Quick Hits: Hamels, Buchholz, Red Sox, Nationals

Earlier tonight, the Nationals' Bryce Harper became the first teenager to steal home since Ed Kirkpatrick did it for the Angels in 1964.  Meanwhile, tonight's injury sustained by Jayson Werth could shift the youngster over to right field for the time being.  Here are some links on this Sunday night..


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57 Comments on "Quick Hits: Hamels, Buchholz, Red Sox, Nationals"


ARod's Ring
3 years 3 months ago

After watching Chris Davis Throw 90 mph, 89-91 doesn’t sound impressive at all for a pitcher.

SantanaClaus
3 years 3 months ago

Then I don’t see a way Buchholz gets sent down because in what universe do the 29 other teams all see him on the waiver wire and say “pass”? If nothing else wouldn’t the Yankees claim him just to mess with the Red Sox?

thebigbangdito
3 years 3 months ago

Optional Waiver…. since he is 3 years since making his major league debut, he is an optional waiver eligible… which if they do send him down and someone claims him (lets say the yankees) the red sox have the choice of not sending him down and they keep him on their roster

leberquesgue
3 years 3 months ago

And wouldn’t that scupper the Red Sox’ plans to send him down? The question remains: why wouldn’t the Yankees do that?

3 years 3 months ago

Or Rays…Or Blue Jays..Or Orioles…

thebigbangdito
3 years 3 months ago

no… if u look at the history of optional waivers.. the large majority of players pass through waivers because other teams know that the team sending him down can just take him back

(this isnt me trying to start an argument of opinion and a hypothetical scenario of a team that would claim him just to screw over the red sox….. just stating that if you look at past optional waivers they go through

3 years 3 months ago

 It does seem like a poor choice though.  If a team in your division is trying to send down an underperforming player, why wouldn’t you make a move to force them to keep him on their roster?

thesultanofswingandmiss
3 years 3 months ago

Hamels will not reach C.C’s record. If he does I will probably fall out the window like I did with C.C’s.

MB923
3 years 3 months ago

Well you made it back alive. You don’t think you can make it back alive a 2nd time?

Cheri Kallem
3 years 3 months ago

Sending down Clay would make no sense unless theres an injury that we don’t know about then the Red Sox could send him down on a rehab assigment and he wouldn’t have to clear waivers or anything.

3 years 3 months ago

I am not a huge CC fan – he IS very good.  But Hamels doesn’t hold a candle to what CC did before he signed for what he did.  Hamels will be the next Barry Zito contract.  Book that.

Whowonthe2009WorldSeries
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah, I mean they’re pretty much nothing a like.

Muggi
3 years 3 months ago

Um…Zito was never as good as Hamels. He had one great season, followed it with two decent seasons, and three barely-above-replacement seasons…then got a huge contract.

When Zito signed, his WAR had decreased every season for 5 seasons in a row. He had never posted an xFIP below 4.30 (and was over 5 in his last season in Oakland, another reason people with basic baseball knowledge knew it was bad from the get-go).

Hamels has never posted less than 3.6 WAR in a full season, had his BEST season ever last year. His xFIP has never been higher than 3.63, and he posted his lowest ever last season.

Zito was already in decline when he signed; had been for years. Hamels is only getting BETTER. The two are not comparable in the least.

Cheri Kallem
3 years 3 months ago

Also in the American League is it allowed to have a hitter pitch but play DH if hes good with the bat or is it not allowed? Just curious

leberquesgue
3 years 3 months ago

If a DH takes the field during a game (not usually to pitch, of course, but sometimes!), the team relinquishes the DH. Thus when Davis and MacDonald came up to bat in the 17th inning, each was listed as P, not DH.

NomarGarciaparra
3 years 3 months ago

You can forfeit the right to an DH…so yes, your pitcher can bat.

Robert_Risteen
3 years 3 months ago

Yep happen to Seattle this week in Tampa when olivo got hurt they had to put Montero in from dh to catch

3 years 3 months ago

Well a manager doesn’t HAVE to “field” a DH. They can always just put the pitcher in the line up.

Lastings
3 years 3 months ago

Pretty indicative of a team’s offense when they are contemplating sending down a 3-1 pitcher because he is struggling. How many guys with an ERA over 9 have a winning record? Let alone lose just one game out of six starts…

MB923
3 years 3 months ago

This will sound like a silly question, but can a position player pitch and then go back to playing somewhere in the field afterwards, and have another position player pitch?

For instance, let’s say instead of Chris Davis pitching, Nick Johnson (the 1B) came in to pitch and let’s say Chris Davis took his spot at 1B., and then let’s say after Nick Johnson pitched, then Mark Reynolds pitched. Can Nick Johnson go back to 1B (with Davis then going from 1B to 3B). Or would Nick Johnson in that case have to be out of the game?

Meh Sheep
3 years 3 months ago

 Yes.  Happens frequently in little league.

3 years 3 months ago

It’s been years, but I remember seeing a few teams bring in a situational pitcher and send the pitcher to RF. After the one batter was out they would bring the pitcher back from RF. Maybe I was hallucinating. But I’m pretty sure that as long as the pitcher doesn’t leave the game he can keep pitching. Once removed from the field, they can’t go back in.

MB923
3 years 3 months ago

Come to think of it, didn’t that happen with Roy Oswalt playing LF 2 years ago?

Phadreus
3 years 3 months ago

There was also a guy on the Brewers a few years back that pitched and batted regularly.  He didnt often also play the field (he was really a mop up reliever and a PH) but he did do it a few times.

chico65
3 years 3 months ago

Brooks Kieschnick?

Phadreus
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah, I think that is him.

3 years 3 months ago

Last night I thought Peter Gammons stated Matt Wieters would catch for 7 innings come in and pitch an inning then go back out and catch the final inning for GA Tech.

As a side note I liked Gammons as an analyst for NESN, he’s so funny with his little low key one liners. I think he was in rare form by the time the 17th inning hit.

roomwithamoose
3 years 3 months ago

Of course that scenario is ludicrous… Nick Johnson would just get injured on the way to the mound. I kid, but I do think it works out that Johnson would be able to stay in the game.

MB923
3 years 3 months ago

Nick Johnson would get injured stepping on a sunflower seed

chico65
3 years 3 months ago

Double bubble is double trouble to him

Muggi
3 years 3 months ago

 As others have said, yep it’s legal. IIRC the Phils did it years past in a 20+ innings game with…the Mets? I think. I think it was Mitch Williams and some other guy…one guy pitched an inning, then played LF, then came in an pitched again.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

Watched (and listened) to Boston games since the early 60’s. Seen good teams, fair teams, even awful teams (pre ’67) and the current team just has too many injuries right now to do much.

They could wipe out the system and find some over the hill veterans and try to compete until CC, Ells, Youk and Bailey especially get back, but that is the worst thing they should do.

IMO, they should do just the opposite and look to move a piece or 2 and forget the local media and fans wrath, maybe even that sellout streak. I also think they should go ahead and leave Middlebrooks at the MLB level if Youk is moved quickly, before his trade value is more established as am thinking he is going to be gone anyway before the deadline and also Lavarnway called up and Salty moved as hard to find as even league average catchers are.

It’s time. maybe because have seen this cycle for so many decades I can dmit it where some cannot, but have seen the handwriting on the wall and this team has serious holes that cannot be filled without moving critical pieces of the future, or serious prospects on the farm.. Bogaert, ceccini, Ranaudo.. Guys there is no way who should be sent out for another useless bedard type again, all because of the NE fans/media, who for the most part cannot understand what the team really has.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Even if they are considering trading Youkilis it wont be for a while.  They’ll want to get him back and let him play for a while in hopes that he turns it around and starts hitting because if he does that his value goes way up.  Right now they wouldn’t be able to get anything for him, so trading him would be pointless.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 One of the options have pointed out above and earlier is holding onto Youk, or moving him now. They also have other options and pieces they can move if they go that route and those would mean players waiving 10/5 rights..

David Ortiz.. Not that am saying it would happen, but it could. Enough possible playoff teams in need of a powerful bat remain in play (AL) and even Ortiz could get moved..With his permission of course.

Not saying this will happen, or that Cherrington and Henry would even try it, but I would be fine with 1 season of staying pat for someone (Youk/ortiz) who in likelihood won’t even be with the team next year bringing in prospects that could help a team in the future who is severely crippled in the present.

Phadreus
3 years 3 months ago

Then Yankees could use Ortiz…

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

The Yankees don’t need another DH, they already have about 6 of them.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

Just liking this doesn’t go nearly far enough…

chico65
3 years 3 months ago

Now now John, children could be reading this

Phadreus
3 years 3 months ago

Hamels should be suspended for at least 10 game for hitting a player on purpose and then bragging about it (as if throwing a ball at someone makes one tough???).  It was a shocking display of his maturity, and frankly the next 5 minutes where a shocking display of Harper’s skills.  Going from 1B to 3B on a base hit to left, and then stealing home is pretty impressive and shows insane base running skills for a 19 year old.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 Nolan Ryan used to do that all the time (intentionally hit batters) and even threw the ball behind a batters head, yet almost never was ejected even. For some reason, people though he was “cool” for doing it…

Muggi
3 years 3 months ago

 Good God, they’re grown men. It’s a part of the game.

Hamels didn’t go after his head. If he did, THEN you suspend him.

stl_cards16
3 years 3 months ago

“Good God, they’re grown men.”

That’s funny.  Throwing a ball at someone is NOT a sign at being a grown man.  I know he’s playing a game and it happens all the time.  For some reason guys think they can act like children just because they get paid to play a game.  Throwing a ball at someone because you don’t like them is something my 6 year old would do, not a “grown man”.

3 years 3 months ago

Getting beaned is part of the game. Hamels had no intention of injury. Harper is in the wrong profession if he expects no risk of bodily harm. 

ARod's Ring
3 years 3 months ago

Yes because Davis got destroyed… Oh wait.

BradyAnderson
3 years 3 months ago

You must not have seen Davis’ 83mph splitter then….

Whowonthe2009WorldSeries
3 years 3 months ago

Him not getting destroyed for 2 innings means what exactly?

LazerTown
3 years 3 months ago

What he throws is a mystery to the batters.  You can’t really have a scouting report on him

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 There is no one at Pawtucket better than Bucholz, other than warmed over bodies and retreads besides Matsuzaka. Ohlendorf would be the only SP even capable of making a few starts at the MLB level and a struggling Buch is probably a better gamble.

You take the rest of the pile there.. Duckworth, Mathis, even Germano who has had some luck there and none are worth a wooden nickel combined at the MLB level, much less should have a job as 30+ year old retreads taking up spots at Pawtucket.

Wilson was converted to relief a couple weeks back and is having some trouble now, probably best now to leave him there as it has been the plan all along to use him as a power reliever with his FB in the mid 90’s in that role and a wipeout slider seems best.

Buch is best as the starter and letting him ride it out until he gets over his lost command right now. Just another NE media issue they won’t let drop and easily debunked if those same people would go over who the options are until Matsuzaka is ready.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

I’ve been saying the same thing for a while now, but I’m starting to question it.  They may not be any better of with whoever they replace him with, but if he can go down there and not have to worry about winning and really just work on fixing whatever his problem is, they will be better off in the long run.  So I’m kind of getting on board with sending him down to work on whatever his problem is.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 It still leaves the issue of who to bring up.. I understand he “needs” sending down, but those 1st 3 are worse than worthless (Duckworth, Germano, Mathis) and Boston is better off with a struggling Bucholz than sending any of that trio out to the mound..

before Matsuzaka comes back.. Do they let Miller make a 5IP go at it, even Ohlendorf? I am not that much against Miller, but the soft tossing lefty Ohlendorf makes me shiver at fenway.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

That’s my point though, even if they are worse off with those guys, it might still make sense to do it if it means fixing Buchholz.

Also, they could give Padilla, Miller, or even Aceves a couple of spot starts until Matsuzaka is ready rather than call someone up.

chico65
3 years 3 months ago

Speier had this nugget in his post:

“Buchholz has allowed five or more earned runs in all six of his starts this year, the longest such streak by a Red Sox starter since Red Ruffing endured an eight-game stretch in 1925.”

When you start reaching heights of futility that not even Lackey was able to touch upon last year, there is a major problem.  Drastic times call for drastic measures, even, gulp, running Miller out there while Clay works to regain his control.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 Not Padilla, nor Aceves. I could see Miller and remote chance Ohlendorf.

miller is the best chance as Padilla have seen about enough of already this year.

“it might still make sense to do it if it means fixing Buchholz.”

I have never understood that.. Sending someone down to get fixed. Buch didn’t like it the last time, though he did do better granted and performed well after coming back up. The pitching coaches better at AAA or something, or do pitchers just dominate retreads at the AAA level and come back to the MLB level and (hopefully) take off from there?

Not picking on you or anything, just wondering aloud more or less.

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

Exactly.  Buchholz has been worse to start this year than Lackey was at any stretch last year.  That’s really, really bad.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

Yeah.. Miller is probably the only realistic option we “all” here seem to agree on and don’t get me wrong for those here who are aware of my long fondness for Miller since his days at UNC.. I have always liked him.. Just not a ton of faith in his control holding up as a starter and think his chance of doing Boston the best use is a shut down lefty specialist.

The 1st guy “out of the box” probably would be either Padilla or Ohlendorf (chance wise to help) and THAT is scary…

MaineSox
3 years 3 months ago

In the majors they have to worry about getting guys out and winning games; in AAA the games don’t really matter so much and they can go out and work on certain pitches or certain motions, in real game scenarios, without having to worry about whether the guy gets a hit or not.

Padilla had the one bad outing in New York that really killed his numbers (5 runs in 1/3 of an inning), but other than that he’s actually been pretty much lights out.  I think he is a pretty good candidate for a couple of spot starts.

johnsilver
3 years 3 months ago

 Padilla really was excited about this spring, he just does not look good in games to me for some reason..

Miller am in agreement with the story on WEEI.. For him to work out l/t, keep him as a lefty specialist. His control and his delivery just spells trouble against r/h hitters.

He may indeed be the guy they send out 1st, as could Padilla. Neither is a really viable option IMO.