Twins Sign Orlando Hudson

The Twins signed Orlando Hudson to a one-year $5MM deal. The contract, which doesn't include incentives, dictates that the Twins can't offer Hudson arbitration if he is a Type A free agent.

Hudson will take over at second base for Nick Punto, who played the position from mid-June until the end of the season.  Punto posted a solid 9.4 UZR/150 as the Twins' second baseman, but hit just .228/.337/.284 with one homer on the year.

In 149 games for the Dodgers last season, the 32-year-old Hudson hit .283/.357/.417 with 9 HRs.  While he holds a career UZR/150 of 2.6, he posted a -7.6 in 2008 and -3.7 in 2009.

The Nationals and Indians were also pursuing Hudson. Washington promptly agreed to a deal with Adam Kennedy once Hudson agreed to a contract with the Twins.

Curtis Kitchen of WHB Radio in Kansas City first tweeted that Hudson had reached an agreement with the Twins. ESPN.com's Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweeted contract details.

Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.


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275 Comments on "Twins Sign Orlando Hudson"


HalfSt
5 years 6 months ago

Oh, well. Good bye Orlando. It would have been great having you on the Nats. You have clearly been waiting for someone you like better to make you an offer.

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

This would also be the time for usual chorus of “Omar blows it again!” and “what could have been!” by Mets fans. Allow me.

JohnLucarelli
5 years 6 months ago

Awesome. Super awesome.

Lets just hope K-Rod strikes out A-Rod next time.

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

Can’t lose our sense of humor and irony, if you know what I mean (which obviously you do).

Oh – and that’s “A-roid” to me.

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

If the Twins get him, it would be AMAZING!

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

It is amazing and it’s finally OFFICIAL!
Congratulations, Twins Fans!

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

you bet, This is an incredible signing!!!!!!!!!!!

sploorp
5 years 6 months ago

Hell yeah it would be amazing! I’ve been ranting about this on the Twins blogs all winter!!

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

Just a tremendous signing!

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Hudson was great in the first half, but was dismal in the 2nd half offensively. He will be a downgrade to Punto on defense, but an upgrade (even if slight) on offense.

magiccityrooster
5 years 6 months ago

Downgrade? Are you kidding? O-Dog has won 3 gold gloves. How many does Punto have?

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Because I saw Hudson play last season and I know he has sure hands but not a ton of range. Punto had all the range in the world, thus getting to more balls than Hudson would. Gold Gloves are a joke.

ltdibo020
5 years 6 months ago

Love when players say they won’t play for certain teams…I don’t get that
Would have loved to see Hudson on the Nats. oh well.
I personally would never let that get out. For instance when he is 35-36 and not a starter and maybe the only team that might want you is the nats, then what?
Theres always the chance that may cost you money. Lots of money…why do players do that. wierd? Ownership or the GM may say, oh yeah this is the guy that didn’t want us when we were bad….oh ok you know what we’ll sign this other guy.
Its called marketing yourself…not a good job by Hudson….may be better for the Nats to stay away from this guy and stick with Desmond and Guzman. Its not like we needn’t one last piece. I got to say if I was GM he would never play for my team because of the way he handled this. Never ever….just me
I’m kinda rooting against him this year, I know its selfish, but I’d like to see him not do so well.

sploorp
5 years 6 months ago

Dude! It’s not like the guy is taking less to play with the Twins. Unless the blurbs are completely wrong, the Twins are out bidding the Nats by a few million dollars – that’s almost twice what the Nats offered.

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

Let’s hope this is legit.

Hudson is the missing piece for the Twins right now…

cookmeister
5 years 6 months ago

i think the are missing a little more than a second baseman

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

Such as?!

They’ve got a solid young rotation that runs about six or seven deep right now.

They’ve got a very good, re-loaded bullpen.

They’ve got one of the AL’s best lineups.

The Twinkies are in pretty good shape.

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

since when do they have one of the best lineups?they’re probably slightly above average (maybe 5th or 6th best) in the AL…But yea, they have a good team; almost guaranteed a playoff spot

twins2
5 years 6 months ago

the twins will field the best lineup in the majors against right handers

PhilsPhaninPhlorida
5 years 6 months ago

Expand ⇗Verified
twins2 42 minutes ago in reply to Ben Chiasson

the twins will field the best lineup in the majors against right handers

Actually… That honor goes to the Phillies.
Rollins – SH
Polanco – RH
Utley – LH
Howard – LH
Werth – RH
Ibanez – LH
Victorino – SH
Scheidner – LH (will split time with RH Ruiz at C)

Bench
Gload – LH (led all PH in baseball in 2009)
Dobbs – LH (led all PH in baseball in 2008)

NL_East_Rivalry
5 years 6 months ago

For now. Schafer – L, Prado – R, Chipper – S, Heyward – L, McCann – L, Yunel -R, McLouth – L, Freeman – L in 2011 or 2012 should prove very strong against Righties, but it’s hard to beat Utley and Howard’s 1-2 punch against Righties.

Of course Heyward behind Chipper would be 2012.

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

Since last season when they ranked like among the best in all of baseball and if they add Hudson, all they’ve done is get better.

On paper, they figure to rank right behind New York in the AL. I wish they had some more right-handed power, but you take what you can get…

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Lol, you are pretty delusional aren’t you?

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

How do you figure?

The Twins were in the Top Four in the AL in AVG, OBP, R, H, 3B, RBI, BB and K last year. That includes missing a month of Morneau, a month of Mauer, and having black-holes like Punto, Young, Harris, Casilla, Tolbert, and Gomez in the lineup for most of the year.

Explain to me how I’m delusional?! The club has Morneau and Mauer healthy, the club added a REAL number two hitter and JJ Hardy and Delmon Young is finally coming around.

Enlighten me as to how I’m delusional…

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Regression, it’s a real thing. Experts don’t expect Mauer to put up his 2009 year again, and rightfully so. He’s a catcher, and the season he had just doesn’t happen to catchers. The wear and tear of playing a whole season at catcher will bring his numbers down in 2010, maybe not much, but I would expect some. Of course there are others who are due to get better, but I’m not sure I’d bet on Kubel OPSing .900 next year.

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

Mauer and Kubel are both entering their prime. Either one could regress a little, but they’ve added more offense in Hardy, Thome, and Hudson.

I can’t see how a club that WAS one of the best in the AL a year ago suddenly gets worse with more talent.

I still fail to see how I qualify as “delusional”…

twins06
5 years 6 months ago

regression? maybe a little but dont give me this crap about wear and tear while that may be true he still has won 3 of the last 4 batting titles

cookmeister
5 years 6 months ago

I’m not saying they are bad. they could use a legit starter (a lot of pretty good young guys i dont think is that great, but not bad). not sure who their third baseman is. not a big Hardy fan either. the twins will win the division probably, but i dont think they have what it takes to win a playoff series

timmay1
5 years 6 months ago

anything can happen in the playoffs, especially if Phil Cuzzi is umping the left field line.

sploorp
5 years 6 months ago

Punto will probably be the third basemen.

cman
5 years 6 months ago

Harris will be the everyday 3rd baseman. Gardy has already said he’s the guy.

dancaffrey
5 years 6 months ago

the best two starters are most likely Slowey and Baker. Don’t expect either to be Cy Young caliber, but, in their prime they are capable of being like 16-10 with an ERA of 3.5 with 175 K’s

cman
5 years 6 months ago

Don’t forget about Blackburn. The past two years he has been one of the most consistent starters. And for a sinkerballer, he’s been pretty impressive.

sploorp
5 years 6 months ago

Such as?

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

agreed. Hudson and his personality will fit in great with the Twins!

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Hudson is the missing piece? I’m pretty sure a mid 2 WAR 2B isn’t the piece of the puzzle the Twins need to make it to the World Series. From what it looks like the pitching is very lacking in terms of TOR starters, and it’s a bunch of 2-4 starters.

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

The rotation is fine. They go like seven starters deep. You don’t need to throw out a CC Sabathia everyday to be a winning ballclub. The offense is primed for a huge year and the rotation and bullpen are in far better shape than they were a year ago.

If Liriano can keep his DWL success going, the club has it’s frontline starter and Baker is working his way to the next level as well.

twins06
5 years 6 months ago

look at it this way. if u put hudson in our lineup last year and we only win a total of two more games. that means no major extra inning 163rd game. they get rested for the yankee series. they may have still lost but those extra two games help us a lot

bbxxj
5 years 6 months ago

I wonder if Hudson is also scared of losing his job to Desmond later in the year like he did to Belliard. I don’t think Castila or Tolbert pose the same threat.

jhawk90
5 years 6 months ago

You mean Casilla and .186 Tolbert? Hope not. Hudson’s 2010 VORP is at 15.8, the current crop of talent checks in at 3.0 (Casilla), 1.7 (Tolbert) and -0.8 (Punto).

That’s right kids – the starter has a negative VORP. Yes Minny, you NEED Hudson or Lopez.

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Punto was trash on offense (though he could get on base), but his fielding in 09 was very good.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

He lost his job because Torre went with the hot hand. Hudson was among the League leader in hits and batting avg. at the all star break. after the all star break he was not hitting well. I wish the dodgers would have resigned him but there was bad blood. According to Hudson Torre benched him and never told him why. I do find it interesting that no one will give him a multi year deal. He is one of the better second baseman around. Good luck Orlando gonna miss you in LA.

twins06
5 years 6 months ago

he lost his job because of money. he had clauses in his contract he was close to getting which would have given him a lot of money. they were winning with belliard so they made the move to save money

Motor_City_Bombshell
5 years 6 months ago

Well, they’re making it interesting here. A great lineup, a solid rotation. I can see them winning the Central again this year with the Chisox and Tigers right behind them, it’s gonna be another helluva AL Central race this year! :)

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

The AL Central has the most exciting races in the entire League, I think!

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

The NL West race last year was pretty intense for the last month and a half. It was nerve-wrecking.

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

Yeah, it was active but I didn’t have much doubt the Halos were going to take it.
On the other hand, if you happen to be a Rangers fan, I understand you have to dream big, and I’m not stepping on that. It’s just that I couldn’t see how the pitching would be able to hold up.

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

That’s the AL West. I don’t think that was much of a race after June.

twins06
5 years 6 months ago

last years NL west race was a lot like the 2006 AL central race where you had two teams already in the playoff take it down to the last game of the season to decide who won the division and the twins like the rockies had a horrible start to the year

5 years 6 months ago

I am glad the Twins are close to signing Hudson. He is a way better option than Punto or Casilla. Maybe this will help Mauer with his extension. I can’t wait until the season starts!

Infield Fly
5 years 6 months ago

Only 14 days ’til pitchers & catchers! YEAH!!

rockiesfan_303
5 years 6 months ago

All three top AL Central teams look very good now. Twins out of money now or do you think they remain in the running for Washburn?

Motor_City_Bombshell
5 years 6 months ago

I doubt it, I just can’t see them spending $5MM on Washburn, especially if they want to extend Mauer.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

I think that the Twins are completely done for free agents if they pick up Hudson. Casilla will be traded and Mauer will likely be extended but that’s likely the end of it for the Twins.

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

There’s no room, money, or need for Washburn.

They are six or seven deep in starters right now.

mistermonkey
5 years 6 months ago

Yeah, why would they sign Washburn? It would make no sense after the Pavano re-sign and with Slowey, Baker, Blackburn, Duesing and Liriano. Hudson is a great signing for them though, dammit. (Tigers fan here.)

twins2
5 years 6 months ago

i agree, washburn makes no sense

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

We can only hope that they don’t spend on garbage like Washburn.

Get this done and you’ve easily got the best lineup in the AL Central, Twins… and one of the best in the AL in general.

5 years 6 months ago

Right on!

Guest
5 years 6 months ago

You bet!

TwinsTapir
5 years 6 months ago

Probably out of money, but don’t have a roster spot for Washburn anymore anyway. I don’t think they’ve been a player in that since resigning Pavano.

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
5 years 6 months ago

Wasting a rotation spot on Washburn for the Twins will have the same effect as when they wasted a roster spot on Livan Hernandez in 2008, 140 mediocre innings followed by missing the playoffs by 1 game.

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

“Mediocre” is being generous to Livan’s time in Minnesota… ugh

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

IIRC, he did start the year 6-0. Then proceeded to slump to 6-10 before the Twins finally dumped him…

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
5 years 6 months ago

Actually no. He started off 3-0, then ended off with a record of 10-8.

yrocks2001
5 years 6 months ago

There really isn’t a whole lot of need for Washburn since Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Pavano are all slated for the rotation and Liriano/Duensing should be solid as the 5th starter. The Twins offered Washburn a deal before Pavano accepted arbitration so they likely will not go back to him now.

rockiesfan_303
5 years 6 months ago

So what does that leave for Washburn? Hate to turn the discussion Mets-wise but he is the best they can hope for at this point. Unless him and Bedard both back to Seattle.

sploorp
5 years 6 months ago

Oh man, I sure hope not. A lot has been made about the Twins pursuing Washburn. According to the Strib, the offer was made BEFORE Pavano accepted arbitration and they felt they needed a veteran presence. But Pavano accepted, so that need is filled.

With the exception of maybe a few minor league deals, I think the team is done.

twins06
5 years 6 months ago

washburn is a waste he is not worth 5 million unless its in incentives. We already have 4 lock rotation spots and 3 guys competing for the 5th spot. well 4 perkins is more than likely gone. and they will probably give the 5th spot to lirano

sonofkenny
5 years 6 months ago

Might this mean they have a deal worked out with Mauer. Wonder if they worked out some kind of deferrment with Mauer on part of his extension to free up money for Hudson

HalfSt
5 years 6 months ago

I expect Adam Kennedy to get a phone call from Mike Rizzo momentarily. I don’t know if I like that. I am tired of the Nats being rejected, and tired of them signing rejects.

PhilsPhaninPhlorida
5 years 6 months ago

since when is Kennedy a reject?
He had a great season last year, better than Hudson’s – Hudson LOST his job to Belliard… I mean, come on…. Hudson is a great addition to the Twins, alot better than Casilla or Punto. But Kennedy or Hudson – they are both good.

Kennedy – 529 AB / 65 R / 153 H / 11 HR / 63 RBI / 20 SB / .289 IN 129 GAMES
Hudson – 551 AB / 74 R / 156 H / 9 HR / 62 RBI / 8 SB / .283 IN 145 GAMES

That said… I would have loved to see how the Twins would have made out against the Yankees in last year’s playoffs WITH Morneau….

Twins should be favorites to win the AL Central.

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

I’m not in a position to disagree with you, because I haven’t checked Kennedy’s stats in depth, but you are using runs, rbis, and average to judge players, which is just a fail in itself.

OBP and SLG% are 2 of the very most important numbers to judge hitters. I’m going to check fielding right now.

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Kennedy – .749 OPS
Hudson – .774 OPS

Kennedy – -10 UZR
Hudson – -3 UZR

Kennedy – 1.7 WAR
Hudson – 2.9 WAR

Hudson was definitely better in 2009, he just tailed off in the 2nd half (must, actually, like i’ve heard Kennedy did).

firealyellon
5 years 6 months ago

PUNTOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

BlackBocks
5 years 6 months ago

Punto now plays 3b

jhawk90
5 years 6 months ago

That way he has a real good look at what baserunners are supposed to do when they get there. Everybody wins.

Drew
5 years 6 months ago

And he’s a better defensive 3B than 2B.

5 years 6 months ago

I think that you have to play Harris at 3b and let Punto do his real job, back up utility infielder.

5 years 6 months ago

But Gardy doesn’t work that way.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

Have you seen Brendan Harris’ WAR?

cheapseatchronicles
5 years 6 months ago

You’re joking right?!

Harris is a TERRIBLE fielder everywhere on the diamond.

His career UZR/150 rankings are as follows:

2B: -6.8
3B: -19.6
SS: -9.9

and his OBP the last two years with the Twins is .319.

Punto’s UZR/150

2B: 3.9
3B: 19.9
SS: 18.1

OBP the last two years: .340…

Harris isn’t even a sufficient utility fielder, let alone a starter…

5 years 6 months ago

Well this is going to be a good AL Central battle between the Sox and Twins.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

I enjoy this kind of enthusiasm in Chicago.

It will make seeing you 8 GB in August all the more enjoyable :-)

chetkincaid
5 years 6 months ago

And then your alarm clock will go off and you’ll wake up and realize that the Twins are under .500 and the White Sox are running away with it.

Are the Sox supposed to be afraid of twins because they signed Orlando Hudson? Boy, this is going to be a fun season. I’ll be in minny a lot this summer with my White Sox gear on…

danks50
5 years 6 months ago

Dream on that is unless your rotation of mid to back of the rotation starters lead you to the promise land. Bawahaha.

In all seriousness the Twins have to excellent offense but their is a ton of question marks in that rotation.

BattingThird_Number34
5 years 6 months ago

Promised land? You mean, like last year?

cubnation
5 years 6 months ago

And Jim Hendry swoops in!!!!! 😀

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

Great pickup.

Twins had the AL Central even without him. He was a “want” and not a “need”, but I’ll gladly take him. This just increases the chances it takes the Yankees 4 games to knock us out of the playoffs this year; division pennant is a foregone conclusion.

Don’t look for Casilla to be gone. Great speed as a PR (esp handcuffed to Thome’s PH), and he could well be the 2b for 2011.

Drew
5 years 6 months ago

Agreed. We don’t have a proven 1-2 knockout pitching punch for the playoffs now, but we’ve got a season to develop one. This plugs our last true gap in our lineup/infield.

All that’s necessary now is to re-sign our crown jewel. And I think that’s more likely now than ever.

firealyellon
5 years 6 months ago

Gardy phasing out the piranhas at Target Field….pretty smart. Now they just need a real pitching staff…

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

Slowey was right there with Grienke and Doc last year with 10 wins, until he took one off the wrist. He’ll be back 100%.

Baker has long been projected as a future ace by the club – and the Twins have an eye for pitching talent.

Blackburn has been a solid #3 pitcher for two years.

Pavano had a winning record last year, even pitching for a terrible Cleveland club most of the season.

Liriano is looking like his 2006 version down in the winter leagues.

They may lack the “big name” pitchers, but don’t be surprised if Baker/Slowey don’t become household names by July, and the rotation is every bit as solid (top to bottom) as anyone in the AL Central.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

Slowey- Won because of run support
Baker- The one guy I think is actually a stud pitcher in the staff
Blackburn-Showed more of his true side in the second half of the season, with an eye popping .323 BAA and a mid 5 ERA. I don’t really think he’s THAT bad, but I wouldn’t bank on him playing like his first half self.
Pavano- Not dependable at all, and even didn’t pitch well in a year he didn’t get hurt
Liriano- I’m not going to believe he’s back until I see major league proof.

danks50
5 years 6 months ago

Give me a break, Pavano having a winning record and Liriano dominating B level talent is weak. Facts are your stud pitcher Carl Pavano sported a 5+ era last year with opponents batting right around .300 against him and hasn’t posted respectable numbers since 2005. As for Liriano dominated sub-par talent doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that he hasn’t shown he can be productive for an entire season and he was beyond awful last year.

You can write whatever nonsense you want but if you truly believe your pitching staff is “as solid as anyone in the AL Central” you need to put down the Twin City koolaid and reevaluate your talent.

jjalexei
5 years 6 months ago

Liriano dominating B level talent should fit right in to pitching current lineups Sox lineup. With the Sox below average bullpen and bottom of the central line the Twins should win the central by 5 min.

twins2
5 years 6 months ago

well its not quite done yet lol

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

Does Casilla have any minor league options left? I think that’s the only way they don’t trade him if they sign Hudson.

yrocks2001
5 years 6 months ago

I don’t believe so but I think Tolbert does so he is likely to be sent down if this happens.

Drew
5 years 6 months ago

Casilla is out of options.

jhawk90
5 years 6 months ago

Agree on Casilla – pack your bags Tolbert.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

The Twins are likely to carry only a four-man bench. That would mean:
Morales (well, Ramos until Morales is healthy)
Harris
Thome
Casilla

I guess I have trouble seeing the Twins go north without someone besides Denard Span who can play CF. I think there’s a good chance that Pridie goes north and Casilla gets traded. I could be completely wrong, however. Who knows, maybe Gardenhire will run Cuddy out to CF when Span needs a day off…….

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

That is the dilemma. You really want Pridie on the bench to spell Span, but Casilla is still so young and cheap, with flashes of being a legit starter sprinkled in with flashes of immaturity.

I’d hope they go with a 5-man bench.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

Casilla has had some nice spurts and streaks… but his overall numbers just don’t add up. He’s shown nothing over the long haul that demonstrates an ability to play well at the major league level.

His major league slash line is .244/.301/.314 over 806 ABs and he still hasn’t figured out fielding and baserunning despite his natural talent.

jhawk90
5 years 6 months ago

There’s the rub – Punto can play a corner if necessary but no one else can play CF. Think about that – Young, Cuddy and Kubel. Wow. Unhook the plow out there boys.

Wouldn’t shock me to see them move Casilla/Perkins for anything and bring Pridie up or move on a vet with some wheels until one of the OF kids is ready.

pinkiepinkerton
5 years 6 months ago

Harris gets the large majority of starts at 3B. Punto becomes SUPER utility man ala Jerry Hairston, backing up the CF as well as SS and 3B. Casilla makes the trip north, but Billy is on the phone constantly to trade him.

You know Gardy believes Punto can do it (which he probably can) and it makes the most sense from a long term roster management standpoint. Once Casilla is dealt, Pridie gets called up…unless Valencia is crushing of course.

Also, Butera starts with the big league squad if Morales can’t go. I would be really surprised if Ramos makes the jump from AA to MLB when he is simply a fill in. Now, should Morales go down in September, then Ramos gets the call. Ramos may get a September call up anyway.

$1742854
5 years 6 months ago

NOTE: Punto has also played CF–sparingly but could fill in emergency if Span goes down.

5 years 6 months ago

I admit I am biased but I think the Twins were far from a sure thing from taking the Central. This is a good signing for the Twins and as a White Sox fan I hate it.

What it will come down to is pitching. Will the White Sox pitching make up for offense, and will the Twins pitching be good enough to take advantage of the offense.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

We’re all biased 😉

I just can’t see the White Sox having upgraded their pitching enough to make up for their lost hitting. Dye and Thome walked this year, and I’m not sure a healthy Peavy makes up for that. The whole “DH by platoon” never seems to work well. And even in pitching matchups, I’ll take Minne’s 4-5 over Chi’s.

But then again, I’m biased as well!

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

If the Twins are lucky and Liriano is actually back in form, I’d take our rotation over Chicago’s. I don’t know about the bullpen, however. I just don’t know enough about the Chisox’ pen at the moment.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

Wow did you guys even have a starter with an ERA under 4 last year?

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

No… but two were very close after poor starts and two were under until they got injured and tried playing through it before going on the DL. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Twins have three starters under 4.00 this year and four is a possibility.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

Peavy showed incredible promise last year with a 1.35 ERA in 20 innings on the White Sox, and Floyd pitched incredibly after he got shelled for the first month and a half or so. Danks is always showing signs of progress. Buehrle is pretty reliable as the ace and will have a good ERA. #5 is a real question, and although Freddy Garcia pitched well at the end, he isn’t dependable really. However, there are guys like Daniel Hudson that can come up and play well for the big club.

I don’t see any stable starter on the Twins right now other than possibly Baker, which is why taking the Twins pitching staff over the White Sox’ is perplexing.

5 years 6 months ago

The White Sox had 3 starters last year all with an ERA under 4 for the whole year and Gavin Floyd had and ERA below 3.5 in the second half.

And you are *hoping* you guys might have 3 *maaaaaybe* 4 next year under a 4 ERA? How in the world can you say that you will take your staff over ours?

Not to mention that if Garcia goes down we have Hudson who is fresh off winning the Minor League Pitcher of the Year Award.

jjalexei
5 years 6 months ago

What are the odds you get performances like that again? How many games did you win last year with a better lineup, so sure toss your starters out there for three runs and have you pen blow the 4 to 3 games all year. I team comes to mind with a great rotation good closer bad pen and terrible lineup…. the royals. Congrats on mediocrity

5 years 6 months ago

If we were talking about Thome or Dye of 2008 I would agree, but we are not. Andruw Jones hit 15 HR in half a season last year. Dye hit 28 in a full season. Mix a Kotsay in there who hits .290 against RHP and you are pretty much at a wash for Dye.

And I will take 20 HR and 20SB by Rios over 30 HR by Thome.

Again, it is all gonna come down to pitching, especially in September. When our bullpen is way more rested than Minny’s because are starters will all be inning eaters and there’s will struggle to have one below an ERA of 4.

gotts
5 years 6 months ago

I agree with you on the replacement of offensive production. I can’t agree with your pitching argument based on ERA, though

Why not use FIP? Wouldn’t that be a better indicator of starting pitching?

(2010 CHONE projections)

Peavy – 3.83
Buerhle – 4.31
Danks – 4.33
Floyd – 4.37
Garcia – 4.72

Baker – 3.97
Slowey – 4.16
Blackburn – 4.43
Pavano – 4.23
Liriano? – 4.36

I know it’s only projections and it’s an inexact science, but I think the starting pitching is a lot closer than you might think it is.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

I don’t get the Jones hype on the South Side. You do realize he signed for
$500k (admittedly a great move by Williams) for a reason, right? Because
he’s not A.Jones v2005. He’s a guy who is struggling to stay on an MLB
roster for the past couple years.

He was a great no-cost high-upside signing. It was a good gamble. But he’s
also a longshot. I see Southsiders talking about him like he’s a sure-thing
and projecting a full season out of him… confusing…

RedbirdRuffian
5 years 6 months ago

Great signing, that puts Punto on 3rd, but with the bats of Hardy and Hudson they can afford to have a great field no-hit at third. With the pitching staff Williams has put together, it should be a great battle between the Twins and Whiteys. Tigers, Indian and Royals are rebuilding and have no chance….

5 years 6 months ago

Now package something like Young/Ramos/Casilla/Slowey for an ace.

BlackBocks
5 years 6 months ago

no

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
5 years 6 months ago

Why do teams want Young?

Drew
5 years 6 months ago

Wow, yea no…

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

Nonsense.

Slowey will be an ace this year. The guy was neck-and-neck with Grienke/Doc at 10 wins until he went down with injury. He’s back at 100%.

You also just packaged together a grand total of about $1m, and only Slowey has any value. Now show me an ace who costs $1m, otherwise you’re trading you’re payroll ability to extend Mauer.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

Slowey was never actually any good, he just got a ton of run support. A 4.86 ERA does not classify your man as an ace, sorry.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

He’s also 25. I’ll take the insights of the Twins scouting and development crew over your simplistic ERA analysis any day. This is a pitching S&D system that found and produced, among others, Santana, Milton, Mays, Radke, Silva, Lohse, and Garza all in recent memory – all became top-end rotation pitchers during their time in MN (though several deteriorated shortly after).

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

If you don’t like simplistic stats like that, then we can turn to xFIP. Slowey’s was 4.23, which was actually a decline from 2008. In comparison, Gavin Floyd had a 3.69, and he only won 11 games in a full season. I wouldn’t insult my simplistic analysis when you analysis is of wins (lol). Just because he’s a Twin doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be a good pitcher, even though the team did produce many good ones in the past. If the opinion was from a rival scout, I’d take it more into perspective.

coldinduluth
5 years 6 months ago

I’m fairly certain that wins are the most important stat in baseball. It doesn’t matter how many runs/hits/walks you give up if the team wins. Could be wrong I suppose.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

But that’s not the point. Let me try to explain it more clearly. If you take a random pitcher off the scrap heap, he should provide an ERA close to that of Slowey’s last season. What I’m getting at is that if you placed a random pitcher in place of Slowey last season, he probably would have won just as many games, because of the team’s run support. Slowey doesn’t deserve very much credit for his wins.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

His ERA is only that high because he kept pitching after he got injured. Assuming he’s healthy, it’ll be a lot lower this year.

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

That’s certainly an arguable point, but his stats were still not in line with the best pitchers in April and May. In June and July (1 start) he struggled, and I assume you’re saying he was playing hurt for most of that time.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

I should mention that I’m not someone who expects Slowey to be an ace in 2010. I do think that he’ll be an above average pitcher and keep his ERA under 4.00 if he’s healthy, however. In fact, I don’t expect Slowey to ever be an ace – but I do think he’ll be a 2 or a 3 instead of a 4 or a 5. He’s got good enough stuff and has almost Maddux-like control.

The only chance the Twins have at a prototypical ace would be Liriano. After that, our best pitcher will probably be Scott Baker who I can see repeating his 2008 performance when he went 11-4 with a 3.45 ERA.

youarenotserious
5 years 6 months ago

I like pitchers who get a lot of run support. Santana was arguably the best Twins starting pitcher to put a uniform, but our team didn’t give him much to work with in the score column. I’d rather be 10-3 as a starter and have a 4.85 ERA than be 3-10 as a starter but have a 2.85 ERA

Nicolas_C
5 years 6 months ago

But the point is that the pitcher isn’t pitching well, he’s just getting lucky that his team scores behind him. It’s not like his pitching influences the team to hit well or something; it’s just luck.

Twins45
5 years 6 months ago

Slowey will be an ace? Wow. No.

You don’t think Ramos has value?

It would be great to have an ace, which IMO is needed if we wanna make it past the first round in the playoffs. I would be all for trading for an ace, just don’t know who or what we have that would interest many teams that we would be willing to part with.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

The Twins organization believes Slowey will be a legit front-end starter, yes.

Ramos has no value in terms of trading for an ace. Whenever an ace is traded, you always hear “MLB-ready talent”. Ramos doesn’t not measure up to that criteria.

Even if you could find a team willing to part with an ace (good luck there), and you could find one who would take some package from us (good luck finding one we’re willing to part with), you have the problem of payroll: we cannot afford to extend Mauer while taking on an ace’s salary.

Hence, talking about trading for an ace is just a wet dream.

Twins45
5 years 6 months ago

Prospects are normally involved when trading for an ace.

Believe me I know there is a slim chance of making a trade for a legit ace, but I just can’t see this team making it very far without one. I sure hope they can. Baker and Slowey as your #2 and #3 would be great. Liriano is the only player IMO that could fill that ace roll and thats a big question mark. Lets hope he can though! As much as I love Nathan, it’s crazy to be paying him that much when we don’t even have a legit ace.

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

You’re really going to use wins as a reason to call Slowey an ace? I agree he shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances, but come on. It’s not 1960… Wins are a useless stat and everyone knows it.

Slowey’s value lies in his incredible control and his K:BB ratio that’s superior at this point in his career to the mark where even Greg Maddux was at during the same juncture of his career.

He needs to limit his fly balls either by inducing more ground balls or finding a definitive out pitch to up his K rate. He’s not there yet, but Slowey has the potential to be a front-end starter if he can manage to do one or both of those things. He may not ever be a dominant ace, but he can be a great MLB pitcher with that control and a plus K-rate.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

Note to self: Don’t use any statistic on MLBTR, because others will find supplemental stats to either reinforce or disagree with you.

I’m well aware of Slowey’s superior control, seeing as I’ve literally watched every career MLB inning he’s ever thrown (I’ve only missed 7 Twins games since 2001). I’m also well aware the Twins coaching and scouting believe he’ll match Radke’s career.

I just threw out wins because it went overlooked last year by baseball at large, it’s the simplest measure, and I didn’t care to take three paragraphs to make my point.

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

It’s not a simple way to measure though. The best you can do with Wins is generalize. “He won 22 games, he’s probably good.” or “He lost 19 games, he’s probably bad.”

Slowey’s 10 wins were in spite of himself. He wasn’t pitching very well at all in 2009. It’s just tough to label a guy an ace when he’s sporting an ERA just a tick under 5.00. Is Slowey better than that? Of course he is, but Wins don’t tell almost any of a pitcher’s story. They’re an antiquated stat that should basically be ignored in my opinion. A pitcher’s record doesn’t correlate too much with his ability. If your team scores runs, you win games… even if you suck.

TwinsVet
5 years 6 months ago

Half of Slowey’s starts last year he went over 6 innings with 2 or less
earned runs. His ERA (another overrated tool – but we can agree no single
stat is definitive) was inflated from two bad opening outings and two
outings before going on the DL with (essentially) a broken wrist.

I’m not playing the “take out this game and that game and we can make his
stats look good!” garbage – but the guy showed he can go long spells of time
with superior outings. Anybody who plays through an injury that’s
ultimately season-ending gets distorted stats (consider your boy Justin,
playing about 4 weeks with a broken back pulling him numbers down last
year).

Yes, Wins can be by the offense instead of the pitcher. But 8 of his 10
wins were quality starts – 6IP+ and 3ER or less.

gotts
5 years 6 months ago

Slowey is a #2 starter at best.

danks50
5 years 6 months ago

You REALLY need to chill with your apparent massive homerism as your really starting to make a fool of yourself on this website. Using wins to measure a pitchers success and comparing a middle of the rotation starter to Zack freakin Grienke? Wow.

I understand that the Twins have been making solid moves and its a reason to get excited, however throwing around the ace label to any pitcher you see fit without any merit is ridiculous. At this point assuming the O-Dog signs with the Twins I see them as being a forerunner in this race however their rotation has a long way to go before anyone can be considered an ace.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

This is just a fun website, It might be hard to understand but fans get excited, and Morneau vp has a right to his opinion. You are the one who is making a fool of yourself.
And as far as Grienke being an ace you can use any stat you want but when you have a life time earned run average of almost 4 runs a game you are far from an ace. He had a big 2009 season but if you want to call him an ace let him put an earned run avg. of 2.50. And if you walk into a General Managers office with a 3.74 ERA an you want ace money and present as you say stats that are not obsolete you will be laughed out of his office. So like you said WOW!

danks50
5 years 6 months ago

First off I replied to Twinsvet, secondly Zack Grienke has posted an era of 3.69, 3.47, 2.16 over the last three years. If you want to include the one bad season he had at the age of 21 that brings his career era down to a still excellent 3.74 go ahead, but he’s put 3 solid seasons together with the last being one of the individual seasons of the past decade. He’s an ace despite your idiotic 2.50 era requirement which exactly none of Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Jake Peavy, CC Sabathia, etc even come close to meeting.

ivdown
5 years 6 months ago

Did you just seriously say Greinke isn’t an ace because of his career ERA? I seriously hope not, because that would make you look like a complete idiot. Greinke was the best pitcher in 2009, and was a very good pitcher in 2008. He’s always been a very good prospect, and I think he was rushed to the majors at a very young age, which is why he looked so bad for his first couple or few years.

Greinke is more of an ace than all but maybe 3 pitchers in baseball.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

Get a life.

markjsunz
5 years 6 months ago

You E-mail people that they make fools of themselves and are complete idiots. Grow up little boy it is a baseball website where opinions other then your own are expressed. Show some respect for people who have an opinion other then your own or you will have some harsh life lessons. And baseball by the way baseball is entertainment nothing more then going to a movie. So again I tell you get a life little boy.

Drew
5 years 6 months ago

I do agree that Ramos is great trade bait at some point, especially when we get the Mauer extension done. Him or Morales. No sense hoarding three great offensive catchers when we could be reaping benefits (most likely other high-level prospects at different positions) from dealing them.

5 years 6 months ago

How about this for an offensively minded (yet unlikely) lineup:
CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
3B Cuddyer
DH Thome
RF Kubel
LF Young
SS Hardy

BlackBocks
5 years 6 months ago

No chance Cuddyer plays 3b…but that lineup is scary. Gardy take notes. haha

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

Agreed, no chance, haha, but man that’d be something.

5 years 6 months ago

If Hudson indeed signs with Minnesota it will be a GREAT move by the Twins. They had holes at 2B and 3B and now with Hudson playing second, Harris and/or Punto can play 3B. I can live with either one there if Hudson is signed. I sure hope this is more than just a mirage, make it happen Mr. Smith!

$1742854
5 years 6 months ago

Tolbert can go down to AAA for depth to keep Casilla, who can back up 2B and SS (his natural position). Sucks that Punto is eating up $4 million, so the Twins will probably play him somewhere. Though Harris’ glove isn’t as good as Punto’s, his potential offense is WAAAAY better.

Free Brendan Harris–let him get some consistent AB’s!

CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
SS Hardy
LF Young
3B Harris–better protection for Delmon than Punto would be.

Deviation
5 years 6 months ago

Unfortunately, you know all too well that Harris will spend chunks of the season in Gardy’s doghouse and Punto will get the ABs.

TwinsFan
5 years 6 months ago

“Slowey was never actually any good, he just got a ton of run support. A 4.86 ERA does not classify your man as an ace, sorry.”

I see where you’re coming from but Slowey was actually much better than that last year. His first two or three starts were horrible and had his ERA in the upper 5’s but he then went on a stretch of roughtly 10 starts where he was absolutely phenomenal, actually getting his ERA back into the upper 3’s. Shortly after that, though, his wrist started giving him major problems and he tried to pitch through it which resulted in 3 horrible starts and his ERA jumping back up to 4.86. So while on the surface that ERA looks pretty rough it should be noted that it only jumped up that high because he was trying to pitch with practically a broken wrist.

scottz0113
5 years 6 months ago

Oh, please let this be true! Punto could still play 3 out of every 5 days (I’d prefer 1 out of 5, but I’m not Gardy) by filling in for 3H (Hudson, Hardy, or Harris). I think this lineup would be better than ’87 or ’91:
Span – CF
Hudson – 2B
Mauer – C
Morneau – 1B
Cuddyer – RF
Kubel – DH
Young – LF
Hardy – SS
Harris – 3B

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

Punto’s starting at 3B over Harris if the Twins sign Hudson still. Harris will fill the same utility role as always and play all over/take over when Punto’s average creeps below the Mendoza Line.

scottz0113
5 years 6 months ago

I agree Punto would likely be given the position, but I’d prefer Harris with LNP falling into a supersub role (“super” being a debatable term).

$1529282
5 years 6 months ago

Punto’s glove and speed at the bottom of the order will likely be more valuable than Harris’ somewhat better bat. Punto’s best defensive position is 3B, he’s getting paid like a starter… Twins may as well play him. Harris will still get his ABs, but the team doesn’t need any more offense in the lineup anyway by the time you’re talking about Punto vs. Harris in the 9-hole. In years past, I’d have said I’d rather have Harris’ bat, but the Twins lineup is stacked at this point; we can afford a defensive-minded player batting ninth.

Besides, with our terrible OF defense, we need a solid infield defense, and Punto’s far better than Brendan with the glove.

pinkiepinkerton
5 years 6 months ago

I wonder if with only four bench spots that Punto becomes a true SUPER utility, backing up the OF as well, ala Jerry Hairston. There’s no question Gardy would be fine with this and really, this is the only way to not release Casilla. Pridie is still just a call away should you need a long term solution in the OF.

dickylarue
5 years 6 months ago

Love what the Twins are doing this off season. Hudson would be a great addition to that lineup that has always felt a bit short. He’ll lengthen it and give good defense to boot.