Bonds: The Real San Fransisco Treat

Joe Hamrahl reports that Barry Bonds has agreed to a $16MM contract with the San Francisco Giants to patrol left field in 2007, pending a physical. This coming after San Fransisco failed to land Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Lee, Manny Ramirez, Gary Mathews Jr, and Juan Pierre this off-season.

So they get Barry Bonds as a "consolation prize"? At least he gave them a discount from the 2-years/$40MM he reportedly was looking for originally. I'm not too sure anyone is really all that surprised at this point that this is where Barry ended up. I wonder if this is actually more or less than he would have gotten if the Giants had just offered Bonds arbitration.

By Adam Howe

Comments

[allabouthephils]

San Francisco has OFFICIALLY made the worst deal of the offseason beating out the Cubs top two worst deals of Ted Lillypad and Alfonso " Im taking my ball and going home if I can't play second" Soriano...

[snowmanny]

The Red Sox outbid everyone else by $13MM for Matsuzaka.

Somehow, the Giants managed to top that.

[bsox21]

When a team resigns the best hitter that ever lived by committing only one more year, I tend to think it's a good deal.

[bobo]

Um, no. San Francisco maybe overpaid slightly, for only one year, for a still wildly-productive player. This is far from the worst deal.

[stormstarter28]

Are you serious snowmanny? $51 million to negotiate(and probably fail to even sign) is better than $16 million for a guy who gets on base 45% of the time? That's just ridiculous.

[tyler]

The Red Sox should have done baseball a favor and traded Manny to SF... which would have kept Barry out of the Major Leagues.

[baseballfan06]

"Cubs top two worst deals of Ted Lillypad and Alfonso " Im taking my ball and going home if I can't play second" Soriano"

Are you kidding? These are the two worst deals!??? Soriano was THE most coveted offensive player on the market. Im sick of people saying the cubs "overspent" to get him. The Cubs may have given Soriano a few extra million, but to get an offensive powerhouse such as him, it was obviously worth it. And lets rememeber who Soriano is replacing; Juan Pierre. Id say thats QUITE the upgrade. Moving on to Lilly. If this guy can get through the AL EAST!!!! with 15 wins then he can for sure navigate the NL CENTRAL and get AT LEAST 15 wins. The talent drop off from the Al easy and NL central is tremendous. These are CLEARLY not the two worst deals...get over it Cub haters...this team made it self muchhhh better by getting these two players.
Oh and speaking or terrible deals, anyone here about the Eaton deal, perhaps even teh Matthews or Pierre deals????...ill take my chances on Lilly and Soriano i think.

[baseballfan06]

AL East****

[bsox21]

Bottom Line: Barry Bonds is the best player that ever walked the earth.

[NYs Maine Man]

Imagine what Babe Ruth could have done on steroids? He would have been a real-life Steve Nebraska, for those of you who saw the movie "The Scout".

[kyledavidson]

Dotel to the Royals.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=779

Contract seems too much to me...$5M guaranteed w/ $2M in incentives to reach...whoa. I am a Dayton fan but I think its a bit of a reach here.

[eeleye99]

Barry Bonds still has baseball value....he gets a ton of walks, and looks like he can hit 25 homeruns still. STill a lot, but it'll put asses in seats when he hits number 756.

[baseballfan06]

Jason Marquis, RHSP--St. Louis Cardinals
He appears set to sign a 3-year, $27-30M deal with the Cubs. The Pirates had also expressed interest. He had been seeking 3-years, $30M to 4-years, $36M.

What do you guys think? Personally i would like the signing. There have been reports that Marquis has fixed some mechanical issues that caused an inflated ERA last year. He gets the Cubs 190 innings and is good for 13-15 wins. Is this the last piece to the Cubs pitching puzzle or should they look elsewhere?

Zambrano
Hill
Lilly
Marquis
Prior
Miller

Prior is said to be healthy finally and actaully figures to be ready for spring training...hes a legit #1 type when healthy so the Cubs rotation would seem very strong with two aces at the top with the kid Hill who has #2 stuff and Lilly and Marquis roudning out the bottom.

[tyler]

Bonds is not the best player to ever walk the earth

[bsox21]

Ruth doesn't compare to Bonds.

Even before roids, Bonds was on par with Ruth.

Ruth is vastly overrated.

The majority of pitchers Ruth faced threw 2 pitches.

A not-so-fastball and a slow ball.

ADditionally, he would get to face each one 4-5 times per game. No specialists. No pitchers on roids.

No cutters, slider, splitters, etc.....

Ruth faced the equivalent of Brian Bannister minus the curve ball, everyday.

I don't want to get into it.

Ruth couldnt wear Bonds' jock strap.

Bonds = There is no comparison.

Pre-steroid Bonds = Top 10 player ever.

Post-steroid Bonds = The best hitter that will ever walk the earth.

Nobody will even come close for another 100 years.

[tyler]

WTF??? Jason Marquis is getting 10 mill a year???

Thank god my team isnt participating in this crap

[Ripwa]

I don't know if i agree with the best player ever but i will say he had the best season ever. 2001, a VORP of 144, an OPS of 1.379 and 195.2 RCs. Those numbers will never even come close to being top again.

[NYs Maine Man]

Mets have re-signed G.Mota to a 2-year deal, worth $5 million. Included in the deal was an engarved saringe.

[Laputian]

"Imagine what Babe Ruth could have done on steroids?"

Why not Hank Aaron? Oh yeah, racism.

[Laputian]

"Imagine what Babe Ruth could have done on steroids?"

Why not Hank Aaron? Oh yeah, racism.

[NYs Maine Man]

Haha, "Ruth couldn't wear Bond's jock strap", lol, what an idiot. I hate the Yankees, and their history, but what he did in his time was unprecedented. He did it on Hot Dogs and beer, your boy did it with needles sticking out of his ass.

[bsox21]

Bonds can still hit 25 HRs?

If u project Bonds 2006 stats, he hits more like 40.

he had a 1.000 OPS and a .550 SLG.

Still one of the best in there is.

[NYs Maine Man]

OK, sorry! Clemente, Mays, Aaron, Carew, is that better? Or is that reverse racism?

[baseballfan06]

Marquis numbers in his first 2 full seasons before his "mechanically flawed year"
ERA of 3.9, 28 wins 21 losses 410 innings 35 starts

Seems like those are numbers of a #4 guy and slotting him the #5 spot makes this deal look much better...Great Day-Game record too coupled with is young age and this expensive market = not a bad move

[NYs Maine Man]

I used Ruth as an example....he was a fat slob, no doubt, but please don't go playing the race card.

[NYs Maine Man]

Bonds was a great player prior to his steroid use, he is a Hall of Famer-- and I agree he was top 10-15 pre-steroid use....the best ever while under the influence, but that means he had external assistance becoming "the best ever", as a result, he is not the best player ever, nor the best pure hitter of our time...

[bsox21]

Maine Man,

I've read 3 books on Ruth.

My guess is you don't know jack shit u haven't seen in a 10 minute blurb on ESPN.

Ruth was served meatballs and faced garbage pitchers compared to what bonds deals with.

RUTH WAS SERVED MEATBALLS TO BRING FANS BACK AFTER THE BLACK SOX SCANDAL.

Sounds familiar you morons?

Baseball loses tons of fans from a terrible event.....

...HR record falls.

1994 strike.....HR record falls.

[NYs Maine Man]

Morons? You're talking to me, and only me, why insult other members of this blog?

Bonds is a cheater, you can have him as your baseball poster boy, I refuse to acknowledge him as the best player ever, he cheated. The competition level of Ruth's time can be debated, without question. But I refuse to engage in a stupid argument about a cheating bastard.

[EM3]

I would agree that the pre-steroid Bonds was a top 10 player of all time.
But the fact is that that wasn't enough for him. He had to go take an incredible amount of steroids, balloon physically, and then proceed to lie about it for 6 years (and counting).
Not only does he lie about it, but he claims that he's a VICTIM. He thinks the world is out to get him. He's a piece of shit. Had he not done the juice, he probably could have gone down as the Willie Mays/Dimaggio/Williams of this generation.
Instead, he will go down as the Black Sox/Pete Rose.
His lies, deception, arrogance, selfishness, and illegal activities outweigh his pre-roid accomplishments in my mind. Fuck him.

[bsox21]

maine man,

your idiocy aside,

did we really resign mota for 2 years at 5 mil?

If so, that's one of the best deals this offseason.

[NYs Maine Man]

Yes we did, it is on rotoworld.com and foxsports.

[NYs Maine Man]

Don't know how I feel about Mota, I hate when people use the juice, and he SUCKED last year prior to joining the Mets (aka the time where he started using performance enhancers). So I'll give him a shot at $2.5 million/year, but I don't know how good he'll be off the juice. We'll see.

[bsox21]

CHEATER?

If you want to call him a cheater for using roids, then the Yankees never won all those titles in the 90's.

The Oakland As dominance in the late 80s?

NEVER HAPPENED.

If you wont acknowledge/praise Bonds, then you have to erase the past 20 years of baseball.

When you are prepared to do that, then we can talk about Bonds' steroid use.

Until, take ur bullshit somewhere else.

[NYs Maine Man]

Mets re-signed RHP Guillermo Mota to a two-year, $5 million contract.

And they say cheaters never win. Giving a guaranteed two-year deal to a pitcher whose only really good run in the last two years came before he was caught taking PEDs seems like a substantial risk. Still, the Mets can afford it. Mota will rejoin the pen at the end of May after serving his 50-game suspension at the beginning of 2007.- ROTOWORLD.COM

[EM3]

I would agree that Ruth is incredibly overrated.
For one, he played in era that endorsed segregation. Only white people were allowed to play. To put it in perspective, how good do you think Roger Clemens' stat would look if he NEVER faced a single African-American, Latino, Asian player, etc? Well, that's the competition Ruth played against.
And that says nothing about how the game has evolved since then. If Ruth was 23 years old right now, I bet he would not even be a 5th round pick in the draft. Yea, i said it.

[NYs Maine Man]

Bsox21, are you on steroids? I ask this b/c you are obviously in favor of players using them. And you have sever rage issues, as many on this site have seen. You LOVE cheaters, haha.

[bsox21]

Mota was always filthy.

Bad coaching lead him astray.

His heat was always high 90's.

With his stuff, Rick Peterson and Shea stadium. Mota will dominate.

[bsox21]

"If Ruth was 23 years old right now, I bet he would not even be a 5th round pick in the draft. Yea, i said it."

THANK YOU!

Babe Ruth was the quivalent of Jack Cust.

MAYBE Jeromy Burnitz.

[NYs Maine Man]

I do not refuse to acknowledge Bonds as a great player, I refuse to give him the title "best player ever" b/c he used steroids. He has been a phenomenal baseball player for years, there is skill involved with that, obviously. But, I prefer to give my praise to Ken Griffey Jr pre-injuries, and players as such.

[tyler]

yeah nice try defneding Bonds... impossible. the guys a cheater plain and simple

[EM3]

BSOX: In my mind, I have already voided the Yankees 2003 ALCS victory because of Juice Guy Giambi's 2 homeruns in game 7.

By the way, you are an arrogant prick.

[NYs Maine Man]

Haha, you can not compare the competition today to days of yore, it is all proportional. If you guys refuse to acknoledge Babe as one of the great players, I'll move to more current times and take Ted Williams-- best pure hitter ever. No, he didn't have the power, but I'll take him over Bonds on juice...b/c I don't like cheaters.

[tyler]

you could go back and do that for almost any game you want... thats not the point

[NYs Maine Man]

I want Danny Haren, badly, FYI

[EM3]

If you define "Greatest Player" as the one who was the best in his generation, than Ruth does get consideration.
But if you want to say that Ruth is the most talented player of all time, you should probably just consider yourself simplistic and naive.

[tyler]

You know there's A LOT more that makes a player an alltime great, other than stats. Ever heard the phrase "ambassador of the game"?

[tyler]

Ruth HELPED the game while Bonds has HURT it. You can't dispute that.

[EM3]

I hope Barry Bonds tears his ACL tomorrow.

[EM3]

Tyler, I totally agree with you there. I am not arguing for bonds. Read my post on him. I despise him.

I just believe that Ruth was not as talented as legend holds. Ahead of his time? Yes. Best of his era? by far. Good for the game? No doubt. But could he play today? Gary Matthews would start over himi

[bsox21]

Ted Williams would be Bonds' delivery boy.

There are at least 10 streoid free hitters Id take over ted williams.

[hood]

Forget the ACL I hope he drops a hair dryer in the bathtub.

[hood]

You never seen Ted Williams play how can you say that you are a dumbass.

[EM3]

See, I think Ted Williams would hit .320/.400 in any era. He had a tremendous eye and a great swing. And was always studying pitchers. He had an unbelievable work ethic.
The power probably wouldn't have been there as much, but he could have been Tony Gwynn/Kirby Puckett/Wade Boggs at a minimum.

[EM3]

It would be great if he dropped that hair dryer in the bath tub while bathing with bsox21.

hahaha, just kidding bro. Had to throw that in there, you bonds apologist.

[hood]

So what are you saying that if Babe Ruth played today he wouldn't have all the advantages that ball players today have. I don't think ballplayers nowadays could play back then. Hot ass uniforms, taking trains to the next city not able to use the excuses they use nowadays to get a day off. When did you hear that Babe Ruth had a sore hamstring so he sat out. Shit Willie Mays or Joe D for that matter as well. You guys always comparing different era's in baseball. Bonds sensitive ass would have never been able to do what Aaron did with the racism of that era. He would have shit himself with the threats Aaron recieved. Punk ass juice head.

[bsox21]

The media hates Bonds becuz he's a successful minority player on the verge of accomplishing greatness.

They're not very popular in the American media.

Check it out..

Arod
Manny
Belle
Palmeiro

This list goes on forever.

Bonds hates the media, becuz besides treating him with disdain, they treated his father and god father like shit.

His father and god father received endless hate mail while Bonds was growing up. He's been told all the stories of how Hank Aaron received thousands of death threats when he was pursuing the HR record.

Look, I'm not here to say who's bad, good,whatever.

None of us know enough to understand why someone like Bonds does what he does.

We only know what sports writers tell us.

Sportswriters are the rejects of society. They are journalist school rejects taht couldnt get jobs reporting real news.

What I do know, is what I see on the field and in the box scores.

I don't know Bonds. He's never done anything bad to me.

He's put on the greatest athletic display I have ever witnessed.

AS for eevrything else....it's all speculation.

Roger Clemens pumps more drugs than Pfizer.

I don't care. MLB allows it to happen. Society condones it by paying for their tickets.

I want to enjoy it.

Bonds is the best player that ever walked the earth.

As for why he dislikes the media?

That's his business. I don't give a shit waht he does to some asshole sport writer.

For all I care, he could punch them in the face, stomp on their backs, shit on their face and walk away.

Those sportswriters are pricks anyway.

IF MLB allows him to step up to the plate in April, I will be watching.

[hood]

I agree to a certain extent he is only the best cause Griffey took all those years of abuse from the Kingdome. The same abuse that Bonds took in 3 rivers. The only difference is Bonds Pumped himself up with stuff to help him overcome that abuse he took.

[bsox21]

"You never seen Ted Williams play how can you say that you are a dumbass."

Becuz altho I've never seen him play, I know what he accomplaished against inferior competition.

So, if my season is on the line:

Do I take a hitter that posted his stats against inferior competition whom I have never seen before?

or

Pujols

I have seen pujols play.

I KNOW Pujols destroys the best pitchers the world ever known.

I KNOW for a FACT that Pujols is a fucking beast.

I hear Ted Williams is good. I read Ted Williams was awesome.

but his stats are not better than Pujols.

He faced lesser cmopetition and I've never seen him play.

With so much at stake, I prefer the hitter I've seen who I know FOR SURE is awesome over a guy I HEAR or READ is awesome.

I would think this makes sense to a LOT of people.

[EM3]

Hood, you bring up some great points. You're right that athletes today would not survive in previous generations where being a prima donna bitch just wouldn't cut it.

BSOX: Bonds is a cheater, a liar, a selfish brat, and a piece of shit. That is why people hate him. And he should be hated. I will not recognize his record. That is Hank's record.

[allabouthephils]

EM3,

"Gary Matthews would start over himi"
That's a stupid comment to make... I can't put it any other way.

We've gotten into the age old debate of who would equate into a great baseball player today from yesteryear...

They did scientific tests on Albert Pujols to measure hand eye coordination and reaction time along with other attributes designed to measure a persons baseball skills... Him and Babe Ruth scored nearly identical off the chart scores....

I think to say that Ruth wouldnt succeed in todays baseball is ridiculous... There is no way to measure that. I personally think he would. He had talents that are far superior to any of us. Babe Ruth was a mythical larger than life figure that played baseball in an era that emphasized pitching and small ball... He changed baseball forever with his homerun prowess that was previously unheard of... Walter Johnson, Christy Matthewson, Three Finger Brown, Cy Young are a few of the hall of fame pitchers that pitched during that era... Walter Johnson was said to throw 100 MPH plus...

I will never support Barry Bonds. He cheated and might break one of the most hallowed sports records. You can't dispute the numbers Bonds has put up... But, you can dispute when he put them up and how sticking a needle in your ass makes you hit the ball a mile farther... He isn't the best hitter in baseball and never will be... He is a cheat and always will be...

[bsox21]

EM3,

so you choose to ignore bonds' reality which explains much more than what smoe rnuny nose sportswriter says, and form an opinion based on what you THINK is real, although none if it has been done to you.

Your choice.

Lots of retarded americn monkeys feel the same way as u.

You're so fucking lazy u dont want to think for urself anymore.

[hood]

bsox it makes alotta sense but you goota take into account all the things that the old timers weren't prevy to.All I'm sayin is if Williams or Ruth couldn't play now than Pujols couldn't play then. Baseball is year round I mean Ted Williams went to a friggin awr in the middle of his career and came back. They didn't have protein skakes and low carbs and TRAINERS back then. Guys had to work fulltime jobs. I'm just sayin its not fair to compare and also this superior talent is spread to alotta teams where the teams back then had the best ballplayers on only a few clubs. Alotta variables alot more than bat ball pitcher is all I'm sayin.

[allabouthephils]

They always say that if you were fortunate enough to be managing a team in the world series and had the bases loaded with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth and were down by 3, that's how you pick your best hitter...

Who would be that hitter for you guys ???

Whenever someone asks me if I would take Bonds, I tell them no because I look at Bonds before he could deadlift 600 lbs... and was growing man boobs...

I take Frank Robinson and don't look back... He is the best hitter I have ever seen.

[nrmax88]

Ok here is one thing i will say in defense of BArry Bonds. The steroids dont make the hitter, okay? This guy has cheated sure, so have 100s of other guys, they just havent hid a massive amount of moonshot homeruns while doing it. I say if your going to go after Barry for the juice, you better crack down and find every single cheater, or is that not fair. Just because he used steroids, and had amazing success with them, does that make him worse then some scrub AA pitcher who used steroids and still sucked? They both cheated, whatever, Bonds shouldnt be the only one who is ripped by media and fans, because the fact is, he was still an amazing hitter before he cheated, the juice just gave him more power. Didnt give him a better eye at the plate, or a smoother swing, just more power, and I guess the ability to recover quicker and that part atleast, has caught up to him. I just really dont think it is fair to go after bonds and only bonds when we all know that there are loads of others who are cheaters, just cheaters with no where near as much natural talent as barry.

[hood]

And also baseball is not Americas sport anymore. Go to a park in the hood and nobody is playin baseball where in yesteryear baseball was bigger than sliced bread. All the great athletes played baseball. Now they play football and basketball.

[bsox21]

Obivuosly we're talking in their prime....

I take Bonds. No question.

It was absolutely impossible to pitch to him.

If I can't take Bonds, I go Pujols.

I know, it's pathetic to take such a recent player.

I don't care.

I think of all the great hitters I've seen in my life as a fan (the past 23 some odd years) and I can't think of a better hitter.

When Pujols was on deck in the Astros-Cards series, I was on the phone with my buddy.

BRad Lidge was still sick back then.

I told my buddy, "if they Let Pujols come up, I guarantee the Cards win."

I swear to god I said that.

Thing was, with other players, you say stuff like that sort of joking. Just throwing it out there becuz it's fun to say.

When I said it with Pujols, I MEANT it.

I honestly felt in my heart, the Cards would win if he came up.

I EXPECT Pujols to crush the ball in that situation.

He might be the best non-Bonds hitter I've ever seen.

His balance, body like a strong safety, his patience, his quick bat...

he's insane.

[hood]

They are going after a whole era. Even people I believe were never on steroids are gonna be tied into it. Look at Mcgwire he has a better case for not doin steroids than Barry the guy hit 49 his rookie year lookin like a red head scarecrow he was so skinny. So that means the power was there all along. Barry was a 30/30 guy. He was Don Mattingly. A young DAryll Strawberry's power was more impressive than a young Barry.

[allabouthephils]

nrmax I agree with you to a point... But, you are going to get critized when you are the single season home run champ... You are chasing a workman like figure that is an American hero in Hank Aaron for the all time homerun title... It isn't fair to the major leagues, the American people, or the children around the world that are 12 years old and are thinking of becoming a major league baseball player and realize they can take steroids and possibly make that happen ( killing themselves in the process).

No one doubts that Barry Bonds was one of the best 5 tool baseball players this world has ever seen... Is he the best? I personally don't think so... I don't think he is the best with the roids or without... He hasn't hit .400. He hasn't won a triple crown... I don't think he's ever hit a 500 foot blast either... ( I could be wrong)... He has been a great hitter for a decade and a half... But, statistically I think there are better...

[allabouthephils]

Obivuosly we're talking in their prime....

I take Bonds. No question.

It was absolutely impossible to pitch to him.

If I can't take Bonds, I go Pujols.

I know, it's pathetic to take such a recent player.

I don't care.

I think of all the great hitters I've seen in my life as a fan (the past 23 some odd years) and I can't think of a better hitter.

When Pujols was on deck in the Astros-Cards series, I was on the phone with my buddy.

BRad Lidge was still sick back then.

I told my buddy, "if they Let Pujols come up, I guarantee the Cards win."

I swear to god I said that.

Thing was, with other players, you say stuff like that sort of joking. Just throwing it out there becuz it's fun to say.

When I said it with Pujols, I MEANT it.

I honestly felt in my heart, the Cards would win if he came up.

I EXPECT Pujols to crush the ball in that situation.

He might be the best non-Bonds hitter I've ever seen.

His balance, body like a strong safety, his patience, his quick bat...

he's insane.

bsox21,

I was just thinking of that exact game while we were talking about this....

That is amazing...

[hood]

Yes he is but did any of them guys hitr the ball OUTTA Yankee Stadium like Mantle or Have to patrol A 500 ft CF like Mays or Dimaggio no. Just not fair to compare.You can put all the statistical analysis out there you want. Guys worked on piers and docks in the offseason. Some even played semipro football both ways. Those analysis I'm sure don't take that shit into account. Like I said before Ted Williams was a fighter plane pilot in the friggin war. In the middle of his prime. Lets see Barry go to war.

[nrmax88]

Now to defend the babe, although bsox, i completely agree the pitching back then was NOTHING compared to today... The bats and equipment were also nothing, and you really had to crush a ball to get it out, none of this shit like wrigley field on a windy day where you pop the ball up and it flys out, I mean, I dont think anybody can say The Babe hit many cheap homer, even with the short porch.

[hood]

Guys nowadays are better athletes because of the men of yesteryear. They paved the way and made baseball and all sports for that matter what it is today. Guys like CoolPaPaBell, Satchel Paige, Jackie Robinson put up with rasicm that Bonds couldn't dream about.

[allabouthephils]

hood great stuff... When I think about this, I think of the stats these guys put up in the time they played... I know that the baseball world was completely different 5 years ago let alone 55 years ago or 100 years ago... I also think that longevity skews a persons perception when it comes to how great they were... Bonds has been doing it for 20 years now and at a ultra high level for 15 of those years... That will skew the numbers... If Albert Pujols gets in a car accident tomorrow, will he be considered amongst the greatest to ever live??? I personally think he would... I havent seen the likes of Pujols in a long time... He is special...

People have that debate all the time... look at Sandy Koufax... There are people who actually believe he doesnt belong in the hall of fame...

[bsox21]

allaboutthephils,

my mind went numb as soon as it came off the bat.

the replay made the moment even better becuz the HR wasn't just a HR.

It was a BOMB!

A majestic blast that looked even prettier with the shots of that stupid fucking stadium they call Minute Maid park.

The crowd going from NUTS to SILENT instantaneously as Pujols jogged around....

taht was fucking awesome.

[hood]

Good point nrmax I seen one of Babe's bats in a museum one time. That damn thing looked like a friggin Redwood tree. Heavy as HELL. And the gloves they played with. You might as well been catchin bearhanded.

[allabouthephils]

To elaborate on nrmax...

Babe Ruth hit with a 48 oz stick of hickory wood that was shaped as straight as a pencil... I don't know if any of you guys have ever been, but in Cooperstown at the hall of fame , they show it... It's amazing to think of what he did with so little...

[hood]

That is a great memory. My grandfather use to tell us about the Bobby Thompson homerun all the time. So every era got memories.

[allabouthephils]

bsox21,

I felt the same energy when Carter hit the blast in 93 off Williams but not like Pujols blast because of the magesticness ( if thats a word) of the flight...

Like you said, that was an absolute bomb in every sense of the word... It was like it was scripted out of a movie... Just a storybook way to end a game of that magnitude...It was something Juan Gonzalez would have hit in his heyday... Or a Cecil Fielder blast... Just absolutely amazing to watch..

[allabouthephils]

It kind of fun to watch those... Every 10 or 15 years you have one of those memorable, late inning, in the divison series or the world series blasts that defines a teams season for better or worse...

[hood]

Same thing with Gibson's shot. My grandfather was a Die hard Dodgers fan for 60 somethin years. Still called them Brooklyn Dodgers I was 11 yrs old watchin the game with him. He was damn near 80 and senile. He teared up when Gibson hit that shot.

[hood]

Yeah for better or worse like when Lyritz stuck the knife in my heart. Took Wholers deep I still hate that prick.

[nrmax88]

hood and allabouthephils, i was at coopertown baseball camp about 10 years ago, i was 9 years old and didnt appreciate anything like i would if i went back now, but i remember seeing the babesbat, it really did look like somebody cut down a tree, and took a chunk out of it and gave it to babe and said here go hit. Bsox and phils, I think the best part about the pujols HR was how Lidge spun around as if he had been bitchslapped, and the shot of pettitte in the dugout, saying, "Oh My God". Bsox im not gona say i called that homerun, but i felt it comen, I think everybody watching that game had that image in the back of their head before it happened. Like you said, what made it more amazing was it wasnt a cheap wall scraper homerun, that was an absolute shot. Slider right over the middle wasnt it?

[allabouthephils]

I remember that one all too well... Wohlers was never the same after that. The worst waste of a 100 mph pitcher ( not named John Rocker) in history.

[allabouthephils]

Slider that just hung there like one of those bugs bunny balls that stops in mid flight... The best was Lidge knew before Pujols hit the ball. You could tell right after he threw it. I havent seen a reaction like Petittes ever from an opposing team. Everything in that moment was just perfect for a storybook movie ending.

[bsox21]

nrmax,

slider right down the pipe.

I completely forgot about Pettitte.

That was CLASSIC!!

He looked like he was watching a UFO landing in Minute Maid....

That was awesome. Cant believe I forgot abuot the look on his face.

Pujols looked 10 ft tall rounding the bases....

[hood]

I remember the Pujols shot too. That was kinda his defining moment for me. Something AROD is missing. Even when Beltran kicked the braves ass damn near by himself that year it just wasn't defining to me. Maybe because I knew he wasn't gonna be there. But alotta players are like that clutch. Sad to say I think Chipper or Lemke are the most clutch Braves. I remember when the Mets were on our heals come Sept. and Chipper blew up and carried us to the division. I'm sorry Brian Jordan was clutch too.

[allabouthephils]

FRANCISCO CABRERA........

[hood]

I don't know if he threw 100 but it was damn near close and Mitch Williams was just a big of a waste.

[bsox21]

dont even bring up chipper......

This has been replayed about 30 fucking times over the past 10 years....

1) Braves vs Mets

2) Braves rallying.

3) I pray Chipper doesnt come up in a key spot.

4) Chipper comes up in a key spot.

5) Chipper hits a HR.

over and over and over and over and over and over....

[hood]

I don't know about Cabrera I thought the pitch before was strike 3 and he was kinda lucky Bonds arm was so weak Bream should have never scored from 2nd. But I'll take it.

[allabouthephils]

The Braves always had enough offense to get by... But, man they killed some people with that starting pitching... They never had much of a bullpen either... They never needed it. They just kept getting into the 7th and 8th innings with their starters and telling their closer to hold a 3 run lead. No wonder they won all those division titles.

[hood]

Yeah Chipper and Smoltz are the heart and soul of the dynasty. Does anybody remember game 7 in 91 Smoltz vs Morris. Morris pitches 10 innings to beat the braves on fuckin Knoblach's head bob.

[allabouthephils]

"I don't know if he threw 100 but it was damn near close and Mitch Williams was just a big of a waste."

Williams never threw as hard as Wohlers... Im almost certain that Wohlers had the triple digits going on the radar gun... But, Williams had a decent career, he just had his most defining moment in the 93 world series... I'll still shiver at night when I think of that...

[hood]

That broke my heart. I grew up playin little league bein Dale Murphy havin to hear the ridicule of bein a fan of the sorry ass braves. I grew up in Jersey so everyone was a Yankee or Met fan. Mostly Mets and here it is 7th game and we lose to a friggin head bob. Fuckin Lonnie Smith I still hate him.

[allabouthephils]

Ah man.... One of the best games I have ever seen... That performance by Morris should be shown in every clubhouse the very first day of spring training. Absolute guts... I'll never forget it.

[nrmax88]

hood haha, i was going to say u forgot brian jordan till i got to the end of your post and saaw u mention him. I forget what year it was exactly, maybe 2001, but Jordan seriously killed the mets playoff hopes single handedly, the mets came on a mad tear, 8 games out with like a month to go and then brian jordan hit i think 2 walk off HRs against them, and like 2 or 3 others that werent walk offs, man he killed us. Chippes is probably the biggest met killer of all time tho. He named his kid shea that says it all. Another great reaction was mike vanderjagt missing the kick against the steelers last year. How many guys on the sideline could u read their lips saying... "He missed it"

[hood]

That is somethin that can't be taught. I love Maddux to death but he didn't have it. Clemens either. Pettitte does, D.Wells does, Schilling does.

[allabouthephils]

Dungy was the one guy I wont forget seeing say that...

Like, how the hell do you miss that kick in that spot with all that's on the line...
No wonder he's at home watching Oprah... He doesn't deserve to be kicking.

[nrmax88]

One shining moment the mets have over the braves, is the 99 NlCS game 5, the grandslam single, i was at that game, sitting in the second deck, and people were jumping up and down so hard the whole stadium was shaking. Some man in his late 50s picked me up and gave me a huge bear hug. Then of course the mets proceeded to lose the next game(which they should have fucking won by the way, god i hate kenny rogers, but mostly i hate benitez, best closer till the playoffs came)

[hood]

Thats my football team I damn near died that day when bus fumbled. Viniatari was ice though and Jordan had a grand slam vs the Mets last year too. Thats what I'm sayin stats can't tell how big a guy's heart is. Some got most don't.

[sirfreshness]

Barry is one of the greatest players to ever play the game period. Did he cheat? Probably. Is he as ass? yes. But he shouldnt be the only one blmaed for the steriod era it began long before him, before, McGwire and Conseco. If we are going to neglect what barry has done we should discount everything and start over. Players used to use greenies and now they cant so were the players who used them cheaters? No. No one knows when/if barry used riods but they were illegal in baseball untill fairly recently. Therefore they werent cheating. Is stealing signs illegal? Yes. Is corking the bat illegal? yes. The history of baseball is filled with cheaters and pricks its just the way it is. Sure i dont like the fact that players useduse steriods but as long as they dont/havent tested postive for them once banned then i cant blame them for taking them.

[allabouthephils]

Benitez... What a waste...
Remember when he was traded to the Yankees and they traded him like the next day because the NY fans absolutely went nuts...

[hood]

But the torched was passed last year lets see how long the Mets can run with it cause we are comin back for it. I love the rivalry.

[sirfreshness]

If harpers wife hadnt stabed him in the knee 5 days earlier he would have juked Big Ben so bad

[allabouthephils]

The Phils are coming for them this year though...

I know Gillick isn't done shaping this team yet...
He is still gonna trade Lieber and probably Burrell... What that will get them remains to be seen? But, the division is definately going to be competitive this year.

[hood]

Only if but history says he didn't and I still think Tuman's angle he would have gotten him

[hood]

I liked the Phills run I am scared of those young boys.

[bsox21]

MY worst baseball moment:

Kenny Rogers walking in the winning run against the Braves.

It was disgusting. I almos broke my friend's TV.

I already hated Kenny Rogers. That was the iciing on the cake.

[allabouthephils]

Most in the division are... I still think they are a year away from a serious world series run. I think the wildcard is a reasonable goal for them this year... I think next year will be the year. I really think they will turn some heads in 08...

[hood]

Still don't like 3rd and OF for Phills Healms will be exposed over a whole year. But I like what Gillick is doin since he got there. Thats 3 of the greatest gm's in 1 division think about it.

[nrmax88]

sirfreshness thats funny, i remember saying the same thing to my dad, it was all harpers wifeys fault. Wasnt that the first kick Vandejagt missed all year at home too? Maybe he was liquored up like peyton said

[allabouthephils]

It's amazing I am still married after all these year of neglect on my wife in favor of endless hours of baseball... hahaha... All these moments just remind me of how much the game has changed... The pitching especially...

Can you remember the last time we saw two starting pitchers pitch into the 9th??? Or a 1-0 game pitchers dual in the playoffs???

[hood]

I remember that game you must be young I remember 88 Sciosa's home run. The Mets were the best team that year by far. All the Dodgers had was Gibson and Hershiser. After Gooden's rookie year Hershiser's 88 and Scott's 86 were the most dominatin pitchin performances I ever seen.

[hood]

Not to get off subject but that was Payton's chance for his defining moment. Lead his team to victory after the fumble. But he blew it. That is the heart factor that wasn't a chip shot for Vanderjagt. Payton should have gotten closer. Come on Elway's drive, Clark's catch, if Payton wants to be known as the best ever he couldn't have left it up to the kicker. Thats what makes really good players great. And I'm sorry Payton's is not great to me but Brady is.

[allabouthephils]

When people ask me about Peyton Manning I tell them this... I love Peyton Manning if he is on my fantasy team...

If football was a game that could be figured out mathematically, Peyton Manning would be the best this game has ever seen. He is so calculating and perceptive but he lacks a killer instinct that Brady has. He lacks that little spark that Elway had. Just that little extra that makes a bad player average an average one good and a good one great.

[bsox21]

"Just that little extra that makes a bad player average an average one good and a good one great."

It's called "The Joe Montana Factor".

Down by 5.....2:30 left in the game. Ball at your 12 yard line.

Montana leading your huddle.

You know you're gona win.

(Sure it helped to have Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and an offensive line that could stop the war in the middle east, but "The Joe Montana Factor" sounds cooler than "The 49ers Offense Factor".)

[bsox21]

forgot Brent Jones.....

Best offense ever.

[allabouthephils]

yeah and it wont really ever be rivaled... I actually thought that if Robert Smith could have stayed healthy and they had a defense ( because you have to win a championship to be considered), the 98 Vikings could have rivaled them...

[bsox21]

98 Vikes huh?

I remember the Vikes had some sick offenses with Culpepper at the helm, but I never thot of them as one of the greats....

I'll have to look into that one.

[sirfreshness]

here the thing about peyton not going for the TD in that game. Vanderjagt was/is the most accurate kicker of all-time. He only kicks from the left hash mark or he will get fussy. Dungy made peyton play it safe and keep the ball on the left side of the field. The coaching staff didnt want to lose because of a turnover so they played it safe. They handcuffed peyton at the end. Now with that said i still think it was his chance for him to do something in the postseason, but i think he will get another shot at it this year. He will half to come through because bob sanders is only one man and he is the only guy making any plays on defense right now.

[sirfreshness]

the '98 vikes set the record for offensive points in a season. Culpepper with Carter, and Moss was just nasty.

[allabouthephils]

Robert Smith, Jake Reed, Cris Carter, Randy Moss, Dante Culpepper... Absolutely a scoring machine... Lost to Atlanta in the NFC championship game on Gary Andersons' only missed field goal of the entire season...

[bsox21]

was Jake Reed part of that offense?

[bsox21]

ah....missed his name in ur post phils.

just thot i rememebered a "reed" making plays on that offense too.

yea that offense was stacked. didnt realize they set the scoring record tho.

Robert smith was awesome.

[nrmax88]

agreed freshness, i agree, brady isnt better then peyton, when it comes to raw talent and skills, but hes the clutch, champion, you want him to have the rock when the game is on the line, im saying tho, vandys gota nail that kick, no ifs ands or buts.