A Penny For Phillies' Staff?

"Realistically, none of these pitchers is likely to pitch better than Antonio Bastardo, who was dominant at Double-A Reading."

And he was in his first MLB start too, albeit against one of the worst offensive teams in baseball.

Donald for Penny = Not. Happening.

Call up Carrasco. See what Bastardo can do over multiple starts. Or actually deal prospects for a better pitcher.

Howard nice job on that Ramon Castro article the other day.

Donald is more likely to stick at SS than most SS prospects actually. I saw him play there and he'd be better than a few ML shortstops defensively.

And about Penny...yeah his May was 'ok', but again, go and look at what a guy like Pavano did in May. And Pavano cost $4M less in guaranteed money than Penny.

Donald may be overrated (I think he is a bit too), but I still wouldn't trade him for Penny.

Heck, wait for Pedro Martinez to get ready to pitch. He'd cost the same in money as Penny and probably pitch just as well (and no prospects lost either).

I think the phillies have better options available than this. It's nice that Boston would like to get a guy like Donald for him...it's just not very likely.

Penny looks pretty damn filthy tonight against the Rangers.

Lugo's miserable defense causes Penny to lose his gem. Unbeliveable how the Red Sox win games with Lugo and Green at short.

If this happens, the Phillies are doomed until they dump Amaro.

How do the Red Sox have the audacity to ask for such a return? Jesus.

Let's not get too excited about Jason Donald. His breakout season at AA is almost identical to future utility man Jed Lowrie's breakout season at AA (both at age 23). At least Lowrie is a switch hitter.

These guys are part time ML players. I'm not saying the Phils should trade him for Penny (do they need Penny?), but he is a throw in player in a deal for a better pitcher. No team will look at this guy as the solution at SS.

The Phils should go with their young pitchers or aquire a frontline pitcher (not sure they can put together a good enough package)rather than settle for schlock like Penny or Pavano.

The Red Sox should stick Penny in the bullpen. I have felt that he would end up there for years (with his quality fastball and health problems/fat ass tell me that is where he is better suited to play).

bat the pitcher 8th,

you sure jinxed the hell out of him. can't wait to watch the game later on mlb.com from the radio feed he sounded eminantly hittable after the first time or two through the bullpen. and if lugo is as bad as it seems it should be US holding you over the barrel. Its a shame Donald has regressed otherwise we could have asked for the world or have even justified a Donald and Marson for Bucholz or another one of your young pitchers. oh well. we'll keep ours, you definitely can keep yours.

Only big market teams have the luxury of spreading lies and rumors through the media such as this one. Boston has got to be kidding, acting like they can get something good for Penny. Give me a break.

Posted by: BeanoCook | June 05, 2009 at 08:10 PM

Penny is a contributing (albiet not alot) member of a contender. The Sox aren't seller's, and they don't have to trade him for financial reasons. I think they're in an excellent position to ask whatever they want for him. To expect to get it isn't reasonable, but they can always lower their asking price.

its amazing to me how some of you seem to think you know more about the value of players like Brad Penny than the GM's who actually do hours of research and who's jobs depend on these decisions.

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A Penny for Phillies' Staff?
By Howard Megdal [June 5, 2009 at 6:15pm CST]
MLB.com's Todd Zolecki is reporting that the Phillies have been following Boston's Brad Penny, and have been told the price for Penny is Jason Donald. Buster Olney had reported this as well.

Donald has struggled early, but it is hard to believe the Phillies would make such a deal. If they see the guy who pitched 208 innings of 3.03 ERA baseball for the Dodgers in 2007, maybe. But Penny is at 6.04 ERA in 149 innings ever since, and it is hard to see Penny as enough of an upgrade to warrant dealing one of your best middle infield prospects.

Zolecki also reports that the Phils don't seem to view Tom Glavine or Vicente Padilla as options. Hard to believe the Phils would take on another Jamie Moyer-like pitcher in Glavine, or deal for a pitcher, Padilla, they dealt away for very little a few years ago.

Realistically, none of these pitchers is likely to pitch better than Antonio Bastardo, who was dominant at Double-A Reading.

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Full Story | Comments (24) | Categories: Antonio Bastardo | Boston Red Sox | Brad Penny | Jason Donald | Philadelphia Phillies | Tom Glavine | Vicente Padilla
Comments
"Realistically, none of these pitchers is likely to pitch better than Antonio Bastardo, who was dominant at Double-A Reading."

And he was in his first MLB start too, albeit against one of the worst offensive teams in baseball.

Posted by: mford | June 05, 2009 at 06:20 PM

Yeah, no way would I trade Donald for half a year of Penny.

If I were the FIRST PLACE Phillies I'd just hang tight for a while and see what teams fall out of races. Heck, Donald for Carl Pavano makes way more sense right now than for Penny. At least Pavano has been getting stronger (was 5-1 with an ERA under 4 in May).

Not saying trade Donald for Pavano, just pointing out how ridiculous this trade idea is.

Posted by: Hermie13 | June 05, 2009 at 06:22 PM

Wow, the Red Sox are really trying to push it.

They're doing more diservice by keeping Penny and his 5.5 ERA. Opponents are batting .310 off him. He's 5-1 but we'll see if he can keep that up.

Posted by: strikethree | June 05, 2009 at 06:30 PM

Donald for Penny = Not. Happening.

Call up Carrasco. See what Bastardo can do over multiple starts. Or actually deal prospects for a better pitcher.

Posted by: melonis rex | June 05, 2009 at 06:32 PM

In 36 2/3 innings last month, Penny posted a 4.17 ERA with 52 baserunners, 28 Ks and 6 walks. That's a whip of around 1.4, decent k/9 of around 7.5 and a K:BB of almost 5 (those are just rough estimates in my head, I'm too lazy to break out the calculator). Since he settled in for the season he's absolutely been serviceable...

The REAL reason the Phils shouldn't trade for him is that he has a GB:FB ratio of 41:83 over that same stretch. He'd get rocked in Citizen's Bank Park.

Oh and Jason Donald is overrated... His "break out" season was accompanied by a BABIP of 370. He's also not likely to stick at short. He's more valuable than Penny, but his value has been overstated by most of the people in these Penny topics.

Posted by: gfulla | June 05, 2009 at 06:34 PM

Howard nice job on that Ramon Castro article the other day.

Posted by: nrmax88 | June 05, 2009 at 06:46 PM

And his career BABIP is .350, that's just the kind of hitter he's been in the minors. And I'm sure you know as well as I do that BABIP isn't as great for evaluating "luck" with hitters as it is with pitchers. Donald may be due for a bit of regression, but he's still a valuable chip.

I'm glad the Phils will at least give Happ and Bastardo a chance to make it work before signing or trading for a washed-up vet.

Posted by: thephrontiersman | June 05, 2009 at 06:46 PM

Donald is more likely to stick at SS than most SS prospects actually. I saw him play there and he'd be better than a few ML shortstops defensively.

And about Penny...yeah his May was 'ok', but again, go and look at what a guy like Pavano did in May. And Pavano cost $4M less in guaranteed money than Penny.

Donald may be overrated (I think he is a bit too), but I still wouldn't trade him for Penny.

Heck, wait for Pedro Martinez to get ready to pitch. He'd cost the same in money as Penny and probably pitch just as well (and no prospects lost either).

Posted by: Hermie13 | June 05, 2009 at 06:47 PM

"The REAL reason the Phils shouldn't trade for him is that he has a GB:FB ratio of 41:83 over that same stretch. He'd get rocked in Citizen's Bank Park."

FYI: Ellsbury tied the MLB record for putouts in CF in his last Fenway start with *12* in only 6+ innings of work.. That shows you how many fly balls Penny has been letting up.

Penny almost has to be either moved, or sent to the Pen when Smotz returns, but yes, he has vastly improved since his 1st 2 games. He's been doing the *tightrope pitching like Dice-K, that is, letting runners get on and somehow wiggling his way out, but it is working.

Posted by: johns | June 05, 2009 at 06:48 PM

I think the phillies have better options available than this. It's nice that Boston would like to get a guy like Donald for him...it's just not very likely.

Posted by: 86 Mets | June 05, 2009 at 06:54 PM

stop the madness now!!

Why would we give away Donald that easily. Yes he's struggling now but he had almost a .900 OPS last year and a solid AFL season. He'll come around and be an adequate to solid shortstop while Penny will get crushed in CBP. Don't do it Ruben. Give the kids a chance. We don't need to be rushed into this. I don't care if Penny breaks Johnny Van Dermeer's record I don't want to see him.

Its the epitome of sell low (donald) and buy high (Penny). If anything the phils should have the Sox over a barrel because they need a solid shortstop for the future more than we need a solid starter. Don't let THeo dupe you Ruben.

Posted by: philsWSchamps | June 05, 2009 at 07:02 PM

Penny looks pretty damn filthy tonight against the Rangers.

Posted by: bat the pitcher 8th | June 05, 2009 at 07:19 PM

"And his career BABIP is .350, that's just the kind of hitter he's been in the minors."

I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and you're absolutely right. I just double checked it. I could have sworn last year was his first season with a babip over 320, but his 2007 and 2008 both had babips of around 370. That does improve my opinion of him a fair bit.

Posted by: gfulla | June 05, 2009 at 07:29 PM

Lugo's miserable defense causes Penny to lose his gem. Unbeliveable how the Red Sox win games with Lugo and Green at short.

You are being very kind to Lugo by describing his defense as "miserable". Big salary or no...this guy deserves to ride the pine. Penny pitches with a lot of emotion...and Lugo screwed him on a ground ball he let go by under his glove. Penny gets hot, loses focus, and serves up a lob shot for Kinsler to hit, for three runs, over the green monster
....game all but over.

Until that hit, Penny was sharp against a very good hitting team...

Theo, ship Lugo to Pawtucket, tomorrow..

its amazing to me how some of you seem to think you know more about the value of players like Brad Penny than the GM's who actually do hours of research and who's jobs depend on these decisions.

Posted by: bobbydoerr | June 05, 2009 at 08:47 PM

And what exactly did you expect the discussion to be about at a site dedicated to transaction rumors?

The A's now have an excess of pitching with Vin Mazzaro now in the rotation. The A's rotation is pretty much set right now with;
LHP Dallas Braden
RHP Trevor Cahill
LHP Brett Anderson
LHP Josh Outman
RHP Vin Mazzaro

That leaves LHP Dana Eveland, RHP Sean Gallagher and LHP Gio Gonzalez with out rotation spots. It also makes it puzzling what will happen if/when Justin Duchscherer comes back.

I have a feeling that the A's will hold on to Gio Gonzalez, and the Phils already had him before anyways.

But would the Phillies be interested in Eveland or Gallagher?

I am not sure if the A's would ask for Donalds, or if they would try to go after someone else, probably in the low minors, though Donalds would fill a big hole with the club as at least a temporary solution to the hole at 3B.

"Penny looks pretty damn filthy tonight against the Rangers."

What happened? Did he slip in the mud?

@zonis

Eveland is the only one of that group that is even going to reach arbitration next year, trading any of those guys wouldn't be very beane-like. There's not much experience and alot of questions in that rotation...I'd hardly say it's a pitching surplus. If Oakland trades off a pitcher, it will be Duke. Other than that, I'd expect to see position players go.

nrmax,

nice!!! slipped in the mud. listen the red sox fans (that's you bobby doerr) are going to try to convince everyone that Penny is the Penny of 2003 but he's not. He's filler so we're not going to give up anything of value, even potential value that may not amount to anything. instead of looking for AAA talent, look a bit lower. and look out Moyer had a SOLID night tonight for the second game in a row. I'll take his 7IP 2R performance over whatever Penny can give us, plus we don't have to give you anything.

Smoltz is back in a week or two. Buchholz is knocking down the door. The bullpen is the best in the MLB. There's no room at the inn for Penny. The Sox are going to be forced to deal him or dump him. That can't be good for his trade value.

Posted by: GoPhils | June 05, 2009 at 11:51 PM

It doesn't help the Phills, as he'd never make it too them via waivers. They can keep Smoltz down for a little while longer, And I'd guess Bucholtz still probably has to wait out Smoltz at this point. There's really not that much rush to move him.

No chance we trade for Penny and no chance we deal a prospect like Donald for that fat, garbage pitcher. Unless we can get a very very good #3 pitcher, we're not going to settle for trash. The young kids will produce better than them.

"Penny is putting up Livan Hernandez stats, if you need a 5 starter Penny is the answer."

So you would move a valuable asset for Livan Hernandez? Please do! ;-)

When did Jason Donald become this elite untouchable uber-prospect?

I’m not saying Philly should leap at that deal, especially if they have higher goals for a new SP, but the reality is Donald on his own won’t get you more than Brad Penny. And if you want a better SP, Donald won't be the centerpiece of that deal, either.

Sure, Donald was ranked #69 by Baseball America. But that does not mean he is the 69th best minor leaguer. It means he is the 69th most likely to make a contribution among all the minor leaguers that meet BA’s criteria. The biggest part of that difference is the level of contribution (aka “ceiling”) is only a factor, and not the sole basis for the ranking.

That ranking is an honor he shares with Howard Farmer, Duane Singleton, Melvin Nieves, Marc Kroon, Doug Million, Abraham Nunez, Brent (Brent, not Brett) Butler, Jesus Colome, Ricardo Rodriguez, Bobby Basham, Brandon League, and Brad Lincoln. The overwhelming majority most people have never heard of. (To be fair, some success stories like Vernon Wells, Carl Everett, and Mike Timlin were all also ranked #69 by Baseball America at one time or another.) Typically, only the top 30 on the list should be considered as any sort of elite talent to be watched. And even then, there will be a good share of busts.

True story: I once bought a pair of sneakers from a guy who had been ranked #32 by Baseball America. Think about that. Nice enough guy, and very into his war stories. Never really talked about his ranking or even explicitly mentioned being a former MLB player. Instead he worked the phrase “When I played at Three Rivers” into every sentence. I looked him up on BR, and he barely played at all in MLB, but hey, unlike me, he at least got to live the dream for a little while. Anyway – my point was, #32 to selling sneakers.

Clearly, Philly is aiming higher, which is why Antonio Bstrdo was called up instead of Carrasco. He’s probably being showcased for a more reliable and tried starter, such as Bedard.

"What happened? Did he slip in the mud?"

Good one Max, better though, it went downhill after he fell into one of Lugo's "mud's" that is, Lugo let another ball get by him and then all of a sudden 4 runs score before you can blink an eye almost, but then baseball is baseball. Penny should have kept his concentration and not worried about having a useless SS, yet it is hard.

i am SO SICK of comments like Big ELLER. we don't want him. Blame it on lugo all you want but did Lugo throw the HR ball last night to Kinsler? He's a 5 pitcher at best.

"i am SO SICK of comments like Big ELLER."

I agree. You could also take out his few good starts then you are looking at a guy who should be DFA.