Odds & Ends: Francoeur, Theriot, Braves, Hacker

Links for Tuesday, as the American League Gold Glove winners are announced…


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57 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Francoeur, Theriot, Braves, Hacker"


HTF
4 years 9 months ago

I have a hunch that Magglio ends up a Brave after Wren can’t find a trade partner. Burrell scares me with the horrible WS he had. Could be a fluke season.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 9 months ago

Upton-Sure, shouldn’t be obscenely expensive
Ellsbury-take a physical and MRI and we’ll talk
Kemp-No, too expensive
Rasmus-No, way too expensive
Podsednik-GOD NO
Burrell-Meh, why not? He’d better hit the ball.
Magglio-As long as he can play left field on a regular basis, sure why not?
Berkman-see Magglio

timmytwoshoezzz
4 years 9 months ago

Keith Law says Arthur Rhodes is a player to avoid, in his relievers buyer’s guide.

Agreed. There is little need for a LH specialist with a 1.54 ERA across 35 IP in 41 appearances in the first half of 2010. That season total of 8.2 K/9IP and .196 BAagainst are also dreadful. Please retire immediately.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

But he’s a lefty specialist. And didn’t crack 1 WAR on FanGraphs this year. Anyone thinking of more than one or two years or more than $3-4MM are overpaying. I think that’s Law’s premise.

scatterbrian
4 years 9 months ago

Gauging relievers, particularly lefty specialists, by WAR isn’t very helpful. WAR is essentially a counting stat (meaning it’s based on quality but affected by quantity), and specialists by definition don’t pitch very often. The fact that Rhodes just turned 41 should be what keeps GMs from giving him more than one year, not his WAR.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

This makes no sense, and I mean that literally rather than derogatory. The fact that specialists don’t pitch very often limits their value so thus we shouldn’t use their value to value them? Can you clarify this a bit?

scatterbrian
4 years 9 months ago

Saying a reliever “didn’t crack 1 WAR” doesn’t mean a lot without knowing how many innings he pitched, or how his manager used him.

How about this: Luke Gregerson pitched 78.3 innings with a 1.3 WAR. Rhodes pitched 55 innings with a 0.9 WAR. They provided essentially the same value per inning, one was just used more than the other.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

Well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. Specialists don’t ever throw many innings because they’re in for often less than one inning per game for match-up purposes, so why pay them the same as a normal reliever? I think that is the crux of KLaw’s point, and why WAR is useful in this situation instead of just looking at him as a reliever with a low ERA/FIP.

scatterbrian
4 years 9 months ago

I like WAR, but it’s not an end-all be-all stat for me. WAR simplifies things, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Actually, I’ll let Bill James explain it:

“Analysis simplifies, by its nature. But the goal of analysis should not be to simplify as much as possible, because the more you simplify, the more you are leaving out. The goal of analysis should be to deal with as much of the complexity of the real world as you can deal with, rather than to do the opposite–to strip the world down to its simplest features.”

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

Well sure. He’s also really old, and his WAR/value is always going to be affected by the fact that he’s a LOOGY. Still basically what my point is.

We’re agreeing here, aren’t we? 😛

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Well, he’s old…
his WAR his not great… but who cares?
everyone should just be comparing him to other lefty specialists relievers, not to positions players or starters; and in comparison to other lefty specialists, he is very good.
his WAR isn’t the highest in the league, but no one is talking about making him the highest paid player in the league either…

I added nothing new to this discussion.. .I just wanted to see the comment-chain get progressively smaller and to the right… making an upside-down triangle…

based on his age: a year contract… maybe he’ll get lucky and get 2…who knows…

scatterbrian
4 years 9 months ago

I suppose so. My point wasn’t that WAR sucks for relievers, more that we shouldn’t stop looking after checking out WAR totals.

Did you know Rhodes’ 0.9 WAR would have been at least the third-best total on 23 teams last year? It would have been the highest total for the Cardinals. He’ll find work next year.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

Totally agree.

I assume you mean amongst bullpens, because, well, because that’s the only way that’s right and you obviously mean bullpens. :) I’d buy that. But Rhodes was also better in ’09, so it shows you that the big All-Star hype from this year is really just fluctuation and noise. He was also much worse in the second half than the first half, though regression had a lot to do with that.

scatterbrian
4 years 9 months ago

Oh yes, that’s amongst bullpens only.

4 years 9 months ago

I’m sad to see that Eric signed with the Twins. Because truly, is there a better fit for the Giants than some guy named Hacker?

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

I sense a trade in the future to get him back!

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

Looks like the Twins’ ‘pen got a little bit more replacement-level today.

RiverKKiller999
4 years 9 months ago

I DO NOT want Burrell on the team!Rasmus would be a great fit but would cost us a bunch in terms of prospects/top prospects.I wouldn’t mind having Magglio if the price is right .Upton or Ellsburry would be a good pickup as long as Ellsburry is healthy.We could definitely use a leadoff hitter with speed.

4 years 9 months ago

Burrell brings a RH power bat to the lineup. Why don’t you want that?

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

And the Braves are in the NL, so you don’t have to worry about him flopping against AL pitching again.

roberty
4 years 9 months ago

Burrell is a minus defender and he was all around horrible in Tampa. I am not sold on his offense either. I don’t see how returning to the NL can make anyone a better hitter.

BravesRed
4 years 9 months ago

He sucks in the AL.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

I’m not sure what happened with him, but, when he went back to the NL, he was great for the Giants.

14 Rocks
4 years 9 months ago

Agree, I don’t see why so many are on the Burrell bandwagon. He may have power but that comes and goes…..and at his age it will go more than it will come. Unless he is nothing more than a pinch hitter I don’t want him.

moonraker45
4 years 9 months ago

You heard it hear first, Jeff Francoeur is next years Jose Bautista

suPaFreaK
4 years 9 months ago

whaaaa?

4 years 9 months ago

And you heard it here first, moonraker45 just made a stupid comment.

4 years 9 months ago

Not saying I agree with Francoeur having success next year, (let alone that kind of success) but if moonraker had said the very same thing about Bautista this time last year you would have said it was a stupid comment too. Just sayin.

4 years 9 months ago

Yeah, but Jose Bautista could at least draw a walk.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

Bautista had actually displayed power and something resembling plate discipline before this season.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

This type of thing always makes me wonder – why does there *have* to be another Jose Bautista in 2011? There wasn’t one in ’09, or ’08, or ’07, etc.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

Actually, there was one in 2008. His name was Ryan Ludwick. And in 2009 you kind of had one in Russell Branyan (31 HRs while missing the last month of the year).

Yeah, we won’t see someone go from 10-15 HRs to 54 like Bautista did…but you see guys who had potential and never reach it, finally reach it after many years all the time actually.

azdsnd
4 years 9 months ago

Neither of them made anywhere near the jump that Bautista made, as you mentioned, and I assume that that was what the original comment was implying would happen with Frenchy.

roberty
4 years 9 months ago

Hahaha that would be hilarious.

Just_MLB
4 years 9 months ago

you heard it here first…barry bonds will be masquerading as jeff francour next season.

4 years 9 months ago

Passan’s free agent list is awesome. No, there isn’t any groundbreaking information there but once you hit number, oh let’s say 90-ish and beyond, it gets plain funny. My personal favorite is #150 Jeff Weaver: Yep, it gets worse. If want a snapshot of what the MLB junk pile looks like, scroll through that bad boy all the way to the end!

MLB_in_the_Know
4 years 9 months ago

In my opinion Braves OF solution = Alex Rios

BravesRed
4 years 9 months ago

Not unless the ChiSox want nothing much back, and eat about 70-80% of his contract, don’t think that will happen any time soon. Unless Rios + cash for Kawakami.

MLB_in_the_Know
4 years 9 months ago

There would be no need for them to eat a bunch of money. Send McLouth and a couple mid level prospects…done deal.

14 Rocks
4 years 9 months ago

So, exactly why would the White Sox trade a productive Rios for an un-productive McLouth and “mid-level” prospects??? If they take McLouth the Braves would be required to send them Grade A prospects, not mid-level ones.

4 years 9 months ago

No, no it’s not a done deal. That’s a horrible trade proposal.

coolstorybro222
4 years 9 months ago

yeah. THey would actually want someone like Tehren for him so yeah.

14 Rocks
4 years 9 months ago

The offseason for the Braves doesn’t sound too promising unless they can swing a trade for Kemp, Rasmus, or Upton – with Rasmus being the #1 target of that grouping.

The thought of bringing in more over-the-hill gang guys like Burrell and Ordonez is extremely un-appetizing. I so hope the Braves are sold next year to a private owner who actually is willing to spend money on the team, unlike Malone and Liberty Media.

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

I’d throw a guy like Delmon Young in that mix. Yeah he’s probably not available (then again, Rasmus probably really isn’t baring a huge deal)….but the Twins could move Kubel to LF and re-sign Thome. Have a few OF prospects too.

They’d probably want Jurrjens though in return if not more (Young finally came into his own).

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

Delmon Young ain’t worth it.

roberty
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t see why the Braves should sell the farm for a guy like Kemp, who would only be around for 2011 and 2012. Heyward and Freeman are going to continue to improve, and so will our young bullpen and rotation. The Braves will be poised to win several championships between 2013 and 2018 but we have to be patient and realize that we have a very strong core of players right now, but we are still in a building phase, and the best is yet to come.

RiverKKiller999
4 years 9 months ago

You couldn’t have said it any better .Agreed

Beersy
4 years 9 months ago

Theriot would be a nice pick up for the Padres. He doesn’t do anything particularly well, but he doesn’t do anything particularly bad either. He could fit in at either middle infield position and bat 2nd or 8th. I actually wanted the Padres to get him last year at the deadline instead of Tejada, he just seems to fit what the Padres should be trying to do better than Tejada did.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

Theriot is horrible. 19 extra base hits and bad defense. He is not the solution for any team’s troubles.

crashcameron
4 years 9 months ago

you never know
Edger Renteria and Juan Uribe were extra large, their World Series experience proving clutch
then there’s Pat Burrell: he now has two rings that can’t be denied and had some key hits along the road to both, but in either of the finals would it have mattered if he was there or not?

SteelCityResident13
4 years 9 months ago

Welcome to Pittsburgh Mr. Jeff Francoeur!

Hermie13
4 years 9 months ago

The AL gold glove winners list makes me sick….

BravesRed
4 years 9 months ago

I disagree with the pitcher, catcher, and shortstop.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

The 3 Yankees shouldn’t be there.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 9 months ago

Braves fans, it’s time to accept reality that we are not going to be able to hang on to Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, Arodys Vizcaino and JJ Hoover all at once. That’s just stupid. At least one of those guys is going to be needed in a trade for Ellsbury or Upton and possibly two of them for Kemp or Rasmus. If any team thinks they’re getting Teheran though they can go pound salt. How about this?
Delgado
Cody Johnson
Brandon Hicks
Zeke Spruill
for Colby Rasmus and Allen Craig
Too much/too little from us/them? Don’t be a jerk about it either, it’s an honest question.

eyeglass1
4 years 9 months ago

It should say: Keith Law is a bad writing specialist to avoid, not Arthur Rhodes. Seems to be a misprint there. :)

coolstorybro222
4 years 9 months ago

Why can’t the braves just go after Ludwick? the dude is a perfect solution for us. A right-handed bat that can play LF/RF and plus he might not be that much after the eh season last year.