JULY 2: In another update from Dougherty, he reports that the Nationals’ latest offers to Soto haven’t included any deferred money. Just about all of the Nats’ biggest expenditures in recent years have included heavy deferrals — for instance, Stephen Strasburg’s seven-year, $245MM contract contained $80MM is deferred money.
JULY 1: Soto spoke with Dougherty on Friday, backtracking somewhat on his previously expressed desire to play out his arbitration years to test free agency. “Everybody wants to go to free agency and see how the market is going to be for them,” Soto told the Post. “But for me, I really don’t know if I want to go there or if I want to stay here. I feel really good here. We’ll see what’s going to happen. For me, right now, the plan that we always have is go year by year. But you don’t know what the future has for you.”
Asked whether he’d consider signing an extension with the Nats, Soto replied “Yes. Why not?” He suggested he’s content with Boras and the front office discussing potential terms during the season, saying he prefers to “to be far from (negotiations) because I want to concentrate on the game.”
JUNE 30: The Nationals made an extension offer to Juan Soto at some point this spring, writes Jesse Dougherty of the Washington Post. Specific timing of the proposal isn’t clear, but Dougherty adds that it’s believed the offer was made before Soto’s agent Scott Boras visited Nationals Park in late May. Soto rejected the offer, but Dougherty characterizes discussions between the two sides as “active.”
It’s at least the second offer the Nationals have put forth to the face of the franchise within the past 12 months. In February, Soto told Enrique Rojas of ESPN he’d rejected a long-term overture made prior to the lockout. Rojas reported the pre-lockout offer would’ve been for 13 years and $350MM guaranteed. Dougherty reports the Nationals went beyond $350MM in their spring proposal, but specific terms are unknown. Both Dougherty (Twitter link) and Britt Ghiroli of the Athletic (on Twitter) hear that rumors of a 13-year, $425MM offer are inaccurate.
In any event, the relatively recent proposal is the latest indication the Nationals are hopeful they can keep Soto around for the long haul. It’s at least somewhat notable that discussions remain open even after Soto again declined. In his February interview with Rojas, the two-time Silver Slugger Award winner expressed a desire to proceed year-by-year through the arbitration process in anticipation of reaching free agency at the end of the 2024 season. That wasn’t due to any expressed animosity towards the Nationals organization, but rather a desire to market himself to all 30 teams with a good chance at a record-setting payday.
Without specific terms of the proposal, it’s impossible to pin down precisely where the latest offer stacked up among the biggest in major league history. At worst, it’d have marked the third-largest guarantee ever. Only two players have ever topped the $350MM mark. Mookie Betts received 12 years and $365MM from the Dodgers on his July 2020 extension, while Mike Trout took home ten years and $360MM in new money on his March 2019 extension.
As was the case when Soto turned down $350MM over the winter, many fans are sure to bristle at the notion of rejecting a proposal at an even greater amount. That’s particularly true in the context of what’s been a relative “down year,” at least in comparison to his pre-2022 performance. Soto enters play Thursday with a .224/.375/.437 slash line. Those are the lowest such marks of his career across the board, as he’d hit at least .282 with an on-base percentage above .400 and a slugging percentage north of .500 every season from 2018-21.
Nevertheless, the first three months of this season are unlikely to have a depressing effect on Soto’s long-term value. For one, his relatively underwhelming numbers would still be a strong showing for the majority of players. Soto’s on-base and slugging marks are decidedly above the respective .312 and .394 league figures. His .224 batting average is certainly not ideal, but that’s in large part attributable to a .225 average on balls in play that’s the fifth-lowest number for qualified hitters. Soto’s average exit velocity and hard contact rate are down somewhat, so the lesser batted ball results can’t be chalked up solely to misfortune. Yet his quality of contact metrics have still been solid, and considering he entered the season owner of a .330 career BABIP, Soto seems likely to enjoy better ball-in-play results moving forward.
Owner of a .290/.424/.534 career line with more walks than strikeouts, Soto is still on track for an eye-popping payday. He amazingly won’t turn 24 until October and would hit free agency in advance of his age-26 season. Once there, he still looks a good bet to top the record $36MM average annual value for position players over more than a decade, assuming he stays healthy. A deal in excess of $400MM seems likely, and it’s not out of the question Soto and his reps could set their sights on the half-billion dollar mark. (Getting to $500MM would likely require a 13-year term at an AAV just shy of $38.5MM).
There’s of course some risk for Soto in continuing to turn down offers that’d make him among the highest-paid players in league history. Every player has some risk of a drop-off in performance or severe injury. Soto, though, will have already banked more than $25MM in arbitration earnings by the end of this season. He’ll go through the arb process twice more and figures to make another $50+MM over the next couple years before reaching the open market.
Discussions with Soto come against a backdrop of possible change for the Nationals. The Lerner family has been looking into sale possibilities for the past few months. A potential ownership shakeup has led to some uncertainty for president of baseball operations Mike Rizzo and manager Dave Martinez, each of whom are in the final guaranteed year of their contracts and have 2023 options that need to be decided upon next month.
The roster has undergone a major overhaul dating back to last summer’s trade deadline. Washington has kicked off a rebuild and seen the departures of key contributors to their 2019 World Series team like Max Scherzer, Anthony Rendon and Trea Turner. The Nats enter play tonight 20 games below .500, and they’re certain to move impending free agents Josh Bell and Nelson Cruz over the next four and a half weeks. They’ve not given much, if any, consideration to dealing Soto in a franchise-altering blockbuster. Rizzo flatly shot down speculation about a Soto trade four weeks ago, saying the Nationals “have every intention of building this team around” him.
Héctor Gómez of Z101 was first to report fairly recent discussions between Soto and the Nationals this afternoon.
I just don’t understand how any player can care about setting records regarding contract amounts. My ego , while not nonexistent, just isn’t that big. Soto turned down $350MM and now reportedly something bigger. Wow. Hundred of millions just isn’t enough. Better hope he stays healthy until he hits FA where, undoubtedly, some club will give him…what….$500MM??! Shheessh.
I honestly couldn’t agree more. However, I remember reading a while back how players also accept certain contracts at a high value to benefit others after them. I.E., if Soto were to accept a contract at a lower number, then how could a player possibly justify topping what Soto has?
I’m not saying that’s what’s going on here, just saying it’s a possibility. Still, if someone were to offer me $350mil, then possibly $425mil? I just couldn’t bring myself to say no.
But of course, I’m only human.
There are few things more disingenuous than a millionaire claiming they’re asking for 500 million guaranteed for the sake of some altruistic nonsense about those coming after them. I’ve heard it before, it makes me gag every time. You wanna feed your bank account AND your ego? Fine. Just don’t try and make it sound like your doing it on some principle other than that.
How could a player expect to get more than Soto? For starters, hit for more than a .224 average!
Let’s not forget he has a ‘family to think about’
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
Too much expectation, .220 can turn into .320, You may have to pay him, but you’ll have to pay those around him big bucks to support him. Can you do it?
Ƭ̵̬̊ Player Formly Known As MousecopƬ̵̬̊
By turning down 350mil and now 425mil I hope he isn’t a jagoff like Latrell Spreewell and say it’s not enough to feed his family. As far as I know he’s not married. What’s there to think about? If someone over 13 years. Give me 4 opt out options every 3 years. No trade clause for 10 of the 13 years. Who knows when the Nats will compete again. 10 years after signing for 13 years. I’d gladly waive my no trade if it meant going to a contender and help the Nats at the same time.
Players are encouraged by the MLBPA to keep pushing for new records to benefit other members. That’s why Scherzer accepted the Mets offer. He preferred to stay in LA but it set a new AAV, so off to Queens he went.
Same for Yasmani Grandal.
Yep, doesn’t matter what the player wants just have to keep driving up the price. It’s the same reason Zack Grienke wound up in Arizona and David Price wound up in Boston
Look at Jose Ramirez as a counter-example.
I never accept a 1st offer but a 2nd one thats around 400 million? Guy must have some expensive insurance or a bigger pair than me. I would have taken the money and ran.
You and me both. As a fan I’m not excited about signing any player for the kind of money he wants. Look at Mike trout. Great player, maybe the best of our generation, the last several years he’s not been able to stay healthy.
They’re probably better off with him not taking it in hindsight. He’s been brutal this year, don’t want to commit money to someone until they’re a sure thing, not just a flash in the pan.
A 136 OPS+ and .812 OPS with 14 HR and 15 doubles is brutal?
Those aren’t superstar numbers that would justify the ridiculous money Boras is asking for, but I’d sure take that kind of brutality on my team for the right price.
For a 23 year old those numbers are pretty close to that ridiculous money area. (Of course I still say NOBODY is worth 400 million, let alone 500.
Why? The free market dictates what they can ask for. It’s not like teams are falling into deep debt signing these deals and becoming insolvent. Yet MLB as a whole continues to thrive.
Worth 400 million if they make you 400 million. Those situations are rare.
If the free market dictates that steak is 500 million a pound, you have yourself a nice fish dinner. Just because the market prices it like that doesn’t mean it’s worth it. I’m sure CEOs making eight million a year might disagree with me but…
There is no free market with a luxury tax imo
Since teams and the MLB are subsidized by taxpayers, since MLB has a monopoly and since the CBA limits the market, there is no “free market”.
If it as not worth it, the teams would not keep offering it.
You’re missing the point. I don’t think it’s worth it. I wouldn’t pay it. Those that do pay it will eventually regret it. It’s not worth it. Whether they pay it or not, it’s not worth it. They’ll wish they hadn’t done it in a few years, it’s not worth it. There is a such thing as an overpay and overpays by definition…. aren’t worth it. The fact that people pay it does not mean it’s worth it, I refuse to accept this principle.
Brutal was certainly an exaggeration, for sure. But my point remains, a .812 OPS is not up to par for him. He remains a good, solidly above average player, but there’s a big gap between that and being a true star. The Nats need to make sure he’s the latter before committing that kind of money, or else you wind up in a Texas Rangers situation, 2 mega contracts for players who didn’t deserve it.
‘Remains a good, solidly above average player’ is nonsense haha. He’s been among the 5 best hitters in baseball basically since he debuted at 19. His zips wOBA projection for the rest of the season, for context, is 2nd in baseball (by a hair) to Trout. Steamer projects his wrc+ for the rest of the season (also by a hair) just behind Vlad Jr and Alvarez, and just in front of Trout. He’s also going to hit FA at an extremely young age and has improved in the OF as a defender. If you’re unclear why he’s going to have overwhelming interest in the FA market and thus is getting these massive offers this far in advance of reaching it, you just don’t know much about baseball
How is that nonsense? I would say it’s an accurate description of his play this season. Of course, in years prior, he was a top 5 hitter, but the point is that he’s not right now. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in paying guys for what they have done, not expected results. I believe he’s able to turn it around, but I think lot of people were way to quick to declare him the modern day Ted Williams, he needs to prove it over a long time period.
Haha there’s an easy way to do this – Vlad Jr has the same fWAR this year as Soto, would you describe him as a good, solidly above average player as well? Or do you appropriately look at more than a small stretch of uncharacteristic performance and say he’s one of the best hitters on the planet?
The irony of that statement is that the overall career numbers for Guerrero show that last year was the anomaly. 2 WAR in 2019, played at a 2 WAR rate in 2020, on pace for 3-4 WAR this year, posted 7 WAR last year.
Vlad Jr has the same fWAR this year as Soto,
That’s what I hate about these constant articles about generational players. Vlad, Yorban. Soto, Wander Franco, Julio Rodriguez, Acuna, Tatis, etc., can’t all simultaneously be the best player of their generation.
136 OPS+ says he is 36% better than average. That also shows that even in a down season so far, and he has already improved to 139 OPS+ since the article came out, Soto is a top 30 hitter. If you believe in paying guys for what they have done then Soto is a top 2-3 hitter and incredibly young. A record contract should be on the table if the Nationals are serious about keeping him.
He hasn’t been brutal he hasn’t been pitched to this year simple as that.
He has no protection in that lineup. You put him on a quality deep offensive team he will dominate again. Why would any team that faces Washington ever pitch to this guy.
Brutal is a joke. Hasn’t been worthy of 500 million sure.
A person could live an extremely lavish lifestyle making $10 million in a lifetime. Dude wants $400+ million and turned down $350 million. Ronald Acuna and Albies were just happy to see a big number put in front of them and they signed, and after baseball they’ll never have to even think about working again.
Any adult should accept $350 million for playing a game. I don’t care if you can get more. It’s $350 million. Nobody in your family will have to work 10 generations from now if he passed it on.
If all players took that attitude, they would still be making $1 million a year.
You push the envelope so that those behind you get more, especially the guys who don’t have the long careers ahead of them. It’s that simple
Not true. $1 million/year is good money but it’s not unheard of. $35-$40 million/year is insane money for a person or a family. You can literally but anything you want short of an island.
Acuna and Albies hadn’t made any money yet. They were also years away from free agency. Soto has already made 25 million. He’s already set so yes, he can sit and play the field for a record setting contract. You can’t compare those contracts, they were completely different circumstances
I think you can get an island for 35 to 40.
Cap & Crunch
I doubt 10% of current MLB players give a rip about the kids behind them future earning power
When they mostly are all making league min the first 3 years how could you say they don’t care ?
League mins wouldn’t be moving up if it wasn’t for the top end guys
Because plenty of folks stop caring about who goes through what they went through once they’re done going through it themselves. Most folks, in fact.
The extreme numbers are being rammed into player’s heads by agents. In this case, the biggest ‘rammer’ of all. That humble humanitarian, wants what’s best for the game, blood sucking leech, Sir Scott of Boras.
Any adult should accept $350 million for playing a game.
It doesn’t work that way. No one with $100M has to work again. Soto should get approximately market value. I’d respect it if he took less to win or stay at home, etc. But the alternative to the player getting the money is that the owner gets to keep the money. And the owners don’t need to work another day in their lives either,
Acuna and Albies had no where NEAR the success record when they signed that Soto has had so far in his career. Soto should get paid commensurate with the value he bring to the team and the sport. That means a RECORD salary considering his age.
Which is why you still accept minimum wage at your job? If you had a job in a $12 plus billion industry that brought actual value like a MLB players does where only 720 people could have a job in that field at any one time and were one of the top 5 at what you do in the world you could ask for any amount you want and they would simply pay it.
“That only has 720 workers at any given time”… this has to be the MOST IGNORANT statement I’ve ever seen here. Ummm, it’s more than just players, you know. There’s accountants, scouts, caterers, vendors, maintenance, lawyers, errand folk, assistants… it’s almost as if it’s an actual billion dollar business. This is an example as someone too stupid to have a legit opinion but just stupid enough to express one anyway.
There are guys in every sport you just can’t like.
If they can’t offer 400mm+, or if they do and he turns it down… Trade him asap and take the most advantage of the years left until he’s a FA by accruing a MASSIVE haul in prospects. Finish the rebuild in that case. It’s becoming more clear that he doesn’t want to stay in DC. and to cash in BIG time.
Clearly he’s seeking a franchise-crippling contract. Don’t care what player it is, he’s not and never will be worth it. I completely agree – make him available now, and let the bidding begin.
You nailed it. Franchise crippling contract. They let Harper walk. They can’t afford to do that again. Once he begins to heat up, move him for the best prospects and or major league talent you can extract.
There is no such thing as “franchise-crippling” contracts anymore. The Padres are in the 27th largest market in the country and they just gave out TWO $300+ million deals. The Nationals are in one of the largest markets in the nation and can easily afford two players on Trout-like deals.
Not easy to trade a player of that caliber. Huge cost in prospects and or bad contracts.
He’s a generational player. But I worry about his ability to contribute to play the outfield because of his body type. He’s not a Trout and Mookie type to stay playing the outfield. He will wind up being a first baseman and or DH. $400M plus contracts will cripple a team. Nobody is worth it IMHO. I’m a huge Aaron Judge and Yankees fan and I don’t want the team to break the bank for him either. It still takes 9 players to win.
In case you didn’t notice, there is now a DH position in both leagues. When Soto hits 33-34 years old and can no longer play in the OF he can move to DH. When small market teams are signing multiple players to $300+ million deals there is no longer any such thing as a contract that will cripple a team. 50% of teams can field a team with a $200 million payroll and still make a very nice profit.
Trade him and add pieces for the next core. No sense locking him up if you don’t have the talent around him to win.
What? That makes no sense. They already have him under control through ‘24. If they extend him they get him beyond ‘25 when they could be a totally different team. He’s only 23 for goodness sake, you’re talking as if his window is closing soon. He could be part of the “next core”.
You need other talent besides him. Paying him what he is worth will hamstring them significantly in the future. Smart move is to trade him.
Sure THIS point I completely agree with. Better ways to spend that money.
They already have him under control through ‘24.
Break it into two pieces.
1-His two control years. Great value, but they will still finish last both years. So the value disappears.
2-After 2024, he is just another free agent. The Nats will get $40M worth of value whether they give the $40M to Soto, or give $20M each to two run of the mill all stars.
Replacing Josh Bell and Nelson Cruz this off season would be a good off season. Then they need a shortstop, third baseman, left fielder and maybe even a center fielder. While I’m at it, I don’t know about Keibert Ruiz either. Maybe Brady House fills either shortstop or third. Or maybe he doesn’t. Remember Carter Kieboom? Can this all be done by 2025? I doubt it very much. They will also need at least three relievers. I am more optimistic about the starting pitching situation. They have Cavalli, Henry (even though he is currently hurt) and Jake Irvin. If two of them become productive starters, that is great. If all three do, it is like winning a lottery.
I just don’t see Soto staying with a team that has so much work to do. Then you factor in the lousy Strasburg and Corbin contracts. DFA’ing Corbin is a real option perhaps as early as this season.
Kiebert Ruiz is a pre-arb, 24 year-old catcher who’s controllable through 2028 and already roughly league average with the bat during the first season in which he’s had more than 96 PAs.
The framing and caught-stealing marks are not great, but hey: he’s pacing for a full-time catcher’s workload this season and, oh yeah, he’s 24.
Ruiz is clearly not hitting as hard as Wilson Ramos – the inevitable comparison at this point in the rebuild – did during his first full year with the Nats, but it’s not like he’s all that far off.
For me, it’s tough to be anything except really bullish on this guy.
Six years of Ruiz and JoJo for 1.5 years of Trea and .5 years of Max in a lost season was beyond worth it.
Their farm system is bottom half and they have some bad contracts and deferred money, depending on how high ownership wants to run their payroll, they might not be able to be a totally different team by 2025.
Do you think he wants to be on a losing team for this year and the next two?
Do you think he won’t take the most money rather than worry about winning the first two years of a contract? Players are passionate but it’s a job. Fans way over estimate players hatred for getting paid while losing. Yea they want to win, but it’s a job first and foremost.
I think the Nationals are upping their offers right now because they feel if he doesn’t accept, then the best thing to do is to trade him this off season. They should get more for him if he has two years left than 1.5 years or less left.
Trade him for what?
Your Dream: trade him for every high ranked prospect on the team that wants him. The rebuild could begin and end with trading Soto.
Trade him for what?
Trade him for what?
Nacho’s and ladies of the night!
I think they should get more than that. Btw, it is Nachos. There is no possessive there.
We’re going to keep hearing reports of Soto turning down extension offers until he’s inevitably traded
Like most Scott Boras clients, once he gets PAID, he’ll never live up to anything close to the kind of seasons that got him paid to begin with. I feel sorry for the fans, of the team, who pays him.
That’s literally the case with every blue chip Boras client. The only 2 outcomes that are guaranteed with those contracts are regret and the inability to surround the overpaid has been with any kind of talent.
Like that guy with the two different-colored eyes. Whatever happened to him?
So only Boras clients possibly lose motivation when they no longer have financial incentive?
I don’t see where anyone said that. Reading isn’t that hard.
So name a few. Exactly what Boras clients have gotten paid and then went into a nosedive in performance. Here is the list of the players he represents.
Probably should just trade him to one of the big swinging richards organizations and plunder their system.
Maybe he just doesn’t want to play for the Nats. Can’t blame him.
That actually seems pretty unlikely
Sheesh. Doesn’t anybody know what a negotiation looks like. You make an offer, it gets turned down. It doesn’t mean the player doesn’t want to play for you….just that he hopes there is a next offer with more money. So far, its been going exactly that way.
Maybe he does want FA; maybe there is a number he will accept. Or maybe, just maybe…he’d be fine going to free agency AND there is a number that he would accept. It would be more fun if folks wouldn’t jump to conclusions that far exceed the facts. It is a negotiation–a back and forth dance.
That would require using some logic and critical-thinking. Wait… do I hear the Macerena? Why wasn’t I invited to the party??
Soto to the Jays
Bichette/Kirk/Lourdes/Groshans plus A/AA filler to the Nats
Kirk can he swapped with Monero. Groshans can be swapped with Orelvis
I would say the nats would do that. Don’t know why the Jays would or a Jays fan would want them to. You have Bichette for a extra year. He is a ss vs a dh. Need prospects to keep contending or really go all in. I would rather add Soto without losing a key player. Wouldn’t you like Corbin as your long man?
I think if the Jays traded Bichette, Moreno, Martinez and Lourdes the Nats would have to think long and hard on that and it’s a realistic return for Soto.
@Jaysfan1981 Lunacy. I wouldn’t deal Kirk straight up for Soto. No one would. 4-1/2 years of Kirk and his 5.3 WAR per 162 games vs. 2-1/2 years of Soto and his 5.9 WAR per 162?
If you dealt those players for each other, the only question is, who would the Nats have to add in order to persuade the Jays to deal Kirk?
Yes Jack everyone would there is not one single GMs in the history of baseball that wouldn’t make that trade.
I really like Kirk but let’s be real he isn’t Soto. You throw Soto into that lineup with that protection and I shudder to think what he would do offensively. He simply gets nothing to hit right now he has no protection and basically he is swinging at pitches he would not need to with adequate protection in the order. Juan Soto is a special offensive talent with a rare combination of Power and patience at the plate. He’s only 23 and will probably only get better but if the other team won’t pitch to you it’s tough going.
Bruin: I disagree. A lot of reasons NOT to make that trade.
So you are crazy too Cosmo and wouldn’t trade Kirk straight up for Soto. I am here to guarantee there is not one GM in the game wouldn’t make that trade and giggle there ass off about it. Kirk is a good player but put Soto in that Bluejays lineup and watch his numbers soar also watch Vladdy’s numbers soar Soto would make every hitter in that lineup more effective. He would strike fear in the opposing teams heart. Having Vlad and Soto back to back ridiculous.
I for one doubt your psychic abilities. Your guarantee doesn’t really carry any weight.
My Thoughts are this.
1st, the trade HAS to hurt. It’s the only way to get Soto away from the Nats.
2nd. I’m not sold Bichette is going to be as good as most people think. His D is shakey at times and you’re gonna have to pay him close to Soto money anyway, I can see it turning out poorly for TO. Plus, Orelvis Martinez looks legit. An immediate plug in
3rd, you can’t have 2 C as good as Moreno and Kirk. It’s actually a waste. Sure the DH thing is working for now. But do you really want to cycle two C through the DH and C spot daily. Springer is gonna be a full time DH in 2 years, he needs 25% of the time there now. Cash in on Kirk before he comes down to earth a bit.
4th, Groshans future isn’t with the Jays. Lourdes is probably more attractive to the Nats then Teo, one of them has to go because they won’t be a 4th OF. Soto supplant Springer in CF and keep him in the field an extra year
Was just trying to use Logic and a little foreshadowing to put together something fair
No this wouldn’t be my initial offer to the Nats, it would be the absolute max I’d offer before not doing business anymore. Obviously I’d hope they’d jump at a lesser offer
Jack you want proof of not being pitched too? Here’s a fun Soto fact he has more walks then hits. He has the lowest strikes thrown to percentage in baseball and the quality of strikes thrown to him are the best in baseball ie he has seen the lowest strikes in the center of the plate. It is only going to get worse as the season goes along unless he gets traded which is doubtful since highly likely no one wants to pay the freight.
Mostly. The biggest mistake fans make is thinking that a superstar cannot be replaced. You might have an issue replacing a true ace SP, but everyone else can be replaced.
My guess is that Soto is good for a 12 WAR/2 seasons. Great, but what is Bichette worth over 3 seasons? That alone has to be in the range of 12 WAR. When you start throwing in extra pieces, and then of course, paying Soto, the team getting the kids usually wins.
And I am not saying you can’t trade for a superstar if you think you are WS bound, but I doubt you ever recover the value.
Kirk has 4.4 WAR in 3 seasons. Over the same period Soto has 11.7 WAR.
More realistic package , Lourdes , Moreno, Espinal , Groshans or Tiedman
And Washington would pass
Not even close
That’s why Soto is so hard to trade for now.
Jays aren’t trading Bichette for a corner Outfielder. Corner Outfielders are a dime a dozen in this league, Short Stops who are solid defensively and hit for power, not so much.
Dime a dozen lmao tell that to Chicago White Sox fans
I don’t think the Jays are trading Bichette either but Soto is not a dime a dozen player he’s special. It’s why with this much control left he isn’t getting traded. I’d bet in that Toronto lineup he’d have a .990 or higher ops. No one will pitch to the guy now and that’s a fact.
Let the DH hold out for more than $350m, if he must.
Meanwhile he’s had all of one full season where his OPS+ was higher than Paul Goldschmidt’s career OPS+. The Nats didn’t dodge a bullet, exactly, but they’re not likely to end up regretting Soto’s decision, either.
soto’s rejection of the Nationals’ offer will end up being one of the biggest blunders in the history of sports contracts. In reality, he’s nothing more than a glorified DH- he plays an unimportant position (and plays it poorly, in addition to that), he can’t steal bases, and aside from last season, he has averaged a ‘staggering’ 4 WAR per season and has never posted more than 5 WAR in a season. Now look at him- an .812 OPS to go along with poor defense (as usual) and poor stolen base numbers (as usual), and on pace for around 4 WAR this year (not even All Star level production). What a clown.
Imagine that skill set, having a team throw $350m at you, and saying ‘no.’
If it’s not that he’s desperate to get out of DC (and who would not be?), then it must be that Boras whispered lies and more lies to him. Imagine turning that down.
And of course he dresses it up with the lie that it’s about “looking out for the players who are next in line after him”, when it’s obviously really just about soto’s evil lust for an even bigger pile of money.
Ask Kris Bryant how well turning down big money extensions worked out.
I have to imagine the rumor about Soto being offered 13 years and $425 million is false because I’m not sure Boras would have said no to that kind of money. You can whisper in a players ear about getting more money all you want but all it takes is a torn ACL/MCL or a torn hamstring or anything of the sort and it all goes away
KB was lucky to get what he got, too. I’d be really interested in knowing what the next highest offer a team had for him was.
“aside from last season, he has averaged a ‘staggering’ 4 WAR per season and has never posted more than 5 WAR in a season.”
“Aside from last season” . . . when he was 22 years old? Talk about cherry-picking.
And how convenient to set your cutoff point at “never posted more than 5 WAR in a season,” when he accumulated exactly 5.0 bWAR in 2019 (and 5.7 fWAR).
He entered the league in 2018. He’s 9th in fWAR since then, tied with Freddie Freeman, who has 359 more plate appearances.
You talk about an .812 OPS as if that’s bad (it’s .816 now). That’s the second-highest OPS on his team. Unless Josh Bell bats behind him, he has no protection. Since 2020, he walks more than he strikes out. He has the highest BB% and sixth-best BB/K.
Put him in a lineup where they have to pitch to him and we’ll see how he does.
Oh, wait . . . we already saw that, when Trea Turner, Josh Bell, Josh Harrison and Kyle Schwarber were in the lineup — and Soto owned a .999 OPS, a 177 OPS+, a 163 wRC+, a 7.1 bWAR and a 7.0 fWAR.
The reason he’s valuable, besides his plate production, is his age. Ten years into a long-term contract he’d be only 33 years old.
-The fact that he was 22 is irrelevant and don’t know where the ‘cherry picking’ thing comes from. I was doing the opposite of cherry picking with that statement. The point stands.
-Set it at 5 WAR because 5 WAR is considered the beginning of All Star production range and by coincidence, he posted exactly 5 WAR one season. The point is that he has had All Star level production 2 out his 4 legitimate seasons, and 1 of those was barely All-Star level
-So he has been the 9th most valuable player in baseball (assuming that stat is for all of MLB and not just the NL)- not worth a record setting contract.
-An .812 OPS is good, that is all
-Mike Trout (and others) somehow manage to post superstar seasons at the plate during seasons when they’re not in a strong lineup. Don’t buy it.
-Again, he’s a glorified DH who has a limited skillset (only good at the plate) and who has only produced true star level production 1 season (7 WAR, which is the beginning of superstar level production. It’s not like he had a season like 5 of Trout’s 9+ WAR, or Harper’s 2015, or Betts’ 2016 and 2018, or Ohtani’s last year, etc).
He’s not worth it. He should be traded at a good time.
Actually his age is very relevant in what he is worth.
Anyone who thinks differently doesn’t understand the game very well.
lol dude that post started bad and just kept getting worse
Whichever team pays up will regret it.
Trade him, Bell and Cruz and move the focus to 2025.
At the aforementioned 400 million, you can easily get 3 or 4 high quality (all star caliber) players for the price of 1 Juan Soto.
For how long? Every one of the top 15 players in annual salary this year is making at least $30m. It seems unlikely that you could sign four All-Star caliber free agents on four-year contracts.
Methinks he wants to break the $500m barrier.
And can people PLEASE stop saying that this is about ANYTHING but money?
He’s having a down year so now he is walking back the year to year thing?
He’s not having a down year. Pitchers who face him are having a collective down year in the area of strike-throwing.
If he tests free agency, the Angels will sign him to a 10-year 500MM deal
This will be Farhan Zaidi’s first big splash! I know, I’m crazy, but I can dream right?
I applaud him for wanting to stay.
My wish…. If He gets $500 millions, I just need a new Jordan snickers 9 1/2 W. Tks Soto.
The price is what the market will bear
He should take a page out of Joe DiMaggio’s negotiation playbook and let the Nationals know he is now a “Partner” in the franchise. Annual salary wont make a difference as long as he gets his 10% ownership share
I would love to have him on my team but not at the salary he wants. Anytime you’re talking 10, 12, 14-year contracts, if it’s my team I want them out. rarely do these contracts of such great length as Soto will want work out for the team. The only time I’ve approved my team going in that direction has been for Ronald Acuna Jr. and only then because it was such a team friendly deal.
.225 Soto: Hey guys, let’s talk extension, okay?
No one involved in these negotiations suffers from the misconceptions about baseball stats that you do. He’s actually hitting very well.
139 OPS+ and improving this season and 157 OPS+ for his career so far.
Yeah, sure Soto’s open to an extension now. His greed took over when the Nats offered him $350 million this spring, and now with the down year, he’s probably worried that he won;t be offered that amount again. If I were the Nats, I would offer him $200 million as a start. He is a full class below Betts and Trout.
Just like the Bible says about screwing your own sister, Don’t.
Last time I checked you can’t drive a guy in from second with a walk, just saying this guy walks so much it bloats his OPS. I don’t care about walks when I’m talking about my 3 or 4 hitter I want him to be driving in runs. The batting average doesn’t worry me as he’s a .300 hitter he’s just having an off season but his RBI totals should be higher and that lineup is not that bad. I get it he has a great eye but maybe use the eye to make more contact with men on instead of using it to walk in those spots. His bat is too good to take 145 walks in a season.
You don’t understand how baseball works. Players don’t choose to walk or not. What do you want them to do? Foul off ball four on purpose to prolong the at bat? Ridiculous. RBIs are a stat that assigns full credit to a batter even though the batter doesn’t deserve full credit. It thus can’t be used the way you want to use it. This is basic, elementary stuff yet you still choose to wallow in old-school ignorance. What a world.
Can’t drive in runners that are not on base. Have you seen the Nats hitters in front of Soto? He has had just 182 men on base when he came to bat vs NL average of 207. By way of comparison, Alonso has had 229 baserunners in 13 fewer at bats than Soto. Have you noticed that they are only throwing Soto strikes 37% of the time with men on base? The 55% overall is the lowest in the league. 37% is Bonds-like. They would rather walk in a run than pitch to him. Again, by way of comparison, Alonso is having strikes thrown to him at a 58.7% clip with men on base and 60.7% of the time overall.
contract negotiations should be private and out of the public domain. maximum length should be 5 years.
Why should it be private? This is baseball, the flow of info to media and fans sustains it.
So should baseball teams be limited to 5 year deals for TV and other revenue?
Boras advises Soto, like all his big name clients, to hold out for free agency. In the meantime Boras works to extract as much value as he can from the Nationals for his other clients. Saying the Nationals need to build a team that Soto wants to commit to. By paying more Boras clients.
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I think he leaves the Nationals. He’ll get more than he wws offered. I think he goes to NY