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Rosenthal's Latest: Hunter, Santana, Quentin

By Nat Boyle [May 25, 2008 at 9:36am CST]

It's Sunday again, so we've got some tidbits from Ken Rosenthal's Full Count video:

Torii Hunter was courted by the White Sox and Rangers before signing with the Angels this past offseason; however, according to Hunter, he had a meeting scheduled with the Dodgers to discuss taking the spot that Andruw Jones would come to occupy. The Angels signed him, preventing the meeting.
As we enter June, the sky is falling in Seattle...
Rosenthal doesn't think there's a lot of regret in the Yankee organization for not acquiring Johan Santana. One executive notes Santana's throwing with increased effort this season yet without increased results.
In this piece, Rosenthal commends the White Sox for their deal for Carlos Quentin. Writes Rosenthal, "'I give Kenny credit — he was on Quentin for a while,' Diamondbacks general manager Josh Byrnes said. 'He believed that the same Carlos Quentin would return now that his shoulder is fixed.'"

By Nat Boyle

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Comments

I love it. The Angels jump in and get the 5-tool outfielder, and Brooklyn gets stuck with an obese, surly washout in CF. Happy days are here again.

Posted by: revrobby | May 25, 2008 at 11:53 AM

I'm sick of all this Santana bashing going on. First off, there HAS to be regret the Yankees didn't get him. It took Kennedy 8 starts and a demotion to win a game. Still has that attractive 7.27 ERA and 0.92 K/BB. Hughes was horrific and got a rib strain from...coughing. The only one of that possible deal that is productive is Melky but he's nothing special. Santana is still learning the league's hitters and has been good, not great. He's always done better in the 2nd half of this year. When the Yankees are 10 out and Santana is dominating in the 2nd half, there will be a lot of regret.

Posted by: icedrake523 | May 25, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Right on.

Every spring the same crap is said of Santana; 'What's wrong with him', 'He must be losing it. too many IP', 'My worst 1st round draftpick ever'.

Well, guess what, for his career the guy has an ERA over 4.00 before June. After then, he's the best pitcher in baseball, easy.

That's what's wrong with him.

Posted by: Dirty Water | May 25, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Yeah, Johan hasn't been the dominant Johan we have come to know over the last 5 years or whatever, but he is still holding the fort for the Mets right now when everything else is going wrong. This is coming from a guy who didnt, and still doesn't approve of that trade, but there certainly has been a lot of unwarranted Santana bashing going on. Like Dirty and icedrake said, the guy is a notorious second half pitcher. Also, like I brought up in another post, Santana has really not used his slider much at all so far. I dont know if he is still not comfortable throwing it (I know it gave him blister problems last year), or whether he is just trying to learn the hitters and save the slider for later in the season, sort of like not using it during the first 3 innings and waiting for the second time around the order. Only he knows that, but interestingly his best game by far was a friday night game in Philly where he did use his slider a bit more, especially against Utley and Ryno.

Anyway, while some people may look at Santana and be worried that he doesnt have his best stuff, I look at him and see a guy that hasn't come close to the level history tells us he will reach before the end of the season, and this same guy has given his team a chance to win every single game he has pitched in all year so far.

@ Fla- 7 IP, 2 ER
@ Atl- 7 IP, 1 ER
vs Mil- 6.2 IP, 4 ER
@ Phi- 7 IP, 3 ER (two let in by a Heilman HR after Santana departed)
@ Nats - 7 IP, 2 ER
vs Pit- 5.2 IP, 2 ER
@ Zona- 6 IP, 1 ER
Cinci- 6 IP, 3 ER
@ NYY- 7.2 4 ER
@ Atl- 7 IP, 3 ER

Every one of those games was a winnable game. With the exception of Milwaukee and recently vs Atlanta, all the games where he gave up 3 or more runs were games where he was comfortably in the lead and just went after hitters and allowed some solo home runs. He still has very strong peripherals, which should only improve. He had about a 9 k/9 before his last start and his K/BB is still hovering around 4, while his whip is down at 1.11.

Like I said, while I certainly didnt love the trade, Johan is far from the Mets problem this year. He may be a big problem in 5 years, but right now, far from it.

Posted by: nrmax88 | May 25, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Rev, you make it sound as if Torii hunter was a good signing. I dont know what is wrong with Andruw, if it is injuries, if he lied about his age and is older then we think, or what, but IMO he was always a far better player then Torii Hunter, and I would much rather be stuck with Andruw for the next 2 years, even with how horrid he has been, then be stuck with Hunter for 5 or 6 years. We will really see whatsup when Jones has this knee surgery and gets back onto the field.

Posted by: nrmax88 | May 25, 2008 at 12:59 PM

nrmax88, as a long-time Braves fan I have to say that AJ's knee isn't what's wrong with him. He stopped listening to his hitting coaches, so he stopped making contact. He's still spectacular defensively but he has to start listening to his coaches to get his swing back.

Posted by: bravesfan91 | May 25, 2008 at 01:50 PM

Yeah, but you just dont go from a .260/.350/.500 guy to a .210/.300/.400 guy over night at 30 years old. It has to be something more then simply listening to coaching.

Posted by: nrmax88 | May 25, 2008 at 03:40 PM

"With the exception of Milwaukee and recently vs Atlanta"

He didn't pitch horribly in the Milwaukee game. In the last Atlanta game, he had horrible defense behind him. He gave up 2 "big hits" in the Atlanta game. A bloop single Chippers reached out for and a short line drive to LF by Teixeira.

Posted by: icedrake523 | May 25, 2008 at 06:39 PM

"The Angels jump in and get the 5-tool outfielder,"

There is no way the Dodgers were going to be able to offer the years Hunter was looking for. Hunter is 2 years older than Jones, which means taking a shorter term deal, even a Dodger style high pay for low years deal, would have probably been an economic loss for him.

"Rev, you make it sound as if Torii hunter was a good signing."

The way Hunter has played and the way the situation looks for the Angels next year, he was absolutely a good signing.

"I dont know what is wrong with Andruw, if it is injuries, if he lied about his age and is older then we think, or what, but IMO he was always a far better player then Torii Hunter"

Andruw is from Curacao, not the DR. The Dutch keep very good records about ages. As for being far better than Hunter, please stop drinking whatever the Moustache has been. Jones was a better power hitter, but Hunter is faster and has made better contact. They are both amazing defenders, so that is a wash.

"We will really see whatsup when Jones has this knee surgery and gets back onto
the field."

So, the Dodgers got damaged goods then and essentially wasted at least $9 million?

What should have happened is the Dodgers leave well enough alone and move Pierre to left (where he has played excellent defense, BTW), Kemp to Center (where he has played excellent defense and his natural position), and Ethier to Right (natural position, excellent defense) and saved $36 million.

Posted by: AA | May 26, 2008 at 01:20 PM

Sorry, I can't agree that signing a 32 year old mediocre Hunter to a 5 year deal is a good contract. I would make the arguement that Torii hunter isn't worth 18 mil during the best of times, and he will surely start to decline soon. Coupled with the fact the Angels were just loaded with OF's, I dont like the deal at all. Just because he is pefroming now doesnt make it okay. Santana has been very good also but it doesnt change the fact that the Mets gave him a stupid and horrible contract that is almost gaurunteed to hurt them in the next couple of years. As careers go, Torii has nothing at all on Andruw. They both are spectacular fielders, but nobody has anything on Andruw when it comes to playing CF, and Andruw always was a higher OBP and a higher SLG guy. And even is Andruw continues to not produce at all, atleast he is gone in a year and a half. the Angels are going to be stuck with Torii for a while, he could be the next Garret Anderson over there.

Posted by: nrmax88 | May 26, 2008 at 03:00 PM

"Sorry, I can't agree that signing a 32 year old mediocre Hunter to a 5 year deal is a good contract."

What is mediocre about Gold Glove defense, above average speed for a speed team, the best OBP of his career, 25-30 HR/40-50 2B power and a positive clubhouse influence? As much as I like Reggie Willits, he will never mean as much offensively or defensively to the Angels as Hunter does and Juan Rivera doesn't look nearly as comfortable at the plate as he did 2 years ago. Hunter has shown absolutely no sign of decline and there is no reason to think he wont perform through his contract.

"They both are spectacular fielders, but nobody has anything on Andruw when it comes to playing CF, and Andruw always was a higher OBP and a higher SLG guy."

At this point, Hunter is the better fielder than Jones, and their career numbers are actually quite similar, despite Hunter playing in a much more difficult environment for fielders. Faster, more athletic and a better arm. Jones still has amazing instincts and is willing to lay it on the line, but he isn't what he once was, and the current is what signed the contract.

As for the offense, Jones' numbers for slugging are skewed by his 3 big years. Not that he wasn't a constant offensive threat, because he was, but so has been Hunter. Further, Hunter's overall game has always been better, particularly since Jones lost his baserunning ability 7 years ago.

"he could be the next Garret Anderson over there."

If Torii Hunter is the "next Garret Anderson" I don't think the Angels are going to complain, given that Garret Anderson is the best player the Angels ever developed. Further, I don't know if you noticed, but Anderson is producing once again and was probably the best player in baseball the second half of last year.

Posted by: AA | May 27, 2008 at 12:58 PM

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Rosenthal's Latest: Hunter, Santana, Quentin

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