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By Tim Dierkes [June 11, 2008 at 8:46am CST]
New Rosenthal. Seems like he just put a column out a few days ago.
- Rosenthal believes the Dodgers would consider trading a young player (especially Matt Kemp) for a slugger. He discusses what it would take to get Jason Bay, Magglio Ordonez, Adam Dunn, or Matt Holliday. This all seems like a bad idea for the Dodgers.
- There are certainly arguments for the Rangers to keep or even extend Milton Bradley. But Rosenthal thinks he could net "multiple high-end prospects" if Jon Daniels goes the trade route. He says the Rangers could shop some of their veterans while also trying to acquire a controllable reliever.
- Rosenthal's best guess is that the Pirates will trade Xavier Nady or Jason Bay but not both. He says Neal Huntington is not under pressure to clear salary.
- The Cubs are interested in Brian Fuentes, which is a new one. Rosenthal adds that Jim Hendry plans to pursue the best available starter.
- The Brewers have many quality minor league trade chips, and they may be looking for a starter.
- Minimal trade interest in Huston Street, and the A's have backed off the extension idea.
- The Yankees are "aggressively" trying to move LaTroy Hawkins.
- The Dodgers wanted to do an Esteban Loaiza-Juan Uribe swap, but the Sox just waited them out and signed Loaiza.
- Rosenthal says the Phillies "lack the prospect inventory" to get an impact starting pitcher, which I don't agree with. He says they may look for another lefty reliever or bench bat.
The Dodgers would be stupid to trade Matt Kemp. That guy could be a superstar and he's far from the problem in LA.
I'm thinking the problem is giving out contracts to guys like Nomar, Schmidt, Andruw, etc.
Posted by: Papelboner | June 11, 2008 at 09:11 AM
Uncle Ned should pursue Kenny Rogers, Ray Durham, Frank Thomas, and every other over-the-hill 38+ year old on the trade market. Hehe
Posted by: Johnny Rotten | June 11, 2008 at 09:59 AM
Rosenthal pretty much spends the entire section talking about dealing Kemp. Plus, there were legitimate rumors last year that the Dodgers would listen on him.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | June 11, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Colletti is, in a word, an idiot. Just how much longer can he keep acquiring deadweight (Loaiza, Schmidt, Jones, etc.) without getting in trouble from ownership?
Posted by: Devlsh | June 11, 2008 at 10:37 AM
I agree that the Phillies have enough trade chips in the minors to acquire a pitcher if they want. Carrasco is a top 100 prospect and has improved this year relative to last year (more K's). Cardenas is a good 2B prospect who is blocked by Utley. Savery is struggling some but is tradeable.
The Dodgers would be fools to trade Kemp for any of the guys that are available. It would be one thing if they had included Kemp in a deal for Miguel Cabrera last offseason. But Kemp is already an above-average MLB hitter at 23 and he shouldn't be traded for anything other than an elite slugger, none of whom seem to be available.
A smarter move would be to hope Hu gets it going at AAA and then package him with James McDonald for a bat.
Posted by: mymrbig | June 11, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Let me run this one by everyone as a possibility: Teixeira and Will Ohman for Kemp if LA feels like Loney could survive in left field (I know he played a few games in the OF in the minors). If not, maybe Teix for Loney straight up, maybe some prospects going either way to grease the wheels a bit? Any takers?
Posted by: ABraveNewWorld | June 11, 2008 at 11:15 AM
Ok, this is completely out of hand! Ned needs to be fired, like right now! The team would be better off having all the FO decisions go to a poll at the stadium then let this buffoon keep chasing his dreams of putting together a 2001 all-star club…
“I have an idea, why don’t we trade Kemp and others for a player who might produce a tiny bit more than Kemp” ~ Brilliant… ***sigh***
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 11, 2008 at 11:18 AM
I would LOVE for the Reds to land Kemp for Dunn. If I can remember correctly, didn't Walt Jocketty try real hard to land Kemp when he was the Cardinals GM>
Posted by: redhawk61 | June 11, 2008 at 11:44 AM
Street's career: 9.3 k/9, 4.1 k/bb, 159 ERA+, 24 years old, prone to a crappy April. I know he hasn't been 100% healthy in his career, but that should garner more than "minimal trade interest"...
and Rosenthal and/or Daniels are on drugs if they believe they could net "multiple high-end prospects" for Molten Bradley....how do two healthy [and productive] months erase six injury-prone, hot-headed years?
Posted by: scatterbrian | June 11, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Tim, I would love to see a GM overview comparing Coletti and DePodesta.
Posted by: scatterbrian | June 11, 2008 at 12:00 PM
“and Rosenthal and/or Daniels are on drugs if they believe they could net "multiple high-end prospects" for Molten Bradley....how do two healthy [and productive] months erase six injury-prone, hot-headed years?”
…Not to mention the fact that the list of teams who might be interested would probably include such clubs as Cle, LA, Oak and even longshots SD (how are they still only 7.5 out?). Remove those four from bidding though, and who’s left? I cant imagine the Mets bid against themselves to the tune of "multiple high-end prospects"…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 11, 2008 at 12:02 PM
“and Rosenthal and/or Daniels are on drugs if they believe they could net "multiple high-end prospects" for Molten Bradley....how do two healthy [and productive] months erase six injury-prone, hot-headed years?”
I see what you're sayingm but at the same time, if you're Jon Daniels, why do you trade him if you can't get at least one, probably two real legitimate prospects?
If nobody is going to offer something that nearly equates two first round picks, why trade him and accept less value than you would net by letting him walk in a few months?
Posted by: N41D | June 11, 2008 at 12:07 PM
How do the Phillies have enough to get an impact pitcher at the deadline? You would have to think that other teams with deeper systems have more to get a number two or three pitcher. Aren't the Phillies ranked somewhere in the 20 range in terms of talen on the farm? I am just asking, I don't know, maybe Tim/Philies phans can enlighten me on this.
Posted by: jwrocks | June 11, 2008 at 12:36 PM
“If nobody is going to offer something that nearly equates two first round picks, why trade him and accept less value than you would net by letting him walk in a few months?”
…People sometimes forget that you actually have to offer arbitration to receive DPs for FAs. Some players you don’t want to risk being stuck with once again; Milton is generally the best example you find.
Trading him at the break for good, but not extreme value is probably the way to go; holding onto him, watching him blowup, and wanting nothing to do with him (as has been the case with his other teams) means you end up with nothing… But then you find the problem of so few teams having any interest at all (remember, 3-4 of maybe 5-6 interested teams want nothing to do with the nut) ~ so if I was the Rangers I would be on the phone ASAP trying to get Omar to pony up anything special… Take advantage of said production and the desperate need in NY at this time; don’t wait to be holding the bag of doorknobs that Milton almost certainly will throw at someone come September though…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 11, 2008 at 01:22 PM
"why do you trade him if you can't get at least one, probably two real legitimate prospects?"
my point is that he's not worth giving up multiple high-end prospects, let alone two real legitimate prospects....Bradley's been great so far this season, but knowing that he's missed about 40% of his teams' games over the last six years makes Bradley way too risky...
Posted by: scatterbrian | June 11, 2008 at 01:38 PM
The Pirates are unloading Bay and/or Nady to make room for Andrew McCutchen and/or Steve Pearce. A trade involving either of them will require pitching in return, not another outfielder, albeit Kemp is a very good one.
Posted by: LongSufferingBucsFan | June 11, 2008 at 02:53 PM
The ChiSox had an opportunity to unload Uribe and didn't jump at the chance?
Posted by: Aaron | June 11, 2008 at 03:01 PM
How's this, Philly:
Baltimore gives you George Sherrill and Brian Burres and you give us Adrian Cardenas, B-level prospect of choice (Golson, Donald, Drabek, Brown, Taylor), and Heitor Correa (Rookie-Lg. level pitcher). You get BOTH the top lefty reliever you've been looking for AND depth/help for your rotation (albeit, not a frontline option; still, Burres has been solid by and large, in the AL East) for a blocked prospect in Cardenas and a couple low probability prospects.
Posted by: milehigh78 | June 11, 2008 at 03:30 PM
Milwaukee, I got one for you too, since you were part of the original post as well.
I got your starter in Jeremy Guthrie. Compare his numbers over the past two years with any of the options on the market (not CC obviously, but the Blanton/Burnett class of pitcher). Now take into account that he's under team control on the cheap until 2013 and isn't even arbitration eligible for another year or two. We'll hook you up with him and, say, Chad Bradford if you'll give us O's one of LaPorta or Gamel and a couple secondary prospects (I said secondary, not crappy no name cats. Somewhere in the Gillespie, Evercart, Gindl, Escobar, Salome, Braddock, Rogers class). Whaddya say? I'm crrrraaaazy! But these deals aren't gonna last. Get yourself down to the Baltimore firesale and you too can pick the flesh from this corpse of a once proud franchise looking to rebuild!
Posted by: milehigh78 | June 11, 2008 at 03:39 PM
"Rosenthal believes the Dodgers would consider trading a young player (especially Matt Kemp) for a slugger. He discusses what it would take to get Jason Bay, Magglio Ordonez, Adam Dunn, or Matt Holliday. This all seems like a bad idea for the Dodgers."
Rosenthal is full of bad ideas. Kemp is already a better hitter than Dunn, better defensively and faster than any of the 4, less injury prone and has higher upside, not to mention that he still has at least 1 more season before being arb elligible.
"Rosenthal pretty much spends the entire section talking about dealing Kemp. Plus, there were legitimate rumors last year that the Dodgers would listen on him."
What legitimate rumors? That the Dodgers asked about Buehrle and told the ChiSox to F' off when Kemp was mentioned? That when Beane asked for Kemp in exchange for Blanton, when the Dodgers were desperate for a 4th and 5th starter last year, the also refused? That the Dodgers added Kemp to the "untouchable" list with Martin, Billingsley and Broxton when Florida mentioned him in the Cabrera talks? Kemp is already a proven .300+ hitter in the majors, has shown all 5 tools and really just needs work on his patience at the plate to complete his game. All this, and he is wont even be 24 until September. How stupid does one have to be to trade a guy like that?
As for Ethier, that is just as stupid. If it weren't for Grady Little's stupidity in giving Jason Repko 130 mediocre ABs and Jose Cruz 223 more, Ethier would have had a legit shot at ROTY. He is an even better fundamental defender than Kemp, with almost as good an arm (rated one of the best in baseball by the Sabermetric types), 5 tools and is left-handed. He is arb eligible this year, but given the way he has slipped under the radar, I bet the Dodgers could even lock him down to a cheap longer term deal.
Posted by: AA | June 11, 2008 at 03:49 PM
"Rosenthal is full of bad ideas. Kemp is already a better hitter than Dunn"
...Where that is just absolutely, undeniably, flat out wrong ~ I do agree otherwise that you dont trade Kemp for Dunn because its poking out your right eye in an attempt to save the left...
Truth be told, its extremely unlikely that Kemp can keep up the 300 BA (that .393 BAbip is going to come down) and his lack of power is a tad disturbing. That said though, he is playing well, he is one of the main pieces for the future and he cant be dealt for a short-term and mainly minimal upgrade…
PS, Dunn in LA would be crazy ~ he would probably be sending them off the Ravine, onto the free-way and having them show up somewhere down by the Queen Mary…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 11, 2008 at 05:19 PM
-In response to milehigh's post about Milwaukee...
Jeremy Guthrie is not at all a kind of pitcher that the brewers are looking for. The brewers are looking to win now, but also have in mind the future with their farm system, so they arent looking for a 29 year old, so-so pitcher. The brewers aren't going to give away a TOP NOTCH prospect like Laporta (who is compared to and projected to have numbers like Ryan Braun and Manny Ramirez). LaPorta will be an opening day starter next year, and Jeremy Guthrie wouldn't even be in the rotation for the brewers next year. You also mention that the brewers would have to throw in a couple, additional, secondary prospect, like Escobar, who could potentially be the brewers starting shortstop in 2 years. If the brewers were ever to give up prospects like that, they would be looking for a pitcher like brandon webb, not jeremy guthrie. The brewers have (and want to trade) MLB ready hitting such as bill hall.
On the other hand, I personally have not heard much about starting pitchers that the brewers are looking for to help the rotation. If anyone knows about some of these pitchers that the brewers may be willing to trade for, it would be nice to hear about.
Posted by: glover28 | June 11, 2008 at 05:32 PM
Colletti may at times indeed be an idiot, but Ken Rosenthal is consistently one, just as he is consistently wrong about almost anything. I know we already accept that these are just rumors, but when they come from Rosenthal I particularly don't bother getting my undies in a bunch. Rosenthal also has talked in "blaming the kids" mentality regarding the Dodgers since last year for whatever ails them so he seems to have the ears of many a veteran when he passes on his gobbledygook. In the World Series last year he got his facts wrong literally at least three times when speaking as a "sideline reporter". In short {shrug}, forget it, Jake, it's Rosenthal-town.
Posted by: Craig Phillips | June 11, 2008 at 06:21 PM
I wouldn't trade Kemp for anyone of those guys. But I think Ned does need to deal a Loney,LaRoche, Ethier, or Broxton. Watching these guys day in and out, it doesn't look like anyone of those offensive players will become power hitters. This goes for Matt Kemp as well. It may be too early to tell, but how long should Ned put up with a bunch of singles hitters? Trading Loney now and using LaRoche at 1B could provide an opening for a Texeira signing.
Posted by: jskohl | June 11, 2008 at 09:47 PM
UPDATE on one of my previous posts:
“so if I was the Rangers I would be on the phone ASAP trying to get Omar to pony up anything special… Take advantage of said production and the desperate need in NY at this time; don’t wait to be holding the bag of doorknobs that Milton almost certainly will throw at someone come September though…”
…oops ~ too late…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 12, 2008 at 10:56 AM
milehigh I don't think the Phils would love Burress...lots of baserunners, and that 2006 BB rate is really alarming. While better, I don't think he's a really significant upgrade to Moyer or even Eaton. Considering the price, I'd rather give a Drew Carpenter or even Carrasco a try in the rotation and try to catch lightining in a bottle like with Kendrick
Sherrill is interesting, how much longer is he under control? The thing is, even though nearly everyone in the Phils pen has pitched above their heads so far, a team like the Yankees needs Sherrill a lot more and would probably give up more.
I think all the prospects you list are gettable in a trade, but Cardenas should be the 2B come 2011 (Howard walks) or in the mix in LF in 2010. Golson is probably the 2010 CF, maybe sooner. I think to move these guys, the Phillies would need a higher-impact starter, someone who can miss bats in August in CBP. I'm not holding my breath that the Phils will do anything significant on the trade front
Posted by: wayne gomes | June 12, 2008 at 02:22 PM
"...Where that is just absolutely, undeniably, flat out wrong ~ I do agree otherwise that you dont trade Kemp for Dunn because its poking out your right eye in an attempt to save the left...
Truth be told, its extremely unlikely that Kemp can keep up the 300 BA (that .393 BAbip is going to come down) and his lack of power is a tad disturbing. That said though, he is playing well, he is one of the main pieces for the future and he cant be dealt for a short-term and mainly minimal upgrade…"
He hit .342 last year, so it doesn't seem like a fluke. The high BAbip is easily explained in that Kemp strikes out a lot but makes hard contact and has the speed to beat out a lot of infield hits. He just gets thrown out at first a lot less than the average player. He has also boosted his walk rate
As for the power, he has boosted his doubles and tends to be a streaky home run hitter anyway. Further, his lack of patience recently has hurt his power numbers, but given what he did to that Zambrano slider, I don't think that anyone can question that the power is there. He also happens to be first on the Dodgers in RBI.
The final 2 things about Kemp may be the most important. There is no doubt the guy has the size and swing to mash XBH, but he also has the speed to steal 40 bases a year, which is a big part of his high BAbip. He is also a serious plus defender who is better at this point than the guy he has been better in the field than the 10 time Gold Glover he has replaced. He has a cannon for an arm, lots of range and has only made 1 error all year (and that was playing Right).
"But I think Ned does need to deal a Loney,LaRoche, Ethier, or Broxton. Watching these guys day in and out, it doesn't look like anyone of those offensive players will become power hitters. This goes for Matt Kemp as well. It may be too early to tell, but how long should Ned put up with a bunch of singles hitters? Trading Loney now and using LaRoche at 1B could provide an opening for a Texeira signing."
Trading Loney of all people? Next to Martin, Loney is probably the best of the Dodgers' young bunch. He wasn't forecast as a power hitter in the minors, so his power in the majors has been a pleasant surprise. What he is is a defensive wizard who makes amazing contact with rather surprising power (or unsurprising if you look at the size of the guy). He saves runs on defense and creates runs on offense. He is third on the Dodgers with 33 runs scored and second with 32 RBI, and that is despite a significant slump which he has been mashing his way out of. Oh, and lets not forget that he is left-handed, which is an advantage defensively and offensively over LaRoche.
Ethier is a rather similar player to Loney and has put up very good numbers despite his ability to hit lefties mysteriously disappearing. He easily projects to a 20 HR/40 2B kind of guy and is another plus defender, both with his glove and with his arm.
Posted by: AA | June 16, 2008 at 04:14 PM
BTW, anyone else notice how Kemp is quietly on his way to a 100 RBI season?
Posted by: AA | June 19, 2008 at 01:05 PM