Angels Could Trade Haren, Santana

8:33pm: Dipoto tells Mike DiGiovanna of the L.A. Times that the team could exercise one or both options, trade one or both, or decline both options. All scenarios are still in play (Twitter link).

5:50pm: The Angels have explored the possibility of trading Dan Haren and Ervin Santana before Wednesday, the date on which option decisions are due, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports. The Angels are not expected to exercise Haren’s $15.5MM option or Santana’s $13MM option.

A rival executive suggested to Heyman that it could be difficult to trade the pitchers given their disappointing performances in 2012. GM Jerry Dipoto wanted to trade Santana last winter, but owner Arte Moreno wanted to keep him, according to Heyman.

Here's my take: many teams are in need of starting pitching, so it’s possible that a club would look at the options and determine that they’re reasonable. They would be especially appealing to teams that are often spurned by free agents.

Also, a team that acquired Haren or Santana and exercised the option could make the hurler a qualifying offer following the 2013 season, assuming a rebound. That could net any acquiring organization a first-round pick in the 2014 draft.

MLBTR's Steve Adams contributed to this post.


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79 Comments on "Angels Could Trade Haren, Santana"


Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
2 years 10 months ago

I could go for trading Haren, it’s an expensive one year deal, but it’s a one year deal. In Haren’s case I would dig a one year deal. I really would.
I wonder what the Angels are looking for, despite not making the playoffs, they do have a pretty good team. So I am curious what the asking price would be!

ogueira
2 years 10 months ago

Angels need starting pitching and a third baseman. Given they’d be trading Haren/Santana to a team in need of starting pitching, it’s not likely the Angels would get any in return. Therefore, third base seems like the most obvious position the Angels would look to shore up with a Haren/Santana deal.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
2 years 10 months ago

you are getting next to nothing for either. They both were bad last year and are huge risks. Expect a low level minor leaguer, maybe a bullpen piece who is a question mark themselves

2 years 10 months ago

Haren wasn’t bad last year. His health history is remarkable, even with the injury last year, and before his injury he was a lower 3 ERA pitcher with above average K/BB. The injury isn’t a particularly troublesome injury. I don’t understand how Haren is a “huge” risk given is track record.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
2 years 10 months ago

Haren missed 5 starts last year because of his back. He had a healthy 2011, but made 35 starts over the previous TWO seasons. He had an ERA over 4, makes 15M and is an injury question mark. Not something you’re gonna get a lot for.

perce p tron
2 years 10 months ago

No, he made 35 starts for the Dbacks and Angels combined in 2010. This was the first year since 2004 that he did not make at least 33 starts.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
2 years 10 months ago

Oh wow, you’re correct. Sorry misread baseball reference when I was in class. Either way, his back has been an issue for years, even if hadn’t missed as much as I thought he had, and still turned in an ERA over 4 with 15m coming his way if dealt

ogueira
2 years 10 months ago

Not sure what you mean Haren’s back “has been an issue for years.” Obviously, he missed time this past year, but I don’t remember hearing anything about him having a bad back in prior years.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
2 years 10 months ago

“In May 2011, Haren had back spasms hit him during a bullpen session between starts. He got eight days off between starts (technically, not a missed start). But that problem did not linger, he said Tuesday. This time, Haren said he tweaked his back during his last start of spring training.”It’s been an ongoing issue all year,” he said.

From Angels team report July 4, 2012. I’d link it but MLBTR doesnt let other sites get linked. I should have said he’s had spasms for the last couple years, 2012 was first time he went onto the DL because of it. I believe I remember him having problems in AZ too, but thats just off memory

ogueira
2 years 10 months ago

Gotcha, thanks for digging that up.

GasLampGuru
2 years 10 months ago

A lower back injury isn’t troublesome for a 33 year old SP? Ok. The back is extremely important in any sport, but it’s nearly impossible to be effective (not to mention maintain velocity) if you can’t properly extend/arch your lower back during your delivery. Not to mention, where lower back injuries exist, chronic leg issues tend to follow.

Aron
2 years 10 months ago

Haren is a risk, although not as big of one as people make it out, as you can probably tell by all the commenters who really want this guy on their team, because of his declining velocity. If you look at his average velocity going back to 2008 there is a steady decline, and accompanied by a rough year this year, GMs extrapolate that this will be an ongoing trend due to that decrease in velocity. I would still love to see this guy in a Jays uniform and don’t think that its necesarily a trend that will continue, but that’s where the risk is and that’s why his trade value is hit big.

dylanp5030
2 years 10 months ago

There are no bad one year deals as many executives will point out.

John
2 years 10 months ago

The Angels need bullpen help.

BVHjays
2 years 10 months ago

Haren makes a lot of sense for the Blue Jays in this type of move (and I’m sure many other teams)

johnsilver
2 years 10 months ago

Interesting thought, but option of being tendered 15m for 2013, Haren being 33YO next year and his down season IMO makes him pretty much non tradeable. Even for a low value prospect.

Had he done a tad better eve, maybe been a couple years younger possibly gotten something,

vtadave
2 years 10 months ago

The idea is that the Angels would pick up the options, eat some money, and get a couple prospects. Ultimately though, I expect both options will be declined.

johnsilver
2 years 10 months ago

Thanks Dave.. Makes total sense there if possible to locate someone willing to pay.. Say 50-70% of the salary of either, then figure that is probably the AAV they would get on the open market at 2, maybe 3 years.. Henceforth.. Doubtful as you said.

They would still have to just about give them away if expected a team to absorb up to 70% of the option at a single year.

Cheers

Lunchbox45
2 years 10 months ago

AA should be allll over this

Angels could use some bullpen depth and the jays have some depth especially if they can retain frasor or lyon or both.

So a reliever for haren, pick up his option.

The Data
2 years 10 months ago

Have to think someone will bid more than a reliever.

Lunchbox45
2 years 10 months ago

not unless money is involved

if they were par value angels would keep them

Twins91
2 years 10 months ago

Twins?

ea19
2 years 10 months ago

they need pitching, but will probably go after cheaper options

2 years 9 months ago

Yep. If Terry “the cheap” Ryan lives up to expectations we’ll be dumpster diving again. See: Ramon Ortiz, Sydney Ponson, Jason Marquis, Rick Reed, Livan Hernandez; all of course signed during the twilight years of their careers.

Ryan hasn’t changed one bit from his previous tenure. The Pohlads have said they feel comfortable pushing the team payroll to 100 million and we are currently 38 million under it and set to be 58 million under by 2014.

However, he has made plenty of comments that they will only pursue economical starting pitchers, “cheap left overs.” Which of course means the starting pitching will AGAIN be deplorable next year.

ea19
2 years 9 months ago

You wouldn’t be ripping on Ryan if you were a true Twins fan. You should be HOSTILE toward Bill Smith!! Ryan usually puts together fundamental teams who tend to overachieve. Yes, we will need starting pitching, but I bet there are a lot of teams who have regretted signing the big name pitchers to BIG TIME contracts over the years. The Twins can’t afford to be one of those teams. We are going to have to count on our young guys. Diamond, Deduno, possibly Kyle Gibson and a free agent like Joe Blanton who may not do too bad in Target Field.

GMwannabe
2 years 10 months ago

Come on Ben.. get Haren!

BoSoXaddict
2 years 10 months ago

Sox will certainly kick the tires, but I’d say there’s next to no chance a deal gets done before Wednesday. We need a #3 or better and with our financial wherewithal, relatively strong farm system and pressure to greatly improve the rotation I have to think the Sox have their eyes on a bigger prize. Maybe Josh Johnson, Peavy, Lincecum, someone like that..

Classic12
2 years 10 months ago

And they could lower the price for the buyer by kicking in a little money as well. It wouldn’t be any worse than if the Angels paid their buyouts.

BK
2 years 10 months ago

Santana and Wells for pine tar. Anyone?

Oriolesfan90
2 years 10 months ago

We will take them.

Shane_McMahon
2 years 10 months ago

Haren yes….no to Santana. We’ve got too many #3,4, 5type pichers as it is.

eedwards027
2 years 10 months ago

Pirates should jump on Haren

tomymogo
2 years 10 months ago

If they eat some salary I think there is a pretty good chance they trade them, but they’d have to eat 7 million at least per player

Gothapotamus
2 years 10 months ago

no chance … they’re only on the hook for each player’s buyout … no trade would involve more than the buyout for each.

2 years 10 months ago

Haren to the Dodgers makes a lot of sense. They can afford it, they needanother starter, and he was great in the NL West.

ogueira
2 years 10 months ago

I’m not so sure the Dodgers can afford it — obviously they’re under new ownership that’s willing to spend, so we’ll see, but they’re already on the hook for a pretty astounding $193 million in 2013.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
2 years 10 months ago

they can afford it, but I dont think its a good use of money. Id rather pay 5M more for Greinke

safari_punch
2 years 10 months ago

How much does a bum cost nowadays? Answer: A lot.

John Donovan
2 years 10 months ago

I’d like to see if the Rockies could get one of them, perhaps for Jordan Pacheco and Edgmer Escalona.

iheartyourfart
2 years 10 months ago

haren will be really sought after if the angels eat some of his money. it makes sense since it will cost them $3.5m to decline his contract and if they make a qualifying offer they could be stuck with $13m+the buyout. if they pick up his option and then ship him out for a low-level prospect they could still get SOMETHING guaranteed in return along with salary relief.

2 years 10 months ago

Either would start opening day for the Royals. I’m not sure that makes me want the Royals to make a move to land one of them, or just simply cry.

$6592481
2 years 10 months ago

While both would definitely be an upgrade over anything they have (unless Guthrie can repeat his post-trade performance), but I think if the Royals are going to trade some of their deep young talent, they should trade them for guys who aren’t coming off bad years. They should only be options if other better talent cannot be found.

BetweenNames
2 years 10 months ago

This might be perfect fit for the Royals depending on how much the Angels are willing to eat. If the Angels are looking for bullpen help the Royals might be able to trade for a starter without having to give one of thier young bats. Royals are loaded with young bullpen arms.

The Data
2 years 10 months ago

Haren won’t cost premium young talent; that’s the appeal. You make a small trade for Haren and a big trade for a bigger name and your rotation is suddenly credible.

Slim_Hurley
2 years 10 months ago

Danny Haren and cash (5-7mm) to the Brewers for 3B Taylor Green and a fringe pitching prospect, perhaps Miguel de los Santos. Thoughts?

2 years 10 months ago

Sounds good, as long as we have someone other than Green backing up Aramis Ramirez at third base. Green won’t play up to his potential unless he gets some actual playing time…his situation is playing out the same as Mat Gamel: bench + sporadic starts = mediocre showing. (*edit* speaking of which, we have Gamel on the bench to back-up Ramirez…lol)

Slim_Hurley
2 years 10 months ago

And also Bianchi is more than capable of playing around the infield so we’re set there

John
2 years 10 months ago

The Angels need bullpen help. How much of Haren’s (or Santana’s) salary would they have to eat in order to get a good bullpen arm in return?

Slim_Hurley
2 years 10 months ago

All of it because bullpen help is the Brewers most pressing need as well. There’s no chance the Brewers would send any major league ready reliever in a trade. The money sent along with Haren would be turned around into two quality middle relievers.

rpoabr
2 years 10 months ago

I thought the writer was smoking crack when i first read this but it actually makes some sense, especially for Haren. Haren at 11.5m for a year deal is not bad at all. If he does bounce back to “normal” he is worth way more than that on a one year deal.

Konrad Verloc
2 years 10 months ago

Yes, the Angels could trade them… but one – who would want them, and two – what on earth would they get back in return?

Lunchbox45
2 years 10 months ago

lots of teams will take haren on a 1 year deal.

regardless of the high dollar amount, you won’t get him for cheaper on the open market.

Konrad Verloc
2 years 10 months ago

Yeah, but what are they gonna give up for him on a 1 year, high-dollar deal?

Lunchbox45
2 years 10 months ago

a reliever?

a utility player.. a B prospect? still better than nothing

The Data
2 years 10 months ago

That’s what the angels are trying to find out. Good on them.

rdillon99
2 years 10 months ago

If the Angels decline Haren’s 2013 option, they must pay him a $3.5M buyout… Even if they trade him him for a C- prospect (and I think that they can get much more) they would save that $3.5M. If the Angels have decided that they’re not going to pick up his option, it makes perfect sense to trade him for whatever they can get.

Ta-Kuan Fuan
2 years 10 months ago

I could see some reasoning for eating a small portion of Santana’s option but why for Haren? He’s a borderline ace and had back issues this past season. His track record speaks for itself. Had he hit the open market like CJ Wilson did last year, you could bet your bottom dollar that he’d be making more than $15.5 mil/yr.

chicothekid
2 years 10 months ago

This might be a little bit out there, but if/when the Mets trade Wright and Dickey, they will have a little money to play with. If the Angels ate some of the salary on one of them, they could easily use the year to restore their value in NY, then the Mets could collect the draft pick when they left because arb would be a given.

As for what they would send the Halos, the Mets have lots of low level minor leaguers and plenty of questionable bullpen arms! It’s a plethora of options to choose from, IF that’s what the Angels are looking for. As for the Mets, they would be able to spend some of that money in 2013, but would actually be buying their chance at a draft pick, which would help them when they actually need it.

patrick
2 years 10 months ago

it’s a given that the mets will be willing to offer the $14-15 million tender that it’d take to get a draft pick for either one next offseason?

chicothekid
2 years 10 months ago

Hence the “chance” at the draft pick. Are they going to be worth offering arb to? If they pitch like RA Dickey, yes. You offer the arb and collect the draft pick when they decline and leave. If they pitch like Oliver Perez, then you lost the gamble. You can’t offer arb, because they would obviously accept.

That’s why the Mets would have to get the Angels to eat some of his money, so it’s a lower risk, and the Mets have to do their homework on both players. Is one going to rebound better than the other? How will they do in the NL East? If they think one of them can rebound under those conditions, then they should take that gamble.

It’s not rocket science people.

Ohhhplease
2 years 10 months ago

Haren would be a nice addition for the Padres, who have some prospects to move if the Angels move some money with them. Byrnes has history with Haren, would love to see him in PETCO

Ivan Verastica
2 years 10 months ago

agreeee, I want haren!

GasLampGuru
2 years 10 months ago

You read my mind. No better way to turn Haren around than to put him in San Diego and get him as far away from the DH as possible.

Beersy
2 years 10 months ago

It would be even better if they could just sign him and not give up any prospects, but either way he would be a heck of a pickup. Haren, Luebke, Volquez, and Richard would be a pretty good top four and Stults, Cashner, Kelly, Wieland or Erlin rounding out the rotation would be sweet.

GasLampGuru
2 years 10 months ago

I think Wieland and Luebke both are expected to miss the first half of the season after surgery. My guess is Cashner winds up back in the pen due to durability issues. I’d be fairly surprised if Kelly didn’t win a spot out of ST. Stults is probably better suited to a long relief/swing role. Looking forward to seeing some of Erlin in ST.

Beersy
2 years 10 months ago

I’ve heard Luebke should be back by mid June at the latest. This may sound silly, but Luebke having to miss a couple of months may be a good thing. If the Padres are in the playoff hunt, they won’t have to shut him down like Strasburg and no I am not comparing him to Strasburg talent wise, but you get my drift right? If the Padres can somehow get a suedo #1, like Haren or Peavy, and if Stults can keep Luebke’s spot in the rotation warm until he gets back, the Padres should be in pretty good shape next year.