Red Sox & Cards Swap Lugo & Duncan

This means Ankiel, Rasmus, Ludwick all the time now, correct?

Great pickup for the Sox? Are you freaking kidding me? Duncan sucks.

It's a great pickup for the Sox because no matter how bad Duncan sucks, Lugo will out-suck him.

Thanks Cardsfan387 for clearing that up. I had aso seen on other sites he was traded so I was getting somewhat confused.

I think it's a good deal for both teams. Although I don't know where Duncan will fit in? Maybe against some righties because of the struggles Jason Bay has gone trough of late? I don't know.

This is such bullshit, stop giving away players to the Red Sox for free.

WOW what a steal of a deal for the Red Sox. Duncan is one of the least played and most under rated guys out there. Watch him mash with a change of scenery.

Are you guys not reading the link's source. The last line says this deal did not happen.

I like this deal. Duncan in a Cubs killer, and I'm glad to get him out of the division.

you would think someone else would report this. I'm dumbfounded, if true, that anyone would give up anything for julio lugo. amazing. Sox players take less than market value deals, while other teams give them players and take their crap. wow.

Cardinals option Duncan to Triple-A
Slumping utilityman sent down; infielder Barden recalled

This is right from the Cardinal's Official website

The Cardinals will get Julio Lugo for free the next two season.

Lugo had to clear waivers. Chris Duncan was already a Red Sox property last night.

This is like when the Sox dealt Wily Mo Pena to the Nats for Chris Carter. Epstein salvaged something out of his mess. If Duncan can turn things around in the next few years, he could be used in a deal later on down the road.

Steal of a deal for the Red Sox? Chris Duncan has been TERRIBLE since April. If he can't hit, he's the most worthless player in baseball because he's bad defensively.

Last 7 days: .111 OPS (.000 SLG&)
last 14 days: .200 OPS (.000 SLG%)
last 28 days: .406 OPS (.108 SLG%)

He had a .675 OPS in May, a .608 OPS in June, and a .294 OPS in July.

Might be the worst hitter in baseball right now. Well, Ankiel might give him a run for his money.

Steal of a deal for the Red Sox? Chris Duncan has been TERRIBLE since April. If he can't hit, he's the most worthless player in baseball because he's bad defensively.

Last 7 days: .111 OPS (.000 SLG&)
last 14 days: .200 OPS (.000 SLG%)
last 28 days: .406 OPS (.108 SLG%)

He had a .675 OPS in May, a .608 OPS in June, and a .294 OPS in July.

Might be the worst hitter in baseball right now. Well, Ankiel might give him a run for his money.

Hellooo... the sox can't use him as a DH, they have ortiz. Sox fans, you just got the worst player on an MLB roster.

BoSox - When you get back a player with negative value, that's not an "epic win." Combine Duncan's laughable defense with his anemic offense, and you come away with an epic fail.

Until Matt Leach of Stlcardinals.com reports this, this deal is all speculation. I'll believe this deal has happened when more outlets (ESPN, CBS, FOXSPORTS) report this and mlb.com confirms this.

Remember last year, Jarrod Washburn was supposedly traded to the Cardinals last August and the next day Mozeliak refuted the information.

Besides, how does this deal help either side? The Red Sox not only have to eat Lugo's salary, they have to pay Duncan as well, and since they just acquired Jason Bay's old buddy, Adam LaRoche to be their first baseman, there isn't going to be any PT for Duncan there. Duncan replacing Bay in LF is obviously not going to happen, and Duncan replacing Big Papi as the DH is obviously not going to happen either.

Meanwhile, the Cards bring in Lugo, who all around has been borderline average at best both offensively and defensively. Makes no sense to me. The Cards already have Brendan Ryan playing well at short, and have depth with Khalil Greene (when he comes off the DL) and Pete Kozma in the minors if he were to be brought up.

HL -- that's a hell of a lot of "ifs." You've been reading too much Peter "if then if" Gammons. Granted, losing Lugo is no big loss for the Red Sox, but the odds that Duncan can "return to his old form" after essentially breaking his neck are slim-to-none. It's hard enough to maintain success as a hitter when you don't have a career-threatening knee injury; when you do, it's basically impossible. Optimism abounds for Sox fans; my guess is, Duncan never amounts to squat in Beantown.

"Julio Lugo would of been a nice upgrade over Alex Cora. We could of had Alex Cora come off the bench as he really is not a starter.....well lets go mets in 2010"

I agree with all this, but the thing is, the Mets are done. If Lugo came here for free, fine, but Duncan is an asset. The Mets should not be giving anything up for a guy like that because they aren't winning this year anyway. Why move guys who have even a tiny bit of value for a guy who you aren't going to use in 2010?

Atleast, Lugo can play 2nd and Shu can play left field. STL can bench Ankiel. Like I say on the STL paper, Glaus and Greene are on their way back, and then I see the last of Thurston in the starting line-up.

Cards came out on top. they dumped a small piece of salary and got a player for free for the next two years. im sure duncan would make around 1M next year.

And who knows maybe lugo is part of the Halladay trade......LMAO (but it could be possible)

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/07/sox_trade_lugo.html

more sources/links

Duncan is on the final year of his contract--Sorry

gobosox, Stl wanted to give up Duncan. He is a bad hitter and a worst defender. Even at 1st base. Lugo is a bunch better then Duncan, on 1 reason, Lugo can play more then 1 position, Duncan can not even play left field without making a mistake. He was reported that he is getting out because the pitchers are not throwing him fastballs. He has so many holes in his swings.

Duncan is not showing any signs of getting better. This guys is simply terrible right now. Automatic out. It's a good deal for the Cardinals no matter who they get in return. I no longer have to watch this guy consistantly hit weak ground balls to the second baseman! No more watching this guy look completely lost in the outfield! No more putting this guy in the lineup because Dave is his Dad! If the Red Sox can fix this guy... good for them! It's not likely. I doubt that Lugo is a huge player in the Cards lineup this year. Maybe he can come off the bench. Maybe he does nothing. I don't care. Duncan is gone!

I'm with you SuzysMan

I'm not sure if a single person in this thread has made a valid case for either one of these players being traded. Sox still have to pay Lugo's salary. Cards have middle infield with two reject backups (Lugo and Greene). Somebody explain where this makes any sense. Only thing even close to it is the Cards just dumped 800k in salaray.

The only thing I can theorize in my mind about this is the Cards plan to trade Ankiel, throw Skip Schumaker back in the OF, move De Rosa to 3rd base and platoon Greene, Ryan, and Lugo in the middle infield positions.

Suzysman,

I dislike your AntiKershawism

But I thought that was very well put.

Good job even though he will still be here come tomorrow.

I'd like to see what/if the yankees/rays do to counter these moves. As a sox fan, I would LOVE to see the yanks get holliday for some prospects (Chamberlain, Hughes?) and have holliday continue to struggle only to leave NY at the end of the season.

As has been alluded to in at least two comments (about trading Lugo or Ryan), perhaps this is a prelude to a second deal for St. Louis. Maybe the Cards want to fortify their SS position depth so as to trade away Ryan, Greene (Tyler), Kouzma, etc. as part of a package for a pitcher? We'll see...

"In Lugo's defense, while his glove is not very good, he is an upgrade over Greene, Ryan and Thurston. He had limited at bats (109) but is hitting .284/.352 and his last few years support that as non-flukish"

I was not all that familar with Lugo's stats until I just looked them up. You are 100% right, he is an upgrade over Greene, Thurston, and Ryan. I think this was a setup move for the Cardinals.

Here is what I would do if I was Mozelik. Cardinals trade Rick Ankiel, Brett Wallace, Todd Wellmeyer and Mark De Rosa for Scott Rolen and Roy Halladay and possibly PTBNL.

Cards OF: Ryan Ludwick, Colby Rasmus, Skip Schumaker.

Cards Middle Infield: Brendan Ryan and Julio Lugo.

Cards Corners: Pujols and Rolen.

Cather: Yadi.

Pithing Rotation: Halladay, Carpenter, Wainwright, Lohse, Pinero.

Anybody agree?

I would be shocked if Duncan ever saw the field of Fenway park. The way Theo values metrics and defense I ust don't see him being an OF'er for Boston. Seeing as how 1B and DH are already pretty crowded (Youks, LaRoche, Ortiz and now maybe Lowell) I would be surprised if he were called up this year.

Don't know about this PTBNL, though I can't imagine it being anyone significant.

Hopefully Lugo is one of those guys that just plays better in the NL.

Not a Red Sox fan by any means. Lugo was DFA that means in a couple days he would have been free! Getting anything for this guy is a huge bonus. Duncan had back surgery so that power has dropped but there is a good chance he can regain it. + another player that is a lot to get back for a player you were going to release!

“I agree that this is probably the wrong forum for "racial rants", and by NO MEANS am I defending the guy, but can you really be called racist for accusing someone else of racism?”

When everything you see is factored solely on the race of the people involved, then yes, you are being racist just the same. What he is attempting to force on people is really no different then say, J.D. Drew walking into a 7-11 and stating “of course, no white guy behind the counter”.

The guy is screaming racism because a AA shortstop with next to no talent was included in a package for one of only 3-4 available 1B in the game (all of which are “white” – LaRoche, Huff, Johnson, Branyan). That is reverse racism at its finest.

“Not a Red Sox fan by any means. Lugo was DFA that means in a couple days he would have been free! Getting anything for this guy is a huge bonus. Duncan had back surgery so that power has dropped but there is a good chance he can regain it. + another player that is a lot to get back for a player you were going to release!”

Duncan was on the verge of being released as well, so not sure what you mean. Duncan has not been the same since his injury; and nothing, anywhere, shows he will come out of it.

The Red Sox are paying either the entire salary, and receiving a PTNL, or paying almost all the salary and getting just Duncan. You can probably assume the “cash” aspect of it is prorated League Minimum this year, and League Minimum for 2010 (what the Cards would have to pay if they waited for him to be “free” as you put it.. That 500-600K is worth a no-body minor leaguer to many teams. That while the Red Sox are also taking on a guy who is being demoted from the majors to the minors for lack of ability. I cant see how you feel this is some kind of haul.

Duncan is a natural first baseman/DH. He obviously would never get time there in St. Louis. Maybe with less time trying to learn a position he's not right for he'll be able to straighten out his hitting. I've also heard he's not 100% health-wise, so a stint in AAA will do him some good. He has plenty of upside if given the opportunity to succeed (which, let's be honest, he didn't have in St. Louis with Mr. Pujols at 1B).

The Cards have to be thinking Lugo will just need a change of scenery. I hope that's the case.

I really don't understand the PTBNL. This looks like a deal for the BoSox (although certainly not a 'steal' as Duncan has yet to live up to his potential and the PTBNL has yet to be named). Boston appeared to be resigned to letting Lugo go for nothing and they've got something at least...

Another note: Glaus might be the next to be traded as he is in a similar situation. I don't believe he'll be able to throw properly this year and therefore would have decent value to an AL team as a 1B/DH. Hopefully he'll have success over there if traded as well. It's just a shame to see players labor in a situation where they're not given a fair shot.

"In fact, though, the alternative was to get nothing for him and pay him anyway. Instead, they got what is, at worst, a potential power asset."

Um, no? At worst they get....nothing? Wouldnt that be the worst case? And the most likely senerio? I'm not rooting against the guy, I like the Red Sox, but the deal is basically like the Sox getting nothing. I'm not really how you assume at worst the Sox get a power hitter, when this season he hasnt even done that.

Here is why I believe he wont even make the team. The Sox dont need a backup 1b because they have Kotsay. Now they need Kotsay because if Baldelli gets hurt hes their insurance for CF. And Kotsay is much better at 1st than Duncan. Im sure Theo isn't expecting much from Duncan, however anything can happen.

"Here is what I would do if I was Mozelik. Cardinals trade Rick Ankiel, Brett Wallace, Todd Wellmeyer and Mark De Rosa for Scott Rolen and Roy Halladay and possibly PTBNL."

There are a few reasons this would not work. First, you might not have known this so I will let you know. Rollen and LaRussa dislike each other. I use the term 'dislike' in gentle terms. It got bad and very personal between Rollen and LaRusa last time. I seriously doubt they kissed and made up.

For whomever says that Lugo will be crap for the Cards is forgetting that Lugo will be coached now by Jose Oquendo. Just take a good long look at what Oquendo has done with Skip Schumaker in less than 1/2 of the season. I'll very gladly take 2 free years of Lugo versus the pain of watching Duncan offensively and defensively.

Brendan Ryan is the Cardinals starting shortstop for the foreseeable future. The guy has a slick glove and isn't horrible at the plate.

Hopefully, Lugo will only replace left-handed hitting Joe Thurston off the bench. Thurston has been terrible this year but all of the Cardinals' other middle infielder candidates hit from the right side. (Descalso won't get a look until spring training.)

I like the "turd for turd" description. The Cardinals just needed a heathier turd in a different position. I assume it's the same for the Red Sox.

MESSAGE TO TLR:

OVER THESE LAST 13 YEARS WITH THE CARDS, YOU HAVE DONE WELL STATISTICALLY. HOWEVER; I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO LOOKS PAST THE NUMBERS AND SAYS TO ONESELF...HUH? IN '96, YOU MADE YOUR FIRST BIG MISTAKE, BY DISRESPECTING ONE OF THE MOST LOVED PLAYERS IN OZZIE SMITH. HIS FINAL YEAR AS A CARDINAL AND YOU SHUNNED HIM BY A YOUNGER OVERATED ROYCE CLAYTON. OZZIE'S FINAL AT BAT WAS A POP UP ON THIRD BASE SIDE FOR A OUT. HE SHOULD OF PLAYED ALL YEAR, WITH ROYCE AS A RARE BACKUP ON A OFF DAY. IT TAKES A REAL ASS TO UPSET OZZIE...BUT YOU SUCCEEDED. THE CARDINAL NATION HAS A REPUTATION OF THE BEST FANS IN THE GAME. ITS TRUE! YEARS HAVE PAST AND BRUISED "SOME" FAITH IN UPPER MANAGEMENT HOWEVER. DO NOT FORGET TLR...WE PAY YOUR SALARIES!!! THE ODDACITY OF RAISING UP AT SOME DISGRUNTLE FANS IS A NO..NO. I AGREE IF A PLAYER IS STRUGGLING, YOU MUST RUN HIM OUT THERE TO KEEP CONFIDENCE UP. AFTER A WHILE, YOU HAVE TO TAKE OTHER MEASURES. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL FAVORITES. WHEN MILWAKEE MAKES A MAJOR MOVE IN A PENNANT RACE, WE EXPECT JOHNNY MO TO TOP IT. OR ANY TEAM IN THE CENTRAL FOR THAT MATTER. I CANNOT SPEAK FOR ALL CARDINAL NATION...BUT I CAN FOR MANY LIKEMINDED. I HOPE THIS FINDS YOU GONE AFTER THIS YEAR FOR GOOD. IM SURE THAT MEANS DAVE WILL BE GOING TOO. I LIKE DAVE..I THINK HE IS A AMAZING COACH. IM IN FAVOR OF BRINGING BACK HERZOG. YOUR UNUSUAL STYLE OF MANAGING WORKS ALOT. BUT IT IS UNORTHADOX IN MANY WAYS. ROLEN HAD ISSUES IN PHILLY GRANTED, AND ISSUES WITH YOU. HOW IS IT, THAT IT IS SO EASY TO PISS PEOPLE OFF THAT PLAY FOR YOU? IS IT ALWAYS THEIR FAULT? WE MAKE YOU VOMIT? TONY; FEELING IS MUTUAL HERE. CHRIS NEEDED A CHANGE OF VENUE. YOU THINK ITS BAD BEING BOOED HERE. HE IS HEADED TO BOSTON.LOL THIS WAS A LUXURY CAMP COMPARED TO THEM. WE EXPECT A WINNING FRANCHISE, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE CARDINALS HISTORY IS. I DONT MIND PAYING $300 FOR A SEAT, PAYING YOUR WAGES. BUT MOST OF US WONT STAND YOUR MOUTH. MOVE ON AND GOOD LUCK. JOHNNY MO...IF MILWAKEE OR OTHER CENTRAL TEAM GETS HALLADAY..SO BE IT. JUST TOP IT SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY. LAST YEAR THEY GOT CC. WE DID NOTHING. DONT SELL OUT ALL THE PROSPECTS HOWEVER. IF WE LOSE PUJOLS, YOU WILL SEE BOOED. IM NOT YET ON YOUR BANDWAGON, BUT I CAN BE. PROVE ME WRONG FOR THE BENEFIT OF WINNING. YOU SHOULD ALSO REPRIMAND TLR. RULE ONE IN CARDINAL NATION..."DO NOT SH**TALK THE FANS.

"Lugo was DFA that means in a couple days he would have been free!"

Well, not exactly free. Any team picking him up would have to pay the league minimum.

Since Boston is picking up 100% of Lugo's remaining salary, and paying Duncan's salary besides, Lugo is actually playing for the Cards for better than free, but is he really worth it?

.

"Red Soxs traded Lugo along with his crazy contract"

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=stl#month=7&year=2009&team_id=138

the deal is real.

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and we need to get a guy like bedard or wasburn welemyer has been horrible i mean it would be nice to have halladay i mean that would be the best rotation if we could get washburn abd halladay
1.chris carpenter
2.roy halladay
3.adam wainwright
4.joel pinerio
5.jarred wasburn
god if those guys are pitching on their game best rotation i mean joel doesnt have the record but he has pitched so many quality starts and if hes pitching good complete game every time!

Posted by: hugecardsfan | July 23, 2009 at 06:15 PM

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Yeah about the only way those trades happen are if you trade Pujols to Toronto... Then trade Rasmus and Wallace to Seattle... Not literally, but I mean, there is nothing in the Cardinals system that could get you ONE of those two starters. Your system is pretty much empty after Wallace and Rasmus. You have a couple decent prospect, but you already traded away Chris Perez, and the rest of the guys wouldn't be worth anything to Seattle. We already have too many outfield and fringy pitching prospects. Washburn would actually be 2nd in the rotation after Carpenter and before Halladay if you are going off current value. If for no other reason than to break up the two righties with a lefty, but Washburn is a down right stud, not a #5 as you put it. Homer or not, he's pitched into the 7th inning or later 11 of 19 starts this season. He's pitched 6+ innings 17 o 19 times. The other two times he went 5 and 5.1 IP. Yeah, he's a legitimate #2 pitcher right now. Oh and if you wonder what a rotation would look like equal to your "dream rotation" just see the pitching staff Seattle already runs out there every week. Felix 2.45 ERA, Wash 2.71 ERA, Bedard 2.70 ERA, Vargas 3.81 ERA, Rowland-Smith 3.50-ish ERA career as a starter.

Anyways, there's no way in HELL that the Cardinals acquire Holliday + a F.O.R. pitcher. Nor are they going to get TWO F.O.R. pitchers.

Mark Twain once wrote that writing an exclamation point is like laughing at your own joke and it shows poor writing. I tend to smile when I think I'm funny or maybe have a chuckle, so I leave it to just one exclamation point if I'm feeling saucy! Two or more makes me feel like Rodney Dangerfield.

As far I can see it the sox traded lugo because he wasn't going to play for them anymore. Green has been servicable at shortstop and Lowrie is returning from injury, so there is no reason to have three shortstops on the roster. All three of those guys can play multiple infield positions, so Lugo's versatility did not come into play. They DFA'd him earier in the week just because he was a waste of a roster spot. I am not saying that Duncan is gonna be an impact player because honestly i have no idea what he is capable of. i think it was a smart move on Theo's part to atleast get a player who maybe someday could be useful, for a shortstop that the sox had totally given up on.

Red sox nation would a jon lester for jose reyes deal work out.

Since you need a ss and we need a change.

Cardinal fans what would it take to obtain ryan ludwick

lugo still blows too, but compared to duncan he's jose reyes