Boras Compares Holliday To Teixeira

No way is holliday on the same level as teixeria.

Well Boras might be a little crazy if he thinks matt will get tex money. But they are similar as they both can't hit jack without a big bat behind them.

More bad news for the Red Sox

Tex can hit in the AL. Holliday can't. There goes Boras' incomparable logic.

Posted by: Davey1171987 | October 19, 2009 at 03:29 PM"

Yeah Oakland stadium of whatever they call it is absolute death to offense. But thanks for the insight.

Holliday hit .286/.378/.454 through 93 games with Oakland this year.

The whole "Holliday can't hit in the AL" crap really needs to stop. He started slow adjusting to a new league, new team, new pitchers, etc. but went on an absolute tear in his last several weeks in the AL.

Matt Holliday can hit ANYWHERE. He posted an .877 OPS at home with Oakland this year. An .877 OPS in that stadium, for a right-handed hitter, is tremendous.

I fail to see how anyone can attempt to legitimately claim that Holliday is a product of the National League based on 93 games in the American League, especially considering his home park and the pathetic lineup around him.

"Holliday has shown that he can't hit well in the AL and I doubt he'd come close in CitiField to the production he had in St. Louis."

Um, St. Louis is a pitcher's park. Big time. In fact, more so than Citi Field this year.

All Holliday did there was post a measly 1.119 OPS.

Gosh, this guy will be lucky to get Garret Anderson money next season. He's a hack.

Baseball needs a salaray cap plain and simple. As soon as they're done singing the national anthem on opening day every year, you can go ahead and eliminate 5 teams from any chance of reaching the World Series. Your Pirates, Royals, Orioles, etc. It's basically a rigged card game. I'm glad more of the national media is starting to pick up on this and run stories on it. Does anyone think the Yankees and their $200+ million payroll can pull it off this year? What was the statistic, something 7 of the 8 playoff teams this year were the top 7 payrolls in baseball. So much for even playing field...

As usual, I find myself in complete agreement with scribbletone.

AL GM's sign this guy at their owner's considerable risk. AL pitchers are better: they have to be.

The likeliest destination for this mercenary appears to be the Mets and their cavernous new stadium. Those two deserve each other, and the rest of us can just not worry about the guy.

Legends of October hit the nail on the head.

I don't even think it's fair to say the improved quality of the competition is what hurt Holliday. The guy was in the same division as Lincecum, Cain, Webb, Haren, and Peavy. He had his fair share of aces to contend with.

The notion that Matt Holliday "can't handle the American League" is baffling to me. He had one bad month -- April.

By that same token, we should say that Mark Teixeira "can't handle hitting in New York" because he was about as useful as Nick Punto in April. What's the argument there? He needs Alex Rodriguez behind him to hit in pinstripes?

Holliday went through and adjustment period and/or an extended slump. It happens to hitters, even elite ones. Albert Pujols went 79 at-bats without a home run at the end of the season. Should we be concerned that he's no longer a legit threat for 30+ home runs?

Wherever Holliday lands, he's going to produce. The guy is a great hitter, and just because he played his first several seasons in Colorado doesn't mean otherwise.

Did Coors Field inflate his numbers? Sure, probably to a certain extent. But he also posted a .909 OPS this season without playing a single game at Coors, calling a pitcher's park his home all season long.

I left that out Legends, and I absolutely agree with you. Good point. What would a good range be? $50 million to a cap of $150? $65 to $125?
On a side note, as you state on your blog, "The Red Sox vanquished their 86 year old curse". I'm just waiting for my Giants to vanquish theirs...

"Boras' comments imply that Holliday's advantage over Jason Bay is his defense"

Pretty sure Bay played almost 1300 innings this year without one single error.... how could his defense possibly be knocked

I agree with Stephen. I understand how the super stat folks say his UZR, ABC and whatever else proves how bad he is, yet I watch him every game. He hustles to the ball, gets it in fast, catches what he can reach, and throws to the right base. He had 15 assists, no errors, fielding range was above league average, what has he done wrong?

"Pretty sure Bay played almost 1300 innings this year without one single error.... how could his defense possibly be knocked"

Tough to make an error when you lack the range to get to the ball in time to even have a chance at making one.

Holliday covers significantly more ground:

UZR/150:

Holliday: 3.2
Bay: -8.7

RZR:

Holliday: .951 (OAK) and .960 (STL)
Bay: .870

Errors don't really tell the whole story of someone's defense. Bay's defense was below average this season and it was still a drastic increase from years past.

Boras will say whatever it takes to milk the signing team as dry as possible. Tek is like Posada and Holliday like Tex...sure Boras, sure they are. I'm interested to see who takes the bait this year.

MorVP... Nobody saying the guys a "hack", he's no Tex though. What he did in NL in the second half was impressive, however he did catch some heat for lack of production the first half of the year.

"Errors don't really tell the whole story of someone's defense. Bay's defense was below average this season and it was still a drastic increase from years past."

Errors don't tell you any of the story. I could spend the entire season avoiding balls hit at me, and I could not catch a single fly ball and still not post a single error.

A dead guy in left field could go the entire season only posting a couple errors, just on the balls that hit his corpse, but he certainly wouldn't be considered a serviceable outfielder.

Boras is behind home plate in Anaheim, watching the Yankee vs Angels game. I wonder if he is enjoying the game or watching some of his agents play baseball.

@ scribbletone

Why should the big market teams continue to help the small market teams field their team why the owner spends the profit?

Essentially, the Yankees fielded the Marlins squad for them. What makes that fair?

Every team should win on their own, using their own resources. There should be restrictions.

No, a salary floor needs to be implemented so that some of these small market owners can be held accountable for fielding their own team. As far as the ultimate top salary cap goes, there needs to be a limit so that the small market teams can still financially field their own team while remaining competitive.

Some of these owners are not putting the money back into the team simply because they don't feel they have a shot to win in their division/ league. That should be fixed with a salary cap on both ends of the spectrum.

I like the $ 65 million floor cap. That's average, I'd say, for a decent payroll. For the top cap, I'd go 170 million. It's enough of a barrier against teams like the Yankees and my Red Sox to make them get a little more creative when it comes to acquiring talent.

Posted by: Legends_Of_October | October 19, 2009 at 04:12 PM

The Reds spent approximately 65 mill in payroll this year (when you subtract the contracts they traded) and have reportedly lost 16 million $.

a 65 mill floor is ridiculous

The people that say baseball doesn't need a salary cap are the same ones that thought there were WMD's in Iraq. The facts can stare them in the face and still continue to ignore them.

1. What are the payrolls of the teams left in the playoffs? The payroll of the 4 worst teams?

2. When an elite player hits the market, which teams are mentioned as possible suitors? All are only the "large" market clubs. Quite an unfair advantage.

3. If a small to mid market team want to spend more on free agents to get better can they? Essentially no, because that will bankrupt them.

4. Should MLB adopt the same television structure as the NFL? YES. In the NFL, the league negotiates every contract and therefore distributes all the money evenly to all the teams. Who says socialism doesn't work in pro sports???!!

5. The only people not wanting salary caps are a)players b) agents c) large market owners d) fans of large market teams. Take out those 4 entities and you'd be left with 90% of baseball fans.

6. Has the NFL succeeded or failed with it's salary cap system?

7. Has the NBA succeeded or failed with it's salary cap system?

8. Has the NHL succeeded or failed with the salary cap system?

9. Has any NFL, NBA or NHL player gone broke because of the salary cap system? NO

I liked points 1 through 9 myself.

for standbyme

Part of the UZR stat is comprised of range, Bay has more range according to fangraph or whoever. If Bay has more range, less errors, more assists and doubleplays what is the basis that he is a bad fielder.

As an aside, compare Holliday and Damon using every possible stat you can find and exclude UZR. Damon and Holliday are almost identical except in UZR which is comprised of all the other stats you found.

The UZR may not be perfect either.

No I am not a scout but When I see Holliday botch a playoff basket catch than trip over his own feet, a fleeting gazelle he is not.

I have nothing against Holliday, but Bay has proved himself in the AL. Holliday has not had a large enough sample and for that I do not risk millions and many years.

In the MLB, teams are all built differently, last year TB in the World Series. Brewers made the playoffs last year, and the Twins this year,not a high payroll for any of those teams. The large market teams who dull out 100M contracts like candy can too cripple themselves. It does hurt the small market teams more but a higher contract doesn't mean more production, it means more expections. The smaller market teams are bulit differently (I love the comp draft picks) and put more focus on the draft and other avenues to bulid a winning team. Compare 1.1M Kendry Morales and the 20M Teixeria, similiar production, 20 times pay for Tex.

Let's take another approach....

Let's think of a hypothetical professional sports league. It doesn't matter what sport it is, make it tiddly winks or checkers or whatever. Now let's imagine what this hypothetical sports league would look like if it were in dire need of a salary cap:

1) Most expensive players would continually flock to the same few rich teams. Causing a talent vacuum with the lower revenue teams, essentially where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

2) The lower revenue teams, trying to keep competitive spend more money, but end up losing money because they will never compete. Again, rich get richer, poor get poorer.

3) All of the rich teams in this league can negotiate more tv money since they are in the playoffs more, have more stars on their teams and therefore have more fans to fill their stadiums. Rich get richer?

4) All of the lower revenue teams struggle to survive, forget about competing. They need a miracle draft, for several years in a row, just to sniff the playoffs once and even then the attendance slides. If their good draft picks develop into all-stars, they can kiss them goodbye when free agency arrives because they can afford them. Poor get poorer?

5) The poor teams can no longer take advantage of the draft because they can't sign the top picks to their money demands.

6) Small market teams can make the perfect moves, draft, player development and maybe, maybe reach the playoffs, but after that success, they can't afford they player's new salary demands and the team is forced to dismantle and start over. A long sustained run is totally out of the question

7) Large market fans say "well having a big payroll doesn't guarantee success". Nothing is guaranteed in life sonny, and no one should have better chances than other teams, year in and year out.

Sound familiar?

MLB is the poster child for when a league goes bad and is in DIRE need of some sanity. Fortunately, the owners of the Brewers, Astros, Pirates, Red Sox said baseball need a salary cap. Reds owner Bob Castellini has said the business model in MLB is broken. There is a growing underswell coming and there is going to be world war III when it comes time to negotiate the next CBA.

FYI Having a lockout or a strike is not failure. Having a league continue to operate in a fashion where a select few teams continue to hold onto a priviledged advantage over the others is a failure.

BTW, in efforts to be competitive, the Reds spent a whopping $73 million in payroll this year (yes Virginia, there is sarcasm in that remark). Where did it get them? Well, there $73 million payroll was good for 21st in MLB and a 78-84 record. The team also lost millions this year. The business model is broken my friend.

" Therefore can anyone see the bottom 5 teams in payroll doubling or tripling their payrolls to make the minimum?"

Nope, that is why there simply has to be attrition of teams. How many right now can afford a 100M payroll? How many right now count on handouts from NYY, CH Cubs, Mets, Boston etc. from salary cap money as it is?

I would love to see a 125-150M cap, but definately a comparable floor as well, like at LEAST 100M to weed out the teams that need to be gone anyway and are the cause of mlb's problems. Get rid of the Marlins, Rays, Pirates and about 5-6 more and the league is way healthier.

Read this article by Bob Hunter of the Columbus Dispatch as he is a more eloquent speaker than myself:

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2009/10/06/hunter_10-6.ART_ART_10-06-09_C1_LNF9QCB.html?sid=101

I would love to see a 125-150M cap, but definately a comparable floor as well, like at LEAST 100M to weed out the teams that need to be gone anyway and are the cause of mlb's problems. Get rid of the Marlins, Rays, Pirates and about 5-6 more and the league is way healthier.

Posted by: johns | October 19, 2009 at 05:07 PM

So every team would have to spend between 100 mill and 150 mill? Seriously? It would be easier to put NYY, NYM, LAD, LAA, CHIC, CHIW into another league by themselves.

Biggest falicy in exisitence. Name we one team that didn't sign their player simply because they couldn't afford him? They may not have thought the player was WORTH what they were asking for, but they player didn't go unsigned because he was breaking the bank.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | October 19, 2009 at 05:11 PM

The reds didn't sign Jeremy Sowers in 2004 because of the amount he wanted. Many players get passed on due to this.

Simply put, the Marling and Rays have had teams good enough to make it to the WS in the last 6 years but not good enough to draw near 2 million fans. That has to mean something. Logic says that if a team can increase their attendance then they acn increase their revenue and place themselves in a position to sign whomever they want to sign.

Also, when the owner of the Brewers allowed his GM to extend a $100 mil offer to CC and it was rejected did he say, "Ok, take 50% of that and go out and get us a couple of pitchers to improve them team"? No. What did he do? He stuck most of it back into his pocket. Meanwhile, Brad Penny (1/5 mil), Randy Wolf (1/5 mil), Carl Pavano (1/1.5 mil)and Pedro Martinez went on the cheap or unsigned at the start of the season. ANy two of those mentioned above could've helped a very young staff and could've helped the Brewers be more competitive this year.

From Wikipedia for 2008
1 NYankees $209,081,579
2 NYMets $138,685,197
3 Detroit Tigers $138,683,978
4 Red Sox $138,292,937
5 Chi White Sox $121,152,667
6 LA Angels $119,216,333
7 Chicago Cubs $118,595,833
8 LADodgers $118,536,038
9 Sea Mariners $117,993,982
10 AtL Braves $102,424,018
11 St. LCardinals $100,624,450
12 Toronto Blue Jays $98,641,957
13 Philadel Phillies $98,269,881
14 Houston Astros $88,930,415
15 Milwaukee Brewe $81,004,167
16 Cleveland Indians $78,970,067
17 San Fran Giants $76,904,500
18 Cincinnati Reds $74,277,695
19 San Diego Padres $73,677,617
20 Colorado Rockies $68,655,500
21 Texas Rangers $68,239,551
22 Baltimore Orioles $67,196,248
23 Arizona Dbacks $66,202,713
24 Minnesota Twins $62,182,767
25 Kansas CityRoyals $58,245,500
26 Wash Nationals $54,961,000
27 Pittsburgh Pirates $49,365,283
28 Oakland Athletics $47,967,126
29 Tampa Bay Rays $43,820,598
30 Florida Marlins $21,836,500

Funny the Rays, number 29 made the postseason and had an opportunity to win it all & number 24
came within an eyelash of going to the postseason as well. The number 1 & 2 on the list sat at home and watched the postseason on TV. Goes to show, more payroll doesn't always equal success. Funny the middle of the pack, # 13 won it all.

What MLB really needs to do is increase the revenue sharing system, they need to force the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, etc. to share more of their revenue with the Rays, Marlins, Pirates, Twins, etc. in order to shrink the difference between financial resources.

Posted by: scribbletone | October 19, 2009 at 04:10 PM
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I definitely agree. Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc have a huge advantage over most other teams by the simple reason that they are old, well established teams that play in huge markets. All of this leads to greater profits from sales and merchandising. If this revenue were shared then all of the teams would be on more of an equal financial footing.

Just the thought of teams that draw well and run a good business having to "give" their profits away to teams that don't draw well makes me cringe a little. No salay cap w/o a salary floor. In the NFL any team can make out like a fat cat, especially when they only have 8 weekend games a year to worry about selling out.

"I definitely agree. Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc have a huge advantage over most other teams by the simple reason that they are old, well established teams that play in huge markets"

Umm, they already do and that is how scows like Pittsburgh, Florida survive with 5,000 fans for home game attendance.

Wouldn't it be better if those teams just went *poof* and ceased to exist? I am a fan of the Marlins, but one can only go so far rooting for a team that draws 5-7K fans, unless the Mets, Phillies are in town and then the stadium is full of fans for the OPPOSITION, same with the Rays as well.

"It's always fun to read Boras' hyperbolic statements about his clients."

Hyperbolic or hyperventilating? Either way they're usually pretty laughable.

"Boras is certainly right that Holliday's advantage over Bay is his defense."

You sure about that? Would you care to see game 2 again?

It's the postseason! Everything is ampilfied! Chase Utley has hip issues, had a hard time planting and throwing. The ball just sack-tapped Holliday and HE DROPPED A CATCHABLE BALL in what would've been a split, 1-1, series. That's huge! They played 162 games to get there and a dropped ball, caused the game to go on. If the Cards win, it's a footnote, but they didn't and people will continue to talk about it until he redeems himself. Holliday is a great baseball player who makes millions of dollars, he HAS to catch that ball! He did hit a HR that game and prob made some good plays but what he'll be remembered for, this year is that sack-tap!

If a rookie comes up, hits a homer in his first AB and never bats in the majors again, is he the best hitter ever? He never made an out and made the most of his one AB.

Holliday is a much, much better defender than Bay. One game doesn't change that.
Posted by: StandByMe | October 19, 2009 at 06:23 PM

--------------------

If that AB decided a playoff game, we'd still be talking about it!

The way so many *fans* here keep harping on Holliday's defense because of that one play is exactly the same way many people here were yacking about how atrocious Danny Uggla *must be* because he made 3 errors in the AS game a couple years ago, yet Uggs has some really smooth hands normally, just a lack of range.

I think "blue collar" refers to how they play the game. Quite, no drama, hard working...everyday multi-millionaire kind of guy..lol.

Since 2006.....

WAR total by year for Holliday.

06- 4.4
07- 7.9
08- 6.2
09- 5.6

Tex...

06- 3.1
07- 3.8
08- 6.7
09- 5.2

wOBA

Holliday

06- .409
07- .428
08- .418
09- .390

Tex

06- .374
07- .406
08- .410
09- .402

What is the damn problem here? Why are they not comparable? Because Tex did in the AL? Really? Put Holliday in Yankee Stadium and watch what happens.

"Another example of why I can't stand bor-ASS. Yeah, he's doing his job blah blah blah but to open his pie hole and shovel the b.s. of holliday being on the same planet as tex further proves bor-ASS thinks everyone else are complete simpletons."

So Mr. Guru, tell me, why isn't Holliday on the same planet as Tex? I feel quite confident that I could at least make a reasonable argument Holliday is the better player.

By the way, I am sure Boras cries himself to sleep at night knowing that you get riled up by his antics.

i love how fans argue against a salary cap. weird. because it can only affect them negatively if their favorite team does not make wise choices and relies on overspending to win. when it comes to sharing gate revenue, it should of course be required. the draw is the league. there is no competition without it. if teams could do so much better without the rest of the teams why haven't they started their own league? if they didn't make more money from being in the league than they lost to sharing, wouldn't they start their own league? the small teams are vital to the league and should be treated thusly. without them the yankee's wouldn't have tex, cc, aj, arod or damon. if we drop the teams that can't or don't spend 1oo million, how many teams are left? 8 in each league or less? i guess it could just be 1 division in each league, with each team playing 20 games against each other. and i guess the regions that lost teams will all be interested in supporting entities that abandoned them.then, where will baseball be? the yankee's will soon be playing with themselves instead of screwing the rest of the league. if following the monetary interests of the players is what brings you joy from the game, please, just transfer that energy to following sanitation workers salaries throughout the country! it might be even more interesting, anyway. then, there will be a reason your head is full of s#*t! and i'm a sawx fan...