Giants Sign Renteria?

Remember whe the Reds had Catu? Cantu played admirably for the Reds when he started..Reds shouldve resigned him...

Reds need to move in o Sachez ad Molina and send then Encarnacion their way, possibly with another prospect.

Just for my own fun--The Reds better not be the Third team..unless Cubs sed us Vitters and Pie for Bailey and Thompson...

don't the marlins have enough young pitching?? Cantu's a solid player and I'd love to get him out of the NL East.

one of the mystery teams in the peavy deal is the teamsters, and the pitching prospect is the second gunman from the grassy knoll. the other is the braves.

I know this site has a lot of Cubs fans, so I've got this question:

How will Peavy fare if he goes to Chicago? What would his numbers look like with Petco out of the equation and Wrigley in it?

Is he a number 1 starter, still? Does his ERA climb to the mid 3s? Worse?

Just looking for some perspective.

wouldnt the giants rather get EE and another prospect for Molina and Sanchez?

why would the marlins trade Cantu for an old(in marlins terms) pitcher when he was their most consistent player throughout the season. That is stupid

If the Giants are going to trade Sanchez, they better get somebody more intriguing than Cantu. That guys gets on-base about as often as an American League pitcher.

I'll take Peavy's 10-1 record away from Petco an ERA of 2.57, WHIP of 1.05, and Batting Average Against of .195 in 99.

Good luck getting Jacobs from the Marlins.

well here go giants fans over-valuing their pitching again.

Hey maybe if I gave you Utley, Howard, Victorino and Carrasco do you think you'd part with Brian Wilson??

if i'm the giants and want to deal sanchez to florida, i would build a reasonable package around dallas mcpherson rather cantu

I'm not about to put Brian Sabean before the firing squad based on a rumor, but the Giants have got to do better than Jorge Cantu for a young, power lefty like Jonathan Sanchez. Cantu is a show horse: he puts up nice numbers in the flashy categories, but his defense is poor and his total package is less than his power numbers suggest. At a minimum, Sanchez should be packaged for an impact player. This ship has sailed, but guys like Sanchez are the second or third piece of trades for talents like Matt Holliday (see: Greg Smith - who would you rather have?).

I'll give up Vitters in a second to get Peavy. It's just the pessimist in me, but the Cubs haven't produced a good, everyday position player from their own system since Mark Grace for God's sake. (I realize they seem to have struck gold with Soto, but lets see him sustain that production for a few years before we annoint the guy.) IMO, Vitters is a lot more likely to be the next Gary Scott or Kevin Orie than he is to be the next Ron Santo or Aramis Ramirez. If he has to go in a trade, then by all means let's sell while his value is still high.

How can you compare McPherson to cantu when he hasn't played more than half a season in his career?

there :)

when you look at both sides of the ball, Cantu is a step down from Pete Feliz. Better OBP, but otherwise he is equal or worse in every other category. I guess he's younger so maybe he gets better, but I think he's been in the league long enough to show us what he is.

In the Giants lineup and in that ballpark, he might hit 25 HR in 620 AB. Not really going to make a difference for the Giants offense, while losing Sanchez would create a hole that would likely be filled by someone worse than or much more expensive than Sanchez.

Hey Phils, are the Phillies involved in this whatsoever? No. So piss off. Why don't you ask Tim if we are overvaluing Sanchez. You've shown over and over you have no clue what you're talking about.

I was mainly talking about Cantu from seeing him hit well against the Phils this year and was taken aback by the Giants fans complaining about this deal. Yes Cantu's defense is below average but he hit 29HRs and 95 RBI's and 41 doubles in the Marlins pitchers park. This is exactly the player the Giants would need and you won't trade a pitcher that's got a lot of potential but who's proven exactly nothing on the MLB level?

And by Tim's response I'd guess he'd favor it for the Marlins but if you don't factor in HOW the Marlins got Cantu, I think he may say differently?

So Tim, what say you?

I've read what he says about Sanchez. I will bet you anything right now that he would say that regardless of what they got Cantu for that this would be a steal for the Marlins.

Also I love Sanchez's upside but I agree that Cantu for him seems like a pretty even swap for both sides. It's a nice find for the Marlins because they stole Cantu, but that doesn't make his value any less just because they got him on the cheap.

freshbreaker,

yes he had a solid first year but you left out his 5+ ERA in a pitchers park and his high amount of walks. He's done it for one year. Does he have a lot of talent and potential, absolutely. Will he put it together and become a very good or even great pitcher, we'll see. That's what I meant by unproven.

I would hope the Rangers would offer more than Cantu, but nothing surprises me any more.

You dissed the Giants pitching, which Lincecum is a part of. Cain has solid enough numbers to be the ace for half the MLB. Sanchez reminds me a lot of Dontrelle Willis in his prime. His stuff is straight nasty but like the current D-Train he can break down fairly easily. Sanchez tripled his inning count this year. Im seriously supprised they didnt shut him down, but the kid has got crazy upside.

Tim, I just think that with the Dodgers and Arizona not signinig some of they good players, they see that they can compete and win he division. With the Dodgers not having Manny, Lowe and Furcal, that already makes the Giants better.

Phill- You really have no idea what you are talking about. You may know a lot about Cantu because he faced your Phillies, but we know more about Sanchez. He has filthy stuff but fatigue hit him towards the end of the season. He is a fire baller and a quality pitcher. Is he an ace? No but hes a solid #3 pitcher with potential to be a #2 pitcher. Still not worth giving up for Cantu. I'm all for trading him as a package for Uggla.

Sabean will talk about the others but he will quietly pursue CC to avoid having Arte Moreno and Steinbrenner use him as a doormat. If the Giants can be within $10 million of the highest offer, they may land CC.

Enough with the little kid arguements. The reason the Giants want to offload Sanchez is because the have Baumgardner waiting. He should be up by mid season and they are the same pitcher, obviuosly Baumgardner with more potential and a higher investment. If you kept Sanchez, you have 4 LF starters, one of which I'd love to get rid of but can't (we all know his name). Sanchez for Cantu and a prospect or draft pick would be a good deal for the Giants. Cantu fills the whole until Gillespie gets enough at bats to prove himself.
And for anyone argueing the Giants starting pitching, ask a baseball person and they will tell you, this has the potential to be the mid 90's braves staff.

I would trade Sanchez for Maybin and Cantu, and then plug both in and move Rowand to RF.

by the way, KFER is B-Gard going to be a #5 starter at age 19, I don't think that will ever happen, unless he learns to throw the "FLOAT" Ball like Rowangardner

JaCoby,

I did no such thing. I dissed many Giants fans OPINIONS of their pitchers. Heck we all overvalue our teams players to a certain extent.

And Lincecum4cy,

he is a very good pitcher, and i realize he wore down but there's no saying he will do it again and his ERA and walks have to be a concern. I know he's only pitched for 1+ years really but to me if he pitches great in 09 then maybe he will be a #3 or possibly even a 2, but if he struggles with control and his ERA hovers around 4.5-5 then he's a 4.

I would trade Sanchez for Maybin and Cantu, and then plug both in and move Rowand to RF.

The Marlins would NEVER do that. I'd love them to, but they won't. And again why would they do a trade for Sanchez. They are stacked at young pitchers for years to come.

You may be close on that. But I still don't see the Giants signing CC. They have to renegotiate with Lincecum soon, especially since he's saying that he wants a long term. You sign CC, that's way too much money wrapped up in pitching. And we Giants fans saw what a good pitching staff with no run support does, it makes your #2 loose games only giving up 2 runs. That sickens me.

Sanchez is a young lefty withe electric stuff who ran out of gas in his first full season....

Cantu is straight out of the junk yard.

You can tell that Ned Colletti clearly learned from the master of morons...

Won't happen. If Molina goes, it'll be at the deadline and only if the Giants repeat their stellar performance from the past 3 years. He'll be worth more. Don't get me wrong, Molina will be gone at some point, but they'll wait on trading him or simply not resigning him. He's valuable enough to teach Sandoval and Posey a thing or two behind the plate.

"Tim, I just think that with the Dodgers and Arizona not signinig some of they good players, they see that they can compete and win he division. With the Dodgers not having Manny, Lowe and Furcal, that already makes the Giants better."

Umm okay.

that makes no sense whats so ever.

Giants are going to look tough on paper (well for the NL West at least)...Sabean is def. filling the holes or at least trying

Can't wait to see our new No.2 take the mound.

:)

i doubt that CC lands with the giants. I see Arte Moreno shelling out more cash and getting him. Tex is replaceable, good offensive first baseman come and go.

Kevin Pucetas has never pitched above A ball. How much can he possibly contribute next year?

if we dont get manny and blake back we still have a better lineup than the giants.

they hit like 94 homeruns last year.. they have good pitching but cannot score runs. they wont scare anyone..

the giants are coming but not in 09.

I like ryan zimmerman so much more from the nationals. Could he possibly be available. Rowand, sanchez, and winn for zim, then giants sign burrel move lewis to center and nate in right.

Next years lineup:

Burris 2B
Lewis CF
Zimmerman3B
Burrell LF
Bengie C
Pablo 1B
Renteria SS
Shierholtz RF

Rotation:
Lincecum
Cain
Zito
I don't know
I don't know

How about we trade Randy Winn(or Aaron Rowand), Molina, and Sanchez for Encarnacion, Dickerson, Bailey and Alex Gonzalez?
Both teams get what they want
and I would much rather have Gonzalez over Renteria because he is cheaper and a better defensive SS

GmblngPtchr20: The Reds and the Giants could match up well in a deal, but it won't be for EE. He no longer belongs at 3B, and the Giants don't need another OF. Be patient on that front as Molina will not be expendable unless the Giants aren't competing near the deadline.

Kfer: Not to be rude, but his name is Madison BUMGARNER, not Baum. Still a prospect, and unlikely to see MLB action until late 2010, but at least spell his name correctly.

PhilsWSchamps: Why are you always in the Giants forums bashing their pitching? I understand if you want to bring an argument to the table, but you never reason, you just state that their pitching is horrible?

Regarding Cantu for Sanchez: Sanchez's value and potential far exceeds Cantu's. It does not matter that Cantu was acquired for 500k, but it is important to note that he was cut because his performance wavered so drastically he did not deserve a professional roster spot. Trading a young power LHP for a 1B in Cantu, his defense is atrocious at 3B and he should not be playing there, is not the type of move a smart franchise makes.

However, if the Marlins were willing to include a lower level prospect in the deal, perhaps 1B Logan Morrison who I believe is extremely undervalued as a prospect, it could potentially even out the deal. Sanchez is a valuable commodity who should not be peddled for a revived hitter like Cantu who career could regress in the very near future.

Leland,

sorry but exactly why would the Nats deal their cornerstone great defensive 3B for an overpriced Rowand, an unproven Sanchez (no matter what most of you say) and an overprice Randy Winn? he's also controllable for what 3 more years? Sorry, there's no way.

And The Juice,

I LOVE the Giants rotation. They have one of the best rotations in the NL (especially if Lowry can come back healthy). When will you all get that I'm not bashing them, but bashing that you won't even consider sensible trades for them because some of you over-value them.

When Jonathan Sanchez pitches for 2 years to a 3.5 ERA and is a #2 starter, I'll come on here and apologize. Until then he's an unproven commodity.

And sorry i didn't realize only Giants fans could post here.

Enough with the little kid arguements. The reason the Giants want to offload Sanchez is because the have Baumgardner waiting. He should be up by mid season and they are the same pitcher, obviuosly Baumgardner with more potential and a higher investment. If you kept Sanchez, you have 4 LF starters, one of which I'd love to get rid of but can't (we all know his name). Sanchez for Cantu and a prospect or draft pick would be a good deal for the Giants. Cantu fills the whole until Gillespie gets enough at bats to prove himself.
And for anyone argueing the Giants starting pitching, ask a baseball person and they will tell you, this has the potential to be the mid 90's braves staff.

Posted by: Kfer | December 03, 2008 at 04:03 PM

MIDSEASON????

What the heck are you drinking? No offense but what team in their right mind rushes a pitcher from Low A ball to the Major leagues? hehad a nice year but no where is he close to ready by midseason. He will be in the High A next year and after that AA then he will be ready for the big leagues, you have 2 years at least on that arm you are waiting on.

As for the marlins view for this:

Miller >>> Sanchez and that whose spot he would be taking out from us. I would rather see Andrew miller whom has better potential then Sanchez then see Sanchez personally.

the fish have a solid rotation without a move like this.

Volstad, Johnson, Nolasco, Miller, A. Sanchez is a solid rotation, no need for this move to be made. We have a few arms in the wings like Hurk, West, Sinkbeil, etc etc etc.

If I am making this trade I want Tim Alderson instead of sanchez. He fits more in what the fish need for the long term, a good potential 2-3 type starter that has no time spent in the big leagues for service already that has long term potential to grow with teh team as they get a new park. Move nolasco after next year in a sell high when he comes expensive then pull him up.

for now sanchez doesnt really do it for me. I rather have cantu since we already lost far too many Hr's out of our lineup and the drop off from cantu to Bonifico (sp) would be monsterous in offensive ability

philsWSchamps I don't think you are blind to value of pitching in the MLB. This was Sanchez's first full season in the bigs and had some dominating performances. Yeah he was inconsistent and wore down towards the end of the season. This is not a shock for a young pitcher as most pitchers have to go through this. Sanchez for Cantu???? Purely an over hyped rumor Giants would never do it. If you think Sanchez is so overvalued why is AJ Burnett commanding a 5 year deal worth about 80 mil. Look at their numbers and performances....they are extremely similar.

Some of these trade proposals are hilarious. Maybin and Cantu for Sanchez, Morrison and Cantu...give me a break. Sanchez has good stuff, but he's 26 years old. The Marlins aren't going to trade one of two of the top prospects in baseball for a 26-year old who has only pitched one full season, and broke down in doing so...

As far as Bengie Molina having more value at the trade deadline than now, how is THAT possible?

Teams need and WANT a Catcher NOW. How is saving Molina until the trade deadline going to drive up his value when teams have already signed or traded for a Catcher? At the trade deadline, he would, at most, be a two month rental and then he would be a Free Agent.

Also, what happens to Molina's value if the Rangers decide they are not getting enough in value for the offers they are receiving for their Catchers and hold them until the trade deadline?

Since when 26 is old?

Since when 26 is old?

Posted by: DominicanYanks | December 03, 2008 at 09:58 PM

When a guy has so much upside apparently.

This really is an unnecessary deal for the Marlins. They already have enough good, young pitching as it is, and I would take each and every one of the Marlins' starters over Sanchez.

Phils-after thinking more about the nats proposal, I believe that they are reworking their team, and that nothing is set in stone. I take back the rowand part of the deal and replace him with some young arms not named bumgarner or alderson and possibly velez who could replace bonificio's speed utility role. Winn, however, could be very valuable to them due to his .300 BA and above average defense.

Posted by: Leland11 | December 03, 2008 at 10:15 PM

they are trading the face of their franchise for that? Come on dude, I like the SF system right now it has some nice pieces but the best player on the Nats, their team is built around and advertises around isnt going anywhere without a top flight talent going back towards them and an ancient winn is not that.

Phils-after thinking more about the nats proposal, I believe that they are reworking their team, and that nothing is set in stone. I take back the rowand part of the deal and replace him with some young arms not named bumgarner or alderson and possibly velez who could replace bonificio's speed utility role. Winn, however, could be very valuable to them due to his .300 BA and above average defense.

Leland please don't take this the wrong way, but re-working their team doesn't mean (WORKING FOR THE GIANTS). I'm thinking this is why i come around here because some Giants fans have the greatest imaginations on trades.

That is the same as me coming back here in 5 years and saying, hey let me trade you a couple of minor leaguers who've proved nothing for Buster Posey, the offensive face of your franchise. You'd laugh me out of here with good reason.

No way. You take out Rowand, good, but replace him with a light hitting 26 year old minor leaguer? Ya he can run, but really, seriously???