Offseason Outlook: Cleveland Indians

Without thinking too hard about a deal, I think the Astros would be really interested in Shoppach. Strong defensively, showed off his bat this year, and Drayton loves him some Baylor boys.

The first player I can think of that the Indians might want would be Wigginton--could something be worked out there?

Considering that there are about a half-dozen teams desperate for a starting Catcher, Wiggington isn't nearly enough return for Shoppach, especially when you consider that the OF is not the Tribe's highest priority.

I don't think Carlos Santana is 3 years away. He could be ready as early as '10.

In addition to Jensen Lewis, there are possible Closer candidates from within (although you can never bank on rookies) in Adam Miller and Tony Sipp. I could see a deal for Huston Street, as well.

I think the Indians should package Shoppach with another nice prospect or two and go after somebody like Josh Johnson of the Marlins. A #3 or better Starter should be a priority.

I'd like to see Peralta slide to 3B, Cabrera to SS and a deal for a 2B (Kelly Johnson, Rickie Weeks?) LaPorta to 1B if he's ready.

South Korea routinely grants exemptions to military service for their international sports heros (the national pride thing, you know) so here's hoping for an all-star 2009 for Mr. Choo. Barring that avenue, I would think that Choo would prefer to become a naturalized U.S. citizen than abandon the lucrative career of an MLB player. That bridge gets crossed when it is reached.

The Jays and Indians would match up pretty well in trade.

Perhaps a combination of BJ Ryan + Adam Lind for something could really fill some needs for the Indians.

Ryan gives them a top notch closer, and Lind is a very good young player who can play a corner OF next season, DH, or even go back to his old college position at 1B.

What do you guys think of something like Ryan + Lind for Peralta?

Toronto's been lacking a quality shortstop for ages, and Peralta might be questionable defensively, but he would certainly provide some much needed offense. Plus, the Jays have elite defenders all around the infield with Rolen, Hill and Overbay, so they should be decently fine in that regard.

I think the idea of Adam Miller at closer that was mentioned earlier makes a lot of sense. I know that Gutz has a lot of potential, but he hasn't realized much of it in the bigs, so I'm not sure how much of a return he'll bring. Francisco is a guy I'd hang onto as the 4th OF/platoon partner for Choo. As good as Choo was in the second half, he's never really hit LHP all that well. Francisco is a bit better vs. LHP, plus he's a guy that can cover the whole OF.

I know that Indian fans probably won't this idea, but Cliff Lee is at his all time highest value right now, and only has one year left on his contract. He's going to go from under $6M a year to over $12M in no time. Why not see what you can get for him? Would Allen Craig, Bryan Anderson and Jaime Garcia from STL be enough? That would give you a catcher to put behind VMart this year, allowing you to deal Shoppach at his peak value also. With Anderson, you can go slow with Santana if needed, and hopefully once Santana is ready Anderson has improved his trade value to near Shoppach level. Allen should be able to come in at 3B in 2009, which wouldn't hurt either. Garcia could easily compete for a rotation spot next year also, and he's a #2 upside type. I'm sure there are other deals out there that could be had, just the first one that came to mind.

I'd also see what I could get for Garko, as first base is likely to belong to one of VMart/LaPorta/Mills in the next few years. He had a good second half, so he might have some value. With Dellucci under contract for 2009, I'd personally wait until after the ASB to bring up LaPorta, delay the service time a bit and get(hopefully) something for the money you're paying Dellucci.

I really think Jensen Lewis deserves a shot but if he wont be given a chance, any chance he can be dealt?

I was thinking of something like the Rays trading the Tribe Reid Brignac and getting back Lewis and a cool OF. How long is Sizemore locked up? The rays sure have enough and would give a lot for him or Upton to play RF.

1 last thing, Peralta's bat good enough for DH? Rays need both a DH and RF

I think it's most important for the Indians to solidify their rotation and add a closer, not improve their offense. A rotation of Lee/Sowers/Carmona/Reyes/Laffey simply won't be enough to contend. A lineup with Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, Hafner, Francisco, Choo, LaPorta and Cabrera should do enough to be very productive.

They need to package together guys like Shoppach, Garko, Barfield and Gutierrez in order to add some decent depth to their rotation. I love the idea of Josh Johnson but realistically he's their ace and would cost a massive amount. But if they could land maybe Scott Olsen or that type of young starter it would be huge. A rotation of Lee/Olsen?/Carmona/Sowers/Reyes could be far more formidable.

But I think it's undoubtable that this team needs to persue starting pitching, not offense.

"South Korea routinely grants exemptions to military service for their international sports heros (the national pride thing, you know) so here's hoping for an all-star 2009 for Mr. Choo. Barring that avenue, I would think that Choo would prefer to become a naturalized U.S. citizen than abandon the lucrative career of an MLB player. That bridge gets crossed when it is reached."

They only grant that exemption if the player is part of an Olympic gold medal team or Asian Games gold medal team. Choo was not allowed to participate in the Olympics by MLB. So he will have to serve.

I also doubt he would renounce his citizenship. I can't imagine most of you would renounce your American citizenship simply to avoid serving your country in the military and make money in a foreign country.

Grimace, maybe you aren't aware that the Indians were 7th in runs scored in 2008 ahead of the Mets, Phillies and Yankees. More offense is always good but it's far from the Tribe's highest priorities.

RoyalsRetro, you are right about his status with the Olympics and all, but do you honestly think this guy would give up millilons of dollars just to serve Korea in the millitary for two years?

I can't speak for him, but I myself gave up my citizenship not too long ago so I would become a U.S. citizen, and I'm not even making millions of dollars here in the states. Choo is going to make millions and there is no reason for him to sacrafice that. Yes there is the whole pride thing and all, but he can still play for Korea in WBC and help the country in some way, eventhough that way may not be the "right" way in Korea's eyes, but still. What I'm trying to say is that I can't see him give up millions of dollars just to serve in the millitary.

grimace, it would be a far larger mistake to focus on offense all summer and then go into the season with a rotation of Lee/Carmona/Reyes/Laffey/Sowers.

The Indians have multiple young players with no spots on their team, it would make far more sense to see how we can use them to improve the staff. Really all we need is a third baseman, an worse case we can move Peralta there and move Cabrera over and bring up Barfield. The outfield would be fine with Sizemore, Choo and Francisco, which leaves Gutierrez an Dellucci. And then there is LaPorta, who will start getting at bats in left and at first soon. The Indians may not have any elite mashers but a lineup with Sizemore, Martinez, Hafner, Peralta, Francisco, Choo and Garko/LaPorta would be more than adequate

I would like to see them move Jhonny P. to third, and sign Orlando Cabrera, giving them an all Cabrera double-play combo to help the pitching staff. He could also bat second which has been a problem the past couple seasons, then go after pitching.

He is a MRI waiting to happen. O-cab catches everything. He may whine to the official scorer, but he is a winner.

Indians need to worry about getting a starting pitcher and not a shortstop. Anything they do with positional players should work out. Peralta SS, Cabrera 2B, Carroll 3B, Garko 1B works. Or, Peralta 3B, Cabrera SS, Barfield 2B, Martinez 1B, or Garko at 1B. Or LaPorta at 1B.

Getting a SP will be a challenge. Who to deal, who not to deal. Do they hand the job to Lewis as a closer? and wait for Adam Miller to become a dominant closer? Or do they trade for one?

I can't wait for the winter meetings. I think that's when the Indians acquire one of those two holes, if not both.

Per an interview with Wedge on mlb.com, he states the team needs a closer first and foremost then a power hitting corner bat. If Lee comes close to putting up his numbers this season he is a lock for #1. Carmona rebounds in the slightest he is #2. They have a mad hard-on for Reyes so he is likely #3. After that they have 2 slots to fill from a pool of Lewis, Laffey, Huff, Sowers, Bullington, and Jackson. And that's not counting Westbrook's return from TJ mid-year. If anything they probably nab a reclamation project at starter to compete with the others for a spot. Also, Miller is basically an after thought at this point, he has to prove he can last a season without succumbing to multiple injuries before he becomes a cog again. Lewis and Huff have moved ahead of him in regards to starters and in terms of relievers there are a score of others that have done more. Jensen Lewis has earned a spot in the bullpen but the club is hesitant to just give him the ball, hence a push to either sign a FA closer or trade for one (it is possible the Indians were the team that claimed Street). After that 3B needs to be filled. Marte isn't it and the club has stated repeatedly that Peralta is the SS. If any of their trade chips move it will more than likely be for one of these positions, not for a starter.

OK people, Cleveland fan in the house.

The Indians do have plenty of depth everywhere except relief pitching, but who really does?

The Indians' needs are:
1. Closer
2. Mid-Rotation Starting Pitcher
3. Leader in the Infield
4. Relief Pitcher Depth
5. NOT an outfielder

We'll start with #5 because everyones suggesting they trade for an outfielder...

WE HAVE SIZEMORE, FRANCISCO, GUTIERREZ, CHOO AND LAPORTA, WE DO NOT NEED AN OUTFIELDER!!

Now, back in order...

#1 Closer. Obviously, the Indians haven't had a real closer since Wickman (JoBo doesn't count), and it shows. Get what you can Shapiro, Huston Street, Fuentes, whoever. That's the #1 Priority.

#2 Mid-Rotation Starting Pitcher. Much like our infield (see below), there lacks leadership in the Indians rotation, seeing as the only veteran is Cliff Lee who is very inconsistant (check his career stats people). Now, not saying he'll go from 22 wins back to 5-8 with a 6.29ERA, but... you get my point. Number 2 Priority is a veteran starting pitcher for the sake of giving the rotation structure and experience.

#3 Leader in the Infield. I remember back in 06 when Garko hit 45 RBIs in 50 Games... even so, Garko still did pretty decent this year considering how off the Indians were, so I don't know why everyone is bailing on him. If you ask me, VMart and Garko should split first and Shoppach should split time with V at catcher to preserve V's arm. "BUT SHOPPACH'S TRADE VALUE IS HIGH!" Because he's good! He's always been good as a backup and he might as a starter, but Shoppach is all we got from the Crisp trade and I'm not ready to give him up, and Shapiro's not either, because that's gonna make him look like (more of) an idiot.

As For the rest of the infield. Barfield (2B, SS?), Cabrera (SS, 2B), Peralta (SS, 3B, 2B?), Carroll (3B, SS, 2B)(re-sign him) and Marte (3B)(if he still is with us). That's a lot of depth for 3 positions, unfortunately, none of them are a solid starter (Peralta because of his defense). Get a Solid guy to anchor our infield!! We have enough depth at each position to support whoever we get, just get a Sold Infielder.

#4 Relief Depth. As simple as this will sound... it's not very complicated, pickup a closer, then sign a veteran reliever to help em out... can't really say more about relief pitching...

Oh, and about Adam Miller. Shapiro missed his chance to trade him 2 years back when his injury-proneness wasn't so apparant, but his chances of staying healthy enough to come out and pitch every other day as a closer are slim to none...

Yes, but pay attention to Shapiro's history. Pitching has always been a big need for this team, and Shapiro has always shied away from the big-money Starter or Closer in favor of a reclamation project or second tier veteran FA on a short contract. Paul Byrd. Kevin Milwood. Scott Ellarton. Jo Bo.

As much as you won't like it, he'll probably stick with this pattern to address the pitching needs, as his philosophy seems to be quantity, and finding someone to emerge out of a pool of 8-10 arms to round out the rotation. One of those guys will be a veteran FA signing.

The key need that the team will pursue--take Wedge at his word on this--is a power corner OF or 2B. If they get a 2b, then Peralta moves to 3rd and Asdrubal takes over SS. If they get a 3b, Jhony and Asdrubal stay put. Marte is done with this team.

They won't move Shopach until they are 100% certain in Victor Martinez. The real competition on the team is at 1B / DH where Pronk, Garko, Martinez and eventually LaPorta are in the mix.

Again, look at Shapiro's record. The Indians never, never get the top-end FA. It just doesn't happen. Part of its that they are gun shy, part of its that those guys just don't choose Cleveland. Shapiro's track record of success comes in 2 areas: 1) scouting other organizations to win trades for prospects, 2) signing a lot of veterans / reclamation projects cheap and having one or two of them come through to contribute to the team.

Max Power, are you saying that you don't like Shapiro's style? Because I personally don't see anything wrong with that trend. Yeah you're exactly right, that's what Shapiro is known for doing. Personal opinion though, I'd rather have a pool of 8-10 young arms, making very close to minimum money, and a chance to become a star one day (Sabathia and Lee) rather then one big name pitcher that all my money goes to that has a chance to get hurt in the process.

Hart who used to be Indians GM and Shapiro was under him in the 90's, used to be the same way. Except Hart loved to have a pool of young hitters, instead of pitchers. Shapiro loves young pitchers. He learned from Hart that when you're a small market team you have to have a bunch of young players in order to stay competitive from year to year. I like their strategy to stay competitive.

Okay I changed my mind on Orlando Cabrera after today. But would still like to see a solid fielder play up the middle with Asdrubal.