The Cardinals approach the trade deadline in an unfamiliar position as sellers. Sitting 12 games under .500 and in last place in the NL Central, St. Louis joins the Rockies, Nationals and Pirates as the only National League clubs at least 10 games out of a playoff spot.
President of baseball operations John Mozeliak admitted last week the Cards were turning their attention towards 2024. He expanded upon that in a wide-ranging conversation with the St. Louis beat this afternoon (YouTube link via Charlie Marlow of 590 The Fan). Cards’ fans will want to check out the complete media session.
Mozeliak conceded there wasn’t much hope of avoiding a sell-off of short-term pieces at this stage of the season. “Does performance (over the next two weeks) change our direction? Probably not at this point. Where we are in the standings, it’s going to make it very difficult to change that.” He left open the possibility of something like an eight-game win streak altering the equation but it’s clear the front office anticipates parting with a number of veteran players over the next couple weeks.
The front office leader restated they’re prioritizing trade targets who could help the big league team in the near future. Mozeliak indicated they’d look for players who’d be MLB factors by 2024-25 and was rather blunt about their positional desires.
“We’re going to treat the trading deadline as ’pitching, pitching, pitching,'” he said. “That’s not to say we’re going to ignore a position player that may be uber-great … but the goal would be to address as much pitching as possible.”
It isn’t hard to understand why. The rotation has been St. Louis’ biggest problem area. Cardinals’ starters entered play Monday ranked 25th in MLB with a 4.64 ERA. That’s obviously insufficient to begin with and it’s only likely to thin out over the next few weeks. Jordan Montgomery and Jack Flaherty are impending free agents who both seem likely to change uniforms by August 1. Adam Wainwright isn’t a trade candidate but he’s retiring at season’s end.
That’s three vacancies arising before 2024. Only Miles Mikolas seems a lock for next year’s season-opening rotation. Steven Matz is under contract for two more seasons but has bounced between the starting staff and the bullpen this year. Matthew Liberatore has been tagged for a 6.39 ERA over eight MLB starts. Righty Jake Woodford wasn’t much more effective in an early-season rotation look. Former first round draftee Zack Thompson could compete for a ’24 rotation spot but has one MLB start to his name.
While St. Louis will scour the trade market for upper level starting pitching, they’ll also have to dip into free agency next winter. Mozeliak conceded it’d be nearly impossible to envision the Cards not adding a free agent starter and indicated the organization should have enough financial flexibility to attack the open market.
Interestingly, he indicated the organization’s approach to pitching acquisition could be a little different moving forward. St. Louis has prioritized ground-ball pitchers in recent seasons, relying on an excellent infield defense to support a pitch-to-contact staff. That hasn’t worked this year. St. Louis has allowed an MLB-worst .324 batting average on grounders. That’s a huge change from seasons past, one Mozeliak admitted could impact the way the front office approaches things.
The team is likely to prioritize “more swing-and-miss versus ground-ball types,” he said. Only the Rockies and Royals have gotten a lower strikeout rate out of their rotation than St. Louis’ 18.4% clip. The bullpen has been more effective, ranking 12th with a 24.5% strikeout percentage.
A few members of the relief corps are also likely to be on the way out. The Cards already designated lefty Génesis Cabrera for assignment this morning. Mozeliak called that a “change of scenery” decision, noting that Cabrera is hopeful of landing a higher-leverage role than the one he’d received in St. Louis. Jordan Hicks and Chris Stratton seem likely to be dealt strictly because of their contractual situations. Both are impending free agents and having quality seasons, with the flamethrowing Hicks standing out as a particularly desirable rental trade chip.
There aren’t any true rentals on the position player side, although the Cards seem likely to opt for a $1MM buyout over a $12.5MM club option on shortstop Paul DeJong. A middle infield logjam also comprising Tommy Edman, Brendan Donovan, Nolan Gorman and eventually top prospect Masyn Winn makes a DeJong trade seem likely.
Left fielder Tyler O’Neill has seemed a potential trade candidate amidst a season decimated by back issues. Mozeliak didn’t expressly rule that out but seemed to cast some doubt on that possibility today, saying the Cardinals anticipated playing O’Neill as their everyday left fielder. He has been on the injured list since May 4 but could be reinstated before tomorrow’s game against Miami.
O’Neill is playing this season on a $4.95MM salary. The club can retain him for one more season via arbitration. St. Louis has enough outfield depth that O’Neill could be a non-tender candidate next winter, though it’s also possible they deal another outfielder to clear space. Star rookie Jordan Walker isn’t going anywhere, and Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch wrote last week the Cards were telling other clubs they had no intention of moving Lars Nootbaar.
That arguably leaves Dylan Carlson as an odd man out. The former top prospect is hitting .243/.350/.376 over 203 trips to the plate. He reaches arbitration for the first time next winter and isn’t eligible for free agency until after the 2026 campaign. Mark Feinsand of MLB.com indicated this evening (on Twitter) the Yankees could have some interest in Carlson as they search for outfield help.
Of course, there are no bigger names the Cardinals could put on the trade market than their star corner infield tandem of Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado. Mozeliak declined to declare either player categorically untouchable but strongly downplayed the possibility of moving either. “I don’t have any intentions of trading anybody like them,” he said. “If you’re willing to listen on anything, you have to understand (anything’s possible), but I doubt that would happen.” As he subsequently noted, both players have full no-trade rights, and it seems very unlikely a St. Louis team gearing back up for 2024 would want to part with either of its top two position players regardless.
Loving all these Cardinal articles
How the heck is ONeill gonna play left field everyday after all the nonsense that has went on this year? I just don’t see it. ONeill is my boy but I still say he’s getting dealt and soon.
What’s Carlson worth at this point? I don’t even know.
If the comment section from fans like the Guardians, Orioles and Mariners is any indication of how the GMs view things I truly would be fine not making any trades at all. But I believe it’s not a good example of what GMs are thinking and some teams are going to want to win.
Ready for trades. Team has won 3 in a row I can’t say I am happy about that I am worried we will decide not to sell.
Trade future multiple MVP and HOFer Lars Nootbar for a kings ransom.
This feels like pandering to the lowest denominator for likes.
Is that what this is?
If you think he’s overrated stop talking about him. That’s a start….
I agree. I keep reading he’s “untouchable”. He’s our 3rd best defensive CF behind Edman and Carlson. He will be lucky to get 20hr/10sb in a season, and I don’t see him ever batting .300. He is a .250 guy who has a good eye so he can get obp at .350 and is meant for a corner. Everyone acts like we could get Paul Skenes with this guy. Sell high Mo
Last time I checked I think it was last night trade simulator had Nootbaar at a 57. I think that is very overrated I think he’s worth about half that.
He’s under control for 4 more years after 2023. He’s a lefty bat which is a team need still. I just don’t think it makes any sense to trade him. There are 15 other guys I would trade before him.
But do we have 15 guys other teams actually want at this point? I’m sure a 110 wrc corner OF isn’t that difficult to find.
I could name 10
Montgomery
Hicks
Flaherty
Stratton
ONeill
Herrera
DeJong
Donovan or Gorman
Baker or Burleson
Verhagen
Those are all guys I think should be traded as long as it’s for a fair return.
Fair enough, kind of reaching towards the bottom though. Not sure if the last 3 are worth much. I like Burleson but he hasn’t preformed this year, mostly because I think he doesn’t play, should be in AAA until an everyday spot opens. O’Neill might be tough sell too right now. I’d rather keep Donovan and Gorman since they can play the IF. Don’t think any of them have more value then Noot right now, and he’s the most replaceable and most coveted apparently
Aside from Donovan and Gorman yeah Nootbaar has more value than anyone. I just don’t see why the Cardinals would or should trade him. He’s not amazing but he’s a good solid player.
If Nootbaar was actually worth the 57 trade ranking I saw on trade simulator sure I would pack his bags myself. But I don’t think he actually is worth that much.
The needing of a “lefty bat” has always been a overstated thing You need guys that can hit rh pitching whether they are rh hitters or left handed hitters. As a matter of fact rh hitters are typically less susceptible to same handed pitching.
spot on
noot is just another guy
I think he’s a solid player. No nothing special but worth playing.
You have a point. Last year, Mo deemed Dylan Carlson “untouchable” in trades. Now? Olli said he will lose at-bats the rest of the way.
Hell, Nootbaar could face the same thing next year if he gets into Olli’s doghouse.
Marmol needs to go. He’s no good.
Pitching pitching pitching.
No crap
It’s not really the pitching though. The organization had one of the best pitching coaches on the planet in Dave Duncan, who taught Yadier Molina a tremendous amount. Their issue was trying to sign backup catchers for years instead of giving people like Knizner and Herrera the time for Molina to mentor them. Now that Molina is retired, the pitching staff is seeing what happens when you lose your catcher…
So here is my proposal:
Cards send:
Goldy
Noot
Tommy
Flaherty
Knizner
To the Marlins for:
Luzardo
Max Meyer
Sixto Sanchez
Avisail Garcia
I’d like them to look at a Montgomery for Jack Leiter deal with Texas. Leiter has been absolutely horrible, which is probably the only reason he’d be available but his upside is exactly the type of pitcher the Cardinals need….and exactly the type of pitcher other clubs almost never trade. Both clubs could offset the amount of risk they’d be taking by expanding the deal if necessary, but that’s the type of guy I’d go after.
I agree actually looked into this recently and didn’t think the Rangers needed another starter. But I LOVE the Lieter idea. He’s one of those big upside guys we should be targeting like Meyer in Miami or Mize in Detroit.
“If the comment section from fans like the Guardians, Orioles and Mariners is any indication of how the GMs view things I truly would be fine not making any trades at all.”
It seems Cardinals fans should be included in this as well with there illusions of grandeur.
*their*
I think the term is delusions not illusions.
What have I said that doesn’t make sense? I understand that both teams need to benefit from a trade. I use trade simulator to run my ideas past an invited source. What’s the problem?
He’s talking about Stevie.
That is possible lol.
I know. A top pitching prospect for a 2 month rental? How often has it happened recently? Jack has elite stuff. Just needs some control. If they don’t feel they can develop it they will find someone who thinks they can. Most trades are quantity. Ones that have a top 100 prospect is usually a A ball kid. They liked Jack so much they passed on the SS and gave him what 8 million. Not sure they are ready to bail yet and it won’t be for a rental unless it’s Ohtani or something.
Leiter for Montgomery and Hicks is getting pretty close to fair. And the Cardinals can definitely offer both.
But he’s not that close to the majors. They really need guys who can fill a starting spot next season.
We could be talking mid 2024. That’s not too bad.
DonOsbourne;
I’ll keep writing it……
MLB is now about organizations – the same way the NFL and NBA are. All franchises have systems.
The Cardinals….THE CADINALS….with a century-long history of usually being able to get the best out of their pitchers are lost. It’s one thing for a few pitchers to have a bad year. It’s another for literally the entire staff to.
Pitching systems include pitchers now throwing every day, with coaches keeping track of every pitch. They gather analytical data and watch video the way the NFL has young coaches up all night breaking down game film and grading each player depending on game situation on each play. Every team in MLB does this to one extent or another.
It doesn’t matter who the Cardinals sign or trade for. Those pitchers will be put into the Cardinals pitching system – which includes a starting catcher that can’t call/run a game, play defense, and will will follow the Cardinals “intricate” (I believe that’s the word Mozeliak used earlier in the season to describe Willson Contreras’ troubles and why he was being benched for a bit) sysem.
This is not something that’s only happened in 2023. But it has been modified for the worse with Yadi no longer behind the plate and Maddox in Dallas.
These Cardinals are the NL’s Yankees. Mozeliak’s organization mirrors Hal Cashman’s….
A history of awful trades and signings. Relacing an above average manager with a lackey. Overpay for expensive veterans giving them long-term contracts that prove to be bad investments but brecause of heir salary they have to keep playing them. Publicly pushing their young prospects that they can’t develop into anything more than placeholders. Having managers that show no sense of independence or making many smart decisions. Most importantly – living off the reputation of the franchise before they took it over.
The Rays acquire a so-so player they like and the guy becomes more productive than he’s ever been. The Cardinals acquire a player they like. After a spurt they start messing with his game and the guy winds up a part-time player and not producing at the level he was when first acquired. The team doesn’t know how to bring along players or work with them to understand what they have to do on the field to win. I have to believe that MLB pitchers are in fear of being traded to the Cardinals – like position players going to the Angels…..
a place to get misused, suffer injuries, and have your career die.
Carlson and flaterty for Schmidt and better from the yankess
IMHO, you are underestimating the Cards rotation. Wainright has aged out, but Mikolas, Monty, Matz & Flaherty have been pitching pretty well. As a RS fan, I would gladly trade for any of the four, depending on cost (Matz would require some $$$).
The biggest issue for the Cards has been their record in one-run games (9-19). Had they split those 28 games, they would still have a shot at 1st.
“The biggest issue for the Cards has been their record in one-run games (9-19).”
JoeBrady;
B I N G O
That is a team that doesn’t know how to win, with a manager that can’t run a game.
Agreed that the Cardinals rotation is not remotely as bad as they’ve been pitching. Let’s revisit some of those pitchers next year as they get with other teams
I think the one-run games are strictly variance. In 2021, they were 26-19, and in 2022, they were 26-17.
That said, while one-run are mostly random, I find that the teams with the better 8th/9th inning RPs are better equipped to protect a one-run lead. Last year, Helsley & Gallegos combined for a 2.11 ERA. This year, it is 3.86. In fact, the entire BP took a step back from being #11 in ERA to being #25.
Did I read that they had a new pitching coach?
You’re insane. Have you watched them play with your own eyes?!
If you have and still think they have played well enough to be a 1st place team than you don’t think well.
Throw your stat magazine out. The team in person plays badly. The SP has constantly given opponents leads in the first few innings. The Cards are always playing catch up.
Too many part time platoon like players in/out of the lineup.
This team needs an overhaul. Wouldn’t win any playoff series against true SP #1 & 2’s.
The Orioles have plenty of prospects and vine ripened to acquire Nolan Arenado
But no pitchers, The Cards, like the O’s, need pitchers.
Jack & Monty for Hjesterd
I would do that deal. Kjerstad or however you spell his name looks like a stud to me.
I would do Montgomery for Beavers too.
We need to extend our bullpen
However, the Orioles need a legit bat and experience Arenado has both
I would be Content with the rotation, but I would love a bat
Still though, it might be wishful thinking
Because i don’t know if Arenado would want to be traded and of the Cardinals would be willing to trade him
Yeah wishful thinking Arenado don’t want to play in The Wire, as well as you got nothing we want did you not read. 100% you won’t see the orioles and cardinals unless you are wanting our SPs or like Dejong.
Yeah the pitching isn’t there but they have outfielders. Guys who can play center and that’s a need for the Cardinals.
I gotta believe multiple trades are happening.
I am about done talking trades with Orioles fans. Last guy was telling me he didn’t want anything except Ohtani.
Arenado is not available. If you got a suggestion that makes sense I will listen but again my patience is wearing thin.
I am sorry your patience is thin
I don’t want Ohtani
The Orioles have a lot of quality prospects
Time will tell as to what haplens6
Arenado not available. And I swear other Orioles fans were telling me the lineup is just fine and the big need is pitching.
Montgomery for Beavers. That’s my idea and that makes sense. You can have Stratton too.
Unless someone is a fan of a team with deep pockets and a realistic chance to resign Ohtani at seasons end, nobody should want to see their farm gutted for him as a pure rental. I’m a Brewers fan. There’s literally 0 chance the Brewers would be able to resign him. I wouldn’t want to gut the farm to get him because as good as he is, he’s not going to guarantee anyone a championship. Only Yankees, Giants, Dodgers, Mariners fans for sure should want to trade for him. Because outside of his west coast preference, only the Yankees are a team deep enough in money to potentially resign him. Because the Mets will likely just wait until the offseason to open up that pocketbook again since they’re likely not going to be in the race. But really, why would someone want to absolutely blow up their farm to land Ohtani outside of having a chance to resign him after the season.
I remember when the Brewers traded for Sabathia. My best friend is a Brewers fan and we had some of the best times of our lives going to games and fighting for a championship.
Do you remember that?
I also remember last year when the Brewrs were a contender and decided to trade Hader. And then they weren’t a contender anymore.
Yes it would make more sense for Ohtani to go to the Giants. But come on man. That year with Sabathia was the only time I can remember when the Brewers were legit contenders.
For the millionth time the Orioles will not be trading for offense. Henderson, Westburg and Urias are all 3b eligible and Mayo is still in the minors. If anything, expect a minor selloff, most likely any one of Urias, Mateo and Frazier for pitching prospects. The Orioles might be contenders this year but it’s part of a longer assessment period.
O’Neill or Carlson to Yankees for marinaccio
Garcia
Arozerena
Alcantara
Gallen
Umm
Either way, I think Gorman is as good as gone. Which I’m ok with
Off to the Tigers for some of their pitching (not Skubal).
Pitching, pitching, pitching….if you would have addressed this in the offseason like everyone knew you should have, this wouldn’t be a problem right now.
So you gonna make any suggestions or just sit around and tell everyone how smart you are?
Mo should print out your post and put it on his bathroom mirror.
Does Burleson not fit into the Cards future plans? Dude seems like he can hit. A bit over-aggresive, but definitely a major league bat. Is he on the trade block too?
I hope not
You want Burleson? You sure???
I’m not a Cards fan, I just watch a lot of their games, and Burleson seems like he’ll be an MLB regular. Considering he’s a rookie, is he having that bad a season? I mean, it takes most of these guys a year or two to figure it out, right? Curious why Cards fans are out on him.
I like Burly. He’s some what limited, but I agree he is going to hit.
Well he’s not hitting well. He’s not fielding well. And he certainly isn’t a good baserunner.
Besides that he’s great.
Seriously I don’t think he has any value at all at this point.
You forget he might one out best 3 arms out of the bullpen this year
Fans may not like him because they don’t research prospects and because they do not have a multi-dimensionable view of ball players. Most fans want guys who strike batters out and hit home runs. There is so much more to baseball and casual fans don’t have time to check the stats of look at all the nuances of the game.
There are numerous lengthy articles that talk about players, teams, baseball in general where you can become knowledgeable about all aspects of the game. Who has time for that stuff, some of it is boorrring. Me, I have time, I am retired and have been an ardent fan since age 7, 67 years. We can’t and shouldn’t expect fans to know much about our national sport. That means we are going to get a LOT of idiot comments about articles.
Oh well.
I’d move him without hesitation….but again, for equal value. His defense is subpar, and we have a glut of OF.
The real question is: can this organization accurately assess the value of its own players and the value of other organization’s near ready talent? Will we get equal value back in any trade of a long term asset?
I think Burleson is one of those guys they’d like to keep. With their best hitters hitting right-handed, they really want to keep the young lefty hitters like Noot, Gorman, Donovan, and Burly.
Of course, Burleson is obviously fourth on that list, and they would surely trade him if the price is right.
The Seattle Mariners have young pitching that will be MLB ready in late 2023 in Emerson Hancock, 24, 6’4″, 215. He’s (career minors) 20-8 with 3.93 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 223 K’s in 222 innings.
Prelander Berroa is a flamethrower who’s recently converted to relief. Career minors: 21-12, 3.62, with 466 K’s in 355 innings.
The Mariners would likely strongly consider Brendan Donovan and a lower-level minor leaguer in return for something like that package. The need a 2B with a good BA, good OBP and some years of control.
Hancock is very interesting
Donovan for Hancock?
No
Run that by trade simulator they will say what I am saying that’s not a fair trade.
I agree Donovan makes a lot of sense for the Mariners. But I wouldn’t trade him for Miller let alone Hancock. Hancock looks like a bust.
I agree Donovan is too much to give up, but I wouldn’t mind getting Hancock in a much smaller deal. He’s got the pedigree and build, isn’t far removed from reasonable success at the AA level, and again represents the type of gamble we need to take to get front line starters with upside.
I’d trade him for both though.
Maybe for both
This is where I would go with this.
Trade for Cease (Gorman plus)
Trade Walker/TON for Perez (MIA)
Trade Jack & Monty for 2024 arms
2024 Staff
Cease
Perez
Mikolas
Hence
???
But the Marlins aren’t likely to trade Eury for Jordan. That works for us. It doesn’t solve a problem for them.
3B problem solved.
Walker is a 3B
Hence will have 150 professional innings pitched total, over three years if he hits 100ip this year. I don’t think they’re doing that. It would be cool to just do it like the Marlins did with Perez this year, but I don’t think the Cardinals will do that. Then again this is the same team that keeps putting out one of the worst defensive outfielders in baseball night after night, that never played a game above AA.(until his demotion this year)
I think they will, they are backed in a corner pitching wise. And teams know that.
Marlins aren’t trading Perez. Key piece.
Sox won’t be interested in Gorman as a headliner. Doesn’t move the needle at all.
Maybe your needle is broken then.
Not likely. Cardinals fans will either be complaining about the returns or gm will say the offers weren’t there. Not just Cardinals fans. Most fans of most teams. It’s human nature to over value your own guys.
It is broken
Right. Just saying. I think a second basemen with ok defense that hits 30+ HRs a year from the left side and has years of control might move the needle a tad for some GMs.
I guess if there is a gm that loves hrs so much they will over look his other obvious flaws. He definitely has value but I think they can do better for Cease.
2 best trade “fits” are SEA and MIA
Should be fun boys !
I like Arizona and Baltimore too but yeah for sure agreed.
Yeah. I should if added Balt and AZ
I’m not sure Balt has pitching to give.
AZ has the pitching and maybe a true CF in Tomas who would work.
Off the top of my head
Pfaadt & Tomas
For Jack & Monty.
Makes sense
They are not doing that.
You get where I am going. Framework.
Pitching holds keys.
We have 2 SP that will get dealt.
We can get good value if not great value
Baltimore has outfielders who can play center. Arizona definitely does too. I think we can get the pitching from Seattle or Miami or maybe Detroit but they are a distant third imo.
Fletcher for Flaherty would work for me.
Beavers for Montgomery
We could do both those deals. There is room in the outfield now and also later because I think Walker goes to 1b after Goldschmidt retires.
Alek Thomas yes I like him too. And Jud Fabian. Lefty outfielder is a better fit I think
I’m not sure Beavers cost. I think would cost more.
I’m sure fletcher can be had. If they are interested.
The Orioles have too many outfielders just like the Diamondbacks do. Those are the teams for center field help which I see as the second need behind of course pitching.
Ready for some trades.
I like Beavers as well.
Not sure they make that kinda move given cost.
So, losing Yadi and Pujols in the off-season has nothing to do with this rudderless ship? Yadi had the trust of every pitcher, which is now gone. Should have went all-in for Murphy or else see what Herrera had to offer full time behind the dish. Contreras signing was awful.
Pujols and Yadi were strong voices in the clubhouse, who is that now? Need to buy out the Angels 10-year services contract on Pujols and then have him spend Spring Training working with hitters.
Game management also doesn’t look right with this team, Oli was a good bench coach, not quite ready for Prime Time, imo.
Should be interesting off-season. Skipping the 5 games I usually hit every year, this team is not worth the 9 hr round trip for any game.
Don’t Waino, Goldy, and Arenado run a Bible group for the whole team? It comes up a lot in the cards magazine.
Whoever the Cardinals trade, please throw in the TV announcers!
Jim Edmonds is so awful. The rest are fine. I really like Ricky Horton but he’s radio.
Ricky makes me feel very smart.
They really don’t have much that is going to net them great gains for next year in trades.
Holding on to Hicks and finding someone desperate for that last piece the way the Cubs were with Chapman may yet yield the biggest acquisition at the deadline. People who say “Oh, XYZ would never trade a prospect of that magnitude for ABC” need only look at that deal.
Yeah, because there are so many MLB teams looking to trade good, inexpensive controllable pitching….what planet is Mozeliak living on right now?
You have a 2-3 year window with Goldy and Arenado..sign FA (Snell), swap a Carlson for Lynn and have CWS pick up some salary or take DeJong back and get Scherzer.
Snell, while occasionally elite, is a hard guy to cheer for. I can’t wait for Flaherty to be gone. It would be rough to replace him with a clone in Snell. He’s not a very likeable guy and he’s unpredictable from year to year.
How does Nootbaar have more upside on a losing team than the younger Carlson?
Noot is a left-handed bat with power.
Carlson is a switch-hitter, but he has struggled against right-handed pitching. (That’s like 80-percent of the league.)
Carlson’s slugging percentage has dropped off by 60 points over the past two seasons, when it should be going in the other direction as he’s learned the league and pitchers. Carlson’s defense combined with 22 HR power is a lot more palatable with a .250 BA than Carlson with 8 HR power..
Cards should absolutely move Goldy if the price is right as well. He’d be the best bat on the market, they have a ready made 1B in Walker, or if they hate Contreras behind the plate so much he can play some first. Goldschmidt would get you the arm/s that you are looking for. The offense is not the problem. I still have no idea why Dylan Carlson has struggled for playing time or why Tommy Edman has been playing outfield. Or why Walker never played OF in the minors and they just stuck him out there. Or why Gorman is struggling for at bats. A lot of their decisions don’t seem to make sense as a whole
McCarthy Christian Walker and Ryne Nelson for Goldy and flaherty.
Cards want and need near ready major league arms. Of sat by himself wouldn’t get it done. Cards have no need for extra position players
I don’t hate the idea of trading Goldschmidt back to the DBacks. I think he would accept a trade there and I think it makes some sense.
But I don’t want any of those guys you mentioned.
Manning & Wentz for Carlson? Not enough? Throw in Madden.
I want Mize
Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the mouth. Mo’s mouth has been writing NSF checks for at least two seasons. The number of terrible decisions needed to fall to the worst team in one of the worst divisions in MLB history is staggering. Any more miscalculations at this deadline and offseason could bury the Redbirds for the next 5 years.
Mo is so bad at this. anyone expecting big things this trade deadline are going to be greatly disappointed. Young, MLB experienced, cost controlled, front of the rotation pitchers aren’t available. What gets moved at the deadlines are veteran pitchers having bounce back years or veterans on on expiring contracts in the next 1.5 years. The other group is players who aren’t likely to debut for another 1.5 years or more. So if you go after veterans your taking a risk on their age and health as we as putting yourself in the same position next year with a rotation full of 4th starters.
I 100% believe the trade deadline will expire and we will all say “that’s it?”. We will get the same explanation from Mo about potential deals but the pieces required were just to great because they are key pieces to the cardinals future plans. Because Mozaliak believes everyone should give him what he wants in his terms and is annually shocked at the other GM responses. Grossly over evaluates his capital.
If anything happens for a player in the rotation in 2024 it will be one or two of German Márquez, Domingo German, Lance Lynn, Shane. I ever, Robbie Ray, Eduardo Rodriguez, Mike Clevinger or Tarik Skubal. Expect for Skubal are FA after 2024. The most likely thing I see happening is Mo make a huge mistake and trades for a 39 year old Max Scherzer. He’s always shown he will eventually get his man crushes and the Mets need to shed payroll to get in the Ohtani sweepstakes.
Mo probably believes he can get a big fish in the FA class of the offseason, it his track record shows players don’t want to sign with him. The bell of the ball Aaron Nola probably re-signs with Philly. The others are mostly old veteran risks.
What Mo needs to do is focus on 2025. Use this off season to get high potential prospects in big A ball that can debut in 2025. Tex has a few Brock Porter, Jack Lieter and Kumar Rocker. Toronto has Ricky Tiedermann. He also needs to address the needs for 1B in 2025 and the outfield. The club has never said anything about Walker taking over first, he could be worse there then the outfield. If Walker moves, it’s another spot in the outfield to fill in addition to O’Niells spot. They need quantities and quantity of high potential boom or bust A ball player to stock the farm and hope a few reach their ceiling or can be flipped again in the next year or two.
If he thinks he can do enough to build and 2024 WS contender he is not only going to still have a bad team in 2024 but he is also going deplete what few assets he does have for the wrong return this year. that will cripple the organzation and turn a 2-3 year turn around into 7-8
Something is going on with the Cardinals pitching coaches or philosophy this year, even in the minors. Zack Thompson looked like a really good lefty bullpen piece, but he has a 9+ ERA with more walks than strikeouts since being demoted to be “stretched out.” I’m not sure Bob Gibson could’ve pitched well on today’s team. It appears to be something behind the scenes.
This feels completely wrong-headed. I’m surprised that no one has mentioned it, but how about simply extending a couple of guys. Monty & Flaherty seem like solid #3 or low-end #2 type pitchers. They aren’t old and they have had some success in the past.
If I were Mo, I’d extend both guys, go with Monty, Flaherty, Matz & Mikolas, and add the best SP I could find, outside of Ohtani. I’d bet they’d have at least a league-average ERA, depending on who they add as a FA. The position players seem pretty capable.
They are in last place with this current team. On paper it seems like they should be better, but they aren’t. Doubling down on the same roster might cost some jobs…and probably should.
Flaherty will not sign an extension. Period.
Montgomery has said he would only talk about an extension prior to the season. The Cardinals didn’t officially engage extension talks with his agent. I doubt he’s as adamant about testing free agency as Flaherty, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
If Monty is not traded over the next month, the Cardinals will give him a qualifying offer. That would give them a pick or a better opportunity to re-sign him.
Idk why Mo and Girsch get so much shade. It’s Dewitt’s money and I’m sure they would spend like drunken sailors if they were able.
That’s where you are wrong. DeWitt is a titular owner and gave Mo full control. I don’t think DeWitt would even need to be consulted unless it was something totally
Outrageous. Mo and Girsch are incentivized with profit sharing. Spending on better talent may help winning but it doesn’t increase revenue when attendance doesn’t really have much room to grow and advertising deals are already in place. So increased payroll has a negative ROI. That lowers the annual profits of the club and therefore has a negative effect on the front office bonus incentives. So Mo spending more literally takes money out of his own pocket. They only way to increase payroll is for fans to spot attending game and for tv rating to decline. That reduces gate revenue and advertising demand and therefore reduced sponsorship interest. That is then increased payroll will result in positive ROI. But it won’t happen until the fans are able to negative affect forecasted revenue, which can’t until 2025 budgeting season at the earliest.
You just made my point. That’s exactly what the Cards need, something totally Outrageous
No i didn’t. I very clearly stated DeWitt is not keeping the FO from spending more money. And while yes, they it would be great to see them do something outrageous it will never happen because there is no additional revenue to be gained. That is until the revenues start declining. but as long as attendance and viewership are flat, revenues won’t decline. Therefore, increased payroll decreases the FO salary and they aren’t going to do that.
I tend to agree. Cardinals fans shouldn’t gripe about the payroll, which is pretty sizeable for a team with this market size. I DO think Mo should be held accountable for how he spends the money however.
Aside from Pujols (who wanted to come back) and the guys our Pacific Rim scouts identifed (Mikolas, Kim, Oh), Mozeliak’s record is abysmal.
Contreras, Matz, C Dickerson, Verhagen, Wittgren, A. Miller, Gregerson, D Holland, Cecil, Fowler, Leake….
If anyone should be upset about our spending, it should be DeWitt! Mo regularly tosses his dollars out the window.
If they’re giving up on 2023 and focusing on 2024, I think the fans should do the same thing and let them not be in top 5 attendance. That would shake up the team!
Last Sundays announced attendance was 42 thousand.
Now YouTube the game and tell me what you see.
It’s not 42 thousand people in the stands. I don’t think it’s 10 thousand.
Those attendance numbers are fake.
It’s not 42,000, but not 10,000. Those are seats sold.
They can skew the numbers.
Which they do.
Seats sold is a fake statistic when they sell them at the last minute to ticket brokers.
There was not 42 thousand tickets sold last Sunday. It’s a lie to make it look more popular than it is.
Did you see the stadium? 10 thousand. Maybe.
King, I think you’re incorrect.
This team sells plenty of tickets well in advance, I know a few people with either season or partial season tickets, and I know two of them who weren’t going to see the Nationals despite having tickets. A lot of Cardinals fans expected big things from this team, and purchased tickets preseason.
The Cardinals SHOULD however be concerned by the large number of no-shows. Not only does that impact concessions and the like, but it’s a reflection of things to come. Barring exciting moves at the deadline and offseason, plenty of those “early purchases” won’t take place next year. It’s the Show Me State, and fans are gonna sit back, wait and see whether what we’re seeing now is a harbinger of things to come.
There are 20,000+ seasons via season tickets for every game. Then Cardinal tickets are the most popular find raiser tactic going right now. Every club, church, school, etc… are selling tickets to raise funds. Plus there sales for events like schools singing take me out to the ball game and god bless America then the monthly standing room only passes. And finally single game sales. It all adds up pretty quickly. May be be reflective in turn style counts, but the ticket sales are legit.
There is no event on the planet that has 42 thousand paying customers and 10 thousand show up.
Yes a few people don’t go but most of them sell their tickets or give them away to a friend who wants to go. They don’t just let the ticket go to waste. And if they do its not 30 thousand a night doing that.
The numbers are fake. People keep claiming “3 million tickets’ every year but it’s fake it has been since Albert left. I have been to over 300 games in my life I know this is a fact. How and why they do it I don’t know thats the question but the numbers are fake.
As bad as this team is, NOBODY should be untouchable! Pitching and timely hitting wins Championships,it’s really that simple. Draw walks, steal a base, bunt them to third, fly ball to the outfield. They used to call it Whitey ball but that just won Championships!
Paperstraws those ticket sales numbers are absolutely positively not legit. On the weekends usually it’s packed although last Sunday was shockingly empty. I haven’t seen a Sunday crowd like that since the early 2000s. Weekdays are the real problem though. Weekday games are maybe half full all season long.
The “best fans in baseball” never cease to amaze me. I don’t get the Carlson hate at all. By wRC+, he’s been an average hitter over his young career. That, combined with solid outfield defense (including CF), his youth, and low salary make him valuable. You people forget along the time he’s only 24. They’re plenty of examples of former top prospects taking several years to break out
Let’s hear some. Preferably multi time all stars. Then we can compare that with those that were 24 or younger.
Dansby Swanson, Javier Baez, and Ian Happ come to mind. All of them were like Carlson: good prospects pedigrees who were fine but unspectacular in their first 2-4 seasons before breaking out.
And people really overlook how decent Carlson’s career has been so far. 104wRC+, decent baserunning, and above average defense at all three OF positions is nothing to sneeze at.