Taking Stock Of The Pirates

"Giving Bronson Arroyo up on waivers only to have him return to Pittsburgh as an All-Star for the Red Sox"

He was with the Reds in 2006.

They may be on the right track finally, but they are at the very beginning of it.

The Pirates have made some progress. McCutchen and Alvarez are potential offensive cornerstones. But they have still done a poor job of getting talent back in their trades. They gave up Nady, Marte and Bay and the pieces they got back in LaRoche, Hansen, Tabata and Moss don't look like long-term solutions for them. And they have a real dearth of high-ceiling pitching prospects, and Maholm and Snell aren't that good. Singing Sano, even if he's great, doesn't do that much for them since shortstop is the only position they have good prospect depth at already, with Friday, D'Arnaud and Cunningham.

icedrake523:

Thanks

"The Pirates have made some progress. McCutchen and Alvarez are potential offensive cornerstones. But they have still done a poor job of getting talent back in their trades. They gave up Nady, Marte and Bay and the pieces they got back in LaRoche, Hansen, Tabata and Moss don't look like long-term solutions for them. And they have a real dearth of high-ceiling pitching prospects, and Maholm and Snell aren't that good. Singing Sano, even if he's great, doesn't do that much for them since shortstop is the only position they have good prospect depth at already, with Friday, D'Arnaud and Cunningham."

I think the Nady Marte trade actually went very well for them. Ohlendorf is pitching well this year, Tabata will be a good player he is still very young, and McCutchen is putting up decent numbers in Triple A not great but decent.

As for the Bay trade they probably could have gotten more but at this point depth is more important to this organization so having 4 prospects that can contriute to the major league team is more important than having one great prospect.

Another thing to notice is the little moves the new regime is making such as picking up Delwyn Young signing Hinske. Last year getting Michaels and signing Mientkewicz.

I think they are on the right track and hope they continue to invest in the draft and in foreign markets. I am hoping that Ackley will fall to us this year in the draft but I doubt it if not White would be nice. And signing Santo would be huge for us as it would lead to more signings in Latin America. One last thing I would argue that outfield is where the Pirates are deepest in the minor leagues.

scribbletone

about Drafing Meyers, ok they take someone who they can sign for slot (an old Pirates move) but what happens if they fail to sign Sano then? I just dont know how anyone can keep faith in this team, They traded BAY NADY AND MARTE and maybe got 1 maybe 1 prospect who has been compared to Manny in both his bat but also his attitude and look what BAY is doing, he is doing exactly what he did he here, its just now he actually has someone on base to drive in, im sorry but the pirates didnt get anything even close to what bay is worth in return

"The Pirates are considering drafting Wil Meyers with the fourth pick in the draft, and then signing him at slot or slightly below slot.

The money saved by signing Meyers would then be used to make a massive offer to Sano."

I'm not in Pittsburgh, but I have to say that sounds like an absolutely horrible plan.

Forgetting for a moment that the Pirates have a lot of quality shortstop prospects, consider this: you have a draft which is very deep in starting pitching and not much else, although there are a good group of catching prospects, but not an elite one. And you have the fourth pick. Do you: take a premier pitcher, which you desperately need, and plan on one of the good looking catchers to still be around when you pick at 2:4? Or do you wildly overdraft a catcher and ensure that you will miss out on the best pitching to sign a sixteen year old kid?

I don't see any way that White/Crow/Gibson/Matzek plus a catcher at 2:4 isn't a better combination for the Pirates than Meyers and Sano.

I have faith in the new regime but part of the reason is because I'm a die-hard Bucs fan.

I wasn't a big fan of the Bay trade at all. I understood that he needed to be traded, but I wasn't impressed with what we got back. Brandon Moss and Andy LaRoche are looking better this year, and Andy may be a fixture on the team, but I'm not high on the pitching. Why trade for a guy with TJ surgery and a wild relief pitcher, you can find someone like Hansen on the waiver wire.

Also, the team still needs a lot more prospects. Forget major league ready guys, build for the next few seasons and draft/trade for guy who have a lot of potential. That was never done in the past, as we drafted a bunch of average joe pitchers. There is no one resembling an ace on our team or in the minor leagues. Maholm and Duke are solid this year, but neither have the stuff to dominate at the top of a rotation. Each are #3 starters at best IMO.

I like the hitters on the team, and the outfield is really looking like a strength again. If one or two outfielders can be traded for some pitching or infield prospects, that would be great. We also need a few prospects with real power, because no one on the team has 30 HR potential.

I think within 2 seasons, they will be a competitive team, but I can't say when they will be in the playoffs.

"I'm not in Pittsburgh, but I have to say that sounds like an absolutely horrible plan."

Just to clarify, that Myers scenario was a rumor brought up by Keith Law in his last chat. It's not my idea.

If I was running the Pirates, I would just draft and sign a stud pitcher like Miller, Paxton, Crow, Matzek, Scheppers, or White.

If they can still afford Sano after making that pick, then great, but either way pitching really needs to be the priority for that organization.

They have good position pieces in McLouth, Andy LaRoche, Alvarez, Doumit, McCutchen, Tabata, Walker, Grossman and Moss.

"Aramis Ramirez for Jody Gerut and Bobby Hill."

The deal was actually Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton to Chicago in exchange for Jose Hernandez, Bobby Hill and some random minor league pitcher that didn't pan out.

The Pirates need to send Adam Laroche and McClouth to Atlanta and get Morton, Redmond, Kotchman, Logan, Blanco, and B. Jones.

Better yet how about Nyjer Morgan for Morton? Oh they're the Pirates, they'll take anything we offer! Nice try, they won't trade McLouth for your 2nd or 3rd best pitching prospect and spare parts.

The Pirates need more talent. They need to pick the best players available and pay slot/above slot. The need to sign high impact international FAs like Sano. They need to be aggresive at the trade deadline and bring in young talent by trading off players they don't view as long-term fits. They need to fix Tom Gorzalanny.

Poor Pirates. I remember I used to be afraid to death of facing that team, knowing they would probably kick our rears.

However, they have made some solid moves in recent years, and are an interesting team to keep an eye on at this point at least. Really afraid of them now having Andy LaRoche. Has anyone else noticed that after he started the season going 0-16 in the first 7 games, he has hit .319/.388/.460 in his last 33? Probably could have gotten more for Bay, but LaRoche might be a big star for them for a long time.

The only trade that comes to mind that Littlefield actually did well in was trading Brian Giles for Jason Bay and Oliver Perez. The Ollie that lead the league in K/9 once upon a time and wasn't awful, mind you.

Then flipping Ollie for Nady was pretty good.

Let's not rehash Littlefield, shall we. This is the equivalent of Lions fans and Matt Millen.

What the Pirates should do moving forward? In order of priority.

1. Best player available with 4th overall pick.

2. If possible after that, sign Sano.

3. Trade Adam LaRoche. I take the best package offered, even if the draft picks might theoretically be worth more. Maybe eat salary to get a better deal, ala the Indians and Casey Blake. LaRoche is the type that *will* almost certainly accept arbitration in this market, so take what you can get at the deadline.

""The Pirates need to send Adam Laroche and McClouth to Atlanta and get Morton, Redmond, Kotchman, Logan, Blanco, and B. Jones.""

LOL no. McLouth should only be traded if the Pirates are getting at least two top starting pitching prospects, plus other pieces.

That means any McLouth deal starts with Hanson and one of Locke or Rohrborough.