Phillies Sign Raul Ibanez

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

YES! That means he will NOT be a Cub.

I was hoping the braves would make a run at raul, but i guess they didnt. Congrats phillies on a good pickup.

I've expressed my vehement opposition to the Phillies signing Ibanez on other posts. And I'm still vehemently opposed from a strategical standpoint.

Let's just say: Mets fans be glad that you guys kept Schoeweneiss. A guy who holds lefties to a .594 OPS is even more valuable in the NL East now, cause it weakens all three of the Phillies' best hitters. Hopefully Manuel doesn't bat Utley-Howard-Ibanez 3-4-5 in the order. That could get ugly in later innings.

Oh and let's not get started on the draft pick. It's a first rounder. Something they wouldn't be giving up if they signed

And, not offering arbitration to Burrell? Ridiculously stupid. It's understandable if you're the DBacks and have an OF surplus, but when the Phillies were in the market for a corner OF anyways, a 1 year deal to Pat doesn't hurt anybody. Especially when he's in the later stages of his prime, and Raul is well out of it.

If Raul Ibanez can even get to a simple flyball that isn't hit right at him at age 40, I'll be amazed.

Yes, Raul Ibanez is a GREAT clubhouse presence, and an absolute class act. But, those aren't reasons for throwing large amounts of money at marginal players.

he's a very good/under-rated hitter but he's gonna make Pat Burrell look like Willie Mays in the field....probably teh worst fielding OF in baseball and teh worst among the very bad fielding free agent class of Dunn, Manny, Burrell & Abreu...

3 years for a 36 year old Ibanez but they wouldn't give 32 year old Burrell 3 years.

What the hell??!?

i thought the phils were trying to get more right handed? whatever, glad he's not a cub...

Utley, Howard and Ibanez are going to see a steady diet of LHP when the starter is out of the game. I thought the goal was to acquire a good RH bat to put between Utley & Howard.

i will tell you right now uncle charlie isnt going to have ibanez batting 5th that will be Werth. ibanez and burrell are not simliar offensively. ibanez had more rbi' and better average by about 40 points and about 5 less home runs. i am phils fan i am not excited about the signing but there was nothing else out there for them to go after really. solid signing for the phils.

"The Phils will throw 30 million at older outfielder...but dimes at pitching...and wastes 9 million a year on adam eaton...."

That was Gillick who signed Eaton. This is Amaro. Different GMs.

Amaro's pitching moves are yet to be seen, but he needs to bring in another arm to supplement Hamels-Myers-Blanton-Happ.

and yet they're the world champs.
kinda funny how that works out?
poor moves, yet it all works out...

"and yet they're the world champs.
kinda funny how that works out?
poor moves, yet it all works out..."

Really, REALLY good scouting department, led by Mike Arbuckle. Utley, Howard, Burrell, Hamels, Victorino, Rollins, are/were all home-grown. That's how they got to a championship. Great scouting.

They don't have to have a strong presence in the free agent market.

Ehh

I agree with basically everything melonis said above. They are valid points. Especially the draft picks, not offering arb to Burrell/Moyer was ridiculous

However, I will say that a lot of contending teams were in on this guy and not Burrell, so maybe they all know something we don't

And as far as the lefty-lefty point, Utley is pretty much even against lefties and righties at this point.

Howard is a concern now after taking a big step back last year (although in Sept he was unbelievable against lefties), and Ibanez, while very good against lefties last year, may have had a fluke season

peterherman, Burrell and Ibanez and perennially at the bottom of +/- for LF. So while Ibanez may be marginally better, I think both are well below average in the field

Both appear to have very good and useful throwing arms, however

Ibanez is a solid and consistent ballplayer. If you look at his numbers for the past 7 or 8 years, he is always around .290 BA with a .350 OBP. That said, he is definitely getting up there in age, but I wonder if that will be cancelled out by playing in CBP instead of Safeco??

I am also skeptical of Jayson Werth's ability to "protect" Howard as the right-handed bat behind him. Werth seems to take some brutal hacks at times, and it might be too much pressure for him at this point.

It would have been real nice to get Mark DeRosa to play LF and fill-in on the IF occasionally, but that won't be happening now.

why does everyone think that Burrell is a better hitting than Ibanez looking at stats from the past years it appears that Ibanez is better. i will take less hoem runs with a better average and more Rbi's.

Getting sick of all the idiots on here who don't know anything and try to cover it up by being negative towards any move the Phils make. If the Phils DID offer Burrell arbitration, you'd be complaining they did that. Do your homework. Ibanez is a better fielder than Burrell and has more RBIs over the last three years than Manny Ramirez. PS - Mets fans love this time of year, because you can't choke away a division lead during the offseason...

Ron---

1. Think of how lineups are structured. Generally, the #3 and #4 guys will get RBIs. Raul generally hit 3rd, as he was the Mariners' best hitter; Burrell almost always hit 5th, after Utley and Howard had their chances to clean up the bases.

2. What is the downside to offering Burrell arbitration. If he accepts, you get Pat on a 1 year deal at a slightly higher base salary than 10MM/yr. Burrell's still in his prime years, there's little-no reason to believe that Burrell will suddenly fall off a cliff. There is much, MUCH less risk in Burrell accepting arbitration than there is in signing a 37!!! year old guy to a 3 year deal.

3. Ibanez is MARGINALLY a better fielder. Chone Smith projections have Ibanez at -13 in LF, Burrell at -14. Very, VERY marginal defensive upgrade at best.

4. Taking low shots at the Mets is a great way to insult your intelligence.

I liked Ibanez for the Mets on the provision that it was a lower-risk, two-year deal. I just feel that a third year for Ibanez is taking a big chance, only because he is going to get even worse in the field and I don't think his bat will keep those numbers up at age 39. With no DH spot available in the NL, it makes his contract a lot more risky because you don't have that option if he declines.

So good signing for now, but we'll see in the third year how it works out.

if you neutralize their stats to average teams (715 runs scored per team) you have ibanez with an .803 ops and burrell at .848, about the clutch thing with Ibanez (while I do not believe your abilities can go up in clutch situations) Ibanez and Burrell are very close OPS wise with RISP and two out and in close game situations, with Pat getting about a 10 point lead in that category. Personally I would rather have Burrell, but I definitely see how some see Ibanez as being the more traditionally appealing player with his avg being around 50 points better.

Small sample size, he certainly does not hit lefties better than righties.

As an Angels fan, I'm glad that Ibanez was signed.

As a Phillies transplant, Ibanez isn't too bad of a signing defensively, but I would rather have Burrell as he is 4 years younger and better offensively. I think I would've been happier with Burrell or an Adam Dunn signing as it wouldn't have cost draft picks. In the end, won't have to worry about late defensive sub replacements.

Aduncaroo--

...not in this market, no.

Burrell
Abreu
Bradley
Dunn
Giambi

Angels
Rays
Braves
Mets
Cubs

There isn't enough competition/demand in the market right now for Burrell to get 15MM.

Food for thought - here is Ibanez stats vs LHP over the last three years .269/.325/.410 (covering 542 at bats).

tbone88 brings up an interesting name - Adam Dunn. He has hit 40+ HR for five years now, and over 100 RBIS every year but one over the same period. Yet every GM avoids him like the plague. The mystery is: why?

(sigh).....see what i mean?

Amen MattyMets

to say burrell is a better hitter is absolutely laughable! this is a steal for the phils. burrell hits what, 40-50 pts lower than ibanez? and they only sacrifice 5-10 home runs? plus Raul drives in more runs, strikes out less and is far less prone to prolonged slumps like Pat. I;m a huge phils and burrell fan but this is absolutely an upgrade at a price cheaper than burrell

Ron: If you think I'm merely a phillies "fan," or just a "phillies fan" and not a pure baseball fan, you're wrong.

I've watched industrial sized boatloads of awful Phillies baseball since the time I was knee-high. I've been extremely adamant against Amaro becoming the GM ever since Gillick said he'd be retiring after this past year. I've got every right to be pissed about this signing.

Enjoy some "valid criticism," that's posted below, as I've picked up all the hair that used to be in my head up from the floor and decided to type some out after putting the hair in a nice pile in my desk drawer.

Two things people need to take into consideration when comparing RBI between these two guys is Burrell was hitting behind Howard- the guy with 431 RBI in the last three years- for a large amount of games, and Burrell was taken out in the later stages of the game for defensive reasons.

That Ibanez, with more opportunities, and no Ryan Howard in front of him, has more RBI than Burrell is obvious.

My point, which I forgot to tag on, is the RBI argument really isn't that valid.

"And who knows, maybe the market on Lowe comes back down somewhat if Yanks sign Burnett"

Braves. Whichever one the Yanks don't get will get a very sweet bid from the Braves, who have plenty of cash to spend.

Smoltz Fan - waht about hte fact that he hits almost 50 pts higher than burrell and strikes out less

I see it like this Phils Swiss

Rollins S
Utley L
Howard L
Werth R
Ibanez L
Victorino S
Jenkins L
Feliz R
Ruiz R

"Smoltz Fan - waht about hte fact that he hits almost 50 pts higher than burrell and strikes out less"

BA= flawed.
Look at OPS. Burrell's OPS is a whole 30 points higher than Raul's.

And, you have to match team needs and skill sets.

Pat "The Statue" Burrell and Raul "Lawn Dart" Ibanez are both bad defenders. Tie.

Not every good player fits every team/lineup. Example: Jose Reyes wouldn't be a fit on the Phillies because they have Rollins. Reyes is a damn good player though.

Raul's inability to hit lefties hampers lineup flexibility and makes the big bats susceptible to the LOOGY. Of course, Manual will probably change the lineup and break up Utley-Howard-Ibanez, but that's still all three of your best hitters being LH batters. Raul's skill set does not fit the team's needs.

melonis - spare me all the lingo aka loogy and do some research, ibanez hit 305 vs leftie last year and 296 vs rightyies..so your "inability to hit lefties" comment should have made me stop right there, but then you said that reyes wuolndt be a good fit for the phillies, players like reyes are good fits ANYWHERE....sotp wiht all the stats and teh "fitting the team needs" all teams will take a great bat, ibanez is a better bat than burrell

i mean besides, who needs a guy who has averaged 290 26 and 110 in the past 3 yeras, i guess guys like that dont fit

very stupid move for the phils... adding another freakin left hitter in the line up.. if they go against a right pitcher you got almost everyone hitting from the left side considering

Jimmy Rollins and Shane Victorino who are switch hitters...

And now you got 3 powerful lefties in your line up Utley, Howard And Ibanez.

I think they were better of re-signing Burell, plus he younger than Ibanez, and they got to sign him to a three year deal wow~ bad move, i feel bad for shane victorino hes going to have to cover some of ibanez ground since he sucks at fielding

Ibanez is NOT an Angel. YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!

Like the guy but not in Anaheim.

This is a BAD move by Philly.

Is their plan to actually go Utley-Howard-Ibanez 3-4-5? Because then the lineup would be tailor-made for LOOGY's.

I'd expect the Phillies to go into 2009 with this order:

SS Rollins
CF Victorino
2B Utley
1B Howard
RF Werth
LF Ibanez
3B Feliz
C Ruiz

I just don't understand why they went after a lefty though, unless Ibanez's 3/30 price tag is less than other similar players, which I doubt.

also, another reason he fits is he makes contact more than burrell....again, burrell was hands down my favorite player on the phils however his strikeouts, pop ups etc would kill rallies.. now they havea guy who will make contact and hopefully move runners over instead of striking out

Now that they made this signing and keep talking about signing Werth to an extension, I wonder if they are planning to use Mayberry Jr. in part of a package for Garret Atkins. Having a solid RH bat to put in between Utley and Howard would make this signing a little less detrimental to the lineup when a LH pitcher is on the mound. Oh and the Phillies need to wise up and let Marson be their starting catcher next year. Non-tender that bum Ruiz.

NOOOOOO! burrell came up threw our farm system and with out him i can promise you we wouldnt have won the World Series. so lets sign an older guy for the same deal we could of got Burrell for this is rediculous im very disappointed in the phillies organization

What - the Cubs cooled due to defensive concerns but are still talking to Bradley? That makes absolutely zero sense.

TR2008, the single most important offensive stat is OBP, hands down. And it's nothing new. Which explains why someone that hits .250 who takes a walk could possibly be a better offensive value than another who hits .290 with few walks. That should be difficult to comprehend.

And, a sidenote - Ibanez hit lefties better for average last year than righties - fwiw. .305 vs. .288. That is an outlier in his career - but intersting to note. His HR/AB was similar (3.5% vs. lhp and 3.6 vs. rhp).

Don't jump off a bridge yet. Though, the draft picks hurt given our system.

"

NOOOOOO! burrell came up threw our farm system and with out him i can promise you we wouldnt have won the World Series. so lets sign an older guy for the same deal we could of got Burrell for this is rediculous im very disappointed in the phillies organization

Posted by: Mike Moss | December 12, 2008 at 12:17 PM
"

Burrell was not going to sign for 3/30, end of story. While it's great that he won the World Series with the Phils, nobody in the front office can afford to fall in love with the players.

smoltz - i get your point but thats not the reason ibanez hits 50 pts higher than burrell every eyar...we'll have to wait and see, ibanez is a underappreicated player in this league playing in KC and SEA...everyone will come aruond and enjoy having someone who moves runners and drives in runs instead of striking out every other at bat

Let's get a couple things straight about Ibanez and Burrell.
Ibanez is a BETTER hitter than Pat, will be no worse defensively(since we already had to sub Pat in the 7th anyways). Pat wasn't going to take a paycut(he made about 14m last year). Does anyone really think that Burrell is worth 12-15 million more than Ibanez over the next 3 years? Yes, The Phils are lefthanded heavy right now but I think they will get a righthanded bat during the year.(probably at 3rd base ie Atkins or someone along thoise lines)

"Let's get a couple things straight about Ibanez and Burrell.
Ibanez is a BETTER hitter than Pat, will be no worse defensively(since we already had to sub Pat in the 7th anyways). Pat wasn't going to take a paycut(he made about 14m last year). Does anyone really think that Burrell is worth 12-15 million more than Ibanez over the next 3 years? Yes, The Phils are lefthanded heavy right now but I think they will get a righthanded bat during the year.(probably at 3rd base ie Atkins or someone along thoise lines)"

I think Pat's going to have to take a paycut. It's obvious that the market for corner outfielders just isn't out there right now. I see Burrell signing at a 3/33 deal somewhere in the AL.

I honestly don't think money was the reason the Phillies didn't resign him. It's been obvious for over two years that they wanted to part ways with Burrell. They tried to trade him to the O's and several other teams only to be blocked by Burrell's no-trade. I don't know if they are worried about him breaking down or what but there was no way he was coming back to Philly.

"Ibanez is a BETTER hitter than Pat,"

Prove this

"Ibanez is a BETTER hitter than Pat,"

Prove this

Burrell for all his power goes through ridiculous streaks where he's non existent. If you watch the Phils consistently its frustrating as hell to watch rollins or utley to get on to start an inning and then with one out have howard strike out and then have Burrell do nothing.

I said it before:

Ibanez+Lowe+Cruz is better than

Burrell and Lowe

and feel free to substitute Moyer in there for Lowe and it still works.

Spend money wisely when you don't have gobs and gobs of it non yankee fans.

Oh and can everyone PLEASE stop with the Utley will be out for how long of even be back. Utley's already rehabbing and he's obsessed about it. His plan is to be back just after the start. Get him some extended spring training and bring him back May 1st. Our April schedule is fairly easy so no reason to rush him. Charlie Manual was on MLB Home Plate today and said he's in rehab every day and Charlie will see him on Monday to get a progress update.