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« Odds And Ends: Red Sox, Andruw, Roberts | Main | Olney on Moorad, Peavy, Hoffman »
Dodgers Rework Andruw Jones Deal
SATURDAY, 11:23am: Buster Olney's sources tell him that Jones will receive the $15MM he's owed in 2009 over the next six seasons, without interest. Apparently the Dodgers are likely to call the Braves, Reds and Mets about potential trades. One source familiar with the discussions said it's virtually certain that the Mets won't be interested.
11:55pm: Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times says the deal cuts Jones' 2009 salary to about $5MM. The Dodgers agreed to trade or release him; interested teams may prefer to wait for the latter. Shaikin says the Jones restructuring is independent of the Manny Ramirez situation.
7:51pm: Ken Gurnick of MLB.com reports that the Major League Players Association has approved the contract agreement, which will defer Jones' remaining salary. According to an industry source, Jones will either be traded or released before the start of spring training and perhaps sometime this month.
FRIDAY, 2:38pm: SI.com's Jon Heyman says the Dodgers and Jones have agreed to rework his contract to save the team $12MM in '09. Jones is likely to play for another team in the coming season.
THURSDAY, 9:55pm: As pointed out in the comments section below, Andruw's '09 salary could be deferred across several years and would thus gain interest, resulting in a higher total payout. That could work for both sides. A blog called Fantasy Sports Experience recalls a similar situation with the Mets and Bobby Bonilla in 2000.
9:40pm: Ken Gurnick of MLB.com has confirmed that Jones' contract is being reworked. It could be an extension or a deferred buyout.
9:00pm: I just spoke with Simers, who tells me that the Dodgers "would do the deal with Scott Boras." Jones' 2009 salary "would be reduced to make him attractive" to possible suitors in a trade. And the agreement would essentially free up money on the Dodgers' side that would head directly towards Ramirez, another Boras client. But it's still unclear why Jones would want to take the paycut. Is Boras going to pay the man out of his own pocket? This kind of dealing is unheard of in the sports world, but you can never doubt the almighty Scott Boras.
8:38pm: T.J. Simers of the L.A. Times has heard that the Dodgers are working on a deal to unload outfielder Andruw Jones.
Simers claims that the deal would save the team $12MM and "send the guy, who couldn't hit a thing, seeking employment elsewhere." Jones is in the final year of a two-year contract and is set to make around $15MM in '09. He's not just going to forfeit that money, so it's not exactly clear what kind of a "deal" the article is speaking of. A trade? Buyouts don't typically happen in baseball. Nonetheless, Simers is onto something and it appears the Dodgers are readying the cash to make an offer to Manny Ramirez.
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DOES ANDRUW JONES FOR HIDEKI MATSUI MAKE SENSE TO ANYONE ELSE BUT ME??
Posted by: pvilly131
If the dodgers are trying to dump Andruw and his fat contract so they can sign manny. Why would they want Matsui? They still have Pierre on contract as well. Flat out idiotic idea.
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 01, 2009 at 11:37 PM
This move would benefit all involved. It is pretty obvious at this point that the Dodgers' issues are with short-term cash flow, not some sort of severe financial distress. McCourt is spending a ton of money on the stadium refurbishment and the Dodgers are locked into a crappy TV deal with FOX as part of the contract for McCourt to buy the team that ends in something like 6-7 years. On top of it, they have all this dead money in Schmidt and Jones (at least Pierre can physically play the game). By restructuring Jones' contract, they pay more in dollars, but pay less right away, which is really want they want.
Posted by: AA | January 02, 2009 at 12:11 AM
"My overall point is that instead of focusing on screwing Manny and not paying him what he is worth, the Dodgers should use the leverage they have to screw Boras and Jones since Jones was the most grossly overpaid player in baseball last year."
definitely. Give Manny a fair contract, one that will make both sides happy, and send A Jones off to an American League team that's going nowhere, but is willing to give up a pitching prospect or two.
Posted by: Bob Raines | January 02, 2009 at 12:12 AM
if there isn't a team willing to part with a couple of prospects, even AA sort-of-prospects. then the Dodgers should let AJones walk and strike his own deal.
Posted by: Bob Raines | January 02, 2009 at 12:17 AM
Andruw had one of the worst years in history per dollar. There is no way he can come back in a Dodger uniform and turn it around---too much water under that bridge. He needs a change of scenery. But the Dodgers can't eat enough of his salary to make him go away. The solution of deferred salary only makes sense to the Dodgers. Why would Andruw want to wait for his cash? What would be his incentive to agree?
Best solution is to dress him up in full uniform and have him hawk malts and Manny wigs up on the reserve level. Or maybe have him host nightly hot dog eating contests out in the bleachers. I mean, McCourt is all about giving back to the community, right? This would be win-win.
Posted by: paxterj | January 02, 2009 at 12:53 AM
Andru has made it clear that he wants to leave LA and head somewhere else to try and re-establish his career. Seeing as how his contract is such a deterent for most teams that MIGHT be willing to give him a shot, it would make sense for him to allow them to restructure the payments so it's not an issue for trade possibilities. The Dodgers would still have to pay him almost the entire amount I'm sure and would be willing to take almost nothing in return but a trade works best for both. Remember, Andru has probably earned over 80 mil in his career already so spreading out the 18 mil over a few years w/ interest isn't a big deal at all for him. If he lands with another team, then maybe he can rebound and extend his career when he becomes a FA after 09?
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 02, 2009 at 01:21 AM
"Why would Andruw want to wait for his cash? What would be his incentive to agree?"
One Word. Interest. Especially in today's market, where investments are a risk and rates are terrible. He could probably get an easy 8-10% out of the Dodgers, and still get to sign with another team for whatever he could get to rebuild his value.
Posted by: AA | January 02, 2009 at 01:23 AM
If Jones ends up stuck with the Dodgers next year, imagine how awkward that's gonna be. It seems like the whole offseason the Dodgers have been trying to find new ways to get rid of Jones, and even before the season ended there were reports of McCourt trying to sue Jones to recoup some money. Having Jones in LA was horrible last season, I can't even begin to think how horrible it will be to see Jones in a Dodger uniform in 09 after all this has gone down.
Posted by: IEBlue | January 02, 2009 at 01:29 AM
Jones won't break Spring Training with the Dodgers. He'd be too much of a distraction with the team. If anything, he'll be sitting down in AAA with some "injury". Or he'll be sitting at home collecting his paycheck.
Jones has made it clear multiple times that he doesn't want to be in LA. I'm sure he'd be willing to restructure his deal so he could play for a low profile team for a year. I think his main goal is getting out of LA.
I'm sure the Dodgers and Jones could come to an agreement where Jones would be paid $6M this season, then $3M each season over the next 5 years. Then maybe Colletti could offer Jones to a team like the Tigers while agreeing to pay half of the $6M to Jones for this season, then his entire deferment. This could be a low risk/ high reward for the Tigers. And if not Detroit, maybe the Astros.
The fans of LA really hated Jones, and they let him know it. He wants nothing to do with the place. I think he'll agree to anything it takes within reason to get out of LA.
As for the people saying that the MLBPA won't let players restructure their salaries, that's incorrect. In fact, Roy Oswalt offered to restructure his salary this season if it would help them sign someone else. And I believe there were players signed to contracts by the Arizona Diamondbacks that restructured their contracts to pay them well into retirement back around 2003 or so.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | January 02, 2009 at 02:30 AM
First off, I don't think the Dodgers are saving $12 mill on Andruw's contract, its just that probably $12 mill will get deferred over a period of time so that the amount that Andruw gets is only $12 mill. Or maybe, in the event of a trade, a buyout will be negotiated b/w Andruw and the Dodgers to facilitate a trade. I don't think the MLBPA will fuss too much if Andruw has to negotiate a buyout IF it improves the situation for the player, which, in this case, would be the case if Andruw got traded.
Secondly, it all makes sense and I will even give another twist I got off a Dodger board re: how Andruw's restructuring affects other Boras clients' besides Andruw and Manny.
Boras reworks Andruw's deal to save the Dodgers $12 mill in '09 and in return not only do the Dodgers get Manny BUT they also get to re-sign Lowe, who, at this point, really appears to have seen his value drop.
Now, most likely Boras will ask for a 1 yr deal so Lowe can try the free agent market again in '10. Since Lowe never goes on the DL, this is not a bad gamble for Lowe.
THEN, with Lowe having been taken off the market, Boras will be able to peddle Oliver Perez back to the Mets. Seeing as Perez's value is even worse than Lowe's AND the fact that he's a type A free agent, he would appear to have a hard time finding a suitor besides the Mets.
With Perez pretty much being the best available pitcher out there once Lowe signs, the Mets will focus on getting Perez and he should be able to get a decent, if not gigantic like he wanted, deal.
Boras achieves many things under this scenario:
1. He is able to free Andruw from a very bad situation for him playing-wise.
2. He's able to get Manny a large deal (if only for 3 or 4 yrs).
3. He's able to get Lowe his money for '09 and then can try the market again in '10 when, hopefully, the economy will be better.
4. He is able to land a decent deal for Oliver Perez with the only team he probably could have gotten it from in this market and considering his arbitration status, the Mets.
Its complicated but is very manipulating and brilliant, which is right up Boras' alley, negotiations-wise.
Posted by: Die-Hard Dodger Fan | January 02, 2009 at 03:23 AM
Remember though that Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Bradley are all on the market, this doesn't get solved anytime soon if at all, because I have no idea why any team would be interested in him. If i were a GM, I would need the Dodgers to pick up most of the money, and chip in at least an A-level prospect.
I get Billingsly and Jones and the Dodgers get some salary relief.
Posted by: quintjs | January 01, 2009 at 09:52 PM
Sorry, and dont take this personally, but god you are dumb.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 02, 2009 at 07:17 AM
CutMe,
1. I was being sarcastic because to get rid of Jones, you have to give up something else with him.
2. If Manny is signed, LA owes close to 60 million to outfielders who will be sitting on the bench.
Posted by: Theo Epstein | January 01, 2009 at 11:06 PM
Not really, but good thinking you know our team when you dont.
If we get Manny, there is zero chacne we keep both pierre and jones, and jones is the first to go. Also, you act as if it would be 60 mill of outfielders for the year. Jones has 1 year left, pierre has 3 at 28 mill i believe. He should make 8-10 mill this year, making it around 25-30 mill between the two, but there is, like I said, zero chance we have both by the start of the season.
That is, of course, if we sign manny or dunn.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 02, 2009 at 07:27 AM
Colleti should just make it a Scott Boras three way. Buyout Jones at the Boras negotiated price, so Boras can get him into a Nationals jersey, taking the savings from the "generous" buyout; sign Manny at slightly above the Dodgers' price, $48M/2yr, and, as a sign of good faith, agree to sign Oliver Perez to a 4yr deal at an amicable price($50-55M) for both sides. Thus, Boras gets 3 commissions, for getting 3 clients signed, the Dodgers' fill to needs and add by subtracting, and Boras can continue to look like a genius, while Colleti doesn't look as stupid as everyone thinks he is.
Posted by: aj7380 | January 02, 2009 at 08:32 AM
Ivdown,
15 M = Jones 09 Salary
2.1 M = Jones 09 Bonus
5 M = Jones 10 Bonus
9 M = Pierre 09
10 M = Pierre 10
8.5 M = Pierre 11
It's 50 million on the bench from the OF, sorry.
So what do I think I know that I don't. You just said the same exact thing I said (they both need to be traded), but you told me I was wrong?
Posted by: Theo Epstein | January 02, 2009 at 08:37 AM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/mets/index.html
do those two pictures show andruw jones 'in shape'? he still looks too big
Posted by: Zack | January 02, 2009 at 08:39 AM
"the stakes were high"
I think they meant,
"the steaks were high".
Posted by: Cyyoung | January 02, 2009 at 08:48 AM
If a Boras player is unhappy and wants to bolt a team- he will do his best to accomodate and get it done. Look at the Manny Ramirez saga last year if you need an example.
I think Jones is willing to be a little creative to leave LA. It would be short sighted to just collect this salary when he knows he only has 1 year left on his deal.
Posted by: optionn | January 02, 2009 at 09:05 AM
"The only thing in the Dodgers favour is if they play the real hard line, which they won't they could possibly force Boras into a tough situation given he represents Manny.
Dodgers next offer to manny should be 2/40, and not a cent higher."
I agree. I wish the Dodgers would stand firm with Boras. Not to be jerks, but firm and not let the agent get the upper hand when they are in the driver's seat on Manny. I don't buy the Giants rumors until confirmed. Oh well. In the end, Colletti won't be hard lined and not just because of the Jones situation.
Posted by: studio179 | January 02, 2009 at 09:18 AM
Red Sox paid some salary for Manny last year?
Posted by: Cyyoung | January 02, 2009 at 09:40 AM
Given how Andruw has played over the last few years, it really makes you wonder what team is going to take a chance on him.. and how much of that salary the Dodgers are going to eat.
Imagine if A.J. were a free agent right now.. How much do you think a team would pay on the chance of an Andruw Jones revival?! 3, 4, maybe $5 million?
Posted by: GoTribe | January 02, 2009 at 10:31 AM
GoTribe,
A team that could afford to take a gamble on Andruw might pay $4 mm, esp. if they have someone in the high minors who could possibly step in if Andruw really is a sub-.200 hitter now -- or a fourth OF who could be pressed into service every day if needed.
I can't see any decent team that has an opening for a starting OF taking a chance on him now.
Posted by: ink-stained scribe | January 02, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Omar, Just stay far away from Andruw. Anybody, even Manny, would be better!!!
Posted by: Desiree' | January 02, 2009 at 11:57 AM
"Red Sox paid some salary for Manny last year?"
The Red Sox paid Manny's entire salary last year. The Dodgers were on the hook for his $1 million relocation bonus, which they probably made back in one day.
Posted by: AA | January 02, 2009 at 12:32 PM
If Colletti can unload Jones' contract in a manner that makes sense for the Dodgers, then fine. There is an expensive OF surplus with him on board. However, I think it may be the best choice to see how he does in spring training. remember, the season before '08 he hit something like 30 HR right? and then dropped his BA to .180 or something. He could just as quickly rebound to the hitter he used to be; there are so many intangibles that we (the posters on this site) are unaware of. I say keep him and try to use him to get your money's worth....
Posted by: thinkblue | January 02, 2009 at 01:12 PM
Seems like a bad move that the Pirates would make.
Posted by: BucSox | January 02, 2009 at 02:52 PM
"If Colletti can unload Jones' contract in a manner that makes sense for the Dodgers, then fine. There is an expensive OF surplus with him on board."
The reworked deal will pretty much assure that Jones will be released.
"However, I think it may be the best choice to see how he does in spring training. remember, the season before '08 he hit something like 30 HR right?"
No, it is a terrible choice, because it will clog both the roster and the payroll, because I don't see him agreeing to this kind of deferral without the assurance that he will be able to get another $1-$2 million somewhere else.
Also, He only hit 26 HR in 2007 and but a .311 OBP to go with a .222 AVG. That the Dodgers signed him in the first place was insane.
Posted by: AA | January 02, 2009 at 02:53 PM
Does anybody think a three-way deal might work out:
Mets give: Luis Castillo, Ryan Church
Mets get: Andruw Jones, Jimmy Gobble, a weak prospect
Dodgers give: Andruw Jones, cash
Dodgers get: A weak prospect
Royals give: Jimmy Gobble, 2 weak prospects
Royals get: Luis Castillo, Ryan Church, cash
Explanation:
Mets: Open up a spot for Jones by getting rid of Castillo and get a lefty reliever who has upside. Basically they'd be buying low on two players that fit their team.
Dodgers: They'd be dumping Jones and getting more than they asked for.
Royals: The Dodgers would essentially be giving the Mets money for Jones that would allow the Mets to pay part of Castillo's salary. The Royals would get a good OBP second-baseman and a power hitting Left Fielder that they can keep and try to dump Guillen to free up money for signing a free agent, or flip for a reliever to rebuild their pen after the loss of Ramirez. The Royals lineup could look like this:
1. Crisp
2. Castillo
3. DeJesus
4. Jacobs
5. Aviles
6. Gordon
7. Church
8. Butler
9. Olivo/Buck
...or like this:
1. Crisp
2. Castillo
3. DeJesus
4. Guillen
5. Jacobs
6. Aviles
7. Gordon
8. Butler
9. Olivo/Buck
Posted by: nextdaytonmoore | January 02, 2009 at 03:10 PM
Agreed AA. Thinkblue, so what if Andruw does well in Spring Training? If we sign Manny, which it looks like the Dodgers will, where will Andruw Jones go? Are you telling me that Torre will play Andruw Jones, a guy who had a terrible season and declining numbers all around, over a young stud in Matt Kemp? Surely they won't move Ethier, who proved his worth last year. And Manny...well...you get the picture.
It makes no sense at all for the Dodgers to give him a shot in the spring unless they don't sign Manny, Dunn or Abreu.
Posted by: MrBlake14 | January 02, 2009 at 03:11 PM
"With Jones agreeing to defer more than half his $20 million salary"
So it comes to about $9M, perhaps? Or exactly Julio Lugo's salary? Hmmmmm. How much did they hate Lugo the first time around? Would they be willing to put up with him again to get rid of Jones? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Little Bear | January 02, 2009 at 03:11 PM
The Dodgers would want better than a weak prospect. Maybe a mid-level higher ceiling corner infielder prospect, or low-level, high ceiling pitching prospect.
Posted by: MrBlake14 | January 02, 2009 at 03:13 PM
"I doubt there is anyway the players association lets something like this fly.. even if Jones was stupid enough to ditch ~10 million dollars."
If the MLPA wouldn't allow the ARod deal with the Red Sox, they certainly aren't going to allow this! No, it would have to be deferred payments with interest to pass muster.
Posted by: Little Bear | January 02, 2009 at 03:15 PM
Walt Jocketty is just crazy enough to sign a guy like Andruw Jones and bat him third. He is an overpaid RH OF which I believe is the criteria. He's only 31 though which might not be old enough.
Posted by: davidmp2 | January 02, 2009 at 04:09 PM
I think AA is right- Jones will rework his contract in exchange for a promise to be released. That will give him an opportunity to make minimum wage with another team while still being payed 12 MM by the Dodgers in 2009.
Posted by: rthlshrtbrkr | January 02, 2009 at 05:53 PM
Will Jones get interest on the money?
Posted by: Kramerica Industries | January 02, 2009 at 08:03 PM
So long Andruw, we hardly knew ye
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 02, 2009 at 08:09 PM
Omar, Just stay far away from Andruw. Anybody, even Manny, would be better!!!
Posted by: Desiree'
Wow, there are some serious idiots around here.
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 02, 2009 at 08:13 PM
that's the first move. Now, drop the other shoe and sign manny,
Posted by: Bob Raines | January 02, 2009 at 08:22 PM
"What happened to Andruw Jones?"
He's not the first player to fall off a cliff at 35.
Posted by: George Purcell | January 02, 2009 at 08:49 PM
"He's not the first player to fall off a cliff at 35."
uhhh? maybe you should look up his actual age
Posted by: chromelife | January 02, 2009 at 08:55 PM
"What happened to Andruw Jones?"
He's not the first player to fall off a cliff at 35.
Posted by: George Purcell
Andruw is currently 31.
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 02, 2009 at 08:56 PM
nextdaytonmoore , I love your enthusiasm! As a KC fan, I would give away Gobble for your used cumrag. I would take that trade in a heartbeat if Castillo was left out. We dont want or need him. Callaspo will put up similar numbers for the league minimum.
Posted by: PJH | January 02, 2009 at 09:05 PM
He CLAIMS to be 31.
Posted by: George Purcell | January 02, 2009 at 09:18 PM
Ha, nice excuse instead of admitting you looked like an idiot.
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 02, 2009 at 09:34 PM
Andruw and Pujols have a combined age of 65. Any guesses who is how old?
Hey Dodger fans, I guess this dump of Andruw is just what you needed in order to land the big Boras fish...welcome to LA, Ron Villone!
Posted by: paxterj | January 02, 2009 at 09:38 PM
Um, no, I did it quite intentionally. Looked at Baseball Reference beforehand and everything.
Posted by: George Purcell | January 02, 2009 at 09:38 PM
Ron Villone! Hilarious...
Posted by: NedCollettiClueless | January 02, 2009 at 09:45 PM
Ivdown,
15 M = Jones 09 Salary
2.1 M = Jones 09 Bonus
5 M = Jones 10 Bonus
9 M = Pierre 09
10 M = Pierre 10
8.5 M = Pierre 11
It's 50 million on the bench from the OF, sorry.
So what do I think I know that I don't. You just said the same exact thing I said (they both need to be traded), but you told me I was wrong?
Posted by: Theo Epstein | January 02, 2009 at 08:37 AM
and like i said, that is over the course of the contracts, not for a year. And also like i said, jones and pierre wont be on the bench for the dodgers in 09 if we sign another outfielder.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 02, 2009 at 09:49 PM
No team, including the Braves want Andrew Jones. He's a walking strikeout circus. He's only good for pure humor.
Posted by: GiantsOverDoyersIn09 | January 02, 2009 at 09:53 PM
I was at a Doyer/Giants game at Doyer Stadium and Andrew made a routine catch and since we were riding Andrew so hard all game a Doyer fan stood up and said "Worth every penny."
I looked up at the scoreboard and he was batting .111. STICKS! lol
Posted by: GiantsOverDoyersIn09 | January 02, 2009 at 09:56 PM
he always sucked
Posted by: bill | January 02, 2009 at 10:08 PM
is there a chance that jones might be older than people think he is? idk, maybe that could explain his sudden drop in productivity, like with tejada.
i'm not familiar with curacao or there politics. would a curacaon (??) possibly forge a birth certificate like how dominicans do sometimes?
Posted by: Berke_ | January 02, 2009 at 10:33 PM
Of course it happens. Would you rather have a 19 yr old prospect or a 23 yr old prospect. Sometimes the only way to get noticed is to lie and say your younger. But you cant just assumed everyone is lying (not saying that are). But it happens everywhere a lot more than people realize.
Posted by: chicubs25 | January 02, 2009 at 10:52 PM
if anything he could be a year or two older, but nothing drastic. Even if he is older (which I don't think he is), he would still be too young to blame age. It's part mental and that he's out of shape. Mostly mental though.
Posted by: GiantsOverDoyersIn09 | January 02, 2009 at 11:00 PM
andruw to yanks!!!!!!1
Posted by: pvilly131 | January 03, 2009 at 12:53 AM
What's with this "Doyer" thing? Is there supposed to be some kind of meaning behind it? Is that a real world?
I mean, at least the Yankees and Red Sox fans are clever. The "Red Sux" and "Yank-Mees" are at least real words.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | January 03, 2009 at 01:00 AM
"Shaikin says the Jones restructuring is independent of the Manny Ramirez situation."
also, the thigh bone now functions independent of the hip bone
Posted by: i_spit_hot_fire | January 03, 2009 at 01:01 AM
Why the hell would Andruw Jones agree to do this? Giving up over 10 million dollars? Is there something wrong with him??
Posted by: 123456789 | January 03, 2009 at 01:05 AM
123456789- maybe hes human and feels guilty.....i doubt it though
melky, damon, gardner < andruw jones imo
Posted by: pvilly131 | January 03, 2009 at 01:26 AM
the doyer thing has to do with how many dodger fans refer to their team.
Me: "oh you like the dodgers?"
Dodgers fans: "oh yeah the DOYERS!"
It will not be Doyer-mania this year.
Posted by: GiantsOverDoyersIn09 | January 03, 2009 at 01:45 AM
I think this means los doyers will pay him $5mil this yeah and defer the rest of the money over the next couple of years to free up the doyers payroll NOW. Or mabye Fat drew gets his $5mil now and have that added to whatever he makes this year and subtracted from the 20mil or so they owe him to be the amount they are left to owe. Plus some interest. Either way, he's rich. He obviously would love to be out of LA, but the interest is probably what clinched it for fatdrew.
Posted by: GiantsOverDoyersIn09 | January 03, 2009 at 01:52 AM
I wouldnt touch him with ten foot pole. No thanks.
Posted by: Dynasty26 | January 03, 2009 at 02:21 AM
giantsoverdoyersin09
Yeah, those amazing signings of edgar renteria (big bat) and randy johnson (giants going younger by the day!) are going to propel you guys to the top! Oh, you also signed a pretty good reliever.
I would be incredibly scared if I was Joe Torre.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 02:24 AM
This re-working, if it goes through, will make me...oh so happy.
And what's with all the Giants fans breaking into these forums and calling names and insulting people all of a sudden? I thought this was a forum for intelligent conversation. Not senseless bickering and childish name-calling.
Posted by: MrBlake14 | January 03, 2009 at 02:48 AM
Not since Sammy Sosa and the magical exploding bat has a player fallen so far so fast. I wonder if he'll even make the starting lineup for this year's WBC Netherlands team.
Posted by: paxterj | January 03, 2009 at 03:01 AM
Jones has already pouted regarding wanting to start last season, just how are the Dodgers 1st of all going to get anything for him in a trade and the... Who would be willing to give him a starting job, knowing that he is going to raise a stink if/when he proves he is a serious liability?
Granted, he *might* be a decent backup for his glove (if he sheds maybe 30 lbs) and somehow magically regains his lost bat speed, but... Just WHO is going to give somebody like that a real ML contract in the millions of dollars that knowing full well Bora$$ and Jones are going to be demanding when he is finally released? I would put my money on Varitek having a better offensive season, you can count on him reporting to spring training in shape at least and not whining.
Posted by: johns | January 03, 2009 at 03:02 AM
johns- I have to agree with you. I don't see a team getting him unless its for under 1MM.
And, he ain't getting a starting job anywhere. Period.
Posted by: melonis rex | January 03, 2009 at 03:40 AM
I've NEVER heard of a Dodger fan refer to them as the Doyers. Dem Bums, of course. The Boys of Summer or Boys in Blue, clearly. But never Doyers. And I hope I never meet one, for I may hit him for being so dumb.
As for Andruw Jones, this is amazing. Now we can focus on our REAL need this off-season - trading Juan Pierre.
Posted by: DodgersBruin | January 03, 2009 at 03:42 AM
Its always Angel fans or Giant fans, DodgersBruin. Supposed to be some kind of stupid insult.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 03:52 AM
Ivdown: The only people that I've heard refer to them as the "doyers" are padres fans.
Posted by: williams411 | January 03, 2009 at 06:35 AM
Oh really Williams411? Check out angelswin.com, those guys love to call us them that. Ive got a friend who's an Angels fan, who pretty much only refers to them as that.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 07:34 AM
Ivdown: Oh ok, I originally only heard it from padres fans...but, I guess everyone else is using it now.
Posted by: williams411 | January 03, 2009 at 08:29 AM
Poor Andruw
Posted by: Bravesfansince1990 | January 03, 2009 at 08:32 AM
Actually if the Dodgers eat the bulk of Jones' contract, Matsui for Jones makes a ton of sense.
Matsui can still hit. He is old enough that Torre will trust him and play him.
Dodgers can get Matsui for the difference between his $ and Jones' about $8MM after the restructuring.
Jones might be worthless, but the Yanks clear $8MM and then have the possibility that Jones bounces back, supposedly he has dropped a lot of weight.
Posted by: NJYankeeFan | January 03, 2009 at 08:41 AM
williams411
Sadly enough, it seems to have spread all throughout california teams. Angel fans seem to be the worst, though.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 08:53 AM
I've heard tons of Angels and Giants fans use "Doyers" back when I lived in Cali (which was as recent as last summer). It's mainly the Giants fans.
Posted by: melonis rex | January 03, 2009 at 08:59 AM
Perfect scenario for the Yankees to dump Matsui and get a hungry Jones who wants to prove he can still play. Former gold glove and hr king for chump change and dump a sucky contract, win-win!
Posted by: Randall Adams | January 03, 2009 at 09:28 AM
Andruw wanted out of L.A. This isn't a buyout. It sounds like he will get every last penny of his 22.1 million owed to him this year, but he decided to defer some money and spread it out to help the Dodgers out for a trade or to cut him.
I think its a wise move. He has no future in L.A. This way he gets to go to a team that wants him and he'll potentially make more in the long run after this year. It helps out Boras because he gets another client out of a bad situation AND the Dodgers have more dollars to pay Manny.
Posted by: optionn | January 03, 2009 at 09:32 AM
ouch!!!! what a slap in the face to andruw... as a braves fan, i laugh at this
Posted by: Buzz Meat | January 03, 2009 at 10:59 AM
I assume the Dodgers are paying the whole signing bonus though.
Posted by: melonis rex | January 03, 2009 at 11:34 AM
WHY THE YANKEES DONT MAKE A MOVE ON HIM AND TRADE MATSUI OR RELEASE HIM (WE DONT NEED HIM)...ANDREW JONES IS ONLY 31 AND ALL THIS YANKEES OF'S WILL BE RELEASED IN 2010, SO Y NOT MAKE THIS THE FINAL DEAL IN THIS OFFSEASON. CASHMAN OPEN YOUR BOOKS I HAVENT HEARD A RUMOR ABOUT THE YANKEES SINCE WE GOT TEX.
Posted by: Roberto | January 03, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Reds do noot want Jomes. I can see them going for Kemp, or Kershaw in addition to Jones.
Posted by: GmblngPtchr20 | January 03, 2009 at 11:41 AM
Trading Matsui for Jones would only make sense from the Yanks standpoint if, and only if, we were looking to add a high impact OF/DH type like Man-NY. Otherwise, trading a potentialy healthy Matsui, who is only owed 1/13 mil, for a reclamation project, wouldn't make sense. I actually did propose a bigger package Yanks trade for Jones and others a week ago but it included the Dodgers adding Ivan DeJesus in the deal (seeing DeJesus as a potential Jeter replacemens). But Jones for Matsui helps the Dodgers out, considering they expect nothing from Jones, but doesn't have much upside for the Yanks. Jones, theortically could have a great year, he certainly would have the incentive going into a contract year, but like my Grandmom use to say "People in hell want ice water but I don't see anyone running w/ a bucket of water". Meanwhile, I think the DOdgers will have more "physically solid" players in mind when they use the money saved on Jones. Why give Matsui 13 mil when you can give 10 mil to Dunn, Abreu, Burrel or put it towards Man-NY?
Also, I don't think the Yanks are worried about a salary dump. I think that if Man-NY or some other big bat wasn't on the list of things to add to the 09 team then why not keep everybody? When Matsui is healthy he's good for .285/.370 w/ 25-30 hrs. He is the best hitter we currently have to stick behind Arod and if you look at the big years Arod has had, he's always had Matsui hitting right behind him. We might as well all of the OF and sign Pettitte and give ourselves pitching and positional depth, which is something we've never had.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 11:48 AM
WHY THE YANKEES DONT MAKE A MOVE ON HIM AND TRADE MATSUI OR RELEASE HIM (WE DONT NEED HIM)...ANDREW JONES IS ONLY 31 AND ALL THIS YANKEES OF'S WILL BE RELEASED IN 2010, SO Y NOT MAKE THIS THE FINAL DEAL IN THIS OFFSEASON. CASHMAN OPEN YOUR BOOKS I HAVENT HEARD A RUMOR ABOUT THE YANKEES SINCE WE GOT TEX.
Posted by: Roberto | January 03, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Boo F---ing hoo
Time to play the world's smallest violin for ya, buddy.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 11:54 AM
WHY THE YANKEES DONT MAKE A MOVE ON HIM AND TRADE MATSUI OR RELEASE HIM (WE DONT NEED HIM)...ANDREW JONES IS ONLY 31 AND ALL THIS YANKEES OF'S WILL BE RELEASED IN 2010, SO Y NOT MAKE THIS THE FINAL DEAL IN THIS OFFSEASON. CASHMAN OPEN YOUR BOOKS I HAVENT HEARD A RUMOR ABOUT THE YANKEES SINCE WE GOT TEX.
__________________________
Wow....you're like the 500 lb guy in Vegas who loosens up his belt and makes another trip to the free buffet table. haha. "Open up the books I haven't heard a rumor about the Yankees since we got Tex"?
Here's something I thought about. Seeing as how no one is rushing to sign any of the corner OF's out there, what if the Yanks swooped in and signed Abreu to a 1 or 2 year 10 mil deal and traded Nady to a NL team to restock the farm with a couple of position players? If the Giants get beat out for Man-NY by the Giants maybe Nady to the Dodgers for Delwyn Young (26/OF) and Ching-Lung Hu (25/SS)? Send the young guys to AAA for a year? If they perform well put them in the mix as candidates in 2010? Dodgers start Nady in LF? Let him walk and get a 1st rnd pick?
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 11:59 AM
What would it take for the Reds to get him? Andruw Jones has negative value at this point because of his contract. I'm guessing the Dodgers would have to eat some salary or trade someone along with him. Would what a Reds/Dodgers trade look like?
Posted by: TheCincyKid | January 03, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Reds do noot want Jomes. I can see them going for Kemp, or Kershaw in addition to Jones.
Posted by: GmblngPtchr20 | January 03, 2009 at 11:41 AM
So many things are wrong with this, im not sure how to start.
Who, do you propose, you will trade the Dodgers for Kemp and/or Kershaw plus Jones?
Prospects? Why would we trade very young very high ceiling cf or sp for prospects?
Valuable veterans? Whoops, they all seem to have been traded before the trade deadline last season.
The Reds have got nothing the Dodgers would need or really want by trading Kershaw or Kemp, because what we would want would be a very young outfielder with a very high ceiling who has accomplished less already than Kemp, and a few very good young pitchers with high ceilings.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 12:01 PM
And to add to the previous post, the Yanks could stick Abreu back in the #3 spot and move Tex to the #5 spot to add protection to Arod. I don't propose the Yanks go after Man-NY but people seem to forget that we still haven't added protection for Arod. Signing Abreu would cost a lot less than Man-NY and at least we know he can handle the #3 spot and Tex shouldn't have any problems at #5.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 12:02 PM
What would it take for the Reds to get him? Andruw Jones has negative value at this point because of his contract. I'm guessing the Dodgers would have to eat some salary or trade someone along with him. Would what a Reds/Dodgers trade look like?
Posted by: TheCincyKid | January 03, 2009 at 12:00 PM
What im wondering is if the Dodgers trade Jones with the new contract, will the new team have to pay the rest of the contract, the deffered payments? If the team that trades for Jones just picks up the few mill he is owed in 09, his value should go up a bit.
I just dont think Jones could have a season like 08 again. I mean seriousy, he dropped off the charts. I could see 20 homeruns if he gets 150 games, which wont be great, but it could be a bit of pop for 5 mill (or maybe more just deffered).
If the Dodgers were to trade someone with Jones (more likely than giving money for the Dodgers), I doubt its anyone with a lot of talent or a high ceiling, and i would highly doubt a AAA or AA player would go.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 12:06 PM
"Hello? Yes, this Omar Minaya..."
"Am I interested in Andruw who???"
Click
Posted by: Desiree' | January 03, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Yanksfansince78
To your trade proposal, I would be all for it, I just really think we wont lose out on Manny. Young has some good potential, as you can see by his 07 minor league numbers, he just really hasnt been given the chance to play, but has been blocked by 2 good outfielders plus 2 huge contracts, then manny. Hu is a very good defensive player, but hasnt been able to hit major league pitching as of yet.
Posted by: Ivdown | January 03, 2009 at 12:09 PM
A pretty fair deal from both sides. Jones' earns his freedom by deferring his salary interest free. He'll still get paid ever dollar, but obviously will end up worse off from a NPV sense.
Dodgers fans who think this is a precursor to a trade are delusional. This is a precursor to a release; there still will be no interest in Jones on anything other then a league minimum contract given how awful he was last year.
Posted by: jcmurder | January 03, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Ivdown: But aside from Man-NY being an option do you think the Dodgers would see that as a fair trade? 1 year of Nady for Young and Hu I think is fair?
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 12:22 PM
Ivdown, the Dodgers themselves eat the entirety of the deferred payments under any circumstance; if he is released and picked up by any other team, the new team pays as little as $400K of 2009 salary, and Dodgers pick up the remaining 4.6MM, hence the Dodgers' efforts to ATTEMPT to trade him (good luck).
Posted by: abcrazy4dodgers | January 03, 2009 at 12:25 PM
I can tell you in the very hypothetical (and I do mean, HYPOTHETICAL in the way that Bob Slidell uses it in "Office Space") that Andruw actually gets traded, that the Dodgers would not want salary or a Hideki Matsui in return.
Posted by: abcrazy4dodgers | January 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Hu is now a trade chip, hard to think why not with Raffy locked up Ivan DeJesus in wait.
Posted by: abcrazy4dodgers | January 03, 2009 at 12:35 PM
So is it safe to say that if someone offered the Dodgers a fringe AAA project they would be happy to make that deal?
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 12:37 PM
Nope. I think Hu can be part of a SP deal, not anything involving position players. I don't think he'd go as part of anything involving a "fringe AAA" player as the centerpiece either, that'd fit under classification of "why bother?" from LA's standpoint.
Posted by: abcrazy4dodgers | January 03, 2009 at 12:39 PM
No I'm sorry that comment about the Dodgers accepting a fringe AAA project was in reference to Andru Jones, not Hu. MY bad for not making that more obvious.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 12:41 PM
I think LA would take the last player drafted that barely got signed from any team, if aquiring team wants to pay Jones the $5MM. Hardly envision any team making a trade for him.
Posted by: abcrazy4dodgers | January 03, 2009 at 12:44 PM
Andru JOnes, motivated by a need to re-establish his value, making league minimum would be attractive to a few teams that may not be "contenders". If I were one of them, and the DOdgers were facing a "pay him and trade him and get a fringe prospect" vs ""pay him, release him and get nothing", I might offer up a AAA fringe guy to avoid there being options for him to choose from. No team is going to assume any of the 5 mil he's owed right? So insted of the Dodgers getting nothing they would be better off getting a fring prospect rather than nothing at all, I would think. A team like th M's, who have nothing in the OF, might be willing to take a chance on Jones @ 400k. If he hits anything like he did before he would make an interesting story on a team that looks destined to finish last again. Would be a great story if he did rebound. Meanwhile, if he fails they can just release him and only be out 400k.
Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | January 03, 2009 at 12:51 PM