10:16pm: Jason Beck of MLB.com reports that Jim Leyland categorically denied the Porcello trade rumor this afternoon. "There's not a chance that Rick Porcello is going to be traded," Leyland said. "That's a lie. That's not even speculation."
1:33pm: The Tigers haven’t ruled out trading Rick Porcello, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. They pushed the 21-year-old's next Triple A start back a day, though it’s not because of an injury. GM Dave Dombrowski said he doesn’t plan to move Porcello, but acknowledged that anything could happen.
“I don’t ever use the word ‘untouchable’ on any players,” Dombrowski said. “But he’s not a guy we’re looking to trade.”
The Tigers have tens of millions coming off the books after the season, since Jeremy Bonderman, Nate Robertson and Dontrelle Willis all have contracts that expire. That could make it easier for the Tigers to add a top starter this year.
Cliff Lee won’t likely be on the market for long and Roy Oswalt would not accept a deal to Detroit, but the Tigers could pursue Dan Haren. The Tigers have sent Edwin Jackson and Willis to Arizona in recent trades, though that was when Josh Byrnes was running the D’Backs.
Porcello followed up his breakout 2009 season with a disappointing 13-start stint in the Tigers' rotation. He posted a 6.14 ERA in the majors and has since posted a 4.29 mark in three minor league starts.
Porcello for Lilly Straight up? or Lilly+Stevens?
was that serious?
Porcello is struggleing with an ERA over 6 very Zambrano-esk. The tiger can get Lilly a proven starter who has been much more consistant and a young releiver to add to their pen with the question marks that opened up with the zumaya injury. what would a team fighting for a playoff spot want on their team right now?
Year W L G IP BB SO SV ERA
2010 Season 4 7 13 70.1 22 33 0 6.14
or
Year W L G IP BB SO SV ERA
2010 Season 3 7 14 93.1 22 64 0 3.76
having watched lilly pitch and get zero run support. Lilly could very easily have 8+ wins right now.
or hell you guys needed a SS too right i know you guys had interest in theriot too add him to the package.
you serious Clark?
And what if Rick is just going through a sophomore slump and could be amazing next year? I don’t think there is any pitcher out there worth that risk. And I don’t know how you can say Porcello is in a Zabrano like slump when A) Zambrano has been in the league for several years and B) he has been bad for two or three seasons. Whether Rick’s woes will go past this season remains to be seen.
buzzzzzzzzzz
//Porcello for Lilly Straight up?//
No. A millions times no.
Dude don’t even mind that guy. He’s got no idea what he’s talking about
Just seeing “Lilly” and “Porcello” in the same sentence made my soul shrivel up and die. :/
Or he might be called up again and pitch tomorrow.
Wouldn’t that be selling low on a guy that has a lot of upside? I say no way that happens.
No way Porcello repeats his 2009 numbers, but if he at least get back on track and Scherzer proves his recent success isn’t a fluke those two guys won’t look bad under Verlander. I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Bondo back on a one year deal.
The only way I would trade Ricky is for a 2b or SS. The market for middle infielders is looking pretty bleak the next few years. Resign Inge for one year and see what we can get for Porcello
I agree with everything except for the writing off of his returning to 2009 numbers. I think it can happen if he goes back to being at least a bit more of a power pitcher. Turning him into a groundball guy was smarter when we had a decent defense, but the way we’re stumpfisting around the infield these days, he’d get no help at all.
I would hate to see him traded because he has a ton of upside. The Tigers really rushed him last year and now the league is catching up to this sinker. His sinker is still a great pitch, but he didn’t have enough time in the minors to develop an out breaking pitch. Hopefully he can do that without all the pressure in AAA and come back better than ever. If he is traded for Ted Lilly, the Cubs would have just performed a miracle. I wouldn’t mind him being traded if Dan Haren is coming back though.
Not gunna happen, especially not for Ted Lilly. I really think the Tigers have the pieces to pull off a deal for Haren without including Porcello or Turner
Would Casey Crosby, Ryan Strieby, and Wilkin Ramirez be enough to land Haren? I think it all depends on how much other teams like Ramirez and whether they think Crosby is enough to front a trade (rather than Porcello or Turner). Also have to consider that Arizona only has an interim GM right now and may not want to make a big deal right now.
No.
Those guys look decent only on a list of Tiger prospects. Put them on a national prospect list, and……. well, they don’t even get on such a list.
Turner, Porcello, Scherzer, Schlereth maybe…..
your insane , they better be getting the ballpark too !
Scherzer? Dudes not a prospect
I never said he was. Neither is Porcello, having used up his rookie status in 2009.
Point is that the guys that were mentioned above have little or no value in a trade, especially if the trade target is Dan Haren.
have a peice of swamp land in flordia you may be interested in
//I really think the Tigers have the pieces to pull off a deal for Haren without including Porcello or Turner//
Who would you trade then, if you don’t send Turner or Porcello to Az. for Haren? Oliver, probably. But who else? Can’t imagine Crosby has much value right now w/his injuries.
listed the pieces I think they’d use to put together a package below
Porcello seems like he would be exactly the type of headline piece I would be looking for in exchange for Haren. He is young and talented but almost more importantly he induces ground balls which is a huge bonus in that homer happy park.
If I were Arizona I would offer up Haren and Drew both to Detriot but ask for a ton in return ie Porcello, Turner (as a PTBNL), Oliver, Strieby and maybe a couple other low minor grab bag types if they don’t want to move both Turner and Oliver.
WHAT? Porcello, Turner, AND Oliver? Cmon now man haha
I realize that is a ton of prospect value and likely a bit much but getting Haren AND Drew would be a huge haul and fit perfectly with the Tiger’s needs. Haren’s numbers would look prettier and he would be even more effective moving out of the desert and into a HR killing park like Detroit while Drew would extend an already excelent middle of the order while adding defensive value at a critical defensive position.
Of course its a major prospect hit, but the value for the team this year would be drastic.
Next year and the year after too. Drew still has two seasons of arbitration left, and Haren is already under contract for 2 more seasons. Giving up prospects wouldn’t be quite as painful, except Drew is and has been injury prone-minor, nagging things, but still he has to have injury time outs. Haren has been healthy and durable. But he’s a pitcher. You know how quickly that can change.
With the Twins pitchers slumping, the White Sox having to fill a starters spot, and they have Freddy Garcia, a pitcher made of glass taking regular turns, I would try to get in there ahead of everyone if I were going to make a move. You are going to have to part with some premium prospects to get either one them.
If anything I think the young starter they’d let go of to get Haren is Oliver…. from there package pieces would include Wilkin Ramirez, Jeff Larish, Streiby, and some of the young power relievers we have (Perry, Satterwhite, Weinhardt, etc)
I’d hold onto Perry for sure, especially with Zumaya out for the year. Satterwhite is out for the year with a torn labrum so he’s off the market. Weinhardt would probably have to be included. Wouldn’t think twice about parting with Ramirez, Larish or Streiby.
It would take a massive haul to land both Haren and Drew. At least 2 of Porcello, Turner, Crosby. Along with 2-3 other good pieces. However, if you are going to trade away a ton of the farm this would be the way to do it – Haren and Drew are both under contract/team control through 2012. So you’re getting good, controlled major league players back, not rentals.
Oh, man. I just said the same thing way up above! I like how you think!
The Tigers seem like they always rush their prospects, they promote guys as soon as possible. Most of them look good for a while, then it seems like they regress because they are pretty much learning on the job and guys are adjusting to them.
I still think they screwed up Porcello. I don’t consider myself an expert on the draft and prospects, but I thought when he was coming out he was a power arm with a good curveball. They let him play in the low minors on a short pitch count and turned him into a ground ball pitch to contact guy. How can you do that to a guy that young who has ace potential? It’s almost like they took a #1 starter and just turned him into a #4 guy because they didn’t want to deal with the growing pains of him needing to harness his stuff. You can find pitch to contact guys anywhere, let him strike guys out!
Make that $ 50 million to $ 65 million coming off the payroll after this season, to be exact.
Bonderman 12.5, Willis 12.0, Robertson 10.0, Damon 8.0, Inge 6.6, Laird 3.9, Seay 2.5, Everett 1.5 = 55.5 million.
Verlander gets a $ 6 mil raise. He’s the only one.
Zumaya, Miner (both out for the season), Galarraga and Raburn are the arb eligibles= not much.
Lots and lots of money with just the fool to spend it, with a few holes to fill. 3B, SS, C, SP…
And, almost forgot, Magglio will cost $ 3 mil less even if his option vests, $ 18 mil less if it doesn’t.
Bring Bonderman back on a one year 2-3mm deal, Inge might get 4. We’ll probably have to bring Laird back as a backup maybe? Yeah he hits 200, but just being a competent catcher is a big bonus as a 2011 free agent
as long as laird never hits in the second spot ever again… then maybe.
Porcello, Weinhardt, Strieby,W Ramirez and Woods. Tigers take Haren with no salary help from AZ
Haren pitches in the NL, Thus you have to tack on a run on his ERA. Thus his true ERA is north of 5. The NL has too many weak hitters plus the pitchers hit, this deflates the true ERA. Thus I would trade Larish and Clete Thomas and Fein for Haren, nothing more.
Haren pitched well in the AL for three seasons.
Also, ERA isn’t the be all end all of pitcher stats.
Agreed on both counts.
Using a down half year to measure Haren’s “true ERA” as you call it is just stupid and ignorant. His career ERA is 3.68, his career FIP is identical and xFIP sitting at 3.61, plus you need to factor in the switch from a hitters park in Arizona, to a pitchers park in Detroit, and add the fact that other than the Twins and White Sox, there aren’t any truly tough offenses he’d have to face inside his own division, so I don’t think Haren would see a spike in ERA if traded to Detroit. In fact, since Comerica isn’t prone to giving up the long ball, and that is Haren’s biggest weakness, he might actually do better playing for the Tigers.
I take it you aren’t serious about acquiring Haren.
A half run.
But more to the point, he’s having a down year in ERA terms. That will hurt his trade value, but not decimate it like you seem to believe. He has true ace stuff, and while he’s not cheap he’s not all that expensive either. He has tremendous value.
Since coming to Arizona, he has pitched even better than normal. Even acknowledging his down year, expect the Diamondbacks to look for a return similar to what they gave up to get him.
Porcello and Prospect for Lyon and Myers
No thanks.
Players like Wilkin Ramirez, Larish and Streiby don’t have much if any value. I think for an offer to be taken seriously it would have to include Porcello, Oliver, and two more lesser prospects.
How much money does AZ contribute?
I wasn’t making an offer, only an observation.
This simply is the Verducci Effect in all its glory, sad that DET couldn’t limit his innings last year.
link to baseballprospectus.com
Also, Leyland apparently doesn’t have input on trades. So . . .
“not a chance he gets traded” that’s pretty close to what he said about Granderson, who was then traded the next day.
I think the Tigers should hold on to Porcello, the kid has talent, he just needs to go through some growing pains right now. IF they were sold on selling him, then I’d expect them to go after someone worthwhile, I’d love it for them to get Oswalt but that’s not happening because of the NTC. Perhaps B.J. Upton? Dan Haren? Corey Hart? Fielder (unlikely because of them having Miggy, unless one of them could be the permanent DH or could play the OF, but I doubt it)?
Ted Lilly is NOT worth Porcello! Ted Lilly + Derrek Lee is worth Porcello but is a bad fit because of Lee+Miggy at 1B/DH.
Perhaps Ted Lilly + Ryan Theriot would be worth it, maybe if they throw in a low class reliever.
The Tigers are set at outfield and DH, as far as this season goes, if they trade for a decent starting pitcher and shortstop I’d say they win the division.
As a Cubs fan I’d take Lilly + Theriot + low class reliever for Porcello. It’d wrap them up in a bow and drive them to Detroit myself.
Which is probably a really bad sign if you’re a Tiger’s fan.
Wow it would be pretty awesome to see the Tigers get Haren and Drew in a combination deal from the Dbacks. A one-two punch of Verlander and Haren would be as good a, with Scherzer and Bonderman not too shabby either at the 3-4. Haren has pitched well in a hitter’s paradise in Arizona; his numbers would only improve in Comerica. And Drew would be perfect, I think a change of scenery and work with the Tigers hitting coach would do him some good. Wonder if Porcello, Oliver, Wilkin Ramirez, and Casper Wells would get it done. Wilkin and Casper are good prospects but the Tigers have A-Jax and Boesch in the OF for the considerable future. Tigers could pay Drew and Haren’s salary next year, and I like those two players better than most free agents next year, and it will be hard to get players to come to Detroit.
The Tigers would be morons to trade Porcello. He is most likely just in the kind of slump that Justin Verlander was in 2008 and could be great next season.