Latest Red Sox Rumor - Clement, Vidro, Milledge

Several emailers have alerted me to a post made over at Sons of Sam Horn late last night.  A respected poster lays out this scenario:

Red Sox trade Matt Clement and Alex Cora
Nationals trade Jose Vidro and Jay Bergmann
Mets trade Lastings Milledge and Xavier Nady (with some chance of Victor Diaz instead of Milledge)

Red Sox receive Milledge and Nady
Nationals receive Clement and Cora plus cash if Clement pitches over 150 innings
Mets receive Vidro and Bergmann plus a PTNBL from either Nats or Sox depending on Vidro's health. (Livan Hernandez could end up with the Mets as well)

I paraphrased a few things but this is all from the post.  I haven't heard anything about these players lately, but I thought the rumor would make for interesting discussion.  My thoughts:

From the Red Sox point of view, it's either a steal or a salary dump.  It'd be a steal if Milledge were indeed the centerpiece.  However, there are some who believe Milledge is not even a top 100 prospect.  Don't gasp, Mets fans - David Luciani knows what he's talking about and still respects Milledge.

If the Red Sox are acquiring Diaz and Nady for Clement, I can't see a big improvement to their club for 2006.  It would have to be motivated by the $19MM owed to Clement over the next two seasons, but the Red Sox aren't having budget problems so it doesn't make a lot of sense.  The issue of whether the Sox have starting pitching depth from which to deal has been debated endlessly; it depends on how you evaluate their young guys.

The Nationals wouldn't be surrendering much to get Clement.  I've been told Vidro's health is still questionable, and he makes $23MM over the next three seasons.  The team would love to get out from under that contract.  24 year-old Bergmann looks like a decent enough reliever, but not a top tier prospect.  The Nationals would definitely have to bump someone out of the rotation to give Clement a spot.  They are currently six deep with Tony Armas, Ryan Drese, Livan Hernandez, Brian Lawrence, Ramon Ortiz, and John Patterson.

The deal makes the least amount of sense for the Mets.  It's been stated repeatedly that the team wants to hold onto Milledge, and that is thought to be the only reason they haven't traded for Barry Zito.  So the addition of Vidro and his albatross contract doesn't equate here.  Add Livan Hernandez and you might have something, but the 30 year-old may not be ace material anymore after posting a 1.43 WHIP in 2005.

Comments

[Jlubby]

Sounds like one of the big boosts for the Nats would be placating Soriano by freeing up 2nd for him.

[Kyle]

That deal only makes sense for the Nationals and it is so dumb for the Mets. Vidro wont even be ready to play at the start of the season

[Bdid]

Unless Omar wants to lose all respect from Mets Nation...I mean the fans are torn over Lastings for Zito. Vidro??? That be crazy!!! Of course it would make sense if Omar traded him for two Latinos...haha, just kidding! Now throw us Manny with that, and we'll throw in Matsushi, and we're good! Hmm...manny, Livan, and Vidro To Ny,
Kaz, Lastings, and Nady to Boston
And Clement and more garbage to Wash...I think Mets fans would live with that for Milledge!!! (Don't bash it, I know its rediculous!)

[bobo]

Ok, now it's my turn to agree with people and say what a horrible trade this would be for the Mets. I'm from NY, (but a Yankee fan) and I'D be rioting in the streets, just because stupidity makes me angry.

[RumorMonger]

Mets fans - any interest in the deal if it's Diaz instead?

[Metsfan]

This is obviously some trade cooked up by a Red Sox fan. This trade might make sense under two conditions: 1. Nady and Milledge go nowhere. One is an important stopgap; the other is the future. 2. Matsui's contract is eaten by the Red Sox.

Personally, I don't think Vidro will be significantly better than whatever crap the Mets put at 2b. Also, I've never been a Hernandez fan and don't want him on the Mets either. Trading Milledge for that pair is unacceptable.

[bobo]

Value and salary-wise, MAYBE Diaz, Nady, and Matsui.

But the hole in RF will be too big (bigger than the hole at 2nd now), so still no way.

[Bdid]

Diaz in place of Lastings or Nady? I'd do Diaz and Nady for those guys, and just have my boy Lastings start in right this year.

[Bdid]

You can't tell me Milledge isn't ready defensively, and couldn't put up similar numbers to our 8 spot last year, if not better!!! New lineup:
Reyes
Vidro
Beltran
Delgotit
DW
Floyd
LoDuca
Lastings!!!

[Frank Robinson]

This deal works splendidly for the Cubs. The other teams will keep sucking while the Cubs, with superior talent all over the board win it all.

[Erikfromdabronx]

You know, Diaz isn't too shabby. He has 25 HR pop and is cheap. Kid won two batting titles in the minors. In fact, i'd go so far to say that he'll have a better year than a certain overhyped Braves OF prospect. (J.F.)

[Brian]

Vidro is definately not the answer at second. I am 100% against trading Milledge unless we get a solid player in return. Three mediocre players doesn't equal a solid player. Livan would be a nice add though... I'm sure they could work out a seperate deal for him without giving up Milledge.

And I would trade Nady before Diaz.

[Bdid]

One last note from me...

The poster who started this had also claimed that his source said the Arroyo for Reed deal was all but complete.

My source says...BS

I'll do Diaz and Nady for Vidro, Bergann, and Livan, sure. But Milledge isn't getting put in any deal that doesn't bring back a big time player.

[Bdid]

Okay, another note...

On gothambaseball.com in the forums section McGann quotes a baseball exec as
"put down the crackpipe, that's not going to happen" to this deal...that should kill it!

[Bdid]

Damn, why am I so obsessed with rumors???

Okay, now gothambaseball.com has their article up about this funny deal. hopefully this actually DOES put an end to this deal!!!

[RumorMonger]

Well, we all knew it wasn't all that plausible. But I wish Gotham wouldn't give the typical lines mocking "Internet rumors." It's that type of thinking that helps destroy the credibility of anything besides a print newspaper.

[Bdid]

I think they were referring to the forum more so than the internet sites in general. They don't believe fan posts.

[RumorMonger]

Yeah, but there have certainly been trades broken on message boards. It's definitely something to be careful with though.

[Dan(Boston)]

So given that this rumor seems to be falling apart, its apparent that the sox are at least trying to move some of their starter depth. Why not Wells to Cali for one of the dodgers 3 SS or two closers? If arroyo or clement starts to suck put paplebon in. Now that wells says he'll report maybe that'll light a stove under some team on the west coast.

[Dan(Boston)]

Plus look at our infield. Not a star among them. Since when have the sox been content to have an infield of D2 players? Its not like we dont have the payroll, somethings gonna change.

[David]

That poster NEVER said that a Reed deal was completed (that trade idea was taken from that terrible freeweb rumor site).

This rumor comes from Carl Everetts' Therapist, a reliable poster on SOSH who does indeed have contacts in the front office of the Redsox.

It was also leaked to WEEI today.

It's probably going to happen, because the Mets are short on starting pitching, and they NEED a 2nd baseman (Matsui is THAT horrible).

It seems to be driven as an offshoot of talks between Omar and Theo from earlier this offseason. Now that the 3-way trade to get manny is dead, Omar has to fill other obvious holes in the team (and to those who think Omar values prospects as highly as those people being quoted by Gothambaseball, please remember Kazmir is a DEVILRAY).

[Kurt]

All you mets fans are so used to getting miraculous deals done by Omar, that any deal that is actually EQUAL, seems ridiculous to you. I agree that this deal is pretty bad for the Mets, but you're not getting Livan Hernandez and you're sure as hell not getting Manny Ramirez.

Clement to WSH
Vidro and Bergmann to NYM
Nady or Diaz to BOS

is the base of this deal. Some lower level prospects might be thrown in, but there won't be any Millege in this deal.

[Kurt]

All you mets fans are so used to getting miraculous deals done by Omar, that any deal that is actually EQUAL, seems ridiculous to you. I agree that this deal is pretty bad for the Mets, but you're not getting Livan Hernandez and you're sure as hell not getting Manny Ramirez.

Clement to WSH
Vidro and Bergmann to NYM
Nady or Diaz to BOS

is the base of this deal. Some lower level prospects might be thrown in, but there won't be any Millege in this deal.

[Rich]

Cubs fans, you guys make me laugh when you think you have superior lineup to anyone in the NL, guarantee they finish 4th at best.

David, you do know that Omar did not trade Kazmir right. The guy was in Montreal at the time of that trade it was done by Duquette. I do not see the trade happening at all, because the only team that gains out of this trade is the RedSox, and the mets will not give up Milledge for that crappy talent. If they didnt give him up for Zito why would they for Vidro who is coming off an injury.

[Metdenn]

Livan. Right. Guy has had only 1 really good year over the past 5, last year his WHIP jumped and his era was decently high in an EXTREME pitchers park, while his ks were way down.

Yea, he is a stud.

I don't care how reliable he is, that trade is terrible. Vidro is hurt, people doubt his he can continue to play at a DECENT level, let alone 23 million over 3 years worth. Matsui is not a stud, but he is a 1 year problem, with in house options that can take over with decent d out of the #8 spot. The prospect was quoted as a C+ prospect. Why would the Mets give up their jewel for those bums? Because some OTHER gm made a terrible trade? That's like saying we should offer middle relief for Marte because it worked to get Bagwell... get me?

[steven]

i think everyone is taking the proposal too literally. if you look at it the way it was originally posted it would probably never happen. however, there is also the mention of hernandez which would probably cause something to be added to the deal. so we probably dont know the full extent of whats going on. in that case its hard to dismiss the core of the deal. when you look at what minaya has done with this team you have to realize he is in a tight spot cause he needs to win now. his window of opportunity will decrease every year with pedro as his ace. he needs another pitcher really bad and maybe hernandez is the best available. if he can acquire him along with a 2nd baseman he likes while possibly getting matsuis money of the books he may be tempted to part with milledge.

[Metdenn]

Win now means adding talent, not just more names from '00 (yes, that is *6* years ago) with bad contracts now.

If he is going to give up the last of our farm that CAN be traded, he isn't stupid enough to waste it on players with little value.

[DrBox]

This sounds like more BS from the Bosox PR department or one of their many spokespersons from espn.

"Red Sox trade 2 pieces of crap for 2 top prospects." Same old, same old.

Matt Clement, an ex Cub 5th starter for which Theo paid 8 mill a year, was sweating and shaking so bad in the playoffs that he made Calvin Schiraldi look composed.

[xxJamesxx]

I love watching Cubs fans and Mets fans in action. It brings a wide smile to my face.

[Erik]

Our source went on to reiterate that "Milledge is not going anywhere unless it's for Zito and only if they give the Mets a 72-hour window and if it's done before the season starts.

"Minaya will not deal Milledge in any deadline deals...he's been pretty adamant about that, so if he survives spring training, he'll be a Met."

That essentially KILLS this discussion and just about any other. Consider Milledge a Met.

[Bdid]

Sorry David, but you are wrong. I was referring to the same poster...just a different post by him a few weeks ago. Also, just because Duquette was an idiot GM doesn't mean Minaya is (Kazmir thing). Look, most people who are not BoSox fans understand that this deal only really helps Boston. And the WEEI thing came from this post as well, everyone knows it!

As for Kurt, I don't think any Mets fan would mind giving up Nady or Diaz for those two. The part everyone says is bogus is the Milledge part. Why would they trade him for Vidro??? For the Mets is would essentially be Milledge BA's number 9 prospect in all the game, and Diaz/Nady for Vidro-who may never play again, and a decent reliever???? Crazy!

[D (Boston)]

I'm not sure this makes sense. The pitching depth is going to be traded for added depth in the minors, they need INF prospects. Everything Theo has said points to that. They aren't going to rush into a deal. Pitching is always needed and despite somebody calling Clement a fifth starter which he is not, with the market shift, he is suddenly an affordable mid rotation starter who will be in demand or kept. What happens with Wells should be interesting?

[Fatty]

As a Sox fan, I would love to get Milledge in return for Clement, but I don't see it happening. It was rumored that we might not be able to aquire him in a deal for Manny, nevermind a guy the Sox have been openly trying to get rid of since his post season debacle. If the Sox can trade Clement (and probably some cash) for a 4th outfielder (Diaz would be nice here) or a quality prospect or two, I think the Sox will move on a deal. Otherwise, they'll wait until Spring Training when a team loses a pitcher and gets desperate.

[casey white]

iddiots trading lastings whos behind this needs to be fired and dont know talent

[corey]

why is it that real future stars get traded. lastings is gonna be great trade him i would like to see him in boston