Discussion: Crede and Washburn

Scott Boras clients are disappearing from the market; Hank Blalock is narrowing his options and talking seriously with the Rays. Two who remain unsigned and without a major suitor yet, however, are Joe Crede and Jarrod Washburn. Let's look at their 2009s:

Crede, 31, had another injury-filled season after signing a one-year, $2.5MM (plus incentives) deal with the Twins late last offseason. When he was healthy, he was flat-out fantastic with the glove, according to UZR, posting a mark 23.4 through 728 innings of work. His offense was lackluster, but what we've come to expect from Crede: a low OBP with good home run power. He posted a line of .225/.289/.414 but mashed 15 home runs in 367 PAs.

Washburn, 35, put up brilliant numbers in Seattle prior to a catastrophic collapse after being traded to the Tigers prior to the deadline. He watched his ERA rise from a sparkling 2.64 to 3.78 in his time as a Tiger, thanks to 43 innings of 7.33 ERA ball. Washburn's peripherals and phenomenal outfield defense in Seattle suggested that he might regress somewhat in Detroit, but no one could've expected results that bad. In his defense, he dealt with left knee injuries late in the season. Still, a mark closer to his 4.58 FIP is probably a better gauge of Washburn's ability.

Both remain unsigned despite the fact that Spring Training is under way. Washburn reportedly turned down a one-year, $5MM offer from the Twins earlier this offseason. That money has since gone to Orlando Hudson, so the Twins may be done spending. Washburn's been selective with his teams; he preferred to pitch close to his home in Wisconsin (Twins or Brewers) or return to Seattle.

Crede has yet to receive any offers, although reports are that he's hitting, throwing, and waiting for an offer.

What are some potential landing spots for the pair of free agents? We've heard Baltimore mentioned as having interest in both, though their corner infield spots are likely set at this point. Seattle could still use Washburn, and the Mets could benefit as well.

In addition to that, what kind of money should they expect? It seems hard to imagine Crede landing more than a minor league deal, and Washburn's chances of matching the $5MM offered by Minnesota aren't looking great. Both players can help a major league team if healthy, though.

It's a bit of a slow hot stove day, so put on your Scott Boras shoes and discuss your plan of attack to finding your clients a team for 2010.


Leave a Reply

27 Comments on "Discussion: Crede and Washburn"


dansaint
5 years 4 months ago

if Freese struggles, I could see the Cards going after Crede around April or May. As for Washburn…again the Cards could be a player (if Rich Hill doesn’t seal up that #5 spot and if they don’t want to rely on a Garica/McClellan/Hawksworth/Boggs combo) or maybe the Cubs get in the sweepstakes for him seeing as Silva will more than likely be released and Samardzjia may be more valuable for the Cubs in that 7th inning role that Guzman would have been in.

KeithLawSucksInStl
5 years 4 months ago

I agree, I suggested Crede over a month ago, but the question mark at 3rd was filled when we signed we signed Floppy, who can play 3rd as well as just about everywhere else. A small signing however would be fine with me, but I think Cards brass have shown that they won’t just sign a player because they have extra money.

As for Washburn, I’d love to see him working with Dave Duncan, but JMo (Cards GM) said earlier in the year – regarding our 2 open rotation spots – that one would be filled via free agency, one would be filled in-house. That free agent was Brad Penny. Duncan has been working with McClellan and we signed Hill to compete as well. If Washburn turned down 5Mill to be close to Wisconsin, I doubt he would take anything less (insert Johnny Damon joke here) but I don’t think the Cards would offer him that anyway.

So, I’d say it’s a no go with the Cards for both players, although I wouldn’t complain about either. As compared to last season, I’d take Crede over a rotating door at 3rd and Washburn over Wellemeyer any day.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

not gonna happen with crede as a cardinal.

if freese falters, they will give the shot to mather. if mather falters, it will be allen craig. if craig falters..well thats kind of sad we lost 3rd basemen but i think felipe lopez would get teh full time job.

washburn id like but truthfully, id rather see what McClellan can do. after all, how much worse than a 4.50era can McClellan be? (that being what washburn is project at).

5 years 4 months ago

I wonder if the Cubs would consider a NRI for Crede. He’s better than Chad Tracy. We always need a backup plan just in case Aramis gets hurt again.

JJBack
5 years 4 months ago

I would really like to see the Brewers add another pitcher such as Washburn. He’s a Wisconsin guy and from the sound of it, would love to play in his home state.

Ferrariman
5 years 4 months ago

i thought the rotation was basically filled? unless you guys release suppan or something.

JJBack
5 years 4 months ago

I would really like to see the Brewers add another pitcher like Washburn. Our pitching is what really hurt us last year. He’s a Wisconsin guy and from the sound of it, he’d love to play in his home state.

5 years 4 months ago

i’ve been saying all along that the mets should pick up washburn. he would be a great number two guy behind santana. they could get him at a reasonable price seing how late it is in the offseason. he would fill the fifth starterhole and in Citi Field he could put up great number with the stadium being huge.

R_y_a_n
5 years 4 months ago

Boy. Washburn a #2 starter?

Just, wow…don’t really know what to say if that’s what you are getting excited about.

5 years 4 months ago

its better than what they have at #2 NOW!

5 years 4 months ago

Crede a fit for Kansas City with Gordon’s injury?

Ricky Bones
5 years 4 months ago

There has to be some limit on how many White Sox washouts can join one team in a single season.

Drew
5 years 4 months ago

I wouldn’t be TERRIBLY upset if the Twins got Crede for dirt cheap. But really only if the Harris/Punto 3B platoon falls on its face, and Valencia isn’t ready. I feel like rosters are smaller this year for some reason. Every time I think, “Man, it’d be nice to have Player X,” I have to step back and say, “Oh, so then which guy on our major league roster do we ditch?”

Stoibs
5 years 4 months ago

Crede will end up with the twins. Punto and Harris can’t come close to matching his production. I could see a minor league deal with a chance to make close to 2 mill. Washburn is a great fit for the Mets or the Mariners. Both teams play in pitcher friendly parks. 1yr at 3mill.

5 years 4 months ago

Washburn really needs to be in the NL, in a pitchers park with a good defense behind him. That said, I could see the Brewers releasing Suppan or the Cubs releasing Silva and getting in on him (please, Jim Hendry, NO!) or even the Cardinals trying him out as a reclamation project of sorts. The Mets need to be in on him the most perhaps, pitchers park, descent defenders at key positions. He might fare well there by his standards.

GOwhitesoxNgiants
5 years 4 months ago

Washburn should not sign with any teams with an overloaded rotation, such as the twins; with the development of their young starters–Blackburn, Slowey, Liriano, baker, Duensing; and the veteran Pavano–if he makes a few awful starts, he could be out of the rotation, so he might as well sign with teams requiring a a back of the end starter, but with the potential to become a competitive team–e.g: Mariners, Giants, Brewers, Astros, Mets, Rangers– assuming , of course, that such teams would offer him an opportunity.

Ricky Bones
5 years 4 months ago

Out of the teams you named, only the Rangers & Mariners have the chance to be competitive this season. Out of those two, one would be a total disaster.

GOwhitesoxNgiants
5 years 4 months ago

oops, i didn’t mean to click the ‘like’ button on your post; nevertheless, i enjoy discussing baseball with you, so i approved your comment because of your insightful views about baseball.

Why would you say that those teams excluding the Mariners and Rangers have no chance of making it, without examining each of changes those team made from both a baseball and clubhouse perspective. For instance, with new coaches and familiar reunions between Rick Peterson and Willie Randolph, the Brewers could emerge as the dark horse, especially if you discuss power in their lineup with Braun and Fielder, and possibly McGhee and Hart. So, it’s not solely about the team’s makeup and past stats that determines the team’s success; it’s also the team chemistry, and everyone providing emotional support and advices on overcoming adversities that determines the team’s overall success.

The same applies for the aforementioned teams, especially the Giants last year. Two seasons ago, they had a dismal record, but after a few changes within their coaching staff and bringing in energetic players, such as Juan Uribe, they turned it around. So, regardless of the team’s past records, it is misleading to make assumptions about the team based on past records. We need to consider factors within the changes in the organization, and even factors outside of baseball, to adequately evaluate the team’s progress.

This idea about incorporating other factors rings true for the Mariners. With the addition of Jack Z, and new managers, but more importantly Griffey Jr’s leadership, the entire clubhouse changed within one season. So, the mariner’s hope for a successful season this season is an attempt to build on last season’s success, but not because of their record, but because of the new additions with different contributions to make in the clubhouse, such as Milton Bradley and his ability to maintain his composure when exposed to a supportive clubhouse.

The Astros, on the other hand, made coerced efforts to replace players that filed for free agency during the off-season, such as Valverde going to the Tigers and Miggy going back to the O’s. They didn’t simply rely on their farm system to replace the departed; they also sought help in players, such as Brett Myers, Brandon Lyon, and Pedro Feliz to avoid creating voids that lead to additional problems, so, much like the other teams out there, the Astros made changes with the mindset to compete because they believe the additions they made this off-season could rejuvenate their season this upcoming season.

So, all those teams that i just mentioned have potential to become dark horses, but, going back to my previous responses about my Met posts, we can’t simply write them off at this point, especially during Spring Training. So, we need to accept the changes they made, and hope for the best. However, as critical thinkers, we must, ironically, expect the worst from them.

Ricky Bones
5 years 4 months ago

First off, I can’t yet determine whether this is some sort of strange act or if you’re for real.

Secondly, you’re making the assumption that I’m a baboon who has neither evaluated any of the information, even the existential concepts you’ve presented here, available about any teams & their respective histories or off seasons while simultaneously putting your level of understanding on an ill-conceived pedestal.

Third, you feel Milton Bradley can behave himself.

Last, but certainly not least, Juan Uribe & energetic have never before been used in the same sentence & never should again.

bbxxj
5 years 4 months ago

Washburn: I think Seattle makes the most sense by quite a large margin. They have the defense, especially in the outfield, and park for his flyballing ways so that he can actually be fairly successful. They also have the need as they have two aces at the top but only 1.5 MOR guys in Rowland-Smith and a hopefully a healthy Bedard but they will need another arm (or two) if they want to upgrade their group of ‘fifth starter’ types. A Hernandez-Lee-RowlandSmith-Washburn-Bedard/fifthstarter looks like the best match. Milwaukee could perhaps use more starting pitching depth but although Gomez is a fantastic defender, Braun and Hart aren’t good enough to really compiment Washburn.

Crede: Though I love guys with glovework and power, I just can’t see how a guy making that many outs would be an upgrade to anybody’s team. Maybe the Marlins would want a guy to solidify their infield defense moving Cantu to first at the expense of some outs. But really, I think its anybody’s guess to where he goes.

AngeloCerilli
5 years 4 months ago

For Crede your options are…..minimal? I can’t see many teams wanting you, I would probably sign a 1-year deal with a struggling team like the Nationals, Pirates, or Royals to get your value up. Than with abit of skewed stats you would be in position for a major league deal and maybe one of those clubs would be in position for a draft pick? Just a thought. For Washburn you literally limited yourself to three option, the Brewers, Mariners, and Twins. I feel Washburn is best suited in either the West or the Central (considering he is actually willing to sign outside those three). Because in the West who do you get bashed on? The Rangers are a top 5 team in most stats USUALLY. A’s offense is mediocre at best. Angels lost a lot of their hitting this offseason, meaning two thing, they are going younger and I believe them to be more of a hit for contact team that will try to get up 3-2 and hold that lead, so the Angels I do not believe will hit as well as they have in the past this year. Finally the M’s have a revamped offense, Chone Figgins will compliment Ichiro very well on top of that line-up, im actually interested to see how many bases these two steal between them, and their park suits a small ball mentality anyway so the M’s will be interesting this year. Now obviously he would want to go on one of the two teams that will probably be competitive for the division the M’s or Rangers.

The lure of the central (if and thats a big IF Washburn wants to go back to the central) is the bigger ballparks. The Twins, Tigers, and arguably Royals, have all pitcher friendly stadiums, While the Indians field is more of a neutral ballpark. Which I guess would make the White Sox the most hitter friendly of the five, so the Central is best for pitchers. I mean look at some of the pitchers that DEVELOPED in the AL Central, Cliff Lee, C.C. Sabathia, Justin Verlander, Zach Grenkie, Johan Santana, and so and so on. A lot of great pitchers have come from the central, the ballparks suit them too, so they develop their stuff in a pitcher friendly environment and it pretty much shelters them until they are ready to take it to the next level, which a lot have. And im not even going to get in the NL. So what i’m saying is Washburn probably has a lot more options than what is believed, he just chooses not to look at any of them. Washburn will probably be bound for another stint with the M’s come June right before the Rangers and M’s make their case as the dominant teams in the AL West this season, IF and thats a big IF all the projections are right and the A’s or Angels don’t get on a hot streak and emerge a serious competitor, which is VERY VERY possible, anything can happen in the Wild Wild West.

5 years 4 months ago

what about the Mets? they are a perfect fit. they could be competitive. everyone always rules them out though because there startng rotation stinks!! but any team would be happy to have a johan. washburn would fit in very nicely. they have an open spot for a starter, its a pitcher’s ballpark, and this guy is good enough to be a #2 starter behind johan santana. they have enough money too! with washburn completing there rotation they could be good and maybe win the wild card with the NL stinking other than three teams!!!

AngeloCerilli
5 years 4 months ago

Jarrod Washburn has 1 career start IN Shea Stadium, his stats were this: 6 IP 6 Hits 3 K’s 2 Walks .240 Average Against, allowing only 1 run making his ERA 1.50. This is not a huge sample size but the one time he played in Shea I would grade his start as a Quality start and deserving of a W instead of the No-Decision he received. I’m not saying that Washburn is going to be the savior of the Mets but his one start wasn’t all that bad. Now if we want to look on the flip and say, well what is his stats vs the Yankees? It would provide us with more starts to base off of and even though the Mets and the Yankees arent the same team I would argue they both play in New York so we MAY get some accurate information in Yankee Stadium Washburn stats look like this: 1-4 (W-L) in 6 games, 38 innings of work and 16 K’s to show for it, while walking 9. 39 hits against and a .267 average against, allowing for 16 runs (12 earned) and an ERA of 2.84. Which for a starter are pretty damn good, thats legit number 2 starter numbers I will give him that. But will the Mets give him the money he wants, and better yet, will he even want to go to the Mets?

lefty177
5 years 4 months ago

ok, someone try to follow my logic here, if all these teams are going “defense & pitching first”, why is Crede still out there? is he that much of an injury risk?

AngeloCerilli
5 years 4 months ago

Because most teams already have a premier 3rd baseman or a young guy that they want to give a chance to rather than take sign Crede who although low risk would also mean a 40 man roster spot and maybe block that prospects. Crede will get more love as the season goes on and the Injuries start piling on for potential playoff teams.

GOwhitesoxNgiants
5 years 4 months ago

Where is the logic behind your seemingly pretentious comment?

Ricky Bones
5 years 4 months ago

What’s this guy’s deal? Who brought him to the party?