Phillies Exploring Oswalt, Werth Trades

The Phillies are exploring acquiring Roy Oswalt and moving Jayson Werth in a companion trade, reports ESPN's Jayson Stark.  GM Ruben Amaro Jr. says nothing is close, but Ed Price of AOL FanHouse says the Oswalt talks are "heavy."  Oswalt has yet to be presented with a deal for his approval.  Stark says the Phils have also discussed Dan Haren, Jeremy Guthrie, and Ben Sheets as they leave no rock unturned.  As for Werth, Stark believes the Rays "head the list of interested teams."  The impending free agent would be moved to save money, stock the farm system, and open up a spot for Domonic Brown.  Stark says the Red Sox, Giants, and Padres are also interested in Werth.

The Phillies recently optioned Kyle Kendrick to the minors and lost Jamie Moyer to an elbow strain, so they could use starting pitching depth. GM Ruben Amaro Jr. hinted today that the club could acquire a starter by Saturday. The Phils have already committed $135MM to next year's payroll, so adding an expensive arm like Haren or Oswalt would take some maneuvering.

One candidate to start Saturday, or perhaps be traded, is J.A. Happ.  Stark says the Phillies have shopped the lefty, and the Astros scouted him on Tuesday.

Click here to predict the Phillies next move.

228 Responses to Phillies Exploring Oswalt, Werth Trades Leave a Reply

  1. HerbertAnchovy 5 years ago

    I’d say Oswalt.

  2. Haren? Oswalt? Those are the few ‘major’ pitchers available.

  3. That’d be my guess. Anyone else available that would be called, “front-line starter?”

  4. ELPinchy 5 years ago


    (just kidding!)

  5. Red Sox for Dan Bard or Michael Bowden ?

    • Two things:
      1. The Phillies wouldn’t trade Happ or Werth for Bowden because that would be a major downgrade.
      2. The Red Sox wouldn’t trade Bard in a deal for anyone who is available right now (and they may never even trade him if they have the chance to get any of the best players in the game, that’s how much they value him). He is to valuable to the Sox as their future closer and currently best pitcher in the bullpen and their bullpen is the place that needs the most help right now so it wouldn’t make any sense to trade him.

  6. Utley4God 5 years ago

    CSNPhilly mentioned James Shields earlier.

    • I can see Shields, he’s a lot cheaper. Phillies are on a budget, right?

      • No Thanks. Remember, you get what you pay for. Both Haren & Sheilds deal large doses of the long-ball, and as we all know that is a bad combination with CBP. Oswalt is the answer to the pitching situation, if we can manage to free up enough salary space for him. Maybe move Werth and promote Dominic Brown to the majors. It looks like the Phils are going to have to open the wallets a little more unless they plan on surrendering this season.

    • The Rays are not trading Shields. They’re in the middle of a heat divisional race with the Yankees, and are not looking to break up their rotation (which is the only one in the Majors to stay completely intact thus far this season).

  7. i think Ruben Amaro just loves to make big trades without thinking about the consequences. I would laugh if they completely destroy the farm by making a big trade.

    • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

      He thinks the Phillies are his fantasy baseball team.

      • Most GM’s in 2010 sign/trade for verifiable baseball skill.
        Amaro signs/trades for hits, RBI’s, Dingaz, Wins, Saves, and Clutch. Can’t wait until the 70-92 Phillies have the 2nd highest payroll in MLB. It’s the Mariners w/ Bavasi all over again.

        • so the Phillies are going to go 24-45 from here on out? Keep dreaming.

          yeah this crazy big-budget team is not what I’m used to, growing up with terrible Phils teams since 96. However, I don’t think Amaro is completely screwing things up

          • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

            I think he meant down the line, not this year.

        • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

          Dingaz hahaaha!!

  8. Oswalt not getting dealt until he is Astros career wins leader. Philly probably pulling another 3 team deal again.

    • seanbergmanrules 5 years ago

      That likely won’t happen unless they keep him past the trade deadline. When he had to leave his last start early it pretty much killed that goal.

  9. JVDahlem 5 years ago

    Vazquez is a possibility too, I would think

  10. if it’s a multi-team deal, somehow I think the Jays are involved there somewhere . . .

    • dizzle4 5 years ago

      Wouldn’t shock me.

      Marcum to Philly, Werth to wherever (Tampa?), and prospects from that team to the Jays? Doesn’t seem crazy to me.

      • zeroes 5 years ago

        Hmm..The Jays tell the press Marcum has a blister may not be able to start Friday and are preparing Rzepczynski to start as a backup plan. Meanwhile, Marcum tells the press he’s perfectly fine, and he should be ready to pitch. Hmm.. probably just a coincidence, but….

        • dizzle4 5 years ago

          Yeah, I wouldn’t read much into that. Marcum clearly had a blister in his last start, but who knows?

      • Sniderlover 5 years ago

        Yeah I think Marcum may make a lot of sense. He’s making peanuts right now so who knows. Maybe AA will get even more creative and send Downs and Marcum in a package together while Phillies trade Werth to a different team for prospects and that would be flipped to us.

        Should be interesting.

        • The fact that Marcum makes basically nothing should mean that the Jays wouldn’t move him, right? The Jays have a load of good starting pitching but we all know that can disappear in a second.

          • Sniderlover 5 years ago

            But they also have a log jam at pitching with a 6-man rotation right now (Morrow being skipped). There is also Stewart and Drabek who are close to MLB ready and still a pitcher like Mills who can step in if there is an injury.

            Rotation of Romero, Cecil, Morrow, Zep, Litsch is not that bad. That being said, I wouldn’t just trade Marcum for the sake of trading Marcum. He is a solid #2 starter and a leader for this rotation but if you can get an enticing offer, then it’s worth considering.

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            The ‘log jam’ your referring to was creating by inning limitations not by an over saturtion of supreme talent. If that were the case, they would have left litsch in the minor to get his arm strength back instead of rushing him along. Marcum’s value won’t depreciate in the next year, he’s still young, cheap and consistant. Barring injury his value should be the same next year as it is this year.. and this year they need his innings.. Unless richmond and shawn hill can make some starts in september they need to rely on him atleast a little while longer.

            That being said.. Stewart and Drabek are still ways away, Drabek has started to come around, but both are walking too many batters. Stewarts whip is at 1.45. They may one day make it who knows, but to say they are mlb ready is a bit off. I doubt either makes the big league club next year. … lastly, mills i don’t even want to mention, he will be a career minor leaguer. He relies too much on deception and doesn’t have the stuff to be anything more then a middle reliever, if that.. Robbie Ray would be a more formidable option if anything, but again command has become an issue.

      • If Marcum is available, he would probably come at a cheaper price than Oswalt and his numbers are somewhat comparable. I wouldn’t mind seeing that deal happen. Losing Jayson would be a downer, but he’ll end up walking at the end of the season anyway. Bring up D. Brown and get a solid pitcher for Werth and I’m happy.

      • I’ll tell you what, you the Rays could use a guy like Jayson Werth.

        • Werth is the biggest Jackass on the planet… he is Clubhouse Asbestos… first hand experience from his days in Syracuse (AAA)

  11. penpaper 5 years ago

    Well the rumor of Oswalt to Philly, Werth to “unknown team” and said unknown gets prospects continues to grow…

  12. where does werth end up?

  13. LOL at the Phillies

    • phillies08 5 years ago

      I know they’re terrible right now but please tell me what your favorite team is.

      • It’s not because of their play, it’s because they’re going to give up a ton of prospects for another ace, when they could have just kept Lee for nothing.

        • dude totally if they kept lee none of this woulda happened and the philz would have atleast ten-twelve more wins and would probly be right in the nl east race…….thanks r.a.j……..but id like to get haren trade werth to rays for desmond jennings, wade davis,and tim beckham……then trade wade davis, tim beckham, anthony gose, and jarred cosart……i think thats a pretty fair package for either

          • jdub220 5 years ago

            Werth couldn’t get Jennings, Davis AND Beckham. No way.

          • yea ik……….a guy can dream right

          • Why would the Rays move any of those players for Werth? Maybe Davis…

          • phillyphan26 5 years ago

            If the Rays were offering Desmond Jennings in any deal it would have been done immediately. No way the Rays trade him they would trade BJ before they gave up Jennings. And I’m not saying that will happen but Jennings is a stud.

        • but idk if the rays would give all that up for a half a season of struggling werth

          • They wouldn’t even give that up for a full 2 seasons of a Werth at the top of his game. Jennings is projected to be even better than Carl Crawford, Davis is projected to be a number 2 or 3 starter, and Beckham is one of their top prospects who ranked #67 on the top 100 prospect list to start the season and he’s only 20. I could see a deal of either Shields or Davis plus a B prospect getting the trade done.

          • true ik…thats probly what the philz would need to get either but thats y there probly wont b a trade

          • I figured you weren’t serious. The Phils should have just kept Lee. It would have made a lot more since because they would have possible the best pitcher in the game and would still have one of the best farm systems in baseball.

          • vtadave 5 years ago

            Just curious who projects Jennings to be greater than Crawford….

          • Some scouting reports say he is a Carl Crawford but with more plate discipline and power (I’ve read them in the past and can’t recall where I read them now). He’s having a down year this year but no doubt in my mind he is going to be damn good.

          • CosaOne 5 years ago

            I agree they would never give up that package for a half season of Werth but cant agree that Jennings is projected to be better than Crawford. Crawford is a tremendously valuable player, and Jennings doesnt (or at least hasnt shown) that he has comparable power to Crawford

          • Yankees420 5 years ago

            Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but if you look at their minor league stats, they are very comparable, the major difference being that Crawford was in AAA at age 20, whereas Jennings is 23 now.

        • Am I the only one who liked the Lee dump (for highest possible return) and grabbing Halladay (a true no. 1) for only committing 60mm and prospects? Look at the stats, Lee has only had 3 good years (yes, they were SOLID), but the bottom line is the PHI is better for a longer period of time because they grabbed Halladay. End of Story. Roy Oswalt is priced below market value but teams are shy of his 31mm remaining commitment. Do you know what that means? You can grab him for minimum farm loss. Roy O is the far more proven and consistent pitcher of the 2. He is worth the money and works miracles in the no. 2 spot. That is an amazing 1-2 punch for substantially lesser commitment than if Lee were in the rotation long term. PHI has built a team full of leaders, role players, and stars. They actually know what they’re doing, so let’s not be too hasty to question their moves.

          • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

            I agree with you… but c’mon man, Lee has proven he is a true number 1. I was one of his biggest skeptics, but the guy proved me wrong.

  14. Arizona doesn’t make sense for Werth unless he is moved to the Yankees or Red Sox as the 3rd team in possible deal.

  15. Maybe instead of Werth, its Ibanez to the White Sox who need a legit power lefty.

  16. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    What ever move they make would need to be a move that could impact them this year, and next year/beyond. Oswalt and Haren make too much money for the Phillies, and to be honest, starting pitching may be the least of their worries. This team could solve a lot of problems by themselves if they just start hitting. Howard and Polanco are the only 2 guys hitting. Their entire outfield doest hit. Guys are underachieving on this team right now. Trading Werth makes sense, but I think they should wait until the deadline to see if they cant start to hit again, and if they trade him, then Amaro better get something good for him.

    • jwsox 5 years ago

      haren does not, his contract is very team friendly for the type of pitcher he is, a guy who has dominated in the AL and NL and just had a bad season so far. Haren would be amazing for the phillies I doubt they have the prospects to get hiim unless there is a 3rd team involved

      • Yankees420 5 years ago

        If Dominic Brown were made available, I’m sure he could be the centerpiece in a Haren deal…..problem is that he has the “untouchable” label on him. (and for good reason)

    • zolttt 5 years ago

      i have been saying this for 2 weeks… IF they trade werth, why cant they sign jermaine dye? he stinks in the outfield, but it gives them a 30 hr right handed bat, whos career average isnt much worse than jayson werths.

      • It makes sense but it doesn’t make sense. Dye has been a very good player throughout his career and possible could do the same for the Phils. But he hasn’t played ball all year and is out of shape and even if he gets back into shape he is old. So you may get a good Dye but in my opinion you probably wouldn’t.

        • Dye doesn’t belong in the NL. Poor defense, good bat if he can shake all the rust off form not playing all season. Also, he has to quit be an idiot thinking he is worth more than $1 million for the rest of the season. Maybe a decent bat off the bench for an AL team.

        • zolttt 5 years ago

          i fully agree, but if they sign him to a minor league deal, play fransisco for a week or 2 and let him get the rust off, he could be very worth it. He is definitely a platoon option, and a low risk high reward option offense wise… but obviously a liability in the field, but so is ibanez and he is doing nothing offensively.

          i dont think he is a perfect solution, but it allows you to get more back for werth and not have to try and get a bat as well in return.

      • Yankees420 5 years ago

        Look up Dye’s 2nd half numbers from last season, then say he’d be a good thing for the Phillies.

  17. Why not Fausto Carmona?

  18. Belandsexo 5 years ago

    Why didn’t they just keep Lee, hahahaha

  19. dizzle4 5 years ago

    Just to add, from Olney: Some of the pitchers the Phillies WERE NOT talking about, as of early Tuesday evening: Ben Sheets, any of the Rays’ pitchers and Dan Haren.

    • James DeMott 5 years ago

      amending my post subtract Haren, Shields, and Sheets from anything I said. Haha

  20. James DeMott 5 years ago

    I can see Shields, though, I wouldn’t consider him a major pitcher. I don’t think Shields would give them the push they need to get past the Mets or the Braves. I can’t imagine the Yankees would ship Vazquez away, although, his post-season stats are iffy. Ted Lilly, Ben Sheets, Fausto Carmona, and even Edwin Jackson would all be viable options, but the East is a hard division and all of those guys have been hittable.

  21. juice587 5 years ago

    If it is a three team deal and the Phils are trading Werth it wouldn’t go down unless they got a decent right handed bat back to protect Howard…. otherwise what would be the point of trading for a pitcher while trading Werth? If Toronto is involved I could see Werth going to Tampa – BJ Upton going to Toronto along with a prospect from the Rays or Phils and Marcum and Bautista heading to Philly. Bautista could play 3rd until Utley comes back shifting Polanco to 2nd and when Utley is back Bautista takes over in left field with Brown called up to play right field.

    • Sniderlover 5 years ago

      That could actually work.

      However, a prospect with Upton would have to be pretty good with Marcum having a great year and will be a #2 starter while Bautista continues to tear it up. He’s 3-6 today with 1 HR (26) and 5 RBI

    • depending if the phillies would have to give up another top prospect i would say ruben is a genious but who would play right field

      • juice587 5 years ago

        Come on! Domonic Brown! He’s tearing it up in AAA….

  22. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    if its not a Rays pitcher, Haren, or Sheets, then its going to be a second tier starter such as Edwin Jackson/Fausto Carmona/Ted Lilly. Those are all good moves, but not great moves as the reports make it seem.

    Oswalt is not going to be moved, especially to a team like the Phillies who cannot afford him. Houston is asking the world and wont eat any of his salary.

    • if theyre trying to get a second tier pitcher then why would they try to trade werth?

  23. the mets will probably choke again i mean theyre losing as many games as the phillies and the braves will most likely start to lose some games too. But could you imagine a rotation of doc/oswalt or haren/hamels/blanton/happ and if they are all on the top of their game that would be almost unstoppable and in a best of 5 series we would put 3 aces on the mound and not only for this year but for the next couple years. Though I think they should also get a bat too not only for utley but for when he comes back we would have a ligitimate bat on the bench. And even though this is very unlikely but what he they went and got back Lee. DOC/Lee/Haren or Oswalt/Hamels/Blanton or Happ haha

  24. cbcbcb 5 years ago

    Even though the Phillies have been rather pathetic this year, Oswalt would have to be really, really picky to veto a trade to the two time defending NL champions in the 4th largest tv market

    • frank_costanza 5 years ago

      He would have to be borderline retarded. Halladay, Hamels, Utley, Howard, Rollins, Victorino, Polanco, Ruiz, all under contract for the foreseeable future? The Phillies window to win extends as long as all of these guys are there.

      • Can’t wait until 2012 with 35 y/o Halladay, 33 y/o Utley, 32 y/o Howard, 33 y/o Rollins, 31 y/o Victorino, 36 y/o Polanco, and 33 y/o Ruiz for lots and lots of money, making it incredibly difficult to build a supporting cast, as the other 4 teams in the division have major youth movements. Formula for success!

  25. wickedkevin 5 years ago

    If it is Oswalt and the Astros, then I’d have to say Happ is involved. I don’t understand how Werth could help them.

  26. Kitfisto007 5 years ago

    Werth to Red Sox. J.A Happ, Ryan Kalish, Michael Bowden to Astros. Roy Oswalt and Low level minor leaguer “prospect” from the Red Sox to the Phillies.

    • dizzle4 5 years ago

      Seems pretty fair/realistic.

      • damnitsderek 5 years ago

        Except for the words “Astros” and “prospect” being used in the same breath.

    • wickedkevin 5 years ago

      I would be ecstatic if Werth came to the Sox. I just left the Paw Sox though, and Kalish is looking good.

    • I think the Stros would jump on that in a second! Just seems like a lot for the sox to give up for half a year of Werth.

    • Given that I just recently pimped trading Ellsbury because of Kalish (and my faith in Nava to be a bridge), hell and no.

      Put Ellsbury in there, with how Kalish is looking, Red Sox fans will forget that bizarre route-running, free-swinging no-power option in no time.

  27. NYBravosFan10 5 years ago

    If Ruben lands Oswalt with no money and few prospects available he is a genius

    • No, he’s a moron. He gave up Lee for garbage in the offseason, and now with his team on the verge of collapse, is going to empty out the rest of his farm system for an aging ace who’s owed a lot of money. Oh, and he’s going to weaken the team’s offense as well when he trades Werth.

      • i agree with the Lee thing but werth has sucked with risp this year and really hasnt done anything so far this season and i bet dom brown would do better than werth has so far this year and who cares if they trade him cause he wasnt going to stay after this year and if they can get an ace out of a deal for him i would have no problem saying goodbye to him and his beard

        • dire straits 5 years ago

          His beard alone should be worth a top-tier prospect

      • PHLPVD 5 years ago

        I’m a big critic of Amaro too, but you say he’s both going to empty out the farm system and weaken the team’s offense by trading Werth, but really only the second part is going to happen. The prospects acquired by trading Werth will probably be the ones to go towards getting a pitcher. I’d hope the Phillies don’t plan in throwing in much else, they really need to keep the talent they have on their low level minor league rosters.

    • JoeDonBaker33 5 years ago

      Well to be fair, there’s zero chance of the Phillies sending money Houston’s way – Oswalt is owed a lot as it is. As for prospects, Ed Wade may be frequently criticized, but he won’t give up Oswalt for nothing

      • NYBravosFan10 5 years ago

        That’s exactly why Wade is a complete moron. He wants too much. I know Oswalt is valuable but seriously be realistic. He’s probably gonna want Happ, Brown, Utley, Howard, Victorino and a lifetime gift card to Gino’s for Oswalt along with wanting the Phillies to take on ALL the money.

      • Yankees420 5 years ago

        When has a team ever traded for a big contract and also sent money on top of absorbing said big contract?

        (Not including bad contract for bad contract such as Bradley for Silva)

  28. if the phillies get some great prospects for werth would you want to hold on to them and start rebuilding your farm or trade for a second tier guy and just hope everything works out?

  29. bevothephenom 5 years ago

    i think its gonna be oswalt…..i could see a the teams eating half salary….but why would werth go to houston? pence and bourn are there to stay and i dont see lee leaving….thats making me think its a 3 team deal

  30. can everyone get off the Lee thing. yes we understand amaro made a awful mistake get over it. the thing about it werth isnt going to the jays. he is only going to a contender who needs a bat. you flip the prospect you get for werth to the astros and some of your prospects and hope that oswalt accepts. i was getting ready for bed and than this crap happens now i will be up all night wondering what the f is going to happen

  31. penpaper 5 years ago

    So who needs sleeping pills right about now? Damn, this will be my mind working all night haha

  32. coolstorybro222 5 years ago

    Happ, Ben Fransico and Kyle Kendrick for Roy Oswalt

  33. darkdonnie 5 years ago

    Sounds like it’s gonna be Oswalt.

  34. As a Red Sox fan, I’m not worried about the Werth to Tampa rumors. Theo has had a history of getting the guys the Rays want. (See Jason Bay and Victor Martinez.)

    • The Rays have never shopped for Jason Bay or Victor Martinez. You should know the AL East teams are always rumored to “want” the same guys to keep one another on their toes. Maybe they looked at Victor Martinez but not seriously. It was only one year removed of an All-Star Navarro.

  35. jb1996 5 years ago

    The Rays will bea good fit for Werth! They can possibly lose Crawford and Upton and they could get David Price for him! That will be a sick trade! Werth for Price!

    • penpaper 5 years ago

      Price wouldn’t be traded, you’re absolutely crazy. The guy is basically untouchable at this point.I doubt Hellickson will get moved either. And forget about Jennings!

    • Worse Fantasy GM of the Year Award. Congrats!

    • Typical Phillies fan.


    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      The Rays might need to throw Longoria in there to make it worthwhile for the Phililes.

  36. bevothephenom 5 years ago

    i just heard on philly radio reports are indicating werth to the rays for shields and a prospect……this way the phils call up brown and the rays call up hellickson

    • JoeDonBaker33 5 years ago

      What about Oswalt? Off the table, or the Phils use all their own prospects (no incoming prospects for Werth)?

      Rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt, Shields, and Fat Joe would overtake the Braves, no question

    • juice587 5 years ago

      I don’t think the Phils would trade Werth for Shields and prospect unless it was Jennings… which the Rays would never do .The deal would mean they are giving up on this season because you lose your #5 hitter

      • bevothephenom 5 years ago

        dom brown is better than werth

        • Sniderlover 5 years ago

          Brown hasn’t even played a game in MLB yet and you are saying he is already better than Werth. C’mon man.

          He’ll be a good player, perhaps even great but he is not an upgrade over Werth right now.

          • juice587 5 years ago

            Brown is left handed also- Even if he is a stud you make it easy for an opposing manager late in the game with Utley, Ibanez, Howard and Brown all being left handed and no right handed power to speak of in the lineup. You can’t trade Werth and not get a right handed power hitting bat and expect to win this year. If Werth is traded it will be in a three way deal or the Phils will make a subsequent deal to fill the huge hole Werth leaves in the lineup.

          • jwredsox 5 years ago

            This x1000000

        • juice587 5 years ago

          How many home runs does have Brown have in the majors?

      • TradeYouk 5 years ago

        Shields is scheduled to make 4.25 million next year then for 12-14 the Phils would hold club options of 7, 9 and 12 million dollars respectively.

        That is a real good return for 1/2 year of Werth, who the Phils won’t resign anyways unless they someone trick a GM into taking Ibanez.

        • juice587 5 years ago

          That may be true in a financial sense but if you are Amaro how do you sell that to the fans?? Shields has been terrible the past two months, so you maybe improve your pitching slightly and you significantly weaken your lineup. I don’t think that the trade would make sense. Shields is not enough to turn the season around so why make the trade? Werth has proven to go on tears. He is more likely to turn it around and help the club than Shields a second tier pitcher at best could do.

          • TradeYouk 5 years ago

            No one likes seeing a popular middle of the order bat go, but it helps that they have Dom Brown to take his place, and also the fact that its a pretty much a foregone conclusion he walks at the end of the year should ease the pain a little bit. Also if you look at Shields peripherals, you can see that he has pitched a lot better than his ERA indicates, and he would be moving from the AL east to the NL which should further help his numbers.

            I don’t see the Rays giving up any someone like Jennings or Hellickson for Werth, and even Shields seems like an overpayment given Werth’s contract status. It may sting Phils fans at first, but when you look at it closely, its almost a no brainer to make that deal.

          • juice587 5 years ago

            With Brown being a left handed hitter you have no one to protect Howard in the lineup. As much as I agree it makes sense in the future, that trade essentially eliminates the Phils from making a run this season. You then go into next season still straddled with Ibanez’ contract and too many left handed hitting players. The Phils recognized this last year when they moved Werth to hit behind Howard. I have to believe that Amaro recognizes this and is trying to fill the void Werth leaves as a right handed power hitter.

          • Muggi 5 years ago

            I don’t think it’s wise, but I see the Phils trading Werth and batting Rollins in the 5 for the rest of the season…which means Victorino back in the 1. My blood pressure is rising…

          • Sniderlover 5 years ago

            I think Bautista and Marcum would A LOT of sense for Phillies. Get a power right handed bat to replace Howard and it helps he can play in a friendly park and they would get a #2 starter in Marcum.

      • Yankees420 5 years ago

        Meant to hit reply instead of like fwiw.

        And I highly doubt the Rays would trade Shields+ (club options running from ’12-’14) for a 2 month rental of a struggling Jayson Werth. I’m not even sure they’d trade him straight up.

    • RBIBaseball 5 years ago

      no way the Rays trade shield, he’s their third best starter, garza has fallen off a bit, and I feel that Niemann will regress. This is their year for the Rays because the next few years may involve a little rebuilding.

  37. dizzle4 5 years ago

    Going by the “two starters and a reliever” comment from Houston, how about this?

    To Phillies: Roy Oswalt
    To Rays: Jayson Werth
    To Houston: Wade Davis (TB), JA Happ (PHI), Scott Mathieson (PHI)

    • Yoni Pollak 5 years ago

      houston doesn’t need mathieson…gimme a infield prospect!

      • dizzle4 5 years ago

        I’m not sure what they need, just by what it was reported that they asked for.

        • Yoni Pollak 5 years ago

          not surprised a reliever was asked for…wade loves his relievers

    • Sounds fair to me but you know the Astro’s GM is going to want more.

  38. myname_989 5 years ago

    I can’t see the Phils dealing for Shields. He’s just not the kind of starter they are looking for. I don’t think (don’t bite my head off and take me too literally) that the budget is much of a factor here for the Phils. I mean, they have revenue to spend. Here you have a team that won three straight National League pennants, has been to the World Series in two straight years, and won one of them. This team HAS money to spend on a guy like Oswalt. Budgets are a guideline that are easily readjusted.

    In my mind, the Rays make the perfect third team. They can take on Werth’s remaining, and most importantly, benefit from adding his bat into the lineup. The Phillies acquire two good prospects for Werth (Don’t forget, Werth is a lock to gain Type A status, boosting his trade value) and I don’t think it’s completely absurd to ask for one of Desmond Jennings, Jeremy Hellickson, or Tim Beckham. That being said… I highly doubt the first tow are going anywhere. Lol. On the other hand, the Rays have sort of made Wade Davis (with Hellickson looming) and Reid Brigniac (involved in talks with the Braves for Yunel Escobar) available. I don’t necessarily think that asking for one of the Rays top 5 prospects and a mid level prospect is completely absurd for Werth, especially if the Phillies include salary relief. (Getting a Type A for nothing is a sure fire way to get a Top 5 prospect). The Phillies also pulled JA Happ from his start in Lehigh Valley tonight in the third inning, no injury involved. Pitch count has not been a factor, as his rehab assignment had ended. I think a likely deal could look like:

    Phillies get Roy Oswalt; Rays get Jayson Werth; Astros get JA Happ, Desmond Jennings, Wade Davis.

    Obviously, prospects are interchangeable. One would assume that the Rays wouldn’t mind dealing Hellickson for the right deal, but wouldn’t keep both Davis and Hellickson. Like I said before, a top 5 Rays prospect might not be going anywhere, but it’s definitely a strong possibility. A deal like this works on all sides in my opinion.

    • Yoni Pollak 5 years ago

      im a Houston fan…I would love that deal!!!

    • TradeYouk 5 years ago

      I would be absolutely shocked if a team with the Rays payroll traded prospects of the caliber of Jennings or Hellickson and their 6 years of control for a 1/2 year of Werth. Even if they got a 1st round and supplemental pick for their troubles, thats 2 additional signing bonuses they would have to pay out, whereas if they keep Jennings and Hellickson, their signing bonuses have already been taken care of. Then you also have to consider the normal caveats of not getting a 1st round pick if a team signs Werth and another higher rated Type A. I don’t think it will happen, but if the Yanks went with Cliff Lee and Werth for example, the Rays get a supplemental and a late second round pick.

    • juice587 5 years ago

      It makes sense but who do the Phis hit behind Howard the rest of the way? Oswalt helps their staff but their already struggling lineup takes a major blow.

    • Muggi 5 years ago

      IMO both Philly and the Rays are giving up too much in that scenario…Oswalt is good, but he’s he’s not two MLB starters+top3 in baseball prospect good. That’s practically Pujols territory (kidding).

      Seriously though, the Astros will get a nice package, but not THAT nice.

    • SixtoLezcano 5 years ago

      You’re kidding, right?

      The Phillies would not give up Werth and Happ for Roy Oswalt. The Rays would not give up Desmond Jennings for Jayson Werth. I can only hope you are a Houston Astros fan who is having a laugh.

    • das411 5 years ago

      “Phillies get Roy Oswalt; Rays get Jayson Werth; Astros get JA Happ, Desmond Jennings, Wade Davis. ”

      ^ this deal but BJ Upton instead of Dez Jennings leaving Tampa Bay might make sense all three ways…the only problem is that with Pence, Bourn and Lee in the OF, Houston doesn’t need the Bossman nearly as much as the Phils could use him…

    • damnitsderek 5 years ago

      Dude, Hellickson is as untouchable as they come. He’s not going anywhere anytime soon except for Tropicana Field.

  39. penpaper 5 years ago

    I just don’t see Jennings going anywhere. I really think that he’s in the top 5 most unlikely trade candidates to be traded in the minors right now. Just rumbling here though lol

  40. No more Philadelphia outfielders to the Tampa Bay Rays organization! It’s not Werth it. Get it??!!

  41. three way teams, I like it.

  42. bballstud16 5 years ago

    There is ZERO chance Desmond Jennings goes anywhere. There is a slim chance Hellickson goes anywhere. Wade Davis could possibly be moved, but again I doubt it. The Rays just don’t make moves like this. I would be shocked if the Rays actually stay in these talks. They always talk, but they never pull the trigger. It has worked pretty well for them so far. Expect the Rays to acquire a no name reliever on his decline in August…. like they always do.

  43. Looks like panic is starting to set in for the Philly Phantics.

    • Muggi 5 years ago

      ? How so? Trading a player you’re going to lose to FA to make your team better long-term is panic?

    • bw831 5 years ago

      phillies fans have been panicking since the middle of may.

  44. you guys are friggen insane if you think Jennings, Hellickson and Shields are being moved. Shields contract is perfect for Tampa and Jennings and Hellickson are replacements for their graduating players.

    im a Phillie fan btw.

    • Shields can stay in TB… He gives up way to many long-balls. We already have one of those in Hamels. (BTW, I like Hamels). But adding a long-ball pitcher to CBP makes NO SENSE!!! I like Marcum from the Jays (if he’s available) if not, Oswalt will have to be the go-to guy. The Phils will just have to open their wallet a little more.

  45. SixtoLezcano 5 years ago

    There are some insane people in these comments. Why would the Rays trade Desmond Jennings for Jayson Werth? Are you serious?

  46. These left handedness comments are being over blown. The order will get shifted obviously and Victorino will shift to the 5 hole. Victorinos power numbers are just as good as Werths this year. This protection thing to Howard is nonsense. Hes hitting .350 in the period where Werth is hitting .220.

  47. Phillies: Oswalt Myers Keppinger and Prospect from Rays
    Rays: Jayson Werth Prospect from Astros
    Astros:J.A. Happ, Austin Hyatt, Matt Rizzotti, Phillippe Aumont and Jarred Cosart.
    and there Choice of Wade Davis or Reid Brigniec or Kyle Kendrick Depending on who the Rays can Pry away from the Rays

    • This would be the Trade the Astros would be looking for With 16 Million coming of the Books for Philly when Werth is moved and Moyer falls off the Books plus Myers is a FA at the end of the Year.

      Alls the Astros would have to do then is Move Matt Lindstrom and see if the Angels would be intrested in a Lance Berkman and 6 million cash could get Mike Napoli and a 2nd tier Pitching Prospect.

      • This would be the raping to the minor league system the Phillies are trying to avoid by dealing Werth in the first place. If the Phillies wanted to deal Cosart he could be dealt to the Astros for Oswalt without involving another team.

      • Muggi 5 years ago

        We’ll see, but I can’t see the Phils trading Cosart. Maybe Trevor May.

        The ‘stro’s are not going to get:

        a guy who’s succeeded in the MLB (Happ)
        three of the Phil’s top six pitching prospects (Cosart, Aumont and Hyatt)
        an incredibly hot 1B prospect (Rizzotti)
        PLUS TWO MORE guys with MLB success/experience (Davis, Brig or Kendrick)


        one valuable but expensive ace
        one soon-to-be FA pitcher, and NOT type A or B
        a light-hitting, so-so fielding 30YO infielder (that the Phils will have no place for in a month)
        two prospects, from what is generally considered one of the worst farms in the game.

    • Yoni Pollak 5 years ago

      i don’t see houston doing that trade

    • juice587 5 years ago

      No shot. Ed Wade isn’t running the Phils still. First off Kendrick has ZERO value at this point….he has been totally exposed as a 5 starter at best. Second-the Phils would not give up Cosart, Aumont and Happ- three top young players for an injury prone aging pitcher, a whack job who they already let walk and a utility guy having a career year.

      • Are you serious? Myers has been on Phillies radar for a month know becouse of the Cliff Lee thing.

    • damnitsderek 5 years ago

      Myers back to Philly? Are you insane? The odds of that happening are about the same as Milton Bradley going back to the Cubs.

  48. dbacknation 5 years ago

    Phillies- gimme an early Xmas gift. JA Happ and Dominic Brown. In return, you get haren.
    Thanks Santa.

    • you sending Justin Upton with him?

      • Muggi 5 years ago

        Hehe I can’t wait to see what Brown can do for the Phils, but Happ-Brown for Haren-Upton? Best of luck to ya Dom… 😛

        • jwsox 5 years ago

          hahahah why would they move upton, i would have to say justin upton and mark renolds are un touchable….what about BJ upton to the astros, haren to the phillies and werth to the rays? plus a few prospects here and there from the phills and rays..I bet BJ would love to play with his brother, haren goes to the phillies thus boosting them to possibly 3 games back and the rays get the DH they have been looking for

          • It was more sarcasm then anything. You guys are not fetching the #1 prospect in baseball and the runner up for rooke of the year for Dan Haren.

          • The Blue Jays attempted and the Phillies refused and that deal was for Roy Halladay. This was all before the power emergence of Domonic Brown and his monster 2010.

          • Muggi 5 years ago

            Yeah my “:P” didn’t do it’s job expressing my tongue-in-cheekiness hehe

  49. $3081341 5 years ago

    Who’er the Rays plannin’ on given’ up. They know they can’t re-sign him right. Their probably just in it for the draft pick. Why would they sacrifice a younger hitter with more upside for basically a 2-month rental. What can Werth give you in 2-months that Brignac can’t?

    • juice587 5 years ago

      I hope you are kidding.

      • $3081341 5 years ago

        I wish I was. Why give up your promising young stars for a 2-month rental. I know their just prospects, & not all prospects pan out, but for the most part, they’ve been pretty fortunate. Makes no sense. They know they can’t re-sign him so why bother. Give up your best prospects for a guy whose had few ABs in A.L. ballparks. Didn’t they already try that with another former Phillie. Oh yeah, how’d that work out.

    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      Answer: A lot.

  50. I could see the Rays trading Shields and allowing Hellickson to come into the league on his own, but not in a playoff race. It would have to be Wade or Hellickson and I’m leaning towards Wade since his arb clock is ticking away as we speak.

  51. I fail to understabnd Amaros thinking here.Yes Oswalt is a top taleted pitcher but at the age of 32 the Phillies do not need a another poteintial injury prone pitcher who is in almost his mid 30s and they would have to give up Jayson werth so that wayu they can fit there budget.Until Utley comesback the only true power hitter in that linweup is howard if this deal gets done.Although I bet Amaro is trying to do this to hush hush what happened with the Lee deal.

    • They still have dominic brown in reserve I hope they don’t do something stupid and send him to houston

      • if they were do deal brown lee would be wearing the phillies jeresey already. you dont deal away the number prospect in baseball unless its for a controllable young stud pitcher like david price.

  52. budman3 5 years ago

    Rays have never traded for a rent a player before. Yes, the owner says he wants to go for it this year but not at the cost of a top prospect(s) and so much questions about next year. They need a RH hitting power bat but more so a guy who can drive in runs with RISP. Werth is batting .160 w/RISP(w a .648 OPS) this season and they also do not need a RF’er(Can’t see him being a DH either)…or another guy who strikes out once every 4 four at bats. They already have plenty of them.

    • Abraham Zapruder 5 years ago

      I would take Aybar and Davis for Werth

    • nm344 5 years ago

      For most guys their career RISP average is very close to their overall production. For Werth its .828 and .834 OPS respectively. 81 at-bats this season is a pretty small sample size, and you’d tend to want to be on the ‘good end’ of things when that production starts balancing out

      • budman3 5 years ago

        Perhaps but then Werth is only a .264 career hitter w/RISP and switching to a new league(and a very good pitching AL East) for 2 months is not the easiest thing to do if you are looking to pick up the pace. For a pitcher, yes…but much harder for a hitter

  53. Yoni Pollak 5 years ago

    if its houston…

    I think they want at least Happ/ and or Aumont, with Davis or Hellickson, plus another Infield Prospect

  54. dc21892 5 years ago

    The Rays aren’t going to get a player like Werth when Crawfords intentions are walking, and so would a guy like Werth. You give up really good prospects for half a season? Not worth the picks you get when your players walk.

    • why wouldnt they? that means they would have 5 picks in the top 45? with their track record of drafting and developing players its a good bet for them.

    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      I think it makes a lot of sense actually. Trade some prospects not named Jennings, Hellickson, or Davis for Werth and make a run at the postseason. Then after the season is over offer arb to both Werth and Crawford and get 4 picks in a deep 2011 draft (also Pena profiles as a Type B right now, but I don’t think he’s a lock to get an arb offer). Call up Jennings and sign a 1B on the cheap like Konerko/LaRoche/Cantu/Wigginton/Pena. The top picks can be used to replenish the farm after having called up all those youngsters.

  55. red sox

  56. Where is all of this talk that James Shields is some sort of valuable property? His hit rate is over 10, his ERA+ is an incredible 88, his WARP is .1.

    While Werth has been struggling mightily, his metrics still absolutely destroy Shields’s. Werth’s OPS+ is 131, the highest in his career, his WARP is 3.4. And before any Phillies phans attack me “for not watching the game!” I live in Philly and have seen every game this year.

    This talk about Oswalt has me incredibly worried. What we see with Oswalt is a player whose K rate is 8.5, the highest it has been since 2002. In fact, his K rate barely breaks 7; additionally, his hit rate is at a career low….one that isn’t even close.

    What does that say to me? That is a statistical anomaly. Players don’t have career years at age 32. I would MUCH rather trade Werth for Davis and Alexander Torres.

    • Then by seeing every game this year, you should know that he stares at pitches straight down the middle, and swings at pitches *way* out of the zone. They’re his two K’s every single night.

      You don’t need to know his OBGYN or YMCA to know that. Just two working eyeballs.

      • “Players don’t have career years at 32?”

        Cliff Lee is having his best statistical season at age 31 with a VIDEO GAME K:BB ratio. Roy Halladay is 33 and has an MLB top-5 ERA, and an amazingly-low K:BB ratio.

        The only reason why I wouldn’t trade Werth is because he is the Phillies only right-handed power bat. Trading him and bringing up Brown would leave only Ruiz, Polanco, and currently, Valdez as our only pure right-handed batters. All slap-hitting contact guys. Yikes.

    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      Shields has also been a 4+ WAR pitcher in the AL East for the last 3 seasons. His BABIP is .334 and his HR/FB% is at 14.7, while also having an xFIP of 3.64. Don’t forget about the very team friendly contract that he is under, with club options for ’12-’14.

  57. Jason Klinger 5 years ago

    Look, it’s not as if this “balanced” lineup is tearing up MLB, so there isn’t that much to lose by trading Werth and bringing up Brown. And if Charlie is that worried about protection for Howard, he could always run out this lineup until Utley returns:

    Rollins L/RPolanco RVictorino L/RHoward LFrancisco R (Ibanez hits the bench)Brown LRuiz RValdez R

    We really don’t know if Francisco can play every day, so why not use the next month to find out?

    • Yankees420 5 years ago

      Because there is only 10 more days until the trade deadline, and that isn’t a big enough sample size judge whether or not he can play everyday.

    • bushdiver 5 years ago

      The Phillies already made a huge mistake by trading away Cliff Lee. Werth in my opinion is a great fielder, great clutch hitter and would be another huge mistake if they trade him. I’d rather give up Howard, he’s overpaid and batting wise is not all that good.

  58. CAPP13UCCIO 5 years ago

    My friend is a reporter in Tampa Bay. He texted me as well as all of my other friends telling me that a 3 way deal has gone down with Werth going to Tampa Bay and Oswalt going to Philadelphia. He said he has not heard what the Rays have sent, but he did mention that it was nothing substantial.

  59. juice587 5 years ago

    Just heard Jayson Stark on philly radio- He said the Oswalt deal is in his opinion down to a 30 % likelihood due to Oswalt wanting the 2012 option of $16 million picked up before he approves a deal.

    If the Phillies are still going to trade Werth I say try and pry Kyle Blanks from San Diego. They desperately need a right hand bat in that lineup and Blanks would fit nicely in left field next year for the Phils. You could even platoon him with Ibanez.

  60. Werth on the Padres would be sweet!!!

  61. Personally, I would like to see them get Oswalt.

  62. The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

    Can someone please tell me why the Phillies want to trade Werth, I just don’t get it

  63. bushdiver 5 years ago

    I’ll bet that the Phillies are really regretting trading Lee away.

  64. dizzle4 5 years ago

    I looked at that too, but that could have also just been an innings or pitch limit for him. Anyone know how many innings he’d been getting lately in his minors outings?

  65. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    If Happ is involved in any deal then Ruben Amaro would be neck deep with a shovel in his own grave. You dont trade a young outstanding left hander who costs you next to nothing for ANYTHING when you are looking to add starting pitching. thats counter productive. He was pulled because he is going to be added to the big club this week

  66. zolttt 5 years ago

    trading happ isnt as bad as you think, he kinda had a lucky year last year… and cant even hit 90 right now on the gun… he’s always been projected as a mid-end of rotation starter, and is pretty much cementing himself there as we speak.

    saying trading happ is the end of the world, is just silly… he’s a left handed andrew carpenter. If you can trade happ and werth and get roy oswalt until maybe the end of 2012, when its obvious now they arent signing werth… i’d do that in an instant.

  67. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    Im sorry my man, but you clearly dont know much baseball. Happ is going to be an All Star for years to come, and btw, he hit 95 mph on the gun his last start.

  68. juice587 5 years ago

    Happ was consistently hitting the low 90s in his last two starts….

    link to

  69. zolttt 5 years ago

    haha ok, he’s going to be an all star forever, and he didnt throw 95 today… and has never thrown harder than low 90s, and his last start he didnt hit 90. But i dont know anything…. go get yourself a Happ jersey my friend.

    also if you said i could have a 3 time all star, who has 5 top 5 finishes in the cy young voting with a 143-81 record for someone thats leaving in a few months, and a 4th/5th starter that frank costanza thinks will be a 15 time all star… id do it 100 times out of 100

  70. I dont know if you can call him an All Star for years to come. He is going to be 28 in a few months and at this age is where players start to hit (if they haven’t already) their prime. If last years number for Happ shows his best numbers of his career or what he is mostly capable of doing then he most likely wont even make an All Star team, with a ceiling of maybe one or two.

  71. Throwing 95+ doesn’t mean you are any good. There are plenty of guys who throw hard that are buried in the minors. And if he was so good why is not in the majors then?

  72. atlantaspike 5 years ago

    The Braves haven’t been losing many series (15 -1-3 lately, and won again tonight), and have an extremely favorable home schedule going forward.

  73. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    Ruben Amaro himself said today that Happ hit 95 mph on the gun during his last appearance (not saying he will consistently). You said he is the left handed Andrew Carpenter, who is a career AAA starter. Happ finished second in ROTY voting last year.

    Let me ask you… Is Tommy Hanson just another Andrew Carpenter?

  74. im not saying anything bad about the braves or that theyre going to fall im just saying that they would start to get a little closer every week until theyre neck and neck because everyone knows the phillies are a second half team especially in september and what does the 3 mean at the end of that splits

  75. atlantaspike 5 years ago

    15 won series, 3 split series and 1 loss

  76. You can’t compare the two. Hanson has a tremendous amount of more upside than Happ does. Hanson isn’t even 24 yet and he had a very good first year. He is having a bit of a down year this year but with his capability this could possible be his worse year of his career and if it is the worse year of his career he will have a damn good career.

  77. Does anyone remember the name Greg Maddux? He probably never hit 90 on a gun and is no doubt the best pitcher in the steriod era.

  78. zolttt 5 years ago

    regardless of what speed he hits, he’s not tommy hanson, or greg maddux, and will not be a perennial all star. Sure he was 2nd in rookie of the year, but angel berroa won a ROY, where is he now? I have no issues with happ, and no issues with him being a number 4 or 5 starter… but to say to trade him for oswalt is a bad idea is just nonsense.

    again he had a lucky season, a low babip (batting avg for balls in play) and got out of many jams. In a perfect world id like to have happ and oswalt in the rotation, but lets not start calling happ the second coming of a young pedro.

  79. BentoBox 5 years ago

    Maddux had control.

  80. Yankees420 5 years ago

    Yes, point out the exception that proves the rule. That’ll show ’em.

  81. Yankees420 5 years ago

    Couldn’t have said it better.

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