Rosenthal's Latest: Dunn, Burrell, Manny

sheets kind of left an open wound with the dodgers didnt he? that would be embarrassing to accept for everyone involved.

I like ken, but seriously, sometimes he says the flat out dumbest stuff, like manny caused all that trouble to take a one year offer. moron.

i HOPE manny takes a one year deal, falls down and knocks his two front teeth out

Tek probably will accept. Dunn - make it happen Cash! YanksFanSince78 - with Damon and Matsui coming off the books next year, Gardner far from proven, and Nady a ?, Dunn makes perfect sense for 2010 and beyond. Plus, who's going to protect A-Hole? 37 y/o Posada?

UtleyFan - and probably would've shyed away because of the draft pick compensation! Same reason Yanks didn't offer Abreu, though I think Pettite should have been offered.

I think the Dodgers would be pretty happy if manny accepted arbitration so they would hardly hold him to their agreement. Although I would not hold my breath for manny to accept arbitration anyway.

UtleyFan,

I think the assumption was that Burrell who made $14 million this year would've gotten a bump to say $16 million or so and that it was better to do a Rivera or Baldelli platoon with Jenkins or Dobbs in LF for $5 million per and go get a Punto for say $5 million and save the other $6 million for arbitration raises.

Although after all that, I think they should have kept Burrell.

"i HOPE manny takes a one year deal, falls down and knocks his two front teeth out"

lol

"UtleyFan,

I think the assumption was that Burrell who made $14 million this year would've gotten a bump to say $16 million or so and that it was better to do a Rivera or Baldelli platoon with Jenkins or Dobbs in LF for $5 million per and go get a Punto for say $5 million and save the other $6 million for arbitration raises.

Although after all that, I think they should have kept Burrell."

Yeah, while I would like the idea of a Baldelli/Dobbs platoon, I do think we still lose some production there. Plus there's no guarantee that the Phils will even be able to land Baldelli if the Red Sox are truly interested. I think Rivera would be a major downgrade personally.

Burrell probably won't be any more of a liability in LF than he was last year. Plus, even if you overpay him for one season it's better than committing to someone for multiple seasons. Burrell for one or two more years would be a nice bridge to Taylor, Brown, or Mayberry.

Don't be surprised if the Giants end up signing Renteria (2/$18 million) and Burrell (2/$22 million for 1B) before the end of the Winter Meetings next week.

Yamks78 - IMO counting on Matsui to be healthy all year and DHing is just as foolish as thinking Hughes and IPK could hold down rotation spots all year, and Omar thinking Pedro, El Duque, Alou and Castillo would stay healthy. What about Matsui the last 2/3 years makes you think he'll play 125-150 games in '09?

Burrell probably won't be any more of a liability in LF than he was last year. Plus, even if you overpay him for one season it's better than committing to someone for multiple seasons. Burrell for one or two more years would be a nice bridge to Taylor, Brown, or Mayberry.

Agreed which is why its so puzzling to me. If and its a big IF, Taylor rakes in Reading like he did in Lakewood and Clearwater I think you could consider him sometime in 2010, probably later in 2010. I'd say he's closer than Brown but it'll be great to see them at CBP in 2012 together. The two of them are the reason why I think you see them try to sign Werth for a 3 year deal and no longer than that if they go that route.

maximum wrote:

Actually, I'd have Matsui coming off then bench, with Damon and Dunn LF/DH. And his ratings put Dunn about avg in the field. Assists is a bad measuring stick, if guys don't run on you you can't throw them out. I'm not saying people are afraid of Dunn's arm and didn't run on him bc of it, just a general statement. Like W's for a pitcher IMO.

____________________

Ok but at the end of the day 8 errors are 8 errors. And a total of 31 errors while playing the OF in the last 4 years implicates he's playing with oven mits out there in LF.

Why? Just because he makes $13m? I don't buy into the "salary determines playing-time" theroy, no pun intended.

Manny accepting arbitration after the stink he put up about any team exercising his club option... makes no sense therefore it's classic Manny.

Other than, maybe the market isn't as great as Boras told him it would be. I reallly doubt anyone is going to offer him three years let alone the 5 Boras wants!

AA,

agreed Burrell would look good behind Loney.

I don't know if Manny would get that mega contract from anyone else except the Dodgers. No one needs Manny like the Blue Crew does.

I like the idea of the Reds adding Weather a vet. RHP and Rhoads a vet. LHP to the bullpen. The Reds have a fairly young bullpen with some up and comers, so I think they would be a good presence in the 'pen...

"Assists is a bad measuring stick, if guys don't run on you you can't throw them out...Like W's for a pitcher IMO."

More like interceptions for a defensive back.

The silence in the Manny market is not a good sign for him. Who knows what could happen.

"Ankiel for Kennedy, + ?"

The Yankees would have to include another pretty nice piece for that deal to work out.

If the Braves are set on a RH bat, unless they're going to make another deal, that pretty much leaves Manny and Burrell. And I don't think they're after Manny.

Dunn would make sense in NY with the short porch in new Yankee stadium. The power he has to RF/CF would be 40+ each and every year and really do not see why it's so far out of the question. The posts above comparing him to Giambi are comparing him to 1 year, his contract year where he finally got off his fat and HGH butt and played for the 1st time in 3 seasons, whereas Dunn has been consisten as anybody in MLB for 5 straight seasons asan on base and HR machine, all while still driving in 100runs each year and yeah, he may be a butcher in the field in right, so what? The Yanks signed another butcher to play right about 30 years ago who was just like Dunn, named reggie jackson, did you Yankee fans like him???

The areguement that I made wasn't a Giambi vs Dunn comparison. A poster suggested that we sign Dunn to protect Arod. We all know that Giambi provided horrible protection for Arod last year. Dunn doesn't figure to be any better. He hit for a lesser avg than Giambi, struckout more than Giambi and had just an awful bat w/ RISP. Plus he's very 1 dimensional and would have to be a DH. If you played him in LF, where he's horrendous defensively, then you're forced to move Damon to CF which weakens your OF defense. By all indications Matsui should be ready for duty as a full-time DH next year and I would take a healthy Matsui hitting .285/.360 w/ 25-30 hrs and 100 rbis over Dunn's sub .250 avg. 150 so and 40 hrs. Unfortunately, we won't know how healthy matsui is until he starts to play. I'd rather take that chance. I'd rather resign Abreu or drop a ton of money on Tex before bringing in a all-or-nothing kind of hitter like Dunn.

lakersdodgersyankees4life,

Can't see the Nat's giving up Ryan Zimmerman up for Loney even up, much less along with a prospect, but if the Dodgers could get him from the Nats it would fix a big hole with a young, controllable and solid player for years to come at 3rd base.

I like the Peavy to Dodgers you have possibly penciled in and have thoughts deep down he may eventually end up in Dodger town, just think that young Jonathon Broxton is what Kevin Towers is salvatating over..

Whoever compared Reggie Jackson to Dunn must be high.

Reggie Jackso LOVED the spotlight and LOVED being the center fo attention. He WANTED the pressure.

When Dunn is in the spotlight and under pressure he chokes.

Read about Dunn at the University of Texas.

Look at the Reds and Dunn's stats from September of 2006.

Look at Dunn's stats for July and then during the 10 Games after King Griffey Junior was traded this past year.

Under Steinbrenner Ownership and playing in New York in front of New York fans and having to answer questions from New York reporters, Dunn would be the WORST possible person to have on the team.

Adam Dunn's Mom stopped listening to Reds Games on the radio because she thought Marty Brennamen criticised her Son too much. Well, I would hate to think what she would do if Dunn ended up in NY and was in one of his patented month long slumps, ESPECIALLY if it happened in September (which they usually do) and the Yankees were in a pennant race and needed and were depending on Dunn putting up good numbers.

The Yankees would be better off just bringing Abreu back than signing Dunn.

"Reggie Jackso LOVED the spotlight and LOVED being the center fo attention. He WANTED the pressure."

That is where the differences end. Dunn and Jackson both have/had horrific gloves, strike/struck out at astronomical paces (I believe Jackson and Willie Stargell were neck and neck at 1 time for the all time record for K's) both hit HR's at a dizzying pace, both walk an awful lot (though Dunn has a slight nod here) Jackson was better in the clutch for the most part in his longer career, but that above is a GOOD comparison.

Do you remember Jackson ctownboy? you are correct on the individual achievements 100%, but honestly, those 2 are pretty much carbon copies of what they are/did at the plate and I am not saying that in a negative way in regard to jackson, whom was a feared HR hitter, nor in a detrimental way. I think the Yanks getting dunn would be a positive thing, just as getting jackson was a positive thing. he could hit maybe 50+, since he has even MORE power without having to end up twisted like a pretzel with his swings like Jackson did in some of his power swings built like Dunn is and his eye is better as well. With A-Rod hitting behind him and maybe Jeter in fron, what could this guy REALLY do??

Why even consider Dunn at all? we could probably get Manny for 2 years 55-60M, & Tex for 7 years 140M. Trade Matsui, (not expecting much in return, just wanna create space) so Manny can DH all the time.

johns,

I have been a Reds fan since the 1975 World Series (long story) and have seen Reggie play.

The difference between Reggie in New York and Dunn is that Reggie relished the pressure and wasn't a shrinking violet.

When Dunn came out of High School, he was a highly recruited Quarterback. He went to the University of Texas and was red shirted his Freshman year.

During that time, his Coaches wanted to move him to Tight End because of his size, speed and the thought that he wasn't going to be nearly as good a QB as they had expected. Plus, they had Chris Simms coming in.

Did Dunn say OK and accept this? No, he quit the team and took the Reds money to play baseball.

If you read articles written about Dunn, you can see his passion is for football and baseball is just a job to him. You read that Dunn used to always have a football with him or in his truck or his locker. He was always looking to throw with somebody or take them out and show how he could still throw a football 50 yards down the field in the air. You never read about that type of passion for baseball.

Now, Dunn being from Texas, loving football and going to he University of Texas, it would make you think that, when told he wasn't going to be the starting QB and would be better off as the Tight End, that Dunn would have some type of reaction OTHER than just quitting and taking the money.

You would think he would either a) get upset and try and prove the Coaches wrong and try to beat Simms out at QB, b) accept what the Coaches said and work to be the best Tight End he could be or c) transfer from Texas and try to be a football star at another school. But, he didn't do any of these things.

After I read this about Dunn, it always bothered me that he gave up the sport he was passionate about so easily and took the easy way out. I aksed myself if he could do that with football, how dedicated to baseball can he really be?

On September 4, 2006, King Griffey Junior hurt his toe and could only Pinch Hit twice the rest of the season. The Reds were in Play Off contention and NEEDED Dunn to step up. He didn't. He choked.

In 83 At Bats that September, Dunn batted .157 with two Home Runs and five RBI's while Striking Out 36 times.

Rich Aurilia, on the other hand, in 90 September At Bats, hit .344 with four Home Runs and 17 RBI's.

During that month, the Cardinals were trying to GIVE the pennant away and the Reds failed to take advantage of it. The reason the Reds failed to win that year was NOT the Pitching but the Offense.

Pre 2006 All Star break, the Reds Pitching staff ranked 11th in the NL in ERA at 4.78. Post All Star break, the staff ranked 6th at 4.19.

Pre All Star break 2006, the Reds Offense ranked 3rd in the NL with 448 Runs scored or 5.03 Runs per Game. Post All Star break, the Reds Offense ranked 15th with 301 Runs scored or 4.12 Runs per Game.

After the All Star break and specifically in September, the Reds Offense NEEDED Dunn, the Home Run hitter and Run producer to stand up and be "the man". But he didn't.

During that time when he was struggling Offensively, a reporter saw Dunn leaving the Club House with a golf bag over his shoulder and asked him why, if he was struggling, he was going golfing instead of staying and taking extra batting practice. Dunn's reply was someting like, why take batting practice that late in the season? What good would it do?

His team was in the pennant race, KGJ was out of the line up, the Offense was scuffling along, Dunn himself was struggling and he gives that type of answer.

Flash forward to 2008.

For the month of July, Dunn batted .310 (26 for 84) with 16 Runs scored, 12 Home Runs and 26 RBI's. With those stats, he barely missed being voted NL Player of the Month.

On July 31, KGJ was traded to the White Sox. During the 10 Games that spanned KGJ's trade and his own trade to the Diamondbacks, Dunn went 5 for 36 (a .139 Batting Average) with 0 Runs scored, 0 Home Runs and 0 RBI's. The Reds record during those 10 Games was 1 and 9.

During that time, the Reds went from being fourth in the NL Central with a 51 and 58 record and 14 Games out of First Place to last in the NL Central with a 52 and 67 record and 19.5 Games out of First Place.

Furthermore, go back and look at each year around the trade deadline and see if Dunn is being talked about as a trade candidate. If he is, then you will see his Offense suffers until the trade deadline passes. If he isn't, his Offense doesn't go in the tank.

Every time Dunn faces pressure, adversity or is counted on to come through, he either takes the easy way out or he fails.

Compare that to what Reggie Jackson did.

Now, think about how the Steinbrenners are towards their players, as far as performing well and winning goes.

Think about how the New York press and the Yankee fans treat players who are NOT doing well, are loafing and/or underperforming.

Now think about Dunn, his past and his stats in September.

For his career, Dunn has gone 129 for 585 in September, a .221 Batting Average. He has hit 26 Home Runs and driven in 75 RBI's.

For his career, Dunn has averaged hitting 1 HR in every 13.92 At Bats. During September, for his career, that average drops to 1 HR every 17.21 At Bats.

Now, think about the Pitching in the AL East, as compared to the NL Central? Think about pennant pressure.

Add all of this up and Dunn is nowhere near Reggie Jackson. Dunn is only comparable in that he hits Home Runs and Strikes Out a lot. Nothing else.

Oops, I forgot to add this.

Look what Ryan Howard did in September, 2008 for the Phillies. They were in a pennant race and Howard took them on his back and carried them into the Play Offs.

He did this by going 31 for 88, a .352 Batting Average. He scored 26 Runs, had 11 Home Runs, 32 RBI's and an OPS of 1.274.

While Howard didn't light up the Post Season, especially the NLDS, he didn't tank either.

No, if you want to compare anybody to Reggie Jackson, I think it would be Ryan Howard.

Howard has been named the Rookie of the Year. Has won an MVP Award, has been on All Star teams, won Home Run and RBI titles and has been on a World Series winning team as a middle of the order hitter.

All while hitting Home Runs and Striking Out a lot, just like Reggie.

I think Dunn end up with the Angels or Nationals...Burrell will end up with the Angels (if they don't get Dunn),Braves,or back with the Phillies.

thebabe666: "Trade Matsui, (not expecting much in return, just wanna create space) so Manny can DH all the time."

Manny pouts when you ask him to DH, even for a few games. He's a gold glove caliber fielder, after all. Just ask him!

Calling Manny Ramirez a gold glover is quite the statment. I've seen him make some good catches, but I have also seen some plays that make me ponder why he is even allowed to set foot in the outfield. A lot of those really good catches could have been routine catches for a person of average speed. Not to mention that LF in Yankee Stadium is a little more spacious than what he is used to. I agree that Manny will not be happy with DH and not play well because of it, so I say bag it all together. His bat is not worth the combination of that much money, bad fielding, and and a sour presence in front of others.