Brewers Not Close To Looper Deal

Why do the Brewers need another back of rotation candidate?

They need a #2-3 type guy to go with Gallardo more than they need a BOR candidate IMO.

Where would Byrnes play in that already soild Sox outfield?

LF-Bay
CF-Ellsbury
RF-Drew
??-Byrnes

why is Miguel Montero so coveted, he sucks

Brewers go from Sabathia to Looper. Not Good.

Agreed talent for talent but the Sox are at least in a fortunate enough situation where there are several teams with a catcher to give, so for now they can stay low on their offers until someone gives them the best deal possible.

Going back and forth with Byrnes/Montero will give them some leverage as they won't have to give up much at all if they eat Byrnes entire contract so my guess is they are just using this scenerio to drive the price down with the Rangers.

I like Montero and I think he is capable of hitting .250 with 15-20HR's in the Sox lineup in full time duty, but....he would essentially cost $22 million (Byrnes contract) for the first 2 years.

At some point the Sox have to pick an option, but as of right now they are all in the same ballpark of cost/reward.

1. Trade a young cost controlled pitcher (which the Sox covet as it helps them avoid overspending on lengthy/risky free agent pitchers) for a top tier young catcher like Salty or Teargarden.

2. Eat Byrnes contract and give up little to get Montero. Cost is obvious $22 million for a 4th OF and a average catcher with upside

3. Resign Tek. If the Sox can resign Tek for substantially less then 2 years / 22 million (which is what it cost for option 2.) then I think they go this route.

Outside of Teixeira, the Sox have the need for a 4th OF and a catcher and I think they have 1 budget for both of these holes.

If Tek + Free Agent 4th OF (like Baldelli) would about $22 million for 2 years I think this is the move they make.

If the Sox do give up Buchholz I think they will bring back either Salty or Teargarden and their 4th OF from the Rangers in the same deal.

My best guess is the Sox end up with Saltalamachhia and Byrd for Buchholz; unless Tek comes down on his asking price.

Wiggington anod Balelli would complete the for the Reds.

Baldelli cud play Center, Wiggington or EE in left. (other at third)

We dont get the power hitter..but this could make the best, well rounded offense in years.

We could even trade EE..but i would like that team A LOT even if Votto-Bruce hit 3-4

i dont know why daniel bard wouldnt cut it for the rangers. he put up a great season, i know how the rangers are looking for a young starter, but he can be a very dominant reliever, and is rated just below bowden according to soxprospects.com.

"Where would Byrnes play in that already soild Sox outfield?"

The original trade idea was some kind of Lugo for Byrnes swap. Lugo would man second for the d-backs, Byrnes would be a 4th outfielder for the Sox. Since Byrnes can play all 3 outfield positions it makes a decent idea.

Byrnes/Montero for Lugo/Bard seems possible since the Sox won't give up Bowden for Montero. Bard would be considered a possibility to close or set up in 2 years. And Montero has great offensive potential, hopefully Tek will come back to train him as a defender. And if Montero doesn't work out, the Sox have some decent prospects in the system (despite being 3-4 years away).

good point melonis, didnt think of it that way

I know that rumors include crazy ideas too, but is there anyone who thinks the Red Sox are going to trade Clay Buccholz for anyone? The man had a poor sophomore season, but he's got #1 stuff and a major league no-hitter on his resume. Sorry to sounds like a petulant child, but he will not be traded - not for one of the Rangers catchers, not for anybody. I'm sure the Rangers are begging for him. It will never, ever happen.

"but is there anyone who thinks the Red Sox are going to trade Clay Buccholz for anyone?"

Theo has apparently flat out said Buchholz is off limits. I heard a rumor that some of the Sox vets got on Clay's back about his effort and work habits... so maybe we'll see the potential of Buc come through.

"Everywhere I've read says he has mid-rotation potential, with Jeff Suppan as a good comp."

Bowden has #2-#3 potential... I think he could make it in the top 50 prospects.

I THINK THE RANGERS SHOULD TRADE SALTAMACHHIA,BYRD AND KASEY KIKER FOR BUCHOLTZ AND BARD OR BOWDEN,BARD AND HAGADONE EITHER ONE OF THOSE TRADES WOULD BE OK FOR BOTH TEAMS THE SOX GET THERE CATCHER OF THE FUTURE THERE 4TH OUTFIELDER AND THE RANGERS GET PITCHING WHAT THEY NEED

I think its a pretty safe assumption that Michael Bowden will be in the top 50 prospects for 2009.

He was ranked 94th overall coming into last season by Baseball America. He lowered his ERA at AA by 2 full runs (4.28 to 2.33) and upped his K/BB (2.48 to 4.21), having an extremely successful year at AA for a 22 year old (turned 22 in September). He had a good level of success in AAA in limited time and had a successful start in the majors in September.

Between the success of his 2008 season and the graduation from prospect status for a good number of those who were ranked above Bowden, I doubt that there is any question that he'll be in the top 50.

So are we saying the Dbacks signed Felipe Lopez so they could make a bad trade for Julio Lugo to be their backup infielder?

If the Sox were to trade for Byrnes, it would be to get Montero in a salary dump situation.

Bard would be all that is needed and Lugo/his contract would not be accepted.

The Diamondbacks want to move Byrnes salary, not replace one bad contract with another and lose a decent young catcher in the process.

I am just waiting for the Yanks to chuck boatloads of cash Mark Teixeira's way...

Why would Texas accept bowden? They have a system full of pitchers with more upside than bowden. They hold all the cards in this game. If they don't get buccholz then they can wait til next offseason to trade a catcher, when its very possible that teagarden or salty would net more than buchholz.

If patience is the game, the Rangers hold the winning hand. If Tek is the Red Sox ace in the hole, and it probably is, it remains a trump only so long as Jason shows he's still a viable catcher. As has been noted, Texas should have no sense of urgency. Let this thing play out. If the Red Sox come begging, make the deal. If they don't, wait till next year.

"Why would Texas accept bowden? They have a system full of pitchers with more upside than bowden. They hold all the cards in this game. If they don't get buccholz then they can wait til next offseason to trade a catcher, when its very possible that teagarden or salty would net more than buchholz."

Because the majority of the arms in their farm system are far away from the bigs. Neftali Feliz, Michael Main, Derek Holland, etc. are all aways away.

Guys who are closer to MLB-ready are more likely to reach their ceilings. Bowden is a surer bet to be a solid pitcher than Feliz, although Feliz has more upside than Bowden.

Although I'd still hold off for Bowden + Bard. Or Salty for Buchholz.

I don't trade Teagarden, period.

Maybe that is what the Rangers will do with the Sox. F'em. But, maybe the Sox look at it in another light. They just made it to game 7 of the ALCS with my grandmother playing catcher, while the Rangers haven't sniffed the playoffs in YEARS.

The Rangers don't need 3 catchers, while any team in baseball can use 5+ starting pitchers. The Red Sox don't need to trade a guy they project to be a solid middle of the rotation guy. Meanwhile, the Rangers will either delegate one of their prized catching prospects to DH (Ramirez) and one to backup, because there is no way Salty's or Teagarden's bats can justify sitting Davis. So either the Rangers send 1 or more guys down to the minors, or delegate them to part-time play, which may or may not have a great impact on their future value.

MLB.com doesn't have any of the Red Sox pitchers listed among its Top 50 Prospects for 2009:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/

That being said, I think a package of Bowden, Bard and a middle level prospect is fair in exchange for Saltalamacchia.

So, why isn't a deal happening? The problem, as I see it, is that both the Red Sox and the Rangers have stocked minor league systems. It makes it that much harder to do a 3 for 1 deal when someoone will end up having to cut 2 decent players off their 40 man roster to accomodate the new guys. When your farm system is rich, quantity is no longer the issue - it's quality that now matters. This is why the Rangers are inclined towards a 1 for 1 deal of Salty for Buchholz.

If the Rangers and Red Sox want to get a deal done, they may well have to bring a third team into the mix. Perhaps the Giants send Jonathan Sanchez to the Rangers, the Rangers send Salty to the Red Sox, and the Red Sox send Lowell, Bowden and cash to the Giants and Bard to the Rangers. It's complicated, but it just might work.

"Further away than Bowden? Maybe, but not by very much. "

Bowden would probably be in the Rangers rotation as it stands and in a majority of teams rotations already as well. Boston has a top rotation and he would be in it if it was not stocked so well. Last season if it was not so deep (Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Wake,Colon, Byrd, Masterson, Bucholz at any given point) there was no way he was getting into that 5 man rotation period, on a team with a much weaker roation and ERA of 5.00+ (Texas) it would have been easy to crack it, but Boston sent him down after his 1 good emergency start vs. Texas.

Just because a good pitcher is at AAA, does not mean he would not be starting, or even a 3-4 guy on another team already.

Doubt seriously Texas would get Bowden + Bard for either Salty or Teagarden either. Bard should make late next season also, they are taking it easy with him. Relievers that can hit 100mph+ are very rare.

Byrnes/Montero for Lugo/Bard seems possible since the Sox won't give up Bowden for Montero. Bard would be considered a possibility to close or set up in 2 years. And Montero has great offensive potential, hopefully Tek will come back to train him as a defender. And if Montero doesn't work out, the Sox have some decent prospects in the system (despite being 3-4 years away).

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | December 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM

sox fans never see it from anyside besides their own. why the hell would the d backs want lugo when we just got felipe lopez? It'd nice to get rid of byrnesy but it will be hard to and get anything good back in return.

i'd give byrnes and montero in return for one of boston's three best pitching prospects.

montero is an great prospect and will bloom into a successful catcher if you just give him consistent playing time. he batted like .290 throughout the minors and was even made like the AP all minor league team or something like that.