Now that the new year is upon us, it could also conceivably be the last year for several managers or lead front office executives (i.e. president of baseball operations, general manager, chief baseball officer, or whatever title a club bestows upon its top baseball decision-maker) in their current jobs if their teams don’t enjoy some success in 2022. With this in mind, here is the list of team personnel facing particular pressure — the managers and top execs who are entering the last guaranteed year of their contracts.
This list is by no means exhaustive. Firstly, some clubs don’t publicly disclose specifics of management contracts, or even whether or not an employee has signed an extension until weeks or months after the fact. It could be that some of the names mentioned are already locked up beyond 2022, or perhaps have already signed extensions in the last few weeks that won’t be made official until after the lockout. While transactions involving Major League players are prohibited during the lockout, teams are free to proceed with normal business involving team personnel, so some club might look to handle other internal matters in advance of the transactional avalanche that will come when the lockout finally ends.
Second of all, any number of factors beyond just contract status can influence an employee’s job status, and sometimes on-field success isn’t enough (just ask former Cardinals skipper Mike Shildt). However, extra years on a contract is usually the simplest way to gauge just how much leeway a manager or front office boss has, barring something unforeseen. It’s probably safe to assume that most or all of the names listed wouldn’t mind a little extra job security, if for no other reason than to avoid a season of media questions about their future, or the perception of any “lame duck” status from their own players or staff.
Thanks to Cot’s Baseball Contracts for reference information on some of these contracts. Onto the list…
Angels: Owner Arte Moreno is a huge Joe Maddon fan, but since bringing Maddon back to the organization on a three-year, $12MM contract, the Halos have recorded two losing seasons. In fairness to Maddon, he has rarely gotten to deploy an Angels roster at the peak of its potential, as Mike Trout, Anthony Rendon, and Shohei Ohtani (who barely pitched in 2020) have been injured or limited for large chunks of Maddon’s tenure. Since the veteran skipper turns 68 in February, there might also be some question about just how much longer Maddon himself wants to keep up with the grind of a regular-season schedule, especially after the challenges of managing a team through the pandemic. With the clock ticking on Ohtani’s team control and Trout’s prime, another losing season might inspire some changes in Anaheim.
Astros: Back in November, Dusty Baker received a one-year contract extension that takes the veteran skipper through the 2022 campaign. It isn’t the type of job security you’d expect for a manager who just took his team to a World Series appearance, but Houston appears content to go year-to-year with Baker, perhaps owing to his age (Baker turns 73 in June).
Athletics: Billy Beane has been running Oakland’s front office since 1997, and while the exact length of his current contract isn’t known, it is probably safe to assume Beane will have his job as long as he wishes. Beane withdrew his name from consideration from the Mets’ search when New York showed interest in Beane’s services this past fall, and for now, it seems as though he and GM David Forst are preparing to lead the A’s through yet another spin of the payroll-cutting “cycle” so familiar to Oakland fans. Since Beane also owns a minority share of the team, there would be an added layer of complication for the A’s in removing Beane if they did decide to make a change.
Blue Jays: Manager Charlie Montoyo was initially signed to a three-year deal with a club option for 2022, and the Jays exercised that option last March. The club might have been taking a bit of a wait-and-see approach by not negotiating any more additional years with Montoyo, but since Toronto won 91 games last season, Montoyo would now seem like a prime candidate for a longer-term deal. Montoyo has won praise both for the Blue Jays’ success over the last two seasons, and his steady leadership over a difficult period, with the pandemic forcing the Jays to play “home” games in Buffalo and Dunedin before finally returning to Toronto last July.
Brewers: David Stearns’ contract has been the subject of great speculation in recent months, as the Mets were focused on poaching the president of baseball operations away from Milwaukee. With Billy Eppler now inked to a four-year contract as the Mets’ new GM, it could be that Amazins could be moving away from Stearns, but several other teams might have interest if Stearns is indeed available anytime soon. The exact length or nature of Stearns’ contract isn’t known, as 2022 might be his last guaranteed year, but there may be a vesting option of some type in place that would keep Stearns with the Brew Crew through the 2023 season. For his own part, Stearns has said that he is happy with the Brewers, and owner Mark Attanasio obviously covets his PBO, as Attanasio has rejected all overtures from the Mets and other teams to interview Stearns. There seems to be plenty of leverage on Stearns’ part to either work out another extension with the Brewers, or perhaps wait out the remainder of his deal in Milwaukee and then test the market for a new challenge.
Cubs: 2022 is the last guaranteed year of David Ross’ contract, though the Cubs have a club option for 2023. It has been a tumultuous two years to begin Ross’ managerial career, between the pandemic, a first-place NL Central finish in 2020, and then a 91-loss season in 2021 after the Cubs went all-in on a rebuild. However, the acquisitions of Marcus Stroman and Wade Miley are signs that Chicago is looking to compete next season, leaving Ross with the twin challenges of mentoring young talent and also winning some ballgames. Given the long relationship between Ross and president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer, it doesn’t seem like Ross’ job is in much jeopardy, and an extension (even if just an early call on that 2023 option) wouldn’t be a shock.
Diamondbacks: Manager Torey Lovullo spent much of the 2021 season as a lame duck before signing an extension in September that covers 2022 and also provides the D’Backs with a club option for 2023. Given how poorly the Diamondbacks have played over the last two seasons, this new deal gives the Snakes some flexibility to move on from Lovullo next fall, but obviously Lovullo wasn’t considered the reason for the team’s struggles. There is also some uncertainty about Mike Hazen’s contract status, as the GM signed new multi-year contract of undisclosed length back in 2019, extending Hazen beyond 2020 (the endpoint of his original deal). If Hazen’s contract is only guaranteed through 2022 and Arizona has another rough season next year, ownership might opt to replace both Hazen and Lovullo and start fresh.
Dodgers: 2022 is Dave Roberts’ last year under contract, as his current deal doesn’t contain any team options. While Roberts’ postseason decision-making has sometimes been called into question by Los Angeles fans, he hardly bears sole responsibility, and it is also hard to argue with Roberts’ track record — a 542-329 record and a World Series title since taking the managerial job in November 2015. There hasn’t been any indication that the Dodgers are dissatisfied with Roberts’ work, so another extension could be in the pipeline.
Guardians: While Terry Francona isn’t under contract beyond 2022, but team owner Paul Dolan has said that “I feel like we’re now in a situation where he’s going to be here until he decides not to manage.” This puts the ball squarely in Francona’s court, as the veteran manager plans to return at least through next season after health problems limited his participation in both 2020 and 2021. Also, the contract details of president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti aren’t publicly known, but there hasn’t been any indication that Dolan is looking move on from the longtime executive.
Marlins: Don Mattingly’s 2022 club option was picked up over the summer, putting “Donnie Baseball” in line for what will be his seventh season managing the Fish. Much of that time has been spent overseeing a rebuilding team, but with Miami reaching the postseason in 2020 and now making some aggressive offseason moves, Mattingly and his staff will be facing some higher expectations. The Marlins could opt to let at least some of the season play out before deciding on Mattingly’s future, or if they’re confident that Mattingly is the one to lead the Fish into an era of winning baseball, they could have some talks about a longer-term deal this spring.
Orioles: Executive VP/general manager Mike Elias and manager Brandon Hyde are each entering their fourth season with the team. Hyde signed an extension last year that covers at least the 2022 season, while the initial length of Elias’ contract wasn’t known. Even if 2022 is the last season of Elias’ deal, it doesn’t seem like Orioles ownership would cut him loose before the results of the club’s extensive rebuild have been at all realized. The same could be said for Hyde, though it wouldn’t be the first time a rebuilding team has employed one manager to shepherd it through the tough years, and then hired another skipper when the club began to turn the corner towards contention.
Phillies: Joe Girardi is now entering the last guaranteed season of his initial three-year contract, and the Phillies hold a club option on the former World Series-winning manager for 2023. An 82-80 record represented Philadelphia’s first winning season since 2011, though it was still an underwhelming result for a team heavy in high-priced stars. Girardi himself hasn’t received much too much blame (at least by Philadelphia standards) for the Phils’ lack of success, and president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski is on record as saying that Girardi “did a good job for us” last year. There are some parallels to Maddon’s situation, as both he and Girardi are veteran skippers under win-now pressure for big-market teams, except Girardi doesn’t have the longstanding ties to Phillies ownership as Maddon does in Anaheim. With the club option in mind, the Phils might see what 2022 entails before deciding on an extension for Girardi.
Pirates: This is a speculative entry, since the terms of Derek Shelton’s deal weren’t released when he was hired as Pittsburgh’s manager in November 2019. If Shelton was given a three-year contract (a pretty standard pact for a first-time manager), he’d now be entering his last guaranteed year. Since the Pirates are still rebuilding, Shelton isn’t under much pressure to start winning games immediately, so it doesn’t seem at this point like his job is in any danger.
Rangers: Another speculative case, as president of baseball operations Jon Daniels signed a contract extension back in June 2018, lengthening a deal that was set to expire at the end of the 2018 campaign. If that extension happened to be a four-year pact, then, Daniels has only one year remaining. While Daniels has spent much of his most recent contract rebuilding the roster, this winter’s massive spending splurge is a clear sign that Texas is ready to start winning. One would guess that ownership wouldn’t sign off on hundreds of millions in player contracts if they had any misgivings about keeping Daniels around, so another extension wouldn’t be a surprise. Daniels is quietly one of baseball’s longest-tenured front office bosses, as he has been running the Rangers’ baseball ops department since October 2005, when he was only 28 years old.
Rockies: Bud Black is entering his sixth and what might be his final year as Rockies manager, as his three-year contract expires at season’s end. New GM Bill Schmidt has indicated that the team might explore a new deal with Black, and since Schmidt is a longtime member of Colorado’s front office, the Rockies might not have the disconnect that sometimes exists between an incumbent skipper and a new front office boss who wants their own hire running the dugout. Even though owner Dick Monfort is known for his loyalty to familiar employees, managers don’t have quite as much slack — both Walt Weiss and Jim Tracy (Black’s predecessors) resigned from the Rockies’ managerial post after four seasons apiece.
Royals: Like Shelton, Mike Matheny was also hired following the 2019 season, so this would be the final guaranteed year of Matheny’s deal if he signed a three-year term. That said, Matheny might have gotten a longer deal, owing to his past experience as manager of the Cardinals, and due to his standing as something of a manager-in-waiting in Kansas City with Ned Yost on the verge of retirement. The Royals were aggressive last winter but managed only a 74-88 record in 2021, and if the team again doesn’t take a step forward, there could be some whispers about whether or not Matheny is the right choice for the manager’s job. Then again, president of baseball operations Dayton Moore has traditionally been big on institutional loyalty, so Matheny’s job isn’t necessarily on the line if the Royals don’t at least crack the .500 mark.
Twins: Manager Rocco Baldelli received a four-year contract with multiple club options when he was hired following the 2018 season, so Baldelli is now entering his final guaranteed year. The existence of those club options puts Baldelli under team control through at least 2024, yet while Baldelli isn’t a true lame duck, he does face some pressure in getting the Twins on track following a very disappointing season. If the Twins underachieve again, Baldelli might be on the hot seat, though he did lead Minnesota to the postseason in his first two years as skipper.
White Sox: Another team that doesn’t publicize management contracts, both executive VP Kenny Williams and GM Rick Hahn signed extensions in 2017 of unspecified length. Since that time, the duo has overseen a rebuild and a payroll increase that has thus far resulted in playoff appearances in both 2020 and 2021, though the White Sox have yet to win a series. Though owner Jerry Reinsdorf is definitely aiming to capture another championship, it seems like it would take a major collapse for him to think about replacing Williams or Hahn, who have each been with the franchise for decades. Depending on their contractual status, Williams and Hahn could even be in line for extensions, if such deals haven’t already quieted been inked.
Yankees: As any Bronx fan can tell you, the Yankees have gone 12 seasons without as much as an AL pennant, though the club has reached the playoffs nine times in that span and always posted winning records. Despite this relative title drought by Yankees standards, owner Hal Steinbrenner appears satisfied with the work done by longtime GM Brian Cashman, and there doesn’t appear to be much chance of a front office change. It may be quite a while before we hear whether or not Cashman is officially staying, as several of his contracts have been settled either around the end of the season, or sometimes well into the offseason. Cashman’s last deal (a five-year, $25MM contract covering the 2018-22 campaigns) wasn’t fully put into place until December 2017.
sufferforsnakes
Francona leaves the Tribe and goes home to Arizona?
deweybelongsinthehall
He’ll like stay in Cleveland until he’s through managing. As to Baker, perhaps he’s the one comfortable going year to year. No one could have done a better takeover given trashgate and COVID. If he’s allowed to explore another opportunity even at his age, he’ll get snapped up quickly if he puts his hat in another ring.
Please, Hammer. Don't hurt 'em.
So I guess the rumors we read months ago about the Cubs extending Ross never happened? The rumors never made much a new to me anyway. They have him next season with a team option the year after that. Why not just wait at least until next season is over? They can still keep him another year if they want to and I doubt he will turn down an extension later. It seemed like the Cubs had nothing to gain by extending Ross when the rumors came out months. They still have 2 years of control whether they extend him or not.
MasterCal
They can still extend him
Please, Hammer. Don't hurt 'em.
I know… But why? They already have him locked up for 2 years. Just wait and see how he does the next year or two first. What do they have to lose? It’s not like he’s super excited to become a free agent. The market isn’t going to outbid the Cubs for him.
Vizionaire
angels should hire bud black as a manager and re-assign maddon as an advisor.
PutPeteinthehall
Maddon for advisor and trainer for the stadium cleaning crew.
Vizionaire
why do you have to be so classless?
User 2079935927
Visionaire- Some people will write anything no mattter how stupid for a thumbs up.
Cardsfanatik redux
I don’t get to watch Angels games too much, but it’d be pretty hard to be down on Maddon with some of the pitching they’ve rolled out imo. Not sure why people are hating on him.
Vizionaire
bud black is generally considered as a better handler of pitchers. he might as well be a better manager.
citizen
was this written by an evil hr manager? “Who should we fire next:?”
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Definitely written by an evil somebody. He doesn’t even mention my best friend Al. I think my head is going to explode……
woodguy
Interesting
TJECK109
Shelton will absolutely be on the hot seat, it’s not that they aren’t in a rebuild mode it’s the continued fundamental issues that he needs to fix. From base running to simple fielding the Pirates have made to many mistakes.
bucsfan0004
Shelton sucks. I can’t wait until he’s gone. Being in charge of a talentless team, the absolute very least he should do is teach fundamentals. Worst manager since John Russell.
Juiced Balls
Good points regarding the Angels + Maddon. I have a hard time seeing them move on from him so soon, though I suppose baseball is a fickle sport.
Mickey777
Really think it’s time for a change in the Bronx. The Cashman/Hal Steinbrenner team has been consistently inconsistent the past few years! We’re going for it, we sign Garritt Cole, then a year when our goal is to get under the Luxury tax. Now that we’re under the Tax we expected big signings, but no signings of any consequence. What gives? Do we have a plan? I think we need a management team with a plan. Choosing to do nothing is a plan, but one that will end unsuccessfully.
Cosmo2
I think you are confusing big moves with “plan”. Yes, they have a plan. The team consistently wins. There’s more to having a man than big signings.
dave frost nhlpa
Exactly.
My biggest issue is the best manager in NY(and the one the Yanks really needed) is now in Flushing.
Mickey777
Perhaps I should have said a championship plan. By Cashman’s own admission any season that doesn’t result in a championship is not a success.
brucenewton
Plan is to outspend every AL team with players of similar skill sets. Stress launch angle and bat speed, regardless of count. Ignore speed, defense and trying to beat the shift. Ensure introducing young stars is only what other teams do. Leading payroll should enable a winning record that occasionally might even win the division. Struggle and go home in the playoffs against the more well rounded and complete teams.
Cosmo2
Well, hopefully for Yankee fans that’s NOT the plan.
A'sfaninLondonUK
Yeah for lot of years that seemed to be the Dodgers plan (post McCourt) until Friedman got his teeth in. Was 2014 or 2015? Either way they are now as balanced a “rich team” as there is. You’d still back them against Mets/Phillies/NYY/Boston/SFG next year.
Rsox
I can see Girardi and Montoyo being on the hot seat next season.
Montoyo barely missed the playoffs last season but the expectations are going to be higher next season.
Girardi was brought to Philadelphia to get the team back to the playoffs and so far it hasn’t worked out
Juiced Balls
Plus that stare down with Scherzer, one of the game’s most respected pitchers. Not a good look tbh.
shane
Montoyo isn’t that most popular guy with Toronto fans.
TheRickestRick
Basing on that on what?
I like the guy.
smuzqwpdmx
Was there ever a manager Blue Jays fans liked? Gaston, Gibbons and everybody else has been disparaged for supposed mistakes.
I think Montoyo has done a great job with the human side of managing, which is more important than strategy. He gets the most out of his players and the people who matter respect him.
slimmycito
Gibbons was fine. TOR fans did not like Gaston and don’t like Montoyo.
CalcetinesBlancos
I still can’t believe that my Sox hired Tony the Russa as their manager.
Hello, Newman
I thought for sure they would hire AJ Hinch.
Thank goodness, because I’m a Tigers fan.
cpdpoet
Ok, so since we are ALL in search of baseball news during the lockout…
How ’bout a series of famous people who played either in the minor leagues or had a cup of coffee in the show…?
Chuck Connors, Macho Man Randy Savage, Kurt Russell etc…..and I THINK Billy Crystall had a baseball scholarship to college…?
Just a guy spitballing on New Year’s Day…
cpdpoet
You guys did such a stellar post on rule 5 Clemente…as well. It got me thinking….
btw……….Shane Victorino has entered the rule 5 chat….
Cosmo2
Woody Allen apparently came a lot closer to playing professionally than most folks would think.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Meaning,he picked up a bat, once.
bobtillman
Not to mention ex-NY state governor Mario Cuomo, who actually received a larger signing bonus than Mickey Mantle. (That’s Mario, not his dipstick kid Andrew).
JoeBrady
I hated Mario as a governor, but was really hoping that the MLB would look at him for commissioner.
someoldguy
Robert Redford was on The U of Colorado baseball team but was dismissed according to Redford because he was a drunk…
Samuel
@ someoldguy;
Redford was close friends with Don Drysdale. They grew up and played together for Van Nuys High School in LA. Redford majored in Theatre Arts.
DarkSide830
Charley Pride, Dell Curry, Mugsy Bouges (no doubt misspelled, for which I apologize).
Ducky Buckin Fent
Just wanted to swing through & wish a Happy New Year to the staff & posters. May your champagne be sitting lighter than mine today, fellas. Even posting makes my headache worse.
whyhayzee
Don’t do that to yourself. Happy New Year.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Right?
Normally don’t. Blaming the girlfriend & her vagabond associates.
Cosmo2
As somebody who worked in bars for over a decade I very much relished to opportunity to go to bed at 10pm last night, completely sober.
JoeBrady
More lives have been wasted trying to keep up with the girlfriend, especially so when she’s with her friends. It reminds me of a NYY game.
I ran into a girl from around the corner growing up. She’s married and happens to tell me that her birthday was tomorrow, and he husband was taking her to the NYY game. I also had tickets, so we agreed to meet at Billy’s. She’s there with three of her friends. and they were half-gone by 12:30.
Her husband is a sweetheart, but not a drinker, and I could see the stress in his face trying to herd the girls.
Fortunately for him, I had one of my equally derelict friends. I had one of my best ideas ever. I gave my friend his ticket and told him I’d meet him inside. My friend never had less than $2k in cash with him, was entertaining as heck, was never going to let one of the girls pay for a drink, and was generally harmless. It worked out really well. None of them were ever going to see the inside of YS, and I’m betting her husband was real happy to have someone around to entertain them.
joefriday1948
After the Rockies season, I am heartened they are keeping their General Manager and Coach as they have totally rebuilt this team. This coming year should be a return to the Halcion days.
whyhayzee
While Paul Dolan isn’t a very good owner, team manager Terry Francona has said that “I feel like we’re now in a situation where he’s going to be here until he decides not to be the owner.”
someoldguy
“If the Twins underachieve again, Baldelli might be on the hot seat, though he did lead Minnesota to the postseason in his first two years as skipper.”… IF… Baldelli was handed a team on the verge.. they were fully expected not only to win .. but to be true contenders.. instead baldelli has produced nothing… not even a singe Post season win… He and the Front office Dynamic Duo have left the Twins looking like last place team next year and their failure to capitalize on the 10 year rebuild started by Ryan should have meant they have already been fired… imagine coming out of that rebuild with a new stadium financing their hearts desires and.. going into 2022 with ZERO proven starters.. and a projected future of more of the same… Nothing has changed since Ryan was fired in 2016.. its more promises of being ” competitive”… nary a word about “Going for it all” but Po’lad don’t care … he has the same thing he had with Ryan… good ticket sellers… The money pours in… this isn’t a baseball team.. its a ticket selling operation…
Samuel
@ someoldguy;
Unfortunately, you are correct.
In retrospect it seems the Twins won the ALC for a few years because all the teams went into some sort of rebuild. Like the Yankees they put together a team that was competitive due to the juiced baseball – HR’s make up for poor defense, poor baserunning, and other poor fundamentals. When some of the juice was taken out of the ball going into 2021, those teams shortcomings were exposed. (I expect we’ll see the same thing with the rebuilt White Sox over the next few years – Larussa is being crucified for trying to teach players how to win when all they want to do is throw the ball hard and hit it hard).
I watched the new Twins FO begin to turn over the rebuilt team in their image instead of building on it. Starting with stripping its leaders (Dozier in particular). Now the FO wants to rebuild again, and the owner knows the fans won’t put up with it so he’s making public statements that that’s not their plan. A terrible situation. They’re where the Pirates fans were 2 years ago.
someoldguy
Its stark: the lack of Fundamentals in fielding.. Rooker, Larnach neither belong in the outfield.. Pitching is Defense… the difference between the top defensive teams and the bottom defensive teams runs between .75 and 1.00 earned runs a season.. … They have no idea of where players skills and weakness balance… Look at Gordon… is he really a SS or is he better being an outfielder… I watched him get great jumps.. but a total lacking of reads because of a lack of experience… Arraez… last year i was screaming for him to learn 1st base because he needed to lead-off and that requires him more playing time than being a utility player who they run in the outfield where he doesn’t belong… its amazingly frustrating to watch.. a lack of pitching fundamentals… simple lower body mechanics… they don’t seem to teach… where your weight is going is where the ball wants to go… fundamentals we taught at little league and babe ruth… ignored for a little extra velocity or a few Home runs with a Ton of easy outs and Strikeouts.. instead of line drive contact..
Samuel
@ someoldguy;
Yes!
I’ve often said – the job of a Pitcher is to keep his team in the game until the offense can win it – and the job of the defense is to keep the Pitcher in the game.
It’s a fallacy that offense supports pitching. Ask any Pitcher – it’s defense that supports him. Guys that make plays behind him so that he can pitch relaxed. A Pitcher can’t depend on K’s for outs.
Look at the small market teams such as the Rays, Brewers and Guardians that always outperform (perceived) expectations. It’s because they play decent defense….sometimes gold glove defense. The Giants and Dodgers are large market teams that put a priority on D as well. And don’t put much stock in publicly available defensive stats – because if they were accurate these projection systems would forecast half-way decently. MLB FO’s have developed their own proprietary systems to analyze player performance….and they’re constantly fiddling to make them more accurate.
someoldguy
a good coach with a good set of eyes.. will know a star when they see one.. or an injury… take Last season… Maeda on the mound… throws a pitch… i see something.. I post I see something.. meanwhile Smoltz says.. what is going on.. can’t they see he is injured… a good pitching coach would have see it the 1st pitch… I screamed about them pitching Perk after the all star break… it was nutz… couldn’t they see it… no.. because they are not aware of the players… just their charts and sheets and stats… we used to have a great time posting during twins games on the twins web site… dozens of long timers a decade or more posting .. and many others.. and when they killed the posting.. we had no place to go.. but during that time.. we’d call out seasons and players and know what was what and who was who… and didn’t understand they couldn’t see it…
Cosmo2
Heh. Are you a L.F. Celine fan?
someoldguy
Are you capable of any baseball insight?
JoeBrady
In no particular order-
Maddon use to be underrated because he thought out of the box. But now I think he tries too hard to think out of the box. BB is not that complicated.
If the LAD failed to re-sign Roberts, he will be employed the next day.
I think CL needs to decide on a direction. If they are going to continue to focus on maintaining a .500 team, they should really allow Tito to go elsewhere. SD would’ve been a good gig for him. That said, even smart people need physical health (PSA to America).
I understand why Girardi was fired by the NYY. I’m not sure why those reasons aren’t valid in Philly. Joe G just doesn’t show me anything.
Donnie Baseball is my favorite Yankee ever, but he needs to start winning. “That’s the way you play the game’ can only last so long. I’m rooting hard for him.
The AZ duo-Just like Donnie, I like them, but right now, it ain’t working.
While I think Preller is handing-upside-down batschitt crazy, it should be clear now that he was the brains behind the Rangers He left during 2014, which mostly coincided with the Golden Age of Ranger BB (mostly because he wasn’t allowed to trade the talent he acquired) The Rangers continued to decline, and I have no idea how Daniels still has a job.
Cashman knows baseball well enough, but it doesn’t feel like he knows how to get the job done. He’s made some decent trades, but starting the year off with Torres at SS, and no lefties other than the undependable Hicks, was questionable. And committing $90M to DJ, to age 37, didn’t make sense to me. They should’ve said thanks and good-bye, tagged him, moved Torres to 2B, and gotten a real SS.
I’m not sure, but is Montoya Gibbons’ doppelganger? All the ‘steady leadership’ BS aside, did anyone expect the RS to beat them out? The RS had better BP depth, but TO had the better lineup and rotation. They should’ve beaten out the RS easily.
Bud Selig Fan
@ JoeBrady
Mattingly doesn’t “needs to start winning”. He went through hell with the re-build and got that team to consistently overperform their talent level and not just 2020 either. I’m assuming he’s quite safe and hopefully gets an extension soon. Can’t wait to see what he can do with that team over the next 2-3 years.
The Phillies stink. Their owner should have bit the bullet and hired a young brainiac instead of Dombrowski and let him re-build that team right. Now to win that division or be a serious WS contender he’ll need to spend another $80MM this year alone.
Samuel
@ Bud Selig Fan;
LOL
The problem with the Phillies is that they had a long rebuild done by hiring a couple of “young brainiacs” at the direction of club President Andy MacPhail – who’s previous accomplishments were to rebuild the Cubs to a point where they won for a year or so, then dropped back again; and replaced Pat Gilllick in Baltimore after Gillick walked out when the owner fired Manager Davy Johnson for no reason. Same thing there – MacPhail got a little bounce in Baltimore, then moved onto Philadelphia. Not understanding analytics himself, he brought with him a couple of kids from the Orioles that he thought were “young brainiacs”.
The owner – John Middleton – got talked into doing a rebuild al la the Astros and Cubs. Unfortunately, the kids MacPhail brought in were so far over their heads it was pathetic to watch – playing around trying to do groundbreaking creative things with no understanding of the how or why.
The Phillies were in the situation that the Twins are now (and the Pirates before them) – how does the owner go to the fans and tell them they need to do another multi-year rebuild when the fans sat through the last one and got butkis? Unlike Minn-St. Paul and Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is a major market. Middleton had to do something quickly as spending the better part of rebuilding for 10 years pretty much kills a good portion of the fan base (and Philly sports fans are extremely demanding). He got a proven manager in Gerardi and a proven GM in Dombrowski. I don’t know about Gerardi, but I doubt that Dombrowski would have come out of retirement to run teams in the Minnesota and Pittsburgh markets – the budgets would be too low, the restructuring would take too long…..not worth the headaches at his age.
Bud Selig Fan
@ Samuel
Hiring Dombrowski just delayed the inevitable. The longer it takes Middleton to hire the right brain the better as far as I’m concerned. Eventually every large-market team will be run by a protégé of an elite FO and when that happens the games competitive balance will become so skewed even Yankees fans will say something needs changed.
The NL has Friedman at LA. Zaidi at SF. Both will have sustained juggernauts. The Mets will eventually get the right POBO and never lose again, but Cohen will spend billions to win until then anyhow. The Cubbies could have their brain now in Hoyer, jury is still out. And then we have the Phillies.
The AL has Bloom at Boston, so they will become sustained juggernauts, Shapiro at Toronto the same. Once Cashman is finally gone the Yankees will get the right brain. The Angels are stupid, they could have had Matt Arnold of MKE, but hired Minasian.
Samuel
@ Bud Selig Fan;
I spent my career in the computer field – and I studied what came before me. There was a saying as computers used in business took off – “those that do not use them will fall behind”. That happened.
However, in time as the costs of computers came down drastically and home computers could be tied together in local area networks, computer usage became commonplace. (now Smartphones can tie to networks as well). It’s just another tool, something for people to use to do business.
In the same way we can discuss the use of analytics in baseball. I was opposed to those shouting omnipotence from the peanut gallery’s as for 20 years unskilled executive were promoted to take over MLB FO’s, and went from one fad theory to another. I knew that when the cycle completed those with analytic tools would realize the same things as the greybeards they forced out after a lifetime in the field had. That’s come to pass. Sociologists used to call this sort of thing: “Culture Lag”.
Analytics have been a part of ML FO’s for years now. Dombrowski knows how to use them, Eppler as well. There is no longer resistance or a mystique.
–
Along the same lines – I was opposed to the DH as I loved watching NL games and the strategy being used in them. Making fun of Tommy Lasorda for coming up with the double switch when pinch-hitting for a Pitcher was stupid. It was a lot more than that. Better teams like the Dodgers built rosters to use most of their position players each game, working around the Pitchers PA’s. But today AL teams – starting with the Rays and moving onto the Astros and others – have learned to use bench players to their advantage as a part of game strategy, even with the DH. Putting bench players in during the 4th and 5th innings happens quite often with many teams. That makes the game more fun to watch, and more challenging for the players, manager, and the FO’s that work to make out the roster entering each series they play. So having a DH no longer impedes strategic moves during a game. Doing way with the Pitcher hitting is fine.
someoldguy
long before analytics baseball people kept books on players/pitchers and analyzed data… Look up the Ted Williams Shift.. or talk to any really old timer… Some of them could tell you all about pitchers.. or all about batters… some Managers kept records… some just had good memories.. and good perception of the world… you don’t need a computer if you can do it in your head… or the Guy most would recognize: Earl Weaver… baseballprospectus.com/news/article/19482/tell-it-…
though he wasn’t the 1st who know what it took to win… ( and the secret is… know your players strengths and weakness… set them up to magnify their strengths and minimize their weaknesses.. .. know what works at what time ( baseball is situational.. what is right in the 1st inning isn’t necessarily right in the 8th inning..) and pray to the baseball god for luck… because luck is a huge part of winning..
JoeBrady
someoldguy
long before analytics baseball people kept books on players/pitchers and analyzed data…
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That’s a pet peeve of mine. Critics of advanced analytics think these things just happened. When we were playing pickup BB 50-60 years ago, we did all the same things, and I am pretty sure we didn’t invent it. We didn’t even need to keep books. Jimmie was a dead-pull lefty with prodigious power and a loop in his swing. Never throw him a low FB and never play anyone on the left side. Computers help, but we mostly knew where to play.
JoeBrady
“those that do not use them will fall behind”.
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I was the luckiest guy in the world. I worked for an engineering organization, so we had a mainframe, but no one had a desktop computer.
When they finally arrived, they bought three for the accounting group, and I got one of them. Creating everything from scratch is 100X better learning tool than inheriting something that someone else built. And believe me, there was nothing out there. I got to write everything.
JoeBrady
Bud Selig Fan
Hiring Dombrowski just delayed the inevitable.
===========================
That was the final act of desperation. They were a 66-win team in 2017, with some interesting kids, like Nola, Crawford, Kingery, Hoskins. But it wasn’t a team that had a huge influx of young talent.
So they hired Santana and Arrieta. That made them better, but it didn’t make them good, just older and more expensive.
So they added Realmuto and Segura, which again made the better, but not good, and more expensive and older.
This is just like with Preller. Every move just made them older and more expensive. Unlike Preller, Philly never had nearly the prospect depth to compete.
Samuel
@ someoldguy;
In the mainframe days Earl was getting printouts daily at his requestrs.
Computers are not magic. Someone(s) has to do determine the variables and the formula for the software, someone or something has to provide the input, someone or something (i.e. artificial intelligence) has to do the coding, and someone(s) has to analyze the output. One installations proprietary systems will seldom show the specifics that another’s will. Which is why I com on here and read things from people about how: “teams look at this statistic” – as if all teams are looking at the same statistic showing the same result. LOL Look at publicly available stats such as bWar and fWar (or whatever – I can’t keep up….they’re nice to look at for some perspective, but I’d rather watch the games).
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
I don’t think you have a clue as to what Cleveland is doing. They’re at a point in a process and seem to be on track.
JoeBrady
What does that even mean? They’re at a point in a process? Isn’t every person and every organization at a point in a process?
And what seems to be on track? Unless you are talking to their GM, then you have no idea of what their short-term goals are. And unless you know what their s/t goals are, you have no idea of whether or not they are on track.
If their goal is a WS next year, I’m pretty sure they are not on track.
Juiced Balls
Sorry to butt in here, but for example, the Rockies… it’s generous to call what they’re doing “a process”. I don’t understand why Cleveland hasn’t prioritized outfield offense for so long, but man, that pitching and flexable payroll… I’d say they are in a good spot going forward.
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
Most team are in fact at a point in a process.
I don’t need to talk to the Cleveland GM. He and manager Francona have made public statements and explained that they were going into a ‘rebuild on the fly’ years ago. Following that team it was easy to understand as many of their veteran players were heading for FA and there was no way Cleveland could pay them the going rates and still have enough money to put players around them to be competitive. Cleveland has done that for years. I saw the same thing with the A’s. They’ve done that for years.
The fact that you wrote “If their goal is a WS next year, I’m pretty sure they are not on track” is both funny and answers your question.
There is no one that follows the Cleveland baseball team that remotely thinks they intends to win a WS in 2022. Watch what happens to the White Sox after they tried “to go for it” in 2021 – a record payroll and a dry farm system leaving nothing to use to fill their holes (of which they have quite a few). Cleveland will not make that mistake, nor with their cohorts in the ALC – Detroit and KC – until the time is right to.
This is not rotisserie baseball. It’s business. And a cutthroat business at that.
JoeBrady
“Most team are in fact at a point in a process.”
Of course, everyone is. The WTF is the point of saying it?
If you think Tito should stick with Cleveland thru their rebuild, fine. Just say that. IMO, if they are rebuilding, then Tito should move on. He’s too good and too physically fragile to waste his remaining years with a rebuild.
And, FWIW, Detroit just went all-in by already having signed ERod & Baez. The time is right and the is now.
Bud Selig Fan
Cleveland, even with all of their catastrophic pitching injuries only finished 2 games under .500. Prior to that they had contended 8 straight years as a small-market team. Quite the feat. Rebuild on the fly isn’t done by SM teams, but that’s what they are attempting to do and I believe they will succeed at it.
They just need to get healthy in the pitching department and they should contend in ‘22. Tito seems to love it there and I can see why.
someoldguy
why rebuild … build a machine that recognizes and turns out talent.. Pitching at the top of the list… and contend virtually every year.. see the rays.. when is their last rebuild?… Cleveland pitching machine.. are always 1 or 2 players away from the top of the AL central heap.. now if the owner would just say yes…
JoeBrady
Bud Selig Fan
Prior to that they had contended 8 straight years as a small-market team. Quite the feat.
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Extremely well-run, no doubt. I get more than a little annoyed when they refuse to put some finishing touches on the product. I think some small market teams fail by not gambling that another $10M spent on a key position might add another 100,000 sold.
Even in small markets like Cleveland, attendance can vary from 1.5M to 2.0M. The investments can pay off.
Samuel
@ JoeBrady;
I’m sorry.
1. It’s you that said Cleveland should go all in and not be a .500 team. I’m saying they don’t care if they’re a .480 team, a .500 team or a .520 team in 2022.
2. Detroit hardly went “all in” by signing ERod & Baez. LOL It’s their next step in the process. A few more veterans to augment the youngsters they’re bringing up that will in turn become the core when they truly “go for it”….and when they do, there will be more FA signings as well as taking on salaries in trades. It will go on for years.
Come ‘on – you really think that ERod & Baez makes Detroit a WS contender in 2022?
solaris602
As a CLE it bewilders me why they haven’t properly addressed their OF needs since Michael Brantley departed. It isn’t for lack of available OF on the market. They just seem to round up a group of players with iffy skill sets every spring and hope it works. Kudos to the FO for landing Myles Straw who will be in CF long term. We just need one solid corner OF, but I’m not holding my breath.
Francona gets more out of this team than most managers could. I shudder to think of the day when he retires because most of us know we’ll probably see 4 or 5 mediocre first time managers (Manny Acta types) cycle through that position over the next 10 years.
getright11
Mattingly is the most underappreciated manager in MLB.
DarkSide830
Dusty Wathan for Phillies Manager 2023
Ogie Oglethorpe
Dumpster Diving Hahn
User 2079935927
The Angels are Maddon’s dream job and Moreno likes him. I’m sure given his age he might think about retiring perhaps in about 3years. I like to see Maddon mentor someone like Erstad. I like Erstad and think he would be a good manager.
D*ckin the dog
Surprised Erstad hasn’t been hired somewhere in the Angels organization for a long time now!
O's Fan_JMiller
Bal Orioles….. Hyde is the transitional fill-in… no doubt about it. Looking at Buck Britton to be managing the O’s once the talent all comes up from the farm. His lower level managerial winning % keeps getting better as the talent keeps getting elevated. Kudos!
Shoguneye
Re: Blue Jays Charlie Montoyo. Yup steady is high praise indeed. Not inspiring or bold. He’s good for about 10-15 losses per year easily. They need a stud but will maintain ‘steady’ because FO wants an errand boy not a true leader.
Cosmo2
10-15 losses per year easily? Um, no, that’s not even possible
solaris602
As a point of clarification Walt Weiss was not fired, nor did he resign. His contract simply expired. People have been claiming both since it happened, but it is what it is.
desertbull
Baseball manager – the most overrated position in all of professional sports.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Or sometimes underrated — depending on who’s talking.
Redwolves3
It’s January 2022 and time for MLB and MLBPA to get serious now (not wait until Spring Training) … negotiate a new contract and let the fans have baseball back.