Ramon Hernandez Traded For Ryan Freel

Could it be Julio Lugo?

and doesnt the O's need a SS?

I don't think they'd get Lugo to be a utility guy. I agree with Ryan Freel. Which is good cause I like him. He has Grit!

let it be freel!

i think the reds would throw IN a prospect if they took A-Gon from us as well.

hah, was just posting about this in another section.

Personally I still like Hernandez as part of the 3 team Peavy deal, as the Padres are said to be looking for a Veteran catcher as well.

Perhaps Cubs send Marquis/Cedeno for Hernandez.

then move Hernandez/$$/Vitters and whomever else they must for Peavy.

Padres end up with a Veteran catcher not costing more then Peavy (after salary is eaten by the Cubs) and a slew of prospects.

O's end up with same payroll but get a decent young utility IF and an arm that can toss a few innings

Cubs get their man.

Although I admit the Freel thing makes the most sense and is a heck of a lot easier.

I don't forsee the Red Sox/O's trading with each other though although that would be a solid swap for them.

Based on the article and salaries, it looks like Wiggington would give the Os the most flexibility. Freel would give the Os immediate coverage at 2B if 2B Roberts is dealt. What are their gloves like?

The salary dump part is a little imbalanced but the Os might have to give some cash to even it out.

Red Sox might like that he hit .327/ .400/ .557 vs NY or .326/ .354/ .465 vs TB.

Gmblng

what are you doing at short/3rd?

if you want a signing of furcal on top, leaves the only question at 3rd. Could be filled for under 5, otherwise play Rosales/Kepp. Not a terrible hole to have. Solid rotation. Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto, Sanchez

Owings in long relief as a go to pinch hitter

XD23 - Good point. Maybe I just don't want to see him at OPACY any more. Ever.

METZFAN22 I dont think that would work for the either team

It's almost like both these teams are doing this deal moreso because they don't want the player they are trading, than because they want the player they are trading for.

Hernandez is expensive and has had two poor years in a row, while at this point Freel doesn't appear to be much more than a utility guy that can get on base and use his speed once in a while.

I would say that deal is better for Baltimore though, unless they are kicking in money, because they already practically have a ready replacement in Matt Wieters, and Freel could be a potentially useful bench guy for them.

...if they're gonna trade for an outfielder make it a young guy under team control for years to come and with tons of potential such as Delmon Young

While the Sky's the Limit for Bailey I think that Young has demonstrated more than Bailey has so far. That's probably a place to start, but it would probably require more than just Bailey.

I think this move is a prelude to the Dye-Bailey move.

Scribble,
I can only speak for the Os but, I think the reason why the Os might want to shed payroll with Ramon has to do with where that salary sits. It sits in the C spot. That happens to be the same position their super-prospect, Wieters, plays. Shedding 7.5M at catcher opens up salary to sign a pitcher, and, prepares for a more flexible player to hold that slot until Matt Wieters arrives. At the same time, the critical thing about Freel to keep an eye on is that he also plays 2B. Having him on the roster also opens up the possibility to trade Roberts. This deal would do multiple things for the team. It would be a great move.

Apparently Walt Jocketty hates rumors and likes to shoot down anything floating around. What a killjoy.

If Omar Minaya were to get in on this, I suppose the idea would be to swap Luis Castillo for Ramon Hernandez, move Brian Schneider to the Red Sox for prospects and sign Orlando Hudson.

The problem is, Luis Castillo is essentially at the level of a replacement player-- second basemen with questionable range who slug .305 are not exactly tradeable commodities. I don't think anyone's taking Castillo off of Omar's hands any time soon (or ever).

Jocketty slyly raised his eyebrows? Hot damn, stop the presses!

The biggest reason to move Ramon is 9M reasons that is blocking the path to a kid named Wieters. Simple as that.

The bigger question is how quick is Wieters up when Ramon leaves? Could he possibly break camp with Baltimore?

I call shenanigans on the Brewers inquiring on Ramon. The article says the Crew view him as an upgrade over Kendall.

First Kendall played 151 games at catcher last year. Plus Melvin and Yost (before he got fired) loved the way Kendall called the games for our young pitching crew. Last, Kendall is cheaper.

Why a small market team like the Crew would want to add a $9M backup catcher is beyond me.

Ctown - your disdain for the Reds is well documented at this point. Maybe go for a different club?

Quick!!! Andy MacPhail!!! Make this deal before the reds realize ramon isnt worth more than peanuts!!!

also, i gotta agree with exitfare. i love dempsey as a player but i despise him as a commentator and when he called the o's-jays games last year, it was painful...

For those Orioles fans lambasting Ramon, the Reds catching at the end of last year consisted of Javy Valentin and Ryan Hanigan. Reds needed someone, Os wanted to get rid of Ramon bad, Reds wanted to get rid of Freel bad, so it works.

I don't understand why the Reds/Reds fans want Freel gone so bad. His defense is certainly spastic and sometimes very bad. Too many times we've had to see him dive fast first and completely miss the ball. But his offense has been pretty good when healthy.I would've/would like to see him as a utility or in a platoon.

I just don't see Hernandez as an upgrade to Ryan Hanigan offensively. Also find it odd considering pretty much all the young pitchers like throwing to Hanigan and even Bronson has developed a good connection with Hanigan after Ross was let go.

"Hey O's fans, why the hatred for Hernandez? Is he a jerk? Or is it just the salary and declining performance?"

He was unbelievably lazy behind the plate last year. There were quite a few PBs and WPs that could have been prevented if he had made an effort.

Wieters will start the year in AAA, but he'll be up by June at the latest.

I heard an O's fan talk about Hernandez...maybe some others can agree or disagree...

The O's pitching staff was young and inexpereienced, leading to bigger leads and good jumps, so Hernandez's throwing out % is skewed....and the same applies for the PB/WP on defense....

I think if he tries he can have a good year for the Reds

Hahahahahaha how did Andy get 3 players for Ramon Hernandez. So awesome.

Sweet. The Matt Wieters era in Camden Yards has officially begun.

Yet another reason why I pity Pirate fans.

It is sort of nuts how Andy MacPhail has managed to squeeze extra guys in every deal for the Os.

how does a guy like freel wear out his welcome in cincy?...is this rosenthal splurging more eronious reports?...as an o's fan, i'm happy with freel, he plays a style of ball that trembley and the fans appreciate.

i am floored that macphail was able to get three (three!) players for ramon.

anybody know who the prospects are?

How in the world did Freel wear out his welcome you moronic wanna be reds fan. How do you stay quiet when your stupid excuse for a manager plays Corey Patterson everyday? Freel would have been worth more if Dusty would have played him more. This guy gave his body to the game, hustled like Rose. What are we getting in return...another Paul Bako with a slightly better arm..but not much of a hitter. I sure do like picking up 9 million dollar back up catchers. This is why the Reds lose year after year. I support Jocketty but this one will come back to haunt him.

Depending on who the other two prospects are, I don't mind this deal. Though a defensively minded catcher Hernandez is not. Anyone got an update on Hernandez' WARP?

Freel, like King Griffey Junior, wore out his welcome because of the size of his salary and his inability to stay healthy, on the field and productive.

By his own admission, Freel has had at 10 concussions in his lifetime. So, since concussions are easier to get and more severe each time you sustain one, all it takes is just one more and his baseball career is over.

With the way Freel plays with reckless abandon, it isn't hard to see how this could very easily happen.

Robert - Freel played 123 games the past two seasons. It has to do with his reckless play earning him the following stints on the DL:

November 06, 2008 Removed from 60-day DL
July 31, 2008 Transferred to 60-day DL
June 04, 2008 Placed on 15-day DL (Hamstring surgery, right knee)
September 26, 2007 Transferred to 60-day DL
August 07, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Torn cartilage, right knee)
July 03, 2007 Recalled from minors rehab
July 03, 2007 Removed from 15-day DL
June 24, 2007 Sent to minors for rehabilitation
May 29, 2007 Placed on 15-day DL (Head/neck contusions)

I feel a little better about now that you talked me out of the clock tower, but I don't think Hernandez is remotely the catcher we need with the pitching we are trying to develop. We keep running guys in there to catch every year and our pitchers will all end up being a fraction of what they could have been. My point is that we could have the next aces in volquez and cueto but we may never find out because in Cincy they always look for stop gaps and are happy about fielding mediocre players in role playing positions. This will never get us to the playoffs.

Robert,

As a Reds fan I wasn't quiet. I didn't like it that Baker was hired and said so from teh very beginning. I wanted Pete M to come back as Reds Manager.

Over the last 20 years, the only time the Reds have been successful is when they have had hard ass, disciplinarians as Manager. Guys like Lou Piniella, Davey Johnson, Jack McKeon and Pete M. Guys who had one set of rules for ALL players and who didn't take it lightly when a player loafed. Guys who wanted good, fundamental baseball to be palyed and who would have practices on off days if he saw that that wasn't happening.

With Ray Knight, Bob Boone, Dave Miley, Jerry Narron and now, Toothpick Baker, the Reds have had player's Managers. Guys who do not have one set of rules for everyone, who do not get on star players for loafing and who do not have extra practices to amke sure that the fundamentals are executed correctly.

I didn't like it when Baker came in and said that the Reds NEEDED another Center Fielder even though they already had Freel and Hopper on the team and under contract with Bruce watiing in the Minors.

I didn't sit quietly when Toothpick continued to bat Corey (Automatic Out) Pattersuck in the lead off position, KGJ in the number three hole ("out of respect") and Joey Votto in the number seven spot.

I was saying that somebody else should be batting lead off, Votto should be batting in the number three spot with KGJ moved down in the order and Pattersuck batting at least seventh.

I was also saying that David Ross should NOT have been cut and that Paul Bako should have.

Finally, I kept asking WHY Bako was being allowed to catch when it was September, the Reds were 20 Games out of first place and Hanigan was up and NEEDED to be played as much as possible to see if he really WAS capable of being the starting Catcher in 2009.

Wow.

Ramon is a solid bat. I would say his defensive skills are adequate but he's niether got a gun nor a defensive specialist. His biggest contribution is gamecalling and power (which never got on track last season due to health).

But to get a player we can use, free up a spot for Wieters, and squeeze in two C prospects is a great return on what might have been a simple salary dump. I'm impressed with MacPhail for Baltimore. So far his best moves have been the trades. Not a stinker in the bunch so far.

If Freel is your everday second baseman you are in for one rude awakening.

Seems like a lot for Ramon, but I guess "slightly below average" hitting is "good" for a catcher. Anyone know how he is defensively?

Where do these prospects rat e with BA ?

both waring and turner are outside the reds top 20 prospects according to john sickels. turner could be a ok utility guy/ backup 2nd baseman. waring plays 3rd . defense is ok and he has some power but his k/bb ratio is HORRIBLE

Turner is a second baseman who has hit at every level and plays average defense while Waring is a power hitting third baseman with suspect defense...overall decent prospects. Waring got a lot of praise his first year in the minors

both were expendable from the reds standpoints with phillips at 2nd for awhile. and the reds have ee , frazier , soto , francisco who all have higher ceilings than waring which will be fighting for the 3rd base spot in the next year or 2

"I wonder if the Freel acquisition could be the precursor to a Roberts trade? "

If Freel were to see playing time aside from util at all, it would be at 3rd or a tryout at ss. No way we would downgrade from brob to freel at 2nd. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of freel, but not in place of roberts

Well, based on Reds fans reports here, maybe we don't think of Freel as a possible replacement to Roberts. Though this fits in line with a Twins-like strategy of finding versatile athletic hungry type of players to fill out the bench. The Twins always seem to have 4 Ryan Freel types on their bench in any given year. The Orioles bench has been a little lame in recent years. What we lacked last season was a decent righty to spell Luke Scott in LF, and, suitable pinch-hitters late in a game.

"Wow. These are solid C+ guys. Waring has legit power at 3B. He hit 20+ the last few seasons and currently is 22 yrs old. Fringy defense. Last year he played well at AAA. In 2008 he was rated in the Reds Top 20 at around 12-15. Turner might have a little more upside but is really just a C+ prospect too. The knock on both might be their strikeout totals. But, to get 2 actual prospects (i.e. not 25-27 yr old organizational players) who might contribute in some form in what could have been (should have been) a throw away trade is very interesting. If I were a Reds fan, I'd be glad to get rid of Freel but I would be slightly upset to give up some positional depth."

I'm surprised that the Orioles actually managed to trade Hernandez and land value in return.

Not only did they reduce payroll by replacing Hernandez' $9M with Freel's $4M, but they also landed a couple of reasonably solid prospects who actually could become good players one day.

I think this is a great deal for MacPhail. Ya know, sometimes he takes forever to make moves, but like the Bedard move I think he's done a very nice job here.

"If Freel is your everday second baseman you are in for one rude awakening."

The object of rebuilding is to let your youth develop, and collect prospects. Now that the Orioles are doing it right, the next step is to trade Roberts. The O's aren't going to contend in that division next year. Let Tillman, Matsuz, Arrietta, et all. develop and collect prospects by trading Roberts for a nice haul.

It's perfectly fine for Freel to start at 2B for a rebuilding team.