Trade Deadline Links: Price Trade, Red Sox, Phillies

It’s been a quiet night for transactions and rumors, so let’s take a look at some audio looking back at the deadline:

  • Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski joined ESPN.com’s Buster Olney on his podcast (audio link) to discuss the David Price trade. Dombrowski’s account is essential listening, but here are some highlights: Though Dombrowski was thinking initially about adding to the pen, internal recommendations led him to reach out to his Rays counterpart, Andrew Friedman, before the All-Star game. The sides chatted, but did not discuss a deal intensively until the evening before the deadline. Tampa had previously raised the name of young shortstop Willy Adames, was interested in some of the Mariners players, and liked Drew Smyly, but the precise package was only put together with the deadline closing in. In Dombrowski’s mind, the deal went from a “slight chance” overnight to happening quickly early in the afternoon. (Interestingly, the Detroit Free-Press tweeted that Dombrowski was notably absent from his usual seat just before the game; as it turns out, Dombrowski tells Olney that the key phone conversations were in fact taking place at that time.)
  • Dombrowski had high praise for Friedman, who he described as direct and thorough. As for the idea that the haul was light for Price, Dombrowski explained that he had faced similar reactions after the Doug Fister deal, and feels that often such reactions come from a lack of information. In particular, he expressed that other clubs may not have a full read on Adames, who he calls a potential future All-Star.
  • In his podcast today (audio link), Jonah Keri of Grantland spoke with Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports about the trade deadline and what it means the rest of the way. Rosenthal wonders whether the Red Sox have created a sort of new model for sellers by pursuing big league pieces instead of unproven youngsters. Of course, Boston also created a much-discussed “model” for free-agent spending before the club’s 2013 World Series run, when it added a series of mid-tier veterans who seemed to gel together in Fenway. Keri also chats with Dan Okrent, discussing his excellent (and highly-recommended) book, Nine Innings, which delivers an incredible portrait of the workings of a ballclub from the front office to the field.
  • Former MLB GM Jim Duquette shared his own thoughts on the deadline — in particular, regarding the Phillies — on The Jayson Stark Show of 97.5 The Fanatic (audio link). Duquette said he thought the club “missed an opportunity” by standing pat. He also said it was surprising to hear GM Ruben Amaro Jr. say that his peers were not sufficiently aggressive in pursuing Philadelphia’s players, with Stark adding that other general managers have indicated to him that they were less than pleased with the commentary.


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64 Comments on "Trade Deadline Links: Price Trade, Red Sox, Phillies"


Jaysfan1994
1 year 25 days ago

Good job Ruben, if you haven’t already burned the bridge with other teams with your outrageous demands, you’re surely on pace to do it when you start telling the media that you expect the world to take your side and comprehend your madness.

Good look in your future endeavors, I’m sure I’ll be seeing you at my local Walmart as the greeter in 5 months.

timpa
1 year 25 days ago

If I walked into a Walmart and saw RAJ greeting people I’d do the Grandpa Simpson turn and exit.

Jeff Miller
1 year 25 days ago

Gotta wonder if those comments will force David Montgomery and ownership to make a change after the season. He gave Ruben the proverbial stamp of approval a month or so ago, but this team isn’t moving in a positive direction and Ruben is clearly to blame. Montgomery might just be the money guy and public face of a very private ownership group, but the product Ruben has put on the field is causing the team to lose money at the gate, which Monty has said is a huge concern going forward.

Would be great if both are out after 2014 and the bring in a whole new front office. New player development and scouting departments, new minor league instructors and significantly improve their advanced metrics department, if you can really call 5 people an advanced metrics department.

JacksTigers
1 year 25 days ago

Those marked down prices very well could drive him insane.

Karkat
1 year 25 days ago

Not to open my own team up to more criticism, but is it fair to say the Sox truly “created a model” when that model’s success was immediately followed by a last-place nosedive?

Dynasty22
1 year 25 days ago

Remains to be seen. A model is something that needs to be followed. Something like Moneyball. I don’t recall any team going on a spree for mid-tier free agents this previous offseason so we don’t know how front offices feel about it. I suppose the future will tell. But, this whole “Red Sox created a model” thing is too premature.

1 year 25 days ago

There’s also the problem that this “model” can’t really be followed. The Sox were able to sign so many mid tier free agents because they had flexibility, but they’re also a highly attractive FA destination. I doubt any other last place team would be able to sign all those guys to identical deals.

Stonehands
1 year 25 days ago

At the time the Sox had a horrible baseball reputation.. With the Chicken and beer fiasco, losing 90+ games and Bobby V at the helm, we had to overpay Victorino in years, Dempster in cash, and originally Napoli in cash until they got a loophole on him

Dynasty22
1 year 25 days ago

Victorino and Dempster rejected slightly bigger contracts from the Indians and Royals respectively to sign with the Red Sox. I’m not sure how you find Napoli an overpay in cash. It was the same annual value but instead of 3 years, it was 1. Not to mention, though Napoli had a couple of subpar years in batting average before he signed, he always displayed power and on base skills. That is worth 13 million dollars. Those aren’t moves aren’t overpays. All the Red Sox did was get those guys at market value and it payed dividends in 2013.

jb226
1 year 25 days ago

I’d say they didn’t create a model is because their circumstances were kind of unique. Between Ross, Gomes, Victorino, Uehara, Dempster and Drew, they added six guys to their 25 man roster including 3 to their starting 9. (Seven and four if you want to count re-signing Ortiz.) It’s tough to find a team that both needs changes at that many positions and has the flexibility to make them. If they had added only one or two of those kind of player we wouldn’t even be considering whether there is some overarching lesson to learn.

That lesser form actually happens quite a bit, especially on mid-market teams who can’t afford the huge splash. The impressive thing about Boston’s 2013 offseason was the scale, not the strategy itself.

Tim Johnson
1 year 25 days ago

I never thought that Boston was creating a model since this seemed to be the exact same thing that the Phillies did in 1993. Bring together a bunch of guys and get career years out of them and then completely fall apart the next year. Both teams were seen as a cast of characters and the only difference was the fact that Boston was able to actually win the World Series. It really doesn’t allow for any sustained success, so I don’t see other teams wanting to replicate it on a regular basis.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
1 year 25 days ago

I’ve read a lot of your posts over the last week and I think we have some major disagreements about the Sox trades at the deadlines. I’m hoping for a good exchange of thoughts for the next few months. I also think we can both agree that no model was made by the Red Sox trades.

The Red Sox are in a unique position to rebuild a team quickly with money and a strong farm to use in trades or promotions) to get back on a winning franchise. Not every team will have both resources to follow the same model.

Karkat
1 year 25 days ago

I had a very emotional reaction to the Lester trade, and I’ll admit it did put me in a foul mood most of the day (my all-day meeting didn’t help either). That said, I still feel like the returns could’ve been better, especially since I’m not a believer in Craig (someone pointed out his concerningly declining ISO). I’m willing to re-evaluate this offseason based on a variety of factors.

Regardless, I always enjoy debating with you, especially as we’re both on the same side at the end of the day 😀

centerfield_ballhawk
1 year 25 days ago

The Doug Fister return is still extremely light, regardless of what Dave Dombrowski would like you to believe.

Timothy Rogan
1 year 25 days ago

Hey just a heads up, Okrent’s “Nine Innings” is about a single game, not a season. It’s the “Ulysses” of baseball books.

Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
1 year 25 days ago

Hey, I was talking to an associate yesterday about the Phillies and the associate said there’s better team in Philadelphia and they have a ‘girl’ as their ace.
I believe him, I think the Taney Dragons could not only beat the Phillies!
They have a very good chance in winning the Little League World Series.
Quite honestly from reading about them I am surprised they aren’t getting more attention then the Phillies! They are the better team! =P

dylanp5030
1 year 25 days ago

Okay.

Mike1L
1 year 25 days ago

The Red Sox are among the best FO around, but they had a lot of things go perfectly last year, and it’s always a mistake to perceive good fortune as genius. Plenty of career years in 2013, plenty of over-production from solid players who just put everything together. That’s very hard to duplicate.

dc21892
1 year 25 days ago

Small market teams can’t afford to do what Boston did at the deadline, so it’ll really only work for big market clubs.

1 year 25 days ago

Willy Adames a future All-Star? So say we all!

1 year 25 days ago

Something is up with him. Just about every club that was buying or selling scouted him and asked for him.

1 year 24 days ago

I was making a (bad) Battlestar Galactica joke. The name of the captain/admiral in that show is William Adama. And the way they say “amen” is “so say we all.” Hence my joke (now utterly ruined).

Jeff Miller
1 year 25 days ago

Montgomery is the team president and managing partner with a small ownership stake. He can be voted out by the rest of the ownership group if they so choose.

No one will argue that Amaro hasn’t brought in talent, though it’s been 3 years since he’s made a significant trade to bring in talent. Then he turned around a year later and moved Pence at 30 cents on the dollar just to avoid a $750k luxury tax fee, probably less. It’s all the bad contracts he’s given out. It’s the refusal to admit what he’s built isn’t good. It’s the refusal see this team for what it is and not using their vast resources to improve the team. Now he’s blaming the league’s 29 other GM’s for his failure to properly evaluate and valuate players to make a trade.

The Phillies just starting using advanced metrics to evaluate players, more than a decade after many teams started employing those tactics. They’re so far behind the rest of the league in just about every facet and they don’t even realize it. That’s why they need to make wholesale changes. They need a new team president, new GM, new scouting department, new player development people, new minor league instructors, more Latin America scouts, better advanced metrics department, etc. It’s the only way they’ll get back to competitive baseball before 2020.

Jaysfan1994
1 year 25 days ago

He has a history of wanting the moon for one of his players despite the player he’s shopping usually aging far too long beyond their peak value and having a ridiculous price-tag with a limited no-trade clause. All of those things hurt one’s value and give a player such as Cliff Lee, as an example a more limited market then he already has.

If you’re saying I don’t know what Ruben’s asked for, clearly you haven’t been on this website long because it’s constantly leaked what he’s asking for in trades and it’s likely because people think his asking prices are ridiculous.

Jaysfan1994
1 year 25 days ago

Hi Ruben, how have you been? Still regretting that Ryan Howard extension? He was due to become a free agent at the end of the 2012 season yet you extended him during the start of the 2010 season for what reason? His aging alone from 30 to 32 would’ve made his value go down. You don’t resign players when their value is at an all time high when you don’t have to resign that player. That’s like resigning Chris Davis to a long term deal after his 54 homerun season. I’m sure the Orioles are glad they didn’t do that when the man had another season to play for them and likely regress in value.

Also what’s the point of giving a limited no-trade clause to all of your players? These guys are bound to sign with the Phillies off of the annual value of the contract alone. Why would you want to limit a market for a player who you might one day want to trade?

Jeff Miller
1 year 25 days ago

You should google “Phillies Phantom Five” and read the Philly Mag article. It gives a breakdown of who the ownership group is and what Montgomery’s job, like Bill Giles before him, really is. Montgomery has very little ownership stake and can be removed at any time the ownership group feels like doing so. But they won’t, because that’s not how they operate.

Apologies for the double post. Got modded for some reason and never know if a post will go through when that happens.

Jeff Miller
1 year 25 days ago

You should search Phillies Phantom Five and read the Philly Mag article. It gives a breakdown of who the ownership group is and what Montgomery’s job, like Bill Giles before him, really is. Montgomery has very little ownership stake and can be removed at any time the ownership group feels like doing so. But they won’t, because that’s not how they operate.

TheRealRyan
1 year 25 days ago

It really was a foolish move. It’s like making a 31 yo, who is two years away from FA, the highest paid player in the game for his age 33-40 seasons even though he was coming off of a career year as a 30 year old.

I wonder how long before Tiger fans view Cabrera’s contract in the same light as Phillie fans view Howard’s today.

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

I never said anything about Montgomery selling his shares or losing his ownership stake. No idea where you got that from. All I’ve said is that the ownership group can vote him out as team president and managing partner if they choose to. If the Phillies want prolonged success in the largest single team market they need to change how they operate.

Did you read the Phantom Five article? If you haven’t, you should. The Phillies don’t operate like a normal sports franchise. There’s virtually no accountability and no repercussions for failing to do your job. When Ruben is out (either fired or when his contract expires after ’15) he’ll be brought back in an advisory role of some sort.

newphillyphan
1 year 24 days ago

Jeff, don’t waste your time arguing with lisainnj.. He/she posts on Phillies forum too and has nothing but praises for Amaro and Phillies front office.. Over last few years, I have yet to see a single post from him/her criticizing anything that Amaro does. As they say ‘you can wake up a person who is really sleeping, but you can’t wake up someone who is pretending to be asleep’. Everybody around baseball knows what ridiculous contracts Amaro has written over the years and converted Phillies into some sort of MLB Nursing Home. Halladay couldn’t complete his contract here nor will Lee. Those vets who might manage to avoid DL have ridiculous dollars, options and no-trade clauses included their contracts that make them virtually immovable. He has thrown money at aging pitchers like a drunken sailor while still not being able to find true replacements for Werth and Victorino. Of course, Amaro and Lisainnj would rather blame other GMs and everybody else in baseball – for not being ‘aggressive’ (read ‘stupid’) enough to pick up these contracts – for this mess rather than looking themselves up in the mirror.

Jaysfan1994
1 year 24 days ago

That GM was fired and replaced by one that immediately traded him within his first year in charge, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. AA traded him while he still had value and didn’t wait far beyond his expiry date to make that move.

He also didn’t have to eat any of his contract besides the first year meaning the Angels ate something like 100M for a guy coming off a 32 homerun season. Vernon’s numbers immediately declined like so many power hitters not on steroids in the AL West do and Vernon’s career was over before that contact ever ended. Can you say RAJ ever did something like that?

Jeff Miller
1 year 24 days ago

By out I meant out of their current jobs. Ruben no longer the GM and Montgomery no longer team president and managing partner.