Tigers Sign Victor Martinez

The Tigers officially added a middle of the order bat, signing catcher Victor Martinez to a four-year, $50MM contract.  Martinez was widely regarded as the best offensive catcher available, though he may see significant time as Detroit's designated hitter. He'll earn $12MM in 2011, $13MM in 2012-13 and $12MM in 2014.

Martinez, 32 next month, hit .302/.351/.493 in 538 plate appearances for the Red Sox this year, earning his fourth All-Star nod.  As a switch-hitter, Martinez provides the left side protection the Tigers craved.  He also logged 904 innings behind the plate, a number that should decrease in Detroit due to the presence of Alex Avila.

Though the Red Sox hoped to re-sign Martinez, reportedly offering him a choice of three years and $36MM or four years and $42MM.  They can take solace in receiving the best available draft pick as part of their compensation.  The Tigers must surrender their #19 draft pick next year to the Red Sox, unless Detroit also signs Jayson Werth later.  In that case the Red Sox would get the Tigers' second-round pick.  Regardless, the Red Sox will also receive a supplemental draft pick. 

According to Ignacio Serrano of El Nacional, who broke the story, Martinez turned down a four-year, $48MM offer from the Orioles and a three-year, $48MM contract from the White Sox. MLBTR has learned that the White Sox in fact offered $48MM over four years. Martinez is represented by Octagon.

The Tigers have been baseball's most aggressive team this offseason.  Prior to the Martinez agreement, they committed $39.25MM to Brandon Inge, Jhonny Peralta, and Joaquin BenoitIn a November 10th poll, three of five MLBTR writers correctly predicted Martinez would sign with the Tigers.

Serrano broke the story, Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com reported that an agreement was in place and Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes reported on Twitter that the deal was official and added contract details.


456 Responses to Tigers Sign Victor Martinez Leave a Reply

  1. MetsEventually 5 years ago

    Nice! Great for the Tigers. Do they have money still to bid on Dunn/Werth though?

    • They should. 12 Mil a year really isn’t that compounding. They can try for Werth/Crawford now. Dunn, I would guess, is eliminated due to him being a DH and the Tigers need for a REAL corner OF’er

      • Guest 5 years ago

        I know its a juvenile comment to make, but I’d love to see them sign Werth too and screw the Sox on the higher pick. Werth in that lineup now would be damaging. I’d make them the early favorites for the Central if they could pick up one more back end arm at this point.

        • RedSox2219 5 years ago

          Shocker you want to screw the Red Sox.

          • Dustroia15 5 years ago

            I can’t imagine the Tigers outbidding the Sox for Werth, when the Sox have a mid-first round pick at stake.

          • RedSox2219 5 years ago

            I agree. Even though I hope Boston does not get Werth. I’d much rather get Crawford (obviously) but maybe sign Dunn and have the worst defensive tandem at 1B with Ortiz/Dunn.

          • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

            Ortiz playing the field = lulz

        • wakefield4life 5 years ago

          Werth wouldn’t survive in comerica. He has no opposite field power and only 4 of his 18 HRs hit in citizens would have cleared comeria (3 pull) if the weather conditions were the same. He would be far from damaging for the tigers.

        • wakefield4life 5 years ago

          to put that into perspective, if you were to take Werth’s spray chart in citizens and put it in Fenway, he actually winds up with 20 HRs in hitting to the green monsta.

    • Well 55 million came off the books. If the deals are evenly paid
      Peralta is due 5.625 mil
      Inge is due 5.75 mil
      Benoit is due 5.5 mil
      and with v-mart at 12.5 mil that totals to 29.375 mil…. assuming they won’t be raising the team’s salary from last year that leaves 25.625 mil. which in my opinion means the shopping spree is far from over only half way done. I expect an outfielder to be signed sometime :)

      • shortking98 5 years ago

        They also have a 6MM raise to pay Verlander, 0.5MM to Porcello, as well as arbitration raises so the actual figure is less than 20MM left assuming the payroll remains constant

      • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

        I wanted Dunn but 3 years from now that would be pretty ugly with him being a full time OF since Vmart wouldn’t be able to catch much at all anymore. Crawford seems destined to be an Angel so it looks like Werth is the remaining option. Not to mention he is a Boras client and the Red Sox are probably going to make a big push for him, he could get too expensive for my taste.

      • MetsEventually 5 years ago

        I’d rather have the Tigers sign Crawford. Much better player personally.

        You’re a Tigers fan, how do you feel about this trade: Beltran for Galarraga and Boesch? I didn’t think of it, but I believe an online journal did.

        • rockvssingleparents 5 years ago

          I’d be fine with that. Move Pagan to center, shhh don’t tell Beltran but Angel should’ve been there all of last year.

        • chreeschan 5 years ago

          That’s gotta be the dumbest trade proposal I’ve ever heard.

          • MetsEventually 5 years ago

            Well, why is this the dumbest trade proposal you’ve ever heard?

          • chreeschan 5 years ago

            We have Austin Jackson making league minimum, why do we need an 18million dollar center fielder?

          • MetsEventually 5 years ago

            True true, but he’s open to playing other OF positions. I would think if the Mets move Beltran, there would be some eating of money being done also.

        • ToledoFan 5 years ago

          how about a back end rotation guy like Perez for Boesch and Galla? I’d be much more interested in that.

          • MetsEventually 5 years ago

            Lols sure thing.

          • verlander 5 years ago

            Oh God, no.

          • ToledoFan 5 years ago

            why not? Galla is a #5 guy at best (despite one perfect game), and I really think Boesch was a flash in the pan type guy.

          • jphenix2002 5 years ago

            lmao this has to be a joke. Oliver Perez might actually be WORSE than willis

          • jphenix2002 5 years ago

            lmao this has to be a joke. Oliver Perez might actually be WORSE than willis

      • ToledoFan 5 years ago

        I did the calculations using the spreadsheet from COTS, and after I subtracted the players who left and factored in raises and moderate raises for 1st or second year arb guys, keeping payroll the same as 2010, I show the Tigers with 35.8 million left to spend.

        That’s enough to get Werth (15-18)
        De La Rosa (7-9)
        and a decent lefty reliever (2-4)

        • They won’t spend the same as last year.

          • ToledoFan 5 years ago

            Illitch has already said he’s not cutting payroll. He wants that ring bad. I don’t he’ll raise it but I don’t think he’ll drop it.

      • 75 million came off the books with expiring contracts for Ordonez, Bonderman, Robertson, Willis, Damon, Inge, Laird, Seay, and Everett.
        One 6 million raise for Verlander. Including all adjustments and arbitration cases, and the signings of Inge, Peralta, Martinez, Benoit, and Alburquerque, payroll is still 40 million below 2010 payroll.
        Enough to get an outfielder, a starting pitcher, and a reliever to replace Coke in the pen.

    • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

      Absolutley…This is just a fantastic Baseball day and I’m really happy about this!!!!

      • shysox 5 years ago

        Your Denard Span is probably not too happy about this.

        • Dave_Gershman 5 years ago

          he’s just a happy guy all the time. Hes just spanny being spanny

    • joepciappara1151 5 years ago

      as a tiger fan for over 50 years i do feel that they should bring in one more free agent but his name is crawford . as of today they do also lack a quilty #2 or a #3 batter in there batting order and on a plus side he does improve the teams defense as well as team spead. as for a second baseman goes i would cut ties with guillen if he couldn’t be ready at the start of the new season and i would give sizemore a chance to win or loss the starting job at second base. next i would trade oliver villarial raburn wells and even boesch for a pitcher named sanchez from the sf giants. he would make a damn good #3 or #4 in any major league rotation . last either bring back maggs or trade for beltran from the ny mets. trade galarraga plus a prospect for one year of his service. who knows he may have overcome his injures that have cost him playing time over the past two years and then at the least if he turns in an ave year for himself his numbers would equal or be better then maggs but the greatest reason to concider a trade for him is because of his fielding as well as being a class player as well. a final word offense is nice but defense and pitching wins games. with crawford sanchez and maggs or beltran there team would have a winning combination. does any one believe that the tigers couldn’t compeat against the best from either leauge…….

      • Joey 5 years ago

        “next i would trade oliver villarial raburn wells and even boesch for a pitcher named sanchez from the sf giants”

        Yes because the Giants would just accept Oliver and our crap for Sanchez.

        • joepciappara1151 5 years ago

          there has been times within the past within a pill of crap that a beautiful flower does grows. if you look at todays sf roster they do not only lack power but also replacements players within there present system to cover there needs. one thing they do have is pitching at the major league leval as well as in there minor league system. rayburn offers a bat with some power and wells offers more potential then what sf has on its todays roster. so please feel free to look over these facts before looking into a toilet. as i said before i am a tiger fan but i also do like and follow the sf team since i have been living in the bay area for over 30 years. is this possible trade onesided or not is not what matters at this point but what does matter for sf is could they repeat with there present roster today……… and i do think not

          • Joey 5 years ago

            Oliver would be the centerpiece of the deal, but there isn’t really anything else there that the Giants would be enticed by. I don’t know the SFG minors top to bottom, but if Casper Wells, who’s 26 and has proven virtually nothing at the major league level.

            Yes, Wells had about 100 PA that were really good for the Tigers this year, but he struck out 20% of the time compared to a 6% walk rate. He was also able to keep up a .373 BABIP through the short sample size.

            As for Raburn, he could be valuable in the right circumstances. Personally if I was a GM I wouldn’t want to take a chance on a guy that hits .180 for the first four months of the season (and yes I know he wasn’t a regular during that time). I would also love to see him slaughter playing defense at AT&T.

            I also don’t know what GM would be willing to give a lot for Boesch following his .163/.237/.222 line through 300 PA in the second half.

        • joepciappara1151 5 years ago

          there has been times within the past within a pill of crap that a beautiful flower does grows. if you look at todays sf roster they do not only lack power but also replacements players within there present system to cover there needs. one thing they do have is pitching at the major league leval as well as in there minor league system. rayburn offers a bat with some power and wells offers more potential then what sf has on its todays roster. so please feel free to look over these facts before looking into a toilet. as i said before i am a tiger fan but i also do like and follow the sf team since i have been living in the bay area for over 30 years. is this possible trade onesided or not is not what matters at this point but what does matter for sf is could they repeat with there present roster today……… and i do think not

    • Still 40 million below last year’s payroll after signing Inge, Peralta, Benoit, Martinez, counting Verlander’s raise and all other arbitration and salary adjustments.

  2. Since_77 5 years ago

    Good to get him out of the AL East. He was always a tought out for the Yanks

  3. Guest 5 years ago

    Good for the Tigers. I can’t criticize their moves. I think they are filling their needs and they are not sitting around waiting for it to come to them. Now they can pick up a few things off the scrap heap in a few weeks. They didn’t have to trade any young talent either.

  4. InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

    Good signing, I actually thought it would be a 5 yr deal for more money.

    • mistermonkey 5 years ago

      Agreed — given how lavish the contract could have been, it’s impressive. I mean, VMart will make the same amount next year that Carlos Guillen does. The only thing I question is whether the deal look as bad as Guillen’s come 2014.

  5. Someone has to explain more about the 3yr/$48M white sox offer rumor. I still can’t believe he turned that down even though it’s in Ignacio’s article in plain, Venezuelan Spanish.

    • I asked Morosi if he could confirm that part; I’m sure something will come out sooner or later.

    • alxn 5 years ago

      If it is true it might be the first time someone turned down a better offer to live in Detroit

      • airohpue13 5 years ago

        Screw you.

        • alxn 5 years ago

          u mad?

        • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

          Detroit pretty much is the toilet bowl of America

          • TartanElk 5 years ago

            Nah that’s pretty much St. Louis. I was born and lived in Detroit. I love the place so much. I also lived in St. Louis, that place is the real toilet bowl of America.

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            lets just all agree that the united states is a land of many toilets.

          • 0bsessions 5 years ago

            Says the Canadian. Go take your government subsidized healthcare and…and…*sniffle*

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            Dual citizenship baby, I live in the Florida 4 months out of the year!

          • Dustroia15 5 years ago

            Senior citizen baby!

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            I’m only 28, but yes there are a terrible amount of old people in florida…. I have rage blackouts while driving.

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            I’m only 28, but yes there are a terrible amount of old people in florida…. I have rage blackouts while driving.

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            and…and…and…get free professional health care that won’t have you making life decisions between getting medical treatment or selling your house? Damn republicans.

          • Yeah, Like O’Dumbo is making this country a better place to live? NOT. We’ll be another Somalia by the time his term is over.

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            OK maybe I should’ve have made this a political forum but…don’t drink the kool aid dude. And to think we could ever be reduced to anything less than a super power is a joke.

          • PJaysW 5 years ago

            just wow.

          • verlander 5 years ago

            Really?

          • bustersposey 5 years ago

            glenn beck thinks you’re nuts.

          • 0bsessions 5 years ago

            Says the Canadian. Go take your government subsidized healthcare and…and…*sniffle*

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            Is it the Port Authority of the world?

          • I can’t believe nobody gave you any love for this comment. Port Authority is truly the worst place in the country, and I say that as someone who loves New York.

          • Guest 5 years ago

            No one said Detroit is all rosy-posy. The playes live in the suburbs (and, yes, they can get beautiful homes for far less money than in fancier cities) but they do drive downtown to get to Comerica. Comerica is a sanctuary in the middle of chaos and is a beloved place to be.

          • Mickeyblue 5 years ago

            St. Louis and Detroit are basically the same city except St. Louis has much nicer burbs. But yes St Louis is a hell hole, Detroit and St. Louis are the only two comparable cities in america to eachother.

          • Mickeyblue 5 years ago

            St. Louis and Detroit are basically the same city except St. Louis has much nicer burbs. But yes St Louis is a hell hole, Detroit and St. Louis are the only two comparable cities in america to eachother.

          • Bobk48224 5 years ago

            At least Detroit doesn’t have barges full of garbage floating in our water trying to con someone into taking it. Tell me doe the East river still have no swimming signs with skulls and crossbones on them?

      • Most likely turned down a better offer to become a part of the “Venezuelan Mafia”: Cabrera, Galaragga, Guillen, hopefully Maggs… playing with your countrymen probably held a lot of appeal.

        • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

          Don’t assume that all Venezuelan’s love the idea of being teammates w/ Ordonez. Isn’t he pro-Hugo Chavez to the dislike of some of national teammates?

          • the hopefully Maggs was about my desire, not anyone else’s :)

        • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

          Don’t assume that all Venezuelan’s love the idea of being teammates w/ Ordonez. Isn’t he pro-Hugo Chavez to the dislike of some of national teammates?

      • ToledoFan 5 years ago

        Detroit as a regular city is rough, not gonna argue that. As a baseball town, its one of the best. The fans love their team and their players and really stick with them. Peralta, Damon, and a bunch of other Tiger players have gone on record to say that they love playing in Detroit. Maybe Detroit isn’t the greatest place in the world to live and work in, but apparently its pretty good to play baseball in.

        • alxn 5 years ago

          I’m sure you are right. I was just making a joke at Detroit’s reputation. I wasnt trying to offend anyone.

        • verlander 5 years ago

          Also, the players don’t have to live in downtown Detroit, they just work there. There’s a reason potential free agent signings sometimes take a “tour” of Oakland County during the courting process.

  6. j6takish 5 years ago

    Glad to see that all those Hot’N Readys I bought throughout college are finally paying off

  7. Jason_F 5 years ago

    I think the most shocking thing about this report is that the White Sox offered Martinez 3 years and $48M.

    • PJaysW 5 years ago

      can we get over this? even if the report is accurate, why can’t we allow that a player may have chosen a scenario he felt was a better fit?

      • BWOzar 5 years ago

        Jason_F is right. What is there to get over? First of all, why would anyone choose to live in Detroit instead of Chicago? More importantly, he’d get nearly the exact same amount (and considering how the first seasons might be invested 48 mil in 3 years is likely to be worth more at the end of year 4 than 50 mil in 4 years). Plus he’d have free agency again a year younger. I think that article has to be a translation issue – I think it’d make sense if the article meant to say something like Chicago offered 3 years, 39 mil or maybe even 3 years, 42 mil.

        • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

          You do know that practically none of the athletes actually live in Detroit right? And I have lived in Detroit for a few years now, and obviously it has its nasty parts, but around Comerica and the Wayne State area (where I went to college) it actually is quite nice. Now it is no Chicago by any means, but it shouldn’t be enough to discourage Vmart from signing here.

          Plus we have had alot of Venezuelans on the Tigers so he probably feels more comfortable around his countrymen. Cabrera and Guillen among others hail from there as well.

          • I’m sure Detroit has some very nice suburbs. What I can’t get over is why the Sox were willing to overpay so much for a DH. As a catcher he might be worth that much but he’s practically useless behind the plate. You can’t play him everyday cause he’s an injury risk. He’s just not worth 16MM a year at this stage. I hope the report was false.

            And Leyland, our effing MANAGER is Venezuelan. As our several other players on our team. I doubt that had to do with anything.

          • I think the White Sox would have played him at 1st base, but that is just speculation.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            I don’t really mean to hate on Detroit, I’m more emphasizing that Chicago is one of the greatest cities on Earth (not to mention one of the great baseball cities).

            I think that it’s incredibly strange that a player would choose to sign for only 75% of the value the market suggests he’s worth, regardless of city. 48 mil over 3 years is likely to be MORE valuable in actual wealth than 50 mil over 4 years.

            Yes, let’s assume that all those Venezuelans MUST be friends with one another! I’m sure you love every one of your co-workers simply because they’re American like you. I don’t buy Jingoistic ‘more Venezuelans’ arguments; show me some evidence Martinez has an actual relationship with Cabrera or Guillen and we might be on to something. Just as a small example, Jorge Posada’s best friend on the Yankees isn’t one of his fellow Puerto Ricans – it’s Derek Jeter. I don’t think we’d assume that Cliff Lee would sign with a team because they have more Southerners or folks from Arkansas on it – let’s not play that game because someone is of Latin descent.

          • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

            No he might not already know them, but if I were to be playing ball in Japan I would sure as hell want to be on a team with a few Americans.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            Considering the fact he’s been in America for 15 years now and is from about 350 miles away from Cabrera and Guillen’s home town I don’t think there’s ANY correlation whatsoever.

          • verlander 5 years ago

            Jhonny Peralta and Victor Martinez were BFFs on the Indians. Maybe that had some influence.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            There we go! Didn’t know of their friendship, but I could definitely see that sort of thing being a contributing factor to Martinez’s choice. Even though Petalta is *GASP* Dominican!

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            You just pissed off all of Washington Hts dude. Be careful…..be very careful.

        • Metro Detroit is amazing, and I go to school in Detroit and its not bad in the areas mentioned. Its just such a big city(bigger then manhatten/LA combined) that there are bound to be bad areas. Anyways maybe he just wanted the Tigers over the chisox is that so hard to believe? Not work for a manager that has a rep for treating venezualen players poorly(mags) and a team that isnt poised to add more pieces. The Tigers have a ton of money to spend and an owner that wants to spend it, mixed in with our current young starters (porcello/scherzer) and turner/oliver coming up its an attractive destination.

          I could go on further about why the tigers are simply more desirable then the white sox.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            My point is that he left a hell of a lot of money on the table if that 3 for 48 offer is true. The White Sox have, arguably, a better core to build around as well. Detroit has three absolutely fantastic players (Cabrera, Verlander and Scherzer) but beyond that the roster is uninspiring (Porcello has upside, Jackson had a great season but it’s not reflective of his true talent). Chicago, at least, has 5 strong starting pitchers under contract, a solid, if unspectacular, positional talent around in Rios, Quentin, Beckham and Ramirez and superb relief arms.I don’t really mean to hate on Detroit, I’m more emphasizing that Chicago is one of the greatest cities on Earth (not to mention one of the great baseball cities).

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            I don’t think it’s fair to say that he treats Venezeulan players badly as much as to say that he and Maggs, both from Venezuela, may not share the same opinion of Hugo Chavez who Maggs supports. A lot of Venezuelans have problems with Chavez. Who is to say that the others don’t share Guillen’s dislike of Maggs too?

        • dskirsa 5 years ago

          Why would anyone want to live on the south side of Chicago? After all, that’s where the White Sox play. Since you assume that players live next door to stadiums and, gasp, why would anyone want to live in nasty Detroit, I have to ask…why would anyone live in southside Chicago?

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            Yup. That’s EXACTLY my point. You nailed it. Congratulations.

            To respond briefly, I think if you asked 100 Americans if they’d rather live in Chicago or Detroit I’d bet 99 or so would say Chicago. But, again, it was one throwaway line at the beginning of my comment – my point is that the dollars don’t make sense.

          • dskirsa 5 years ago

            Your point is that you don’t realize that there is more to Detroit than what you saw on 8 Mile and that you are ignorant. Nice work.

            A throwaway comment isn’t something that you lead with.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            #1 I’ve been to Detroit twice.
            #2 My comment clearly said ‘more importantly’
            #3 I think it’s a good signing, but simply don’t understand why anyone (even if the cities were reversed) would choose to sign with the team coming off the worse season for more years and less TOTAL money.

          • YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

            Not to beat up on you but to say “I’ve been to Detroit twice” is like saying I have a “blank” friend so I know all about being “blank”.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            One of my close friends went to law school at Detroit Mercy, hence my being in the city.

          • BWOzar 5 years ago

            #1 I’ve been to Detroit twice.
            #2 My comment clearly said ‘more importantly’
            #3 I think it’s a good signing, but simply don’t understand why anyone (even if the cities were reversed) would choose to sign with the team coming off the worse season for more years and less TOTAL money.

      • nhsox 5 years ago

        Because of the players union that allegedly looks out for players’ best interests.

    • I know! Shocking that nobody would be clamoring to play for a Chicago team who was just as crappy as the Tigers last year with a d!ck for a manager. I’m blown away myself.

      • Oh yeah, 88-74 is just as crappy as those .500 Tigers who had one offensive player and no back end to their rotation. And I’m sure Martinez would not share your sentiments about the manager whom you so eloquently described, seeing as how they’re both from Venezuela and Martinez IDOLIZED the man when he was a boy.

    • I know! Shocking that nobody would be clamoring to play for a Chicago team who was just as crappy as the Tigers last year with a d!ck for a manager. I’m blown away myself.

    • flickadave 5 years ago

      I thought that was pretty bizarre, too. If you are Victor, why are you willing to play the 4th year for $2 million?

  8. MB923 5 years ago

    “The Tigers must surrender their #19 draft pick next year to the Red Sox, unless Detroit also signs Jayson Werth later.”

    May sound dumb, but I’m a little lost. How would signing Jayson Werth save them a draft pick?

  9. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    I gotta think with both Buck and VMart signed that Theo will make an aggressive move for Napoli.

    • RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

      I hope youi’re right! A Salty/Napoli combo would be sweet and would be for half of what vmarts making next year! I love the fact the sox seem committed to giving Salty a chance to shine as they did with Youk and Pedroia previously!

  10. basemonkey 5 years ago

    You know you’re a badass if your agent is a polygon.

  11. dc21892 5 years ago

    Well as a Red Sox fan this is a tough blow. His defense was okay, but we can deal with that because his bat at his position is so rare. Good sign for the Tigers, he’s a class act. Wonder what Bostons plans are now.

    • soxfan0928 5 years ago

      Well we now have about $20mm freed up from Beltre and Vic to go find a power bat. Wonder if this will light some fire under Theo’s butt to make a blockbuster deal and sign a significant bat? Crawford + Gonzalez, Werth + Gonzalez, etc.

      • dc21892 5 years ago

        Blockbuster deals means giving up prospects with high ceilings. He had the chance to keep a solid offensive with just money and saving prospects but he didn’t.

        • flickadave 5 years ago

          Signing VMart would have cost the Sox a 1st round and supplemental pick AND $$$ if you consider the compensation picks. I’m betting Beltre walks so the Sox can get those picks, too.

  12. ugotrpk3113 5 years ago

    Don’t touch his head.

    • Ben_Cherington 5 years ago

      Wasnt that Beltre that spazzed out for touching his head or was it both of them?

    • Fangaffes 5 years ago

      That was Beltre. Touch his head and he’ll break your ribs.

    • dc21892 5 years ago

      That was Beltre.

  13. I think this is a pretty good move for Detroit.

  14. Like the signing. No issues at all. He will play 50 games at C, tops, and maybe 5 at 1B. Really like him as our DH and leaves us open to get one of the other top FA hitters.

    • This is a good signing. Now they have enought cash to go after another free agent!

    • flickadave 5 years ago

      OK, let me get this straight…. you are happy that your team is spending $12.5 million for a guy that will mostly be a DH? HUH?

      • rbeezy 5 years ago

        When you have Mr. I’s money you can do whatever you like, Tigers are going to be contenders next year. Magglio will be back and they’ll sign or trade another arm for the rotation and bullpen.

        • flickadave 5 years ago

          Yeah, having deep pockets helps with fielding a competitive team. I just find it interesting that so few people are bringing up paying $12.5 m for a DH in VMart’s case while there were people all over the place savaging picking up Papi’s $12.5 option that only committed the Red Sox to one year. Go figure…

  15. HHHDMS 5 years ago

    Its a good signing for the Tigers, while the Sox still have Jason Veritek
    He will add pop to the Tigers lineup with or without them signing Maglio

  16. rockvssingleparents 5 years ago

    the Orioles couldn’t bump it up a couple million??? If we sign Paul Konerko or Derek Lee I’m going to be furious.

    • Konerko’s a great player and a very underrated defender, you’d be lucky to have him.

      • rockvssingleparents 5 years ago

        Contract year. Other than that he’s been pretty average the last few seasons. He won’t come close to what he did last year, especially if he leaves the Central for the East.

        • shysox 5 years ago

          Say what you want about contract years. There are players that play out their contract years horribly. A .310 batting average, 40 home runs, 110 runs batted in, a .400 OBP, a .584 SLG and a OPS close to .1000 doesn’t just happen. I have yet to hear of a player that has an MVP-caliber year at age 34, and completely falters for the rest of his career/

    • Yeah i agree, though i wonder if the O’s were in it just to force the Tigers to increase their offer. Maybe they didn’t even get a chance to counter. I like V-mart but $50 million would be about the limit I’d give him over 4 years.

  17. Red Sox offense has just crumpled to the ground. Unless Ortiz decides to start the roids up again.

    • Ferrariman 5 years ago

      they were one of the best offensives last season with half a AAAA team.

    • Ferrariman 5 years ago

      they were one of the best offensives last season with half a AAAA team.

    • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

      It’s really amazing how a few years ago they had a wicked offense, to literally nothing (outside of Pedroia and Youkillis)

  18. Guest 5 years ago

    Well, Victor might have wanted to come to Detroit because he has friends on the team. It’s also cheaper to live in Detrot than Boston or Chicago. Just ask Curtis Granderson. One of the reasons I loved Damon so much were his comments about Detroit “getting a bad rap.” OMG, I love Victor and he chose Detroit.

    • Garafraxaguy 5 years ago

      Yeah, like Martinez was having trouble making his rent payments right?

    • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

      Detroit also has double the violent crime rate of Boston… hey if we’re gonna factor in economics we might as well factor in crime.

    • melonis_rex 5 years ago

      Detroit has plenty of economic problems. Of course, you don’t really feel them if you’re living in the suburbs of Detroit, which its obvious all the Tigers players are.

      • dskirsa 5 years ago

        Yea, what’s up with all these people that assume baseball players are living in the slums of Detroit? Did you guys watch 8 mile and just assume that’s how the entire Detroit area is?

        • moonraker45 5 years ago

          Vmart is going to live at hooome in a trailerrrrrrr

    • “It’s also cheaper to live in Detrot than Boston or Chicago.”

      Important point considering he just made 50$ million.

      • nhsox 5 years ago

        What does that mean? It’s cheaper to live in Detroit regardless of income.

        • moonraker45 5 years ago

          I think he means with 50 million dollars who really cares.

      • airohpue13 5 years ago

        With that logic why can it be a deal breaker when one team offers 50 millions but another team is willing to offer 55 million? Rich people don’t like saving money and getting more money?

  19. corey72774 5 years ago

    They freed up alot more than 20 million …Beltre,Martinez,Lowell,Lugo are all off the books…they have all the money they need to get some of the pieces they need …. I think the problem will be finding the players that want to come to Boston. Crawford, IMHO, will end up with the Halos, Werth hopefully signs somewhere else. I think The Sox are going to have to make thier moves in the trade market.

    • soxfan0928 5 years ago

      I said between Beltre and Vic, they freed up 20mm. Add Lowell and Lugo and they’ve freed up over 40mm.

      • shysox 5 years ago

        Jason Varitek, $3 million.
        Victor Martinez, $7.7 million.
        Mike Lowell, $12 million.
        Lugo, Wagner, Gonzalez: $10.5 million.
        That’s close to $35 million.
        Kevin Youkilis, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Jon Lester, Dustin Pedroia, and Josh Beckett all get raises in their contract, and they all total $10.525MM. Jacoby Ellsbury is going to arbitration for the first time, Hideki Okajima and Jonathan Papelbon as 3rd timers.
        Well keeping it simple i think they have a little less then 40 million, maybe 35 million, but that’s just an estimate.

  20. BirdsRule 5 years ago

    At least the O’s made a legit offer, should shut the haters up a bit. V-mart wanted to catch, and he will get more time behind the plate in Detroit than Bmore. Tigers have been busy early this year.

  21. $1742854 5 years ago

    Motor City Kitties still need some starting pitching. All the offense in the world won’t get you to the World Series if you don’t have a dominant 1-3 starters (see SF Giants). Verlander is a good start…

    And I say this too about my Twins. They’ve got a 1/2 Ace in Liriano but nothing dominant after that.

    • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

      You mean Verlander and Scherzer is a good start. Scherzer was more dominant than Verlander when he came back up from the minors in the beginning of the season. If Porcello can pick up where he left off after his rookie campaign and the 2nd half of last season, then we have a very promising 1-3. Phil Coke is being moved into the rotation this season also and he should be more than serviceable as a #4 or 5 starter. Not the best rotation in the game but should be more than sufficient IF everyone pitches to their ability.

    • Scherzer is legitimate number 2, I dont really think that’s a question up for debate.

      Porcello could be a 3 but clearly wasn’t last year. If your more general point was that they need another 3/4 arm, then yeah, I agree with you.

      • Pawsdeep 5 years ago

        Sherzer could be a number one on a dozen rotations–dude has filthy stuff and is still really young. Porcello is only 22 and take away a sophomore slump was a man beast at age 20.
        The phillies are the only team with a better 1-2-3 than Detroit and that crown might be theirs at the end of this year if scherzer and porcello do what they did at the end if last year. The tigers have a nasty, hard throwing rotation and have shown they can absolutely dominant when things are clicking.

  22. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    More than I’m comfortable paying, but less than I expected him to get and I’m VERY surprised he signed this early with the market set so high by Buck and him being the premiere catching bat. I really did anticipate the Tigers spending way too much. I’d like to see the way it’s constructed. If it’s front loaded, I’d say a good deal overall for the Tigers.

    • soxfan0928 5 years ago

      As far as the luxury tax is concerned, payroll is calculated at average annual value, so if he made 12mm 12mm 13mm 13mm in actual payroll dollars, for luxury tax purposes his salary is 12.5mm 12.5mm 12.5mm 12.5mm. Not sure if that’s why you were wondering, or if you were just wondering based on value provided compared to salary.

    • nhsox 5 years ago

      Why? If it’s front loaded, that raises the NPV of the contract and makes it more expensive. Corresponding salary to player value is irrelevant as far as Martinez’s income stream value is concerned.

  23. LifeLongYankeeFan 5 years ago

    Well thanks Tigers as a Yankee fan this can’t hurt our chances of signing Lee. No Martinez-Lee combo sorry Texas. We’ll have to wait and see. Now here will come the comments about me being a greedy bandwagon fan sorry but I like for my team to be good thats not a crime I don’t think.

    • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

      No… no comments about being greedy… just not sure how VMart signing with the Tigers has any effect on Lee.

      • soxfan0928 5 years ago

        Rangers were in on Lee and Vic. Lee and Vic have a history together. If the Rangers landed Vic, they could use that as leverage in their pursuit of Lee.

        • moonraker45 5 years ago

          it’s all about the benjamins, baby

        • 0bsessions 5 years ago

          Unlikely considering, as many people have pointed out, Lee’s only really great year with the Indians saw Shoppach behind the plate the VAST majority of his starts. Martinez won’t have anything to do with Lee’s destination.

          • soxfan0928 5 years ago

            I didn’t follow the tribe enough to know who caught Lee in the majority of his starts, I was just trying to explain the logic behind the comment that huften made. Should have known that a Yankees fan would have none though.

        • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

          Lee AND Martinez? Isn’t this the same team that is at/near bankruptcy?

    • moonraker45 5 years ago

      I don’t think you’re greedy, I just don’t think where vmart signed has anything to do with Cliff Lee. .

  24. airohpue13 5 years ago

    I was just about to say that. Tigers have the upper hand in bringing in the Venezuelans.

  25. BoomDizzle 5 years ago

    This is great news…the Sox are following the bridge to mediocrity.

  26. I can’t believe the sox went and offered 3/48.

  27. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    Ha! And the Sox thought their 2010 team wasn’t sexy…sub Salty for Victor, sub Lowrie for Beltre. 2010 never looked so good…

  28. hawkny1 5 years ago

    Good luck Tigers. V-Mart is now your $50M headache.
    Best to you also Victor. Boston’s fans appreciate the efforts you made during the 18 months you played in our town.

    • Dustroia15 5 years ago

      If the Sox signed him for 4/50, you would be praising the move.

      • hawkny1 5 years ago

        Not really.  I watched the game last year when Carl Crawford stole 6 bases against him.  All I could think of is “there goes Theo’s emphasis on defense….down the toilet”  Victor is a nice player who came on in September to raise his BA, HR’s and RBI’s to positive levels for contract purposes. But at 32, he is not my idea of a team leader, defensive stalwart and someone to build  a team around for the future.

        • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

          Good thing Tigers arent planning to use him as their FT catcher.

          • hawkny1 5 years ago

            That is the $52M question isn’t it.  What are they going to do with him for the next 4 years?

          • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

            Maybe he can platoon at 2B with Guillen?

            …lol

          • YODA777 5 years ago

            I think the Tigers will use him more at catcher then everyone is suggesting.

          • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

            DD announced V-mart will be their primary DH.

        • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

          Good thing Tigers arent planning to use him as their FT catcher.

        • 1. He’ll be a DH most of the year, meaning he can’t suck on defense
          2. They aren’t building the team around him, they’re building it around Cabrera and Verlander
          3. All he is, is a younger Carlos Guillen. A switch hitter, with some power, who can’t play the field

          • hawkny1 5 years ago

            And………when was the last time the Tigers won the World Series? 
            Boston foolishly gave David Ortiz 4/$50 after 2007.  At that point Papi was the toast of Boston, having had 3 successive monster years and had become the most popular figure in the New England media.  He should have earned 3/$27 after that experience but the front office caved in to pressure. As a half time player (just offense) they gave him one half of Alex Rodriguez’s money ($25M)…..   
             
            My points are, I don’t think that (1) Victor can come close to those monster years that Papi had and, (2) Victor would have been over paid at 4/$42 (14, 14, 7, 7) if he took Boston’s deal.  Victor, as a DH is gonna be paid about $20M more than he is worth…. Essentially he is gonna be paid as though he were a full time position player, without a position.  None the less, I hope I am wrong.  The Tigers deserve the best they can get for their fans…

        • airohpue13 5 years ago

          “I watched the game last year when Carl Crawford stole 6 bases against him.”

          Wasn’t that Wakefield pitching?

          • hawkny1 5 years ago

            Tell you the truth…I don’t remember…it may have been but my memory focused on  Crawford’s exploits…  I felt a sense of embarassment… and, at the same time, anger…at Theo for not considering Victor’s defensive weaknesses when he went out and got him from Cleveland..

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      Lol. I remember reading comments similar to this when the tigers traded for Cabrera.

      • hawkny1 5 years ago

        No comparison….  Cabrera is a “franchise” player on both offense and defense….

        • Ferrariman 5 years ago

          you must be a blind detroit fan to think Cabrera is an asset on defense.

          • snapcase8p 5 years ago

            And apparently because you don’t watch him everyday like Tiger’s fans do to realize what great strides he made as a defensive 1B. He was above average defensively while playing his first full year there. He made numberous diving catches and showed decent range. His only problem is that he isn’t going to win any vertical contests and occassionally he would range too far for a ball instead of letting the 2b get it as evident by the “imperfect game” But that will get better with experience.

          • snapcase8p 5 years ago

            And apparently because you don’t watch him everyday like Tiger’s fans do to realize what great strides he made as a defensive 1B. He was above average defensively while playing his first full year there. He made numberous diving catches and showed decent range. His only problem is that he isn’t going to win any vertical contests and occassionally he would range too far for a ball instead of letting the 2b get it as evident by the “imperfect game” But that will get better with experience.

          • hawkny1 5 years ago

            And wife beater too.   I only knoww what I read.  If what you say is true, the Tigers are really screwed, or to put it another way, have really screwed themselves….

  29. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    I wonder if Atlanta would make Ross available for trade. He is the best back up in the game but maybe the Braves would be willing to part with him for the right deal. He is good enough to be a starter but with McCann as the guy in front of you, that’s only going to happen 30% of the time

  30. Sky14 5 years ago

    I dunno how he could turn down a 3 year deal for 48 million, that cannot be right

    • 0bsessions 5 years ago

      Presumably security. Sure, the AAV is MUCH higher, but a lot of players do actually value knowing where they’ll be playing the next year over the dollar amount when you get that high up. He might’ve preferred knowing he’ll have a job in 2014 than having an extra few million.

      • moonraker45 5 years ago

        MUCH higher = 2 million bucks?

        • 0bsessions 5 years ago

          My math shows an AAV differential of $3.5 million. That’s essentially 25%, so yeah, much higher.

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            4/50 compared to 3/48…. where are you getting your numbers from?

          • shortking98 5 years ago

            AAV is the per year amount, you are refering to the total, the AAVs are 16MM for 3/48 and 12.5MM for 4/50; a 3.5MM difference

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            No matter how its sliced up, he’s technically playing the 4th year for 2 million dollars

            (if that deal was actually offered)

          • shortking98 5 years ago

            I don’t see why this is so difficult. 0bsessions is stating that the AAV (average annual value) of a 3/48 contract is much higher than a 4/50 contract. The difference between the two AAV’s is 3.5MM. Yes, the difference in the total number is 2MM but the difference in AAV is 3.5MM. This is where he is getting his numbers

          • flickadave 5 years ago

            I think the problem might be that if you invested the $$$ from the 3/$48m contract you might actually wind up with more money than playing out the 4/$50m contract when all is said and done. Essentially he will be playing his 4th year for free just to know where he will be playing.

          • moonraker45 5 years ago

            4/50 compared to 3/48…. where are you getting your numbers from?

  31. Guest 5 years ago

    I just spoke to someone who suggested that if this contract is signed tonight, the Sox can no longer offer Martinez arbitration, hense losing the draft pick. Anyone confirm this?

    • RedSoxDynasty 5 years ago

      Tell “SOMEONE” that drugs are bad for you!

    • shortking98 5 years ago

      Almost correct, the Sox will not be able to offer arbitration but they are guaranteed the draft pick by Martinez signing before the deadline

    • Dustroia15 5 years ago

      Not true

  32. Potrzeba 5 years ago

    This is a big lose to Boston. Victor was amzaing with us! He will be missed. I wonder where the sox go from here.

    • Dustroia15 5 years ago

      Hopefully make a strong push for Davis Ross…I know he is a key piece to the team but I can’t imagine a back up catcher wouldn’t be available for the right price.

  33. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    Who wants to bet that Varitek gets offered arbitration now?

  34. Why are so many comments about boston? who the hell cares if they get napoli? Or comparisons between him and ortiz? Or how much money the red sox have freed up? This is about the TIGERS signing a player. Its like everyone wants to make every signing out to be “how does this effect boston/new york” its bull. Get over your least coast egos.

    • soxfan0928 5 years ago

      Yeah. The Least Coast is so much worse than the Most Coast. Freaking least coast fans. Get over yourself. The Most Coast rules!

    • soxfan0928 5 years ago

      Clearly people are talking about the Sox because this affects their offseason moves just as much as the Tigers. Because Victor played for the Red Sox last year. Get it?

      • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

        Talking about what the Sox lost in Victor is ok…

        …turning it into a p*ssing match about theoretical Ortiz vs Martinez comparisons is a hijack topic that has no business in this TIGER SIGNING thread.

      • It really doesnt, the red sox didnt even make him an offer past the 2 year deal he turned down. Hes a former red sox player, thats it. “Now they have money to free up” They had all that money to free up right after the world series what the hell is the point in bringing it up now?!?! What can the sox do at catcher?? Has no relation to the tigers actually signing him, start up a new topic for that. Again he wasnt even offered a contract! Talk about the tigers and how this impacts them, I know you probably watch ESPN religiously with all sox all the time but get over yourself.

      • It really doesnt, the red sox didnt even make him an offer past the 2 year deal he turned down. Hes a former red sox player, thats it. “Now they have money to free up” They had all that money to free up right after the world series what the hell is the point in bringing it up now?!?! What can the sox do at catcher?? Has no relation to the tigers actually signing him, start up a new topic for that. Again he wasnt even offered a contract! Talk about the tigers and how this impacts them, I know you probably watch ESPN religiously with all sox all the time but get over yourself.

    • BoSoxSam 5 years ago

      Chill out man. It does affect Boston, as he happened to play there last year, and he was one of their offseason targets. It definitely affects their plans now, because they might be more willing to splurge on Beltre now, or maybe make a very serious run for Crawford. You guys are all talking about how this’ll help Detroit’s chances for Crawford, well, I think it boosts Bostons chances too, and they’re a serious contender for him as well. Now they may officially decide to let Salty get a shot at the position, resign Varitek or someone similar to be a injury replacement if necessary, and go all out for another FA or two. While this move may have made Detroit more attractive to some players, it has also given Boston more incentive to bid higher for some guys that Detroit is also interested in. So stop being so conceited; just because you despise Boston/NY doesn’t mean they’re not involved in rumors.

      • They never offered him a contract above the 2 years, I fail to see how he was a target. The pirates targeted him too, a bird told me. I doubt theo wanted to bring him back.

        You really just proved my point. Talking about detroit’s signings is fine, talking about how this will effect Boston’s signings is frankly off topic and ridiculous. Open up a thread and talk about Boston, this is the tigers signing a player and their successful offseason so far. Ortiz is better! Red Sox have money! Red sox need olivo! How is this relevant? Again they didnt offer him a contract(aside from the 2 years he turned down) All of these points could be addressed elsewhere.

        The only reason they are involved is because you guys find the need to throw them into every free agent signing story! I dont despise boston, I actually like them, but even I get annoyed when every single free agent story is “ZOMG BOSTON”

        • MaineSox 5 years ago

          Don’t be rediculous, of course it has to do with the Red Sox, not only was he their catcher last year but (despite you saying they had only offered 2) they had offered him a 4 year $42M contract so they obviously were serious about bringing him back.

          • So it has enough to do to hijack it and make comparisons about ortiz and their payroll room? Yea that makes sense. Really. Stay on topic. This is the tigers

          • MaineSox 5 years ago

            I agree that the Ortiz/Martinez comparisons are unneeded and illogical to post here, but there is legitimate reason to talk about the Red Sox and how this specific deal effects them because regardless of perception they were apparently trying to resign Victor and he was part of their plans so this has a pretty big effect to them.I also have to say the number of posts about the Sox compared to the number of posts about he Tigers is a little ridiculous but I accidentally had it on newest posts first so I hadn’t seen how many there were before I posted that.

          • MaineSox 5 years ago

            I agree that the Ortiz/Martinez comparisons are unneeded and illogical to post here, but there is legitimate reason to talk about the Red Sox and how this specific deal effects them because regardless of perception they were apparently trying to resign Victor and he was part of their plans so this has a pretty big effect to them.I also have to say the number of posts about the Sox compared to the number of posts about he Tigers is a little ridiculous but I accidentally had it on newest posts first so I hadn’t seen how many there were before I posted that.

        • flickadave 5 years ago

          OK, I will try and talk about the Tigers…. OMGZ the Tiger’s are still gonna get PWNED by the Twins, Bro. The Tigers best player can’t even win the MVP award.

          There, now can we go back to talking about Boston?

          • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

            Geez, I used to think Yankee fans were the worst…but now Im starting to see the light.

          • flickadave 5 years ago

            Yanks fans are still the worst (have you asked one whether Jeter deserved the GG lately?) but we are catching up!

          • LOL “the tigers best play can’t even win the MVP award” neither could 28 other teams best players! Really.

            I agree the twins are the team to beat in the central and we are playing catch up, but vmart is a great start to take em down. The tigers hung around last year despite having miggy and the mudhens playing.

            At least we dont have an overrated rf, injury prone “prospect”, old as hell left fielder, and a DH that cant even play in april or hit left handers! Hell you guys are about to give a 3rd basemen a long term deal when the guy has NEVER performed well during a contract, his best years are always his contract years. Have fun. Oh and you have dice k(cant hit the broad side of a barn),beckett(injury prone), lackey(overrated) and you are paying them all what a combined 40 mil?

          • airohpue13 5 years ago

            LOL CANT EVEN WIN THE MVP AWARD. The MVP award. Are you serious with this?

          • flickadave 5 years ago

            No, I’m not serious. I was just hoping to be able to talk about how this affects the Sox and figured I had to say something about the Tigers first or people would get mad at me.

          • airohpue13 5 years ago

            LOL CANT EVEN WIN THE MVP AWARD. The MVP award. Are you serious with this?

    • YODA777 5 years ago

      Maybe Boston can trade a very low level minor league, future hall of famer in a one for one deal with the Padres for Agon lol. I am sure the Padres would go for and might even include $10mm in cash ha ha. These Boston fans always think their minor leaguers are future MVP’s ha ha. Looks like another 3rd place finish for the Red Sox lol.

  35. donbrake 5 years ago

    This is EXCELLENT news! Now if we can persuade Crawford that he can win with us just as much as he could with the Angels, then we’re pretty solid. Can’t wait for Feb.

    • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

      Key to convincing Crawford that he can win with the Tigers as much as the Angels is to convince him before the Angels sign Adrian Beltre or Jayson Werth. Right now, they have a better offense on paper than LA and better pitching.

  36. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    great move by the Tigers. I am happy they kept it at 4 years. They had to overpay by about 6MM i’d say, but it’s Detroit. Overall it’s a great move in many ways. One, it takes the pressure off Avila who could become a very good hitter himself. Two, they now could potentially trade Carlos Guillen. They should give him and a low level prospect to the Angels for Scott Kazmir. The salaries match-up and I bet Rick Knapp could fix up Kazmir as “veteran Lefty”. He is still pretty young after all at 26. Guillen and Abreu could split time between RF and DH. It’s worth the risk for both teams because neither was going to be fully utilized on their respective teams.

    • I would much rather have kazmir then guillen, however I dont think the tigers will be able to move guillen unless they eat a lot of his salary. He is injured far too much and is terrible defensively. I mean yea he can play second/of but there are far better options.

      • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

        I would rather have Kazmir than Guillen as well but given Howie Kendrick’s injury prone and streakiness, as well as Abreu’s age, Guillen could prove more useful, if the Tigers agreed to throw in a decent prospect as well.

    • I would much rather have kazmir then guillen, however I dont think the tigers will be able to move guillen unless they eat a lot of his salary. He is injured far too much and is terrible defensively. I mean yea he can play second/of but there are far better options.

    • Who would then play 2nd?

      • Will Rhymes played serviceable second, and Scott Sizemore played better later on in the season. I would not count on guillen to be an everyday second basemen

      • airohpue13 5 years ago

        Guillen might not be the second basemen much anyway. Tigers are going to limit his work.

    • Who would then play 2nd?

  37. redsox927 5 years ago

    Sox will have to make a stop gap move at Catcher now. I hope they don’t overspend on AJ, Olivo or whomever else is out there tho.

    I think the Sox see promise in Lavarnway, Wagner, Expisito among others, but for one reason or another none of them are completely ready.

    I also doubt that Salty is the answer long term. Theo gets a crush on these guys and can’t say no to them. I hope he does well, but i also hope that when he struggles there’s a good option somewhere on the 40 man roster.

    • Dustroia15 5 years ago

      David Ross…make it happen Theo…bring David Ross back to the Red Sox

    • Dustroia15 5 years ago

      David Ross…make it happen Theo…bring David Ross back to the Red Sox

  38. VMart will be catching a majority of the time in Detroit. The Tigers would not give someone 4 year deal to be strictly a DH, especially when Dombrowski does not like DH’s and has not signed a “strictly DH type” in a long time. You can say what you want about his defense, but he is one of the best offensive catchers in the game. Avila cannot hit at all, and really isn’t all that good defensively. Now they need to sign a left handed hitter. Crawford is the obvious choice. If they don’t get Crawford, I don’t even want Werth. Never been a fan of him, and seems like a fluky hitter.

    • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

      Avila was actually better than Laird last year.

      Definitely better at controlling runners than Victor. Id say it will be a 60/30 split, with Alex getting most of the time behind the plate.

      • Next year I think we’ll definitely see VMart at catcher for the majority of games, but the organization has definitely not given up on Avila and provided he progresses, that split will tip more toward your 60/30 in the following years.

        • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

          Could certainly be the case. I guess it depends on the next big bat they sign..more of a fielder or a DH role. Also depends on if Maggs comes back and his role..and also what they want to do with Guillen.

        • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

          DOUBLE POST!

          I find it weird that DD didnt wait to announce Vmarts role until they had figured out the corner outfielders/potential other DH candidates…So I guess this means Adam Dunn is out of the question.

          link to nbcsports.msnbc.com

    • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

      Avila was actually better than Laird last year.

      Definitely better at controlling runners than Victor. Id say it will be a 60/30 split, with Alex getting most of the time behind the plate.

  39. grant77 5 years ago

    Those ‘switcher’ hitters are always so valuable. lol

  40. Pawsdeep 5 years ago

    I know everyone is convinced that Detroit is the worst city in the US, but let me tell you-it’s not. ESPECIALLY if you are a baseball fan(even better if you’re a ball player). The metro area is fantastic and so many of the suburbs are great places to live. Detroit is only awful if you are middle class and/or looking for work.

    And why on earth wouldn’t top free agents want to come to Detroit. You are obviously going to get paid and they are really trying to build a winning ball club and even when the team is losing, the city still packs into a brand new ballpark. Jim leyland is reapected by everyone in or around the game and on top of that, the tigers are as classy of an organization as there is in all of sports. Just look at the gallaragga blown call-do you think Jim Joyce would have been given that kind of respect if that happened to Ozzies white sox? Hell no.

    Any of you who would question why a ball player would want to come to Detroit obviously has never been there and dot see the bigger picture. Just ask Johnny Damon-he and Vmart both turned down Chicago for Detroit and isn’t that supposed to be a “high society” city?

    • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

      Not to mention, baseball players rarely live in their team’s cities, folks.

      -They have homes in their home state (or country) for the offseason.

      -The live in Florida or Arizona during the preseason

      -They only stay in the team’s city for ~ 81 games during the season..the rest of the time they are on the road.

      That comes out to roughly 1/3rd of the year being spent in Detroit. WTF…let it go.

    • squadwagon6 5 years ago

      maybe if they were the Michigan Tigers people would stop saying that lol

  41. Pawsdeep 5 years ago

    I know everyone is convinced that Detroit is the worst city in the US, but let me tell you-it’s not. ESPECIALLY if you are a baseball fan(even better if you’re a ball player). The metro area is fantastic and so many of the suburbs are great places to live. Detroit is only awful if you are middle class and/or looking for work.

    And why on earth wouldn’t top free agents want to come to Detroit. You are obviously going to get paid and they are really trying to build a winning ball club and even when the team is losing, the city still packs into a brand new ballpark. Jim leyland is reapected by everyone in or around the game and on top of that, the tigers are as classy of an organization as there is in all of sports. Just look at the gallaragga blown call-do you think Jim Joyce would have been given that kind of respect if that happened to Ozzies white sox? Hell no.

    Any of you who would question why a ball player would want to come to Detroit obviously has never been there and dot see the bigger picture. Just ask Johnny Damon-he and Vmart both turned down Chicago for Detroit and isn’t that supposed to be a “high society” city?

  42. This deal is good for Detroit if he’s their catcher for majority of the contract. Not so if he’s their DH. I understand why they had to do it. If he is going to DH then I think they are not pursuing Adam Dunn.

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      Probably no Dunn anyway. Even if he is their full-time catcher he would have at least one day off behind the plate a week, either sending Dunn to the outfield or one of Cabrera, VMart, and Dunn to the bench.

  43. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    Now that this is finally done, expect the Tigers to make a Strong push for Carl Crawford. Right now, remembering that Los Angeles has not signed Adrian Beltre YET, Detroit can boast a better offense to compete with than LA. MCab-VMart 3-4 looks better than a Kendry-Hunter with Morales coming off of injury and Hunter getting up there in Age, Detroit right now actually has a left side of the infield that can produce, and Detroit has the young, exciting, MLB ready players like A-Jax and Boesch in CF and RF, instead of aging players like Juan Rivera and Bobby Abreu.
    Their rotations match up pretty well, with Verlander-Scherzer on par with Weaver-Haren, and Porcello-Piniero both at their best matchup well. Detroit’s rotation is younger though. Detroit’s bullpen is much better tho.
    And thirdly, even with the VMart contract, Detroit can afford to offer as much, if not MORE than the Angels can/are willing to offer.

  44. firealyellon 5 years ago

    Fangraphs veredict: MILD OVERPAY FAIL

    • Pawsdeep 5 years ago

      I’d rather have them overpay talent than get a bargain on a chump

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      Cool. My Verdict: Tigers got one of the top 5 free agent bats

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      Cool. My Verdict: Tigers got one of the top 5 free agent bats

  45. slider32 5 years ago

    This is tough one for the Sox. They have lost out on the best catchers on the market, Martinez and Buck. This not only weakens their catching position, but they miss out on a good switch hitter and possible DH in the future.

  46. Tom 5 years ago

    While I like this signing, the Tigers need to sign a SP. Every year we see them go after bats. I want quality arms!

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      Like it or not that’s the tigers business plan. They draft arms and sign/trade for bats.

    • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

      better to overpay for a bat than an arm

  47. Tom 5 years ago

    While I like this signing, the Tigers need to sign a SP. Every year we see them go after bats. I want quality arms!

  48. Dave Dombrowski’s plan to saddle his successor with a bunch of over-the-hill bad contracts is coming together perfectly.

    • j96 5 years ago

      The jays could of used him play first n catch

    • snapcase8p 5 years ago

      Which by that you mean Guillen/Inge/Martinez are the only guys over 30 for postion players. And Guillen is gone after this year. Wow the Tigers are old. Putz

      • RestoreTheRoar 5 years ago

        And yet they have the youngest pitching rotation in the game…Old fielders and young slingers LOL

    • snapcase8p 5 years ago

      Which by that you mean Guillen/Inge/Martinez are the only guys over 30 for postion players. And Guillen is gone after this year. Wow the Tigers are old. Putz

  49. Bobk48224 5 years ago

    Hey Red sox/Patriot fans…Don’t forget the cranberry sauce when you visit Thursday!

  50. So V-Mart takes 4 years $50 million from the Tigers but turns down 3 years $48 million from the White Sox? Either it wasn’t about the money or he just couldn’t turn down that extra year at $2 million.

    • The Mythical One 5 years ago

      Because that report was false. The White Sox also offered 4 years at $48 million, or a three year deal worth “a little more annually.” No figure was ever given. $16 million is quite a bit more than “a little more” compared to $12.5 million per year.

  51. I love this signing for the Tigers. I prefered VMart over Dunn for a couple of reasons.
    1.) The flexibility he gives the Tigers. Expect him to catch around 3 games a week, when facing a lefty and day games after a night game. Can spell Cabrera at 1st once a week.
    2.) While i love Avila’s defense VMart is insurance if Avila can’t hit.
    3.) Allows the Tiger’s to bring back Ordonez and not having to play him in the field everyday. (Can DH against lefties and have Wells, a plus fielder, play right). As opposed to Dunn who would just strictly eat up a DH spot. Also VMart has proven he can hit in the AL unlike Dunn. Not many have successfully made move to AL (can only think of Abreu and maybe Drew, Scott and Branyan).

    I know Fangraphs didn’t like the move if Vmart isn’t fulltime catcher but even if they signed say a fulltime DH like Thome for 7 mill and say Olivo for 3 thats only two million less than what VMart got. I know they would come with less years but Martinez is much younger than most DH’s that are available an a better percentage that his numbers won’t drastically fall off. For every Thome and Guerro of last year there is the last seasons of Griffey, Sheffield, Giambi and Frank Thomas.

    I had the Tigers getting Vmart, Putz (gladly settle on Benoit), resigning Ordonez (2 yrs/15 mill) and trading for a starter (Shields, Garza, Wandy Rod caliber) and a lefty reliever. Think they make a run at Crawford, if they lose out try and resign Ordonez. Worst case scenario could you see the Mets trading Beltran for Carlos Guillen with Tigers kicking in 2 mill? Would save the Mets 5 mill or so and give them a 2nd baseman that they are in the market for. Any thoughts?

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      I’d say Cabrera among many others also made the switch between leagues very well.

      • I stand corrected. Not sure how i missed that one. Still can’t think of many others. Maybe im blinded by watching Edgar Renteria and Jacque Jones try it and fail miserably.

        • mlbscout6 5 years ago

          If you look at his peripherals, Jaque Jones was never really a good hitter, even in the NL. And for Renteria I think it was more of him just getting old and not being able to stay healthy. I think the whole AL/NL thing is overblown.

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      I’d say Cabrera among many others also made the switch between leagues very well.

    • I think we might still go after Putz if he’s willing to sign cheap to play at home. He keeps saying he wants to play in Detroit and I could see a 2 year $10 million deal. I think Ordonez is gone and if we don’t get Werth or Crawford (who I think we will go after and match BoSox/Angels contracts) I could see us trading for Beltran.

    • rbeezy 5 years ago

      it’s ok, fangraphs isn’t realistic when determining a players worth and acutally signing a free agent. Dave Cameron is still waiting for Kila Kahuie & Brandon Wood to bust out.

      • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

        your right, because fangraphs are a bunch of biased FANS, not experts

  52. Hahahaha oh god.

  53. verlander 5 years ago

    I love that people are all aghast that, once again, a free agent passed up a chance to play in Chicago for Detroit, OMG!!!!

    1. The players don’t live in downtown Detroit. Most of them live in the suburbs like Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Novi, etc.
    2. Martinez and Jhonny Peralta were good friends when they were in Cleveland.
    3. Maybe he wanted that fourth year way more than he wanted the extra $3.5 mil from Chicago.

  54. mrmet128 5 years ago

    it might of been a good idea to front load this, so then you don’t have a 36 year old catcher making 12.5m in 2014

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      How do you know how it’s structured?

      • mrmet128 5 years ago

        i don’t, and i didn’t say i did, i said it would be a good idea to front load this.

    • airohpue13 5 years ago

      How do you know how it’s structured?

    • djfanon 5 years ago

      You’re paying him the exact same amount of money, what does it matter? If anything, frontloading wastes money because you have to pay it out earlier, so you’re losing flexibility as well as money from interest.

      • mrmet128 5 years ago

        you lose payroll flexibility now, but gain flexibility at the end of the contract. if i’m Dave Dombrowski i wouldn’t want a 36 year old catcher making 12.5 mil.

  55. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    Perhaps if the Yankees can lure Crawford to NY, the Tigers can try and get Granderson back.

    • FunkyTime 5 years ago

      No thanks … we have a much better and cheaper center fielder now, and his bat isn’t worth his salary in the corners.

      • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

        It would be good to have him back in Detroit. 2 years and 18MM is what we would wind up paying Magglio and Granderson would produce as much and provide much better D.

        • woadude 5 years ago

          They arent going to pay that much money to either of those two, if Magglio wants to come back, it will be for much less than he made in Detroit.

        • airohpue13 5 years ago

          Can’t hit lefties to save his life.

      • woadude 5 years ago

        You should of mocked him and said ok, how about Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson lol

    • baseballdude 5 years ago

      no thanks i would rather have austin jackson.

    • baseballdude 5 years ago

      no thanks i would rather have austin jackson.

    • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

      Crawford is not going to the Yankees, the outfield is set with Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher

  56. woadude 5 years ago

    Way late but holy cow, i cant believe he turned down the Sox offer, the WHITE Sox that is, he could of made his money in 3 years and resigned again and made more money, plus the White Sox are a good team to go to after Boston, just ask Carlton Fisk.

  57. frede1 5 years ago

    GO,GO,GO Illitch,your on the right track. But, you still need more,another big bat, and the need to bolster the bullpin or starting rotation. Just remember, you:ll be faceing the twins,Phillies or cardinels. I want polanco back.

  58. frede1 5 years ago

    GO,GO,GO Illitch,your on the right track. But, you still need more,another big bat, and the need to bolster the bullpin or starting rotation. Just remember, you:ll be faceing the twins,Phillies or cardinels. I want polanco back.

  59. Gurvir Nijjar 5 years ago

    red sox will suck next year

  60. airohpue13 5 years ago

    I heard a rumor that Leyland is going to be playing second and batting second next year.

    • baseballdude 5 years ago

      Jims son?? Didnt they draft his son last year?? I think he needs more time in the minners

    • baseballdude 5 years ago

      Jims son?? Didnt they draft his son last year?? I think he needs more time in the minners

  61. baseballdude 5 years ago

    I like this signing . maybe get werth and have you have enough money get orlando hudson.

  62. jphenix2002 5 years ago

    Great move for Detroit!

  63. jphenix2002 5 years ago

    Great move for Detroit!

  64. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    Great MOVE!

    • Good idea, I honestly never thought of Jones. What’s his range though? It probably can’t be worse than Maggs and I know he has a good arm.

      The problem now is that this team has a bunch of low BA guys (Inge, Rayburn, Peralta, Guillen, Sizemore, and Boesch) and Jones fits into that mold. Detroit needs guys who can get on base and score runs.

      That’s why Werth and Crawford do make tons of sense.

      • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

        Jones has very good range still. I went to a few White Sox games this year and Ozzie played Jones in CF for a few and Jones made it look easy. He still has very good range from what I saw and he had lost a TON of weight since leaving the Dodgers. I don’t know what condition he’s in right now, but if he’s in the same condition as he was with the White Sox, I’d say he’s worth a gamble. As for Crawford and Werth, I too would love for the Tigers to get either of those guys. But it’s highly unlikely we get either and each have their downsides.
        At 31, I don’t know how many more 20-30 Sb seasons we are going to see out of Werth, he isn’t really that high of an avg hitter though he hit for a good avg this season, he strikes out way to much for the amount of money he’s asking for (Matt Holliday $), and I don’t know if he can hit for a ton of power outside of the NL and outside of Citizen’s Bank.
        Crawford, on the other hand at age 28, should have at least 4 maybe more 45-50 SB seasons left in him in a 8 year contract, assuming he stays healthy. Then he could steal 20-30 those last couple seasons (similar to Torii Hunter/Bobby Abreu. He should still be a pretty good defender as well at that age, again, discounting injury.
        But one thing worth mentioning is that he has NEVER hit more than 20 homeruns in a season, his OBP has only once been higher than .355, and to get him to come to Detroit instead of Boston/LA will require Detroit to Massively overpay.

  65. Yankees579 5 years ago

    Damn tigers look dangerous.. Austin Jackson, Damon, Cabrera, victor. That’s VERY comparable to our first 4.. Hmm

    • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

      I don’t know if you’re being a sarcastic yankee fan but I am going to argue with or against your point. First off, Damon is a free agent and the Tigers likely won’t resign him. Secondly, I legitimately would prefer A-Jax-MCab-VMart over Gardner(i consider him a better leadoff hitter than Jeter at this point)-Tex-ARod at this stage in their careers with ARod on the Decline and not hitting for Avg, and MCab and A-Jax both better than or equal to Tex and Gardner respectively. I also think that Peralta and Jeter matchup pretty well with production at this point in Jeter’s career and Swisher and Inge could matchup pretty evenly if Inge stays healthy. What Detroit still lacks are players that can match the contributions of Cano, Posada, Granderson, and thats a big hole to fill, but Detroit has slightly better pitching than the Yanks without Cliff Lee.

      • Yankees579 5 years ago

        Nah dude I was being serious..

        And I didn’t know Damon was a FA, my fault. But if you guys get decent production and good pitching you guys may be a threat..

    • The_Silver_Stacker 5 years ago

      Damon left the Tigers

  66. $5553954 5 years ago

    I’ve read that the Royals are looking to trade Zack Greinke. I would give Jacob Turner, Porcello and Galarraga for that boy. Look at his stats the last few years and think of him pitching beside Verlander and Sherzer. If DD could swing this deal, the Tigers would only need another reliever, Bondo maybe and sign a good defensive outfielder. Me? I like it!

    • Sniderlover 5 years ago

      Porcello + Turner + Galarraga is overpayment.

      • $5553954 5 years ago

        What would you say about Porcello , Galarraga and Raburn?

        • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

          In a trade for Grienke, Galarraga and Raburn have 0 value.

    • InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

      2 seasons of Grienke is nowhere near worth Turner and Porcello. A rotation in a few years of Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Turner, and maybe Andy Oliver has the potential to be incredible.

      • $5553954 5 years ago

        OK, so you wouldn’t try to get Greinke at all?

      • $5553954 5 years ago

        You say they have potential. Greinke is a Proven commodity.

  67. So far, so good for the Tigers.
    Now add a starting pitcher, a corner outfielder to hit third, and a reliever to replace Coke in the pen.

    Is this a record for the most comments following a post? Pretty impressive.

    • frede1 5 years ago

      do you think the tigers could land Joey Votto

      • frede1 5 years ago

        Joeys not up for grabs,sorry. The tiger farms are full of good tripleAAA dudes, a trade is very possible. Verlander,Greinke,sheerzer an Porcello. Fantastic.

  68. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    I still think the Tigers should make a strong run at Adam Dunn. For the 4-5 year deal that he would get, he would be 35 by the time the contract ran out, and Raw Power can last that long easily. They should still try and sign him and trade for a great defensive, decent OBP OF like Josh Willingham, Fukudome, or even Carlos Beltran or Nick Markakis. They can probably get the Mets or Cubs to take Guillen off their hands considering he makes less $ than both Beltran or Fuk next season and is a free agent.

  69. Guest 5 years ago

    And this is where I would love to hear comments from Epstein. There is a very good chance Epstein overestimated the market for Martinez.

  70. PJaysW 5 years ago

    haha. what a crock.

  71. But do you know that for sure? Glad you can see the future. Why didn’t you break the news about Martinez sooner?

  72. moonraker45 5 years ago

    “Red Sox will get a player from it who should have been in the top five because of signing issues”

    Considering the pirates, nationals and royals have ALL been consistently spending big money on the draft.. I very very much doubt it… I can guarantee you will get a top 20 player though.

  73. bustersposey 5 years ago

    know your red sox drafting history…. #19 will be a guy who will sign for at or near slot…

  74. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    Or he believed VMart will be a full time first baseman and DH in 2 years like many other people…

  75. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    You mean underestimated?

  76. PJaysW 5 years ago

    yes, and your baseless prediction which amounts to nothing but conjecture is up for post of the year.

  77. Guest 5 years ago

    I’m not going to disagree with you, but it’s not like there are better options out there for the Sox and $12.5mm per year is not a stretch for any team. The Tigers made a good deal. I mean the Sox picked up Ortiz’s option for the same amount and he can’t do anything but hit right handed hitting. He can’t even play a position.

  78. His offense might be mediocre as a first baseman, but it would be among the league leaders at DH. I know the Sox have Ortiz but they have to pray this year his early struggles don’t stick with him the whole year.

  79. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    Blackcourt, thats a bit of a stretch to say that Martinez has mediocre offense, even as a DH or 1b. A consistent .300 switch hitter with 20-25 homers per year who is one of the best contact hitters in the game (look at his strikeout totals) is much better than “mediocre”, even at 1b or DH. Just because the Red Sox didn’t resign him doesn’t mean you have to go bashing VMart, especially not giving him his proper due.
    If martinez were only a full-time DH, he would be arguably the best, depending on if Ortiz, Vlad, and Thome repeat their seasons last year, and they are all older than him. If he were only a 1b, he would be a top 10 option.
    Top 1b(not in any order)
    Pujols
    Votto
    Konerko
    MCab
    A-Gonz
    Tex
    Youk
    Fielder
    Howard
    maybe Huff(if he repeats next year). Overall career numbers suggest VMart’s the better player.

  80. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Of course he was in their plans. Didn’t he already offer him a 3/$36 or 4/$42 offer? If anything they felt the market was limited and a line they simply didn’t want to cross, more in terms of years probably.

  81. Guest 5 years ago

    Again using the comparison of Ortiz who can’t really do shite, a full time first baseman or SWITCH hitting DH, for the same amount of money $12.5mm who would you rather have 2 years from now. Again, this is the part where I scratch my head at one of the moves the Red Sox make, passing on V-Mart, but picking up Ortiz’s option. The dollars are the same, so you have to admit, this doesn’t make sense.

  82. Guest 5 years ago

    They’re gonna need a bucket a balls to fool the umps with those two behind the plate next season…

  83. Yeah, who wants a power-hitting catcher when you have a busted prospect and a veteran getting contracts on reputation alone already on the roster?

  84. shortking98 5 years ago

    Except one is a 4 year commitment and the other is for 1 year, not exactly the same thing…

  85. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    Failing to see how a line of .270/.370/.529 with 32 HRs and 102 RBIs isn’t really doing “shite.”

    Look, I could go ahead and make an argument that it seems very likely this is Ortiz’s walk year with the Sox, they’re likely looking ahead to the 2011 offseason to pick up Fielder or Gonzalez, will likely try to find a long term solution to third base this offseason, and thus in 2 years when VMart would need to move more permanently to first base and DH there wouldn’t be any room. But you’ll just shake your head, say something that basically bashes Theo, the Red Sox, and probably me despite the fact that all I’m saying is I think in the long run a longer VMart contract would probably not work out for the Red Sox. Which to me makes sense.

  86. Piccamo 5 years ago

    Ortiz is a better batter than Martinez. Martinez is merely alright as a DH, while Ortiz is very good as one. There’s also the matter of having flexibility after next year when Fielder and A-Gon become available that they wouldn’t have with Martinez signed for 4 years. I can’t fault any team for not topping the Tigers’ offer.

  87. ilikebaseball 5 years ago

    I assume the Sox want better defense from the catcher position and want to keep 1B open for a bigger target (Gonzalez, perhaps?). Maybe they think $12M+ is too much for a normal DH, and are giving it to Papi because of his outstanding contributions to the organization, his relationship with John Henry, and because it only guarantees him for one year without offending him. Also, $12.5M guaranteed isn’t close to $50M guaranteed. All that said, Theo better have something up his sleeve.

  88. stl_cards16 5 years ago

    Perhaps maybe the better question would be….What would you rather have next offseason, Firstbase and DH held up by Vmart making 12.5mil, or have 12MM free to bid on a long term solution at first base? Potential free agent first baseman are Fielder, A. Gonzalez, and Pujols…….maybe not a bad choice by Theo?

  89. Guest 5 years ago

    It’s called options my friend and the Sox just took another off the table, but choose to execute an option on a player that is past prime. Yes there is a difference in years, but I think most of you get my point. The better proposition would have been to give V-mart the 4 years if it was only going to cost $12mm per. The Sox have no definitive first baseman, or technically a third baseman. Youk while great, is the better option at third.

  90. I’m talking about Mike Napoli. Are you?

  91. InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

    Martinez is not merely “alright” as a DH. I don’t know what team you root for (probably the Yankees) but you are pretty spoiled by that team if a .300 avg, 20+ home runs, and 100 RBI is just alright.

  92. Piccamo 5 years ago

    If I were looking at it from a point of view where I want to reach the majors the fastest, I would want to play for the Pirates. Then I could sign with whichever team I wanted quicker. There are a lot of players who fall to other rounds that are “first round talents”, but a lot of teams are spending big these days.

  93. moonraker45 5 years ago

    Give me 1 example where the Sox drafted a top 5 talent, outside of the top 15 picks..

    I beg of you to find me one example.. No teams let a harper, or taillon or machado slip outside of the top 5 because of money, teams have been ponying up the dough since the Matt Bush incident.

    Your opinion is wrong. just admit it

  94. airohpue13 5 years ago

    That’s true. Tigers have been guilty of overpaying from lower positions to get guys with signability concerns too.

  95. Pirates are one of the top 3 spending teams in the past three drafts. As to your point about the Red Sox getting top talent because of signing concerns, it is valid but not to the point of getting top 5 talent consistently. A guy like Casey Kelly, was considered a 1st round talent, maybe even top 20, but the problem was he wanted top 5 money. He fell because his bonus demands didn’t match up with his talent (also they were buying him out of a football commitment). He is a great prospect, but even if there was a redraft of 2008 he might not make the top 10.

  96. You said you wouldn’t trade a bucket of balls in exchange for Napoli. My comment about the power-hitting catcher, and in response to your comment about Mike Napoli, refers to Mike Napoli.

    I don’t see how two people could mess that up when I’m clearly replying to you.

  97. Piccamo 5 years ago

    Jason Bay is (was maybe?) a pretty good player. McCuthchen is shaping up to be a star. Tabata looks pretty good. Alvarez should be at least a regular, probably pretty good. They had a long time with a front office that didn’t really know what rebuilding meant and they have a long way to go before being relevant again, but they have a GM committed to actually building correctly. It’s really a similar situation to my Orioles.

  98. moonraker45 5 years ago

    I love this unearned champion complex that certain red sox fans (not all, some, ignorant,arrogant like you) have developed.. Why do you feel the need to justify yourself and boston by putting other teams and fans down?Especially considering in the last 50 years the Pirates have won the world series 3 times to the red sox 2, you really shouldn’t be playing the superiority card.

  99. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    First step of getting help is admitting you have a problem.

  100. moonraker45 5 years ago

    getting a top 5 talent at 19th overall is a bit of a stretch though. . I understand getting 1st round talent in the supplemental round or 2nd round.. but bona fide top 5 talent never falls that far.

  101. melonis_rex 5 years ago

    Clay Buchholz. Supplemental 1st round pick. Not top 5 draft talent at the time, but definitely was a top 5-10 prospect in MLB at one time.

  102. bustersposey 5 years ago

    craig han… oh, nevermind

  103. bustersposey 5 years ago

    craig han… oh, nevermind

  104. oohyeah 5 years ago

    Tabata came from the yankees farm system, and who knows how old he really is.

  105. Ben_Cherington 5 years ago

    ahh you beat me to it!! Good call.

  106. moonraker45 5 years ago

    He was not rated a top 5 talent that draft sorry, not even top 10. He turned out extremely well for the 42nd pick no doubt but he was never rated ahead of Upton, Gordon, Zimmerman, Braun, Romero, Tulo, Pelfrey, McCutchen, Bruce, Ellsbury, Rasmus, etc for better or for worse.

  107. “Not top 5 draft talent at the time”

    Well, you could have stopped right there, since you didn’t prove moonraker’s point.

  108. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    How wasn’t he top 5 talent at the time? Theo knew it.

  109. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    He melonis long time.I think the guy meant a consensus top 5 draft talent at the time of the draft as opposed to somone who was a top 5 prospect. Big difference. Buchholz wasn’t considered to be a top 5 pick by the “experts” prior to the draft. That what makes being the Sox or the Yanks more difficult because they will almost never have a shot at the “no brainers” unless they are damaged goods.

  110. If you’re using batting average to justify a player’s value, I can tell this conversation is going nowhere. Use things like OBP, SLG, and OPS and we can continue this conversation.

    And yes, his defense isn’t the best in the world, but neither was V-Mart’s, and their career OPS is actually very similar.

  111. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    And Juan Pierre is a career .300 hitter but I still wouldn’t want to see him in a Red Sox uniform. Napoli may have hit .238 last year but he hit 26 HRs. He could do a lot of good in Fenway attacking the Monster batting in the #6 or #7 hole in the lineup.

  112. alxn 5 years ago

    And he would still be a massive upgrade for the Sox at catcher. Shows you how bad their current group is.

  113. LOL batting average. Way to lose your own argument/

  114. Piccamo 5 years ago

    My mistake. I don’t follow the Pirates as closely as I could and those were names off the top of my head. Thanks.

  115. moonraker45 5 years ago

    You are acting superior. And I asked you to answer my question of naming a player that was a top 5 talent that the red sox got outside the top 15 and you haven’t been able to prove your point..

    and i picked 50 years because its a normal time to be alive.. I dont know too many people 100 years old, and I don’t know many die hards who are 10. So someone who is 60 years old would have seen more pirates World series wins, then red sox world series wins..

    I’m merely just bringing up a point that you can’t justify any of your points or opinions without unfairly bringing up other organizations.

  116. Itsmorethanagame 5 years ago

    That is not true at all. Anthony Renaudo was a top 5 talent that the Red Sox drafted late in this last draft due to bonus demands and injury history. Rick Porcello was a top 5 talent in the 08 draft that fell due to bonus demands. Zach Lee was a top 5 talent that was taken 28th because everyone thought he was going to play CFB. Now whether that happens if the Sox were to get Detroit’s #1 pick is another issue…

  117. moonraker45 5 years ago

    using batting average to judge a catcher? Seriously???

  118. Maybe you don’t know this, but batting average is part of his OBP and SLG. Yes his BA dropped (and we can blame that on luck and BABIP), which caused his OBP and SLG to drop as well. However, his IsoOBP and IsoSLG stayed the same from previous years, meaning he’s walking the same amount and hitting for the same amount of power, he just didn’t have the singles filling out his numbers like in years past.

    My prediction for 2011 Mike Napoli: .260/.360/.480 – .840 24HR

  119. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    Yeah it’s so that teams can’t avoid the luxury tax by tacking a 5 year/100mm contract at 4mm, 6mm, 30mm, 30mm, 30mm because they have another big name, big money player who will be leaving after the first 2 years of said players contract. If they didn’t do it by AAV, GM’s would be manipulating their payroll all day.

  120. MB923 5 years ago

    Thank you blackcourt.

  121. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    It would be incredibly beneficial for teams like the Yankees, Mets, Sox, and Cubs. It would be horrendous for teams who are getting portions of the revenue sharing like the A’s. They’d be getting ripped out of money. It’s meant to try to promote a level playing field throughout the league.

  122. moonraker45 5 years ago

    ranaudo was a top 5 BEFORE the 2010 season began, his stock fell with injuries and poor performance. .. and even though he got a nice 2.5 signing bonus, no one in the TOP 5 drafted signed for less….

    You keep talking, I’ll keep proving you wrong.

  123. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    He fell due to injuries not signability (i.e money, commitment to college).

  124. johnsilver 5 years ago

    Hard to show facts with a block SWP. Boston did not want another defensive liability behind the plate that simply.. Can’t throw.. Varitek was at least well respected by the staff and was excellent at blocking balls etc.. While Martinez was a gamer and gave his best, just about everyone else it seems except one particular person now seems to think that Vmart all of a sudden is a catcher, amazing how that person thinks he is a good catcher today huh?

    Boston will find a 1 season catcher, waiting for 1 of the M-L youngsters to get ready, or Saltamachia to get ready and they will be fine, maybe even Varitek back next year as his mentor which is not the end of the world.

    Somebody needs to find a Cliff Lee topic to go troll around on rather than changing theiropinion on ex Red Sox players the minute they sign elsewhere and some Red Sox fans seem to fall into his trap by humoring him.

  125. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Let me first state this: I don’t think the conversation was ever Ortiz or Vic. Obviously Vic was going to be brought in to C for 2011 and most likely 2012. ANytime after that and they probably saw him as a 1B or DH and felt that maybe $12 mil was a worthy premium to pay for him to C but not to be anything other than that.

    However, there’s an honest discussion that can be made that it would’ve been a better choice, assuming that other moves would be made to also improve the offense @ 3B (Beltre) or w/ a 1B, to have gone 4 years @ $12 mil for Vic instead of bringing back Ortiz. While Ortiz had a good bounce back year his splits are alarming and should give Thei cause for concern (even if it is just for 2011).

    2009-Ortiz vs RH: .250/.346 w/ 22 hrs in 369 AB vs LH: .212/.298 w/6 hrs in 165 AB

    2010-Ortiz vs RH: .297/.416 w/ 30 hrs in 333 AV vs LH: 222/.275 w/ 2 hrs in 185 AB

    compared to Vic

    2009-Vic vs RH: .316/.387 w/ 13 hrs in 408 AB vs LH: .273/.365 w/ 10 hrs in 176 AB

    2010-Vic vs RH: .257/.315 w/ 8 hrs in 338 AB vs LH: .400/.431 w/ 12 hrs in 155 AB

    They could’ve brought back Ortiz for 2011 and VIc on a 4 year deal and over the life of that 4 year deal have him C next year and/or 2012 and also play him at 1B or DH in replace of Ortiz. Vmart is versatile enough that @ .300/.360 w/20-25 hr potential he could’ve played at a multiple of positions at a cost ($12 mil per) that wasn’t prohibitive to the Sox.

    Now the Sox have a lot more offensive questions to answer with Vmart gone, Beltre being a Boras client w/ plenty of suiters and AGonz being an expensive acquisition.

    PS- Can we have an honest discussion about this w/o the “Well what about Arod and Jeter….hahaha”. Not bashing anyone, just wanting to take part in a baseball discussion.

  126. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    Did you read my name? It says “soxfan”. Not “fan-of-other-team”. I’m not saying the season is starting tomorrow. I’m saying we’re replacing our middle of the order switch hitting catcher who hit .302 and belted 20 bombs while missing 4 weeks with an unproven guy who will hit 8th and hit .250 with maybe 8 HR.

  127. moonraker45 5 years ago

    Westmoreland was considered to be better then Smoak, Wallace, Beckham, Alonso, Matusz, Alvarez, Casey Kelly??? wow! I never knew… funny, how he was rated top 5 yet fell to 172nd overall.. .

    also funny to me how you think he was a top 5 talent before the draft but the red sox took 5 or 6 different players before him.

  128. moonraker45 5 years ago

    Ranaudo was top 5 before his horrific 2010 season, injuries and poor performance lead to him falling. if he agreed to a slot deal he wouldn’t have cracked the top 10.. and Porcello and Lee were top 8-15 talents not top 5

  129. moonraker45 5 years ago

    your knowledge of baseball is equivalent to Chevy Chase’s knowledge of acting.

  130. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    I really hope Theo makes a strong push for David Ross. I don’t know if there is any chance the Braves would give up their backup catcher though.

  131. soxfan0928 5 years ago

    Yeah we definitely had problems throwing out runners, but Salty hasn’t proven to be significantly better than Vic in that aspect, and even if he is, is it worth .050 in batting average, 10-15 bombs a year, and about 40 RBI’s of offensive production that you’re losing?

  132. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    What? I just don’t think VMart is a long run catcher… I liked him, defended him fiercely all last year, and wasn’t bad mouthing the guy.

  133. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    You kind of just proved the point….
    1 – He was a top 5 BEFORE the 2010 season…he got injured, pitched like he was injured.

    2 – He got 2.5M, when the 4th pick got 2.7M, 5th got 2.6M and the slot for 5th is 2.5M.

    3 – He pitched lights out in the Cape League to prove that he was free from injury. If he wasn’t 100% confident in his ability to be a top tier pitching prospect, he would have never played in that league before signing a deal.

  134. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    What did he do after the draft? Do you even know? Go look it up online, the guy was obviously hurt.

    …and seriously you are comparing the 5th spot to 8th spot? Not really a huge difference. He was still taken about 20 picks after this.

  135. Ferrariman 5 years ago

    porcello was certainly a top 10 talent, if not top 5.

  136. moonraker45 5 years ago

    No i didnt just prove the point, he was top 5 BEFORE his 2010 season, meaning BEFORE the draft… IF Ranaudo has said he was willing to sign the correct slot deal he WOULDNT have been picked top 5, prob not even top 10..

    It was an extremely good pick up by the red sox, one that only a team willing to take overslot picks in later rounds would make, BUT he was not a top 5 talent that draft and thats my point.

  137. moonraker45 5 years ago

    Your point is that the red sox are going to get top 5 talent in the draft at the 19th overall pick.. Westmoreland, Kelly and Ranaudo were not top 5 talents in their respective draft years, regardless of demands..

    Funny how I keep proving you wrong, but you keep saying I’m having a temper tantrum just because I’m winning the argument. lol pathetic

  138. InLeylandWeTrust 5 years ago

    Ok, then last season he had an OPS .002 pts below Mark Texiera. Better?

  139. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I agree that RBI aren’t a great stat to use, however, they are acceptable in an apples to apples comparison of 3/4/5 hitters on the same team. A lack of RBI may not tell the story but 100 of them pretty much do. Again, I wouldn’t compare a 100 RBI guy on the Red Sox with say, Adrian Gonzalez, but comparing Vick to Ortiz is an honest discussion and all stats are somewhat relevant.

  140. moonraker45 5 years ago

    oh please.. So why didn’t he take Buccholz before Ellsbury if he was that sure he was top 5 talent. lol ridiculous.

  141. moonraker45 5 years ago

    oh please.. So why didn’t he take Buccholz before Ellsbury if he was that sure he was top 5 talent. lol ridiculous.

  142. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    I think there should be a three way trade…Napoli to the Braves, Ross to the Red Sox…deal?

  143. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    I won’t say your argument is necessarily incorrect, but all they’re asking you to do is back it up. Here, I’ll do it for you:

    A quick check on B-R shows that he is essentially right.

    Napoli’s BA has been the most egregious drop, but aside from a career high in home runs (Something that is more often isolated than not), his numbers have dropped across the board. In the most plate appearances in a single season of his career, Napoli posted career lows in on base percentage and OPS while posting a career high in strikeouts and GDP. Across the board, his offensive stats have been decreasing steadily and that’d be cause for concern if he was considered an above average defensive catcher, which he is not.

    Napoli’s draw is as an offensive catcher, and his offensive numbers (Outside of isolated power) HAVE been dwindling, which is bad news. His OPS was actually less than twenty points over Jason Varitek’s. He’ll also be hitting thirty next year and likely isn’t going to get any better, especially if the one were to throw him behind the plate full time (And he’s NEVER caught more than 100 games in a season).

    Honestly speaking, I would rather give the 26 year old Saltalamacchia a shot than give up prospects for a poor defensive catcher whose offensive numbers are showing steady decline. I won’t pretend it’s ideal, but Napoli is most definitely not the answer. There’s a reason he may be non-tendered.

  144. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    I won’t say your argument is necessarily incorrect, but all they’re asking you to do is back it up. Here, I’ll do it for you:

    A quick check on B-R shows that he is essentially right.

    Napoli’s BA has been the most egregious drop, but aside from a career high in home runs (Something that is more often isolated than not), his numbers have dropped across the board. In the most plate appearances in a single season of his career, Napoli posted career lows in on base percentage and OPS while posting a career high in strikeouts and GDP. Across the board, his offensive stats have been decreasing steadily and that’d be cause for concern if he was considered an above average defensive catcher, which he is not.

    Napoli’s draw is as an offensive catcher, and his offensive numbers (Outside of isolated power) HAVE been dwindling, which is bad news. His OPS was actually less than twenty points over Jason Varitek’s. He’ll also be hitting thirty next year and likely isn’t going to get any better, especially if the one were to throw him behind the plate full time (And he’s NEVER caught more than 100 games in a season).

    Honestly speaking, I would rather give the 26 year old Saltalamacchia a shot than give up prospects for a poor defensive catcher whose offensive numbers are showing steady decline. I won’t pretend it’s ideal, but Napoli is most definitely not the answer. There’s a reason he may be non-tendered.

  145. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    Well you are always going to be right then. Only 5 guys can be considered top 5…the 5 drafted in the first five spots. If you are talking about top 5 talent then you have to factor in injury concerns and contract demands. He wouldn’t have been drafted in the top 5 if paid slot money because the injury concerns were still there. If he was never injured last year, and pitched like he did the previous season….where would he have been drafted?

  146. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    There was a sense of sarcasm since even the number 1 prospect is not a sure thing.

    The point is, he is now a front of the rotation starter, one of the most talented players from that draft, I don’t care if he was drafted in the top 5 or in the 50th round.

  147. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    To be fair, you’ve got a pretty bad comparrison. Teixeira had a pretty subpar year by first baseman standards. He failed to crack the top ten in OPS out of 24 qualifiers at the position, barely cracking the fiftieth percentile. He actually finished the year with a lower WAR than Kevin Youkilis, who missed a third of the year.

  148. moonraker45 5 years ago

    If he was never injured and didn’t have a poor season he probably would have atleast went top 7.. but you can’t ignore injuries an poor performance with a top draft pick.. the red sox were able to take that chance because they took him later on… If the Sox picked 4th in the draft would they have taken him? chances are no.

  149. moonraker45 5 years ago

    I 100 % agree, but this argument started when blackcourt suggested that the red sox would get a top 5 player at the 19th pick, that was the basis..

  150. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    where would strasburg go if the draft was today?

  151. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    The point is that Ranaudo dropped in the draft because of injury concerns, not signability concerns. He’s clearly looking for an example of an occasion where the Sox actually signed a top five pick later because of their salary demands. Ranaudo is a poor example.

  152. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    The point is that Ranaudo dropped in the draft because of injury concerns, not signability concerns. He’s clearly looking for an example of an occasion where the Sox actually signed a top five pick later because of their salary demands. Ranaudo is a poor example.

  153. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    yeah you are both wrong, sox will got top 5 talent in the supplementals

  154. johnsilver 5 years ago

    Wasn’t you SWP. The person you were replying to. While Vmart does try to play as strong a defensive game as he can though.. I just don’t see him as a legit catcher even in 2 years and the Tigers will probably find that out. he goes all out and gives it everything he has, but a fair ranged defensive 1b that does not have tremendous power is not IMO worth 13M per season over 4 years and that is pretty much what the tigers are paying for over the last 3 years of this contract.

  155. We don’t need Mike Napoli. We have starters at 1B and C, and David Ross’ price is a steal for the amount of production he gives us.

  156. We don’t need Mike Napoli. We have starters at 1B and C, and David Ross’ price is a steal for the amount of production he gives us.

  157. start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    Sorry, I’m a little tired, didn’t read close enough.

  158. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    Occasionally? When was the last time the dude wrote something that didn’t involve a dig at the Red Sox?

  159. moonraker45 5 years ago

    strasburg got hurt after he was drafted,not before.. You honestly think if he went down with tj surgery before the 2010 draft that he would have been taken first overall?

  160. moonraker45 5 years ago

    no.

  161. moonraker45 5 years ago

    no.

  162. Dustroia15 5 years ago

    That’s my point! NO! Strasburg was drafted #1, he got TJ surgery (injury), draft today he wouldn’t be #1, if Strasburgs health returns, he is #1 talent.

    Both injury and dollars make an impact on draft position…doesn’t change the talent that is there, just changes the risk you are willing to take.

  163. dskirsa 5 years ago

    Really? He’s 25, on his 3rd team in 4 years and hit 233/290/371 in a partial 2009 with the Rangers. He has the potential to be every bit as good as Martinez? Let’s see the guy make it through a full season in the big leagues before saying he might be an all star.

    Also, if you’re looking for someone that can throw out runners and call games, Gerald Laird is available. He worked out great for the Tigers…

  164. dskirsa 5 years ago

    The problem is that you’re eager to engage in a pissing contest every chance you get.
    Your comments probably make up 20% of this thread and half of them were about Sox getting top 5 talent with a #19 pick.

  165. shortking98 5 years ago

    Morneau doesn’t make your top 10?

  166. bjsguess 5 years ago

    You can probably add in the following guys as being as good or better than Martinez:

    K Morales (306/355/569 – 09 season)
    D Barton (273/393/405) ++ Glove according to UZR (12.1)
    Dunn (260/356/536)
    Butler (318/388/469)

    In years 1 and 2 V-Mart is a pretty safe bet to be a top 15 1st baseman. Years 3 and 4 … probably not so much.

    I like V-Mart but his value is as a catcher. Just like Napoli with the Angels, once you move him out from behind the plate his value takes a huge nosedive.

  167. slider32 5 years ago

    Big Papi is getting old and the Sox just lost a hitter with 20hrs and 100rbis. They won’t be able to replace that.

  168. ToledoFan 5 years ago

    The Sox are more than welcome to pick up Gerald Laird now. The Tigers are done with him for good.

  169. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    good call about morneau, he would make it as well. forgot about him because of the injury last season. he’d be up there. So I guess VMart is a top 11 1b but considering one of the top 10 is already on the Tigers (MCab), I factor him as a top 10 as well.

  170. ToledoFan 5 years ago

    the heck does it matter what Martinez’s stats as a 1b are? The tigers have Cabrera and he is better than every first baseman except a handfull, and even then, those 4 or 5 guys are pretty even.

  171. moonraker45 5 years ago

    you said it yourself. IF strasburgs health returns his is a #1 talent IF

    Thats a huge IF, no one knows how his arm will be after surgery, some pitchers have had nice careers after, and some have flopped like a fat kid in a pool.

  172. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I agree. I’m sure there are parts of Haiti that are beautiful and as lovely as place in Paris. As long as the wealthies 2% of a population have money to spend they’ll manage to find suitable accomadations that fit their standard of living. The crime in Detroit won’t effect them as long as they live in gated communities 40 mintues outside of downtown and drive to “work” in their luxury cars.

  173. MaineSox 5 years ago

    Except Papi is only the DH for this year and Victor would be mediocre at best at DH and would be way over priced.

  174. Hannibal_Lester 5 years ago

    you aren’t taking into account that the Sox were #2 in offense last year while most of their good offensive players sat out extended portions of the season. A full year with Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, and one of Werth/Crawford, should easily replace V-Mart’s production along with all the castoffs they started most of last year.

  175. PJaysW 5 years ago

    to be fair, i called you out for making ridiculous claims, which moonraker has since put to rest. just because their are other sox fans falsely validating your points, it doesn’t make them right.

  176. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    Obsessions, whoever said you were an unreasonable Red Sox fan was obviously wrong. Oh wait…was that me who was saying that?Just kidding. You summed up what moonraker was saying.

  177. dskirsa 5 years ago

    By definition, I have the potential to get a minor league contract if I work at it, but evidence shows it isn’t very likely. Similarly, Salty has the potential to be every bit as good as Martinez, but evidence shows it isn’t very likely.

  178. flickadave 5 years ago

    Chevy Chase has made a TON of $$$ acting…. just sayin’

  179. snapcase8p 5 years ago

    I disagree in this instance. While a lot of guys get 100 rbi. VMart does it in a lot less ab’s. So his RBI total tells you at what a high percentage he hits with risp. As opposed to Dunn who hits 46Hr and only drives in 102. Tells you what a horrible RISP he is.

  180. flickadave 5 years ago

    They might have him on the roster but they certainly won’t be giving him a 3 year $37.5 million contract which is what VMart will have left.

  181. flickadave 5 years ago

    I believe that there will also be baseball played in 2012 and beyond. If the Sox fill all their holes with cheap alternatives for 2011 it’s going to be scary to see what they do in 2012.

  182. flickadave 5 years ago

    So if the top 10 are considered “good” and the middle 10 are considered “mediocre” and the bottom 10 are considered “bad” where does that put VMart as a 1 baseman?

  183. dskirsa 5 years ago

    You received an absurd comment because you made an absurd statement without backing it up.

    Yes. Salty was considered a top prospect 3 or 4 years ago, but he hasn’t made the leap. Apart from his age and the fact that he was “once considered a top prospect” you haven’t provided anything to indicate that “he has the potential to be every bit as good as Martinez.” Take a look at the numbers. Do some comparison. It isn’t 2007 anymore. There is clearly some skepticism that he can be an everyday catcher. He lost the job in Texas to Laird which, after watching Laird in Detroit, speaks volumes. While becoming a breakout catcher next year certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibilities, based on his past and recent performance, it certainly isn’t likely. What leads you to believe he has this potential?

  184. snapcase8p 5 years ago

    So based on your theory of BA means nothing I suppose Ichiro with his .359 OBP, .394 SLG, and his .754 is a worthless player then?

  185. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    I think that’s a very dull way of looking at it. There can be more good options than mediocre ones, more bad than mediocre, ect. The Tigers are clearly getting a better than mediocre hitter and player, regardless of what position he plays and it annoys me when Boston fans try to discredit VMart just because they didn’t resign him.

  186. Ferrariman 5 years ago

    where the hell did he say BA means nothing? stop trying to imply false statements. He was simply pointing out that Blackcourt ONLY using batting average to measure production was not accurate, which it isn’t.

  187. flickadave 5 years ago

    Dull or exciting, if he isn’t catching he isn’t a top tier player. That having been said, VMart is still a very good player. Just because I try to look at things objectively doesn’t mean I am putting him down. I just think spending $12.5 million for a DH or middle tier first baseman isn’t necessarily the smartest move.

  188. woadude 5 years ago

    So, when he isnt the catcher, he will play 1st base for the Tigers….then where will Cabrera play?

  189. bustersposey 5 years ago

    porcello was ranked 4th overall by ba before the ’07 draft. casey kelly was ranked 19th in ’08, westmoreland was ranked 113 in ’08, anthony ranaudo was ranked 26 in 2010.

  190. baseballdude 5 years ago

    DH

  191. baseballdude 5 years ago

    DH

  192. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I don’t know. I was refering to the Red Sox situation not the Tigers. My guess is that he will C and when he can’t do that maybe he pushes Miggs to DH?

  193. tiger313 5 years ago

    Salty stayed in the minor leagues cause he couldnt throw the ball back to the pitching mound. Just saying.

  194. tiger313 5 years ago

    Salty stayed in the minor leagues cause he couldnt throw the ball back to the pitching mound. Just saying.

  195. Drew and Papi off the books for 2012. Sox will probably make a bigger Splash next year.

  196. Drew and Papi off the books for 2012. Sox will probably make a bigger Splash next year.

  197. MaineSox 5 years ago

    While I understand your point about them not signing players outside of the top 5 because of signability concerns, particularly now with some of the teams who tend to get the top 5 pick spending more money on the draft, I have to say that Ranaudo did have the talent of a legitimate top 5 pick and fell because there were concerns over his elbow but before the elbow became an issue he was pretty much a consensus top 5 pick. The talent of a top 5 pick was still there so I would argue that in that one instance they did sign a legitimate top 5 outside of the top 5.

    link to mlbtraderumors.com

  198. moonraker45 5 years ago

    britney spears has made a ton of money singing.. doesn’t mean she has a good voice

  199. flickadave 5 years ago

    Dylan doesn’t have a great voice either but he sure knows how to sing. Just because you might not care for the way someone acts or sings doesn’t mean they can’t be good. It just seems like you were picking a fight with blackcourt on everything he/she said. To say that using BA to judge a catcher is wrong is, in my opinion, short sighted. If a catcher has a .065 BA I surely wouldn’t want him on my team. When you have lived thru Craig Grabek (I know he wasn’t a C but still) and the tail end of Tony Pena, you never want to go back there…

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