a lot of run support. So these young pitchers will be able to afford pitching a mediocre game and still might get the W

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Yup the run support is undeniable, look at Phil Hughes a few years ago. He didnt pitch all that well but won 18 games I think it was. 

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

Lincecum could probably win 20 or so games playing for Boston or NY. That is if he can adjust to AL hitting and playing for a large market team

slider32
3 years 6 months ago

The Yanks only need to be under tha cap in 2014 to save money by going over the cap after that, so I see them at 189 million in 2014 only. River Avenue Blues has a good article on this.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 6 months ago

The MLBN thing said they need to stay under it for the 3 years or so the CBA would continue to be in existence. (I doubt they do).

3 years 6 months ago

Imagine if he signs a 1-year deal with SF then bolts for LAD when they have some money in 2013. That rivalry would become epic.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

That sure would add to the dry rivalry at the moment. It would be a total back-stabber to the giants but every baseball player gets greedy regardless

bayareabeast
3 years 6 months ago

good news about timmy and the giants. the smoother this goes the smoother an extension will be hopefully. keep the blood good

3 years 6 months ago

Really hope the Braves bullpen is deeper than it was last year.  Gonna need it late August and September if the majority of our starters fail to make it to the 7th inning every game like last season.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

No more Proctor , Linebrink .
 
Guys there this year that were there last year are Kimbrel , Venters , O’Flaherty , C. Martinez .

Guys that will be there this year that were not there either all or most of last year are Medlen , Vizcaino .

Guys that could come into the pen in case of injury or under performance are Varvarro , Hoover , and then whoever doesn’t make it into the starting rotation like Teheran and Delgado .

The rotation and pen will be very deep . And I didn’t mention Moylan cause of the fact of uncertainty of when he will be able to come back .

3 years 6 months ago

The addition of Medlen is going to be awesome.  Venters, O’ Flaherty, and Kimbrel have 3 innings on lock down, but it’s the tie games and games we barely trailed late that always worried me (which I guess is true for every team).  Now with Medlen, Moylan (probably), Vizcaino (possibly), and Martinez I feel pretty confident in our entire pen.  Gonna miss Sherrill being the LOOGY though.  He was great against lefties.

Spell check hates all of their names.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Medlen is actually really good against lefties with his change up . But he is going to give us an edge in relief seeing how he is a better version of C-Mart in that he can pitch 1 or 2 innings one night and then give us some much needed nights of 3 or 4 innings to give O’Ventbrel some rest .

3 years 6 months ago

And Sherrill….THANK GOODNESS!

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

I forgot Sherrill as well as guys who are not there this year .

bucs_lose_again
3 years 6 months ago

Hate to be a stickler, but where is the Carlos Pena update?  Just saw on the bottom line he and the Rays had reached an agreement.

bravesdude
3 years 6 months ago

Is that Ric Flair in your pic ? Woooooohh !!

gmenfan
3 years 6 months ago

Was posted early yesterday …

link to mlbtraderumors.com

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

Frank Wren says that the Braves have no “major personnel need”.  Translated;  “Liberty Media won’t give me the money to sign the right handed back-up CF that we desperately need”.

Matt Talbert
3 years 6 months ago

We don’t need a backup CF.  We need one or two solid utility players,  I think.  Bringing in Sutton was a smart, low-cost move, but we need more options at the very least. 

Brv Rocks
3 years 6 months ago

EVERY team needs a backup CF.  If Bourn gets hurt they are going to be stuck with Jose’ Freakin’ Constanza in CF.  On top of the fact that he is a AAAA caliber player he is left-handed.  Hinske and Diaz both looked like toast last year so they are fairly worthless other than as pinch hitters.   With Chipper, Prado and Heyward all with injury histories they desperately need a major league caliber back-up OF.  The primary back-up OF for the Braves will likely get 400+ at bats next season.  I don’t want those at-bats going to Hinske, Diaz or Constanza.

The Braves don’t need any more utility players.  They have Jack Wilson, Martin Prado, and Drew Sutton.  No team has more than 1 or 2 utility players.  The fact that Prado is one of the primary utility infielders gives even more pressing need for a solid back-up OF.

Cody Ross would be the ideal player for the Braves.  They don’t need to let an already stacked Red Sox team get him.

3 years 6 months ago

Could not agree more. Constanza’s decent numbers were a fluke over the long-term. I’d be fine never seeing Wilson/Sutton ever in the batter’s box.

Also agreed on Cody Ross. Since we’ve already made it known that Prado could be available at the right price – and no one is paying that right price – Cody Ross on a 1-2 year deal could give us flexibility on the field this year, and it could be the push another needed to validate how serious we are in saying Prado is available so another team actually gives us a decent offer with some confidence. I don’t want to see Prado go, but it’s just a scenario I’m playing out.

bayareabeast
3 years 6 months ago

just saying..you dont want cody ross

James Attwood
3 years 6 months ago

Well, he is by no means a “replacement” for V-Mart, but the Tigers could do far worse than giving out a small, low-risk contract to Pudge to come in and DH/Catch. If he isn’t behind the plate every day, but he is getting regular ABs, he provides a solid, contact bat to place in the lower-middle of the order. And he can still spell the Catcher once a week or so, likely giving them about as solid of a catch-and-throw guy as they could hope for.

slider32
3 years 6 months ago

Lincecum is a great pitcher but his size and motion always make him a gamble to a small extent. The Giants have to make a big decision, I don’t think they can sign both Tim and Matt to big contracts.

dylanp5030
3 years 6 months ago

As will Phillies (if they lose Cole), Dodgers, and Cubs.

cardsfan209
3 years 6 months ago

I was just figuring that the Yankees  would be a top bidder to get one of the top pitchers in the MLB when the had the chance. But ya the red sox could be a bidder too. 

If he indeeds moves to a big team like the Yankees or the Sox, could you imagine how many wins he can rack up playing for a team that actually has an offense unlike the giants who don’t score runs period?

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Well if they cant sign both then it is a terribly hard choice. They are both the same age but Cain has been in the league a little bit longer. Lincecum has all the accolades with his Cy Youngs. He also strikes out more batters so that makes him a bit more “flashy” to some people. They both pitch 200+ innings year after year. Maybe they choose Cain because he should come a little bit cheaper and doesnt have a funky delivery like Lincecum. But even though Im not a Giants fan and I would love either of them on the Red Sox, I hope they can keep them both.

3 years 6 months ago

They’ve been saying that his entire career…

3 years 6 months ago

They should have the resources to sign both.

jhawk1000
3 years 6 months ago

His dad taught him his throwing motion after studying the physics behind a pitchers throwing motion. Tim’s motion uses ALL of the major muscle groups thus REDUCING strain on the shoulder and elbow. It only looks strange because it’s actually correct, compared to others. If he sticks with how he was taught, he should have a solid and lengthy career.

3 years 6 months ago

None of us know what’ll happen to him, but why does his peculiar motion mean that he’ll have pitching problems in the future. His motion doesn’t strain muscles like some motions can (i.e. Tommy Hanson’s jerky delivery). Not many pitchers do (or should) pitch into their last 30’s. The man already has 2 Cy Youngs (and has finished in the top 10 in Cy Young voting every season he’s started 25+ games (4 of 5)). 

I don’t believe in paying for a guy’s past, but there are a lot lesser pitchers getting $100M contracts.

gmenfan
3 years 6 months ago

Its pretty clear that the organization has the resources to sign both. Unfortunately, the minority owners are not likely to loosen the purse strings wide enough to do so. A shame …

3 years 6 months ago

That’s funny, coming from a BoSox fan. The only scary on paper the Sox rotation has is their escalating contracts. How many starts will Lackey have this year? 

When I mentioned the rotation, I’m presuming that the 2 will continue to remain on the team and keep taking more steps forward than backwards. Considering the offense NYY has, they could easily pitch not up to their potential and still win ball games (i.e. Ivan Nova). And they’d going after the 4-5 slots in the rotation, not the 1-2. That offense is a nice cushion.

And if the 2 don’t pan out, they can always trade them for a proven arm, like what they did with Montero. Their management of Montero last year, playing him just enough to tease opposing clubs, but not enough to allow him to go through a slump ultimately got Pineda.

jjs91
3 years 6 months ago

You never say that about clay now do you?

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

Isnt Betances projected for the pen anyway?

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

If they dont pan out you expect other teams to give up a proven arm for them? I  guess they would be able to fetch a 4-5 starter for either one of them if they dont pan out. Not much more than that though. 

jhawk1000
3 years 6 months ago

You made my point for me with that player pick. Their motions are completely different- not to mention the experts used to say he  had some of the nastiest stuff and an EASY, repeatable motion. I’ve never read anywhere where they thought it was going to be durable on his elbow because of how low his release point was compared to his shoulder height. Not too mention he only had one season where he broke 200 innings, compared to 4 straight for Lincecum. My point is just because it’s different from what we’re used to seeing doesn’t mean it won’t work long term.

Tko11
3 years 6 months ago

I dont get your logic…the one year Clay started he was great and had a War of 5.3 last year he was injured pitched 14 games and still put up a 2.3 War. He has proven he can be a good big league pitcher. Betances and Banuelos are prospects…either way from what I read Betances is projected for the pen. 

3 years 6 months ago

That’s my point. NYY, like they did with Montero, knows how to expose them just enough to try and maximize their potential in the majors without giving them time to slump. Now, they could easily start off poorly – like most rookies – and not be able to maximize what they get out of him. Point is, just like Kuroda, NYY can stand to go out and get a quality inning-eater if Betances/Banuelos don’t pan out for those spots. They don’t need them to fill the 1-2 role that CC/Pineda have.

I believe that teams will give up a lot, maybe not a quality SP so much as a starting position player, for a top prospect pitcher that maybe hasn’t excelled with the club. I think it’s pretty common knowledge that teams like NYY’s “hand-me-downs” knowing how tough it is to pitch for NYY because of the expectations, etc. It’ll take a particular kind of mental makeup to thrive in that environment.

jjs91
3 years 6 months ago

It was in reference to pineda and most people project betances as astarter. Not to mention that nova was having a better year last year than clay

bayareabeast
3 years 6 months ago

lol..you seriously wasted your time doing these?

MNTwins12
3 years 6 months ago

I thought the one on the right was Clayton Kershaw at first. lol

lefty177
3 years 6 months ago

even though Lincecum’s mechanics do look weird/unnatural, they are in my opinion the most ideal mechanics in the MLB