Bedard Traded To Mariners?

YES...That's what I'm talkin' bout!!!

Next on Seattle's list is Jason Bay in RF!

Bavasi just saved his job beyond 2008.

Who else could the Orioles be getting here? Mike Morse? It can't be a one-for-one.

This trade ROCKS!

The AL West was looking sooooo boring. Now we get to see Felix/Bedard go after the power house Angels.....good times!

Awesome! Finally a big trade!! Santana is NEXT!!!

thank goodness. i hope the saga is finally over.

Felix and Bedard are gona steam roll people.....anything in their path will be destroyed.

Doubt that the O's got Truinfel also.

I think the M's should trade for Crisp now, would give them a great defense and push Ichiro back to right

I hope Roberts to the Cubs is next!

Its going to be a really good battle for the AL west and for the AL wild card.

YES!!! haha now if the mutts don't get santana the division is for the phillies

This is great who are the other players? If it's a one for one the o's got fleeced I don't think thats the case though. Exciting stuff!

I wouldn't call this a done deal for Bedard yet. There has been no proof that he has been traded yet and while I agree Jones leaving his winter team is a sign that he may be traded it does not indicate for who or for what deal. But if this is the case then maybe we wil see a flury of trades this week.

The division is for the Phillies?

Good luck replacing Rowand's overachieving play with Geoff friggin Jenkins.

Can't wait to face Lidge in that bandbox.

The fact of the matter is the NL East is a three team race, and you can't really pick a favorite.

Hell, I'm a Mets fan, and I even refuse to call them the favorites.

Check your homerism at the door please.

Finally, the dominoes are starting to drop. Next up: Santana, Roberts...Crede?

Awesome trade for the mariners, definitely makes them the second best team in the AL West and a possible suitor of the wildcard. If they were also able to hold on to Balentin, Morrow, and Tunifil, it is an even bigger win for them. Adam Jones is very hard to give up, but the mariners needed the pitching to contend, and they have the money to possibly extend bedard.

And oh btw, SJPhilsFan, I do not think the phils are the favorites right now. The Braves have a pretty damn good offense and a staff that is better than the phils. Ill take my braves as the favorites.

For what it's worth, one of the insiders over at Orioles Hangout is reporting that it's a four-for-one deal.

Like I said, for what it's worth.

I couldn't see any less then 4 for 1.

I gotta go the other way. I think this is a big win for Baltimore. They got Jones plus likely a few other very good prospects and have continued to rebuild.

The Mariners aren't exactly a playoff team with this move. They were OUTSCORED last year by 20 runs. IE they should have won 78 games or so last year, not 88. They still can't win the West, and it's doubtful they can really compete for the WildCard AND they mortgaged their future.

The Orioles have the makings of a pretty good team in a couple years if they can deal Roberts for a few guys too.

And this is a non-biased take. I have no affiliation with either team or either teams' rivals.

oh, man. What I am hearing about who the Ms gave up is very interesting.

I think the O's got Adam Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, and Matt Tiuasosopo. If that is the trade, I think the O's won it. Still a good trade for the M's though. now they can seriously compete.

who did you hear?

I just don't see how the Mariners can "compete" if you look at last year. They were outscored by 20 runs last season. Again, that should have been a 78 win season if not for luck/random variance.

How does getting a 160 inning pitcher in Bedard and an average to below average pitcher in Silva, change that into a 90-92 win team? And it's going to take that big of a shift to be a playoff team, at least.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22871543/

MSN is running the story now and has a quote by Jones.

I have heard that there is no George Sherrill in the deal. It's all basically top prospects. I'm trying to figure out who exactly though but as you can imagine, it's a lot (maybe 4 players), and rumors are flying all over the place right this minute.

Everyone at USS Mariner should be put on suicide watch.

I think the mariners did what they did in order to be able to contend over the next few years while their lower level talent develops.

You are right djskilbr but if they get a good year from sexson and pickup an outfielder like bay they'll be right there. I think bedard really helps
hernanez-lackey
bedard-escobar
silva-weaver
washburn-Saunders
bautista-garland
Still give an advantage to LA but it's closer.

Right this minute I am hearing a major haul for the Os:

OF Jones
SP Tillman
C Clement
??????

FOR

Bedard

Nice!!!

thanks b-monkey
I could see jones,tillman,clement and a b-level. If this is true I'm drooling right now.

I havent heard Clement at all, wheres that from?

OK...
1.) What does this have to do with the NL East? Phillies and Braves fans, shut up (You rae both wrong anyway, Mets are the favorites)

2.) Basemonkey, "you are hearing" where are you getting this from

3.) Good deal for Seattle; they needed pitching to contend and they now have a very good pitching staff

Totally unconfirmed. You won't be able to really trust a thing until the dust settles a bit.

Another thing now though is that Rosenthal is reporting the rumor too. So, with him, you'd think he'll take the time to confirm certain things. He hasn't gone beyond what has already been said, that is, Jones is involved and flying back to the US. The other players in question are still murky.

I am glad its over with maybee the Cubs could get Robert now.

So now the O's need some pitching. Time for Hendry and the Cubs to again offer up Marshall, Gallagher, and Patterson for Roberts.

www.sciencefictionbaseball.com has an interview with Tim Dierkes.

well i have to say i am worried about the braves. but i am not worried at all about the mets

Or if the O's are truely stupid: Marshall, Marquis, and Patterson for Roberts.

joemorgan, you're right, but a LOT of things would have to go right for them to truly contend, like last year, which just isn't likely again for at team to be that lucky.

Also, to get Bay, who could they possibly give up? They don't have much left to deal. I just don't see it.

Mariners will sign Wilkerson now, I think.

I think if they offered up morrow and balentin for bay thats a good start point.I don't think the m's would do this but it is a possiblity.Would you?
My hope for the orioles is roberts for galager,marshall,and cedeno.After these deals the orioles will be okay in 2010 after all these terrible contracts are gone.

Yeah tim wilkerson sounds right but if they really want to be in play this year thy need something bigger then that.

These means that the Os have added:

CF Adam Jones
SP Chris Tillman (unconfirmed)
C Clement (unconfirmed)
?? ?????????? (unconfirmed)
SP Troy Patton
OF Luke Scott
SP Matt Albers
RP Dennis Sarfate
3B Michael Costanzo

FOR

SP Erik Bedard
SS Miguel Tejada

And, it looks like a Roberts trade is imminent as well. You just can't see the Orioles keeping Roberts at this point if the rebuilding is on in full force. Hill is out of play without Bedard but all of a sudden, you're not even sure if the Os have the roster slots to add Pie even if they wanted to (not assuming that he'd be part of the trade). Seeing that I think you might have to assume that the Os trade of Roberts will see some pitchers coming back.

How are you not worried about the Mets, you idiot? They had a 7 game lead with 17 to go, and they had an historic collapse stop them, but this is the same team that led the division the entire year...and dont forget they are getting Santana...Lidge is terrible, especially in Philly's ballpark, he is gunna be destroyed, and the Philly rotation is probably worse than the Mets (Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque, Pelfrey) AND thats without Santana..the Phillies rotationis Hamels, Myers, Moyer (lol) Kendrick (haha) and Eaton (not even worth a laugh) and thats just the pitching staffs...the Phillies have a below average outfield with Burrell, Victorino, and Jenkins/Werth, and a huge hole at third base..the Mets have a much better outfield/third base situation with Beltran, Alou, Church, and Wright (good luck trying to match that) and the Mets have a better bullpen (Wagner, Heilman, Sanchez, Feliciano, Wise, Smith, Burgos, and Sosa) vs. (Lidge, Gordon, etc.)..and again, phillies fans, this is before Santana is traded to the Mets, and possibly Livan Hernandez to eat up 225 innings and let Pelfrey be another reliable reliever...good luck phils

Get it done MacPhail. Orioles would have no need for Pie now because they have all outfield spots filled. Don't forget Jay Payton is under contract.

Just curious, but why would the O's want Clement in the deal? They already have Wieters.....don't they?

If the Orioles have half a brain they will trade roberts. As a current orioles fan I'm not concerned if that will happen. I'm concerned about guys like payton,huff,millar and hernandez. These guys might have a little value to someone who will contend next year so I'm hopeing we can get something going here.

Clement is convertable to a corner position, like first base. They have very little power in the minors for this spot, and Kevin Millar is not a long-term option obviously.

Ya, Pie doesn't really add anything to the O's at this point. He's much less of a talent than both Markakis and Jones. O's are really building. Good job by McPhail.

joemorgan, no I wouldn't give up those guys for Bay because then you're still in the "maybe" contender section and you have ZERO future. Just doesn't make sense.

Tim, I agree with you on Wilkerson. I'd guess he's next.

dude who the hell hacked my account

Sqweeek, I think wieters isn't a guarantee and clement could move to first base if needed. It's also nice to have as many good prospects as possible.

"Clement is convertable to a corner position, like first base."

Maybe, but from everything I've read about Clement isn't he suppose to be good defensively behind the plate? Seems odd that they would trade for him and convert him. My guess would be they would convert Wieters before doing that to Clement.

hahaha just wait and see met fans it will be braves verse the phillies most of the year

"Ya, Pie doesn't really add anything to the O's at this point. He's much less of a talent than both Markakis and Jones."

Sorry to say but I think Pie and Jones are pretty similar. I am not a fan of either and don't think either one will turn into anything special. Markakis is a stud though.

There has been talk of Clement's availibility to move to 1B at some point. It's not as if his defense at C is what makes him a bonafide backstop C. Unfortunately the Orioles has had a gaping blackhole at 1B for the better part of this decade. That being said, it's not as if Wieters is ready to play today, afterall, he hasn't even played in a regular minor league season game once yet. So projecting him to fast-track will still mean a couple years. Irregardless of how it works out, it's not a bad problem to have if you have a quality stick at C/1B.

The Mariners' rotation will be vastly improved next year with a lot less strain on the bullpen. Bedard and Silva instead of HoRam and Weaver? Gotta make the deal. Hopefully they got away without giving up Clement, though.

..an extra quality stick I meant. We might be back here in a few years talking about trading Clement. Who knows?

weiters is going to be a stud but he is not ready yet, tho defensively he has the major league catching skills
i think clement might be able to start now and they could always use him to bring back something in a trade when weiters is ready
plus now they can move ramon hernandez before the deadline if he plays well and increases his value
for an organization that hasnt had a young catcher in a very long time having two is not a problem

Don't discount Clement's value as a tradechip for Baltimore. It's the same principle as drafting the best available talent rather than drafting to positional needs. If you can get a potentially solid player at a position where talent is scarce, then you do it, stash him, and worry about spinning him later.

i think that although wieters isnt a guarentee, he is almost as close as you can get to being an everyday player in the majors. not saying he will be but the kid can hit like none other. ive actually heard people project him to be in the majors by this september.

Clement's defense is far below average at C. That was even noticeable at USC. He can easily be a 1b. But I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up a DH. His bat is very good though.

Great, great deal for the Orioles.

Clement is vastly overrated when it comes to his offense, Wieters is a far better prospect though obviously not as MLB ready. Not that any of this matters as he hasnt been referenced in the Bedard trade by anyone other than basemonkey.

Bedard is a huge addition! The offense is going to be anemic though. Now they are thinking about Wilkerson? Yuck.

Great rotation (at huge cost) and a crap offense isn't going to cut it.

Looks like Hendry's got Macfail by the balls now. Give em Gallagher and Marquis for Roberts.

Make it happen!!!

Huff to the Cubs with the Roberts deal - hmmmmm???
Another lefty in the lineup!
That would be awesome!!!

"Looks like Hendry's got Macfail by the balls now. Give em Gallagher and Marquis for Roberts"

How exactly do you figure that? McFail said all along he wanted to deal Bedard FIRST and then worry about Roberts. It's not like he has to trade Roberts.

"Looks like Hendry's got Macfail by the balls now. Give em Gallagher and Marquis for Roberts"

No, not Marquis. We want Rich Hill...

"No, not Marquis. We want Rich Hill..."

Zero chance now

Yeah, with Bedard off the table, Hill is as well

Cubs sorry guys we need at least gallagher and marshall. And really you might have to throw in cedeno. I would love to give you another guy and just eat his whole contract. Maybe huff or payton. Payton seems like a better matchup. At least you guys would get a decent backup in case pi blows.

ACCORDING TO ROCH OF THE SUN, BEDARD HAS NOT BEEN TRADED YET.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2008/01/no_longer_waiting.html

Gallagher, Marshall, and Patterson was the original rumor for Roberts anyways. I'm all for it and if they throw in Huff.....great.

Don't believe Roch. He's just pissed because the Baltimore Sun was scooped again.

Not sure what to think...but Roch saying so or not to me means quite a bit. He's one of those guys who has a direct line to MacPhail and can call him or anyone else in the Os org up. Not that Roch would have anymore leverage to get the absolute truth, but he does have access.

Not sure what to think anymore.

Hot off the Sun, McPhail denies any trade. Yet Jones is still flying into Baltimore tomorrow... strange offseason.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0127,0,5598077.story

if roch is right, then why would jones say he is coming to baltimore tommorrow. im sure he is not coming just to get his hands on a high quality crabcake topped with old bay.

Now we are back where we atarted. MacPhail has denied all the rumors.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0127,0,5598077.story

so far I can find nothing that says a trade has been completed. I think Tim should have ended the title with this????????

of course the trade is not completed, all players involved have to pass physicals.

does anyone think that with the impending bedard trade that the angels, feeling threatened by the m's, make an offer for santana?

Exactly. How are these stories in conflict at all? It just means physicals still have to be taken, which is consistent with the first reports, and Jones' comments.

Churchhill has been stating that Bavasi's final offer included:

Jones/Sherrill/Tillman + low level prospect

But it's not sounding like Sherrill is in the trade now?!

God I hope Bavasi kept Clement. I'm BIG on his power LHB in our lineup for cheap & club controlled for the next 6 years!

Clement could platoon in 2008 and beyond with Johjima and spend 25% of his time backing up Johjima...and the other 75% DHing for us. I'm totally expecting Bavasi to resign Johjima prior to 4/1/08, even "if" Clement wasn't traded. But more so "if" Clement is traded!

"Now we are back where we atarted. MacPhail has denied all the rumors."

Of course, we all know that the cubs are going to get Bedard AND Roberts for 7 players who amount to a steaming pile of medicority...LMFAO!!!!

"Gallagher, Marshall, and Patterson was the original rumor for Roberts anyways"

Yes and that will get shot down as well. I think MacPhail has already let Hendry now..quality, not quantity. Anybody out here spoutting that Hendy has MacPhail by the balls should get a clue. Roberts is gonna cost at least one elite/difference maker propsect for this to get done. Any combination of Marshall, Cedeno, Gallagher, Patterson aint gonna cut it.

I swear if this one doesn't go down, I'm going to freak out. I can't take this messing with my emotions.

Tim, I love your site but you can't keep jacking with me.

Please, please make this deal happen. I don't even have a horse in this race, but we need some dominoes to fall.

Um, forlife61, you must have me mistaken for a Cubs fan.

Gallagher and marshall project between #3-5 starters and add cedeno I don't think roberts alone is more valuable then that.As an orioles fan I'm amped by that offer. I would also love, LOVE to throw in Huff. The quicker we can gt these guys out of here the better!

No base, I didnt. You actually make pretty intelligent, thought out remarks out here..so no I didnt think you were a cubs fan. I was just being sarcastic. I do expect this deal to go thru though. When it does I hope a certain fanbase sees how far off they were with their asinine proposals.

To all you Mariners fans who want Jason Bay--

We just traded Jones for Bedard (unofficially, but it's imminent). I'm all for trading Jones. But, I don't want to trade Balentien for Bay. That's not a good deal. We can sign Wilkerson for 1 year until Balentien is ready for the full-time duty. Balentien is what it would take for Bay, at minumum. Not going to happen.

but u have to realize that even though they project them to be there, they probaly wont. i see marshall as a decent releiver in the mlb and gallagher and cedeno will disappear in the next 3-5 years.

I think it's interesting that MacPhail said Jones was not coming to Baltimore for a physical. Why the hell would Adam Jones lie to a reporter in Venezuela and tell them he was going to Baltimore for a physical and that he was the "centerpiece" of the Bedard deal? Seems weird. I guess MacPhail is just trying to cover his own ass in case someone doesn't pass a physical.

Congrats M's fans. Nice deal.

Muck the Fets!

I disagree donny. I think marshall would be a great #3 starter for us and gallagher would be awesome at #5. I think cedeno can be an average to slightly above average ss. Kind of like betancourt. With a higher ob and add 5-10 sb. That's a lot of value for roberts alone.

I've literally been smoking too much wacky tobacky. Should just shake out better for the Roberts trade on the Cubs side.

If sherrill is really in this deal hopefully we can flip him for something a little more desireable. Or maybe walker is out the door.

I'm always careful to talk about Cubs prospects here because it sets off such a chain reaction. All in all, when you see young pitchers who project to be #3-5 SPs, they generally end up being marginal players over the course of their careers. A big part of projection comes from evaluating basic fundamental things that just won't change much as they grow older, like velocity and stuff. A lot of the true #3 SPs of the league today were actually #1 projected guys who fell short for one reason or another. A lot of the #3-5 projected guys in baseball just 5 years ago are out of baseball completely.

They said the trade has not been 'completed' that usually means there needs to be some physicals taken. Its not done until then.

I'm really making a statement on how crazy peoples idea of roberts value is. Even if two of those three become league average in their respectable psotions I feel it's worth it. I just don't see any team making a better offer then that and no one is going to give us a true impact prospect for him.

Yeah, but you guys aren't looking at Gallagher very closely if you think he will be a 5 at best. He has Adam Miller minor league numbers with a great ground ball ratio, and he is a horse. What is it about the guy you don't like? Seriously...he will probably be better than Marshall, and I don't dislike Marshall. Cedeno has mashed in AAA, which is why I am really hoping we give you Patterson instead. If there is a position of need for the Cubs, its SS. Cedeno may go out and win that job this year.

I think the best trade from the Cubs standpoint would be Marshall, Veal, and Patterson, but that would have to mean that no one else would beat that, and I don't know how true that is.

To the Marshall/Gallagher/Cedeno for Roberts/Huff stuff…

The Cubs wouldn’t be able to put both Roberts and Huff on the 25-man roster. They are having to move Murton just so they can add a back-up CFer (either Byrd from trade or Patterson/Fuld from the minors taking Murtons roster spot). Ward would have to be released to add Huff onto the team ~ seems pointless…

People really have to stop with just randomly throwing players names out there as possible additions. The Cubs in particular have no room to put anyone; they are trying to squeeze like 30 guys into 25 spots as it is. Sure, their fans might like to add all these ML guys, but that doesn’t mean it could ever work in the real world…

ALSO, this isnt even a Cubs/Roberts thread ~ why is that even being talked about? And its not like you cant find an actual Cubs/Roberts thread to talk about this in ~ there are like two going on at all times... This is the reason so many posters complain about Cubs fans and this site being so Cubs biased, no matter what, Cubs fans seem to try and make 50% of the posts into Cubs threads...

"Sure, their fans might like to add all these ML guys, but that doesn’t mean it could ever work in the real world…"

It was O's fans talking about it, NOT Cubs fans. Read it again.

Seems that if all those threads are getting a ton of posts, than Tim is probably doing the right thing by starting them. Isn't that the point? To deliver the latest rumors and let us discuss them? Is that not alright with you?

I'm an Orioles fan. I brought it up. It's a discussion. Just having fun brainstorming.

It's not our fault that the other fans can't compete with us Cub fans on the comments.

It's not that it's bad to talk about the Cubs, but for baseball fans who come from everywhere, it is pretty random that they'll come into, say, a Dodgers-Jays thread and then the post gets taken over by Cubs fan coveting the best players from each squad. Myself personally I would have to say that that is the one thing that ruins this site sometimes.

All the rumors are cubs involved right now anyway I don't think thats being biased I think it's just the reality right now.

I completely agree basemonkey.... seems like it happens to every thread.

You don't have to read the content you don't want to. And yes, everything with Bedard and Roberts has Cubs fans swarming right now. Sorry, but thats what the rumors do. But it just goes to show you how many passionate fans the Cubbies have, and thats a good thing. Even if you don't like it, no one is making anyone read it. Just skip it. Even if many of them are dumb baseball wise, I'm just happy that we have that many fans that are passionate about the team and not only reading up about it, but talking to people who do get it. Thats how dumb fans get smarter, which is a great thing about this site. Relax guys...

A few sites I've seen suggest that it might be Jones, Tillman, Sherrill, and a lesser but close to ML ready pitcher.

FWIW, Jon Heyman at SI says Clement is NOT involved in the deal.

"Seems that if all those threads are getting a ton of posts, than Tim is probably doing the right thing by starting them. Isn't that the point? To deliver the latest rumors and let us discuss them? Is that not alright with you?"

Read it again ~ I said *this thread* isnt about the Cubs; Tim never mentioned the Cubs and this thread wasnt started to talk about the Cubs ~ its about the M’s and O’s…

I imagine some people might like to talk about the M's or O's (the two teams this thread is about) and if they wanted Roberts/Cubs info they would probably go to Roberts/Cubs thread (which like I said, there are generally two going on most of the time to find such info in). So yeah, I think, for the curtsey of everyone, that the topics should probably stay in the proper threads ~ esp on big news ones like this.

Is that alright with you, or do you feel everyone should just have every thread as a Roberts/Cubs discussion?

Dark, let's get to the real issue....what's up with Roberts to the Cubs?

It went to Roberts because many people, INCLUDING O's FANS, are wondering what they are going to get for him. Is that not alright with you, discussing that? Frankly, me and many others don't really care what you think. I was having a disussion with some Cubs and O's fans about what McPhail might get for Roberts now. I read your post. *this thread* had O's fans bringing up Roberts and the Cubs, and what they might get back for him because of the massive reloading they are doing. Get over it. Either read it or skip it, but either way, just do us a favor and shut up.

As long as they got an equal replacement for Clement, I think its a good idea as Weiters is going to be a stud.

MacPhail denied trade. I sure wish he would get this done, Bedard needs to be traded.

If that hack Heyman is that emphatic that Clement is not in the deal, then so long Jeff Clement.

Heyman is an idiot.

Lets read your post again for a second dark, because its kind of ironic here. First, you go into the whole Roberts to the Cubs and why other players won't work in it....

then you go on to say no one should be talking about Roberts to the Cubs stuff. What a MFing retard.

Wow, every rumors site has said that the Cubs may be in on the Bedard race. So when Bedard gets traded to another club, is it any surprise that the Cubs are brought up?

"This is the reason so many posters complain about Cubs fans and this site being so Cubs biased, no matter what, Cubs fans seem to try and make 50% of the posts into Cubs threads..."

Is this comment necessary when the whole Cubs thing wasn't started by
Cubs fans, but a O's fan & basemonkey? I could understand it in a thread about the Tigers trying to extend Granderson, but this whole anti-Cubs fans crap is really annoying.

Adun,

…Listen, I know it gets your panties in a twist every time I say anything, but come on dude ~ the obsession is way past pitiful…

But ok, I’ll humor you for a second ~ basemonkey & thenerbster posted instantly after I did agreeing with what I said because I am out of line, right?

And while I’m posting to you:
“As long as they got an equal replacement for Clement, I think its a good idea as Weiters is going to be a stud.”
…What does that mean? You do realize the O’s would actually have both Clement and Weiters if the trade as rumored is true, right?

Pinetar,

You do realize that it wasn’t Anti-Cubs, right? It was “hey, there is actually a Roberts/Cubs thread; why is this in here?” post. But again, see others agreeing instantly after I said it…

As far as what to believe about this deal being done or not, I think it is pretty obvious if you stop and think about it that it is all but done. Adam Jones said himself he felt bad that he was pulled off the Winter team that was in the middle of a post-season series! He didn't want to leave and wasn't hurt but was being forced to leave by Seattle management. Seems pretty odd for that to happen UNLESS there was a deal in place.

Andy Macphail loves two things: denying trade rumors and sweater vests

Darkstar,

What I love is that you couldn't resist answering the question about the Cubs' roster before complaining that it shouldn't be on this thread. (It's not a bad thing, dude, it's just you.)

That said, I agree that not every thread should devolve into a Cubs thread. In this instance, however, it is completely justified. The fate of Bedard and Roberts and of the M's, O's, and Cubs are fatefully intertwined at this moment.

"[Mariners GM Bill Bavasi] called me yesterday and told me the news. I've got to go to Baltimore tomorrow morning and handle things there," Jones told a reporter from Diario Panorama in Venezuela, according to the Times. "I'm the centerpiece of the deal on the Mariners side.

Either Jones has a hard time understanding the English language, or McFail and everyone else is now trying to cover the deal up until it is finalized.

Oh, Bavasi! This is one re-worked rotation. Felix, Bedard, and Washburn with excellent innings-eaters in Silva (great signing) and Batista. Morrow and Putz will be killer at the end... How do you like me know!

Sorry I was a part of it guys. I just think it's all conected and it shouldn't matter. Obviously what they get for bedard will directly influence what they get for roberts.

Basemonkey, a person you say proved your point, started the serious Roberts to Cubs conversation. Kinda makes your whole argument hollow. Like I said, in another thread, you would have a good point, but in this one, the Cubs talk is valid.

On another note, if Sherill goes to the O's, could he possibly be the closer for '08?

Cubs fans, feel free to chime in on the future of Yuniesky Betancourt? (Which makes me think, by the way, that Yuniesky may be poor Ronnie's ceiling: good talent, no power, SB, or BB.)

YOu have nothing to apologize for joemorgan. Nothing.

Dark,
Obsession? Please. Get over yourself.

I thought as long as the got a just as good of a deal without Clement that they were doing the right thing, because they already have Weiters...is that really difficult to understand for you? I think its great how you post about the Roberts to the Cubs topic as THE FIRST THING YOU EVEN SAY ON THIS THREAD, then go on to say no one should be posting about Roberts and the Cubs. Seriously, I can't believe you are that dumb.

So, Dark...what do you think about Roberts to the Cubs?

JrFukudome,

I did it so people didnt just ignore the second half and continue down the same conversation. The first part of my post ideally catches the eye of the Cubs/O's trade posters and stops the possible ideas, the second part questions why its in this location instead of where it should be...

I dont disagree that the Cubs are semi involved in this, but this trade would be big news and this particular thread wouldnt be the place to be having that conversation in, I imagine, many peoples eyes... People agreeing after I posted leads me to believe I was correct… Just like people didnt care for the Mets/Phillies/Braves stuff even though the Mets are just as effected as the Cubs are...

And I think the biggest thing now would be this ~ why is it when people ask why a non-topical discussion is being held, and say that its pretty much the reason the site gets a rep as Cubs-Biased (or why Cubs-Fans get a rep as being a obnoxious) would Cubs fans go on the defensive? Wouldn’t that lead to just more people saying the site is Cubs-Bias and that Cubs-Fans are obnoxious ~ you know, the thing Cubs-fans get so upset about… Wouldn’t just accepting the fact that others might want to talk about other things and holding the Cubs/Roberts talk in the Cubs/Roberts threads are a more logical way of protecting against the thing Cubs-fans are fighting against?

It was actually a Cubs fan that started it, O’s fans kept it up and it snowballed. When it was mentioned that maybe it should be held elseware, why not just hold it elseware? There was no need to talk about someone saying it should be held elseware, there is no reason to defend against being asked to hold it elseware, and there was no reason for anyone to say they are sorry because they were involved in it ~ just let the topic go back to what it should have probably been and its done… Ok?

Pie and Gallagher for Roberts? Thats stupid...Dont do it Jim. Give them someone else not Pie

I can't imagine that they would want pie after trading bedard. There is no way the cubs want to drop him either.Lofton would be good but he can only get like 400 at bats and pie is better defensively. Gallagher is in there but another pitcher will do it. I know I've said it 80 times now but gallagher,marshal and cedeno. Sherril closing? No thanks. I really can't see why he's in the deal unless we can flip him with roberts maybe. I could see sarfate and maybe hoey there this year but we'll see.

Ronnie Cedeno is nothing more a potential Yuniesky Betancourt. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Mariners fans, put her f&%kin' champagne down long enough to enlighten us on this issue! Is there any love for Yuniesky?

If this or this and a Wilkerson move is the last one for the M's, I'm willing to bet any Mariners fan that the club doesn't even win as many games as last year, 88, this year.

Any takers?

the .711 ops for betancourt is cause for oncern. I think cedeno gets on a little more with 5-10 more sb

Remember Betancourt was considered a kind of prodigy, was he not?

Pie AND Gallagher is too much for Roberts. Gallagher and Sam Fuld or Eric Patterson is MORE than sufficient.

Marshall, Veal, and Patterson.

Colvin is out too, they have too many outfielders...they want pitching prospects, at least they should if they are smart. That proposal gives them two, and Patterson as well. Good trade for both teams. Gallagher would be better than Veal for the O's...but as a Cubs fan, I'm hoping we can keep him.

Oh please tell me it's true we will sens another veteran to the M's!! Huff or Payton would just make my day.

F' it, dark star. I don't think there are any Mariners fans out there.

Can we switch Veal with Gallagher and patterson with cedeno Aduncaroo? Please!

I don't know why but Juan Encarnacion pops up into my mind when I think of Pie. Along with him he came up with 1B Tony Clark and C Raul Casanova as Tigers top prospects. All of them were toolsy athletes with strong flashes of talent and the Tigers promoted them based on tools projections and ignored strikezone issues. Casanova had a great age 22 run. Clark was fast-tracked in spite of bad strikezone numbers because he had projectable power. In his 20s he had consecutive 30 HR seasons before he hit FA. Of the bunch the most legit is Juan Encarnacion who has worked out a pretty solid ML career. He never reached the 20-20 Beltran-esque superstar projections he enjoyed as a young 20 yr old, but he did turn out to be a solid ML player, albeit an average one.

To me an average legit ML player over a long period of time is a pretty solid player. I know that we may have a lot of young fans here who is having their first tastes of top prospects today in guys like Pie. Though for some of us who have followed baseball for a few decades understand, many average solid players today were actually top prospects at some point themselves. And baseball history is littered with players who have a good season a few years and then disappear. The one thing that keeps this projection going is the myth of linear progression.

"Heyman then goes on to add that the O's might send Brian Roberts to the Cubs for Sean Gallagher and Felix Pie if they finish the Bedard deal."

Now its even part of the thread! Are we allowed to talk about it now dark? I guess that writer is an idiot for writing about Roberts and the Cubs in the same article because its too big of news to share...whatever.

Yes joemorgan, you are smart for asking it too. I am hoping McPhail isn't as smart...because those are the two of all of those players mentioned that I would really like to keep.

Knowing our track history Adun I don't think you have to worry.

"Now its even part of the thread! Are we allowed to talk about it now dark? I guess that writer is an idiot for writing about Roberts and the Cubs in the same article because its too big of news to share...whatever."

...yet you arent obsessed, right?

CF Jones
SP Tillman
RP Sherrill
SP Tony Butler
SP/RP Kameron Mickolio

FOR

SP Bedard
?? ??????

That's a solid haul for the Os if true. The Os trade Bedard to a pitchers park team with a chance (Good for Bed!), and the Os get a franchise OF, 2 high potential #1 SP prep arms in Tillman and Butler, a veteran RP in Sherrill, and a quality arm to enter the mix right now in Mickolio. The Ms would have dealt a ton of pitching on top of Adam Jones. In a way, this might be a better deal than the rumored Clement one. In the meantime the Ms were able to hold onto both Morrow and Triunfel which they reportedly deemed "untouchable."

Interesting.

I see this as another bad move for the Mariner's management. The M's won't contend for anything in 2008 and thanks to Bavasi they won't contend again in 2009. Bedard is a great pitcher that will ave a good year but he is not the savior for Seattle. The only thing not making this the worst deal of the off season is the Silva signing.

Yes the pitching as a whole will be better next year. The Mariners will also have the worst outfield defensively in the AL and that is with one of the top 5 defensive CF's. Not to mention a lineup full of groundball hitters that won't scare anyone.

I will always be a Mariner's fan but I can't wait till the current management is gone. It seems like they keep putting off the inevitable, and that is a full orginizational rebuild.

The Orioles already had a very underrated system as it was after the Tejada trade. I think adding two arms like Tillman and Butler definately helps. they might go 12 or 13 deep in B prospects. The reason why they are underrated is because of a ton of C+ guys who could be B prospects with a good run here or there. After a Roberts trade the Orioles system would look pretty strong.

At last count SI and Rosenthal were reporting that Roberts may possibly command Pie-Gallagher. If that's the case, the system is even stronger. It's not as if they were bereft of pitching prospects before any of these trades. They could end up having pitching depth consisting of Patton, Liz, Olson, Penn, Spoone, Tillman, Butler, Arrieta, Beato, Bascom, Erbe, roughly in that order. Consider that the last guy there, Erbe, is a 19 yr old who throws 97 mph and if he were entering the draft now, he'd be a 1st rounder. Are you telling me we could add even more pitching to that crop? woh.

Dude, the best part is: You keep Morrow, Trunfiel, and Clement. How can Mariners fans complain?

So who's better? Bavasi, Shapiro, or Beane?

Agree 100% Base...

But think about it from the M's side and about what that Rotation he would be in...

Felix
Bedard
Silva
Washburn
Batista
And possibly Marrow taking over for someone

…That in a pitchers park, in a division with 2 other pitchers parks... The M’s look to be trying to capitalize off their situation and build a team based off the strong points of their situation instead of trying to just build the best team. It worked great last year with them surprising some people and ending up with a better record than the team seemingly should have gotten; this new rotation would have an even better chance of over-producing themselves and this team may very well be a WC competitor…

Pie and Gallagher = no way

I would take Shapiro over Bavasi any day.

I do like the new rotation I just don't think it is enough to make this a contending team in the near future.

Id have to say Beane is still # 1 , followed by Shapiro, then Bavasi is somewhere after.

Why doesn't the cubs deal Vitters instead of Pie ?

Orioles could use a thirdbasemen more then a cf, and it's not like the cubs need Vitters anytime soon.

I hope the Cubs do well this season whatever happends !

"So who's better? Bavasi, Shapiro, or Beane?"

Thems is jokes right? sarcasmy and whatnot.

Assuming Sherril's gone and they have Bedard now, Morrow will be the set-up man and would not expect that to change mid-season, even if he would make the best SP alternative. They will do that next offseason if they need to. I see Morrow sticking in the 'pen.

Thank you, Arod, it was a joke. I was getting worried...

All these prognostications make me laugh! I mean, I think the Mariners gave up a little too much, but they win the trade if Tillman and Butler blow out their arms. The attrition rate for young pitchers is extremely high. And while Jones may have the tools for superstardom, he has the plate discipline for above-averagedom. Don't get me wrong, 6 years of Jones are worth more than 2 of Bedard, but the M's think they can compete now and this certainly improves their chances.

If they get someone like Luke Scott back in the deal, I think it ends up being pretty fair. If its only Bedard, then the Orioles win.

Sorry jrfukodome, I am a little bent outta shape about this trade.

They "only" got Bedard... Dude...

You know it's a bad deal when the fans on the bad end start talking about the liklihood of injuries of the guys they gave up. Injuries with pitchers is always a possibility, but with the amount of pitching the Orioles have stockpiled now, I doubt they'll be able to rush them even if they wanted to. It's almost a logjam at every level if they add Tillman and Butler.

Whenever this deal is finalized, the Roberts trade is next and I think Cubbies fans will surprised at what they would have to give up. It's not that I undervalue Cubs prospects at all. They have some very good ones. It's just that they are a little over-hyped in Chi-town so much so that whoever they are I bet we'll see plenty Cubs fans unhappy on these boards.

CF Adam Jones
LF Luke Scott
SP Chris Tillman
SP Tony Butler
SP Troy Patton
SP Matt Albers
RP George Sherrill
RP Kameron Mickolio
RP Dennis Sarfate
3B Michael Costanzo

FOR

SP Erik Bedard
SS Miguel Tejada

That is rebuilding. These guys are thrown into the mix along with their previous crop. These guys are all young but in '08 these are the guys who will probably play in the majors, not counting what's already on the farm:

RF Nick Markakis
CF Adam Jones
SP Jeremy Guthrie
SP Adam Loewen
SP Dan Cabrer