Odds and Ends: Cabrera, Sabathia, Gillick

One more chance with Daniel Cabrera? No No No! He is the drunk, abusive husband and the O's fans are the battered wife. Enough is enough.

I heard there is significant interest in Sabathia from the Giants Tim. I would even call them the frontrunner. The reasoning is the way he's mowed the NL this year, his hometown discount, and preventing him from going to the rival Dodgers. If this deal goes through the Giants will have the green light to send Cain for a Prince Fielder. If the Brewers get involved I can easily see the Phillies in it also. It all depends how the playoffs play out.

If the Giants added Sabathia and traded Cain for Fielder, would they be competitors..?
A rotation of Lincecum, Sabathia, Sanchez, Zito and Lowry with a solid lineup could actually be solid. I'd just be concerned that the Giants would regress from a legitimate rebuilding plan and get stuck winning 75-85 games for the next 5 years.

The Giants likely will find a taker for LH Jonathan Sanchez before taking offers for Cain. A package of Sanchez, another minor league starter (Bumgarner and Alderson the exceptions) for a bat like Dan Uggla, Jorge Cantu or Ryan Zimmerman could work. Only time will tell! There is a good chance that Sabathia WILL end up in the orange and black next season!

I know I'm going to be in the minority on this, but I think the Orioles should try to sign Teixeira AND Furcal. It would deepen their already strong lineup, bring stability to SS, and greatly improve their infield defense over Millar at first and the revolving door at SS they had. Then, when they bring back Cabrera, he might pitch better with a better defense behind him, and would also help their up-and-coming starting pitchers.

By the way, I know this will not happen. I just personally think it would be a good move.

Even with CC and Fielder I dont think the Giants have what it takes to contend with the 2009 Dodgers who I feel will resign Manny Ramirez, and will need to replace Derek Lowe. The Giants, if things go down as Sabean wants them to, will still need to strengthen their bullpen which has been horrible. However, Sabean could ask for bullpen help from the Brewers to package with Fielder. They also need to establish an everyday 3B. Jose Castillo was a waste of time. I heard Pablo Sandoval could play third which would be interesting considering he's a good hitter however can he play 3B defensively everyday? This is a contract year for Sabean, he's gotta make something happen if he wants Neukom to give him a new contract. And whoever said sign Mark Ellis, 0 chance of that happening. Remember Kevin Frandsen? The job is either his or Eugenio Velez's to lose.

Actually, I think the Giants have a chance to be competitive, with or without CC. Their whole plan was for a youth movement and so far they progressed nicely this year. Sandoval showed show very nice signs and Fred Lewis was solid. If they keep progressing and developing next year I don't see why they can't be a .500 team, which would make them contenders in that division.

I don't see CC going to the Giants but if those rumors turn out to be true, that pitching staff in that park will be downright nasty. There are some bright signs for the Giants, I mean even Zito pitched very good over the last month with a 3.15 ERA and 1.28 WHIP striking out 27 in 34 innings, which is the most life the Giants have seen out of him.

nothing kills a bullpen like a starter that go deep into ballgames, and that's something Cabrera can do. he showed a stretch at the beginning of the year that he can control himself throughout the game. He had a stretch where he didn't walk anyone for 3 straight starts, which is a big step for him. He just needs to control his temper is all. I say 3 mil is worth another try. He eats innings which is good for a bullpen like that.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that adding CC and Fielder (while subtracting Cain) will take this awful team to a contender. All the Giants will accomplish by doing that is inflating their payroll and further hamstringing the team with another huge contract (or 2 if you count signing Fielder to a new deal).

The Giants may have had a losing season but they weren't awful. We came out of this season with an All Star Closer, a Cy Young Ace, 3 to 4 Solid young position players (Lewis, Sandoval, Burriss, Scherholtz?) and rebuilt our farm system. This team was supposed to lose 110 games!!

Not to mention the team had great chemistry. It was a great year for a rebuilding team.

What you non Giant fans need to understand is...

* We have $$$
- We dumped Bonds last year which saved us $20 mil.
- We're dumping: Aurlia, Durham, Vizquel.
- the Giants have one of the best parks in the league that brings in $$$.

* We have top level prospects to trade or bring up in the near future: Villalona, Bumgarner, Alderson, etc.

* We play in an awful division!!

Signing CC doesn't really block a prospect or drain our bank. Our payroll dropped $20 mil last year after consistently raising every year. Lincecum wont be making $$ for at least 3 years.

Trading for one or a couple of big bats in the infield doesn't really stop development of young players.. Sandoval, Burriss, Lewis and Scherholtz will all get their ABs even if we get a Uggla or a Fielder.

So why not go for the division..

Ideally they'd...

Sign CC to a shorter contract for more money (4 years - 100 mil.)

and

Sign a veteran BP arm to bridge the gap to Wilson.

and

Trade Cain for Fielder

OR

Keep Cain

Trade Alderson, Sosa, Bowker? for Uggla.

and

Sign a veteran BP arm to bridge the gap to Wilson.

And

Trade Sanchez+ for Zimmerman

Either way, we're gonna be...

2009 NL WEST CHAMPS!!!

And all of this is totally possible.. its all up to Sabes.

Actually, CC to the giants is a very real possibility. Sabean has mentioned on the giants flagship radio station knbr680, in a hypothetical scenario, that the giants would be willing to take on another zito-like contract for a starting pitcher, if it were the right guy. A guy who can relate to the fans as well as be as dominant a pitcher as is out there. When asked specifically about cc and other pitchers, Sabean refused to comment and changed the subject as not to chance tampering.

Regardless of whether or not CC signs, the giants should NOT trade Matt Cain. The return of Fielder or Howard would not be as significant to their overall offensive production as moving Sanchez and keeping Cain. A package built around Sanchez with whatever it takes to get Zimmerman in a deal would be more significant short term and long term. The amount of money it will take to lock up either Howard or Fielder long term will affect the ability to pay Lincecum, who has to be priority #1 whenever he allows it, as well as pay anyone else.

Added to the Zimmerman deal AND a CC signing, a pitching staff anchored by:
CC Sabathia
Tim Lincecum
Matt Cain
Barry Zito
is much more likely to allow the giants to keep the score of the game down for a lineup of:
Lewis
Winn/Schierholz
Sandoval
Zimmerman
Molina
Rowand
Burriss
Frandsen/Velez

The addition of Zimmerman alone to the lineup adds instant offense, nothing like a real true cleanup hitter, but much more offense than the last 2 years, as well as locks up the hot corner, the biggest need defensively. This allows the giants to continue their youth movement without sacrificing the farm system which is just getting back to respectability. It also allows more payroll flexability and the chance to slow down the rush to development of guys like Sosa, Alderson, Bumgarner, Villalona, Noonan, Pucetas, Gillespe, Posey, and Anderson.

If the giants can resign Rich Arulia and get 2 decent relief arms through free agency, they would definately be in position to compete next year. The division is not that good so it may only take a few pieces to put them in that position.

The Giants offseason pursuit should be:
-deal Sanchez + ?prospects for Zimmerman
-sign CC
-resign Aurilia
-sign 2 "B" bullpen arms or 1 "A" and 1 "B"
-dump Correia

With a team looking like this:
Licecum- $405K
Cain- $2.5M
Sabathia- $12M (back load his contract for the 1st year payroll increase)
Zito- $18.5M
Lowry- $4.5M

Wilson- $400K
Hinshaw- $400K
Valdez- $400K
Romo- $400K
?Type B- $1.5M
?Type A- $2M
open spot- $400K

Molina- $6M
Rowand- $8M
Lewis- $400K+
Burriss- $400K
Sandoval- $400K
Winn- $8.25
Zimmerman- $465M+
Frandsen- $400K

Velez- $400K
Sheirholtz- $400K
Holm/Alfonso- $400K
Aurilia- $4M
Roberts- $6.5M

Thats approx $80M another $10M in their 40 man roster and non tenders. Its up $13M from last year but with the new owner and Sabean in his contract year, and the contracts off the books next year (Winn, Molina, Aurilia) $16M and if they can find a taker for Roberts $6.5M, that could be $22+M they can reduce payroll next year with guys waiting in the wings in the farm for all of them.

they can also try to unload winns 9mil right now through a trade and commit to shierholz. rather than zimmerman, id like to see them get two bats in a trade, say uggla AND cantu from the marlins-Even if took Sanchez and an Alderson/Bumgarner, etc i would be on board with that seen as if the giants sign CC its going to be another 6-7 year deal and we have several other young arms anyways. I just dont see only one bat doing enough right now. cantu burris uggla and sandoval across the infield looks good though, with lewis rowand shierholz in the outfield- youth and some power

Where did all these Giants fans hear that Ryan Zimmerman would be available via a trade? and esp. a trade centered around Sanchez. Uggla I can understand Marlins, have a 2B on the way and can't tie up too much money until their stadium is built. Zimmerman? what does Jonathan Sanchez do for the Nats? give them another #3 starter? Nats already have plenty of those, Lannan, Redding, Balester. The Nats need an Ace and what they really need is a Bat so i don't see how trading Zimmerman would help them.

I agree with Steve026 and bjsguess. What makes you think Zimmerman can be had for Sanchez and weak prospects?

Zimmerman is their best player, and he is what constitutes as a franchise player for that terribly run organization. If I were the Nats, or Bowden, for that matter, I would only consider a Zimmerman trade to SF if it included a potential ace prospect, a top hitting prospect, plus Sanchez.

Zimmerman is a great defensive fielder, not to mention he had a pretty good career BA of .283. He's hit his share of homeruns, and projects to be a 30HR player in a better team and out of a pitcher's park.

I'm telling you, man. After the embarrassment Bowden went through after butchering up contract talks with Aaron Crow, he's not going to make a stupid decision like trading their best player, who is only 24 by the way, for a pitcher with a top 3 ceiling without also asking for some top prospects.

To all Giants fans:

I will need a link to provide me with proof that CC will accept a hometown discount to play for the Giants. Either a Giants fan or AA, because from what I read from him, he knows what he says is true/has some truth before he spits out Homer statements.

Even with the acquisition of Sabathia, your rotation is weak behind Lincecum and CC. If you trade away Cain, you trade away a #3 pitcher in that rotation, which could be the best 1-2-3 in the MLB.

Also, Prince Fielder in your lineup still doesn't make it a playoff lineup, even in a weak division.

I don't think the Giants should be wasting all that money on CC, and then fall short of the playoffs because the team still has a lot of holes to fill.

CC is going to the Dodgers, Mets or Yankees (in that order of likeliness) before the Giants get mentioned. No shot.

You're exactly right, AA. I should have clarified myself. I really don't think Brian Sabean and Company are going to throw a ton of money at a (hefty) lefty pitcher again, considering what happened with the Barry Zito fiasco. Then again, it's Brian "the Matt Millen of MLB" Sabean we're talking about, so you never know. I just think it's much more likely that the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees or even the Angels get CC before the Giants do.

To all “The sign CC for the Giants!”crowd: I have heard nothing about the Giants increasing payroll if you have provide a link. The Good new we have heard nothing about then shrinking pay roll. So yes the Giants have money this year. Maybe next year. But after that him and Zito will be chewing up $40MM a year out 85MM ( give or take). Figure 10MMyear or more for Tim and the team is down around 35MM for the other 23 roster slots. I assume you want to keep Fielder or what ever heavy hitter they get so that’s at least another 15MM off. Down to 20MM to pay for over 20 roster slots. That figuring you have traded Rowand, Cain and found another closer after Wilson. I know CC is a home town guy but this just does not fit unless you want to spend the next 5-6 years enjoying 90+ loss season.

Steve, Bjguess & Bleeding Blue regarding Zimmerman: It just frustration boiling over among the ranks . Having nothing at third and no power hitter Zimmerman is their flavor of the month. September it was Fielder.

Bleedinblue, I need to clarify myself. I never meant to insinuate Ryan Zimmerman could be had for Sanchez and a weak prospect. I meant the package would have to be built around Sanchez at the major league level, as a pitcher with potential to be much more than a #3. This was Sanchez's first year given a starters job. Over the past 2 years he bounced between spot starts, bullpen, and the minors. The giants would have to include a high level prospect, probably one of the ones I mentioned before, to land Zimmerman.
The reason I think he could be had is just as Tim and the post speculated. He is in his arbitration years and will be pricey. The Nats can get a fine return for him and I believe the Giants have what it takes. It will probably take 3 players so Maybe a Sanchez, Velez, & Pucetas or Villalona deal would land him.

"Ouch. Grave insult there. I am a Dodger fan ;-)"

That was meant as a compliment to you, meaning that you actually know what you say before you spit it out. Unlike alot of these Giant fans who are just being the typical Homer...

It's funny; if you asked most Giant's fans if they would be happy with trading Cain for Fielder straight up a good portion would say yes. However, if you asked any baseball analyst, who understands the value of contracts, performance, and development they would regard that trade as an atrocious rip-off to the Giants. Get over Fielder! He is not worth Matt Cain, especially when you inherit his arb years and an inflated contract opposed to a team friendly affordable deal in Cain.

scribble, you need to look at it in context. Fielder's season this year is still very very good. with high walks and a lot of doubles. and we all know he's certainly not getting those doubles by legging them out :P

Matt Cain is a very nice pitcher but certainly not without potentiall fallacies. his walks are on the high side and for his age he's got a ton of innings on him.

relatively, it's always a higher risk for younger pitchers than fielders health wise. even accounting for Fielder's obvious problems health wise :P

It could go either way, but if i had my choice I'd do Cain for Fielder from the Giant's perspective. there's obviously always risk invovled in any trade.

I worry about Cain's very high PAP, his relatively high walk rate. and that he's been pitching in a relatively weak hitting division in a more pitcher's park.

with Fielders I don't really worry much for the next 7-8 years, though he is one of those guys that might fall off a cliff faster than expected in his early 30s.

i meant winn and ishikawa for uggla