Jason Bay Rumors: Wednesday

I'm really hoping we can hold on to him and try to go after a Free agent pitcher in the off season. He wants to stay in town and he's the face of the organization, plus he's hitting like the All Star he's been his whole career. Lets not break up the 3rd best offense in the NL anymore than we have to.

I think the Rays would be better off putting Upton in RF, considering his plus arm with Crawford in CF and Bay in LF. I'm sure the Rays don't want to mess with Upton, since he's still learning how to play CF, but another option for them to consider, should they acquire Bay.

I still think Bay to the Red Sox and Manny to a 3rd team makes a lot of sense. Bay would replace Manny's offense (they are very similar at this stage in their careers, Manny on his decline and Bay in his prime). The Red Sox would pick up most of Manny's salary and the team acquiring Manny would have to give up the best prospects to the Pirates, with the Red Sox kicking in at least a solid prospect or 2. The deal could also be expanded to include some relievers (with Grabow going to one of the teams involved. Here are a few options.

#1
Bay (and maybe Juan Cruz or Rauch) to Red Sox
Manny (and Grabow?) to D-Backs
Prospects from both clubs to Pirates

#2
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Dodgers
Ethier/Kemp and prospects to Pirates

#3
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Mets
Prospects to Pirates

#4
Bay to Red Sox
Manny to Marlins
Hermida and prospects to Pirates (people seem to forget Hermida is only 8 months older than Kemp!)

I could see the Pirates wanting to do the deal for Kemp without too much in the way of prospects coming their way (if any). The Dodgers might even have to receive a prospect (or Grabow) in that scenario. Don't know how interested the Pirates would be in Ethier, they really need to shoot for someone with more upside (Ethier is 26, Hermida is 24, and Kemp is almost 24).

Hermida might be intriguing, but he's struggled more in the majors than Kemp, so better prospects would have to be involved with him going to the Pirates than Kemp.

DOWN WITH TYPEKEY!!!

Yeah, I hope the Pirates keep Bay unless they're really blown away. And I'm serious on this one, no caving like they did with Nady/Marte. Unlike those two, Bay is actually a legitimate star player.

If the Rays are talking, they can keep Price but Davis or Hellickson have to be one part of the deal. Brignac is another. And then maybe a couple lesser players like Morlan or even Edwin Jackson.

I agree with Charlie, though. With Bay and McLouth, they have 2/3 of a very very productive OF. Doumit hits well, LaRoche is good the 2nd half of the year and Sanchez hopefully can come back from an injury-plagued season. They should be able to score runs.

If they can just cobble together a pitching staff, not a staff full of aces, just an acceptable average staff, they could compete

Poppa: Next year (2009) is the last year on his contract so he can be a FA after the season.

And convoluted 3-Way deals aside, I agree Boston would be a great fit for Bay. A fairly young, white, hard-working, humble power hitting OF would have the Massholes giddy with excitement.

I don't know about multi-team deals but if Red Sox could pawn Manny off on somebody for prospects (Say Niese and other from Mets), they could offer the Pirates a nice package of Masterson, Lowrie, and some lesser guys for Bay.

DOWN WITH TYPEKEY!!!

DOWN WITH PoppaRomeo's SPAMMING!!!

Bay is signed through 2009. I think he's $7.5 million next year, which is exceedingly cheap for his production. Feel free to look it up yourself at mlbcontracts.blogspot.com!

If you're any of those 3rd party teams involved, why not just get Bay instead of Manny? Why would they give up prospects to get Manny & help Boston get Bay when Bay is as good as Manny & signed cheaply next year? Especially in the Dodgers case.

Would Davis, Brignac and Morlan be enough for Bay and Grabow? You can substitue Davis with Hellickson if you want him instead. I would rather have Davis, though. The Rays have a huge logjam of pitchers and need to move one. They have Kazmir, Sheilds, Price, Garza, and either Jackson, Davis, or Hellickson. They can afford to move Davis.

The reasons for considering a trade of Bay seem pretty obvious. He's only signed for one more season and if the Pirates were to resign him, that'd likely be about 1/3 of their team salary tied up in one player. I seem to remember the Marlins trading a younger, better player that they controlled for longer, and I think its pretty obvious that has worked out for them. Honestly, if I were a Pirates fan, I'd be far more worried about a long-term extension for McLouth.

As for some of the proposed offers, I can't imagine the Rays giving up Hellickson/Davis and Brignac for a little over a year of Bay. In fact, if you read the article, the Pirates have yet to be offered one elite prospect, let alone two (I know Brignac is struggling but the Rays won't sell low). If I were the Pirates, I'd insist on Hellickson plus some other solid pieces.

"A fairly young, white, hard-working, humble power hitting OF would have the Massholes giddy with excitement"

(smiling)

Just put Bay in right field. If you can play left field, you can play right field.

one proposed trade at draysbay was

TB trades Niemann, Brignac, and a B- level prospect to PIT for Bay and Grabow

PIT then trades Wilson to LAD for LaRoche

A fairly young, white, hard-working, humble power hitting OF would have the Massholes giddy with excitement"

Yeah, because us in Boston have a hard time cheering for Ortiz, Ellsbury Lowell, Matsuzaka, Delcarmen, Okajima, etc.

This isn't the 1950's buddy. Doesn't matter if the guy is white, black, blue, purple. If he can play, we'll root for him. If he can't, see ya later.

And no, just because you play LF doesn't mean you can play RF. Manny plays LF, lets just send him to a team who can stick him in RF. Yeah, that would work...

Im pretty sure the Braves are gana try to get Back in this. Jason Bay is exactly what they need for next season.

Wow you most certainly cannot make the assumption that if you can play left field then you can also play right.

I don't understand why a team would give up the prospects for get jason bay just to get Manny and then see the Red Sox get Bay

I have to think Brignac + Niemann + lower prospect might be close enough. That is putting a lot of faith in Brignac (he's struggled the last couple years, but is still quite young). If the Pirates are only accepting 3 prospects for both Bay and Grabow, I think the 3rd prospect has to have pretty nice upside. Maybe Nick Barnese. Even then, the Pirates may hold out.

The Pirates really need to float a few Bay-to-Red Sox rumors through the press. Even if untrue, this might help force Tampa Bay's hand.

Honestly, if any team put Bay in RF, you could pretty much guarentee runners going from first to third on his noodle arm all day.

And seriously, can we ban the guy who struggles to make a comment in EVERY post just to promote that crummy website? The spoof wasn't worth the four minutes it took to watch it, let alone clogging up three weeks worth of posts to promote the garbage.

Just Google: "On a side note I found this hilarious spoof"
123 Results!! This guy is spamming blogs all over the web.

"Wow you most certainly cannot make the assumption that if you can play left field then you can also play right."

I agree 100%. I played ball into my college years and was an outfielder. I was comfortable in CF and RF, but I hated LF. Felt like I could never get used to RH batters having extra power when they pulled the ball to LF like I could with RH batters hitting the ball to RF.

"I don't understand why a team would give up the prospects for get jason bay just to get Manny and then see the Red Sox get Bay"

(1) Manny is cheaper (in prospects) than Bay. So a team without a great farm system might have a better job getting Manny than Bay.
(2) A team like the D-Backs already has 3 starting OF for 2009 (Byrnes, Young, Upton). Bay gives them a logjam that forces a trade. Manny does not.
(3) Manny is more famous than Bay, even though they give similar results at this point. That might mean something to some GM's and some fanbases.

Bay would be nice for TB. Bay and Grabow for something like Niemann and Fernando Perez and a B-level prospect. I hope it's Jason Hammel.

Remember, the Rays will have to make room on the roster for these guys and almost everyone is out of options in the bullpen.

Also, it's really nice as a Rays fan to see trade rumors about my team that DO NOT include Carl Crawford being traded.

It still boggles the mind that the Mets won't give up some top prospects for Bay but will for Manny. I know Omar has been a longtime admirer of Manny's, but c'mon at this point in their carreers the both have similar numbers with Bay having more upside because of his age. In regards to the Bay to Rays trade, it would take at least Niemann/Hellickson/Brignac for him alone I would think. If the pirates throw in Grabow the Rays would have to pony up one more decent(mid level/B) prospect. Everyone is bashing the trade of Nady/Marte saying the Bucs did not get enough in return, but I beg to differ. Tabata is a good prospect with ridiculous upside. Karstens, Ohlendorf, and McCutcheon are decent prospects with Ohlendorf and Karstens providing immediate help to the rotation and/or bullpen. Cutch may be called up in Sept. but I feel he will probably be ready for the ML team sometime next year. So to recap, we gave up Nady/Marte for 2, possibly 3 starting pitcher that immediately bolster the rotation. Not a bad haul.

The Pirates are waiting on the Rays to include Davis in a deal... i know thats what is holding it up.

They want that one elite prospect and i think the Rays will panic especially if they lose again today.

Would a deal like Davis/Brignac or Niemann/Jaso do the trick?

Does anyone have any insights on either of these guys..Wade Townsend and Rhyne Hughes. Don't know much about Rays minor league players and saw these 2 mentioned on another site.

"Would a deal like Davis/Brignac or Niemann/Jaso do the trick?"

There's a big difference between Davis/Brignac and Niemann/Jaso..

I think Davis/Brignac could get it done. I'm not as sold on Niemann.

They suck... they would be a 4th or 5th prospect throw in... depending if Grabow is in the deal too

Doubtful that the Rays give up two top prospects. Brignac, Niemann and one or two low minors guys would get the job done. Brignac gives the Bucs a top young SS to pair with Alvarez on the left side of the field and Niemann has No. 2 SP potential and should be any worse than a 3. Throw in a Nick Barnese and a reliever and its gotta be a go. The Pirates shouldn't get too greedy or they'll wind up with nothing.

scribbletone... sorry the deal was meant to be seen like this...

Davis/Jaso/Brignac or Niemann

How about Davis/Brignac/throw in for Bay and Grabow?

Wade Townsend is a former first round pick (two years in a row) that blew out his elbow. This is his second year back from Tommy John surgery. Most of last year he didn't show much as far as his stuff goes and ended up going under the knife again in August to clean out the same elbow. We really do not need another damaged arm in this system. He was a starter in Columbus with Hellickson and Heath Rollins...Hellickson would be awesome to get in a trade. Rollins could be a lower (4 or 5) rotation guy someday

The worst the Pirates will end up with is having Bay signed up for another year at $7.5 million. Either they get what they want or they wait until the winter meetings and do it all over again.

Absolutely no reason for Huntington to make a panic move now.

I've been calling for a Bay/Grabow deal to St. Louis for a month! I'm glad to hear the Cardinals are still in the mix. I think the Cards have a lot to offer the Pirates.

If the Pirates could net Hellickson AND Brignac, it'd be a steal. Nobody's beating that offer.

The Cards would have to give up Rasmus + either Jaime Garcia or Adam Ottavino for sure if Huntington was to deal Bay within the division. Plus whatever thwrow-ins they come up with. I just don't see that happening though.

Bay and Grabow to Cards for Duncan, J. Garcia, J. Todd, and J. Jay.
Could it go?

I think the following is a fair deal for Bay: Hellickson or Brignac + Niemann + 2 other prospects (Barnese, Jaso, Morlan, Royster, etc.).

The Pirates would be buying low on Brignac (failing to progress at higher levels) and Niemann (hasn't dominated AAA, is old for a prospect, has been on the DL every year since being drafted). This is good if they work out, but it also means they take on more risk than a guy like Hellickson or Davis.

My personal favorite: Brignac + Niemann + Jaso + Barnese for Bay + Grabow.

"Bay and Grabow to Cards for Duncan, J. Garcia, J. Todd, and J. Jay.
Could it go?"

I would weep tears of joy if we could get Bay and not give up Rasmus. And I do think it's possible. I just wish the Rays would go away. Your team is already awesome - leave Bay and Grabow for us!!

I wondered about Duncan to the Pirates, thinking he could play first for them. The timing is perfect for this since LaRoche just went on the DL. I'm not sure what LaRoche's contract situation is, but maybe Duncan could be a future replacement?

I would even toss Ludwick in there if the Pirates want him.

I can't see why the Pirates would deal Bay (& Grabow) within the division for anything less than an elite prospect like Rasmus--especially if TB is dangling some pretty solid names.

As a Rays fan, it wouldn't bother me to see two prospects like Brignac and Neimann traded for a solid player like Bay.

Bartlett has been solid at short for us and could be here for another 1 or two years. We drafted Beckham for a reason. Even though he's struggled in Rookie class, he should be fine.

Also Niemann is good, but we have other alternate pitching prospects, not to mention David Price. Our current rotation is good and young and has no room for Niemann once Price is called up.

I think Niemann and Brignac is enough for a year and a half of Bay. Niemann is ready to start at the ML level, and would probably fare better being in the NL. Brignac is a great prospect, I'm not so sure how he would fit in at Pit with Jack Wilson still manning short with his huge contract. Maybe Fernando Perez or Willy Aybar instead?
I doubt Morlan will go, we just acquired him in the offseason trade with Minnesota and we're short on relief prospects. Perhaps Hammel or EJax or Sonny is a part of the deal?

Heyman was just on WFAN and he said Bay to the Rays was serious.

Tim has been ignoring him, but Jake at Bucco Blog has a source saying there is a 3rd team (other than Rays and Cardinals) involved. Not giving any specifics, but he speculates that all the Rays rumors might be to get the 3rd team to move.

Give the number of sources confirming the Rays rumors, I would be shocked if the mystery 3rd team was really the favorite. More likely the mystery 3rd team is being used to drive up the price with the Rays.

Anyway, in case Tim doesn't post to Bucco Blog, here it is.

http://pittsburghpirates.buccoblog.com/something-seems-close/

If Frank Wren lets Jason Bay walk he is an idiot. regardless of if we have Kotchman or not we still need another bat in that outfield.

If there was a draft for liars and BS artists, and everyone in the world was eligible, Jake from Bucco Blog would be a mid first round pick with Boras as an adviser.

So many things to comment on...mostly crazy comparisons and questionable proposals.

pen76- Jamie Garcia or Adam Ottavino? That's like saying Joba Chamberlain or Alan Horne (and no, I'm not comparing Garcia to Chamberlain, Yanks fans) Garcia is a very good lefty SP prospect who looks like a solid bet No. 3 at the MLB level, with a chance to become a 2. Ottavino is a former first rounder who has done almost nothing in his pro career and is dangerously close to earning the 'bust' label.

Redbirdfan- Doubtful. Probably gotta have Rasmus in the deal, esp. with TB in on him as well. I like the group of guys you listed, but without Rasmus, it's mostly depth; lacking that impact player the Bucs are looking for. Still...you never know. If the Rays dropped out, depth could go a long way for a system like Pittsburgh's

mymrbig's offer sounds about right. Bet its the winner (Brignac and Niemann + 2 low level guys). Funny that we both keyed in on Barnese.

DRayDude- Huh?! Are you seriously trying to say that Brignac and Perez or Aybar are comparable?! One is an elite prospect (regardless of mymrbig's comments about not developing- he was leading Triple A in doubles before his call up!) at arguably THE premium position in the game- a rare shortstop with 30 HR power- the others are garbage; a 4th outfielder having a poor season and a utility infielder. Not quite the same.

Finally, Sal- let's say this whole Bay thing falls through... What would you think of this: Sherrill and Huff (we eat some of Huff's salary) for Brignac, Niemann, Barnese and Talbot (or Hammel or EJax or Sonny- though he's kinda good)? Hell, Brignac, Neimann, and Sonnanstine, alone. Fair?

If there is indeed a 3rd mystery team, I would think the most likely suitors would be either the A's or the Diamondbacks. I would lean toward the D'backs just cause they missed out on Tex.

hotdog.zanzabar - hahaha! Good thing Dave Littlefield isn't a GM anymore, otherwise he'd overdraft Jake as a top 5 pick in that draft.

Maybe the "mystery team" is not interested in Bay, but rather trying to work out a 3 way deal involving him. I'm thinkin the dodgers, who are interested in Jack Wilson...

I don't like Bay to the Cards at all. We are getting great production from our outfielders adding an outfield bat doesn't solve our problems (light hitting SS and 2B). Plus Bay doesn't address our biggest offensive hole...hitting LHP. Here are Bays stats vs Lefties:

86 AB, 2 HR, 8 RBI, .193 AVE, .337 OBP, .686 OPS.

How is that helping?

Just trade us Grabow.

Also Cards fans please read carefully: NO ONE WANTS DUNCAN!

"Finally, Sal- let's say this whole Bay thing falls through... What would you think of this: Sherrill and Huff (we eat some of Huff's salary) for Brignac, Niemann, Barnese and Talbot (or Hammel or EJax or Sonny- though he's kinda good)? Hell, Brignac, Neimann, and Sonnanstine, alone. Fair?"

I'd rather have Bay and Garbow than Huff and Sherril.

Huff is having a good year and Sherril is better than Garbow. I think Huff is having a fluke season. Bay has been very consistent every season.

Besides, I don't want Huff back in Tampa. He brings back too many bad memories.

JoelCards- gotta do better than that.

Sal- It wasn't an either/or question; that's why I started with 'if the Bay thing falls through.' Nevertheless, in reading between the lines, it seems you would not be interested...even if you didn't get Bay. Interesting.

Also, while Bay has been pretty consistent at a high level (with the exception of last year), Huff has consistently been very good over the second half of pretty much every season he's been in the majors. Just saying...

As for Bay's performance against LHP, if you actually look at his whole career instead of a ridiculously small 86 AB sample size he has a line of .277/.389/.516 which is better than his career numbers.

Is it possible the 3rd mystery team is Boston? According to ESPN they are in heated discussions with the Marlins to trade Manny. Could they flip that around and pick up Bay to replace him in both LF and as Papi's protector?

forget the Yankees deal ... Nady and Marte weren't even considerations for the future of the Bucs...NO way either were ever signed and every ML team knew that. That decreases value ... Add to that that Nady isn't even in the same league as Bay (forget this year's numbers...lets look at career numbers) . One more factor Joelcards ... any time a team in your division calls about a player you show them a price about 20% higher than you would a team outside your division.

That package isn't gonna cut it. At least I hope not ...

Well a few weeks ago, Duncan was on an organization wish list. But besides him, Rasmus, and Garcia, I dont see anything that would interest the pirates to be very honest.

I could see Grabow going to St. Louis for Duncan and maybe a throw in type guy.

And I can see Bay to TB for Neimann, Brignac, and hopefully their catcher prospect Jaso(not sure if im right on that name)

To me that is a deal that would be overwhelming. But I would gladly take Wade and Brignac straight up for Bay

"any time a team in your division calls about a player you show them a price about 20% higher than you would a team outside your division."

Where was that thinking when you GAVE Ramirez to the Cubs?

Still on this Duncan thing, hun? Are we seriously talking about this? The guy is on the DL with a back problem. Can you even trade a player who is on the DL? Not to mention its CHRIS DUNCAN? He has about as much value as Reyes and look what he netted us.

I think the Cards are more likely to get Ohman than Grabow.

The Ramirez trade was a farce ... and should have gotten Dave Littlefield fired immediately. Please don't site what DL did as evidence of what types of moves GM's make - he was not a General Manager. He was a shrewd accountant hired to shed payroll regardless of talent.