Quick Hits: Pirates, Verlander, Camp

On this date 14 years ago, the Mets sent pitching prospect A.J. Burnett to the defending World Series champion Marlins for Al Leiter. New York's other team was also busy that day — the Yankees acquired Chuck Knoblauch from the Twins. So far today we've seen one major trade take place and here are some assorted links to read as we await the next significant move…

89 Responses to Quick Hits: Pirates, Verlander, Camp Leave a Reply

  1. Chillin_in_California 3 years ago

    Verlander says “I want to stay in Detroit forever”. Translation I cant wait till FA so I can get outta here. Didnt pujols say the same thing a couple years back and we all know what he did

    • Nice, sample size of 1.

      • TophersReds 3 years ago

        Quick! Somebody make the “I LOVE Small Sample Sizes” T-Shirts!

        • Wes Whitenack 3 years ago

          I like small sample sizes and I cannot lie….

    • verlander 3 years ago

      I think Verlander will stay in Detroit if they pay him.

      • start_wearing_purple
        start_wearing_purple 3 years ago

        Completely agree. Of course he’ll want to stay in Detroit… as long as he’s paid like an ace. If they ever low-balled him, he’d change his tune pretty quickly. His current deal is through 2014 so I doubt we’ll see extension talks until after the 2013 season.

        • verlander 3 years ago

          I think you’re probably right.  I also think the Tigers would be more likely to keep Verlander at the expense of Cabrera.

          • Pawsdeep 3 years ago

            With fielder now on payroll for 9 years, that’s probably a true statement.

            However, I’m sure Cabrera will atleast try to work something out with the tigers. The organization has been very good to him and has given him the utmost respect in some pretty delicate situations. DD bailed him out of jail and picked him up personally; the organization cares about him beyond as a player and that can go a long way.

          • verlander 3 years ago

            That’s possible. Then again, if the Tigers get to a point where it looks like they can only keep two of Verlander, Cabrera, and Fielder, Cabrera will probably be the most tradeable because of his contract and what he’d bring back in a trade.

            But I do hope they can keep those three together for as long as possible and build around them.

    • JacksTigers 3 years ago

      St. Louis low balled him. It’s hard to pass up $50MM. That’s not what he was saying at all.

      • $220 million over 10 years isn’t a “lowball”. He had said he wanted to be in St. Louis forever, and a couple years ago he said he wouldn’t leave for $3-4 million more a year. After not being able to agree to terms on a 9-10 year deal in ST, the Cards decided to try a shorter deal for 5/125. Pujols was “insulted” and the talks didn’t get very far after that.

        • JacksTigers 3 years ago

          That maybe so, but either way, Verlander and Pujols are two different people. You can’t take what Pujols did and apply it to Verlander.

          • Of course not. And when Verlander says it he very likely means it. He wants to stay in Detroit, but would he leave for more money? Yep. Sadly, it’s just the way this system works. Players want “respect” and to them that means the most $$$ shows the most respect.

          • FunkyTime 3 years ago

            If he’s serious about wanting to stay he will, even if it’s possible he could get more money elsewhere.  The reason for that is the Tigers will not lowball him, and he would sign an extension before he hits free agency.

            The Tigers gave big money extensions to Carlos Guillen, Nate Robertson, and Dontrelle Willis.  I think they’ve learned from those mistakes.  But there’s no question in my mind that they’ll attempt to do the same with Justin Verlander.  Hell … they’ve already paid him market value to extend his contract once before.

          • tapehead4 3 years ago

            Now that you mention it, I’ve never seen those two in the same place at the same time…

          • So, you did not watch the 2006 WS or the interleagues since 2006

          • JacksTigers 3 years ago

            Or te All-Star Games.

    • dtowntigers43 3 years ago

      Dont judge our city if you dont live her, its not a bad place to be so i dont know what your saying and im sure hed love to stay with the tigers who have a bright future and have gave him every shot to be great! Dont judge Detroit unless youve been here and im sure if you said that here you wouldnt be breathing 

    • Well, he could’ve said Detroit is “beautiful”, “friendly”, “great area to raise a family”, etc. He said it’s “unique”. Next step…take full-length photo of Verlander. Photoshop pinstripes over uniform.

      • Not every player in MLB wants to play in NY. Greinke said no. Rodgers, JV´s mentor hated NY.Randy Johnson ran away as soon as he could.

  2. InLeylandWeTrust 3 years ago

    Yeah Verlander isn’t going anywhere. Drafted by Detroit, rose to stardom here, and he is probably the most popular athlete in the city. Even if he were to want to go to the highest bidder, there would be no shot of Illitch letting him leave.

    • If the Tigers re-sign Verlander, like we all know they will, i’ll keep holding my breath for Kershaw.

    • Guest 3 years ago

      you just described exactly how Pujols was in St. Louis. Trust me bud, if Verlander reaches free agency and a team like Boston, New York, or LA is in need of a starter and has money to spend, they will very likely outbid the Tigers. Especially now since the Tigers just wasted 200 million on Prince who they didn’t even need.

      • JacksTigers 3 years ago

        The Fielder deal will pay through itself through revenue. I’m not worried about that. Mike Ilitch is worth $2BB and has several companies that are doing very well including Mortor City Casino, Little Ceasars, Hockeytown Cafe, and of course the big ones, the Tigers and Red Wings. He loves the city and has show that if he wants a player bad enough, he will pay for them to stay. Personally, I see extentions heading towards Cabrera, Verlander, Avila, and Scherezer before any of them reach free agency. That’s just how he works.

        • Guest 3 years ago

          I don’t know if you are aware but New York spent 275 million to sign A-rod, 180 million each for Teixeira and Sabathia and 50+ million recently for Jeter, I dont think they would shy away from trying to nab the best pitcher in baseball.

          • Paul Shailor 3 years ago

             Oh they will for sure go for him! But I think what Jack is saying is that Illitch will make it happen no matter what the price.

          • verlander 3 years ago

            They can try, but they’ll have to pry him from Ilitch’s cold, dead hands. 

          • Stuart Brown 3 years ago

            Precisely. If Ilitch wants to keep a player, he’s going to do his damnedest to keep that player. Regardless of expense. This is much more the case nowadays that there are players actually worth keeping.

          • JacksTigers 3 years ago

            I said that they will give him an extention. I’m sorry, but New York can’t take players that aren’t up for sale.

      • Paul Shailor 3 years ago

         The difference between Verlander and Pujols is the Tigers have proven that they will go out and spend on big free agents. The Cardinals made the best offer they saw fit. Verlander is already making 20 mil this year, so we can afford both him and Fielder making that much.

        Now dont get me wrong if he hits the FA market EVERY team will be in on him because you never can have enough SP so his price would be huge, however I think he would stay with the Tigers because they have an owner who is committed to winning and has the money to make it happen.

      • verlander 3 years ago

        If Ilitch really wants to keep Verlander, he will.

  3. Camp can be a decent pitcher, particularly if you need that GiDP.

  4. Madson wasn’t exactly “under-the-radar.” The deal was worse than expected, but everyone was waiting for something to happen. I wouldn’t call that under-the-radar. 

  5. Guest 3 years ago

    Was anyone shocked that Edwin Jackson turned down a 3 year offer from the Pirates? Nope not at all. I can’t imagine one decent free agent signing any deal over 1 year to play for a team that can’t reach .500 each year.

    • Edwin has a ring now, unfortunately. I would have taken the 3-year deal.

      • Guest 3 years ago

        Just because he has a ring, what makes you think he would want to waste the next 3 years of his baseball career playing for a losing team? At least with the Nationals, they have a more realistic chance of reaching the playoffs than the Pirates do.

        • Smrtbusnisman04 3 years ago

          The NL Central is wide open right now. If Pedro Alvarez and/or Casey Mcgehee find their swing, in addition to a great pitching rotation and terrific bullpen, the Pirates could be a contender.

          • pennypincher 3 years ago

            Great pitching rotation – ha.
            Terrific bullpen- ha.
            Pirates could be a contender – ha

            Their lineup is full of holes, lacking any form of feared power hitter, instead relying on Tabata and McCutchen, two guys who gets respectable average and a dozen homers or so, their rotation is questionable at best, lacking anyone who is a sure thing to be above average, and bullpen is the most volatile piece of the team.  How many times have we seen great relievers go splat in the past few seasons due to different reasons? Ryan Franklin, Brad Lidge (to a certain degree), Hong-Chih Kuo, Trevor Hoffman, Jonathan Broxton, the list goes on.

          • Paul Shailor 3 years ago

            Great pitching rotation? Someone has a low standard for great. Heck there are maybe 3-4 great rotations in baseball atm in Giants, Phillies, Angels, and maybe the Rays.

          • Guest 3 years ago

            A “great” pitching rotation can be found in TB. I think you are being a little bit too generous when describing the Pirates rotation. We all saw last year that right when Pittsburgh looked like they were heading towards the top of the division for a few weeks, they immediately fell flat on their faces and went back to below .500. They have some nice peaces don’t get me wrong, by contending this year is very unlikely

          • Smrtbusnisman04 3 years ago

            i meant to say decent rotation ok. I know they still have many questions regarding of the stamina. They feel apart last year because they had no pitching depth and their offense lacked a few pieces.

        • It’s 3 years of security over 1 year. The Nats are not a playoff contender yet…just like the Pirates.

          • Guest 3 years ago

            Even if the Nats don’t contend this year, Jackson can say his goodbyes and find another team to play for in 2013. That sounds a whole lot more preferable than being stuck in a place for 3 years and not winning

          • Bleed_Orange 3 years ago

            In all fairness he probably would be traded before the 3 years were up.  He’s not good enough for the 1 year deal, and with the sp market next year it’ll probably be anohter losing team that will want him as an innings eater.

    • Smrtbusnisman04 3 years ago

      I can’t wait for Gerrit Cole and Jameson Taillon reach the majors so people like you who keep preaching this stigma finally shut up.

      Now that Fielder and Puljols have left the NL, one more good pitcher could probably make the Pirates a contender.

      • Lastings 3 years ago

         As long as Jerry Meals isn’t calling a Pirates game…

      • Paul Shailor 3 years ago

         What stigma? They havent reached .500 in 20 years. Its a fact. Sure  Cole and Taillon will come up eventually but you know what the Nationals have a MUCH better chance to win right now.

        Also Edwin Jackson does not make the Pirates, or really any team, a contender.

        • skoods 3 years ago

          The Nationals are about equal with Pittsburgh right now. For all the extra talent that Washington has, they play in a much harder division. Having to play Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Florida all year is a lot more difficult than having to play the NL Central’s trash.

      • Guest 3 years ago

        I’m just being realistic. Besides Taillon and Cole still have quite a ways to go before they reach the show. Right now, they still are a 4th or 5th place team with St Louis, Milwaukee and Cincinatti in the division even without Pujols or Fielder.

        • start_wearing_purple
          start_wearing_purple 3 years ago

          You forget that Braun is probably sitting out for 50 games which makes the division even weaker. The Pirates were briefly in the race last season. With a little luck I wouldn’t count them out.

      • start_wearing_purple
        start_wearing_purple 3 years ago

        I just want the Pirates to have a winning season. While it is a little funny watching the longest losing streak in sports, the Pirates are one of the oldest franchises in baseball with a proud history with players like Honus Wagner, Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell, etc.

        I do agree, the NL Central is weaker than ever right now, I’d say the division is a toss up between the Reds and Cards… but a single good pitcher on the Pirates could make them a threat.

        • Ian_Smell 3 years ago

          It stopped being funny a long time ago, now it’s just sad. If it goes any longer, they’re going to get run out of town.

          • skoods 3 years ago

            Like Pittsburgh almost ran the Penguins out of town so the NHL had to rig the draft for them to get Sidney Crysby?

          • shakeweight22 3 years ago

            yeah because they would rig a draft to keep a team in such a huge market like Pittsburgh that makes a lot of sense…

      • pennypincher 3 years ago

        you mean FIVE more good pitcher could probably make the Pirates a contender.

        The only teams Pirates can beat in the central are the Astros and the Cubs, and even that’s not a guarantee.

        • Pirates against the nl central last year- astros 11-7, cincinnati 10-5, cubs 8-8, st.louis (world series champs) 7-9, milwaukee 3-12

          • pennypincher 3 years ago

            Pirates against the NL outside of central: 33-49.  Besides, I wasn’t specifically stating “Pirates cannot win against ….”, it is kinda assumed that it isn’t hard to understand I meant the standings overall.

        • Todd Smith 3 years ago

          Jeff Karstens last year:
          3.38 ERA, 1.207 WHIP, 2.91 SO/BB

          Edwin Jackson last year:
          3.92 ERA, 1.422 WHIP, 2.49 SO/BB

          Gio Gonzalez last year:
          3.12 ERA, 1.317 WHIP, 2.16 SO/BB

          Karstens is the #4 pitcher in the Pirates rotation.

          • pennypincher 3 years ago

            Jeff Karstens in ’09: 5.42 ERA, 1.481 WHIP, 1.16 SO/BB
            Jeff Karstens in ’10: 4.92 ERA, 1.410 WHIP, 2.67 SO/BB
            Jeff Karstens career: 4.52 ERA, 1.365 WHIP, 1.91 SO/BB

            A good rotation might not even have this kind of production from their #5 guy.  Karstens is servicable at best, until I see more of this “improvement” from him.

            Charlie Morton in ’11: 1.532 WHIP, 4.08 xFIP, 4.0 BB/9. Not bad but not good either, and that’s his career year.

            James McDonald in ’11: 1.485 WHIP, 4.46 xFIP, 4.11 BB/9.  Again, not bad but not good either, another career year here.

            Paul Maholm in ’11: 1.294 WHIP (about 130 points below his career average), 5.38 SO/9, 4.03 xFIP BUT his BABIP is 20 points below his career average.  For the third time, not bad but not good.

            Kevin Correia in ’11: 4.79 ERA, 1.390 WHIP, 4.55 SO/9, and his BABIP wasn’t too far off his career average.  That “good” to you?

            Those are the five starters in the Pirates rotation.  Do those stats honestly say “good pitcher!” to you?

            Obviously I’m only picking the stats that is helpful to my side of the argument, but to be honest, I do not believe that any of these guys are “good” until they repeat their performance a couple more times.

          • Todd Smith 3 years ago

            You are looking at a group of guys that have only started 15+ games for 1 or 2 years and saying they have had “career years”?  That seems awfully foolish.  You think the rotation is bad based on nothing more than your own assumption that they will not continue to improve.  Based on that logic, would you argue that the Braves rotation is a weakness as well?
            Also, Paul Maholm is a Cub.

          • pennypincher 3 years ago

            I’m basing it on last year’s rotation, not this year, so I put Maholm in there.
              Another point, how else am I suppose to base their career years? Career year is simply the best year of their career, and mark my words, Jeff Karstens probably had one of this top 3 seasons.  And my “foolish assumptions”? Please, go look at fangraphs and see their projections for these guys.  Are they always accurate? No.  Can you come up with something better?All the projections at fangraphs have all these people in the mediocre area, the 4-somethings ERA, except Bedard, whom they pegged at around 120 to 130 IP.  You can dream all you want, the Pirates rotation will never be considered good in 2012 unless some major surprises (or minor miracles, your pick) happen.

          • Todd Smith 3 years ago

            Again, you seem to want to ignore facts and results and base your opinions solely on guesses, hunches and predictions.

            The fact that you don’t even know who is in the Pirates rotations seems to sum it up perfectly.

      • Chillin_in_California 3 years ago

        Yeah and Im the Easter bunny

    • Todd Smith 3 years ago

      Exactly.  It’s absurd to think a player would be willing to sign with a team that has lost 393 games over the past 4 seasons – especially when that player is given a chance to sign a cheaper deal with a team that has only lost 375 games over the past 4 seasons.

      Throw in Rick Ankiel, and it’s a no-brainer.  The Nats are serious.

      • pennypincher 3 years ago

        Exactly! It’s absurd to think a player would be willing to sign with a team that is regarded as an up-and-coming team in the weakened NL East with aging Phillies and problematic Mets – especially when the alternative is to sign a three year deal with a team that is synonymous with futility for the past two decades and trades prospects in attempt to reach .500

        Throw in Rick Ankiel, and it’s a no-brainer.  The Nats are smart with their investments, signing a cheap stop-gap solution and not stupid enough to waste some prospects on some expensive solution until their top prospects arrive.

        • Todd Smith 3 years ago

          Hey, I love the Nats.  Can always count on them to overspend and bail other teams out from making bad decisions.  If not for them, we’d all have to worry about our teams trading away the farm for a guy like Gio Gonzalez – or giving a ton of money to a guy like Jayson Werth.  Luckily, the Pirates were saved this time from locking up a guy like Edwin Jackson for three years.

          As far as being synonymous with futility, the Nationals have built their team almost entirely by being the worst team in the league – and they still haven’t finished over .500 since they were in Montreal.  The Pirates don’t trade prospects, they trade washed up scrubs.  To the Nationals.  For Joel Hanrahan.  Congrats on the savvy moves.

  6. YEA. Go Pirates

  7. Karkat 3 years ago

    WXYZ-TV? Really?

    I hope Verlander stays with Detroit. I was actually rather disappointed to see Pujols move on.

  8. Caballo14 3 years ago

    Players almost always say they never wanna leave, lets see if he says that when a team like the Yankees or Red Sox offer him a 200+ mil contract (hope the Yankees don’t give him anything close to that).

  9. Jade Mcdermott 3 years ago

    Mariners are going to love camp I am jays fan and he has been pretty steady here for years

  10. Nobody is forgetting how weak the division is or how highly-regarded Taillon and Cole are. The Pirates are not ready to contend. They are more than 60 HR from from Alvarez and McGehee from a real chance at the moment.

  11. verlander 3 years ago

    If, say, the Yankees come at Verlander with $200 mil contract, I really do think Ilitch, if he’s still around, will match or better it. Ilitch, as an owner, is loyal almost to a fault and loves rewarding his players.  Verlander is definitely a player I could see Ilitch throwing crazy money at to hang onto.

    • start_wearing_purple
      start_wearing_purple 3 years ago

      Well until a precedent gets set I don’t see any pitcher getting a $200M contract any time in the near future. Part of giving a player a $200M deal is the knowledge that a lot of that money will be earned back by marketing the player. It just seems harder to do that when the player in question will appear in only a fifth of the games.

      At least that’s my logic to it.

    • Vote4DougWilson 3 years ago

      I think JV is the only pitcher I would consider giving a contract like that to. He’s been durable as can be, is fiercely dedicated to staying in shape and improving every year, and would never coast. His delivery also looks about as fluid and injury resistant as it gets, and even if his fastball dips into the mid or low 90s as he ages, his breaking stuff is all good enough to continue beating hitters. A lot of pitchers don’t age well, but he looks like he could hum along as long as Nolan Ryan did blowing people away.

      • verlander 3 years ago

        For all the innings he’s pitched, he does seem to be pretty durable and you’re right, he’s definitely not a one-pitch pitcher.  I’d probably consider a long-term contract, too.

  12. j6takish 3 years ago

    Illitch is probably the only owner in sports who actually will pay out of his own pocket while his team runs at a loss to sustain a winning team, pretty sure he did just that in 2008. Hopefully the Tigers stay in his family

    • verlander 3 years ago

      I just hope whoever takes the helm after Ilitch is gone is as willing to run the team as Ilitch has been.  I don’t want another Karen Davidson situation. I don’t even care about the Pistons, but that was painful to watch

  13. A no-hitter guy for a guy who would throw a no-hitter. Even though AJ threw probably the second worst nohitter of all time (behind the guy that lost his)

  14. formerdraftpick 3 years ago

    As for the Pirates putting in a bid for Jackson.  I thought this was mlbtraderumors not the landofmakebelieverumors.  Now if the Pirates claimed Clay from the O’s, I’d believe that.  

    • shakeweight22 3 years ago

      do you have insider information confirming this to not be true? just because he didn’t accept doesn’t make ‘made up’. of course he didn’t accept a three year deal her because a) who would and b) he wants to try again for a five year deal next year. rosenthal also reported the pirates offered a one year deal for less than the nationals but you’re kidding yourself if you think he would have turned down 1yr/15 mil. weaker division and a better chance to build value. listen I understand the pirates suck I was 2 the last time they had a winning season but I’m sure picking on them makes you feel better when your team finishes 82-80

  15. Detroit is a bigger market than St. Louis, and has more money to spend. You saw them acquire Prince and give him the 4th richest contract in baseball. No doubt they will have the resources to extend Verlander.

    • Vote4DougWilson 3 years ago

      I agree, but can they extend BOTH JV and Cabrera while still carrying Prince? I’m not so sure… Cabby could wind up being our Pujols.

      • Tigers94 3 years ago

        Illitch makes so much money off the Red Wings that he isnt able to spend on them due to the salary cap, so he uses the money on the Tigers instead. I doubt he would let Verlander or Cabrera go

        • Vote4DougWilson 3 years ago

          He may not live until they both hit FA though and no telling what the mood will be like in the front office after that.

          • verlander 3 years ago

            I guess it really just depends on what whomever inherits the franchise will want to do. Will they be as willing as Ilitch has been to run the team at a personal loss?

          • Vote4DougWilson 3 years ago

            That’s the million dollar question. Though, if they make a few WS appearances over the next few years, maybe they won’t be running at a loss even with those contracts?

          • verlander 3 years ago

            I think that’s what they’re hoping for.

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