The Dodgers placed shortstop Rafael Furcal on the DL today, and MLB.com's Ken Gurnick says they're trying to acquire an emergency replacement. Furcal will be eligible to return on May 21st. He's been perhaps the game's best hitting shortstop to date.
Perhaps the Rays' Andy Cannizaro would make sense? The Dodgers have been using Chin-lung Hu at short; despite his lack of offense it may be best to just stick with him.
Trade Theriot while his stock is WAY higher than it ever should be to the Dodgers for a piece of whatever the Padres want for Khalil Greene, including Pie. While I would regret giving up Pie, Greene would absolutely rake in Wrigley.
ill give you julio lugo for a really really good roast beef sandwich with mustard mayo and tomatos, some french fries a pickle and some lays potato chips, but even then i still think youd be getting the short end of the stick...
Sure, Hu hasn't had success in the majors with the stick, but to expect a "lack of offense" is a little harsh. The guy posted .800+ OPS in AA and AAA, and had OPS of mid-.700s at the lower levels. He looks to project adaquate with the stick at the SS position, if not better.
Yeah Hu does project to be decent, but right now he's pretty underwhelming.
I say the Dodgers should get a little creative and bring LaRoche back up. I know he doesn't have the range for SS, but he has a strong bat and would only be a temporary fix, with Hu as the late inning defensive switch.
I'm with you on this cincy, they don't need Alex Gonzalez on the Reds. He's an extra piece with no value to them currently... As it is, they have Freel, Hairston, and Hopper begging for playing time, it removes the issue of "a player can't be replaced by someone because of injury." Sure they can, I know, but it's considered an unwritten rule or some other form of diplomacy between a manager and his players, mostly done to keep guys from playing through injuries and bring down the team for fear of losing their position.
Ok, so Hu is the SS of the future but can’t handle the position for the next 8 or 9 days because he doesn’t hit enough? What in the world are the Dodgers thinking? And to get a better hitter in that spot for the short-term, maybe they can acquire Andy Cannizaro? A career .275/.346/.354 hitter in the minors? Come on…
NOTE TO DODGERS ~ PLAY THE KIDS!!! No more crappy ageing high-priced vets or AAAA fillers, play the prospects which we are told will carry the team for the next 5+ years! You have one of the best farm systems in baseball, USE IT!!!
Here, I’ll help get you started ~ if you are worried about Hu’s bat hurting the team, then just release Jones and have the three better OFers in the lineup daily ~ Hu’s bat in the lineup is then no different than what you are tossing out there now… Want more help? Release Kent, play DeWitt/Young at 2B and bring up LaRoche for 3rd ~ that’s even more production added to the lineup. Oh, and release Nomar because he never had any business being on the club to begin with…Jones, Nomar and Kent all have OPS under 700 and they are worried about Hu in there for less than 2 weeks? Really? ***sigh***
"Andy Cannizaro, SS, Tampa Bay Rays Tuesday 5/13, 11:04 AM CT
Andy Cannizaro has been designated for assignment, according to the St. Petersburg Times. He has been battling illness, and the team needed to free up a roster spot for Ben Zobrist, who has been activated from the DL."
Hey Darkstar, you apparently missed 2006, where Nomar practically carried the Dodgers to a playoff spot they had no business getting. He earned his current contract, and injuries just have seemed to find him again. As for releasing Kent, that is a huge chunk to swallow for a guy who can still hit (though he has been in a slump) and will not happen, especially considering that he is retiring at the end of the season anyway. I do think that playing Young at second on Kent's off days is a good idea, given how well he can hit, and we all know Hu can field SS as well as anyone. That leaves third, and I think DeWitt's play has earned him that job outright at this point. Further, they still can play Martin at third to keep him from being out of the lineup altogether on his days off from catching.
Hu is going to be fine offensively. He has hit for very respectable power (16 HR and 40 2B last year between AA, AAA and MLB) and had a BA of over .300 and an OBP of .340 or over every year but one. He looks a lot like another Orlando Cabrera when you think about it.
That said, I think the Dodgers have shifted their thinking and plan to resign Furcal and move Hu to second, and that is a great move.
Trade high on LaRoche, play Nomar as a utility guy until he retires and keep both Ethier and Kemp in the lineup together most of the time.
“Hey Darkstar, you apparently missed 2006, where Nomar practically carried the Dodgers to a playoff spot they had no business getting”
…As did Olmeda Sanez and Aaron Sele ~ doesn’t mean they should be around 2 years later posting pitiful numbers. Nomar batted .283/.328/.371 last year and is currently sporting a .226/.314/.323 line ~ for a team worried about their offense…
Anyway I agree DeWitt has earned the right to start ~ so let him start at 2B. That was his position up till last year, and Kent isnt doing anything while retiring at the end of the year anyway. If the team wants offense, then call up LaRoche and play the two better players with longer than a 4month future in the game… It makes more sense than trading for a scrub like Cannizaro just so they can try to pass off a lineup with Kent/Jones/Nomar as special…
And I know they cant realistically release Kent, Jones and Nomar because of the extreme amount of cash it means they eat; but it’s the best way to improve the offense at this point and means they wouldn’t need to give a 40-man spot and possibly someone up in trade to bring in a guy for like 10 games or fewer…
Nomar's numbers last year weren't great in the first half, but his second half numbers were .304/.351/.463, plus he hit .373 with RISP. This year's line is not a good measure, given that he has only played in 9 games. Hell, he was raking in the Spring.
As for DeWitt playing second, he isn't more than an emergency player there. He came into the organization as a 3B and only played 1 season (2006) with 2B as his primary position, and he committed 20 errors there. Plus, he has a strong arm, which would be wasted at second.
As for Kent, again, what has he done to show that he can't be productive anymore? Yes, he is mired in a slump, but what baseball player doesn't hit the skids once in a while. Hell, should they have DFA'ed Russell Martin during his slow start? Kent is an old, slow a-hole but he still has the bat speed of a 25 year old and can still turn a decent DP.
“Hell, should they have DFA'ed Russell Martin during his slow start?”
…Huh? Martin has a future with the club, I’m talking about a guy months away from leaving. And kids need to play to be productive, continually burring them on the bench or in the minors because 40-something guys making multiple millions are going through their miserable slumps, aches & pains, and in the case of Kent bitching and whining that the kids are getting playing time which resulted in better production; well… Its been years of waiting to see results from the youngsters the club has compiled ~ so far we have seen Loney and everyone else fighting like crazy for even a small amount of playing time. The longer it continues, the more it hurts the club both short and longterm.
Loney fights for nothing at this point. The only ones who have really had to fight are Ethier (unjustified) and DeWitt (of course, he never played higher than Double A). Further, Kent was still very productive last year, leading the team in HR and he even had the highest average of anyone who spent the whole year with the club (Kemp and Loney each played less than 100 games). He also was, along with Loney, the teams best hitter late in the season. I have never been a fan of his, but there is no question that Kent is productive and provides a benefit to this team.
Now, I do think the Dodgers should look long and hard at Delwyn Young and look to turn him into an average to above-average 2B, because his ability to hit is astounding. At that point, they could trade high on Hu or let him be a utility player, which truly seems to be his calling. That said, Kent is still a MLB caliber player and there is no need to eat a $9 million contract when he can still hit.
“Loney fights for nothing at this point. The only ones who have really had to fight are Ethier (unjustified) and DeWitt (of course, he never played higher than Double A).”
…Nah, said Loney didn’t have to anymore. Ethier does though. As does Kemp. As does Hu. As does Abreu. As does LaRoche. As does Young. As does DeWitt… And its nothing new in LA, its been going on for quite some time like this…
Kemp doesn't really have to fight anymore. The was pretty much locked into starting most of the time before the season even started. Young would be fighting even if Jones wasn't signed, because he isn't much of a defensive outfielder and because Pierre isn't as bad as the stat heads make him out to be, because he effects games with his speed and contact. Abreu looks like he can't play in pain and LaRoche hasn't proven himself at the major league level and has been injured multiple times. If DeWitt is still hitting this way in a month, I think it is time to trade LaRoche, because DeWitt may well turn out to be the better player anyway.
By and large, the Dodgers have gone with the youth, with Ethier being the real exception. What they need to do now is start locking players like Martin and Loney down, especially seeing that Russell may well be a Super 2 this year.
“Kemp doesn't really have to fight anymore. The was pretty much locked into starting most of the time before the season even started.”
…He started 5 of the first 12 games…
“Young would be fighting even if Jones wasn't signed, because he isn't much of a defensive outfielder”
…Agree, kinda. If Jones wasn’t around he would be the 4th OFer so he wouldn’t be fighting too much but he wouldn’t be a fulltimer.
“and because Pierre isn't as bad as the stat heads make him out to be,”
…Boy do I agree with that. I mean he isnt that great, but he isnt as bad as so many claim. I do feel he actually fits this team better than probably any other out there though, so that influences that statement.
“Abreu looks like he can't play in pain”
…Yeah, but will he play when not in pain?
“and LaRoche hasn't proven himself at the major league level and has been injured multiple times”
…Yeah, he’s had bad luck with the injuries but I would say 41 times on base in the 35 games hes managed to sneak into says he has done ok to start his career. He sure isnt going to lean anything more destroying AAA pitching yet again…
“If DeWitt is still hitting this way in a month, I think it is time to trade LaRoche, because DeWitt may well turn out to be the better player anyway.”
…I don’t know, LaRoche could be one of the best players in the game once he gets a shot. I mean, how many 24YOs sport a career 218 BB to 282 K ratio when their careers started at 19. The guy just owns pitching, its like a baby-Bonds thing going on where his patience and eye has him sit on the pitchers until he sees the one he takes over the wall or atleast bounces it off of.
“By and large, the Dodgers have gone with the youth, with Ethier being the real exception.”
See, I see/have-seen so many kids that looked to have such promising careers that were never really given a true shot at the majors, a trend that’s ongoing. Shoot, even Loney had to split his time last year, and they nearly signed Tony Clark to a 2 year deal which would have cut into his time yet again. I think they didn’t do so only because of roster restraints and Clarks being limited to first. But whatever, no biggie…
He was slumping and Torre was still getting a feel for the team.
"…Agree, kinda. If Jones wasn’t around he would be the 4th OFer so he wouldn’t be fighting too much but he wouldn’t be a fulltimer."
Young has pretty much usurped Sweeney as the first choice pinch hitter now, which is about as solid a role as he can get on this team right now. I still think he has promise at second.
"…Boy do I agree with that. I mean he isnt that great, but he isnt as bad as so many claim. I do feel he actually fits this team better than probably any other out there though, so that influences that statement."
I think the biggest thing was the move to left. While he has great range and doesn't make errors, his arm is just sad. Otherwise, he justifies about 70-75% of his contract with the tools he does bring, and he has been more patient this year.
"…Yeah, but will he play when not in pain?"
That is a bit of a "who cares" at this point. Hu is better defensively and looks better offensively as well. Abreu needs to be moved.
"…Yeah, he’s had bad luck with the injuries but I would say 41 times on base in the 35 games hes managed to sneak into says he has done ok to start his career. He sure isnt going to lean anything more destroying AAA pitching yet again…"
Taking a walk is something lots of guys can do, including DeWitt who has put up better numbers in every single category in just about the same number of at bats.
"…I don’t know, LaRoche could be one of the best players in the game once he gets a shot. I mean, how many 24YOs sport a career 218 BB to 282 K ratio when their careers started at 19. The guy just owns pitching, its like a baby-Bonds thing going on where his patience and eye has him sit on the pitchers until he sees the one he takes over the wall or atleast bounces it off of."
They also thought Billy Beane was going to be the next Mantle. Like I said, DeWitt has outperformed him in every possible way at the major league level, bats left handed, and has a better looking swing. LaRoche's main asset at this point is that he outweighs DeWitt by 25-30 pounds. Hell, he is even 2 years younger and hasn't gotten hurt. Time to trade high.
"See, I see/have-seen so many kids that looked to have such promising careers that were never really given a true shot at the majors, a trend that’s ongoing. Shoot, even Loney had to split his time last year, and they nearly signed Tony Clark to a 2 year deal which would have cut into his time yet again. I think they didn’t do so only because of roster restraints and Clarks being limited to first. But whatever, no biggie…"
There are also a ton on minor league mashers who have never lit up the majors. Remember Todd Greene? Meanwhile, the Dodgers have a guy who hitting .320/.393/.470, .360/.467/.560 with RISP and .571/.600/.857 with RISP and 2 out. He keeps that up and he is Rookie of the Year. You don't sit that guy for an oft injured minor masher who has hit .226 in the big show.
“He was slumping and Torre was still getting a feel for the team.”
…He didn’t even start the second game! He was hardly the starter to start the year, you cant be slumping after going 1-4 with a run in the only possible game you can play; and you how can you really call yourself the starter if you are pulled from that spot in the first week for guys who were doing even less? After 5 games Pierre was hitting .143/.143/.143 while Jones was at .167/.250/.222 ~ yet these two were keeping the starter out of the lineup? 5 starts in 14 games in place of a pair who goes a combined 14/82 with 8 walks and 4 XBH ~ nah, not buying it…
“Taking a walk is something lots of guys can do, including DeWitt who has put up better numbers in every single category in just about the same number of at bats.”
…Yet DeWitt only took 146 BB in 2024 MiL ABs. You have a surprise coming if you anticipate him keeping up his current pace ~ the 3 walks in his last 14 games (48 PA) shows he has already seen that abnormality come to an end…
“They also thought Billy Beane was going to be the next Mantle. Like I said, DeWitt has outperformed him in every possible way at the major league level, bats left handed, and has a better looking swing. LaRoche's main asset at this point is that he outweighs DeWitt by 25-30 pounds. Hell, he is even 2 years younger and hasn't gotten hurt. Time to trade high.”
Wow, I don’t quite now how to take a person being so rah-rah over a career .279/.333/.444 hitter while dismissing the .295/.377/.525 guy because of a difference total of 9 hits, 2 triples, 1 HR and 8 RBI in their rather microscopic amount of ML play. Hong-Chih Kuo is hitting .333/.333/.500 ~ should they think about replacing DeWitt with him?
“There are also a ton on minor league mashers who have never lit up the majors. Remember Todd Greene?”
So because Todd Greene didn’t do good you shouldn’t give absolutely amazing minor league hitters a shot? Or I guess you said he should be traded, probably bringing someone else who may or may-not ever help while putting your faith instead on the guy who is blatantly outperforming himself in his so-far limited playing time… Let us not forget that before DeWitt went on this two week hot streak, he was hitting .255/.359/.327 with an inflated walk rate ~ meaning your decision would really be based off a 2 week hot-streak…
BTW, Todd Greene was a horrible example. Greene was a guy with a ton of power but absolutely no plate patience at a position where offense is generally not expected. Most realistic people didn’t expect him to have a 300 BA in the majors, meaning he was going to have an OBP which would be floating around 315 or lower.
"…He didn’t even start the second game! He was hardly the starter to start the year, you cant be slumping after going 1-4 with a run in the only possible game you can play; and you how can you really call yourself the starter if you are pulled from that spot in the first week for guys who were doing even less? After 5 games Pierre was hitting .143/.143/.143 while Jones was at .167/.250/.222 ~ yet these two were keeping the starter out of the lineup? 5 starts in 14 games in place of a pair who goes a combined 14/82 with 8 walks and 4 XBH ~ nah, not buying it…"
In the second game, the Dodgers were facing Matt Cain, a tough righty who strikes people out. Torre went with the lefty, and still brought Kemp in later in the game. Again, it was early.
"…Yet DeWitt only took 146 BB in 2024 MiL ABs. You have a surprise coming if you anticipate him keeping up his current pace ~ the 3 walks in his last 14 games (48 PA) shows he has already seen that abnormality come to an end…"
Um, he only has 3 walks because he has been making serious contact. You left out that he has only struck out 3 times in that same span. Further, his minor league numbers look to be the product of a lot of hacking, which he hasn't done this year, given his very low K rate. He is a 175 pound guy who was hitting for rather respectable power, which suggests he had different priorities at the time.
"Wow, I don’t quite now how to take a person being so rah-rah over a career .279/.333/.444 hitter while dismissing the .295/.377/.525 guy because of a difference total of 9 hits, 2 triples, 1 HR and 8 RBI in their rather microscopic amount of ML play. Hong-Chih Kuo is hitting .333/.333/.500 ~ should they think about replacing DeWitt with him?"
You completely ignore that LaRoche has had injury problems, has been less productive than pre-return DeWitt in the bigs, and that DeWitt had an off year in 2006, which reduced his average.
The point is, DeWitt has shown he can produce at the major league level, especially when it counts. He has earned the job at this point.
"So because Todd Greene didn’t do good you shouldn’t give absolutely amazing minor league hitters a shot? Or I guess you said he should be traded, probably bringing someone else who may or may-not ever help while putting your faith instead on the guy who is blatantly outperforming himself in his so-far limited playing time… Let us not forget that before DeWitt went on this two week hot streak, he was hitting .255/.359/.327 with an inflated walk rate ~ meaning your decision would really be based off a 2 week hot-streak…"
What made his walk rate inflated? He was being patient. They pulled him from AA to the majors, you can expect him to look at a few pitches. The point is, DeWitt has shown that he can hit major league pitching, and that should be obvious if you look at his swing. He has also proven healthy.
"BTW, Todd Greene was a horrible example. Greene was a guy with a ton of power but absolutely no plate patience at a position where offense is generally not expected. Most realistic people didn’t expect him to have a 300 BA in the majors, meaning he was going to have an OBP which would be floating around 315 or lower."
The Angels sure as hell expected him to crush the ball. Further, he kept on crushing pitching in the minors even when teams brought him on as a reclamation project, only to hit terribly at the major league level.
As for not expecting offense at catcher, that is incredibly naive thinking. Offense is expected at every position. Anyway, Greene was actually a pretty good defensive catcher, but didn't stick around because he couldn't hit major league pitching, not because he couldn't handle pitchers.
hey darkstar.. still think penny is an ace? as for short, hu dosent seem too bad defensively, but with the starting piching being as terrible as it is, they need bats to make up for it. this seems a little far fetched, and isnt going to happen, but just for fun.. move dewitt to short and call up tiffee.
“Um, he only has 3 walks because he has been making serious contact. You left out that he has only struck out 3 times in that same span.”
…Although its not a huge deal, he has 6 K’s over his last 14 games…
“Further, his minor league numbers look to be the product of a lot of hacking, which he hasn't done this year, given his very low K rate. He is a 175 pound guy who was hitting for rather respectable power, which suggests he had different priorities at the time. “
…He’s hitting .400/.438/.644 with a .432 BAbip over the last 14 days. He was never a huge K guy in the minors outside of 2006, and of course his BB rate has always been low ~ meaning he’s always been a high contact guy with semi-plus slugging. What you just stated really applies to his current hot streak as much as it does to the rest of his career…
“You completely ignore that LaRoche has had injury problems, has been less productive than pre-return DeWitt in the bigs, and that DeWitt had an off year in 2006, which reduced his average.”
…No I didn’t, but untimely fluke injuries do not mean you trade a stud just because someone else is playing above his potential at the moment. We already went over the “productive in the bigs” difference ~ it 9 hits, and really only 2 more times on base… Then, his lines in the minors the last couple years roughly translate like this:
05 SA ~ .283/.333/.428 = .225/.264/.335
06 HA ~ .268/.339/.442 = .233/.296/.388
06 AA ~ .183/.241/.221 = .190/.241/.229
07 HA ~ .298/.338/.466 = .247/.282/.375
07 AA ~ .281/.306/.466 = .256/.278/.450
…You’ll notice that 06 in High-A wasn’t as out of line as you might think ~ and his 100-ish AB in AA that year wont effect his career line much when it covers 1850+ ABs... Also, I don’t see anything screaming ‘amazing prospect’ with those translations, and when you again look at his first 19 games in the majors this year (.255/.359/.327) you realize something closer to that with more of his current BB rate is what you should probably expect going forward ~ not the current hot streak which doesn’t match anything he has ever been able to do…
“The point is, DeWitt has shown he can produce at the major league level, especially when it counts. He has earned the job at this point.”
…if he hits .250/.300/.350 next month, will you continue to say that? 2 weeks doesn’t earn anyone any job, and he is still little more than a currently hot placeholder. Now, I’m not opposed to using the hot hand for the moment, but its extremely unlikely he will still be around come July…
“As for not expecting offense at catcher, that is incredibly naive thinking. Offense is expected at every position.”
…I meant he was expected to be amazing for the position, not amazing as a whole. His plate discipline was horrible, and scouts knew his BA/OBP wasn’t going to translate that great ~ but the sheer power he was supposed to bring coupled with the Defense made him an extreme prospect for a position which generally doesn’t produce much at the plate to begin with.
Anyway, I don’t want to debate Greene with you though ~ I said it was a horrible example because he was nothing really like LaRoche and that’s the point. LaRoche posts Pujols like numbers, constantly, almost like clockwork. He’s a really special talent, and when the Dodgers call him up, you will probably see that…
"LaRoche posts Pujols like numbers, constantly, almost like clockwork. He’s a really special talent, and when the Dodgers call him up, you will probably see that…"
Pujols hit major league pitching from his first day, LaRoche didn't.
"…I meant he was expected to be amazing for the position, not amazing as a whole. His plate discipline was horrible, and scouts knew his BA/OBP wasn’t going to translate that great ~ but the sheer power he was supposed to bring coupled with the Defense made him an extreme prospect for a position which generally doesn’t produce much at the plate to begin with."
Lets look at some catchers and see how much is produced there.
Russell Martin: MVP candidate last year
Pudge: Former MVP, still productive
McCann: .309/.379/.574
Navarro: .387/.425
Napoli: .570 SLG
Ianetta: .306/.371/.581
Soto: .321/.423/.595
Not expected to hit, huh?
Face it, Greene was a guy who could rake AA and AAA pitching but couldn't hack it at the major league level. LaRoche is very talented, and he may well be a stud someday, but he has been completely out performed at the big league level by DeWitt, who is younger and less injury prone.
Looks like Luis Maza is the solution. The guy was absolutely raking in AAA and can play the entire infield. When you look at his minor league numbers, it is shocking this guy never got a shot, because he only really ever had 1 bad year.
Trade Theriot while his stock is WAY higher than it ever should be to the Dodgers for a piece of whatever the Padres want for Khalil Greene, including Pie. While I would regret giving up Pie, Greene would absolutely rake in Wrigley.
Posted by: Goat | May 13, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Yeah, improbable and very well stupid. I know.
Posted by: Goat | May 13, 2008 at 12:23 AM
ill give you julio lugo for a really really good roast beef sandwich with mustard mayo and tomatos, some french fries a pickle and some lays potato chips, but even then i still think youd be getting the short end of the stick...
Posted by: 04Forever | May 13, 2008 at 12:35 AM
I think one Julio Lugo era in LA is already one too many
Posted by: J.L. | May 13, 2008 at 12:52 AM
Sure, Hu hasn't had success in the majors with the stick, but to expect a "lack of offense" is a little harsh. The guy posted .800+ OPS in AA and AAA, and had OPS of mid-.700s at the lower levels. He looks to project adaquate with the stick at the SS position, if not better.
Posted by: dorfmac | May 13, 2008 at 01:24 AM
Yeah Hu does project to be decent, but right now he's pretty underwhelming.
I say the Dodgers should get a little creative and bring LaRoche back up. I know he doesn't have the range for SS, but he has a strong bat and would only be a temporary fix, with Hu as the late inning defensive switch.
Posted by: Chillin | May 13, 2008 at 04:40 AM
A-Gon is due off the DL Soon....any chance the reds trade him to LA? They have a bit of a logjam on the right side with Kepp and EE playing well.
Posted by: cincy_11 | May 13, 2008 at 07:19 AM
You mean the left side right?
I doubt the Dodgers are in the market for someone like Gonzalez, mainly because he'd cost too much in a trade.
Seems to me they are just looking for someone to play adequately while Furcal heals.
Posted by: Chillin | May 13, 2008 at 08:10 AM
I'm with you on this cincy, they don't need Alex Gonzalez on the Reds. He's an extra piece with no value to them currently... As it is, they have Freel, Hairston, and Hopper begging for playing time, it removes the issue of "a player can't be replaced by someone because of injury." Sure they can, I know, but it's considered an unwritten rule or some other form of diplomacy between a manager and his players, mostly done to keep guys from playing through injuries and bring down the team for fear of losing their position.
Posted by: BaseballGuru | May 13, 2008 at 08:10 AM
I meant Hu's lack of offense so far in the limited sample. I like Hu.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | May 13, 2008 at 08:15 AM
Ok, so Hu is the SS of the future but can’t handle the position for the next 8 or 9 days because he doesn’t hit enough? What in the world are the Dodgers thinking? And to get a better hitter in that spot for the short-term, maybe they can acquire Andy Cannizaro? A career .275/.346/.354 hitter in the minors? Come on…
NOTE TO DODGERS ~ PLAY THE KIDS!!! No more crappy ageing high-priced vets or AAAA fillers, play the prospects which we are told will carry the team for the next 5+ years! You have one of the best farm systems in baseball, USE IT!!!
Here, I’ll help get you started ~ if you are worried about Hu’s bat hurting the team, then just release Jones and have the three better OFers in the lineup daily ~ Hu’s bat in the lineup is then no different than what you are tossing out there now… Want more help? Release Kent, play DeWitt/Young at 2B and bring up LaRoche for 3rd ~ that’s even more production added to the lineup. Oh, and release Nomar because he never had any business being on the club to begin with…Jones, Nomar and Kent all have OPS under 700 and they are worried about Hu in there for less than 2 weeks? Really? ***sigh***
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 12:45 PM
BTW ~ you may or may not have known this:
"Andy Cannizaro, SS, Tampa Bay Rays Tuesday 5/13, 11:04 AM CT
Andy Cannizaro has been designated for assignment, according to the St. Petersburg Times. He has been battling illness, and the team needed to free up a roster spot for Ben Zobrist, who has been activated from the DL."
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 01:09 PM
Hey Darkstar, you apparently missed 2006, where Nomar practically carried the Dodgers to a playoff spot they had no business getting. He earned his current contract, and injuries just have seemed to find him again. As for releasing Kent, that is a huge chunk to swallow for a guy who can still hit (though he has been in a slump) and will not happen, especially considering that he is retiring at the end of the season anyway. I do think that playing Young at second on Kent's off days is a good idea, given how well he can hit, and we all know Hu can field SS as well as anyone. That leaves third, and I think DeWitt's play has earned him that job outright at this point. Further, they still can play Martin at third to keep him from being out of the lineup altogether on his days off from catching.
Hu is going to be fine offensively. He has hit for very respectable power (16 HR and 40 2B last year between AA, AAA and MLB) and had a BA of over .300 and an OBP of .340 or over every year but one. He looks a lot like another Orlando Cabrera when you think about it.
That said, I think the Dodgers have shifted their thinking and plan to resign Furcal and move Hu to second, and that is a great move.
Trade high on LaRoche, play Nomar as a utility guy until he retires and keep both Ethier and Kemp in the lineup together most of the time.
Posted by: AA | May 13, 2008 at 02:43 PM
“Hey Darkstar, you apparently missed 2006, where Nomar practically carried the Dodgers to a playoff spot they had no business getting”
…As did Olmeda Sanez and Aaron Sele ~ doesn’t mean they should be around 2 years later posting pitiful numbers. Nomar batted .283/.328/.371 last year and is currently sporting a .226/.314/.323 line ~ for a team worried about their offense…
Anyway I agree DeWitt has earned the right to start ~ so let him start at 2B. That was his position up till last year, and Kent isnt doing anything while retiring at the end of the year anyway. If the team wants offense, then call up LaRoche and play the two better players with longer than a 4month future in the game… It makes more sense than trading for a scrub like Cannizaro just so they can try to pass off a lineup with Kent/Jones/Nomar as special…
And I know they cant realistically release Kent, Jones and Nomar because of the extreme amount of cash it means they eat; but it’s the best way to improve the offense at this point and means they wouldn’t need to give a 40-man spot and possibly someone up in trade to bring in a guy for like 10 games or fewer…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 03:35 PM
Nomar's numbers last year weren't great in the first half, but his second half numbers were .304/.351/.463, plus he hit .373 with RISP. This year's line is not a good measure, given that he has only played in 9 games. Hell, he was raking in the Spring.
As for DeWitt playing second, he isn't more than an emergency player there. He came into the organization as a 3B and only played 1 season (2006) with 2B as his primary position, and he committed 20 errors there. Plus, he has a strong arm, which would be wasted at second.
As for Kent, again, what has he done to show that he can't be productive anymore? Yes, he is mired in a slump, but what baseball player doesn't hit the skids once in a while. Hell, should they have DFA'ed Russell Martin during his slow start? Kent is an old, slow a-hole but he still has the bat speed of a 25 year old and can still turn a decent DP.
Posted by: AA | May 13, 2008 at 06:06 PM
Mark Loretta is always available.
Posted by: Mike Simms | May 13, 2008 at 06:54 PM
“Hell, should they have DFA'ed Russell Martin during his slow start?”
…Huh? Martin has a future with the club, I’m talking about a guy months away from leaving. And kids need to play to be productive, continually burring them on the bench or in the minors because 40-something guys making multiple millions are going through their miserable slumps, aches & pains, and in the case of Kent bitching and whining that the kids are getting playing time which resulted in better production; well… Its been years of waiting to see results from the youngsters the club has compiled ~ so far we have seen Loney and everyone else fighting like crazy for even a small amount of playing time. The longer it continues, the more it hurts the club both short and longterm.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 08:43 PM
Loney fights for nothing at this point. The only ones who have really had to fight are Ethier (unjustified) and DeWitt (of course, he never played higher than Double A). Further, Kent was still very productive last year, leading the team in HR and he even had the highest average of anyone who spent the whole year with the club (Kemp and Loney each played less than 100 games). He also was, along with Loney, the teams best hitter late in the season. I have never been a fan of his, but there is no question that Kent is productive and provides a benefit to this team.
Now, I do think the Dodgers should look long and hard at Delwyn Young and look to turn him into an average to above-average 2B, because his ability to hit is astounding. At that point, they could trade high on Hu or let him be a utility player, which truly seems to be his calling. That said, Kent is still a MLB caliber player and there is no need to eat a $9 million contract when he can still hit.
Posted by: AA | May 13, 2008 at 09:01 PM
“Loney fights for nothing at this point. The only ones who have really had to fight are Ethier (unjustified) and DeWitt (of course, he never played higher than Double A).”
…Nah, said Loney didn’t have to anymore. Ethier does though. As does Kemp. As does Hu. As does Abreu. As does LaRoche. As does Young. As does DeWitt… And its nothing new in LA, its been going on for quite some time like this…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 09:34 PM
Kemp doesn't really have to fight anymore. The was pretty much locked into starting most of the time before the season even started. Young would be fighting even if Jones wasn't signed, because he isn't much of a defensive outfielder and because Pierre isn't as bad as the stat heads make him out to be, because he effects games with his speed and contact. Abreu looks like he can't play in pain and LaRoche hasn't proven himself at the major league level and has been injured multiple times. If DeWitt is still hitting this way in a month, I think it is time to trade LaRoche, because DeWitt may well turn out to be the better player anyway.
By and large, the Dodgers have gone with the youth, with Ethier being the real exception. What they need to do now is start locking players like Martin and Loney down, especially seeing that Russell may well be a Super 2 this year.
Posted by: AA | May 13, 2008 at 09:56 PM
“Kemp doesn't really have to fight anymore. The was pretty much locked into starting most of the time before the season even started.”
…He started 5 of the first 12 games…
“Young would be fighting even if Jones wasn't signed, because he isn't much of a defensive outfielder”
…Agree, kinda. If Jones wasn’t around he would be the 4th OFer so he wouldn’t be fighting too much but he wouldn’t be a fulltimer.
“and because Pierre isn't as bad as the stat heads make him out to be,”
…Boy do I agree with that. I mean he isnt that great, but he isnt as bad as so many claim. I do feel he actually fits this team better than probably any other out there though, so that influences that statement.
“Abreu looks like he can't play in pain”
…Yeah, but will he play when not in pain?
“and LaRoche hasn't proven himself at the major league level and has been injured multiple times”
…Yeah, he’s had bad luck with the injuries but I would say 41 times on base in the 35 games hes managed to sneak into says he has done ok to start his career. He sure isnt going to lean anything more destroying AAA pitching yet again…
“If DeWitt is still hitting this way in a month, I think it is time to trade LaRoche, because DeWitt may well turn out to be the better player anyway.”
…I don’t know, LaRoche could be one of the best players in the game once he gets a shot. I mean, how many 24YOs sport a career 218 BB to 282 K ratio when their careers started at 19. The guy just owns pitching, its like a baby-Bonds thing going on where his patience and eye has him sit on the pitchers until he sees the one he takes over the wall or atleast bounces it off of.
“By and large, the Dodgers have gone with the youth, with Ethier being the real exception.”
See, I see/have-seen so many kids that looked to have such promising careers that were never really given a true shot at the majors, a trend that’s ongoing. Shoot, even Loney had to split his time last year, and they nearly signed Tony Clark to a 2 year deal which would have cut into his time yet again. I think they didn’t do so only because of roster restraints and Clarks being limited to first. But whatever, no biggie…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM
"…He started 5 of the first 12 games…"
He was slumping and Torre was still getting a feel for the team.
"…Agree, kinda. If Jones wasn’t around he would be the 4th OFer so he wouldn’t be fighting too much but he wouldn’t be a fulltimer."
Young has pretty much usurped Sweeney as the first choice pinch hitter now, which is about as solid a role as he can get on this team right now. I still think he has promise at second.
"…Boy do I agree with that. I mean he isnt that great, but he isnt as bad as so many claim. I do feel he actually fits this team better than probably any other out there though, so that influences that statement."
I think the biggest thing was the move to left. While he has great range and doesn't make errors, his arm is just sad. Otherwise, he justifies about 70-75% of his contract with the tools he does bring, and he has been more patient this year.
"…Yeah, but will he play when not in pain?"
That is a bit of a "who cares" at this point. Hu is better defensively and looks better offensively as well. Abreu needs to be moved.
"…Yeah, he’s had bad luck with the injuries but I would say 41 times on base in the 35 games hes managed to sneak into says he has done ok to start his career. He sure isnt going to lean anything more destroying AAA pitching yet again…"
Taking a walk is something lots of guys can do, including DeWitt who has put up better numbers in every single category in just about the same number of at bats.
"…I don’t know, LaRoche could be one of the best players in the game once he gets a shot. I mean, how many 24YOs sport a career 218 BB to 282 K ratio when their careers started at 19. The guy just owns pitching, its like a baby-Bonds thing going on where his patience and eye has him sit on the pitchers until he sees the one he takes over the wall or atleast bounces it off of."
They also thought Billy Beane was going to be the next Mantle. Like I said, DeWitt has outperformed him in every possible way at the major league level, bats left handed, and has a better looking swing. LaRoche's main asset at this point is that he outweighs DeWitt by 25-30 pounds. Hell, he is even 2 years younger and hasn't gotten hurt. Time to trade high.
"See, I see/have-seen so many kids that looked to have such promising careers that were never really given a true shot at the majors, a trend that’s ongoing. Shoot, even Loney had to split his time last year, and they nearly signed Tony Clark to a 2 year deal which would have cut into his time yet again. I think they didn’t do so only because of roster restraints and Clarks being limited to first. But whatever, no biggie…"
There are also a ton on minor league mashers who have never lit up the majors. Remember Todd Greene? Meanwhile, the Dodgers have a guy who hitting .320/.393/.470, .360/.467/.560 with RISP and .571/.600/.857 with RISP and 2 out. He keeps that up and he is Rookie of the Year. You don't sit that guy for an oft injured minor masher who has hit .226 in the big show.
Posted by: AA | May 14, 2008 at 01:19 PM
“He was slumping and Torre was still getting a feel for the team.”
…He didn’t even start the second game! He was hardly the starter to start the year, you cant be slumping after going 1-4 with a run in the only possible game you can play; and you how can you really call yourself the starter if you are pulled from that spot in the first week for guys who were doing even less? After 5 games Pierre was hitting .143/.143/.143 while Jones was at .167/.250/.222 ~ yet these two were keeping the starter out of the lineup? 5 starts in 14 games in place of a pair who goes a combined 14/82 with 8 walks and 4 XBH ~ nah, not buying it…
“Taking a walk is something lots of guys can do, including DeWitt who has put up better numbers in every single category in just about the same number of at bats.”
…Yet DeWitt only took 146 BB in 2024 MiL ABs. You have a surprise coming if you anticipate him keeping up his current pace ~ the 3 walks in his last 14 games (48 PA) shows he has already seen that abnormality come to an end…
“They also thought Billy Beane was going to be the next Mantle. Like I said, DeWitt has outperformed him in every possible way at the major league level, bats left handed, and has a better looking swing. LaRoche's main asset at this point is that he outweighs DeWitt by 25-30 pounds. Hell, he is even 2 years younger and hasn't gotten hurt. Time to trade high.”
Wow, I don’t quite now how to take a person being so rah-rah over a career .279/.333/.444 hitter while dismissing the .295/.377/.525 guy because of a difference total of 9 hits, 2 triples, 1 HR and 8 RBI in their rather microscopic amount of ML play. Hong-Chih Kuo is hitting .333/.333/.500 ~ should they think about replacing DeWitt with him?
“There are also a ton on minor league mashers who have never lit up the majors. Remember Todd Greene?”
So because Todd Greene didn’t do good you shouldn’t give absolutely amazing minor league hitters a shot? Or I guess you said he should be traded, probably bringing someone else who may or may-not ever help while putting your faith instead on the guy who is blatantly outperforming himself in his so-far limited playing time… Let us not forget that before DeWitt went on this two week hot streak, he was hitting .255/.359/.327 with an inflated walk rate ~ meaning your decision would really be based off a 2 week hot-streak…
BTW, Todd Greene was a horrible example. Greene was a guy with a ton of power but absolutely no plate patience at a position where offense is generally not expected. Most realistic people didn’t expect him to have a 300 BA in the majors, meaning he was going to have an OBP which would be floating around 315 or lower.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 14, 2008 at 02:23 PM
"…He didn’t even start the second game! He was hardly the starter to start the year, you cant be slumping after going 1-4 with a run in the only possible game you can play; and you how can you really call yourself the starter if you are pulled from that spot in the first week for guys who were doing even less? After 5 games Pierre was hitting .143/.143/.143 while Jones was at .167/.250/.222 ~ yet these two were keeping the starter out of the lineup? 5 starts in 14 games in place of a pair who goes a combined 14/82 with 8 walks and 4 XBH ~ nah, not buying it…"
In the second game, the Dodgers were facing Matt Cain, a tough righty who strikes people out. Torre went with the lefty, and still brought Kemp in later in the game. Again, it was early.
"…Yet DeWitt only took 146 BB in 2024 MiL ABs. You have a surprise coming if you anticipate him keeping up his current pace ~ the 3 walks in his last 14 games (48 PA) shows he has already seen that abnormality come to an end…"
Um, he only has 3 walks because he has been making serious contact. You left out that he has only struck out 3 times in that same span. Further, his minor league numbers look to be the product of a lot of hacking, which he hasn't done this year, given his very low K rate. He is a 175 pound guy who was hitting for rather respectable power, which suggests he had different priorities at the time.
"Wow, I don’t quite now how to take a person being so rah-rah over a career .279/.333/.444 hitter while dismissing the .295/.377/.525 guy because of a difference total of 9 hits, 2 triples, 1 HR and 8 RBI in their rather microscopic amount of ML play. Hong-Chih Kuo is hitting .333/.333/.500 ~ should they think about replacing DeWitt with him?"
You completely ignore that LaRoche has had injury problems, has been less productive than pre-return DeWitt in the bigs, and that DeWitt had an off year in 2006, which reduced his average.
The point is, DeWitt has shown he can produce at the major league level, especially when it counts. He has earned the job at this point.
"So because Todd Greene didn’t do good you shouldn’t give absolutely amazing minor league hitters a shot? Or I guess you said he should be traded, probably bringing someone else who may or may-not ever help while putting your faith instead on the guy who is blatantly outperforming himself in his so-far limited playing time… Let us not forget that before DeWitt went on this two week hot streak, he was hitting .255/.359/.327 with an inflated walk rate ~ meaning your decision would really be based off a 2 week hot-streak…"
What made his walk rate inflated? He was being patient. They pulled him from AA to the majors, you can expect him to look at a few pitches. The point is, DeWitt has shown that he can hit major league pitching, and that should be obvious if you look at his swing. He has also proven healthy.
"BTW, Todd Greene was a horrible example. Greene was a guy with a ton of power but absolutely no plate patience at a position where offense is generally not expected. Most realistic people didn’t expect him to have a 300 BA in the majors, meaning he was going to have an OBP which would be floating around 315 or lower."
The Angels sure as hell expected him to crush the ball. Further, he kept on crushing pitching in the minors even when teams brought him on as a reclamation project, only to hit terribly at the major league level.
As for not expecting offense at catcher, that is incredibly naive thinking. Offense is expected at every position. Anyway, Greene was actually a pretty good defensive catcher, but didn't stick around because he couldn't hit major league pitching, not because he couldn't handle pitchers.
Posted by: AA | May 14, 2008 at 05:39 PM
hey darkstar.. still think penny is an ace? as for short, hu dosent seem too bad defensively, but with the starting piching being as terrible as it is, they need bats to make up for it. this seems a little far fetched, and isnt going to happen, but just for fun.. move dewitt to short and call up tiffee.
Posted by: derailone76 | May 14, 2008 at 06:55 PM
"hey darkstar.. still think penny is an ace?"
Penny is an ace. An ace who has had a couple rough ones. He may be tipping his pitches again. He will settle down.
"as for short, hu dosent seem too bad defensively, but with the starting piching being as terrible as it is, they need bats to make up for it."
They have the bats and even Hu has shown that he can hit.
"this seems a little far fetched, and isnt going to happen, but just for fun.. move dewitt to short and call up tiffee."
While we are talking about really crazy things, how about moving Martin to short and bringing up Lucas May from Jacksonville ;-)
Posted by: AA | May 14, 2008 at 07:03 PM
dosent seem too crazy to me.. no more crazy than jones being 1 for 1. maybe he will get his firs multi hit game today..
Posted by: derailone76 | May 14, 2008 at 07:10 PM
i take that back, he had a single and a double against pittsburgh
Posted by: derailone76 | May 14, 2008 at 07:14 PM
Stop the presses. Andruw has another multi-hit and DeWitt yanked another one out of the park. Too bad the Dodgers are currently losing.
Posted by: AA | May 14, 2008 at 08:53 PM
“Um, he only has 3 walks because he has been making serious contact. You left out that he has only struck out 3 times in that same span.”
…Although its not a huge deal, he has 6 K’s over his last 14 games…
“Further, his minor league numbers look to be the product of a lot of hacking, which he hasn't done this year, given his very low K rate. He is a 175 pound guy who was hitting for rather respectable power, which suggests he had different priorities at the time. “
…He’s hitting .400/.438/.644 with a .432 BAbip over the last 14 days. He was never a huge K guy in the minors outside of 2006, and of course his BB rate has always been low ~ meaning he’s always been a high contact guy with semi-plus slugging. What you just stated really applies to his current hot streak as much as it does to the rest of his career…
“You completely ignore that LaRoche has had injury problems, has been less productive than pre-return DeWitt in the bigs, and that DeWitt had an off year in 2006, which reduced his average.”
…No I didn’t, but untimely fluke injuries do not mean you trade a stud just because someone else is playing above his potential at the moment. We already went over the “productive in the bigs” difference ~ it 9 hits, and really only 2 more times on base… Then, his lines in the minors the last couple years roughly translate like this:
05 SA ~ .283/.333/.428 = .225/.264/.335
06 HA ~ .268/.339/.442 = .233/.296/.388
06 AA ~ .183/.241/.221 = .190/.241/.229
07 HA ~ .298/.338/.466 = .247/.282/.375
07 AA ~ .281/.306/.466 = .256/.278/.450
…You’ll notice that 06 in High-A wasn’t as out of line as you might think ~ and his 100-ish AB in AA that year wont effect his career line much when it covers 1850+ ABs... Also, I don’t see anything screaming ‘amazing prospect’ with those translations, and when you again look at his first 19 games in the majors this year (.255/.359/.327) you realize something closer to that with more of his current BB rate is what you should probably expect going forward ~ not the current hot streak which doesn’t match anything he has ever been able to do…
“The point is, DeWitt has shown he can produce at the major league level, especially when it counts. He has earned the job at this point.”
…if he hits .250/.300/.350 next month, will you continue to say that? 2 weeks doesn’t earn anyone any job, and he is still little more than a currently hot placeholder. Now, I’m not opposed to using the hot hand for the moment, but its extremely unlikely he will still be around come July…
“As for not expecting offense at catcher, that is incredibly naive thinking. Offense is expected at every position.”
…I meant he was expected to be amazing for the position, not amazing as a whole. His plate discipline was horrible, and scouts knew his BA/OBP wasn’t going to translate that great ~ but the sheer power he was supposed to bring coupled with the Defense made him an extreme prospect for a position which generally doesn’t produce much at the plate to begin with.
Anyway, I don’t want to debate Greene with you though ~ I said it was a horrible example because he was nothing really like LaRoche and that’s the point. LaRoche posts Pujols like numbers, constantly, almost like clockwork. He’s a really special talent, and when the Dodgers call him up, you will probably see that…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | May 14, 2008 at 10:10 PM
"LaRoche posts Pujols like numbers, constantly, almost like clockwork. He’s a really special talent, and when the Dodgers call him up, you will probably see that…"
Pujols hit major league pitching from his first day, LaRoche didn't.
"…I meant he was expected to be amazing for the position, not amazing as a whole. His plate discipline was horrible, and scouts knew his BA/OBP wasn’t going to translate that great ~ but the sheer power he was supposed to bring coupled with the Defense made him an extreme prospect for a position which generally doesn’t produce much at the plate to begin with."
Lets look at some catchers and see how much is produced there.
Russell Martin: MVP candidate last year
Pudge: Former MVP, still productive
McCann: .309/.379/.574
Navarro: .387/.425
Napoli: .570 SLG
Ianetta: .306/.371/.581
Soto: .321/.423/.595
Not expected to hit, huh?
Face it, Greene was a guy who could rake AA and AAA pitching but couldn't hack it at the major league level. LaRoche is very talented, and he may well be a stud someday, but he has been completely out performed at the big league level by DeWitt, who is younger and less injury prone.
Posted by: AA | May 15, 2008 at 06:02 PM
Looks like Luis Maza is the solution. The guy was absolutely raking in AAA and can play the entire infield. When you look at his minor league numbers, it is shocking this guy never got a shot, because he only really ever had 1 bad year.
Posted by: AA | May 19, 2008 at 01:52 AM