Manny Ramirez Rumors: Thursday

I have no clue what is going on! Tim please post weather you think this deal will happen

idk wat to think of this trade as a marlins fan, i wanna hear the prospects and stuff first, tim wat u think will happen?

U know yesterday they made it seem like it was a done deal....that they were jus waiting to dot the I's and cross the t's.

If were jus waiting on pittsburgh here well hurry up...u gave the yanks a great deal on marte and nady....so do it again.

If were waiting on the sox...for wha I duno cuz its obvious the marlins will take manny and that the sox will pay....they have a lot of prospects and remember bay, grabow, and wilson are signed for next season....I'd think its worth them giving up 2 prospects and after jed playin ss the last few days I say it again....hurry the heck up.

If pitts can't get in......sub pitts for col....instead of bay grabow and wilson.....holliday, fuentes and barnes...

We've only got a few hours to go so what are we gettining for xmas in july gifts or coal???

Fyi we still need bullpen help so stop teasing us w/ manny hoopla and talk arm rumors.

wat about, hermida, jai miller, and ryan tucker for bay and grabow? no sox

Heres an idea, kick the Pirates out of the talks, and do the original Hermida, Stanton and Tucker and another prospect for Manny and someone else like Ellsbury, Pedroia or Papelbum. That'll work me!

yanks26ngoin, ellsburry??? no way they give him up, ill take it tho as a marlins fan! :]

Here is the link that breaks down the trade and what they know as to what players are involved.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/30/0730ramirez.html

wat do u mean quite a few games out themainevent? were 1.5 games out! were very much in it, hopefully we get molina and ramirez today and i think we are serious contenders.

I don't consider either of these two sources to be very credible as far as breaking sports news. It seems that there are a few different deals going around right now.

Kevin Goldstein explained this last night on BP at around midnight. He had Pitt getting Tucker, Stanton, and Hermida with Graboy and Bay going to Boston. I'm guessing there's one more guy going somewhere in this deal, I just don't know who. I think it's still going to go through though.

MY FELLOW SOX FANS! This is a good thing for the sox, however losing manny is going to be HUGE come playoff time. This is a win-win-win for all 3 teams involved though, especially the Red Sox. They replace manny as successfully as you can and pick up a long relief southpaw. If you ask me thats a pretty effective trade. subbing bay for manny in the line-up shouldn't hurt the offensive production too much, especially considering their numbers are so similar this year. Bay is great for the sox too cause he's only 30. same for grabow.

Bay is only 29 and Grabow is anything but long relief he is really a misused lefty specialist just like marte was the problem is the Pirates bullpen is so thin he was forced into a set up role that was over his head oh by the way Sox fans Grabow has a nagging left shoulder problem.

I hate this. I loved watching Manny hit in a Sox uniform and the man is scary in the playoffs. That being said, I guess they don't have a choice, considering Manny's latest comments. I'll be happy with Bay and a solid relief pitcher, but I'm not really sold on Grabow. My head hurts just thinking about this.

The team is better with a focused and quiet Manny Ramirez. However, it doesn't look like that is going to happen and the coaches/players seem to finally be done with the Manny Being Manny show. I can't see them walking away from this deal because Manny could quit on them at any time.

If Manny would just shut up and play out the year, the team would most likely decline his option and he can go get a new contract, but all this B.S. he's got coming out of his mouth is just shooting himself in the foot. How does he not realize this?

I don't know that Manny will stay like he is now. Once he gets a little attention for his antics he usually takes them further, and I don't think he'd say/do stuff like the Iran comment or the Farve sign if he didn't think people would see it. If he stays, I see him focusing after the deadline and getting back to business. And I'd like to see him stay, because he's a great hitter and still our best chance at a world series.

Heres my take on the issue, coming from a yankee fan perspective.

The sox should do what ever they can to move this guy. He is a distraction to clubhouse, the fans, and management. the sox have lost 5 of their last 6, coincedence, or is manny really stirring the pot that much. I have to say that manny is a disstraction enough that is affecting their play. Dont get me wrong, im happy the sox are losing, but looking at it as a BASEBALL fan, Manny is causing the sox games.

If they can get grabow and bay, the return is worth it.

How much can the sox put up with, he is embarassing the team, and management.

Deal him while you can!

I would prefer to see Manny go to LA for Kemp. Long-term Kemp is going to be a stud and he is very good right now. Supposedly, LA would move Kemp for Manny. If that is the case, that is the best for Boston long-term and it does not hurt as much as many will think for this year:

Pedroia or Ellsbury
Kemp or Pedroia
Ortiz
Youkilis
Drew
Lowell
Lowrie or Kemp
Varitek
Ellsbury or Lowrie

we need to keep manny. i dont care what anyone says he is the best hitter in the game and there is no one out there they can trade for that would even match his numbers in the regular and post season period.

"Like a Marlins fan said above, I still think this should end up being a far smaller deal where Bay goes to Florida for Hermida and a prospect"
No way Bay would go to Florida for Hemida and a prospect. The only way I see a direct trade with Bucs/Marlin would be for Hermida plus 2-3 prospects, 1 top level and 2 mid level or 2 top prospects in addition to Hermida.

r the pirates open to trade bay to florida?

FLA Gets: Jason Bay and John Grabow
PIT Gets: Jeremy Hermida, Ryan Tucker, and Jai Miller. Also, will Renyel Pinto go, I really don't like him as a pitcher.

The Sox are better off with Bay and Grabow. Manny is causing too much trouble and is not even giving his full effort. The Sox get a viable replacement in Bay and a good lefty reliever in Grabow.

If Stanton is off limits, Bay should also be..

This guy has been the Pirates best for the last 4 years. Lets not make a trade, just to make a trade.

Miller and Pinto bring nothing to Pittsburgh.

Re: Tucker, before this season he was projected to be a reliever long-term, but he's improved by leaps and bounds. While it's still possible that relieving is going to be his eventual role, projections have been revised upwards.

look i'm a die hard sox fan and i really believe that Manny isnt going anywhere at least for the rest of this year. i think it would be stupid on the sox part not to pick up his option but i feel like i'm the only sox fan out there that believes that and that sux

"Should Tucker really be *that* important? Isn't he projected to end up in the pen?"

The projections I found from googling around the interweb mostly have him projected as at least a #3 starter, possibly even a #2 if he figures out how to pitch and works in some off-speed stuff.

Tucker is definitely a deal-breaker for us Pirate fans. I can sorta understand not getting a frontline A++ pitching prospect for Nady/Marte but for Bay? Uh-uh. He's gotta bring it or no deal.

I do secretly hope this is just the Bucs way of screwing with the Rays and getting them to loosen their iron grip on the Hellickson/Price/Davis trifecta. All we ask is ONE of them. Just one.

Give us one of them plus Ben Zobrist and one other lesser prospect and they can have the Bay/Grabow deal.

Honestly, the Rays would be monumental idiots not to. If they cut off the Sox to Bay, then what do they do? They aren't going to find a better hitter to replace Manny, let alone a new LF and a lefty specialist.

Don't let these teams bend you over Neal!! Stand tall and make them give up the goods or walk away!

Nixa,

From BP's Goldstein before this season: "Tucker's secondary offerings still lag well behind his fastball, as his slider tends to flatten out more often than not, and his changeup is rudimentary. Many wonder if he could be far more effective in a bullpen role, believing that he could sit at 97-98 mph if he only had to throw 15-20 pitches per outing."

I probably went a bit too forward; just seems that whenever you see the "fastball only" implications, the guy ends up in the pen.

I'd argue that Jack Wilson needs to be sent to Boston as well if this trade does go down. LaRoche and Freddy are hurt, and although he says he doesn't want to be traded, no way will he be happy being the only veteran on a rebuilding team. The Pirates missed their chance last deadline to send Wilson to Detroit for Jair Jurrjens...no way will the return for Jack be as good this year...but he has to go if Bay is traded.

Jack Wilson should go to Boston??!?!?

What are they going to do with Lugo and the 2 years remaining on his contract(at 9M a year)? That just doesn't go away.

If I were the Sox I'd take Bay and Grabow for Manny. Addition by subtraction, plus they've got Bay for another year at much less than they'd have to pay Manny. Cut ties with Manny and add a descent bat and bullpen arm in the process, no brainer.

America seems to agree with Jayson Stark. FoxSports.com has a poll up and after 127,000+ votes, it's a dead even 50/50% shot.

I'd like to see this deal get done, but if it doesn't I hope Manny picks up and starts playing again. I've seen five year olds run to first faster than Manny has the last couple of days.

I haven't responded at all but have been reading this thread...there is NO WAY what baseballnuts there suggest is going to happen.

2 top 100 spects for Wilson? Oh and a 3rd to boot?

4 spects for Bay 2 of which are fringe top 100?

I know this sort of decides the Pirates fate for the next 5 years on the MLB side but come on. I'd rather have Hu in my lineup as a Dodger fan for 400k than Wilson let alone give up LaRoche and another player. Just ridiculous and if that happens, the Pirate fans better NEVER complain about Hunington but of course that would only last a week or 2 before the complaining started up again.

Oh and by the way, there is no way they are getting Tucker, Masterson, Lowrie, Hermida and another prospect or 2 for Bay/Grabow/Wilson. I'm just shocked at how much you seem to think these players are worth. That is 4 MLB ready players and 2 additional prospects. When you factor in payroll, your proposals make no sense for anyone but the Pirates but I guess you are a Pirates fan. Absolutely shocked! :D

I say the Red Sox best bet to make the deal Manny to Florida on there own .

Then make a seperate trade Hermedia and a couple prospects for Bay . And be done with it .

All 3 teams have made this trade to complicated by trying to include Grabow and Wilson in the Mix .

They keep this up and nothing is what will end up happening .

When was the last time a 3 team deal was pulled off .

Those deals with the way contract are structured no adays just don't happen and i don't think this one has a snowballs chance in hell of happening .

if the deal hangs on masterson theres no way its going to get done. the marlins should throw in hermida, they're probably going to have to let him walk in 3-5 years, he'll just be another home grown player they wont be able to sign

milezd...since when do the Red Sox care about the total salary of their team? They don't care one lick about Lugo's salary. Last I checked, Lowrie was their new SS, and Jack is an immediate upgrade over him.

walkoffblast...the Pirates are looking for a return for Bay simlilar to what they got for Brian Giles. A ready prospect (Bay) a power arm (Ollie Perez) and at least one more prospect. Bay is younger and better than Giles was when he was traded. And why shouldn't they ask for the world. It's not over-valuing Bay, it's trying to get maximum value for what you have to offer contenders.

I don't see this deal happening unless Boston ups the ante. Florida is losing big if they are giving up Hermida, Tucker and Stanton. And Pitt is losing big if they aren't getting a Hermida, Tucker and Stanton level return for Bay AND Grabow.

It just doesn't make sense from these teams short and long term perspective to really be in this deal. Getting Bay back for the Red Sox would be a coup given the circus disaster that Manny is in the center of right now.

I would say that Bay currently has 2x the value of Manny. A) he's signed cheap next year B) he's pretty good C) he's not a distraction. The red sox are really cornered into selling Manny for 50c on the dollar at this point. But they also need to get a decent replacement back.

"Many of these Pirates fans are delusional about Bay's value possibly including those in the front office."

Actually, I think front office types are delusional about the value of their prospects.

Everybody was gaga over the haul the Rangers got for Tex last year. How did that work out? The Yankees held on to Hughes/Kennedy instead of trading them for Santana. How did that work out for them?

Yeah, those two might be good 2-3 years from now but then the rest of the team is old or gone. They want to win NOW.

All these teams should want to win now. You can't count on winning every year. Look at the Tigers. World Series one year, can't even make playoffs the next two. Indians were World Series picks this year, they end up with being one of the worst teams, record-wise.

It makes no sense to hold on to 20 year old AA OFers or 22 year old AAA pitchers who may or may not be good in a couple years when somebody like the Pirates are offering a PROVEN bat that will let you win today.

I'm not saying bankrupt your farm system or just give players away but if somebody has a quality player out there, and Bay is a HIGH quality player, holding on to future hopes instead of going for the championship today makes no sense to me.

Gammons has been senile for a while Now & likes to hear himself talk

On a side note, does anyone have a really hard time loading this site the past month or so? I just get blank pages 95% of the time and have to just keep hitting refresh 10-15 times till it loads. Then when I go to make a post, I have to go through the whole thing again to get signed in and then again just to get my post in. I suppose it could be on my side but it's the only website that I have this happen so I'm not sure what it could be.

I will lose all faith in mankind if Ned trades Kemp for 2 months of Manny.

Please Tim, don't even post this stuff, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Not sure how accurate this is, but it just went up on ESPN: Yet another official with one of these three teams says the Manny-Bay deal is dead. In the aftermath, the teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them.

Looks like that Kemp/A.Jones deal might get a little more steam now. Gotta say, I love me some Matt Kemp in a Sox uniform.

this from rotoworld:

According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the Pirates have agreed to the prospects they'd receive in a Manny Ramirez-Jason Bay-Jeremy Hermida deal.

whoops, spoke to soon . . .

ESPN's Jayson Stark said an official with one of the clubs said the three-team Red Sox-Marlins-Pirates deal is dead.

According to Stark's source: "The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them." We fully expect another update five minutes from now saying a deal is nearly done.

Local on XM said deal is dead and Bay will stay a Pirate.

I hate people reporting the deal is dead. It is NEVER dead until the deadline passes. Its the oldest trick in the book to call the deal dead to try and increase your bargaining power and return. Enough with the reporters saying the deal is dead!

"Looks like that Kemp/A.Jones deal might get a little more steam now. Gotta say, I love me some Matt Kemp in a Sox uniform."

I would much rather them make that deal then this three-way train wreck. But then the Fenway OF would be a little too crowded (Jones, Drew, Ellsbury, Kemp, Crisp).

id still like to see the deal go through without the pirates involvement. trade manny to the marlins for there everyday left or right fielder, a reliever and stanton, i dont care about the pirates or bay anyway

i dont take to much stock in these writers much anymore. i remember when they said the daisuke deal was dead last year thirty minutes before the deadline, come to find out like five minutes after it he was on a plane to america to play for the sox. considering how pretty much every writer in the WORLD, managed to somehow miss a player like Griffey Jr getting traded to an odd choice of team in the ChiSox, i wouldnt hold my breathe saying this deal is dead until late tonight

Late tonight?

Deadline is at 4PM. If nothing is done by 5, forget it.

Trade Manny for a couple of baseball bats at this point, he's negative value for the sox right now