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Odds And Ends: Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [June 18, 2009 at 1:18pm CST]

Comments

"How would this season would look if Mark Teixeira had landed in Boston?"

The Red Sox would have been a completely different team. With $20 million+ going towards Teixeira, the team wouldn't have been able to acquire Penny, Smoltz and Saito. The pitching depth would be absent. Also, the acquisition of Teixeira would have forced the trade of Lowell, who hasn't been bad (.294 average / 10 HRs / 41 RBI).

Posted by: midtown | June 18, 2009 at 01:26 PM
==========
They would also have Buchholz in the rotation and coupled with Teixeiras presence in the lineup probably be up by about 8 games in the AL east

Posted by: CosaOneNYC | June 18, 2009 at 01:44 PM

There is no question - the Sox would have been a much better team with Tex. They would be, hands down, the best team in baseball.

Posted by: bjsguess | June 18, 2009 at 01:49 PM

I can't believe someone was trying to make the case the Red Sox would be better off without Teixeira...

Posted by: B3NG4L | June 18, 2009 at 01:51 PM

"The Red Sox would have been a completely different team. With $20 million+ going towards Teixeira, the team wouldn't have been able to acquire Penny, Smoltz and Saito."

You are aware the Red Sox are the most financially flexible team in baseball, right? If they really wanted those players, they would have gotten them, too.

I agree about the Lowell part though. Plus if they had Tex signed for many years, that would have blocked Lars Anderson from coming in in the future. Also, the Sox would lose a top draft pick and they way Theo and gang have been drafting lately, that could mean a loss of a potential stud.

Posted by: Umair | June 18, 2009 at 01:59 PM

the* lol

Posted by: Umair | June 18, 2009 at 01:59 PM

The Red Sox would be a better team and easily the best team in baseball. However, a lot of that would be being a MUCH more dominant team than the Yankees. Weakening your competition strengthens you. The Yanks *needed* Teixeira much, much more than the Red Sox did.

The team that would have stood to improve the most had they signed Teix was the Angels. Theyre a very good team, but long term, having that offensive and defensive force in the lineup would go a far way.

Posted by: melonis rex | June 18, 2009 at 02:02 PM

I agree with rex...The Angels needed Tex the most and are hurting without a solid contributor in their lineup. I for one did not realize just how good Teixeira was until watching him everyday. Taking everything into account he is easily one of the 10 best players in the game right now. If he isn't doing something with his bat he is making ridiculous plays at first. The stats (which are pretty amazing) don't show everything Tex does. This is the first long term contract the Yankees have made that I actually feel very very comfortable with.

As for the Penny vs. Burnett argument, its complete bias. There was no mention that Penny spent his entire career in 2 of the weakest divisions in baseball (NL east and NL west) while Burnett has spent the last 4 seasons in the toughest division in baseball. It does not say how Burnett is a notorious slow starter and strong finisher. It does not say how Burnett is the Yanks #2 while Penny is their #5. It does not say how Burnett has gotten progressively better of the course of his career while Penny has fallen off. It does not say how the Sox bullpen has picked up Penny time after time this year while the Yankees bullpen has done nothing for Burnett. Shocker somebody from Boston wrote that article.

Posted by: yanks09 | June 18, 2009 at 02:16 PM

To be fair, the Red Sox would be a better team but would it really be worth 8/180, a fairly large risk even for a player as good as Tex?

Their current first baseman is on pace for a 6.5-7.5 WAR season. Their current third baseman, who would've moved off the position for the aforementioned first baseman, is still on pace for a 2.5-3.5 WAR season in spite of his defensive metrics being far below where they generally are.

I really think that when you consider how they spent that money in different ways (Smoltz, Penny, Saito, Baldelli, Green, Varitek), you really can't be disatisfied with how the team looks in spite of not landing Tex.

The bigger problem is the fact that the Yankees have an absolutely scary lineup with Jeter, Damon, Rodriguez, Texieira, Cano, Posada, Swisher and Matsui.

Posted by: scribbletone | June 18, 2009 at 02:40 PM

"The bigger problem is the fact that the Yankees have an absolutely scary lineup with Jeter, Damon, Rodriguez, Texieira, Cano, Posada, Swisher and Matsui."

And a ton of lineup flexibility next year with Damon, Matsui, and Nady coming off the books, Swisher being a very versatile player (hell, he's a bad defensive CF but his bat more than makes up for that). I don't think they go after Holliday in FA, but he'd fit in. The Yanks are f'n scary.

Posted by: melonis rex | June 18, 2009 at 02:49 PM

By signing Tex they would have lost that late first round pick. However, they could have:

1. Moved Lowell and collected whatever value they would have received via a trade. Also would paid for a large chunk of Tex's contract for the next 2 years.

2. Kept Lowell and shifted Ortiz's AB's over to Lowell.

3. Been able to trade Lars Anderson for a premiere shortstop.

As others have mentioned - the biggest reason to sign him was to prevent the Yanks from getting him.

Posted by: bjsguess | June 18, 2009 at 03:01 PM

Yeah, I don't think that Holliday fits in either.

Unless he'll take something like 3/45 or 4/60, then I'm not sure that giving him a monster contract is a good idea with all the money going to Tex, A-Rod, Burnett and Sabathia.

Bringing back Damon on a one year deal wouldn't be the worst idea, and honestly I wouldn't write off Manny Ramirez either, considering how unlikely it is that his option is exercised now.

Posted by: scribbletone | June 18, 2009 at 03:02 PM

How would this season look if Mark Teixeira had landed in Boston? Seriously? Is this the biggest concern in Boston? Well that would have meant the Red Sox trade Lowell, probably for the pitching they supposedly wouldn't have been able to afford. According to Fangraphs, Teixeira has been worth 1.9 wins more than Lowell, so at best the Red Sox have two more wins. But you can't just swap win values like that. There's that whole Butterfly Effect thing.

Another way of looking at it is how would the Yankees look? Having lost out on Teixeira, they may have perused other options, like trading for Adrian Gonzalez for example.

Posted by: scatterbrian | June 18, 2009 at 03:16 PM

"and honestly I wouldn't write off Manny Ramirez either, considering how unlikely it is that his option is exercised now."

His option is a player option, not a club option. In other words, he's almost certain to exercise it and stay a Dodger.

Posted by: melonis rex | June 18, 2009 at 04:19 PM

"His option is a player option, not a club option. In other words, he's almost certain to exercise it and stay a Dodger."

Right, got that mixed around in my head. Player option, he's not going to turn down $20M after a 50 game PED suspension, so you're right, he'll be a Dodger.

My mistake, I got that option backwards in my head.

Posted by: scribbletone | June 18, 2009 at 04:26 PM

Holliday absolutely fits in with the 2010 Yankees. When was the last time the Yankees did not sign a player due to financial concerns?

Posted by: scatterbrian | June 18, 2009 at 05:21 PM

"I think it's safe to say that you will ALWAYS have payroll flexibility when you're willing to spend $225 million per year on salary."

But it gets harder when you have guys under contract for $275M, $180M, $160M and $82.5M.

Posted by: scribbletone | June 18, 2009 at 05:35 PM

"But it gets harder when you have guys under contract for $275M, $180M, $160M and $82.5M."

Those contracts are spread out over years. With the YES Network and New Yankee Stadium and worldwide merchandising, they will not be hurting for money.

Besides, for all the ink spilled over the amount of money the Yankees committed to this past off-season, their payroll is lower than it was last season.

Posted by: scatterbrian | June 18, 2009 at 06:27 PM

Never said they would be.

But every time you sign a guy to an extremely lucrative contract like that, it makes you tighten the purse strings a little more. You can't just keep handing out big money, multi-year deals, even if you are the Yankees.

The Yankees are in a perfectly fine position long term though, considering how much money they shedded last season and how much they will this season between Damon, Nady, Pettitte, and Matsui.

Posted by: scribbletone | June 18, 2009 at 06:34 PM

Holliday absolutely fits in with the 2010 Yankees. When was the last time the Yankees did not sign a player due to financial concerns?

Posted by: scatterbrian | June 18, 2009 at 05:21 PM

----------

It's not so much "can they afford" but certainly is he worth the inflated value Boras is going to place on him? No.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | June 18, 2009 at 06:56 PM

I think the Yanks will find much better and cost efficient ways of improving the team vs signing the next big, shiny FA.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | June 18, 2009 at 07:01 PM

you guys are all crazy
id take lowell,penny, smoltz,baldelli, and saito over one player anyday

except maybe pujols and mauer

Posted by: Redsoxrdabomb | June 18, 2009 at 08:15 PM

"1. Moved Lowell and collected whatever value they would have received via a trade. Also would paid for a large chunk of Tex's contract for the next 2 years.

2. Kept Lowell and shifted Ortiz's AB's over to Lowell.

3. Been able to trade Lars Anderson for a premiere shortstop."

All moot points:

1. Lowell was coming off of major hip surgery and is thirty-five. The Sox would've been lucky to get a bag of balls for Lowell this past offseason.

2. Could've been done, but it likely wasn't on the table. People expected Ortiz to drop off a bit this year, but not this severely and he was still expected to probably bat better than Lowell would.

3. Coming into the season, we had an immovable $9 million dollar short stop and a cost controlled, versatile young guy. Without precognition concerning Lowrie's injury, the Sox weren't trading for a shortstop short of Hanley Ramirez, who was unavailable.

As great as Teixeira would've made the Sox lineup, logistically speaking, it would've been an absolute nightmare to balance the roster to slot him in. I would've gone to the trouble in a heartbeat personally, but I'm content with the way things are.

I will definitely agree with you on the last point, though. The absolute worst thing that could happen for them was for the Yankees to get him.

Posted by: 0bsessions | June 18, 2009 at 08:47 PM

" I think the Yanks will find much better and cost efficient ways of improving the team vs signing the next big, shiny FA. "

They never do.... you haven't followed the Yankees much. "Cost efficient and better" ?? When did the Yankees switch ownership?

Posted by: baseball09 | June 18, 2009 at 07:39 PM
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Uhhh, yeah actually I have. My point is that Holliday doesn't deserve a mega deal and has yet to show that he is still a premier talent. Prior to this season he was a .320/.400 hitter w/ 30 hr and 20 sb capability. Most felt he was in line for 8/150 mil. He just hasn't showed he's that player of late. Yes, he's hit well in the last month and a half but still nothing exceptional. Can you really say that as of today he's that much better of a hitter than Nick Swisher?

.275/.374 w/ 11 dbls and 8 hrs
and a 30/31 bb/ko ratio.
vs

.239/.383 w/ 14 dbls and 12 hrs and a 46/56 bb/ko ratio.

Holliday gets a slight edge because he's a better contact hitter but Swisher makes $7 mil while Holliday is sure to ask for somewhere around $15-$20 mil. He just isn;t worth the long term committment at the moment. I could careless how much money the Yanks have you don't hand out big contract just because you can.
If Holliday finishes somewhere around .290/.370 w/ 25 hrs and plays stellar defense and is willing to take a modest 3/45 deal then sure, if not then we pass.

As for using the money more efficiently the Yanks can field a good OF of:

Swisher in LF, Austin Jackson in CF and Cabrera in RF. They can also bring back Damon on a 1 year deal at 1/10 or move Jeter to left. Either way they have options and as long as Holliday puts up less than super star numbers the choice of NOT signing him becomes easier and more justifiable to make.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | June 18, 2009 at 08:56 PM

The Sox being a great team and the Yankees having a scary lineup are not mutually exclusive. The Yankees do have a very powerful starting lineup.

Posted by: 0bsessions | June 18, 2009 at 11:56 PM

After comparing Burnett and Penny its clearly obvious who's had the better career. PENNY! I did not know his career has been this good and he's still only 31. Until last year he had been healthy and successful. So for all the Penny haters who post here, would you turn down AJ Burnett for a top prospect or player if he was available right now and was only owed 3 million for this year?

Posted by: RED SOX DYNASTY! | June 20, 2009 at 08:41 AM

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