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« Rosenthal's Latest: Figgins, Helms, Affeldt | Main | Cleveland In The Haren Sweepstakes? »
Brewers Near Deal With Gagne
UPDATE, 12-9-07 at 12:31am: The AP agrees Gagne will get $10MM, plus another mil in incentives.
UPDATE, 12-8-07 at 8:51pm: Tom Haudricourt has heard the deal might be around $10MM for one year.
FROM 12-8-07 at 1:06pm:
According to Yahoo's Tim Brown, the Brewers are nearing an agreement with free agent Eric Gagne. It'll probably be a one-year deal, which jives with what Doug Melvin has said. The move pushes newly acquired David Riske to the eighth inning, while Derrick Turnbow, Salomon Torres, and Guillermo Mota can split sixth and seventh inning duty.
As far as I can tell, Gagne earned $8.5MM in 2007 ($6MM base plus $2.5MM in performance bonuses guaranteed for waiving his no-trade rights). We'll have to wait to see the terms, but my guess is that this turns out to be a shrewd signing by Melvin. Gagne will be in his comfort zone - National League, closer role.
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as a cubs fan, im not thrilled by the prospect of Gagne closing for the brewers. i thought we caught a break when cordero left for the reds, but if gagne bounces back from his rough months in boston it could be even worse than facing cordero.
Posted by: kid_gloves | December 08, 2007 at 01:14 PM
This is excellent news for the Brewers, not so excellent news for the rest of the NL Central.
Posted by: Larry Oliver | December 08, 2007 at 01:20 PM
Hope he can be back to his old self. The NL central has been awful over the last couple of years and this is a positive step in winning the worst division in baseball.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 01:25 PM
The Brewers offense is going to be even better next season. Rickie Weeks lit it up after the All-Star break last year, and if Bill Hall returns to form... wow!
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 01:25 PM
Maybe having Gagne ... Turnblow will get back to being Turnbow, not having the pressure of a closing situation. I think we all know that was his major issue. This could actually be a very good thing for the Brew Crew...
Posted by: Larry Oliver | December 08, 2007 at 01:27 PM
any talk of them moving Hall back to 3B and going with Braun, Gwynn Jr., Hart in the OF?
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 01:28 PM
As a Cubs fan too, this is getting scary. The Brewers have really revamped their bullpen. If the Gagne signing becomes true, then they will have a very formidable bullpen next year.
And the Cubs big 3 are all right-handers. Geez.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 01:33 PM
This revamped bullpen may all be for not if Nedly J. Yost is still pulling the strings.
Gwynn and his popgun bat should not be considered for a starting OF spot. If not for his name he's not even on the 40 man. I do agree that if they don't get Rolen, Hall should be back at third. Braun in left, Hart in center, and trade a surplus starter or two for a decent RF. (I hear the Dodgers have a few too many nice young options)
Posted by: blind | December 08, 2007 at 01:35 PM
Half of me wants to worried, the other half sees Mota and Torres with 5.00+ ERA, Turnbow being Turnbow, and Gagne having a 6.57 ERA after the All-Star break.
That being said, Riske is a good pitcher and bullpen are crap shoots. Gagne could play like his first half numbers and guys always get hot and cold.
Who's the LOOGY on this team though? It's not a huge problem, but you do need a LOOGY.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 01:56 PM
I'm impressed with how aggressive Melvin has been rejuvenating his bullpen. After being burned by Cordeo, he's assembling a scary bullpen that shut be able to shut down the NL Central.
This move will edge thempast the Cubs.
Posted by: WestCoastBias | December 08, 2007 at 01:57 PM
jimmyb1799 - Cubs fan here... I have to agree about your comment regarding observations on Gagne - he's one tough dude when his stuff is going the way its supposed to. I know I'm not thrilled with the thought of seeing him so often in the NL central.
Torres, on the other hand, doesn't scare me near as much. I see him breaking down early (if he doesn't retire first).
I'm hoping for another great battle between our teams this season (oh... and the same result!).
Kudos on the Brewers blog! Looks great.
Posted by: socalicubsfan | December 08, 2007 at 02:46 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Torres wants to stay in Pittsburgh and may even retire since the trade
Posted by: CardinalsFanInPittsburgh | December 08, 2007 at 02:56 PM
According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Torres wants to stay in Pittsburgh and may even retire since the trade
Posted by: CardinalsFanInPittsburgh | December 08, 2007 at 02:57 PM
This is really what Melvin needed to do. That bullpen was looking pretty bad...but this really helps. Cordero is the better closer at this point, but Gagne could be as good if best case scenario happens. Good move by Melvin.
Posted by: Aduncaroo | December 08, 2007 at 03:29 PM
The Brewers bullepn could be the biggest X-factor in the Central going into next year.
Of Mota, Torres, Gagne, Riske, and Turnbow, Riske was the only one who had any great success. The Brewers had no choice to go out and get these guys because no one in the minor league system was ready to step up to the plate. And the guys that lost their rotation spot like Capuano and Vargas are not sure bets in the pen. These guys could all come together to help each other out in terms of rest and become dominant or they Gagne, Torres, and Mota could post their 2007 numbers, Turnbow keeps Turnblowing games, and Riske is the only decent arm in the pen. Time will tell if these guys can turn the Brewers back from their 58-68 record to finish the season.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 03:40 PM
"as a cubs fan, im not thrilled by the prospect of Gagne closing for the brewers. i thought we caught a break when cordero left for the reds..."
I don't understand the point. Both the Reds and Brewers are in the NL Central. The Cubs still have to face Cordero a lot. If you are saying the Brewers are a better team, the Reds give us (Cubs) all we can handle, regardless.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 03:43 PM
"The Brewers bullepn could be the biggest X-factor in the Central going into next year."
For the Brewers, Ned Yost not falling apart in September will be the biggest X factor, I think. Obviously, Doug Melvin and Co. saw that and hired Ted Simmons as the bench coach. That was a good move. As a Cub fan, I like the Brewer rivalry.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 03:54 PM
tom haudricourts blog at http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/ is saying the deal could be worth $10 million for one year. I guess for a one year investment, its not to bad, considering if it is a bad year, they can let him walk. Would be nice to know if there is a club option though, incase he returns to form. Tom also believes that Torres will come to Milwaukee.
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 04:35 PM
the brewers suck
Posted by: mikeks | December 08, 2007 at 05:07 PM
so does acting like you are 5
Posted by: Aduncaroo | December 08, 2007 at 05:33 PM
The Brewers suck?
Gallardo, Hardy, Braun, Hall, Hart, Fielder, Weekes, Sheets, Capuano, , those are pretty nice pieces. Why do you think they suck?
Posted by: nrmax88 | December 08, 2007 at 05:49 PM
And I will take Gagne on a one year deal over Cordero for 4 every day.
Posted by: nrmax88 | December 08, 2007 at 05:52 PM
Just ask the White Sox how using question marks in the bullpen worked out.
Posted by: gogopalehose | December 08, 2007 at 06:00 PM
Yes, that's genius. Gagne will have a better season than Cordero because the track record of guys coming off of their SECOND Tommy John surgery is just fantastic and nothing to be worried about at all.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 06:02 PM
Muggerd, how so? How is Milwaukee having an "awful offseason"? They have added 4 nice pieces to the pen with Riskie, Mota, Torres, and now Gange. Add Turnbow, Shouse, McClung, and Stetter, and they could be a force in tight games. Plus, Melvin seems determined to find a 3rd baseman to replace Braun and insert him in left. With an added addition of someone like Rolen, or a high on base % man, their lineup will be scary as hell.
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 06:02 PM
I don't think this deal will make riske too happy. He was all but pormised a chance to tryout for the closer role in '08. In fact, his agent said that the chance to be a closer was the main reason he chose the brewers over 4 other clubs.
Notice how the brewers waited until after riske signed to finalize the gagne deal?
they played riske like a card.
Posted by: frogger6 | December 08, 2007 at 06:03 PM
Yes, that's genius. Gagne will have a better season than Cordero because the track record of guys coming off of their SECOND Tommy John surgery is just fantastic and nothing to be worried about at all.
JLAnders, for starters, Mota has only been good when he was on roids. Torres is 37, dealing with an injury, wanted to stay in Pittsburgh to the point that he is now thinking about retiring. The second half ERA of Mota, Torres, and Gagne is terrible.
Riske is a good signing and yeah, all those guys together could work together well, but it's defintley a question mark.
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | December 08, 2007 at 06:05 PM
They dont necessarily believe Gagne will be better than Cordero, but if he isnt, they dont have to pay him for 3+ more years. They understand this is a risk, but if ya got the money to invest, why not?!? Mark Antanasio is determined to improve this Milwaukee franchise at all costs, and has shown it with his increases in the payroll. And with Mike Maddux as the Brewers pitching coach, anything is possible. Remember two years ago at the all star break when everyone thought the Brewers got hosed in the Carlos Lee trade, becase Cordero was awful and washed up? Well, we all know how that ended! Hopefully for Brewers fans, he can help Gagne have a resurgent year in the National League.
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 06:09 PM
That's a stretch Muggerd:
"Melvin also said the Brewers might use a situational closer arrangement that would incorporate more than one pitcher in the role."
"I'm not going to shy away from any role they might have in mind for me," Riske said in a phone interview. "I know most of my success has been in the setup role, but I like the competition that comes with the ninth inning and closing out a game. I like that atmosphere.
"But I'll do whatever they want me to do."
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=260518&ntpid=2
I doubt Riske will cause any problems in team chemistry. Also, if he felt like he could sign as a closer anywhere else, he would have held out for more money and a shorter contract.
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | December 08, 2007 at 06:11 PM
Gagne's problem isn't something Maddux can fix. His arm has had two Tommy John operations.
Also, if Maddux is so great, what happened to Bush, Wise, Capuano, Suppan, and Vargas. Got any bright ideas? Bush, Suppan, and Vargas all have worse numbers since coming over from other teams. If Maddux is great, shouldn't this be the other way around? Wise and Capuano have slowly fallen into crap. Shouldn't Maddux have stopped this?
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | December 08, 2007 at 06:20 PM
I get what your saying about the Bullpen additions being iffy pickups, but they could be very good risk/reward wise. Also, I dont always agree with people refering to age with relievers. Torres sat out 3-4 years during his MLB career because of an injury, and came back very strong. Now i get what you are saying about the injury last year, but its another low risk pickup. Contrary to what some posters have said, the relievers that the Brewers traded for him were never going to see the big club in Milwaukee because they are being blocked by others. This isnt meant to compare him to Rivera stats wise, but Mariano Rivera is 38, Troy Percival is 38, Hoffman is 40, Billy Wagner is 36, etc. etc. With relievers, its all about how the manager handles them, and the flow of the game and season. Again, Brewers bullpen is far from perfect and could still use additions, but better than what i expected Melvin to get.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 06:23 PM
Wait until Thursday when teh Mitchell report comes out!
Posted by: zito4cyyoung | December 08, 2007 at 06:28 PM
the brewers suck
Posted by: mikeks | December 08, 2007 at 06:29 PM
Dave Bush's two years at Milwaukee are better than first two at Blue Jays...as odd as it sounds, Suppan actually had a decent year, in many of his games it came down to the Defense that was behind him. He was a very good innings eater, which is one big reason the brewers wanted him...Vargas also was right around his career averages, so i dont quite understand the comparisons to their past. I agree with you on Capuano, no one knew what was wrong with him. Well, he was releasing the ball at a much higher angle and leaving the ball up in the zone, but no one could set him straight. But he is a very very hard worker, and a good athlete, so i hope they dont give up on him yet. Maddux is far from a miracle worker, but he has helped make nobodys into somebodys. Just saying their is a chance he can help Gagne with some mechanics so less stress on arm, or more importantly helping him mentally after his Boston struggles.
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 06:31 PM
If the Brewers can get something worth while for Sheets, I would do it sooner than later. He has been injury prone and the Brew Crew have collapsed when he hasn't been on the mound. Not a bash on the Brewers but an observation. Don't settle for trash in the open market though, when healthy he still could be a Cy Young caliber pitcher, i'd hate to see the Brew Crew relying on one guy who only gives them 20-25 starts a year, it is refreshing to watch them build their bullpen though. Like another fellow White Sox fan said......look at what a lack of a bullpen can do to a team
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 06:38 PM
"Dave Bush's two years at Milwaukee are better than first two at Blue Jays...as odd as it sounds"
That does sound odd... must because it's not true. Oh right, anyone with the Internet can see that's not true.
Suppan was much better for the Cards, Vargas was around averages, but higher than before. You don't seem to get it. If Maddux is a great pitching coach, these guys should be pitching better than their averages and they are pitching worse.
Maddux has gotten lucky with three or four pitchers, that's it. The majority of his work has not been good. It's like pointing to all the HRs of a guy who hits .240 by saying Maddux is great.
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | December 08, 2007 at 06:39 PM
I see what you are saying about Sheets...the "rumors" with the Dodgers inquiring i was hoping could be a good fit. Ethier or Kemp and Broxton or Kershaw would be a nice aquisition. Hopefully if he stays, he is healthy, because when he is, he is indeed CY Young caliber. Hard to replace those CG and quality starts he provides when healhty.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 06:42 PM
"With relievers, its all about how the manager handles them, and the flow of the game and season."
You are right and Yost showed last year that he doesn't have a clue when it comes to that category.
You are right, Torres is a decent gamble. If I was a fan of a team that needed a bullpen arm (luckily I'm not), I would be mildly excited about picking up Torres for a subpar minor leaguer. Riske is solid, but you have to admit that picking up Mota was a dumb move. He's getting paid something like $3.5M and he will likely bring in a 5.00+ ERA AND AND AND take up a roster spot so they have to get rid of someone cheaper.
One thing I will credit the Brewers for is Mota, Torres, and Gagne can all be gone next year without any financial penalties. Looking at the FA market, they have made the best moves they probably could have.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 06:45 PM
I never said Maddux is a great pitching coach. All I said is "with Maddux, anything is possible." Never once did I say he is good, great, special, etc. Just said anything is possible, because he is a decent pitching coach, and very intelligent. And yes, Soup was better with Cards because of their defense. And Dave Bush's stats are much better per Innings pitched...http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6020....what stats r u looking at?
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 06:46 PM
The fact is that the Brewers, after having lost Linebrink and Cordero, went from having a pen of complete and utter crap, to having one that is now a question mark, and could be average or better. That is good work by Melvin. As a Cubs fan, I was very excited and though it was sure to be their downfall...but now, it still could, but it at least has a chance not to be. Good work by Melvin doing what he could to make it a good deal better than it would have.
Posted by: Aduncaroo | December 08, 2007 at 07:06 PM
the brewers suck
Posted by: mikeks | December 08, 2007 at 07:13 PM
I think the remark someone made earlier about being glad to see Cordero leave the Brewers for the Reds was made with the attitude that the Brewers are much more likely to be competing with the Cubs for the division than the Reds. The Reds still have a lot of wholes in their pitching staff, and a few in their lineup, plus some often injured players. And let's not forget the Reds hired brain-dead Dusty Baker. I can't wait until the honeymoon wears off in Cincy and the Reds fans start calling Dusty the overrated, asleep at the wheel manager he is. Dusty was competitive all those years in SF because he had a veteran team that didn't need motivation. Put him in charge of a younger set of players and it's a disaster. He shows no leadership at all. Kerry Wood said on WGN radio last year that in one game Dusty went out to visit a young pitcher on the mound and his pep talk was, "don't choke or I'll send you to the minors." - What kind of BS is that?
As for Gagne and the Brewers, the signing is a good risk, especially with Turnbow there as insurance if Gagne gets hurt again or throws like he did in Boston. If he ever gets his pre-injury stuff back this is a shifting of power signing.
The other moves the Brewers have made so far have me scratching my head. They paid the going rate for free agent relievers for a mediocre Riske, ok. They traded for Torres who now claims he might retire. They signed washed up Jason Kendall. That's the biggest problem I have with the Brewers offseason. If they decided Estrada was a bad apple and wanted to improve on game calling, then at least get a guy who can catch and throw. Kendall is awful, and that's not including his horrendous hitting.
Then they have a guy who belongs in LF at 3b. A 3b/2b/SS in CF. Another guy who belongs in CF at 2b. That's three spots with subpar defense. Just move those guys around and the team will be better. Put Hall at 3b, Braun at LF, and either move Weeks to CF or trade him for a CF. Hart could play CF in a pinch but I don't know about over the course of a full season, I get the impression his range is somewhat limited. It would be easier for the Brewers to find a serviceable 2b than CF or big bat for RF. Right now, with their defense the way it is, the only decent defenders are Hardy and Hart, and Fielder is surprisingly decent.
Just my two cents, but watching them 17 times a year vs. the Cubs, that's the impression I get.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 07:34 PM
I don't know if I missed it earlier, but anyone know who was supposed to be involved in those "Joe Crede to the Brewers" talks? Haven't heard a lot about it from the Chicago media, except "the daily herald reports a major trade involving Joe Crede is possible as early as this weekend"
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 08:00 PM
Just wondering if you have a link to the daily herald report? thanks
Posted by: JLAnders5621 | December 08, 2007 at 08:08 PM
The Brewers knew they couldn't go into the season with Turnbow as their closer. Good move on their part.
Posted by: FmrFresnan | December 08, 2007 at 08:18 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/CHW
It is in the rumor mill from cbs sportsline: "The Daily Herald speculates a major trade involving third baseman Joe Crede is coming, possibly before the end of the week." (updated: 12/05/2007) But I am trying to find the source of this speculation or was it something someone just made up?
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=90796
loosely mentioned in there.....
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=89345
more so in here.
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 08, 2007 at 08:26 PM
Crede for Gwynn? i think they should sign Eckstien for 2B
2B-Eckstien
SS-Hardy
LF-Braun
1B-Fielder
3B-Hall
RF-Hart
CF-Weeks
C-Kendall
Pitcher
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 08:36 PM
if they get Crede, Hardy prolly leads off with Hart 2nd, Crede 6th
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 08:37 PM
Kenny is looking for a speedy impact "small ball type" player. I thought of a Crede for Corey Hart type deal. Hart isn't speedy but he is they type of player Ozzie and Kenny like. It depends how highly the Brewers value Crede. Last report says Melvin denies any doing with Crede. It is apparent that we the sox want to get rid of him as we have Fields a 40 homer guy potentially but only 1/4 of the defender. Crede is a free agent next year so maybe someone can work out a deal. I think if the Brewers added Crede(for Hart in this situation) you move Braun to left Hall in Center throw Weeks in right and possibly pick up eckstein.....How is Joe Dillion for the Brewers? He have any upside? He can be 3rd and Braun to Left
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 08, 2007 at 08:42 PM
First of all...there would be no way that Hart is traded. Not a CHANCE. I'm guessing that Cappy and a couple prospects are traded to get a LF. Or perhaps Cappy and Hall for Andre Either. We'll have to see. Either way...its a great pick-up for the Brewers. I don't care what any Brewers haters have to say about it.
Looks like Torres is going to retire...that sucks hardcore.
come check out BrewersNation!!! a new brewers blog http://sportsnationjb.blogspot.com
p.s. eckstein sucks a lot
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 08:50 PM
the hart for crede deal will never go down straight up...chi sox would have to add something, and im not even sure the brew need crede or want him. Corey Hart is turning into one of the better defensive outfielders, and has pop and high OBP...Harts 2007: AVG .295 | HR 24 | RBI 81 | OBP .353 | SLG .539 compared to Credes injury plagued season, wont happen. Not saying Crede isnt good good ball player, but not worth Corey Hart to the Brewers. I do like the idea of moving Weeks to CF if it was done a last year. I think its too late, considering he actually adjusted to 2nd and had a pretty good season after working on D hard in the offseason. To bad we couldnt find a guy with Ecksteins intangibles to roam CF
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 08:55 PM
10 mil for 1 Year?????? WHAT!! This immediately in my opinion becomes the worst signing so far of free agency if it goes down and that's the amount, Kaz Matsui is better at his price than one year of a guy that you have no idea what you're getting at 10 million.
Posted by: Grizzlyfox | December 08, 2007 at 09:02 PM
I am pretty sure thats why the Sox and Brewers never got anything done. Brewers weren't too fond of the idea of parting with Hart and I don't blame em. When Crede is healthy he is a gold glove third basemen, without a doubt, he just had to deal with Mr. Chavez in Oakland. Brewers are not in need of a third basemen which is a reason why they sort of scoffed at the idea. I think the Brew Crew have got a good blue print and have really improved their bullpen, I feel they need to plug in the pieces. As I mentioned earlier if you can trade Ben Sheets for a few impact prospects (someone mentioned Kemp and Kershaw) and I thought I read the Mariners being interesed (Adam Jones among a few others) and the Brewers can build a team around their core players of Fielder Hardy Braun Hart etc. Any chances the Brewers make a run at Iguchi? Probably not since I don't think they feel the need to move Weeks to the outfield
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 09:03 PM
there were rumors that Melvin was about to offer a contract to Iguchi...i think this site had something about Iguchi's agent believing the Brew were gonna have an offer to them a few days ago, but never happened. Great defensive glove, and said now that he would play either 2nd or 3rd to improve his FA stock...if the crew dont make a trade for another 3RD basemen such as Rolen (though id like to see Hall there b4 he was moved to CF) Iguchi may be looked at again. It was said here at Tom Haudricourt's blog:
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/05/iguchi-s-agent-expecting-offer-from-brewers.aspx
and here
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2007/12/05/melvin-tempers-enthusiasm-over-iguchi.aspx
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 09:10 PM
Iguchi would solve the Brewers 2 hitter question hands down. Like the 05 White Sox did...put a speedy hitter on Iguchi handles the bat great, he can bunt him over for Braun and Fielder. His defense is underrated and he was a fan favorite here in Chicago. It would make sense for a deal to be done. I am surprised more teams aren't in on the Iguchi sweepstakes. Seems like Iguchi is better than Matsui but maybe Matsui was cheaper.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 09:21 PM
I am a huge Cubs fan and I am really not too worried with this move. Do they have a lefty in the bullpen thats any good. They have picked up all lefties so far. Quote me on this, I dont see the Brewers doing better then 3rd place in the division.
Posted by: uww1 | December 08, 2007 at 09:46 PM
I dont know why they keep signing and trading for right handed bullpen pitchers?!?!?
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 09:54 PM
There really isnt any great relieving lefties available? Jeremy Affeldt? Wow.
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 10:25 PM
Gagne for one year with Boras as his agent? Wow, that's quite a deal.
Posted by: johansantana17 | December 08, 2007 at 10:29 PM
On the comment I made before, That have gotten all RIGHTIES not LEFTIES.
Posted by: uww1 | December 08, 2007 at 11:00 PM
"I thought of a Crede for Corey Hart type deal."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Hart isn't speedy but he is they type of player Ozzie and Kenny like."
Hart stole over 20 bases last year and also hit 24 homeruns.
"It depends how highly the Brewers value Crede."
We don't value him at all since he's not good. Seriously White Sox fans are going to be pissed when they find out that they don't even get a good prospect for Crede.
"I think if the Brewers added Crede(for Hart in this situation) you move Braun to left Hall in Center throw Weeks in right and possibly pick up eckstein"
Wow seriously. You think Crede has ANY value right now? He has a career .305 OBP, is coming off an injury and is a free agent after the 2008 season. He's not worth much of anything.
"How is Joe Dillion for the Brewers? He have any upside?"
How many 32 year old baseball players do you know that have upside?
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 11:09 PM
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071208&content_id=2321524&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 11:34 PM
Look at his numbers in 05 and 06 plus his fielding % in that time frame....I cannot wait til I am the one laughing at you making you eat those words. Who cares about OBP? obviously not the Brewers as they were in serious trade talks with them. Crede's downfall is him coming off an injury. thats it. done. final. end of story.
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 08, 2007 at 11:54 PM
You know nothing about Joe Crede! You are speaking ignorant Crede was a main piece to a world series team and in 06 he won the silver slugger award. I am sick of people like you bringing up career numbers all the time to value players David Ortiz was practicaly given away for nothing and look at him now. You have to be patient with high upside talents. Joe Crede got off to a rough start to his career but was starting to turn the corner as I previously stated above his back is now healthy and he is also a gold glove caliber defender. If he has no trade value right now KW should be fired immediately for dealing crede for a low end prospect. He is a sleeper next year for come back player of the year and would be a valuable player to any team, including the White Sox!
Posted by: | December 08, 2007 at 11:54 PM
Too add on to the poster above.....if it wasn't for a top 5 offensive prospect in Josh Fields coming up behind, we would be saying sucks to you and keeping him. Crede should still say with Sox and Id be mad if they do deal him since hes been a major catalyst to our team. You need a walk off hit you call on crede. AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH low end prospect wow.....come back when you have something productive to add.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 12:08 AM
Okay you guys are right. Crede is so valuable teams are just kicking down the doors waiting to thrust their young talent and top prospects right into Kenny Williams' arms.
It's funny because I got into an argument with a White Sox fan on another board who wanted Claudio Vargas, Carlos Villanueva and Mat Gamel for Jon Garland. I told him Garland wasn't worth that much but he insisted that Garland was worth one reliever and two top prospects. Anybody want to tell me who Garland was traded for?
Posted by: brewersfan729 | December 09, 2007 at 12:42 AM
Tim, heres a Santana update. Its like 5 hours old...
The Minneapolis Star Tribune's La Velle E. Neal III said he was told Saturday, by a well-placed source, that the Twins "have had a lot of good dialogue lately with the Red Sox."
Indications are that the Red Sox and Mets have been chatting the most with the Twins regarding Johan Santana, though the Yankees probably still aren't completely out of it. There's been nothing to suggest the Mariners or Rangers have continued talks or that the Angels ever got into the mix in the first place. It's still possible that something will happen next week.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 12:53 AM
Maybe someone can explain this to me, but what is the deal with players who perform well-below par asking for a raise?
How can Gagne get $10M per with the suspect outings he gave Boston on a regular basis last season? And how can Andruw Jones ask for the world when he hits .220?
If I tried to do that in my job, I'd get laughed at and/or fired.
Is the answer simply the market is dumb enough to give it to them so they ask for it? Or is the better answer Scott Boras?
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 01:20 AM
This is ridiculous. When I heard the crew were gonna sign Gagne I was excited, I figured around 3-5 mill with some incentives to get him up to around 7-9 if IF he performed. I know he was good in Texas and maybe it was just the big stage in Boston that he couldn't handle. But WOW, 10 mil PLUS incentives. Thank god it's only a year.
I usually complain about teams who fall into the Boras trap. No one should of given Gagne and Jones the time of day unless they dropped there talks into a more reasonable offer, This is why the contracts are getting so ridiculous, always one or two teams that desperate. And the Brewers were desperate for bullpen help.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 02:02 AM
I was wondering the same thing about shitty players going in a downward spiral getting raises. I started getting lazy and comfortable at my job, and I got fired!
Posted by: goathedxxx | December 09, 2007 at 02:07 AM
Garland went to the Angels for a gold glove shortstop, an experienced bat, AND a world series winner.....unlike some teams the White Sox are stacked with pitching talent in the minor league so it was an easy choice to let go Freddy Garcia and Jon Garland. And that Brewers to Sox idea for Garland was complete trash. We do not want your washed up type C free agents. Crede has proven what type of player he is. Besides hes NOT a free agent so there is going to be a lack of interest when teams can wait a year and sign him. Wow.....arguing with Sox fans on a different forum...somebody has no life. Whens the last time you guys had a respectable season and DIDNT choke?? oh thats right..
now that that is out of the way....
signing Gagne for 10 mil is too much for the 05 and beyond Gagne. Too many surgeries, too many question marks....maybe it was just the A.L. though. Lets see how he reacts going back to the N.L central.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 02:38 AM
I think that maybe some collusion is needed in baseball among the owners although it'll never happen. The MLBPA would have none of it and I'm pretty sure Scott Boras would file suit as fast as he'll tell you Kyle Lohse is a bona fide ace who deserves $10M a year. (for the record, if Lohse or Silva gets $10M/per then Gagne may become underpaid, based on the market and past performance)
Either way, Gagne won't be Cordero.
First, he appears to have lost his closer mentality (which he may be able to attribute to injuries and a different role in Boston).
Second, he's had so many surgeries that he won't be able to lift the bullpen chairs above his head to throw them into the crowd. I know that was in TEXAS not Milwaukee, but the joke was too good to pass up.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 02:55 AM
"Garland went to the Angels for a gold glove shortstop, an experienced bat, AND a world series winner....."
So you basically traded a World Series winner for a World Series winner an experienced bat that hasn't been good since 2003 and a defender that's on par with the SS you already had according to their range factors and zone ratings.
"And that Brewers to Sox idea for Garland was complete trash. We do not want your washed up type C free agents."
Right because it's not like Villanueva is one of our best young pitchers or that Gamel is one of our top prospects.
"Crede has proven what type of player he is."
Yeah I'm not arguing that. He's proven he's a great fielder and a bad hitter.
"Besides hes NOT a free agent so there is going to be a lack of interest when teams can wait a year and sign him."
Yeah actually he is a free agent after 2008. So that diminishes his value.
"Wow.....arguing with Sox fans on a different forum...somebody has no life."
Oh look personal attacks. When you can't refute my points it's cute how you resort to this trash.
"Whens the last time you guys had a respectable season and DIDNT choke?? oh thats right.."
And this has to do with how Crede is a bad offensive player and has very little value how? Oh wait it doesn't have anything to do with it? You just need to get your potshots in because you can't refute any of my points? Well leave it to a White Sux fan.
Have a nice day asshole I can see you're not worth my time.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 03:03 AM
Lol, you came in here spouting off trash about Crede.....pick up a book and learn a thing or two about baseball and stats and maybe you'll be on my level...you are a joke....So Crede sucks because he has a 315 career OBP wow man! what did you get that off your wheaties box in the morning???? Bad offensive player lol right check again! Lol get a life dude.
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 09, 2007 at 03:49 AM
Lol what points did you make dude? Hes a good fielder and bad offensive player? Please provide proof of these accusations? How many GW hits did he have? I suppose I have to explain that GW means Game Winning? 2006: .283 30 HR and 94 RBI 58 strikeouts in 544 AB's WOW SO HORRIBLE! 2005: 252 22 HRS 62 RBI in 132 ABs 66 K's. AGAIN UNGODLY! But you are absolutely correct he isn't even worth a case of beer!
Hey dude like I said....come back with RELEVANT err I mean STUFF THAT MAKES SENSE. Please.
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 09, 2007 at 03:55 AM
facts*
And if I didn't already make my point he is a career .262 hitter in 6 seasons.....thats horrible man. When he hits the market NOBODY will want him.
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 09, 2007 at 03:57 AM
Career line:
.259/.305/.446/.751
His BEST season in the majors.
.283/.323/.506/.829
So again go ahead thinking Crede has all this value and that the Brewers would even CONSIDER trading Hart for him. I'll be back when Crede is traded for next to nothing pointing and laughing at you.
Posted by: brewersfan729 | December 09, 2007 at 04:07 AM
Did I say they were going to trade him for Hart? I said it would be an idea since Hart is the type of all around player the Sox like. IF Crede is traded for prospects it is because thats the way management handles thing, not because he sucks. And for the record Orlando Cabrera had career highs in almost every offensive category last year....so there goes your 2003 argument.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 04:19 AM
In third season with Angels, led team in runs for second straight season with a career-best 101 runs scored...His career-high 192 hits led Halos and are most ever by an Angels' shortstop...His .301 clip and 86 RBI ranked third among AL shortstops...Led AL shortstops with a .983 fielding pct., second time in three seasons (also 2005) he led AL shortstops...Logged 20 or more stolen bases for third straight season and fifth time in his career...His 155 games played led Angels...Reached base safely in 130 of his 155 games...Batted .311 (56/180) with RISP and .318 (100/314) on the road...Finished 6th in AL with 192 hits and 3rd with 63 multi-hit games...Tied for AL lead with 11 sacrifice flies...Committed first error of season May 4 vs. CWS - the last regular MLB shortstop to commit a miscue...Had walk-off single in 11th inn., June 22 vs. Pitt...Led Angels batting .372 (42/113) in May...Matched career-best with four hits (7th time) and four runs scored (2nd time), June 4 vs. Min...Matched career-best with three stolen bases, Aug. 15 at Tor. (also July 31, 2005 at NYY)...Tied career-best 15-game hit streak May 10-25.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 04:22 AM
"I said it would be an idea since Hart is the type of all around player the Sox like."
Right and the Brewers have said Hart, Weeks and Hardy are untouchable in trades so not only would they not trade him for a closer which they needed at the time they won't trade him for a free agent to be coming off back surgery.
But hey if Crede is traded for a player close to the caliber of Hart or even a player with good upside or a currently good player I'll come on here and eat crow. Deal?
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 04:32 AM
Deal....I will own up to my end of the bargain as well...No hard feelings, just a heated debate that makes it alllll worth while until March 31st!
Posted by: Torii_48_Danny | December 09, 2007 at 04:42 AM
I hope that Torres doesn’t retire. I think that Gagne and the rest of the moves by the Brew Crew this off season put them in a pretty good place. I am not sure how the Cards will look but it’s possible the Crew could be a legit force in the NL Middle. If Capuano can be even a 4.0 era guy they have the possibility of being a very decent team.
How much payroll flexibility does the Crew have left? Would the Brewers go after someone like Brandon Inge? I imagine that if they gave up a decent mid-level prospect the Tigers might eat some of his salary. It might be a good place for Inge. After getting Cabrara I would guess that the Tigers want to free up that salary and get the spot off the 40 man.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 07:24 AM
One more thing... I honestly think that Gagne will be fine this year. I don’t think he liked Boston and being in that situation with Papelbon. He needs to be a closer and being in Milwaukee will be a great spot for him. I like the signing. I am not fond of 10 mil but.. if he pitches like I think he can, it may be worth it. I would LOVE to see the Brewers have a 86-90 win season. (-: as long as the Cubs win 1 more game than they do :-) I like Melvin and think he is doing some great things in Milwuakee. Really think over the next few years the Brewers will be the Twins of a few years ago. A very solid well run smaller market team.
THANK GOD that that team has a new owner!!!
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 07:31 AM
"I think the remark someone made earlier about being glad to see Cordero leave the Brewers for the Reds was made with the attitude that the Brewers are much more likely to be competing with the Cubs for the division than the Reds. The Reds still have a lot of wholes in their pitching staff, and a few in their lineup, plus some often injured players. And let's not forget the Reds hired brain-dead Dusty Baker. I can't wait until the honeymoon wears off in Cincy and the Reds fans start calling Dusty the overrated, asleep at the wheel manager he is. Dusty was competitive all those years in SF because he had a veteran team that didn't need motivation. Put him in charge of a younger set of players and it's a disaster. He shows no leadership at all."
Agreed, the Reds have holes and the Brewers are a better team right now. The poster indicated Cordero leaving the Brewers was better. It does not matter if the Cubs face MIL or CIN, both teams play the Cubs tough. Dusty with the Reds. He lets the players run the clubhouse anyway they want. No leadership and has no handle of pitchers. Watch their staff. I would say in '08 or '09 Harang will have a 'bad flipper' or shoulder due to Dusty's mishandling. Yeah, I can't wait until the Reds fans see him for the manager we know he is in Chicago. I'd love for one of his pitchers or players call up to the booth and tell Marty or Thom they do not know what they are talking about. See how far that goes! For all the Dusty lovers, I am not saying EVERYTHING in Chicago was his fault. I believe the Reds will inprove under Dusty next year...record wise. Just wait, that bubble will pop hard.
Posted by: | December 09, 2007 at 11:56 AM