Gammons' Latest: Sabathia, Dunn, Harden

Not sure how serious the Rangers would/should be about acquiring anyone right now. But I think you'll start to see them in a lot of trade rumors (esp. for pitching) this summer simply due to their deep system.

I disagree that the Phillies don't have the prospects. A package including Cardenas, Carrasco and Marson would be a very good haul for any player.

What do you think the Sox would have to trade for Willingham?

Why are so many Cubs fans so dumb? It's annoying, and I'm a Cub fan!

1. You can't trade Vitters until after the trade deadline; even if you could, no team is going to give up on a high 1st round pick so soon.
2. Colvin has no value to other teams, he's another Cubs 1st round bust.
3. Hart is worthless; Veal is extremely marginal.
4. So in the above post, the lone valuable player is Gallagher. That won't cut it.
5. Don't chime in next with "Murton, Cedeno, Eric Patterson...." yada yada....all marginal value players.
6. Hence, CC will cost two top talents, the Cubs only have one. They should focus on more obtainable guys like Burnett, Meche or Wolf.

aap212-
$40, some navel lint, and a ball of twine?

uww1-
You think Sabathia would be a good fit with the Cubs? Shocker. That deal sounds great...except that Vitters' value is too low to make a trade worthwhile for Chicago, the bottom has fallen out on Colvin's value, Veal's future is in the 'pen where continued control issues hardly bode well, Hart's a MR, and Gallagher is a nice mid-rotation prospect. Quantity isn't quality; the Cubs have a ton going for them but their farm system isn't one of those things. If ANY other team is in on the bidding, CC isn't going to Chi-town. It's simply too easy for a NY or Boston to outbid them with prospects.

Tex ain't staying in Hotlanta either. At this point, to think otherwise is naive. He's just about posted a 'For Sale' sign on his forehead. The Braves might as well try to squeeze some prospects out of him.

'However, there's no way the Indians get 'two top talents' for him unless a team gets extremely desperate.

I don't think any team will get THAT desperate.

Start with the package the Twins got for Santana, and subtract a little off it.'

Desperation is what the trade deadline is all about. Otherwise, everyone would just wait 'til the winter to do their deals. But every year there's at least one blockbuster and CC is the truth; the kind of player you go after without reservation. I'm not saying he'll be traded, but if he IS, it'll be for AT LEAST 2 top talents (although, that's a subjective bit of rhetoric;; what constitutes a 'top talent'). Furthermore, someone with pay; I'd almost guarantee it. Legit aces don't grow on trees.

...And can we please put a moratorium on referencing the Santana trade when determining a fair rate of exchange? That was NOT an equitable deal; the Mets got lucky. Frankly, I think the Bedard deal is far more representative of what can be considered fair value.

Here's a wild high risk move, Sabathia to the Rays. The Rays definately have the pieces without giving up anyone they currently really need. The Rays would have a rotation of Sabathia, Garza, Kazmir, Shields, and Sonnastine which would go into the books as one of the scariest rotations. Also would make the Rays a good favorite to be locked in for minimum the wild card, give them a good shot at winning it all. They probbaly wouldn't be able to resign him, but they'd get the 2 draft picks as a consolation prize. So in other words they'd be trading prospects for a shot to win it all. High risk, high reward potential, but not going to happen... interesting to think about it though.

"Why are so many Cubs fans so dumb? It's annoying, and I'm a Cub fan!

1. You can't trade Vitters until after the trade deadline; even if you could, no team is going to give up on a high 1st round pick so soon."

That is true, why are Cubs fans so stupid? You bash them and then immediately say something that isn't true. Good job.

"start_wearing_purple this would be a good idea, but the Rays would have to give up Brignac, Jennings, and McGee/Davis, plus try to sign him, which would never happen."

That seems a little rich to me... But yeah, he'd be a strict rental.

He said to him, top talent means top 100 prospect. Are you trying to say that the Indians are going to turn those two comp picks into two top 100 guys? Really?

How about the Cubs just throw Howry into a deal and that way the tribe gets their precious picks AND some prospects. I think that could work...

"…Then they take the two 1st rounders and get those two top talents ~ thats easy..."

Um, no. 1st rounders and supplementals are far from sure top 100 talents. Also, the late round guys are usually signability guys, and the Indians (typically) don't pay over slot.

"start_wearing_purple this would be a good idea, but the Rays would have to give up Brignac, Jennings, and McGee/Davis, plus try to sign him, which would never happen."

Yeah, not happening, I was just throwing it out as a wouldn't this be cool. It would cost Brignac and Davis along with a lesser prospect. For the Rays and the new talent they can keep bringing up from the farm over the next couple of years it makes more sense to hold onto the kids and just keep getting better.

I have an interesting scenario here...

What if the Cubs got Fuentes from the Rockies, then traded Howry in the Sabathia trade so that Cleveland got thier 2 picks ALONG with whatever else was in the trade??

So the Cubs give up something like Gallagher, Colvin, Howry, and Cedeno (sub veal, Ceda, or anyone else), and the Indians gave up CC. This way, the Indians get a return PLUS thier draft picks, and the Cubs get their man. I know that most will say that Cubs don't want to give up Howry, and thats probably true, but if they could get another set up closer type that is a lefty, to go along with marmol from the right side, I think they could part with him. Any thoughts?

I posted this in the Burnett thread, but this one is probably a little more appropriate.

"...So if it takes prospects actually showing something at the minor league levels to gain some kind of real prospect value then does that not leave the Cubs with 0 players to couple with Gallagher? I mean, why would names like Vitters or Colvin even be included in the teams-fans fantasy packages?"

Gallagher is a top 100 guy, who more than that has shown something at the major league level. He is 22 and has outpitched Adam Miller at every level. Also, as you pointed out, he has pitched very well in a hitters park at AAA iowa, which you claim drastically makes the hitters numbers better. Factor that in and you have a guy with a whole lot of value, considering he is under control for about 6 years. Then you add in pieces that aren't top 100 but fringe guys like Colvin, Vitters, Veal etc...and you give them Howry, which will give them thier picks anyway, and I think a deal can get done very easily.

Aduncaroo, I completely agree with you. I think A package of...

Sean Gallagher (top 100 prospect)
Josh Vitters (top 100 prospect)
Bob Howry (2 comp. picks)
Eric Patterson/Ronny Cedeno (2 throw-ins)

for

C.C. Sabathia

"(remember, we were guaranteed that Murton/Cedeno/Marshall would get it done)"

By whom??

It sounds to me that you just had a completely logical deal put in front of you and don't really know what to say about it as the Indians homer that you are. Its fine, but all your "the draft picks make him worth keeping" stuff is thrown out the window when you include Howry in the deal. Then, put in a top 100 pick, plus a second base ML ready player like Cedeno or Patterson, along with one other very good prospect like Vitters or Pie maybe, maybe even Hill, and this could get done. Like I said, if it doesn't, it won't be because the GM wanted to keep the picks. it will be because they got a better offer. He is smarter than you are, obviously, and isn't going to let him walk for picks.

"(remember, we were guaranteed that Murton/Cedeno/Marshall would get it done)"
“By whom??”

…You. Go back and look at the first couple Roberts threads again…

“It sounds to me that you just had a completely logical deal put in front of you and don't really know what to say about it as the Indians homer that you are”

Gallagher = matches the Indians depth of 3-5 type starters, he may or may not ever win a spot in the rotation. Cleveland wants a top-of-rotation type, not more of what they have…

Vitters = illogical inclusion. 1) Injured 2) HS player (Indians don’t target those) 3) Has provided nothing in pro career (which should be at about 130-150 games to this point) 4) Wont be ML-ready in Indians current window to compete 5) Indians already have better 3B prospect(s) 6) Indians just drafted another College 3B a couple weeks ago… Should I go on?

Patterson/Cedeno = no use to Indians.

Howry = We are really reaching now, arent we?

Said package is about as illogical as you can get… But hey, whatever…

Hahaha, yeah ~ whatever Adun… Really, try to somehow push all you like, we all know you will, but its not going to accomplish anything and said package would never take place…

lmao, I'm with u dark. It's funny how the Cubs fans are trying to tell us who our prospects are and how they match up, trying to get one of the best pitchers in baseball on the cheap.

"...Yet it would be worse to take said package..."

You are not smart...at all. Howry = same picks, and you get two top 100 prospects. Lets do the math here Dark...

Which one is better?

A) Top comp picks
B)2 Top 100 Prospects, a 2nd base prospect, AND 2 comp picks?

I didn't know that was rocket science...but you appear to have made it such...wow.

" It's funny how the Cubs fans are trying to tell us who our prospects are and how they match up,"

Isn't this exactly what Dark did, being an Indians fan???

"Uh, where does it say Howry is a Type A FA? Cause I am pretty sure they release that list in the off season."

He was this past offseason, and his number look like this early in the year pretty much every year. He was definitely a type A FA this last offseason, and odds are very high he will be again this one.

You have to be the only person in the world that would try and defend a statement where you actually say two comp picks are better than the same two comp picks + two top 100 prospects + a servicable second base prospect. That makes no sense whatsoever, yet you still try and defend it?

"You have to be the only person in the world that would try and defend a statement where you actually say two comp picks are better than the same two comp picks + two top 100 prospects + a servicable second base prospect. That makes no sense whatsoever, yet you still try and defend it?"

Lump me in as well then, because we don't need your serviceable infielder (we have a few ourselves, and they have performed better at the ML level than yours), we don't need your two top 100 prospects when we have two of our own there (Mills and Miller). And we sure as hell do not need Bob Howry and he ZERO compensation picks.

Adun, you are seriously the most annoying troll I have seen…

“You have to be the only person in the world that would try and defend a statement where you actually say two comp picks are better than the same two comp picks + two top 100 prospects + a servicable second base prospect. That makes no sense whatsoever, yet you still try and defend it?”

…Uhh, yes! A SP prospect that will be fighting for a back-of-rotation spot with the teams current SP prospects, a guy that you don’t want to offer arbitration to, a guy that makes zero sense what so ever for your club and two throw-in crappy-hitting non-prospect middle infields? Atleast 2 DPs could give me a single piece I could use or would like to have around….

But seriously, why are you still trying to illogically argue something you yourself claim wont take place anyway? Its rather pitiful man…

Nah...just saying that A is not as good as A+B+C. not that hard people.

But like you said, it probably won't happen because some team is going to come in with a better offer. I'm just pointing out that the Cubs could put together a package much, much better than Cleveland just taking the two picks.

grimace455, its not about the free agent crop. Every player is ranked, free agent or not. So out of every reliever in baseball, he has to be in the top 20% for the last two years. He had an excellent year last year, and will probably end up with a good year this year. Being that IP are one of the criteria, I think he will definitely make the top 20%. Again, you have to remember that it has nothing to do with him or anyone else being a free agent. Every player is ranked against every other player of that same position.

The tribe would be dumb not to offer it because some team is going to pay Howry a bunch of money. Look at the Linebrink deal this last offseason. Believe me, he will get it offered to him by whomever he is with, and he will decline in order to get another 3 year deal, which he will.

I'm not throwing a fantasy package out there, I'm throwing one that could actually happen. Ramirez is not as logical...actually not even close.

“Here are the rankings. Look in the reliever section, Howry's pretty high up there”

…Yes, and you’ll also notice that guys like Marmol and Wood (guys you should be familiar with) have 60 and 45 points respectively based off one seasons worth of games. Howry tanks (or gets hurt) the year, and he will easily be passed by a ton of guys. The difference between 90 and 50 points is much less than one would think ~ esp when it comes to relievers…

“The tribe would be dumb not to offer it because some team is going to pay Howry a bunch of money.”

…Howry tanks this year to the tune of a 5-6 ERA (or worse, gets hurt) and Cleveland offers him Arbitration. Knowing his value is at an alltime low, Howry decides its best to take it and get his big deal after 2009. Howry tanks 2009 and Cleveland is left with nothing. This is actually a highly possible situation; one which makes a Howry inclusion illogical for the Indians (a team that wanted him to walk a little over 2 years ago). It aint gonna happen ~ but obviously you’ll still argue it as if it somehow makes sense…

Notice that Bob Howry's pre all-star break ERA is 4.15. Notice that his post all-star break ERA is 2.99. Notice his 4.25 and 4.21 ERA in April and May. I think there is a VERY good chance that he rebounds. He will get at least a 2 year deal in the offseason because the always injured Octavio Dotel get 2 years. If he knows he'll get 2 years, he will decline arbitration and the Indians will get their oh so important picks.

…Oh come on people, this isnt hard…

Type-A cutoff for the NL was 70-ish last year. Howry’s 06+07 = 85-ish points. 05 was a bit better, but they were fairly close so we’ll say Howry probably sits somewhere around 40 points for 2007. That mean Howry needs 30+ points to make a Type-A again ~ atleast ¾ of his 2007 performance I imagine. If he posts a 4.5-ish ERA on the season, he most likely falls short… Type-B was 55-70 points, a rather small window to make it into. He’s probably likely to do so of course because of that 40-ish he carries, but if he carried a 6.5-ish ERA for some reason, or was injured before the end of the season, then he may very well fall short.

Point = Howry is not a guarantee to be a Type-A, and there is always the possibility he doesn’t even rank. You cant just say “well he is a second half performer” and stuff like that because BP arms, more than anything else in baseball, don’t follow track records ~ they are a complete crapshoot year to year and you never know when one will impload… His bringing DPs also being dependant on the team offering arbitration means that’s it a huge gamble and not nearly the “add Howry to the package and you get the 2 1st rounders” claimed…

…might hold onto type-A, could easily fall well short as well… But all of this was for what though? Just to argue?

"Hmm...sounds like type A to me. I don't bring it up to argue, but to prove a point, which obviously has been done here..."

...And that point is that you can never have a point in a thread, but still somehow manage to argue for hours? You’ve proved that many times in the past, you didn’t need to do it again…

Anyway, believe whatever makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, you will anyway; and I’ll check back in about 15 mins to see the next argument you want to try to pull out of your ass…

"…Dodgers are probably the team he ends up with if he is actually dealt ~ they have the prospects, and they are prospects they are reluctant/refuse to actually use because they have that Vet obsession. They also know that CC wants to pitch in Cali if he doesn’t stay in Cleveland. A package of LaRoche, maybe James McDonald"

What Vet obsession? They are one of the youngest teams in baseball and have players 26 or under at 5 of 8 fielding positions. They appear to be positioning LaRoche and/or Hu as Kent's replacement at 2B and have Pierre under long term contract and he does provide tools that are not exactly common.

I do like the package you talk about, minus Ethier, for Sabathia. McDonald is good, but still unproven and LaRoche fills a need for Cleveland, and seems more suited to that environment anyway. Such a package for Sabathia allows the Dodgers to deal Lowe this year after Penny can figure out his command issues (I am not buying a serious injury, because his velocity is way too high for it to be that). The one worry I have with Sabathia is the same one I have with Penny, and that is his expanding waistline. Sabathia's size is going to catch up with him, and seems like it already may have. Inserting him into Dodger Stadium, however, should help. Still, no way you touch the protected guys for him (Martin and Billingsley don't even enter the conversation, I am talking here about Kemp/Loney/Broxton).

"Anyone know their payroll well enough to know if they could resign him? Don't Nomar and Kent come off the books next year?"

Nomar and Kent do come off next year, though Martin and Broxton (and Ethier if he stays) will be arb eligible and get raises. Figure $5 million for Martin, and $2.5-$3 million for the other guys. Still a net loss of payroll. Furcal may or may not be resigned, though his back troubles may make him cheaper. Lowe comes off, and that is a major chunk. The Dodgers are actually looking at dropping about $30 million in Lowe/Nomar/Kent. Nomar may well resign for cheap to be the utility man, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

All that means the Dodgers can easily afford Sabathia, especially with revenue on the uptick with all the stadium improvements and the like. Remember that the Dodgers are one of the most profitable teams in baseball despite not owning any sort of media outlet. They do it basically on tickets sold and merchandise.

“Sabathia's size is going to catch up with him, and seems like it already may have.”

…Sabathia pitches better when he doesn’t focus on his weight. And I’m not quite sure how you figure it will catch up to him considering there haven’t exactly been many pitchers who failed because they were heavy, but tons who have excelled while being overweight.

That said ~ Sabathia is a huge longterm risk because of the amount of innings…

“I do like the package you talk about, minus Ethier, for Sabathia”

…Actually not really sure if they would do it without Ethier though, unless the others included were pretty good. Don’t think the Dodgers would mind including him either; well atleast as long as the 18-Mil dollar man is able to step on the field sometime in the next 30 or so days… I like McDonald, a lot, but there is also the possibility that he needs to be replaced with someone else as well ~ not sure. Tough to say how the Indians feel about him, since such a package would be stronger bat/lesser pitcher (opposite of what Cleveland would rather have) Dodgers have pieces to get this done though, and I do think that’s where he goes if they trade him. Penny’s questionable play and (surprise, surprise ~ he was seemingly compensating for…) injury, makes it even more likely they go for it in my mind.

Plus, don’t just assume the Dodgers wont trade Kemp. I don’t think/hope they dont either, but… (well, unless they dealt him to the Tribe of course, then I’d be all for it)

Oh, and…
“They are one of the youngest teams in baseball and have players 26 or under at 5 of 8 fielding positions.”

…Solely because they are forced to do so with all the injuries… If they had their way, Ethier or Kemp would be on the bench and Nomar would be at 3rd ~ you know that… All in all, the team would rather have only one of Kemp/Ethier, Loney and Martin as far as kids on the field ~ that’s 3/8 despite having better young players available to them at most positions…

yep, yep, yep ~ whatever Adun...

Howry is known to be a second half pitcher around the league. He gets better as the weather gets warmer. You are making this too difficult.

You caught a glimpse of my post, then copied and pasted nearly the whole thing? Hahaha...right.

The only way CC will stay is if they actually have a shot at the division, which isn't completely out of the question. However, with Martinez going down...odds are that it is probably the case by the deadline. I'm trying to tell you here that they aren't going to keep him because of the two picks...because that is nothing compared to what a true Ace like Sabathia can and probably will bring back. The draft picks have little to nothing to do with any of this...

Oh, Darkstar, here it is from the Dodgers. Penny's shoulder is absolutely fine structurally.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080616&content_id=2943234&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

“Name a few. The best pitchers have always kept themselves in shape.”

… I’m not about to get into yet another pointless stupid argument like that. There is just nothing to prove such a theory, there is nothing that says weight is a problem on pitchers. Its like saying really skinny pitchers will struggle after a couple years ~ it doesn’t have any basis for it, its just some random thing to say… I don’t care either way, I’m hoping it will be someone elses problem to find out (because I don’t trust his arm staying on after these innings and hope they don’t sign him if for what he wants) ~ but its only the fans that whine and cry about his weight (which has always been there) being a possible problem, insiders almost never mention it as a possibility…

As for the other things: The Dodgers have continually played/signed (or tried to sign) vets when they had kids ~ people have been complaining about it for years. Kemp was almost traded last year, almost traded in the offseason and the team was rumored to be wanting to deal him a couple days ago ~ not sure what to tell ya. We had to suffer through a 4 week nightmare where everyone with an opinion on the game was complaining hourly about how stupid the Dodgers were for having Pierre slotted over Ethier in LF ~ and the team opened camp with a 3-man platoon with him on the heavy side. LaRoche and Nomar were to be platoon mates, Andy getting the LH ABs of it unless Nomar was spelling others. None of it really matters though, so no biggie if you feel differently…

As for Penny… Good news for them, but there is pain and he is compensating for it so whether its an issue that is large enough to show a major injury or just fatigue ~ either way its frightening. Other option is that he is just losing it for whatever reason, something like we are seeing with Zito and Willis ~ but who knows what he will be like the rest of the year…

I don't see why they need to trade him. I think the injuries to Westbrook and Miller increased the need to resign him. If they could reach a deal where CC got his years and the Tribe got some ability to opt out then they should do it in a heart beat. There is a decent chunk of money coming off the books for next year too. Blake, Borowski, Byrd, Michaels (I don't recall if Pittsburgh picked up any of his tab). That's close to 20 mil coming off the books, and seeing as how ticket sales are good (even with the way they are playing) even with contract escalation for players under contract the Indians should have enough money to sign CC and possible land a decent FA as well.

“The team above looks a lot better than the one out there now”

That team didn’t really change though, despite a good chunk of tradable chips being sent off or forced into roles they would absolutely have to perform in. The only real difference ya got going on offense is Atkins, one bat. On the starter side of course we take a gigantic blow ~ now down an Ace while relaying on two pitchers with no experience, Lee to continue his hot play and Carmona to come back and instantly pitch like he had prior to the injury. Not to mention it’s a rotation of a 1-2 type, a 2-3 type and 3 4-5 types ~ not encouraging when trying to make a run… Any slippage and the pitching will not have anyone to use as reinforcements either.

The Indians two major problems this year have been offense and bullpen. Anyone who says Borowski is a reliable closer is out of their mind. The indians have had absolutley no production from the 3-4 holes in their lineup. Atkins gives then a consistent power bat to fill the 3 hole, or 4 hole. If i was Wedge, i'd move Grady to the 3 hole, and put Carroll in the leadoff spot. Marmol has some of the nastiest most dominating stuff of any reliever in baseball, and is a huugggee upgrade over Borowski.

Darkstar,
You say nothing reallly changes, but though it looks that way, i disagree. The Tribe offense has actually been heating up as of late with Choo and Francisco finally providing some production out of the corner outfield spots, and Jamey Carroll has been an on base machine, with Grady on a homerun tear. Sizemore is second in the league in homers with 17 and hes stuck in the leadoff hole. I think Laffey has proven to be a very solid starter, and theres no way Cliff Lee is a no. 5. I just think, if the Indians acquired one consistent big name bat in the middle of their order, with a strong staff, not a dominant one, they'd be better than if they had no legitimate RBI power bat, and a terrible closer, with a dominant staff.

In my mind this lineup is a very significant improvement.

1. Carroll
2. Francisco
3. Sizemore
4. Atkins
5. Hafner
6. Garko/ Blake
7. Choo
8. Peralta
9. Shoppach

And having a strong starting rotation with a shut down pen, is better thaan what we have now. I wish we could just resign C.C. and be done with it, but sadly thats not looking very likely, so i'd like to get the most we can for him, with out giving up on this year because the division's so weak.

Shap,

Nah, I was calling Lee a 2-3, with Carmona (obviously) the 1-2 and the 4-5’s coming from Byrd and the two guys in their first couple months (Laffey and Gallagher). Just leaves next to no room for error, and if one of Byrd/Laffey/Gallagher tanks then you are out of the race. If Lee regresses too much (which he will do at least a bit, its bound to happen) then you are possibly out of the race. If Carmona doesn’t come back strong, out of the race… That rotation is just too risky since there would basically be nothing to fall back on.

I agree Sizemore should bat 3rd ~ the reason I was hoping the Indians would jump on Roberts since the Cubs wouldn’t offer anything more than a Gallagher + Scrubs package.

I agree that Atkins helps the lineup, he is the one I’ve said we should target (and stay as far away from Holiday as possible). That said though, I don’t think there is any way you can do it while trading CC away at the same time. Make your trade for Atkins, trade one of the extra OFers or a minors guy to someone for a BP arm and go with the much better CC/Carmona/Lee/Byrd/Laffey rotation. Trading CC pretty much means we don’t compete, unless they bring in someone like, say, maybe Dunn + Prospects in return…

Agree the team can easily catch the WhiteSox if they had a couple things go right for them ~ lets see if anything goes right for them though…

PS, Blake would probably be backing up 3rd, 1st, getting some AB at DH and spending the rest of the time in the OF if your moves take place. Best to keep DavidD (who we owe money to, is a better fielder and has more power upside) than to worry about taking Murton from Chicago as well. His being out of options next year would only end up creating problems when all 5 OFers being out of options in 2009. If you want a Murton type, then Cleveland can just call up Brown…

Yeah, I hear ya ~ but don’t be worried if we keep CC, compete, and then take the DPs. Signability guys fall in the draft, Near ML-Ready BP arms fall in the draft, character issue types fall in the draft. Cleveland can use their DP and the two from CC to get three 1st rounders and grab a couple guys with large to huge ceilings who can help much more than some of the names being mentioned.

Doing nothing = probably bad idea ~ but I don’t see him just sitting back. If the Indians make up a game or two more, then they will be buyers ~ not sellers. Cleveland has already been talking to teams about available players, he knows who is out there and about what it will take.

"Dark and everyone else who thinks the cubs don't have enough to trade for cc you are wrong. Scouts.com has the Cubs having four prospects listed in the top 100. MLB Insider has the Cubs having two prospects in the top 45. I don't know what you are reading but the Cubs have enough to get CC."

The prospects who ranked highly are generally doing their best to fall off said lists this year. But even if that wasnt the case, the Cubs prospects dont match the Indians wants/needs ~ the Cubs have a ton of projectables who may or may not pan out years down the road; Cleveland needs guys for the next 1-3 years...

Its not a fit...

4 years of Marmol is more valuable than 4 months of CC straight up. There is no way in hell Marmol is going in a deal.

Did Dark really say keep Dellucci? he is awful, and the fact that you act like he is better than Murton is just straight Tribe homerism.

Agree about dellucci. But i don't see why they wouldn't be willing to part ways with Marmol. They have the money to sign C.C., and if they acquire C.C., it makes them the World Series favorites, and i don't think Cubs fans really care about anything else at this point.

CC to The Phillies for Greg Golson / Carlos Carrasco / Gus Milner / Adrian Cardenas / Fred Galvis

CC to The Padres CC for Kevin Kouzmanoff / William Inman / Matthew Buschmann / Allen Harrington

CC to The Giants CC for Joseph Martinez / Ben Snyder / Pablo Sandoval / Matt Downs / Shane Jordan .