Discussion: Rich Harden

Dodgers. No doubt. They want guys for the 4-5 hole at a cheap cost. We can def. take a hit if he doesnt pan out for one year, look at Schmdit/Jones...

If he is willing to take a one or two year deal, I would like to see the Yankees target him. They really need that fourth starter, but not in the form of a long term contract. Plus being a strikeout pitcher, he wouldn't be effected by Yankee stadium.

How about the mets they need pitchin bad so signing him as a number 2 could be ok but can't let that be a our number 1 pick up this offseason

Harden will be wearing a Twins uniform next year.

the mets should first sign a durable guy like lackey, then we can sign harden. we cant depend on harden to be our #2 starter, he is too injury prone.

santana
lackey
harden
pelfrey
maine/ollie

now, we're talking..

I would love for the Yanks to look into him. That way, if he does sign, he'll be a starter and allow Hughes or Joba to stay in the pen, with the other starting. It will keep the two guys fresh throughout the whole season, and provide some insurance and depth for SP that we lacked this season. I mean... Sergio Mitre. Really?

The Seattle Mariners have freed up more than $50 million in payroll with the departed salaries of Adrian Beltre, Jarrod Washburn, Miguel Batista, Kenji Johjima, Erik Bedard, Ken Griffey Jr., Russell Branyan and Endy Chavez.

Rich Harden reportedly grew up a Seattle Mariners fan in nearby Victoria, British Columbia. However, Harden might harbor resentment aqainst the Mariners, who failed to sign the righthander after drafting him:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20030921/ai_n14559272/?tag=rel.res1

Still, Harden might consider pitching in a pitcher-friendly ballpark backed by a top-rated defense.

Harden enjoyed his best years in the American League West and after his trade to the Cubs in 2008 had two strong starts against postseason-bound Milwaukee when current Seattle GM Jack Zduriencik was with the Brewers.

If the Cubs don't offer Harden arbitration, I could see the Mariners making a bid for the free agent.

Oops.

The issue of the arbitration offer is irrelevant because Rich Harden apparently is a Type B free agent who would not cost the signing team a draft pick.

I really dont see why we should base the belief that Jim Hendry and Harden arent going to sit down and try to work out a similar deal to what everyone else is saying. I mean, EVERYONES been pretty much basing this assumption off of two things. One is that the Cubs dont have that much room to work with and would NOT spend that on pitching. This is bogus considering they just got new ownership, do have room to work with, AND are going to rid themselves of Bradley (no it wont be all 21million but the cubs wont pay for mroe than half of his contract). The 2nd thing that theyre basing it off of is LOOPY LOU. This guy is a manager thats trying to craft a team that hes not even going to be managing after this year because he is going to be retired. Technically this years team is based on the Rickets and Hendry. Hendry is signed for years past Lou and its his vision with ownership influence. Lets stop excluding the Cubs. lets stop looking at free agents and making EVERY POSSIBLE CASE FOR WHY THEY END UP ON THE RED SOX.

Ned sign this guy and then give him the Clemens plan.

Before I go to sleep, I am really glad the Dodgers decided not to sign Pedro for a million dollars. Hell Mota only got 3 million.

Harden is perfect for the Sox. He has an injury history, however nobody can argue that he is not ridiculously dominant when healthy. The Sox rotation looks to be this.

Beckett
Lester
Buchholz
Dice-K
Wake

I doubt Harden will sign with us though. It think it would be difficult to trade Dice-K, and it might be better just to work with him. So I see the rotation at least temporarily set. Harden has real talent, he isn't going to want to possibly get locked into being a long man or spot starter. With that said I hope they get him. Farrell might be able to work with him, and our health facilities are good. His dominant starts would really be valuable in the AL East next year.

I think Harden is a great fit with most clubs, as long as they have the depth to cover for him when he gets hurt. If someone needs a player that can pitch well when healthy and can afford his likely trip(s) to the DL then its a good fit. Any team that needs starters can get him on the relatively cheap side for a #2-#3 starter. Red Sox/Brewers/Dodgers/Cards/Astros/Rockies/DBacks/Padres/Marlins/Os/Rangers all could use him. Personally I think he would do better in a place where he wont be asked to come back for the start of a season, a team with solid depth that could use him to increase said depth. That said, I think he would also be wise to avoid pressure environments.

agree that it will be a 1-2 year incentive deal but Richie will be rich with offers.

he may never look as flash as he did in the A's white shoes. but he'd be a good fit in Seattle (M's have a good following all over western Canada, not just B.C.), and he'd be a perfect fit for the Angels for reasons Scott pointed out above.

Twins, Mets would be bigger risks

"I think Harden is a great fit with most clubs, as long as they have the depth to cover for him when he gets hurt."

Seattle might have the existing rotation depth as well. The Mariners ended the season with a rotation of Felix Hernandez (34 starts, 2.49 ERA), Ryan Rowland-Smith (15, 3.74), Ian Snell (12, 4.20), Brandon Morrow (10, 3.68 as a starter) and Doug Fister (10, 4.20 as a starter), while Justin Vargas, Garrett Olson, Lucas French and Carlos Silva combined for another 38 starts.

"This is a good match because Harden's just entering his physical prime so theoretically he should be his healthiest the next 2 or 3 years and the Angels have the depth to get him the proper rest he needs."

That's not how it works. Harden being in his prime means that he should be at the top of his game pitching wise. Health has nothing to do with it. 27-29 year old pitchers don't get hurt any less than anyone else.

I am just curious, but why wouldn't the Cubs offer him arbitration? If so many teams could be interested, I don't think he would be a guarantee to accept. Although they wouldn't get a 1st round pick, they would still get a supplemental pick, which they need to grow their farm system.

And even if he accepts, then you have a very good pitcher for another year. Maybe he can build on his 26 starts from this year. I think for one year it is worth offering arbitration.

I thought that made sense, but maybe somebody can help me out with that.

Yankees

"Twins find a rich benefactor all of a sudden?"

The Pohlad family has always been one of the richest in baseball. They just don't choose to spend the money, which is frustrating.

"Even if teams looking for a part time starter don't bid high, Twins won't be hard to surpass, same with the Brewers, unless Harden thinks he can easily get a rotation spot with those 2 clubs."

How would he not have a rotation spot with either of those teams, especially with the Brewers (no offense Milwaukee fans).

I don't disagree that their offers will be easy to surpass, but the Twins could probably spend a little more if they wanted to with the new stadium. Plus, we were toying with acquiring him prior to the September playoff-roster deadline.

Likely? Nah. But there's far more unlikely destinations for Harden as well.

It has not been mentioned- but I can see the Nats trying to get in on Harden. Obviously- its an uphill battle with the clubs everyone mentioned...
But the Nats need a 2 FA SPs this offseason- they have said they want to sign 1 SP as a veteran innings eater- I can see them trying to get a high risk/reward guy for the 2nd SP signing.
When healthy, Harden could be a solid no2, or even a low end no1 for the Nats.

I know it wont happen since the Orioles freak about injury guys, but i think it would be a good signing for them to have a liitle solidness in the rotation. Ih im the O's gm id offer 2 years guaranteed for 15m.

The Cubs HAVE TO offer Harden arbitration. That way even if his arm falls off they're only stuck with a 1 year contract, unlike the contracts they gave to Zambrano, Soriano and Bradley.

""Harden will be wearing a Twins uniform next year."

Twins find a rich benefactor all of a sudden? "

Yeah, it's called Target field and its opening next year.

I'd be reluctant to even draft a Canadian starting pitcher, let alone sign one to a deal of more than one year. Unless his name is Ferguson Jenkins.

People talk about kids from cold weather states not playing enough growing up, but in a lot of Canada young kids play maybe 25 games a year. In some cases even elite kids that play on the provincial team and a local 'junior A' team are maybe getting into 40 or so games (the schedules overlap). In some parts of the country- even less.

I figure this impacts how durable they are as pitchers. They can be good athletes but their development is stunted by just not enough innings growing up and it comes out later in their professional career.

I have a feeling that we are going to see the Yankees in the Lackey bidding. That being said, I would not be surprised to see then target Harden. I dont know how the organization feels but alot of people have lost patience in Joba, and frankly, I would prefer to see him figure out consistency in the pen (ala Johan Santana) or in AAA. Hughes is clearly ready and I think that Pettitte is likely to return on a gauranteed contract that mirror what he made this year (after incentives). That leaves one spot and if it is not Lackey, Harden is not a horrible choice.

By the way, I think they need to release Wang (and maybe resign him for much less). I know the have the money to keep him, but he was never great, and we dont even know if he will ever be good again.

With that being said, a previous poster mentioned keeping either hughes or joba in the pen. I think that is a more likely scenario than having them platoon in the 5th.

the red sox need to make a deal for rich. like a 2yr deal. He would be amazing with the sox. see the problem with penny,and smoltz was they have had never pitched in the american league before. but on the other hand harden has. This would be our 2010 rotation.

Lester
Beckett
dice-k
buchholz
Harden,wake.

Harden and wake would switch every other start so harden doesnt get injured that often.

There is no such thing as a pitching platoon, because starters need to get into a regular cycle.

Harden is obviously a great fit for Boston and it would relegate Wakefield to middle relief (where he has excelled in the past) and injury replace ment duty. If Harden, Dice-k, and Buchholz are in the rotation, Wakefield will get plenty of starts this year.

I think that Boston, LA, and the Mets seem like the best fits. I would love to see a team like Texas go after him, but I dont have a good grasp on their budget flexibiliy.

Sox should sign Harden, and forget about Wakefield. As a person who has expierenced back surgery you are never the same. I dont care what kind it is, there is no such thing as minor back surgery. I expect a few DL'S for Wakefield this season. Then the Sox have to scrambling for starters.
This is another old timer that should move on. Or sign him after All-Star break, this way can finish season.

I like Bedard, but I think his trouble this year was his arm whereas Harden's arm was healthy. I think they will both get more than one year from one of the big budget clubs so if that is the case, I prefer Harden.

Posted by: Bretwk | October 30, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Bedard had shoulder surgery and will not be ready but to the Yankees I believe he's a better risk for the second half of next year and 2011 then Harden.

If all works out the Yankees don't even need any new starters as they have plenty.

Beyond

Sabathia
Burnett
Pettitte
Chamberlain
Hughes

They have Aceves, Kennedy, Gaudin, Mitre, McAllister, Nova and possibly Horne

Cyyoung - I dont think Wakefield has anything to do with the Yankees pitching in the world series.

dan l - The rotation that you are projecting should be improved by the yankees. They are likely to lose some offense this year, and they should always be looking to improve every year (that is what having a limitless budget does). There is no reason the Yankees should sign over rotation spots to Hughes and Joba. That would be malpractice in the minds of the fans who are more in numbers and pay more to see games in person than any other fans.

"The Pohlad family has always been one of the richest in baseball. They just don't choose to spend the money, which is frustrating."

You are correct MorneauMVP, everytime I think of Twins ownership, always think of Calvin Griffith and how tigh fisted and cheap he always was, my mistake (again..).

"50 yrs old Wakefield signs with the Sox. Dont care if he can pitch only half a season, he's affordable. Thats why Yankees are playing in the WS."

Just why not CyYoung? I recall quite fondly another outstanding knuckleball pitcher by the name of Hoyte Wilhelm who pitched PAST the age of 50 and was quite successful, as well as Phil Niekro who was successful until his late 40's and both had serious health problems as well.

Actually, I think that Harden is the most likely to succeed of the 3 pitchers as he has been more healthy the last two years, and his injury this year had nothing to do with his arm. That being said, you are paying him on the expectation that he will get 20 to 25 starts and that is what makes him such a strong value. I guy with his stuff that was healthy all the time would be somewhere between Sabathia and Burnett in contract negotiations.

I can now see why so many posters hear are sick of everything Boston. Harden is perfect for just about any team but again the column is about about he's perfect for the Bosox. Are you purposely trying to get everyone here to hate us, Mark Polishuk, or is Tim putting you up to this?

Bretwk.

The Yankees have enough pitching to begin the season just fine. But like last year an injury can happen. Wang went down and they needed a starter. This is where signing Bedard makes sense. He will not be ready until what June? He is insurance for both injury and poor performance. Plus on a 1 year deal plus team option for 2011 the Yankees have a veteran lefty ready to replace Pettitte who is likely to retire after next season.

4 million dollars, well worth it.

dan l - I disagree. As a life long Yankee fan, I will be very disappointed having to stress about Joba once every 5 days.

Also we will have Aceves, Kennedy, Mitre, Gaudin, Joba, and Wang (by August) all to make spot starts. I like Bedard, but Harden is a better pitcher and his arm (seems important for a pitcher) has not been a problem for 2 years. Bedard on the other hand has never made it through a season without arm trouble.

I have changed my stance on the Cubs offering Harden arbitration. He would accept the one year at 8-10 million. Just let him walk.

OK, first: the Red Sox aren't signing Harden. Neither are the Yankees. Every friggin' player with an ounce of talent and every fan of either team starts in with this crap. Ridiculous. Sure, they can afford it. But Theo isn't going to plunk down big money for a guy who is NEVER healthy and Cash has enough options to pass as well. Both team have enough live arms to avoid the risk Harden poses. To repeat and make it abundantly clear: neither the Sox NOR the Yanks will sign Harden...because it wouldn't make SENSE for them.

On the other hand... The Mets? Maybe. Seattle? Possibly. Confessing ahead of time that I'm an O's fan, I could see Baltimore offering a 1-2 year, incentive laden deal. The truth- as another poster already pointed out- is that there are plenty of fits and Harden will almost certainly benefit from a WEAK market...in spite of his issues. It just won't be from a serious contender. A team that's already doing well would be foolish to sign Harden unless it's one of those Smoltz/Penny bargain-basement Sox deals and Harden is too young/talented to accept one of those just yet. Wait 'til he's in his early-to-mid 30's. THEN, he'll start considering a ring over the cash. Until then, he's going to look for the best deal. Why? 'Cause even HE knows that with all of his injuries, his career could end tomorrow and- I don't care what these guys say- it's more important to be able to ensure yourself of financial security than take a 1-in-5 shot at a World Series...which is pretty much the best you'll get out there.

So who signs dude. Who knows. Obviously I'd like the Orioles to take a shot at him, given that it's a solid risk-reward signing, but I'm not going to say that's what WILL happen. The fact is (probably) that- like everyone else- the team that offers the most years (security) for the most money (um...money) will get him. What that means is also up in the air. They could be getting a pricey DL mascot or a Cy Young candidate. And that's why it's going to be a team LIKE the Orioles...or Mets...or Brewers...or...well, you get the point. It'll be a team for which a big risk/big reward contract makes some sense. Not a team in the cat-bird seat. 'Least that's my opinion.