Farhan Zaidi was hired as the Giants’ president of baseball operations from the archrival Dodgers in November 2018. The club has largely eschewed headline-grabbing moves since, but the front office has been as active as any on the waiver wire. That emphasis on low-cost additions to the margins of the roster has extended to the trade market. It’s still too early to judge Zaidi’s overall body of work, but some of the lesser-heralded names have produced strong early returns.
Equally as noteworthy as the deals Zaidi has made are the ones he hasn’t. The club didn’t move impending free agents Madison Bumgarner or Will Smith at last summer’s deadline. In Zaidi’s defense, the club sat at 55-53 last July 31, just two games back of the second NL Wild Card (and eventual World Series champion) Nationals. They surely also considered the draft compensation they were in line to receive this winter if each signed elsewhere as qualified free agents (as both ultimately did). Yet the Giants never looked especially likely to make a deep playoff run (Fangraphs gave them just a 5.9% shot of reaching the postseason at the time). There was certainly a case to be made they should’ve acted as a decisive seller. Instead, they pursued something of a middle-ground, trading away a few notable relievers while also making further marginal acquisitions.
With that second-guessing out of the way, we’ll turn to the moves Zaidi’s front office has struck since he took charge in SF (excluding the most minor transactions).
2018-19 Offseason
- Acquired RHP Trevor Gott from Nationals for cash considerations
- Acquired INF/OF Connor Joe from Reds for RHP Jordan Johnson and cash considerations
- Acquired OF Mike Yastrzemski from Orioles for RHP Tyler Herb
- Acquired LHP Williams Jerez from Angels for RHP Chris Stratton
2019 Season
- Acquired RHP Jesus Ozoria from Mariners for C Tom Murphy
- Acquired OF Kevin Pillar from Blue Jays for RHP Derek Law, INF/OF Alen Hanson and RHP Juan De Paula
- Acquired 1B/OF Tyler Austin from Twins for OF Malique Ziegler
- Acquired OF Alex Dickerson from Padres for RHP Franklin Van Gurp
- Acquired RHP Prelander Berroa, OF Jaylin Davis and RHP Kai-Wei Teng from Twins for RHP Sam Dyson
- Acquired IF/OF Mauircio Dubon from Brewers for LHP Drew Pomeranz and RHP Ray Black
- Acquired RHP Tristan Beck and RHP Dan Winkler from Braves for RHP Mark Melancon
- Acquired 2B Scooter Gennett from Reds for cash considerations
- Acquired OF Joe McCarthy from Rays for LHP Jacob Lopez
2019-20 Offseason
- Acquired IF Will Wilson and INF Zack Cozart (released thereafter) from Angels for LHP Garrett Williams
How would you grade Zaidi’s first year-plus on the trade market? (Poll link for app users).
Curious to look back on additional GMs and their trade histories?
We’ve already polled on Diamondbacks GM Mike Hazen, recently fired Astros president Jeff Luhnow, Brewers president of baseball ops David Stearns, Angels GM Billy Eppler, Rockies GM Jeff Bridich, Tigers GM Al Avila, Braves GM Alex Anthopoulos, Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins, Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto, Phillies GM Matt Klentak, Padres GM A.J. Preller, Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman, Rays GM Erik Neander, ex-Red Sox front office leader Dave Dombrowski, Mets GM Brodie Van Wagenen, Reds GM Dick Williams, Orioles GM Mike Elias and former Diamondbacks GM Dave Stewart.
Connor Joe for life
shut up
Rude
The Giants. Lol
Really bad start to his tenure, getting nothing for Bumgarner and Will Smith is going to hurt them for a while.
The comp picks they will get for them are decent returns. And not making bad moves like trading for Longo and giving up Bryan Reynolds for McCutchen is progress from what their previous shotcaller.
Eh it’s the Justin Upton thing all over again.
Sure Padres got a comp pick but Michael Fulmer was on the table. Would of been a great trade piece, but preller would of held on to him too long, be in the situation Detroit is now, and then been criticized by people currently saying he should of traded for Fulmer; theyd be complaining preller held on to Fulmer too long like Ross and Cashner. Either way they’d be unhappy and just looking to complain.
Without knowing what was offered for bumgarner and Smith it’s hard to say the comp pick was the right move. I’d like to think 2-4 prospects/players would of been better than a pick.
Sure but if the Padres took Carter Kieboom, Will Smith, Dylan Carlson or Dakota Hudson with the pick instead of Lauer then no one would care they passed on Fulmer
It’s easy to look back and say they should of traded for Fulmer and should of traded him before he got injured.
It’s easy to look back and say they should of drafted these guys instead.
Hindsight isn’t a superpower.
Revisionist history. Michael Fulmer was more valuable at the 2015 trade deadline than that comp pick. I’d even say he is now. Tommy John surgery isn’t the end of the world and he is still under control through 2022.
And the comp pick Pomeranz would have gotten and the 1st would be more valuable than Anderson Espinoza had the Padres kept Pomeranz and he hit free agency putting up decent numbers with the Padres.
You can spin if however you want and make up any scenario to fit your opinions.
Reality is. Fulmer has never made 30 starts in a season. Has never pitched more than 165 innings. And after a sub par 2018 dealing with a knee issue that required a 3rd surgery on his meniscus is now coming off Tommy John surgery. His value isn’t what it once was.
Hopefully he recovers fully. But the knee could be a lingering issue that prevents him from making starts and/or affects his performance.
1. Pomeranz would have taken the QO in a heartbeat.
2. Espinoza was more valuable than a QO comp pick when he was traded. As was Fulmer.
We’re talking about alternative history.
Padres keep Pomeranz and he pitches like an ace until free agency. Pomeranz gets a madison bumgarner/ Patrick Corbin deal from some team, leaves the Padres, Padres get a QO pick. Espinoza still gets tommy John surgeries, pick is worth more than Espinoza.
Well look at that. The QO pick is more valuable than Espinoza. Phew glad Padres got that pick.
More alternative history. Padres trade upton for Fulmer. Fulmer still gets knee surgeries and Tommy John surgery. Padres lose 2019 and 2020 team control. Only have 2 years left for Fulmer 2021 and 2022. Fulmer pitching for Padres in 2016 and 2018 costs them Gore in 2017 and Abrams in 2019 cause they won more games and pushed their draft slot down. Padres also don’t trade james shields for fernado Tatis jr, instead they keep shields around as mentor for Fulmer after trading Pomeranz and Cashner.
Well trading for Fulmer cost the Padres Gore Abrams and Tatis Jr. Dang it.
Lmao they would have traded Shields for Tatis Jr no matter what. If the young pitchers the Padres had in OTL didn’t need Shields as a mentor, neither would Fulmer.
Also in your scenario, first you say they keep Pomeranz until he becomes a FA after 2018 and QO him. Then you say they trade him and Cashner in 2016 and keep Shields as a mentor for Fulmer. Which one is it?
agreed @ Notorious
Not trading Bum and Smith came from top managemnt not him. Giants were worried about selling tickets and they actually thought they could contend.
Also we have no idea what was offered. If it was next to nothing then the comp pick and extra butts in the seat would be a higher return.
1. Wouldn’t those “extra butts in the seats” just be gone now that Bumgarner is gone?
I think that is the larger thing, if what was offered was not horribly better than a comp pick then moving doesn’t make too much sense- I mean would people have a better view of Farhan if he gave up Bumgarner for a couple of lottery tickets? At that rate it is smarter to control your own fate with a comp pick
Yes. I agree. I don’t think Zaidi was being offered enough for Bumgarner and Smith, and the Giants management felt that the company picks would outweigh the value of the trade they were being offered. Also, not trading Bum could have been a more personal thing. I think that Bochy wanted to finish out the season with the old WS team intact, especially Bum and Buster, and ownership agreed to that and were happy to take the company picks, so they could pick who they wanted, and maybe get a draft steal.
@giantsforlife what’s more important: Nostalgia and sentimentality or the team’s long-term outlook?
@Wolf Chan guarantee someone would have given up at least a top 100 prospect for each of them.
@jimthegoat: How do you know? Smith, you might recall, had had several stumbles right before the deadline. And the consensus around MLB at last year’s deadline was that there were better guys than Bum to be had at the deadline.
Zaidi is not stupid. If the offer is crap, you hold. It was a rational calculus. He weighed where the team was in the hunt at that time relative to what he was offered. I “guarantee” you that if he was offered a top 100 prostpct he would have taken it.
Because shutdown lefty relievers and proven postseason workhorses have value.
If Zaidi couldn’t deal Will Smith before the 2019 season then the Giants might as well fire him. Dealing him at the 2018 deadline or after the 2018 season “should” bring in a better return than the draft pick in 2020.
As said months ago, Zaidi is taking his time to prolong his stay as a mediocre executive. He wants to be in San Fran for 8 years rather than 6. He’s taking his sweet time to tear down.
The point wasn’t to deal him in the 2018 season. It was whether or not it made sense, given the offers, to deal him in 2019. It did not, so he stayed.
As for Zaidi stretching out the rebuild to stay in SF longer. Pul-eese. That shows how clueless you are.
I think you are absolutely correct, which says quite alot about the Giants management. I suspect Farhan did want to move both players and he was overruled by senior executives/ownership.
Giants now have a few nice pieces on the farm; but, its gonna take 3-5 years before a solid core can be established that will allow them to be truly competitive. It will be interesting to see who gets impatient first and calls for Zaidi’s head: restless fans or ownership.
IMO, you can only go what trades a GM makes (or doesn’t make). I can’t you how many GMs are defended by their fans because ‘ownership forced all the bad moves’. Every GM gets an ‘A’ if that’s the case. The GM has to own all the moves.
Where is this “he was overruled by ownership” stuff coming from? More likely, the offers he received were garbage and not worth it relative to the gamble of competing and the comp draft picks. He made a rational decision. Hindsight is 20/20 now, but at the time, his decision made perfect sense.
And as a new GM, you want teams to know that if they offer you crap, you are not open for business.
“And as a new GM, you want teams to know that if they offer you crap, you are not open for business.”
Jesus, not this tired argument again.
It’s not a tired argument, it’s how you horsetrade. If you offer me something good for what I have, I’ll gladly talk turkey. Offer me crap for what I have, I tell you to take a hike.
But what if you are about to lose what you have for absolutely nothing and no one is offering more than I am?
jim, the comp picks and holding on to these guys for the remainder of the season isn’t “absolutely nothing”. Again, in hindsight, yeah, it would have been nice to have gotten more, but I get why the guy held his cards.
They are a lot closer than 3-5 years, as far as a new core goes you have Bart,Ramos, hjelle that look like they are a year or less out and contracts all expire in the next 2 years for the vets Sotheby’s team you are looking at now will likely not have a lot in common with the one even 2 years from now- and you are talking about a team that can spend so combine the young guys with a few contracts and I would expect something to come together closer to 2 years from now
arc89:
Top management? Zaidi is top management. He is the president of baseball ops. Sabean does not have veto power over Zaidi, and ownership has stated numerous times that Zaidi has autonomy over trades, signings, claims, etc.
The more logical explanation is that the returns for Bum and Smith were not more than marginally better than the comp picks.
From end of June to almost end of July, the Giants won 18 out of 22 games. That’s 18-4, with series wins over St. Louis, S.D. Milwaukee, & the Cubs at that time. Giants were hottest team in baseball during July, & 2 games back of wild card. And you wanted Farhan to deal their 2 best pitchers at that point. SF got hot, & Farhan let em see if it would last. Every SF fan would have been irate at that point if Bum & Smith were dealt. Now you have hindsight & say, “Zaidi should’ve dealt Bum & Smith back then.” B.S. It backfired but it was the right thing to do at the time.
Just love how you apparently know nothing about the game from strategic point of view. You gloss over names and incidentals a profoundly claim we got nothing! Apparently you forgot or did not realize that we have at least one 2nd round possibly 2 for their F/A signings. Making a comparison to the hated Dodgers, and the always cash strapped A’s does have its upside though. The idea of stockpiling talent like both those teams do has brought results. The difference between us and them is simple. The Dodgers are in it now because after stockpiling they have the cash to say yay or nay as they make decisions to sign extensions or trade for even more talent. The A’s are always cash strapped and always looking for the next best thing, hence when their players become arbitration eligible they get creative and typically move those players for new ones under longer control. Now out of those two teams I just mentioned who do you think the Giants more closely align with in their ability to develop players for the long term. The Dodgers! Why? When your ranked the 5th most valuable team in all of baseball with new revenue stream coming online in addition to what you already have then you can pick and choose and hoard all the talent you want in the coming years. It’s gonna happen, all one has to do is watch it all unfold like a chess match.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Obviously, knowing what we know now, Bum & Smith should have been moved. But right before the deadline SF was on a tear. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there was a streak where SF won 20 out of 24 games, Alex Dickerson was en fuego & Giants were 2 or 3 games out of a wildcard. SF had done more with less before (see 2010, 2012, & 2014 Giants). If Farhan would’ve dealt them in middle of that, he’d of been sent to the guillotine. Farhan has done a nice job setting SF up for a run in 2021 & beyond. We all are so smart when we have the luxury of hindsight with us.
I think just getting the Braves to take all of Melancon’s money was worthy of an A.
Amen to that
Ditto
Amen brother
Its very odd to see a lot of Braves fans being thrilled to have MM on the books for 19 mill this year-
We got cashman coming?
I remember thinking last summer that Zaidi should trade MadBum and Smith. No one was really giving the Giants a chance at the playoffs. Unfortunately for them, they had a nice winning streak right before the trade deadline.
They thought they could catch lightening in a bottle and MadBum is a San Francisco icon and WS hero so I understand not trading him. However, at the very least, Smith should have been traded. He had some value.
Zaidi is well respected throughout the game so it’s probably fair to give him the benefit of the doubt this early in his tenure.
He had to trade either both of Bumgarner and Smith or neither of Bumgarner and Smith. Not just Smith (or just Bumgarner for that matter).
The typical Giants fan is delusional
1) This guy literally got someone to take Melancon’s entire horrendous contract plus got prospects back
2) Turned Drew Pomeranz into Dubon
3) Got Dickerson and Yaz for pretty much free
4) Went from one of the worst farm systems to top 10
5) Got a top 15 prospect in last years draft for cash
Do people realize how horrendously bad the Giants situation was when he took over?
They are 2-3 yrs away from being a really good club
Wait, Alex Dickerson still plays? Pirates fan here. I didn’t even know he was still around.
The poor guy looks like he’s made of glass, but he did have some really bright flashes in the run up to the deadline last year.
He was a good chance for the Giants to take on the cheap, kind of like Pomeranz was. And Pomeranz sucked until they put him in the pen. Dickerson is the kind of guy you hope will one day click and put things together.
Some of us realize it, and are thankful Farhan is calling the shots. Now if he can get something, even salary relief, for Belt/Shark/Cueto/Longo that would be remarkable. Crawford is a sunk cost.
The thing about all those vets is that they’re all only under contract for another year or two (Longo being the exception, but the best shot at being an everyday league average player). The Giants aren’t competing in that time anyways, so might as well let them play or relegate them to part-time duties as younger guys come up and show enough to be worthy replacements.
Their situation is still horrendous, they owe tons of money to several players they will get very little production from or are total question marks (Posey, Cueto, Longoria, Belt and Crawford) which is why moving Bumgarner and Smith was so important on a roster with so many sunk costs.
NotoriousVC is correct. The Giants are still in far worse shape than management is willing to admit. They are realistically at least 2 years away from fielding a .500 team. Subsequently, 3-5 years away from a legit playoff contending roster
And Giants fans….That’s a whole story. A low information, overly sensitive fanbase obsessed with nostalgia and hero worship of it’s players, they don’t like data or facts. The franchise is set to embark on it’s 4th consecutive below .500 season, yet Giants fans still speak of their team in ‘3 in 5’ World Championship tones. it’s bizarre
But ultimately, that’s just San Francisco.Garlic fries, panda hats , Birkenstocks and too many cats in the house
Righty – that’s my new favorite comment ever
You guys can have each other.
It’s bizarre Giant fans celebrate 3 WS in 5 years? Um, okay. Yes, the last few years they’ve struggled, but even struggling they’re still having better record’s than the Padres. SF fans don’t understand facts? Here’s a fact. SF has more WS titles in last 10 years than ur team has in last 50. At least SF has nostalgia to celebrate. What do the Dodgers have to celebrate? 29 division titles in a row & still no titles. Great. Can u say Buffalo Bills
I’m a Yankee fan. My team has more titles then any other team in the history of the game.
That being said, we don’t live in the past. Giants fans are annoying. Yes, you won 3 WS championships over a 5 year period. But that period ended a half a decade ago. That is a long time in professional sports.
I mean, A half a decade ago the San Antonio Spurs were the NBA champions. Lol
And as far as nostalgia and hero worshipping, no team has more nostalgia or hero’s than the New York Yankees. And as fans we value that. But we don’t live in it or view our current team through the Lens of what occurred 5 or 10 years ago. That is just asinine and baseball stupid
I get what you’re saying, & you’re right, we shouldn’t live in the past. That said, of course we’re going to milk our W.S. a half decade ago, because our last 4 years have sucked. You’re correct that we’ve had nothing to celebrate the last few years, but I don’t think SF is as far away as you think. Yes, we’ll suck this year. But after 2021 all our senior cits will be off our books. Bart & Ramos will be ready & remember this name…Marco Luciano. He still may be a year away at that point, but dude will be a super star. And SF will have a ton of money to spend. Dubon & Yaz will be in prime too. 2021 SF will be around .500, but 2022 they will be very competitive. I guess what I’m saying is…you got 2 more years of SF fan living in the past. Hey, you gotta stick with your team through the good & bad.
How many Giants fans do you actually know? Every single Giants fan I know talks exclusively about how much the team we support sucks, not 3 in 5.
This Giants fan thinks farhan is a wizard for the Melancon and Pomeranz deals. The team is still years from relevance, but I’m glad it’s Zaidi at the wheel.
He IS a wizard for those deals, haha!
They are a few years from relevance, yes, but at least they are moving in the right direction. They’ll have a nice farm and $$$ to spend by 2022.
why do you assume that giants fans don’t realize this already?
I really like what he’s done. Dubon was a good pickup, the Scooter upside swing made sense, Pillar made sense, and he gave them a chance to compete with MadBum and Smith even if they weren’t really considered and recouped draft picks. I think the drop off between prospect returns and the draft picks is worth retaining a chance to compete even if it’s small, an admirable move in this day and age.
Dubon? kid has only 30 games under his belt at the big league level, yet Giants fans have already begun their bizarre Hunter Pence , Duffy , religious hero worship nonsense. Geez
I’m not even a Giants fan, knew him when he was coming up through AA with the Red Sox. I’m not telling you he’s an HOFer but he’ll be a starting caliber controllable 2nd basemen
He’s a nice successor to Joe Panik, who had a few good years but fell on hard times. And there was nothing sentimental or nostalgic about the way Panik was given the boot when he ceased to be an asset.
@Connorsoxfan: He’s definitely moving us in the right direction much quicker than I thought was possible. You don’t get superstars for nothing, but he’s gotten us some good pieces for very little. I see 2020 as the last year where bad contracts are a major concern. As of now, we would enter the offseason moving into ’21 with $100M on the books. IMO a cash rich team like SF should have no problem spending what is necessary to field a very competitive team with that much flexibility. Big question being, which guys will take a step forward between now and then….which is why the potential of not playing this year is unfortunate.
The trade for maricio dubon and yaz was good
Jaylin Davis and will Wilson could turn out well too, we’ll just have to see how it works out in the end.
Should have traded Bumgarner and Smith that was a dereliction of duty
I felt the same way in June/July and even into August. But multiple sources including interviews with Zaidi himself were very clear. The returns offered for both players were very low, if they could have gotten a Clint Frazier type MLB or near MLB ready talent they would have made the move. I think Dubon was the best they were being offered and they managed to swing that while keeping a half season of both Bumgarner and Smith. As a life long Giants fan I am actually glad to see a front office not making moves just for the sake of making moves. The Carlos Beltran and Matt Moore trades and many like them are examples how the front office of the past has handicapped the future for the sake of appeasing the bandwagon portion of the fan base that came with 3 WS in 5 years. In the long run those fans will come and go regardless of what is done at the trade deadline so I prefer to have the front office make moves that make long term sense not short term headlines.
To clarify Duffy and lucious fox both turned out to not be future pieces but I think they could have gotten more than they got from Moore, and that is why I saw it as a bust at the time.
The Beltran trade was definitely a win-now move, but I don’t know if I’d call it shortsighted, nor would I say it really set them back long-term (unless you assume a different career path or trade destination for Wheeler, and/or him being moved for impactful prospects in 2018 or 2019 by the Giants).
The Giants certainly made some shortsighted moves in the last decade (especially following the last WS win) but I wouldn’t put Beltran in that group.
I agree. The Beltran trade being bad for the giants is actually made up crap by sad pathetic fans because it didn’t turn into another championship. Beltran went on to have a few good seasons after, but giants fans got angry his few months with the team weren’t Ruthian.
Just shows how sensitive the FO was to fan complaining and the knee jerk reaction was to not keep Beltran for at least a couple more seasons.
I am not saying Beltran wasn’t good, he had a great September, the problem was despite the record that team was on a downward projectors since the posey injury. It was clear to me at the time and hindsight has proven it was a lost season. Making a desperate move to save a lost season when they were already set to be back in contention the next season seemed a horrible move to me at the time. We had plenty of pitching at the major league level but if some one got hurt especially in a Dave Dravecky career ending way there was no depth, and with Lincium’s size thy was always a fear. Turns out in hindsight wheeler would not have been that solution, but I felt then and still feel now that the front office should not have traded away they’re top pitching prospect for a rental that wants going to put them in the post season. And I did not think Beltran was enough to overcome the anemic offenses the giants were sending out every day. I also didn’t like the Pence trade though so what do I know.
Yeah agree on Beltran, if he would have performed in august as well as he did in September after the trade they could very well have repeated but you’re never guaranteed anything in this game. I feel like the moves that made no sense were the Byrd, leake trades that really weren’t needed and added nothing
That’s a great one, I forgot about leake, I think I blocked it from memory as I really didn’t like that one, I liked Duvall a lot and was not sold on Leake being what he was hyped as, watching analytics over in Oakland and the giants hold on to stubborn ways makes me think this is how the St. Louis browns fans must have felt.
The problem with the Beltran trade was that the FO did nothing to retain him in the offseason. To this day, I have no idea what the Giants were thinking trading away Wheeler if they weren’t going to try to resign Beltran.
My impression was that beltran never had any intention of staying long term
It’s still too early to judge his effectiveness, but he seems to be heading in the right direction. He inherited a very difficult situation (too many overpaid, under-performing veterans), so he hasn’t had the right pieces to make substantial moves. He probably should have moved at least one of Mad-Bum or Smith at the deadline last year but I can respect their optimism given where they were in the standings at that time. He’s building a decent farm system and some of these albatross deals will coming off the books in the next couple of years so we should have a better picture of his effectiveness after the 2021 season is complete.
He seems to have done really well considering what he inherited. He’s stuck with the contracts of Posey, Longoria, Belt, Crawford and Cueto unfortunately.
I think the biggest issue assessing him right now is the majority of his trades haven’t really played out yet. Don’t get me wrong there really aren’t that many big ones (other than the ones he didn’t make) but there are quite a few young players he’s acquired that could turn out to be “steals” in a few years. Even guys like Teng and Beck are really young and inexperienced. But Teng in particular has really dominated thus far in the low minors. If he continues that kind of pace (yeah it’s a big “If” ) but acquiring him along with 2 other prospects for Dyson would be a really solid trade. However it’s going to be several years before we really see how all of these low-level minors acquisitions pan out. But if things break the right way — he could actually have made out incredibly well on some of the “wild-card” young acquisitions. Then again these guys could flop and he could have acquired nothing — that’s the risk with the young “wild-card” type prospects. All in all though I think he’s made some promising moves that could pan out going forward. I have him a B for now.
Giants should send Teng back to the Twinkies as Dyson was damaged goods.
There’s always a risk with pitchers; that’s how it goes. The Giants had to wait out TJ shortly after acquiring Will Smith. He came back a year later and kicked ass., became one of the more dominant relievers in the game. Dyson is a good reliever; hopefully he makes it back to the bigs and still has something to offer.
The SF franchise had a dismal future until the Zaidi hiring. There were terrible decisions made including Crawford( acknowledge during this period his family had massive issues), Belt, Cueto( there wasn’t a missing link to a championship roster, there was a universe size void), Shark( seriously at that time and with that roster, why?). Even getting a slightly above replacement 3B for nothing didn’t change the franchise’s future.
Zaidi’s been interesting. Evaluate everything; look at any MiNR league free agent, draft well, find deals using money, try to make the minors a development enterprise, While doing this, develop real core values; focus on development.
Zaidi’s been a fortuitous hire. BTW, humans make errors. Make a lot of decisions some might be wrong. But Zaidi is structuring an exciting future roster.
MarkTwain. Is your foresight is as good as your hindsight.
Why Cueto and why Shark? Because by 2016 it was clear they couldn’t rely Lincecum and Cain anymore, and it certainly made them a contending team again. In fact, for more than half then2016 season, they were the best team in baseball. If you predicted the awful collapse those final two months, then congrats. But they still made the playoffs with that team and came within 3 outs of pushing the Cubs to game 5.
You can predict that players will decline over time, of course, but you couldn’t predict that Bumgarner would have a couple freak accidents, Shark would have his back problems, Cueto would need TJ surgery, etc over the next few years.
I believe in Zaidi.
Makes one of us…
So do I.
It’s been a while since I posted anything about the SFGs but, the topic got my attention.
My frustration with the former FO caused agita watching them compensate too many players with long term contracts that you knew would come back and haunt them. I was a big proponent to move guys like Sandoval and even Posey before they declined right after WSC3. It was time to cash in the chips and rebuild for the future. They could have gotten a whole bunch of prospects for certain guys. Posey’s production was on the wane and you didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see it. Most fans would have seen the value in doing so after winning 3WSCs. But the FO and owners got greedy. But that’s water under the bridge.
That brings me to Zaidi. I think he’s the best thing to happen to this club in a long time. Getting Pilar and Yaz made the season enjoyable and very watchable from here on the EC. Then, if you look at the totality of his moves, he gets value and talent; he gets it and is an above average evaluator of talent. I’d say the ORG is headed in the right direction.
Lastly, my favorite comment was about making long term deals rather than short term headlines.
Too bad the 2020 season is on hold. Be safe out there!
Too bad the 2020 season is on hold. Be safe out there!
He did okay moving Pommy & Melancon at the deadline, but not moving Madbum & Smith was a mistake. They’d have gotten at least a top-100 prospect for each of them. The SFG went 9-1 in 1-run games in July, giving the impression that they were better than they actually were.
What makes you so confident they would have gotten a top 100 prospect for Smith or Bumgarner? Those guys were absolutely on the table at the deadline. I believe that they were undervalued around the game. There was a belief (maybe somewhat true) that longtime Giants vets were stale goods and wouldn’t thrive elsewhere. Smith had some rough outings prior to the deadline, and the word on Bum was that his metrics outside of his home park sucked. I think this scared off a lot of suitors and that the offers on the table were paltry and not enough to convince Zaidi to pull the plug on a team that had surged into contention at the deadline. The optics of of tearing down at that moment would have looked really bad, even if in hindsight, the Giants’ odds of the WS were low.
What makes you so confident they would have gotten a top 100 prospect for Smith or Bumgarner?
————————————————-
A combination of what similar talents have and what they actually signed for, $85M/5 for Madbum and $40M/3 shows they are highly valued.
The bad optics are legit, but as a RS fan, I’d rather annoy the fans and be better for the next 6 years. It’s been > 5 years since we traded Miller for ERod, and I am still annoyed that we didn’t also trade Koji.
@JoeBrady part of being a good GM is being able to rise above “bad optics” and make the most rational move given the circumstances. That is what Chaim Bloom did when he traded Betts, what Mike Hazen did when he traded Goldschmidt and what Andrew Friedman did when he traded Kemp. Each of those trades made their teams way better.
Oh and letting Bumgarner leave in FA for nothing but a draft pick has the same effect on the fanbase that trading him would have.
So sick of Giants fans complaining Zaidi didn’t sell on Smith and Bumgarner. The Giants were 2.5 games out of the wildcard spot. I get that the probability was against them. I get that they got hot at the worst time and were realistically never a playoff team. But Jesus, what type of fans want their team to trade their two best players when they are in a playoff hunt (regardless of how unrealistic that hunt might be). Meanwhile, zaidi has picked up will wilson, Mauricio Dubon, Mike Yastremski, and alex Dickerson for virtually free. Oh, and he got rid of the Melancon contract. A.
They were never in the playoff hunt, one look at the August schedule would have made it clear that team was going to crash and burn. The got the Mets and cubs at a week point a few times, beat up on a lack luster Colorado team and were getting ready to face the dodgers a half dozen times the Phillies A’s Nats and St. Louis, all better teams more hungry who needed to win to make the playoffs as well. June and July were a blast to watch but the giants never had a prayer and if I could see that so could the analytical folks that work for Zaidi.
Zaidi didn’t hold onto they’re top two because he thought they had a shot he did it because no one made a decent offer he felt was worth more than two comp pics and a cpuple hundred thousand tickets sold.
Whether they were in viable contention or not is irrelevant. What was being offered was considered, by Zaidi, to be no greater than the comp picks. Any difference that made in their progress restocking, retooling, or however you want to characterize it, is negligible.
They got Dubon for a setup guy with with 4 appearances out of the BP, but an AS closer was only worth a #68 draft pick? Same with Madbum. He’s worth $85M/5, But not worth anything in a trade?
Agreed.
Overall, a clear A.
Moving Melancon AND his contract and getting Dubon for Pomeranz are all you need to look at. The rest were minor deals. Some have worked, some haven’t.
Forget the nonsense about Bum/Smith. Regardless of playoff odds, it doesn’t make sense to dump good players for low returns. Giants fans got to root for a legend and a fan favorite for another half-season and no one would trade that for a couple of lottery tickets.
Great start to his tenure.
He’s doing what needs to be done. Strengthen the Farm System while the hefty contracts (most of them will be off the books in the winter of 2021)roll off the books.
This narrative that the Giants greatly retarded their progress by not trading Bum and Smith is completely blown out of proportion. It’s just people taking the opportunity to find fault. When the speculation about the return the Giants might get earlier in the season, I remember numerous posters here stating that Giant’s fans were going to be disappointed. It was stated many times that the Giants wouldn’t get a top 50 prospect.
Now that the Giants opted for the compensation, it’s now being said they missed out on some huge haul. It can’t be both ways. It can’t be that Bum wasn’t worth a top 50 prospect, but the Giants hurt themselves badly by not trading him.
Even if the net gain would have been better by moving Bum, the difference has to be marginal at best. I doubt that Zaidi is that stupid to turn down a really good prospect for what he knew would be available in a comp pick. Plus Zaidi is not going to stay as president of baseball ops, if he is constantly being overruled by ownership.
It’s not a narrative; it is happening and it’s the way Zaidi wants it. Let’s stop being in-denial over it. This goes beyond Smith and Bumgarner. Once this all shakes out you’ll change your tune. The honeymoon phase over Zaidi hasn’t ended yet.
Maybe not top 50 but definitely top 100 and definitely definitely worth more than the comp pick.
“Even if the net gain would have been better by moving Bum…” end. They should have traded him.
@jimthegoat Definitely definitely? Please tell me exactly which awesome prospects were offered for Bumgarner or Smith? Facts please, no more of this “I totally BELIEVE they were worth THIS much”
And the fact that they both signed quickly this off-season means nothing. Yes, they are obviously not worthless, but giving up some cash for a good player to play for several years is way different than giving up valuable prospects for 2 months of a good player who may not actually be as good outside SF.
Marginal difference? What are you talking about? Zaidi absolutely blew it not trading Bumgarner / Smith. The gap between a compensation college player or High school player pick vs a top 100 prospect. Even top 150 is very wide. You sound like a fool.
Furthermore, as it’s playing out w/ the pandemic, the 2020 draft is a colossal mess. Top HS prospects are going to go to College . College Prospects aren’t playing and haven’t played in a month. And it will be closer to 3 months when it’s time to pick.
Conversely, This notion that Zaidi did ok holding on the Bumgarner and Smith because of potential 2020 compensation picks is now just laughable
Yeah, last July Zaidi should have totally known that this year’s draft class would be affected by COVID-19. What a doofus.
I don’t see one trade that Farhan has made on which he HASN’T come out on top. Don’t start complaining about picking up Draft 5 guys like Connor Joe. Farhan gets a clear A even though they may not be headline deals. The guy is a master and Giant fans should be pretty damn happy he’s running the front office. He started with a slush bucket and has already built up the franchise.
Maaaaaaaan, now I want garlic fries.
I would say the majority of these trades are really good, and I think trading Pomeranz for Dubon was a pretty smart move given their situation. However I think the biggest problem with that front office is they hired Gabe Kapler
One way to look at this extended offseason is we have a lot of guys who were working on new swings and new pitches. I figured we might struggle a bit to start the season while some of these guys were working the kinks out. Instead of being under .500 right now the developmental staff can work with the guys. So the delay may help our odds of a .500 or better season.
Either way I like the direction of the organization.